Referees we've known and loved?

[superfurryhibby]

The thread on Willie Collum got me thinking, has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have acknowledged as being of a decent standard?

As a boy a certain Bobby Davidson was the main man and I recall that he officiated at a World Cup and possibly a European Cup final. It's fair to say that he could never have been described as being a respected figure down ER way, particularly when we played Rangers.

The other red that stands out is Brian McGinlay, he seemed to be around forever during the 80's and 90's. Without checking, I'm pretty sure he had a fair bit of recognition at international level, yet was never see as a figure of respect in our game ( was he the guy subject to the private investigators commissioned by some paranoid Celtic fans?).

Just wondering, but has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have recognised as being good at their job?

Ahem, just remembered, Hugh Dallas.......

[Bobo]

The thread on Willie Collum got me thinking, has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have acknowledged as being of a decent standard?

As a boy a certain Bobby Davidson was the main man and I recall that he officiated at a World Cup and possibly a European Cup final. It's fair to say that he could never have been described as being a respected figure down ER way, particularly when we played Rangers.

The other red that stands out is Brian McGinlay, he seemed to be around forever during the 80's and 90's. Without checking, I'm pretty sure he had a fair bit of recognition at international level, yet was never see as a figure of respect in our game ( was he the guy subject to the private investigators commissioned by some paranoid Celtic fans?).

Just wondering, but has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have recognised as being good at their job?

Ahem, just remembered, Hugh Dallas.......

J P R Gordon from Newport on Tay wasn't too bad a whistler 😉

[deekster]

🎵 We all agree that Valentine s##gs McGinlay 🎵

[Forza Fred]

Tiny Wharton was a character at least

[Sergey]

The Maltese ones did OK - bring them back for the crucial matches!

[oneone73]

Tiny Wharton was a character at least



Of a much more recent vintage, I always thought John Underhill was decent.

[erin go bragh]

/Pierluigi_Collina ! Ok he didn't officiate in Scotland but was a brilliant ref .

GGTTH

[SausageSurprise]

Dougie McDonald was one of the better efforts

[superfurryhibby]

Of a much more recent vintage, I always thought John Underhill was decent.

The Scottish Collina?

To be fair to them, it must be a bloody hard job. Maybe harder now than it's ever been with the degree of scrutiny and number of cameras at games?

The attitude of players too. Can't help thinking they cheat more than ever before and the rules around tackles and the physical aspect just add to the mix.

[overdrive]

The Scottish Collina?


You're thinking of John Rowbotham.

John Underhill was English which I think is partly what made him quite good compared to the rest... No local allegiance.

[Forza Fred]

George Smith......one of our own!

[Smartie]

I always liked Willie Young.

At least he used to let the game flow and he was consistent. I can't stand these overly-fussy clowns who want be centre of attention, pull free-kicks back 2 yards to be retaken, book folk for celebrating then turn a blind eye to the leg-breaking tackles that inevitably come once they've lost control of the game and the respect of the players.

Kenny Clark was the opposite to Young but was ok actually. He was fussy but I remember him generally being consistent and being equally fussy with both teams.

[Bostonhibby]

The thread on Willie Collum got me thinking, has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have acknowledged as being of a decent standard?

As a boy a certain Bobby Davidson was the main man and I recall that he officiated at a World Cup and possibly a European Cup final. It's fair to say that he could never have been described as being a respected figure down ER way, particularly when we played Rangers.

The other red that stands out is Brian McGinlay, he seemed to be around forever during the 80's and 90's. Without checking, I'm pretty sure he had a fair bit of recognition at international level, yet was never see as a figure of respect in our game ( was he the guy subject to the private investigators commissioned by some paranoid Celtic fans?).

Just wondering, but has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have recognised as being good at their job?

Ahem, just remembered, Hugh Dallas.......

Thread of the year? And just before the years out!:greengrin All the now defunct Glasgow rangers legends in one post!

All I can add to this one is Tiny Wharton, another FIFA recognised official.

Here he is.


15764

[oneone73]

You're thinking of John Rowbotham.

John Underhill was English which I think is partly what made him quite good compared to the rest... No local allegiance.

Correct.

[superfurryhibby]

Thread of the year? And just before the years out!:greengrin All the now defunct Glasgow rangers legends in one post!

All I can add to this one is Tiny Wharton, another FIFA recognised official.

Here he is.


15764

That's a photo to toy with. Surely that can't really be a Masonic handshake? Any of our resident lodge types confirm this?

For some reason I also thought about a ref who did some of our primary school matches, back in the early seventies. Big bloke, bald and none too thin. Liked whistling a lot and once took a clearance straight to the nads on a cold winter's day with the old mitre mould master. Think he nearly swallowed his whistle!

Enjoying conjuring with these names from our refereeing past, an officiating hall of infamy, with a few exceptions.

[Bostonhibby]

That's a photo to toy with. Surely that can't really be a Masonic handshake? Any of our resident lodge types confirm this?

For some reason I also thought about a ref who did some of our primary school matches, back in the early seventies. Big bloke, bald and none too thin. Liked whistling a lot and once took a clearance straight to the nads on a cold winter's day with the old mitre mould master. Think he nearly swallowed his whistle!

Enjoying conjuring with these names from our refereeing past, an officiating hall of infamy, with a few exceptions.

The picture of Tiny and Greig has been doing the rounds for such a long time, nae idea about the handshake but their obvious delight at seeing, and touching, each other sums up how I remember the relationship between the now defunct Glasgow rangers and referees when I was following my team in those days.

For pure outright masonry / hunnery you need look no further than Brian McGinlay who was on their club circuit as a speaker for quite some time, allegedly.

[Jonnyboy]

The thread on Willie Collum got me thinking, has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have acknowledged as being of a decent standard?

As a boy a certain Bobby Davidson was the main man and I recall that he officiated at a World Cup and possibly a European Cup final. It's fair to say that he could never have been described as being a respected figure down ER way, particularly when we played Rangers.

The other red that stands out is Brian McGinlay, he seemed to be around forever during the 80's and 90's. Without checking, I'm pretty sure he had a fair bit of recognition at international level, yet was never see as a figure of respect in our game ( was he the guy subject to the private investigators commissioned by some paranoid Celtic fans?).

Just wondering, but has there ever been a Scottish ref that fans have recognised as being good at their job?

Ahem, just remembered, Hugh Dallas.......

Can't wait to read Doddie's response to this one :greengrin

Another name from the past ........ Bill Mullen, who came from Dalkeith IIRC

Of the current referees, I'd say Bobby Madden is the best

[Bostonhibby]

Can't wait to read Doddie's response to this one :greengrin

Another name from the past ........ Bill Mullen, who came from Dalkeith IIRC

Of the current referees, I'd say Bobby Madden is the best

:agree: Bobby Davidson, how many games did he cost us(?) was he the one who denied us the penalty in the 1979 cup final? Alleged allegiance to the now defunct original Airdrieoninans but a hun is a hun by any name, We used to give him plenty stick from the terraces but he really didn't care.

[JimBHibees]

:agree: Bobby Davidson, how many games did he cost us(?) was he the one who denied us the penalty in the 1979 cup final? Alleged allegiance to the now defunct original Airdrieoninans but a hun is a hun by any name, We used to give him plenty stick from the terraces but he really didn't care.

1979 cup final ref was McGinlay appalling decision which could genuinely have killed our appalling up record stone dead.

[Bostonhibby]

1979 cup final ref was McGinlay appalling decision which could genuinely have killed our appalling up record stone dead.
Knew it was one of them, thanks.[emoji106]

[JJP]

I usually thought Calum Murray was decent.

[JimBHibees]

Knew it was one of them, thanks.[emoji106]

Anyone remember the game we actually won at Ibrox to get to the League cup final. We had won the first leage 2-0 and then lost an early goal to a Davie Cooper cracker, McGinlay gave them soft foul after soft foul around the edge of the box, fortunately no pen.

[JimBHibees]

I usually thought Calum Murray was decent.

Agree one of the better ones who seemed to bizarrely take a back seat to guys like Collum/Thompson in the last few years.

Bobby Madden is probably the best of the current crop IMO.

[erin go bragh]

Anyone remember the game we actually won at Ibrox to get to the League cup final. We had won the first leage 2-0 and then lost an early goal to a Davie Cooper cracker, McGinlay gave them soft foul after soft foul around the edge of the box, fortunately no pen.

Yes Jim . Remember it well , we lost 1-0 but won the tie 2-1 . Castle Greyskull was rocking that night ( well in the Hibs end ) It's my best Hibs defeat I've ever been at :)

GGTTH

[snooky]

/Pierluigi_Collina ! Ok he didn't officiate in Scotland but was a brilliant ref .

GGTTH

Underhill & Collina are the same guy.
(For those who've seen JU as an after-dinner speaker).

McGinley was a out and out bluenose &, like many of his ilk, took that fact onto the field.
TBH, I can't think of one ref apart from Collina that I thought was quality though Tiny Wharton was a character, I admit that.
Charlie Richmond is right up there as the second worst however, the worst ref of all time is he who has proved himself a cheat many times. I don't need to mention his name. You already know it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Underhill & Collina are the same guy.
(For those who've seen JU as an after-dinner speaker).

McGinley was a out and out bluenose &, like many of his ilk, took that fact onto the field.
TBH, I can't think of one ref apart from Collina that I thought was quality though Tiny Wharton was a character, I admit that.
Charlie Richmond is right up there as the second worst however, the worst ref of all time is he who has proved himself a cheat many times. I don't need to mention his name. You already know it.

Rowbotham :greengrin

[James70]

Louis Thow? No, sorry, maybe not. Gave one of the most biased refereeing performances I have ever witnessed at ER.

[--------]

J P R Gordon from Newport on Tay wasn't too bad a whistler 


Didn't Gordon get into trouble for accepting pressies from one of the big Italian clubs when he went to referee them in the European Cup?

Never trusted him.

Davidson was a crook - blatantly biassed towards Rangers and never slow to give them a panalty or allow an offside goal. Became chairman of Airdrieonians IIRC? One of the Rangers' satellite clubs, anyway.

I remember Eddie Thomson, an Edinburgh man who regularly refereed at the highest level. Him I had respect for.

And there was a guy from Dalkeith - a tall, dark-haired chap. Bill Mullen? Liked him.

[Eyrie]

Gerry Evans had one outstanding game (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12027051.SFA_ready__to_tackle_Hearts_on_red_cards_ Farry_talks_of__special_review_apos__after_the_Ibr ox_sendings_off/).

[O'Rourke3]

/Pierluigi_Collina ! Ok he didn't officiate in Scotland but was a brilliant ref .

GGTTH
Collina reffed Scotland twice and twice had howlers. He looked like the poster boy from The Hills Have Eyes. Certainly had the moves but Worlds best ref rep built up by FIFA and UEFA. Now theres a couple of names we can all trust.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

[Jonnyboy]

Didn't Gordon get into trouble for accepting pressies from one of the big Italian clubs when he went to referee them in the European Cup?

Never trusted him.

Davidson was a crook - blatantly biassed towards Rangers and never slow to give them a panalty or allow an offside goal. Became chairman of Airdrieonians IIRC? One of the Rangers' satellite clubs, anyway.

I remember Eddie Thomson, an Edinburgh man who regularly refereed at the highest level. Him I had respect for.

And there was a guy from Dalkeith - a tall, dark-haired chap. Bill Mullen? Liked him.

I just knew your views on Davidson were worth waiting on

[heidtheba]

There's a job I'd hate - so much scrutiny and such little time to make decisions. Can't think of many 'excellent' referees but this thread did remind me of two I used to hate watching for us when I had STs back in the mid90s...Les Mottram and Davie Syme (I think). Ufft.

[Bobo]

Didn't Gordon get into trouble for accepting pressies from one of the big Italian clubs when he went to referee them in the European Cup?

Never trusted him.

To be honest, I don't remember that much about him but he did have at least one notable appearance down Gorgie way, so that's good enough for me :flag:

[superfurryhibby]

There's a job I'd hate - so much scrutiny and such little time to make decisions. Can't think of many 'excellent' referees but this thread did remind me of two I used to hate watching for us when I had STs back in the mid90s...Les Mottram and Davie Syme (I think). Ufft.

Incredibly, Les Mottram referred in the J-League fior several seasons before retiring. Can't be many Scottish ref's to have officiated there!

[snooky]

Rowbotham :greengrin

Duh me! :doh:

[--------]

To be honest, I don't remember that much about him but he did have at least one notable appearance down Gorgie way, so that's good enough for me :flag:


He wasn't by any means the worst, and certainly not a Hun-lover, so I suppose we can forgive any of his other wee failings ...

Another real reptile was one A J Crawley (Glasgow) whom I remember from the 1960's as almost worse than Davidson. One particular game against Aberdeen at ER springs to mind - an arrogant wee tick. Reminded me of one or two of my more repulsive school-masters.

[Personally, I find it's not a lot of fun remembering "decent" referees- I'd much rather excoriate (woo!) the bad guys.]

[--------]

I just knew your views on Davidson were worth waiting on


Well, can you remember a single match against Rangers that we won? Or even got fair dealings? I can't.

[Ringothedog]

That's a photo to toy with. Surely that can't really be a Masonic handshake? Any of our resident lodge types confirm this?

For some reason I also thought about a ref who did some of our primary school matches, back in the early seventies. Big bloke, bald and none too thin. Liked whistling a lot and once took a clearance straight to the nads on a cold winter's day with the old mitre mould master. Think he nearly swallowed his whistle!

Enjoying conjuring with these names from our refereeing past, an officiating hall of infamy, with a few exceptions.

Tiny Wharton was a member of lodge 147 St John's in Rutherglen.

[Forza Fred]

I remember Davidson, or Scarface as we juveniley called him due to his birthmark covering part of his face.

I thought he hated us for some reason and he twisted the knife whenever he could against him.

Slightly off topic...but I think I am correct in saying that the original scheduled ref for the 7-0 game, called off prior to the game, and had to be replaced.

[kaimendhibs]

Davidson and Mcginley were shockers

[AndyM_1875]

Hugh Dallas was always the Ref I wanted in an Edinburgh Derby.

He took absolutely no nonsense from the maroon plums and basically refereed via the laws of the game. Kick someone you got booked, no wink & nod nonsense. Do it again and you were off. Some of the thugs who played for Hearts in my early football watching years like Neil Berry or Sandy Clark would have lasted about 10 minutes under him.

Not saying he was brilliant or anything, just that he was fair in Derbies.

[Jonnyboy]

Well, can you remember a single match against Rangers that we won? Or even got fair dealings? I can't.

Nope, you are right Doddie. Davidson was the worst of a bad bunch

[JimBHibees]

Nope, you are right Doddie. Davidson was the worst of a bad bunch

I can remember a game at Ibrox where it was 0-0 and Tommy McLean I am sure it was scored from without a word of a lie a position 5 yards offside and both Sloop and Paddy were then sent off by Davidson so blatant was the offside decision.

[--------]

That's a photo to toy with. Surely that can't really be a Masonic handshake? Any of our resident lodge types confirm this?

For some reason I also thought about a ref who did some of our primary school matches, back in the early seventies. Big bloke, bald and none too thin. Liked whistling a lot and once took a clearance straight to the nads on a cold winter's day with the old mitre mould master. Think he nearly swallowed his whistl
Enjoying conjuring with these names from our refereeing past, an officiating hall of infamy, with a few exceptions.


I can assure you that THAT, my friend, is a masonic handshake.

The $64.000 question of course, is, did the fact that Wharton was a Freemason make a difference to the way he refereed matches?

FWIW my recollection is that he wasn't too bad to us - I mean, we always complain about the ref when we lose the game? I didn't mind Tiny refereeing us - there were a lot worse.

Thinking of refereeing reptiles - Ian Brines, anyone? Broke the mould, that one - HE favoured Celtc and gave us nothing, ever. Remember a 2-1 defeat at the Cesspit where he should have got their MotM award.

[Puddocky]

ISTR a report of Willie Young making an after-dinner speech on his retirement where he said "If you think I'm bad, wait till you see what's coming after me". He wasn't wrong...

[AndyM_1875]

I can assure you that THAT, my friend, is a masonic handshake.

The $64.000 question of course, is, did the fact that Wharton was a Freemason make a difference to the way he refereed matches?

FWIW my recollection is that he wasn't too bad to us - I mean, we always complain about the ref when we lose the game? I didn't mind Tiny refereeing us - there were a lot worse.


Doubt it made any difference.

Useless fact - A relative of mine who is "on the level" explained to me that John Greig did not become a Freemason until the mid 1980s at an Edinburgh Lodge, long after he had left Rangers as both manager and player.

[snooky]

I can assure you that THAT, my friend, is a masonic handshake.

The $64.000 question of course, is, did the fact that Wharton was a Freemason make a difference to the way he refereed matches?

FWIW my recollection is that he wasn't too bad to us - I mean, we always complain about the ref when we lose the game? I didn't mind Tiny refereeing us - there were a lot worse.

Thinking of refereeing reptiles - Ian Brines, anyone? Broke the mould, that one - HE favoured Celtc and gave us nothing, ever. Remember a 2-1 defeat at the Cesspit where he should have got their MotM award.

I remember when that photo first came out there was a rumour that it had been 'photoshopped'.

Mind you, they could have meant Tiny's apron had been photoshopped out. :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

I remember when that photo first came out there was a rumour that it had been 'photoshopped'.

Mind you, they could have meant Tiny's apron had been photoshopped out. :wink:

No idea about its authenticity but I think it pre dates the photshop era, I got it from a guy I used to work with when he sent me a Rangers video and an E-Birthday card with that image on it as a wind up! It was my 40th birthday, he gave me the image when I asked and I've stored it ever since!

You don't have to be a mason for one of their gang to do the handshake to you - Ive worked in Northern Ireland so had the experience!

[--------]

Doubt it made any difference.

Useless fact - A relative of mine who is "on the level" explained to me that John Greig did not become a Freemason until the mid 1980s at an Edinburgh Lodge, long after he had left Rangers as both manager and player.


Exactly.

Couldn't tell that to the Greatest Fans in the World, though. Wharton was a good referee.

[superfurryhibby]

No idea about its authenticity but I think it pre dates the photshop era, I got it from a guy I used to work with when he sent me a Rangers video and an E-Birthday card with that image on it as a wind up! It was my 40th birthday, he gave me the image when I asked and I've stored it ever since!

You don't have to be a mason for one of their gang to do the handshake to you - Ive worked in Northern Ireland so had the experience!

Ahem, I worked in West Lothian and experienced it a few time over my seven years out in the badlands.

[emerald green]

I can't remember who the referee was for the game in which John McDonald of Rangers performed the most ridiculous and blatant dive in the Hibs box to get a penalty. The referee who awarded that penalty kick was a disgrace, as was the cheat McDonald.