Forth bridge closed until new year

[MB62]

I know this is not football related but probably very important to a lot of people using the site.

It has just been confirmed that the Forth Road Bridge will be closed until THE NEW YEAR.

This might impact on both the tandems that Raith Rovers might bring over on the 2nd Jan and possible even our cup trip the following week, depending on just how long this goes on for.

[Salt N Sauzee]

How long until the other bridge is finished?

[Jim44]

How long until the other bridge is finished?

Middle of next year, I think.

[seanshow]

Feed the fifers let them know its xmas time,



Kincardine northbound now closes also

[h185forever]

Due to open Dec next year

[Peevemor]

Feed the fifers let them know its xmas time,



Kincardine northbound now closes also

Latest images arriving from S. Queensferry

15727

[Since90+2]

How much longer does it take going via the Kincardine as opposed to the Fourth?

[Billy Whizz]

How much longer does it take going via the Kincardine as opposed to the Fourth?

If you're heading upto Dundee/Aberdeen, you can always go up via Perth

[alnewhaven]

How much longer does it take going via the Kincardine as opposed to the Fourth?

Left at 5:20 this morning, and got to Leven at 6:45, normally takes me an hour albeit later.

[SHODAN]

If you're heading upto Dundee/Aberdeen, you can always go up via Perth

Don't tell them that, I want the roads to be clear when I head back up there for Christmas. :grr:

[Thecat23]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Now being reported as "January" - that won't be 1/1 or even 2/1.

In standard workie style they'll all be standing round the loose bolt looking at it, the rest will be in the van reading the Sun. If it's not too cold for them to be outside that is.

I reckon we're looking at an April re-opening.

[Danderhall Hibs]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

I thought that as well - I guess it must've been due to cost though?

[Moulin Yarns]

If you're heading upto Dundee/Aberdeen, you can always go up via Perth


I did that on Wednesday, it was about half an hour longer, but that was before the bridge was closed.

[MB62]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

:agree:

[Lucius Apuleius]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

Unless of course it got flooded. :greengrin

[CallumLaidlaw]

Now being reported as "January" - that won't be 1/1 or even 2/1.

In standard workie style they'll all be standing round the loose bolt looking at it, the rest will be in the van reading the Sun. If it's not too cold for them to be outside that is.

I reckon we're looking at an April re-opening.

The minister said they plan to have it open for people going back to work in January. We'll see....

I am now planning on going via Stirling to get to Greenock tomorrow, as I imagine Kincardine will be mobbed. I also may now need to sack off the Falkirk game due to my works christmas party starting at 7, and if I was driving, I'm normally home for 5.45pm. No chance of that unless I leave the match 20 minutes early, then get the 5.10 train back to fife - which is also likely to be heaving.

[Thecat23]

I thought that as well - I guess it must've been due to cost though?

Yeah maybe was to expensive, but they seemed happy to blow millions on a tram system that isn't needed and wasn't wanted by most of the people who live in the city.

Be a long journey home for many folk tonight!

[Thecat23]

Unless of course it got flooded. :greengrin

😁 Always one!

[The_Exile]

How much will the repairs to the current bridge cost? If the new one is opening next year it might not even be worth spending cash on the current bridge only for it to be closed permanently a couple of months later.

[MoscowHibs]

The minister said they plan to have it open for people going back to work in January. We'll see....

I am now planning on going via Stirling to get to Greenock tomorrow, as I imagine Kincardine will be mobbed. I also may now need to sack off the Falkirk game due to my works christmas party starting at 7, and if I was driving, I'm normally home for 5.45pm. No chance of that unless I leave the match 20 minutes early, then get the 5.10 train back to fife - which is also likely to be heaving.

I will gie ye a lift tae Leith docks, just nick a boat and you will get hame in plenty time. Sorted.

[Sergey]

I thought that as well - I guess it must've been due to cost though?


Yeah maybe was to expensive, but they seemed happy to blow millions on a tram system that isn't needed and wasn't wanted by most of the people who live in the city.

Be a long journey home for many folk tonight!

According to the Forth Tunnel Action Group, a tunnel would have cost £0.56 Bn per km compared to £1.26 Bn per km for the bridge.

[Brightside]

How much will the repairs to the current bridge cost? If the new one is opening next year it might not even be worth spending cash on the current bridge only for it to be closed permanently a couple of months later.

?? Its not closing permanently though! All buses and lorries will continue on the old bridge.

[Thecat23]

According to the Forth Tunnel Action Group, a tunnel would have cost £0.56 Bn per km compared to £1.26 Bn per km for the bridge.

Really? So some idiot approved a second road bridge when a tunnel would have been cheaper and will not shut due to weather conditions!

[superfurryhibby]

Yeah maybe was to expensive, but they seemed happy to blow millions on a tram system that isn't needed and wasn't wanted by most of the people who live in the city.

Be a long journey home for many folk tonight!

In the interests of pedantry, it should be highlighted that the City of Edinburgh Cooncil were responsible for the trams fiasco, not the Scottish Grooverment.

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/fd4ecba7927f518695933c857847ff73.jpg

[Gatecrasher]

In the interests of pedantry, it should be highlighted that the City of Edinburgh Cooncil were responsible for the trams fiasco, not the Scottish Grooverment.
Groovy man :partyhibb

[Stuarty27]

I studied civil engineering at uni and one of projects was reviewing the two options.

The tunnel may be of been cheaper but due to the strength of the rock in lothians, it would actually be physically impossible to bore a hole through. Too many unknowns that is why the bridge is a better option.

[Biggie]

How much will the repairs to the current bridge cost? If the new one is opening next year it might not even be worth spending cash on the current bridge only for it to be closed permanently a couple of months later.
I think if your a fifer, you'd want them to spend whatever it takes to get it sorted...and fast.
Can you imagine in 21st century Britain we had a single point of failure of this magnitude.....poor sods living in Fife must be well pissed off.

[greenlex]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/fd4ecba7927f518695933c857847ff73.jpg
FFS a bit of superglue and tape would fix that. No more than ten minutes and that's allowing for a bit iof weather hassle with the tape.

[Lucius Apuleius]

 Always one!

:greengrin coolest tunnel I have been through is Tokyo Bay. half bridge, half tunnel. really cool. :greengrin

[Thecat23]

:greengrin coolest tunnel I have been through is Tokyo Bay. half bridge, half tunnel. really cool. :greengrin

That does sound pretty cool. I'd have settled for that here :)

[The_Exile]

I think if your a fifer, you'd want them to spend whatever it takes to get it sorted...and fast.
Can you imagine in 21st century Britain we had a single point of failure of this magnitude.....poor sods living in Fife must be well pissed off.


Aye but if it keeps the fifers in the kingdom until the new year........................................ :greengrin

[Kojock]

FFS a bit of superglue and tape would fix that. No more than ten minutes and that's allowing for a bit iof weather hassle with the tape.

I was thinking along the same lines, fill it with expanding foam, paint it grey and nobody would be any the wiser.

[greenginger]

Don't let Warby and Co. know , they might bring the team bus that way on Saturday heading for Kirkcaldy and miss the KO. :greengrin

[green glory]

Yeah maybe was to expensive, but they seemed happy to blow millions on a tram system that isn't needed and wasn't wanted by most of the people who live in the city. Be a long journey home for many folk tonight!

It was Labour and the Lib Dems who were happy to do that as the SNP councillors voted against it.

[Moulin Yarns]

FFS a bit of superglue and tape would fix that. No more than ten minutes and that's allowing for a bit iof weather hassle with the tape.

evostik will sort it.:wink:

[Thecat23]

Asking folk to drive all the way to Kincardine to cross is just a bridge too far!!!


I'll get my coat.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/forth-bridge-pissed-20151204104487 :greengrin

[SausageSurprise]

As Ronald McDonald would say "...I'm Lovin' It"

[hibees 7062]

I was thinking along the same lines, fill it with expanding foam, paint it grey and nobody would be any the wiser.

http://www.calculatedtraveller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Duct-tape.jpg

[TheFamous1875]

Something that would be good but would never happen in a millions years is if they re-opened Easter Road train station just under the bridge at the corner of Albion Road. Lots of supporters buses congregate there and since they can't go over the road bridge, they could get lots of fans to and from Easter Road directly with a sort of shuttle service.

I don't even think they have platforms or anything like what they would need to get fans to and from grounds (train line goes right past Stark's Park) but doing this would rapidly decrease the time it takes to get there and back and decrease the traffic for everyone else.

[GreenPJ]

Anyone with a spare hovercraft I can borrow for a short term business venture.

[kaimendhibs]

Anyone with a spare hovercraft I can borrow for a short term business venture.

Beat me too it😂

[Geo_1875]

According to the Forth Tunnel Action Group, a tunnel would have cost £0.56 Bn per km compared to £1.26 Bn per km for the bridge.

But the tunnel would need to be considerably longer than a bridge to keep it safely driveable. Unless you could handle 3:1 inclines at either end.

[Jack]

How long until the other bridge is finished?

December next year, depending on the weather. Obviously they have factored bad weather days into the completion date and so far it's been reasonably accurate. A sustained period of bad weather would affect the opening date though.


This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

The new bridge has been designed so that only in very extreme, even more very extreme than Scottish very extreme weather conditions will the bridge need to close for bad weather.


According to the Forth Tunnel Action Group, a tunnel would have cost £0.56 Bn per km compared to £1.26 Bn per km for the bridge.

The current cost of the new bridge is £1.4bn - £1.45bn so unless the new bridge is only going half way ;-) ...

Having said that the original cost of the new bridge was, IIRC, in the region of £4.2bn. That was for an all singing all dancing 6 lane bridge with hard shoulders, again IIRC, space for a tram and pedestrian access. The replacement bridge obviously doesn't have all this. It was also based on conventional UK Government contracting. The Scottish Government ditched that for some international type of costing contracts as huge as this one. Part of keeping building costs under control was the Scottish Government took the hit for inflation, luckily for them that has been very low during the period of the construction.

In line with UK rules of replacement roads the bridge could only ever be 2 lane although I think the Scottish Government have sneaked in hard shoulders.


?? Its not closing permanently though! All buses and lorries will continue on the old bridge.

The current bridge will become a public transport corridor, buses and taxis, only.

The Forth Replacement Crossing is, currently, on time and on budget.

[snooky]

Something that the authorities seem to be ignoring is the heavy congestion on the diversion routes.
Can something not be done along these routes to keep the traffic flowing.
i.e. the old fashioned cop on points duty instead of traffic lights and at roundabouts at peak times to keep the traffic flowing.
Where there is congestion at a convergence we should all try to adhere to 1 and 1 filtering system although there's always the smarta$$ who thinks it should be 2 and 1 when it's to his advantage (Pet Peeve IV - no. 856 :wink:).

[dangermouse]

Something that would be good but would never happen in a millions years is if they re-opened Easter Road train station just under the bridge at the corner of Albion Road. Lots of supporters buses congregate there and since they can't go over the road bridge, they could get lots of fans to and from Easter Road directly with a sort of shuttle service.

I don't even think they have platforms or anything like what they would need to get fans to and from grounds (train line goes right past Stark's Park) but doing this would rapidly decrease the time it takes to get there and back and decrease the traffic for everyone else.

I'm not 100% certain, but old photos I've seen and read about suggest the Easter Road Station was at the back of the East Stand.

They are managing to build a station at Gogar so why not Easter Road as once we get back into the premireship and then obviously the Champions League we will need a better transport infrastructure around the stadium to cope with the crowd sizes. May need the helipad constructed as well :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

Easter Road station was just under the bridge at corner of albion road/Easter Road


http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t/0_edinburgh_transport_railways_dy_easter_road_sign al_box.jpg


and while looking for pic came across nice pic of Easter Road

http://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/gallery/easterroadpast/easterroadpast1.jpg


by jings was it cauld up the top of the old extended East

[jodjam]

If still closed for cup game here is another option :wink:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2014/apr/30/scotland-firthofforth-coal

[Billy Whizz]

What what the cost to the Fife, wider economy this will cost, although safety comes first!

[silverhibee]

Yeah maybe was to expensive, but they seemed happy to blow millions on a tram system that isn't needed and wasn't wanted by most of the people who live in the city.

Be a long journey home for many folk tonight!

The new bridge is designed so that it will never close due to high winds, don't ask me how, and it will never flood, :greengrin

Just home, the M9 is just soul destroying. :greengrin

[GordonHFC]

Anyone with a spare hovercraft I can borrow for a short term business venture.

From what I have heard today it's not going to be so short. Talking months rather than weeks.

[dalkeith stu]

I think if your a fifer, you'd want them to spend whatever it takes to get it sorted...and fast.
Can you imagine in 21st century Britain we had a single point of failure of this magnitude.....poor sods living in Fife must be well pissed off.
They weren't pissed off last week with their cheaper houses!!!

[Thecat23]

The new bridge is designed so that it will never close due to high winds, don't ask me how, and it will never flood, :greengrin

Just home, the M9 is just soul destroying. :greengrin

I can just imagine how bad it is. If it's any consolation I've been in my shorts and t-shirt all day in the warmth of my living room eating choc chip cookies and Chip sticks! 😄

I may venture up stairs at some point though so wish me luck as I think I've left a bedroom window open.

[Ozyhibby]

They weren't pissed off last week with their cheaper houses!!!

[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jonty]

They weren't pissed off last week with their cheaper houses!!!

Amazon warehouse is on this side.

Merry Christmas

:wink:

[Onion]

Now being reported as "January" - that won't be 1/1 or even 2/1.

In standard workie style they'll all be standing round the loose bolt looking at it, the rest will be in the van reading the Sun. If it's not too cold for them to be outside that is.

I reckon we're looking at an April re-opening.

:agree: If they are prepared to go public with "January" you know already it's going to be a lot later than that. April sounds about right.

[MyJo]

The new bridge is designed so that it will never close due to high winds, don't ask me how, and it will never flood, :greengrin

Just home, the M9 is just soul destroying. :greengrin

I believe the design of the bridge includes barriers that will deflect sidewinds in a way that directs it up and away from the traffic on the bridge meaning there should be no need to restrict access or speed due to the high winds like what happens just now.

[heretoday]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

Hear Hear. I told them but did they listen? No, they didn't.

[Hibeesforever]

Easter Road station was just under the bridge at corner of albion road/Easter


and while looking for pic came across nice pic of Easter Road

http://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/gallery/easterroadpast/easterroadpast1.jpg


by jings was it cauld up the top of the old extended East

Great photographs, the station name sign is held at the Boness Railway Museum. My daughter had her picture taken beside it!

[hibsfan7]

Aye but if it keeps the fifers in the kingdom until the new year........................................ :greengrin

you seem to forget a lot of hibs fans my self included live in fie and before you make anymore comments like that just remember we travel aronund 30 plus miles to watch hibs when some of you so called hibs fans who live in edinbugh cannot even walk to easter road when you are only 5 minutes from the ground

rantover

[stoneyburn hibs]

you seem to forget a lot of hibs fans my self included live in fie and before you make anymore comments like that just remember we travel aronund 30 plus miles to watch hibs when some of you so called hibs fans who live in edinbugh cannot even walk to easter road when you are only 5 minutes from the ground

rantover

Just jest mate, fair play to you if you go to ER in coming months.

[jgl07]

In the interests of pedantry, it should be highlighted that the City of Edinburgh Cooncil were responsible for the trams fiasco, not the Scottish Grooverment.
Both were equally culpable if you study the facts.

[Just Jimmy]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/04/ec835b4a5397c2316d5fd2bf87c1ede7.jpg

[Septimus]

Simple repair as used on the first Tay rail bridge is fiddlers rosin mixed with iron filings. Smoothed carefully into the crack and painted over looks as good as new. Get the Great Macgonagall to stand by to write the poem.

[eastcoasthibby]

How much will the repairs to the current bridge cost? If the new one is opening next year it might not even be worth spending cash on the current bridge only for it to be closed permanently a couple of months later.

They need the current bridge til new one opens and even after the new one is open the current bridge is needed to help with congestion...because the traffic crossing either way is a nightmare for at least 6 hours a day !! Think the new bridge is only 2 lanes each way, whereas a 3;laner would have made sense !! But hey why would there be a sensible decision made like that by the Scottish Government ....Think about the trams waste of money and now extending that waste of cash by taking the system down to Ocean Terminal or there abouts .

[Waxy]

Maybe get a house in Rosyth for £2000 now.

[Hibby Bairn]

Maybe get a house in Rosyth for £2000 now.

What? Have they gone up in price? :)

[Calum68]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.

Cracks appearing in a tunnel would be more worrying ;-)

[seanshow]

They need the current bridge til new one opens and even after the new one is open the current bridge is needed to help with congestion...because the traffic crossing either way is a nightmare for at least 6 hours a day !! Think the new bridge is only 2 lanes each way, whereas a 3;laner would have made sense !! But hey why would there be a sensible decision made like that by the Scottish Government ....Think about the trams waste of money and now extending that waste of cash by taking the system down to Ocean Terminal or there abouts .


In the uk, by law they are restricted to 2 lanes in either direction on long suspension bridges apparently, otherwise there would surely have been more lanes.

[southsider]

Something that would be good but would never happen in a millions years is if they re-opened Easter Road train station just under the bridge at the corner of Albion Road. Lots of supporters buses congregate there and since they can't go over the road bridge, they could get lots of fans to and from Easter Road directly with a sort of shuttle service.

I don't even think they have platforms or anything like what they would need to get fans to and from grounds (train line goes right past Stark's Park) but doing this would rapidly decrease the time it takes to get there and back and decrease the traffic for everyone else.
There are stations all over this city, morningside, Newington, slatefotd to name but a few. The late, great Lawrie Reilly got the train from his home in slateford to easter road station on match days.

[Jack]

They need the current bridge til new one opens and even after the new one is open the current bridge is needed to help with congestion...because the traffic crossing either way is a nightmare for at least 6 hours a day !! Think the new bridge is only 2 lanes each way, whereas a 3;laner would have made sense !! But hey why would there be a sensible decision made like that by the Scottish Government ....Think about the trams waste of money and now extending that waste of cash by taking the system down to Ocean Terminal or there abouts .

UK Government guidelines are that replacement roads, the bridge is a replacement road, can't have a bigger capacity than what went before, see my earlier post.

This is about not encouraging people to use cars but use public transport instead.

The design of the new bridge and the new roads around it is such that journey times will be reduced by a few minutes; as I said before the design of the bridge itself should mean it will not be closed because of adverse weather conditions; because it has a hard shoulder any breakdowns or accidents will have a reduced, or no effect, on traffic flow. Also as the old bridge, if it's still standing, will be a public transport corridor meaning taxis and buses will reduce the number of vehicles on the new bridge although personally I can't see that making much difference to the new bridge but it could improve their journey times considerably.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think Cal-Mac always have a spare ferry to cover breakdowns, if that could be put into use between any of the Forth Port Authorities ports in Fife and Edinburgh. Rosyth, Methil, Kirkaldy and Burntisland on the north side and Leith on the south. Only needs to be passengers if shuttle buses are put in place from Leith to the city centre (trams would have been good :wink: ) Burntisland or Kirkcaldy are the best locations I think.

[Beefster]

UK Government guidelines are that replacement roads, the bridge is a replacement road, can't have a bigger capacity than what went before, see my earlier post.

This is about not encouraging people to use cars but use public transport instead.

The design of the new bridge and the new roads around it is such that journey times will be reduced by a few minutes; as I said before the design of the bridge itself should mean it will not be closed because of adverse weather conditions; because it has a hard shoulder any breakdowns or accidents will have a reduced, or no effect, on traffic flow. Also as the old bridge, if it's still standing, will be a public transport corridor meaning taxis and buses will reduce the number of vehicles on the new bridge although personally I can't see that making much difference to the new bridge but it could improve their journey times considerably.

According to this, it is the Scottish Government's decision.

"Will the scheme meet future increased demand for car travel?

Two lanes in each direction are being provided for general traffic on the Queensferry Crossing. The scheme reflects the Scottish Government’s commitment that the Forth Replacement Crossing project will replace, but not increase, the road provision for general traffic across the Firth of Forth. It is not Government policy to provide for unconstrained growth in vehicle traffic and to attempt to do so would be unsustainable."

Source: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/project/forth-replacement-crossing/frc-faqs

[Jack]

According to this, it is the Scottish Government's decision.

"Will the scheme meet future increased demand for car travel?

Two lanes in each direction are being provided for general traffic on the Queensferry Crossing. The scheme reflects the Scottish Government’s commitment that the Forth Replacement Crossing project will replace, but not increase, the road provision for general traffic across the Firth of Forth. It is not Government policy to provide for unconstrained growth in vehicle traffic and to attempt to do so would be unsustainable."

Source: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/project/forth-replacement-crossing/frc-faqs

There are devolved areas where Scotland is still in line with the UK. Not everything the UK did pre devolution was bad!

As far as I am aware this is one of those where Scottish Governments, of all make ups, have had no appetite to change in the face of, what I'd imagine would be stiff opposition from environmental and anti car groups to start with although I'm sure there would be others.

[matty_f]

According to this, it is the Scottish Government's decision.

"Will the scheme meet future increased demand for car travel?

Two lanes in each direction are being provided for general traffic on the Queensferry Crossing. The scheme reflects the Scottish Government’s commitment that the Forth Replacement Crossing project will replace, but not increase, the road provision for general traffic across the Firth of Forth. It is not Government policy to provide for unconstrained growth in vehicle traffic and to attempt to do so would be unsustainable."

Source: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/project/forth-replacement-crossing/frc-faqs

On the face of it, that's a fairly flawed policy. The original Forth Road Bridge was never designed for the volume of traffic it takes, and it struggles to cope when the road is busy.

Increasing the provision to cope with the current demand, let along future proofing it would have made more sense, surely?

That said, maybe they've got some clever engineering in there that will mean similar provisions cope better...

We'll see!

[MyJo]

The new bridge will be two lanes with a hard shoulder and during peak hours they will allow the hard shoulder to be used as a third lane to ease congestion

[Aldo]

For people it matters to. buses and HGV's only on the valleyfield bypass from tomorrow. Cars and LGV's diverted miles away onto the Clackmannanshire bridge. at 5pm tonight the tailback for the Kincardine bridge to Dunfermline started before the Bowtrees roundabout. check the travel scotland website and prepare for travel chaos. good luck

I wonder who is going to POLICE these routes to ensure everyone adheres to the routes?? ;-)

In all seriousness this is an absolute nightmare which will cause more chaos than there already is and will be.

Do they really think anyone is going to remember or adhere to this??

I believe there was a serious accident on one of those roads earlier which caused it to be closed and the traffic diverted onto the others. Crazy

Really stupid decision IMHO.

[silverhibee]

I wonder who is going to POLICE these routes to ensure everyone adheres to the routes?? ;-)

In all seriousness this is an absolute nightmare which will cause more chaos than there already is and will be.

Do they really think anyone is going to remember or adhere to this??

I believe there was a serious accident on one of those roads earlier which caused it to be closed and the traffic diverted onto the others. Crazy

Really stupid decision IMHO.

http://news.stv.tv/east-central/1335043-disruption-expected-as-forth-road-bridge-closure-measures-unveiled/

Chaos tomorrow, lots of pissed off drivers, the biggest worry has to be a couple of minor accidents on these roads and it will become gridlocked.

[Aldo]

police were in attendance at the roundabout where the bridges merge today. one route to Kirkcaldy goes via Powmill..... i think the police will be out in force but I also think it will be chaos as traffic will be turned back the way they came. Gawd knows what they'll do with the traffic from the villages that lead onto the bypass not much coverage for something in force from 4 am tomorrow.


Cannot expect it to run smoothly for the first few days but like I say all it will take is one accident and it'll be even worse than it'll already be.

Makes me glad I'm only going to Glenrothes from Leven but Mrs Aldo on the other hand makes her first commuter trip between Kirkcaldy and Waverley so will see how that goes.

[Aldo]

http://news.stv.tv/east-central/1335043-disruption-expected-as-forth-road-bridge-closure-measures-unveiled/ Chaos tomorrow, lots of pissed off drivers, the biggest worry has to be a couple of minor accidents on these roads and it will become gridlocked.

Silver there was a serious accident on the A985 Valleyfield this morning and the road was closed in both ways between 7 and 12 today.

Like I say I'm glad I don't need to travel that far but do sympathise with commuters!

[cabbageandribs1875]

The new bridge will be two lanes with a hard shoulder and during peak hours they will allow the hard shoulder to be used as a third lane to ease congestion


good idea, but thinking about it will that not cause bottlenecks at either end

[cabbageandribs1875]

Great photographs, the station name sign is held at the Boness Railway Museum. My daughter had her picture taken beside it!



nice one :agree: the ground photo also shows you just how it was possible to get 65,000+ in a certain derby game, imagine if we had went ahead with the expansion to 100,000 :eek:

[pacorosssco]

wish all well on roads. there are some very careless drivers out there. be safe

[.Sean.]

15734Where was this station??

[Moulin Yarns]

good idea, but thinking about it will that not cause bottlenecks at either end

Don't think it will be any worse than it is heading north just now or before the bridge was closed, where 5 lanes try to squeeze into 2 (or indeed 1 with the contraflow up to the closure!!.

[silverhibee]

6 o'clock start for me. :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

Wishing all commuter in and out of the Capital the best for the coming week. I'm just glad I don't have to do it.

[trev the hat]

I've had to knock back a job in Cupar tomorrow as wouldn't get it finished with the 2 hour each way journey.
Been getting a lot of work in the Fife / Perthsire area so it's a big hit for me that's for sure.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Wishing all commuter in and out of the Capital the best for the coming week. I'm just glad I don't have to do it.

My thoughts are with their families.

[Thecat23]

My thoughts are with their families.

And friends!

[Dashing Bob S]

You know how these things go - it'll be way after New Year before it reopens.

The club or supporters association, or both, should serious consider chartering the Maid of the Forth on a roll-on/roll off sail over to Kirkcaldy from Leith docks.

[silverhibee]

Well, about to hit the roads, happy days.

[SausageSurprise]

Well, about to hit the roads, happy days.

I never knew you were on the backshift this week 😜

[Jim44]

You know how these things go - it'll be way after New Year before it reopens.

The club or supporters association, or both, should serious consider chartering the Maid of the Forth on a roll-on/roll off sail over to Kirkcaldy from Leith docks.

As if the present situation wasn't bad enough, there are rumours, hopefully unfounded, that there is a chance the bridge might never fully reopen.

[Gatecrasher]

I was thinking it might be busy coming in the this morning but it was fine, I was thinkin g the Fifers would be coming in during my normal commuting time.

[greenlex]

I've had to knock back a job in Cupar tomorrow as wouldn't get it finished with the 2 hour each way journey.
Been getting a lot of work in the Fife / Perthsire area so it's a big hit for me that's for sure.
Poor excuse. Some folk have that travelling time some days.

[Mr White]

15734Where was this station??

Easter road park halt was on the line to leith central. it was sited where the hawkhill flats are now and as can be seen from the photo was in a deep cutting. It was short lived. After the halt was opened in 1948 the line was closed to passenger traffic in 1952 when leith central station was converted to a diesel depot. The line was closed completely in 1972.

The wall at the top of the cutting on the left hand side just out of shot still exists, it's the boundary of lochend park and the new road down to the dunbar factory. The road more or less follows the route the railway took on it's way to abbeyhill station.

I think this cutting was filled in with (amongst other things) the rubble from the upper section of the east terrace when it was demolished in the early 80's.

[Jack]

So just what are the travel times?

I'm interested in drive times Glasgow to Perth, Edinburgh to Perth, Edinburgh to Dunfermline and back.

Feel free to add any other routes or modes of transport for other folks :-)

[Golden Bear]

As if the present situation wasn't bad enough, there are rumours, hopefully unfounded, that there is a chance the bridge might never fully reopen.

Other rumours on Facebook saying it could be April before the bridge reopens.

[Bostonhibby]

Easter road park halt was on the line to leith central. it was sited where the hawkhill flats are now and as can be seen from the photo was in a deep cutting. It was short lived. After the halt was opened in 1948 the line was closed to passenger traffic in 1952 when leith central station was converted to a diesel depot. The line was closed completely in 1972.

The wall at the top of the cutting on the left hand side just out of shot still exists, it's the boundary of lochend park and the new road down to the dunbar factory. The road more or less follows the route the railway took on it's way to abbeyhill station.

I think this cutting was filled in with (amongst other things) the rubble from the upper section of the east terrace when it was demolished in the early 80's.

:agree: Great picture. Used to mess around there as a kid, my Dad was born, and my granny lived all her life, in a house just a couple of hundred yards away.

[hibs0666]

Other rumours on Facebook saying it could be April before the bridge reopens.

That's nothing - I heard a rumour that the bridge is going to collapse into the river later this week.

[trev the hat]

Poor excuse. Some folk have that travelling time some days.

Some folk prefer to eat their tea before 10pm.

[Jim44]

That's nothing - I heard a rumour that the bridge is going to collapse into the river later this week.

Very droll. Rumours maybe, but a guy (official) stating on radio that new year opening was highly optimistic and opening date was unknown at this stage.

[Smartie]

You know how these things go - it'll be way after New Year before it reopens.

The club or supporters association, or both, should serious consider chartering the Maid of the Forth on a roll-on/roll off sail over to Kirkcaldy from Leith docks.

That would be superb - get the boat to the cup game in the New Year, a few beers on board.

Nice.

[scoopyboy]

As if the present situation wasn't bad enough, there are rumours, hopefully unfounded, that there is a chance the bridge might never fully reopen.

Was told that today as well.

[mim]

That would be superb - get the boat to the cup game in the New Year, a few beers on board.

Nice.

Not impossible.

I got the hovercraft from Kirkcaldy to Leith for the Bolton pre-season game a few years ago. :flag:

[Peevemor]

It looks very much like Transport Scotland/the Scottish Government took a gamble on the structure holding out until the new bridge opened.

Nearly!

[MB62]

Very droll. Rumours maybe, but a guy (official) stating on radio that new year opening was highly optimistic and opening date was unknown at this stage.

I have heard this too, and not unexpected. Also heard that this problem was spotted in an inspection 5 years ago but they didn't have the money at the time to fix it and decided to just 'keep an eye on it'.

[Broken Gnome]

Leaving Edinburgh city centre at 10.30am to Kirkcaldy via the official diversion is about an hour and forty - only hold up was coming off the Clackmannanshire Bridge which was stop start for a mile or so.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Very droll. Rumours maybe, but a guy (official) stating on radio that new year opening was highly optimistic and opening date was unknown at this stage.

They worded it in a way that gave them 12 months to fix it. They never said January did they - all they done was implied it.

[Geo_1875]

They worded it in a way that gave them 12 months to fix it. They never said January did they - all they done was implied it.

Originally said that they hoped the bridge would be open for people returning to work after New Year. That was the Minister for Transport.

[Jim44]

Brian Monteith (Tory, so possibly scoring points ) having a go at Scottish Government dragging their heels, failure to act on Forth Bridge problems five years ago, prioritising towards campaigning rather than administering and grossly underspending public funds. If true these accusations don't sit well in the present climate.

[silverhibee]

Wasn't as bad as i thought this morning.

Just seems to be those pesky Fifers causing all the problems on the roads this morning. :greengrin

[Allant1981]

As if the present situation wasn't bad enough, there are rumours, hopefully unfounded, that there is a chance the bridge might never fully reopen.

I deal with a lot of vehicles as part of my job and have just been told it might not open again to HGV's, cars etc should be fine though

[Hibee87]

Not sure if true but seen this photo on Facebook, meant to be 8 like this across the bridge

[greenlex]

Some folk prefer to eat their tea before 10pm.

I know. The point I was making it could be done. Seems stupid to knock it back and moan about it for the sake of a couple of hours when for some folk it's normal.

[BroxburnHibee]

Not sure if true but seen this photo on Facebook, meant to be 8 like this across the bridge

Pretty sure that photo is accurate and if that part needs manufactured, removed and replaced then a few weeks seems highly optimistic.

No doubt the clamour for a full inquiry on this will grow the longer the bridge says closed.

[Thecat23]

I blame Morton fc, their groundsman and police Scotland! To close it so close to Xmas when they knew many had already set off was shocking 😉

[lapsedhibee]

No doubt the clamour for a full inquiry on this will grow the longer the bridge says closed.

First question should be:
Does Christian Nade still live in Edinburgh and if so how many times during the last five years has he crossed the Forth to train with Dundee or Raith?
:nade:

[truehibernian]

I blame Morton fc, their groundsman and police Scotland! To close it so close to Xmas when they knew many had already set off was shocking 😉

I blame Barry Took.....'why oh why oh why' (you'll be too young to remember TC 😉)

[Thecat23]

I blame Barry Took.....'why oh why oh why' (you'll be too young to remember TC 😉)

Haha I am indeed, I'm just a young pup 😜

[truehibernian]

Haha I am indeed, I'm just a young pup 😜

JB and us older boys ken whits goan on

[jgl07]

Was told that today as well.
The Forth Road Bridge is suffering from the impact of rust in the main cables. This has been going on for decades. It is impossible to stop but can be slowed down by drying out the cables and sealing them to stop water getting in. It was assumed that a weight limit would have to be imposed within the next few years. Hence the construction of the new bridge.

This problem is to do with the deck not the cables so there is no reason it cannot be fully repaired. But the current weather conditions will not make that easy to do. Dangling from under a bridge in a howling gale and driving rain way above the Forth is not easy.

At some stage a weight limit will be imposed and heavy vehicles will have to go elsewhere. There is the shiny new Clackmannanshire Bridge, the Kincardine Bridge and the Replacement Forth Crossing (under construction). When the latter is opened, the existing bridge will close for repairs and will be reopened as a public transport facility for buses and taxis. All private vehicles will be directed to the Replacement Crossing.

[Peevemor]

I blame Barry Took.....'why oh why oh why' (you'll be too young to remember TC )

Depends on your points of view.

[truehibernian]

Depends on your points of view.

Absolutely Peeve 😜 Barry would have dealt with the postponement in his stride and with a wee smile to camera 😀

[Waxy]

First question should be:
Does Christian Nade still live in Edinburgh and if so how many times during the last five years has he crossed the Forth to train with Dundee or Raith?
:nade:
Hearts taking Zefuiauthingy to Cowdenbeath was the final straw.

[jonty]

On the plus side, traffic in fife was quieter this morning. Every cloud etc etc.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Did they clarify which New Year?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

JB and us older boys ken whits goan on

But he does have a thingy shaped like a turnip ;)
Wrong show I know.
Barry Took made John Major appear luminous

[Just Alf]

Not sure if true but seen this photo on Facebook, meant to be 8 like this across the bridge

There's 8 sections like this, not sure how many are broken though... This was an area of weakness identified a few years ago and improvement works don't seem to have ever happened (although someone said one of the 8 was upgraded, at huge cost and great difficulty so was never progressed further).

The big concern though is, compare some of the pictures .... There's a lot of ongoing movement in the cracked beam!


Edit. The 1st para is, like others, just what I've been told :aok:

[CRAZYHIBBY]

The bridge won't open next year ....this is the rumour I'm hearing. ..it will take weeks or months to fix each section and apparently there's 8 sections confirmed that are damaged......its purely a rumour...but it's not from a guy in the pub.. maybe a good time for people to approach their unions and push for home working ...if their job can be done from home of course.

[PatHead]

The bridge won't open next year ....this is the rumour I'm hearing. ..it will take weeks or months to fix each section and apparently there's 8 sections confirmed that are damaged......its purely a rumour...but it's not from a guy in the pub.. maybe a good time for people to approach their unions and push for home working ...if their job can be done from home of course.


The fishman from Anstruther was saying it. :greengrin

[CallumLaidlaw]

The bridge won't open next year ....this is the rumour I'm hearing. ..it will take weeks or months to fix each section and apparently there's 8 sections confirmed that are damaged......its purely a rumour...but it's not from a guy in the pub.. maybe a good time for people to approach their unions and push for home working ...if their job can be done from home of course.

Strange for them to reiterate yesterday that they are confident for early january reopening if this was to be the case. I read somewhere that it would reopen for cars but not HGV's - so lots of different rumours flying around.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

I hope its not the case as i use the bridge daily

[Geo_1875]

I hope its not the case as i use the bridge daily

You mean you used to?

[Famous Fiver]

They didn't say which January it would be reopening!!

Another theory (completely unsubstantiated) is that the replacement bridge is being built too close to the present one. All the drilling and concrete they have had to pour in for the foundations of the new bridge have disturbed the riverbed and as a result the foundations of the old bridge have been disturbed, causing the stress then cracks to appear.

Who knows?

Perhaps some of our engineering/architectural brethren may care to comment?

[hibs0666]

They didn't say which January it would be reopening!!

Another theory (completely unsubstantiated) is that the replacement bridge is being built too close to the present one. All the drilling and concrete they have had to pour in for the foundations of the new bridge have disturbed the riverbed and as a result the foundations of the old bridge have been disturbed, causing the stress then cracks to appear.

Who knows?

Perhaps some of our engineering/architectural brethren may care to comment?

Sounds like pish tae me likes.

[Jim44]

Sounds like pish tae me likes.

.......... and you're an expert in pish, so it must be. :greengrin

[hibs0666]

.......... and you're an expert in pish, so it must be. :greengrin

Aye - you taught me well. :wink:

[hhibs]

They need the current bridge til new one opens and even after the new one is open the current bridge is needed to help with congestion...because the traffic crossing either way is a nightmare for at least 6 hours a day !! Think the new bridge is only 2 lanes each way, whereas a 3;laner would have made sense !! But hey why would there be a sensible decision made like that by the Scottish Government ....Think about the trams waste of money and now extending that waste of cash by taking the system down to Ocean Terminal or there abouts .

There are so many mistakes in your rant I cant be bothered to correct them all,don't let any facts get in the way of making you point though!!

[hhibs]

The Forth Road Bridge is suffering from the impact of rust in the main cables. This has been going on for decades. It is impossible to stop but can be slowed down by drying out the cables and sealing them to stop water getting in. It was assumed that a weight limit would have to be imposed within the next few years. Hence the construction of the new bridge.

This problem is to do with the deck not the cables so there is no reason it cannot be fully repaired. But the current weather conditions will not make that easy to do. Dangling from under a bridge in a howling gale and driving rain way above the Forth is not easy.

At some stage a weight limit will be imposed and heavy vehicles will have to go elsewhere. There is the shiny new Clackmannanshire Bridge, the Kincardine Bridge and the Replacement Forth Crossing (under construction). When the latter is opened, the existing bridge will close for repairs and will be reopened as a public transport facility for buses and taxis. All private vehicles will be directed to the Replacement Crossing.

Thanks for this information,good to know the facts.

[frazeHFC]

8 very large cracks on a structure that big, would be surprised (pleasantly cos it's a nightmare) if it is open in the three weeks they initially stated. Rumours of Spring or worse would be horrific although could be valid shouts.

[Willis1875]

Controlled explosion at north side of the bridge 2 months ago
Now structural damage discovered at north side of bridge
🤔🤔

[Jim44]

Controlled explosion at north side of the bridge 2 months ago
Now structural damage discovered at north side of bridge
樂樂

Was that explosion not well away from the bridge and in an area of the approach road to the new bridge? Unlikely to be significant but you never know.

[robinp]

Controlled explosion at north side of the bridge 2 months ago
Now structural damage discovered at north side of bridge
?dd14?dd14

Was at least half a mile away at the ferrytoll roundabout next to the sewage treatment facility. Totally unrelated.

[hibees 7062]

They didn't say which January it would be reopening!!

Another theory (completely unsubstantiated) is that the replacement bridge is being built too close to the present one. All the drilling and concrete they have had to pour in for the foundations of the new bridge have disturbed the riverbed and as a result the foundations of the old bridge have been disturbed, causing the stress then cracks to appear.

Who knows?

Perhaps some of our engineering/architectural brethren may care to comment?

I'd be very surprised if this was true

[Mark79]

I have a funeral to attend in dunfermline this Saturday at 11am. Any idea on how bad the delays are on the roads so as to give me an idea when to leave. I'm based south edinburgh so probably an idea of journey time from Newbridge to dunfermline. Have all the routes but no idea how bad it will be.

[hibsfan7]

IT is taking 90 minutes to go from Edinburgh to Dunfermline by bus

[Stax]

Controlled explosion at north side of the bridge 2 months ago
Now structural damage discovered at north side of bridge
樂樂
Uncontrolled explosion south side of the bridge, my missus works in Dunfermline and in under a week she's already going Tonto....

[Sir David Gray]

I have a funeral to attend in dunfermline this Saturday at 11am. Any idea on how bad the delays are on the roads so as to give me an idea when to leave. I'm based south edinburgh so probably an idea of journey time from Newbridge to dunfermline. Have all the routes but no idea how bad it will be.

I would leave about 9:30.

[monktonharp]

I blame Morton fc, their groundsman and police Scotland! To close it so close to Xmas when they knew many had already set off was shocking that's hilarious. pished ma pants reading it:rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

And friends!and Fife Police, anyone that knows anyone north of south queensferry etcetc, so sad:rolleyes:

[Purple & Green]

I have a funeral to attend in dunfermline this Saturday at 11am. Any idea on how bad the delays are on the roads so as to give me an idea when to leave. I'm based south edinburgh so probably an idea of journey time from Newbridge to dunfermline. Have all the routes but no idea how bad it will be.

Is it trainable?

[monktonharp]

Pretty sure that photo is accurate and if that part needs manufactured, removed and replaced then a few weeks seems highly optimistic.

No doubt the clamour for a full inquiry on this will grow the longer the bridge says closed.I have not followed the info, re-the bridge closure in any way and do understand any frustration felt by many that have used it for years,to get to and from work. we could look at it, in the same way as the situation last week at Greenock, I suppose:rolleyes: but seriously, this bridge is over 50 years old and has served it's purpose, with plenty of life left in it, given some decent PPM, which some may know is Planned Preventative Maintenance. the new bridge, surely was not just in the planning because it might look nice along side a 50 year old bridge. the authorities have taken a safety conscious decision, a bit like Police Scotland stopping football matches, in the interests of the public and mainly on safety grounds. thank goodness the Police don't have the final say on shutting bridges:rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

It looks very much like Transport Scotland/the Scottish Government took a gamble on the structure holding out until the new bridge opened.

Nearly!aye, it's all their fault, apparently:aok:

[monktonharp]

Left at 5:20 this morning, and got to Leven at 6:45, normally takes me an hour albeit later.I was leavin' for Leven at eleven minutes past eleven today. did not get there, until about eleven the night. got back quicker though. I blame the Greenock polis.

[monktonharp]

This is exactly the reason they should have done a tunnel and not another bridge. A tunnel can be used no matter that the weather as well high winds and rain.I don't think you have ever worked in a tunnel. you just don't seem that type, to me. However, for your information, there has indeed already been a "tunnel", between the south and north of the Forth when Kinneil colliery (Bo'ness) was linked underground with Valleyfield colliery (west fife) near High Valleyfield, so it was quite do-able. all that was required was a "tube" tae stop folk from droonin' if it was a new crossing. depends of course, if Police Scotland were happy.:wink:

[monktonharp]

They need the current bridge til new one opens and even after the new one is open the current bridge is needed to help with congestion...because the traffic crossing either way is a nightmare for at least 6 hours a day !! Think the new bridge is only 2 lanes each way, whereas a 3;laner would have made sense !! But hey why would there be a sensible decision made like that by the Scottish Government ....Think about the trams waste of money and now extending that waste of cash by taking the system down to Ocean Terminal or there abouts .without getting "political" do you know who took the decision on the Trams? I do.:wink:

[hibs0666]

without getting "political" do you know who took the decision on the Trams? I do.:wink:

I thought the trams service was proving extremely popular in Edinburgh, and was having no impact on bus passenger numbers? :confused:

[Arch Stanton]

I thought the trams service was proving extremely popular in Edinburgh, and was having no impact on bus passenger numbers? :confused:

I didn't expect there to be any environmental benefits to be honest. :agree:

Anyway, back on topic, I don't think there will be any political points to be scored over this - I just can't see expert advice not being followed either now or in 2010.

[Thecat23]

that's hilarious. pished ma pants reading it:rolleyes:

Thanks I thought so as well 😎👍🏼

[Thecat23]

I don't think you have ever worked in a tunnel. you just don't seem that type, to me. However, for your information, there has indeed already been a "tunnel", between the south and north of the Forth when Kinneil colliery (Bo'ness) was linked underground with Valleyfield colliery (west fife) near High Valleyfield, so it was quite do-able. all that was required was a "tube" tae stop folk from droonin' if it was a new crossing. depends of course, if Police Scotland were happy.:wink:

I'm interested to know what type of person works in a tunnel?

[dangermouse]

I'm interested to know what type of person works in a tunnel?

A mole :dunno:

[Thecat23]

A mole :dunno:

😂 Liked that.

[RyeSloan]

The SNP seem to be in a bit of a muddle on this...we had Sturgeon saying emphatically just a day or two ago that previously planned but then cancelled maintenance would not have prevented the issue. But now lo and behold actually it would have, replacing the whole section no less.

But of course it's not their fault, oh no...it's actually the fault of an organisation that doesn't exist anymore. Who would have thunk it!

Will be very interesting to hear what the drivers were for the re-scoping of this repair work (down from £10m to £0.5m)...and if the scrapping of the tolls just a year or two previously were a key factor in terms of finding the finance for the repairs.

[marinello59]

The SNP seem to be in a bit of a muddle on this...we had Sturgeon saying emphatically just a day or two ago that previously planned but then cancelled maintenance would not have prevented the issue. But now lo and behold actually it would have, replacing the whole section no less.

But of course it's not their fault, oh no...it's actually the fault of an organisation that doesn't exist anymore. Who would have thunk it!

Will be very interesting to hear what the drivers were for the re-scoping of this repair work (down from £10m to £0.5m)...and if the scrapping of the tolls just a year or two previously were a key factor in terms of finding the finance for the repairs.

Sturgeon was under pressure during FM questions today on this. That's the first time I have thought Dugdale had got the better of her.

[snooky]

It's easier to shoot fish when they are in a bucket though ;-)

[ronaldo7]

Some previous on the Bridge.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/look-on-down-from-the-bridge/

Hope you ALL like it.:aok:

[snooky]

Some previous on the Bridge.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/look-on-down-from-the-bridge/

Hope you ALL like it.:aok:

More misleading headlines in the press today.
Saying urgent work required was stated in email 10 months ago. If you read on, the 'small print' it says that the work was to different part of the frame and was related to vehicles carrying extremely heavy loads.
I wish the media would just tell it like it is and stop twisting the wording of headlines to try and gain political points.

[TRC]

this has been going on since at least 2002, when the Scottish Government took the best concrete expert in the world at the time here. So they have known about this for a long time.

[ronaldo7]

this has been going on since at least 2002, when the Scottish Government took the best concrete expert in the world at the time here. So they have known about this for a long time.

That's why, when the SNP came to power in 2007 they decided a New Bridge was required. I wonder why it took so long from 2002 until then for the previous administration Lab/Lib dems to act:aok: Asleep at the wheel maybe?

[marinello59]

That's why, when the SNP came to power in 2007 they decided a New Bridge was required. I wonder why it took so long from 2002 until then for the previous administration Lab/Lib dems to act:aok: Asleep at the wheel maybe?

Labour would never have built a new bridge, they have described it as a vanity project. Well done to the SNP for having the ambition to build it.
They do have questions to answer about the maintenance of the old one but that's all part of the joys of being in power.

[ronaldo7]

Labour would never have built a new bridge, they have described it as a vanity project. Well done to the SNP for having the ambition to build it.
They do have questions to answer about the maintenance of the old one but that's all part of the joys of being in power.

:agree: And I'm sure the answers will be Forth coming:greengrin

At the moment, all efforts should be to get the bridge fixed.

[marinello59]

:agree: And I'm sure the answers will be Forth coming:greengrin

.

One of your better puns. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Labour would never have built a new bridge, they have described it as a vanity project. Well done to the SNP for having the ambition to build it.
They do have questions to answer about the maintenance of the old one but that's all part of the joys of being in power.

https://t.co/Idbioni9YC

[snooky]

One of your better puns. :greengrin

Agreed - but we're only here for the crack ;-)

[marinello59]

Agreed - but we're only here for the crack ;-)

I shouldn't have encouraged this.😃

[RyeSloan]

Some previous on the Bridge. http://wingsoverscotland.com/look-on-down-from-the-bridge/ Hope you ALL like it.:aok:

Rather selective view of history but no doubt there has been plenty of flip flopping on this subject.

However the Herald article shows that the risk of this type of failure was raised multiple times and it's pretty clear to me that decisions were taken in hope rather than any informed analysis that the bridge would last until the new one was opened. It's also pretty clear that financial outlay to the Scottish Government were pretty high up on the reasons list for these decisions...I'm not buying the spin that the decisions were taken in absolute isolation by FOTA alone. Transport in Scotland is a devolved matter and if the senior politicians responsible for this matter were happy to devolve all key decisions without any input or oversight then they are just as culpable as they would have been if they had made the decisions themselves..in fact maybe more so!

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14142182.Revealed__the_full_inside_story_of_why_th e_Forth_Road_Bridge_descended_into_chaos/

[ronaldo7]

Rather selective view of history but no doubt there has been plenty of flip flopping on this subject.

However the Herald article shows that the risk of this type of failure was raised multiple times and it's pretty clear to me that decisions were taken in hope rather than any informed analysis that the bridge would last until the new one was opened. It's also pretty clear that financial outlay to the Scottish Government were pretty high up on the reasons list for these decisions...I'm not buying the spin that the decisions were taken in absolute isolation by FOTA alone. Transport in Scotland is a devolved matter and if the senior politicians responsible for this matter were happy to devolve all key decisions without any input or oversight then they are just as culpable as they would have been if they had made the decisions themselves..in fact maybe more so!

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14142182.Revealed__the_full_inside_story_of_why_th e_Forth_Road_Bridge_descended_into_chaos/

I'd happily see a Parliamentary enquiry going back throughout the years. On a point re the tolls, the parliament voted 120 to 0 in favour.

Further update. https://t.co/qmTEYPKKvm

[RyeSloan]

I'd happily see a Parliamentary enquiry going back throughout the years. On a point re the tolls, the parliament voted 120 to 0 in favour. Further update. https://t.co/qmTEYPKKvm

An inquiry will be welcomed by most I would say. And don't get me wrong I'm not pointing a finger at any one party. Labour flip flopped for years, the greens suggested no bridge at all and the SNP have had ultimate responsibility for almost a decade.

Personally I would have built a frigging mega bridge to end the debate once and for all and as for the toll vote if I had been an MSP at the time it would have been 119 - 1 ;-)

[lucky]

Not sure about laying blame at any parties door but the reality is that it's happened under the SNP and as such they are left looking guilty over the funding.

Got to say that Mackay has not looked like he was in control but his two bosses have left him out to dry, Keith Brown and Nicola Strugeon should be taking greater responsibility. As for an inquiry not sure what that's going to achieve. I'd rather they spent the time & money ensuring that it does not happen again.

[snooky]

Not sure about laying blame at any parties door but the reality is that it's happened under the SNP and as such they are left looking guilty over the funding.

Got to say that Mackay has not looked like he was in control but his two bosses have left him out to dry, Keith Brown and Nicola Strugeon should be taking greater responsibility. As for an inquiry not sure what that's going to achieve. I'd rather they spent the time & money ensuring that it does not happen again.
Personally I would have thought the bridge engineers were in control. Mackay could promise that the bridge will be open in a week but it would be to no avail. It will be fixed when the engineers say it will be fixed.
Far too much fingerpointing from all sides in this whole unfortunate incident. Just get it fixed asap and move on.

[Jack]

I agree with the last couple of posts.

If the bridge had been closed for a couple of months a couple of years ago we'd be be going through the pain then. At least now minds are concentrated.

If it opens on January 4th as suggested with a functioning 4 lane road and stays open until the new bridge opens I think we'll have got off lightly.

Rocks and hard places.

[RyeSloan]

I agree with the last couple of posts. If the bridge had been closed for a couple of months a couple of years ago we'd be be going through the pain then. At least now minds are concentrated. If it opens on January 4th as suggested with a functioning 4 lane road and stays open until the new bridge opens I think we'll have got off lightly. Rocks and hard places.

To a degree...if closures were needed for essential maintenance then no one could really complain. If the work is needed it's needed but the huge difference is that it would have been planned and the public informed well in advance.

For such a main artery in the nations economy to be suddenly out of commission for 3 weeks over the busiest trading period is a disaster for some and a royal pain in the erse for others. Quite right then that some searching questions should be asked...sadly a lot of politicians seem far too focussed on the petty point scoring to actually ask the right questions, give the right answers or even wait for the facts before spouting off.

[Lucius Apuleius]

IMO the work that was needed a few years ago was not of such a magnitude that it demanded immediate remedying. If it had, no engineer in the world would have kept their mouths shut about it.

[RyeSloan]

IMO the work that was needed a few years ago was not of such a magnitude that it demanded immediate remedying. If it had, no engineer in the world would have kept their mouths shut about it.

And from what I have read they didn't. The parts had came to the end of their useful life and were recommended for replacement.

It would seem that replacement would have cost £m and caused significant disruption, a scheme of smaller repairs and monitoring was put in place as it wasn't deemed a severe safety risk (and of course saved spending £m but that had nothing to do with it of course), the real risk was exactly what has happened...a total failure and an emergency closure on identification through the monitoring regime.

Not quite the approach that I would have expected for such a major part of Scotland's infrastructure, cross your fingers and hope.

[The_Todd]

Let's get some facts straight here, without resorting to linking "Wings over Scotland".

Fact number one: Tolls provided £12m a year to the bridge which were abolished. This is a lot of money.

Fact number two: Central funding from the Govt to the bridge was cut by 65%. This is a staggering number.

Fact number three: FETA knew the bridge was in trouble, asked Transport Scotland for funding. Denied.

The SNP and nationalists on this thread can pass the buck all they want, but it sickens me that a party in power for so long and with such a majority can just wash their hands of it all and have their supporters lap it up. The Forth Road Bridge is an essential transport link. Not only for Edinburgh and Fife but beyond, the whole East Coast. I cannot accept that a government can let such a major structure fail while cutting back its funding to the bare bones and spin it so it's not their fault.

Is it really so believable that an ageing bridge could have just unforeseeably failed like this while skimping on maintenance? When the bridgemaster says the area which failed needs replaced or strengthened and is ignored, why can the government just say "wasn't me"?

Yes, all parties may have voted for the scrapping of tolls, but they didn't vote to "scrap tolls, not replace the funds then further reduce funding by 65%".

You know the saddest part of all of this? It seems people tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible on transport policy most are the ones who want independence. Identity politics has now become so important to some people it doesn't matter what the SNP do because they're on the same side on the independence debate. Bridge failing? Fine. But we're all Yessers, eh? I saw Pete Wishart MP on Twitter attacking "Unionists" for having the gall to attack the SNP on this. I find this nuts, that mundane things like letting transport policy should now be "Unionists" vs "Nationalists". This isn't the Scotland I want, it's pathetic. A Scotland were some people cheerlead for bad government so loudly, it's frightening. I don't want to say cult-like, but it really is.

I don't hide it, I voted Yes. But I've quickly become very disillusioned with the SNP and the Yes movement. The prize of independence for some seems unimportant to trivial matters like people's lives, as long as they protect the Yes movement and the biggest political party in it. The mere thought that the SNP could do something wrong seems to actually not compute in some people's heads.

And you know what? You'll probably all attack me now for saying "SNPBAAAD" or some boring rubbish like that, but you'll never win a second referendum until some of you quit the "dear leader" act. Actually trying to place the SNP above all criticism and talking like they're infallible is a little North Korea. To those of us who voted No, or voted Yes but cautiously it all seems a little odd.

I appreciate this is turning into a rant, so I'll stop here. But these are my honest feelings on the matter, and I'm so frustrated by Scottish politics right now. From the SNP and it's supporters acting like they're above the laws of physics, to Labour and the Lib Dems for failing to really provide a positive alternative or holding them to account. And the Greens? I won't get started on them.

[AndyM_1875]

Some previous on the Bridge.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/look-on-down-from-the-bridge/

Hope you ALL like it.:aok:

As a Fife based commuter no I really don't like it at all. I somewhat object to being patronized by a clueless angry gimp who lives in Bath and pontificates from on high. He has little to no understanding or appreciation of how this has screwed up a lot of people's working plans as well as costing the economy of east central Scotland an absolute fortune.

Not really interested in party political axe grinding but I'll say this, the Bridge requires approximately £81m of Maintenance work done most of which has been shelved by cuts & budget reductions from Holyrood. To whatever party is in Government and this time round it's the SNP who have been caught with their pants down, I say this.... Get the work done and once the Bridge has re-opened get the rest of the Maintenance work underway!

[Lucius Apuleius]

And from what I have read they didn't. The parts had came to the end of their useful life and were recommended for replacement.

It would seem that replacement would have cost £m and caused significant disruption, a scheme of smaller repairs and monitoring was put in place as it wasn't deemed a severe safety risk (and of course saved spending £m but that had nothing to do with it of course), the real risk was exactly what has happened...a total failure and an emergency closure on identification through the monitoring regime.

Not quite the approach that I would have expected for such a major part of Scotland's infrastructure, cross your fingers and hope.

I think you are actually agreeing with me on some points. The current cracks were neither evident nor could be envisaged. I have not seen any report saying how long the current catastrophic cracks have been there so really cannot comment as to how much sooner they could have been noticed.

[johnbc70]

Let's get some facts straight here, without resorting to linking "Wings over Scotland".

Fact number one: Tolls provided £12m a year to the bridge which were abolished. This is a lot of money.

Fact number two: Central funding from the Govt to the bridge was cut by 65%. This is a staggering number.

Fact number three: FETA knew the bridge was in trouble, asked Transport Scotland for funding. Denied.

The SNP and nationalists on this thread can pass the buck all they want, but it sickens me that a party in power for so long and with such a majority can just wash their hands of it all and have their supporters lap it up. The Forth Road Bridge is an essential transport link. Not only for Edinburgh and Fife but beyond, the whole East Coast. I cannot accept that a government can let such a major structure fail while cutting back its funding to the bare bones and spin it so it's not their fault.

Is it really so believable that an ageing bridge could have just unforeseeably failed like this while skimping on maintenance? When the bridgemaster says the area which failed needs replaced or strengthened and is ignored, why can the government just say "wasn't me"?

Yes, all parties may have voted for the scrapping of tolls, but they didn't vote to "scrap tolls, not replace the funds then further reduce funding by 65%".

You know the saddest part of all of this? It seems people tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible on transport policy most are the ones who want independence. Identity politics has now become so important to some people it doesn't matter what the SNP do because they're on the same side on the independence debate. Bridge failing? Fine. But we're all Yessers, eh? I saw Pete Wishart MP on Twitter attacking "Unionists" for having the gall to attack the SNP on this. I find this nuts, that mundane things like letting transport policy should now be "Unionists" vs "Nationalists". This isn't the Scotland I want, it's pathetic. A Scotland were some people cheerlead for bad government so loudly, it's frightening. I don't want to say cult-like, but it really is.

I don't hide it, I voted Yes. But I've quickly become very disillusioned with the SNP and the Yes movement. The prize of independence for some seems unimportant to trivial matters like people's lives, as long as they protect the Yes movement and the biggest political party in it. The mere thought that the SNP could do something wrong seems to actually not compute in some people's heads.

And you know what? You'll probably all attack me now for saying "SNPBAAAD" or some boring rubbish like that, but you'll never win a second referendum until some of you quit the "dear leader" act. Actually trying to place the SNP above all criticism and talking like they're infallible is a little North Korea. To those of us who voted No, or voted Yes but cautiously it all seems a little odd.

I appreciate this is turning into a rant, so I'll stop here. But these are my honest feelings on the matter, and I'm so frustrated by Scottish politics right now. From the SNP and it's supporters acting like they're above the laws of physics, to Labour and the Lib Dems for failing to really provide a positive alternative or holding them to account. And the Greens? I won't get started on them.

Well said, you sum it up well. For too many SNP = Independence and to hell with everything and everyone else.

[cabbageandribs1875]

thank god we we didn't get the alternative bridge that the northern branch of the westminster labour party wanted us to build

http://cornucopia3d.e-oncontent.com/storeItems/Objects/Architecture/Bridges/Merlin_s_Free_Rope_Bridge_Vue_106_0_img.jpg


Labour couldn't run a menage let alone a scottish government... thank the lord above the voting next year will see a continuation of the only political party in scotland that can make a difference for the people of this country, although we do welcome a challenge from the only other credible scottish political party

http://europeangreens.eu/sites/europeangreens.eu/files/scottish_green_party_logo.png

[RyeSloan]

I think you are actually agreeing with me on some points. The current cracks were neither evident nor could be envisaged. I have not seen any report saying how long the current catastrophic cracks have been there so really cannot comment as to how much sooner they could have been noticed.

Sure I think we are...but I disagree it couldn't have been envisaged. The whole section was recommended for replacement because of its age...the story is rather grey from that point on and to be honest it's probably just poor government at work. Too many politicos from all sides thinking short term. Local councillors wanting to avoid long term (but at least planned!) disruption and general moaning in its Burghs about the inconvenience of it all, central government seeing a way to avoid spending £m (which thanks to the scrapping of the tolls and devolution) now had to be found from Scottish government central funds. Chuck in an 'independent' body that was already scrapped but still existed and you have a right mess (and of course everyone but no one to take responsibility).

I could ramble on about the flip flopping about a new bridge and the decade it took to get round to starting the thing from when it was obvious a replacement was needed (not to mention the likelihood that an additional one would have been to everyone's liking apart from anyone who doesn't use it!) but I've probably bored everyone enough already :-)

[Moulin Yarns]

thank god we we didn't get the alternative bridge that the northern branch of the westminster labour party wanted us to build

http://cornucopia3d.e-oncontent.com/storeItems/Objects/Architecture/Bridges/Merlin_s_Free_Rope_Bridge_Vue_106_0_img.jpg


Labour couldn't run a menage let alone a scottish government... thank the lord above the voting next year will see a continuation of the only political party in scotland that can make a difference for the people of this country, although we do welcome a challenge from the only other credible scottish political party

http://europeangreens.eu/sites/europeangreens.eu/files/scottish_green_party_logo.png


Totally agree. Scottish Greens are the only party that can make a difference and the snp can challenge. :wink:

[Northernhibee]

thank god we we didn't get the alternative bridge that the northern branch of the westminster labour party wanted us to build

http://cornucopia3d.e-oncontent.com/storeItems/Objects/Architecture/Bridges/Merlin_s_Free_Rope_Bridge_Vue_106_0_img.jpg


Labour couldn't run a menage let alone a scottish government... thank the lord above the voting next year will see a continuation of the only political party in scotland that can make a difference for the people of this country, although we do welcome a challenge from the only other credible scottish political party

http://europeangreens.eu/sites/europeangreens.eu/files/scottish_green_party_logo.png


:rolleyes: The standard of debate on this board has diminished so much ever since the referendum. What a crying shame.

[Just Alf]

:rolleyes: The standard of debate on this board has diminished so much ever since the referendum. What a crying shame.
Agreed.... from all sides though.. it always seems to be a case of #SNP/TORY/LABOUR GREEN etc BAD (delete as appropriate)

Yeah labour didn't spend the cash they had to start a new bridge. Yeah the SNP could've done better on the maintenance. Yeah LD have an MP that's a self admitted liar.... guys.... ALL parties have good people and bad people in them.... they also have some good policies and some poor policies (and some REALLY crap ones!)

It would be really grand if all of us could discuss the actual issue/s at hand for a change.

NH, I know I quoted you, but this is aimed at all of us... including me! (I deleted a post I was going to put up earlier when I realised it was the same old stuff!)



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Interesting piece from one of the guys making the decisions on the FRB. It looks like the money would have been available if they needed it.

https://t.co/3Zuprg8UYv

[Moulin Yarns]

I heard a tale yesterday that is a bit worrying.

OK it came from an unsuccessful bidder, but apparently the steel for the NEW bridge is coming from China and some of it is so poor that it is shattering.

Now, the bit I'm not sure about is this, would steel shatter? I know cast iron can shatter, but I'm not sure about steel

[Jack]

I heard a tale yesterday that is a bit worrying.

OK it came from an unsuccessful bidder, but apparently the steel for the NEW bridge is coming from China and some of it is so poor that it is shattering.

Now, the bit I'm not sure about is this, would steel shatter? I know cast iron can shatter, but I'm not sure about steel

I was treated to a tour for the replacement bridge a couple of months ago.

I can confirm the steel for the decking and it's basic fabrication is from China.

What we were told was that quality control folk from the contractor(s) were over there ensuring they all met the standard required.

[marinello59]

Interesting piece from one of the guys making the decisions on the FRB. It looks like the money would have been available if they needed it.

https://t.co/3Zuprg8UYv

So he has absolved himself and the local authority he convened of any blame. I'm shocked. :greengrin
Isn't he admitting there though that somebody did take a gamble with the maintenance?

[HibbyScott]

I heard a tale yesterday that is a bit worrying.

OK it came from an unsuccessful bidder, but apparently the steel for the NEW bridge is coming from China and some of it is so poor that it is shattering.

Now, the bit I'm not sure about is this, would steel shatter? I know cast iron can shatter, but I'm not sure about steel

I've not come across any stories of steel shattering I have to say. It's far more likely to fail in a more ductile manner with a crack propagating across a part like we have seen in the pictures of the failed component.

Chinese specifications for steel are broadly similar to those for European/North American specifications. And I'm sure that any steel making it's way over here has fully complied to these specifications, and has the certificates to prove it. Quality both at the plant and at the contractor wouldn't allow substandard material to be used.

[ronaldo7]

So he has absolved himself and the local authority he convened of any blame. I'm shocked. :greengrin
Isn't he admitting there though that somebody did take a gamble with the maintenance?

I think they've decided only to use a belt, instead of belt and braces:wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

i think they've decided only to use a belt, instead of belt and braces:wink:

lol

[Lucius Apuleius]

The steel will be subjected to UK QA/QC so I cannot see how it would be liable to shatter.

[snooky]

Any rumours on the bridge being opened early?
A convoy of lorries crossed over the FRB the other day apparently.

[Geo_1875]

Any rumours on the bridge being opened early?
A convoy of lorries crossed over the FRB the other day apparently.

Typical SNP. I bet they are doing this on purpose.

[ronaldo7]

Typical SNP. I bet they are doing this on purpose.

:tee hee:

[AndyM_1875]

Any rumours on the bridge being opened early?
A convoy of lorries crossed over the FRB the other day apparently.

Little chance of that. It's due to open 31 December 2016 and is on schedule and on cost.
The main road decking is to be in place late January/early February. My missus has had a tour of the site (she's does ergonomics stuff) and it's going to be a stunning piece of engineering. It's a single piece of roadway so there will be no rumble when you drive over it like with the current bridge.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Little chance of that. It's due to open 31 December 2016 and is on schedule and on cost.
The main road decking is to be in place late January/early February. My missus has had a tour of the site (she's does ergonomics stuff) and it's going to be a stunning piece of engineering. It's a single piece of roadway so there will be no rumble when you drive over it like with the current bridge.


might be wrong but i think he was meaning the present bridge getting opened earlier :greengrin i think the lorries were 'testing' the strength of something or other

[AndyM_1875]

might be wrong but i think he was meaning the present bridge getting opened earlier :greengrin i think the lorries were 'testing' the strength of something or other

Ah. My bad.
Yes they drove gritting lorries on to it midweek to strength test the existing joints.

The jungle drums in Fife where I live still don't think it'll be open before January 4.

[snooky]

According to BBC website today, the lorries were to test newly installed monitors.

[silverhibee]

Is that average speed cameras going up as well.

[lord bunberry]

Is that average speed cameras going up as well.
They've been up for a while going over to fife and when I was coming back from south queensferry the other night there was signs up in the other direction as well.

[lucky]

Bridge reopens tomorrow except HGVs

[Geo_1875]

Little chance of that. It's due to open 31 December 2016 and is on schedule and on cost.
The main road decking is to be in place late January/early February. My missus has had a tour of the site (she's does ergonomics stuff) and it's going to be a stunning piece of engineering. It's a single piece of roadway so there will be no rumble when you drive over it like with the current bridge.

Nicola Sturgeon Retweeted

Gordon Chree ‏@gordonchree · 7m7 minutes ago
The @forthroadbridge will open tomorrow to all vehicles except HGVs

[speedy_gonzales]

So they were using the HGV's to perform a load test the other night, decided it's OK for all traffic except HGV's, does anyone know if the remedial works were even carried out?
The BBC story seems to intimate works will carry on whilst carrying traffic, wouldn't have thought the support plates could be welded whilst the joint was moving??

[cabbageandribs1875]

only opening to cars when the occupants are wearing lifebelts :greengrin

[Peevemor]

So they were using the HGV's to perform a load test the other night, decided it's OK for all traffic except HGV's, does anyone know if the remedial works were even carried out?

A single HGV can be the equivalent of about 18 cars - ideal for tests if you ask me.


The BBC story seems to intimate works will carry on whilst carrying traffic, wouldn't have thought the support plates could be welded whilst the joint was moving??


The bridge moves non-stop, whether there is traffic or not.

[JeMeSouviens]

only opening to cars when the occupants are No voters :greengrin

FTFY :devil:

[speedy_gonzales]

The bridge moves non-stop, whether there is traffic or not.
Without a doubt, that bridge deck is practically a sail, but I would have thought it easier to weld with no traffic than with. Obviously whosoever's in charge has weighed up the options and decided the bridge opening sooner rather than later, works completed or not, was for the best.
There's been a LOT of pressure to get it open, and with Network Rail not cancelling their own works over Christmas its probably forced someone's hand,,,

[snooky]

FTFY :devil:

Oh dear - let the games begin :wink: :greengrin

[Geo_1875]

Without a doubt, that bridge deck is practically a sail, but I would have thought it easier to weld with no traffic than with. Obviously whosoever's in charge has weighed up the options and decided the bridge opening sooner rather than later, works completed or not, was for the best.
There's been a LOT of pressure to get it open, and with Network Rail not cancelling their own works over Christmas its probably forced someone's hand,,,

Or maybe someone decided it was safe to re-open to cars and small vehicles while further work can safely be done below the carriageway which will allow heavier vehicles to use the bridge.

[Jack]

From what I heard on the wireless the cracked joint has been temporarily fixed with some sort of collar. The flexible joint in that area that allows the bridge to flex, necessary for heavier loads, has been temporarily fixed with a fixed joint. A flexible joint will replace that so that HGVs can use the bridge again mid February.

[Just Alf]

It can't be fixed until late February, the temporary "splint" was load tested and can handle everything below HGV'S travelling over the bridge.

So it's a win, win really.... get the majority of traffic back using the bridge within acceptable safety limits and continue working to fix the fault.
Alternative would be to miss the 4th January target and wait until the fix is done by end February.

Politically which sounds the best option? :-)

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[silverhibee]

They've been up for a while going over to fife and when I was coming back from south queensferry the other night there was signs up in the other direction as well.

Now in operation, just came from Bridge to Barnton, two sets on both sides.

[lord bunberry]

Now in operation, just came from Bridge to Barnton, two sets on both sides.
Is it 40mph on the way back as well?

[silverhibee]

Is it 40mph on the way back as well?

Yeah.

[ronaldo7]

So it's concluded that the FRB failure was "Unforseeable", I love it when a story has a good ending.

It's just as well that the SNP vanity project which was dissed by some is actually on track and on budget. The Queensferry crossing's looking great.

Onwards and Upwards.

[marinello59]

So it's concluded that the FRB failure was "Unforseeable", I love it when a story has a good ending.

It's just as well that the SNP vanity project which was dissed by some is actually on track and on budget. The Queensferry crossing's looking great.

Onwards and Upwards.

Cleared by the majority verdict of a Holyrood committee no less so the Scottish Government must have been totally blameless for the closure.
The majority of that committee were SNP members. Spooky.

[ronaldo7]

Cleared by the majority verdict of a Holyrood committee no less so the Scottish Government must have been totally blameless for the closure.
The majority of that committee were SNP members. Spooky.

What are you saying M59?

Don't you think the committee looked at "all" the evidence and came to the correct decision?

Do you have the winning numbers for the lottery tonight?:wink:

[allmodcons]

Cleared by the majority verdict of a Holyrood committee no less so the Scottish Government must have been totally blameless for the closure.
The majority of that committee were SNP members. Spooky.

Are you suggesting the report is a cover up? Is Mac West is just another SNP robot?

Mac West, chair of ICE Scotland, said: “As the report suggests, such events are often unforeseen and unforeseeable, even at times when tough financial priorities are having to be managed.“However, we are pleased that the committee have picked up on a point we raised in our recently launched Manifesto for Infrastructure. While we very much welcome on-going capital investment in new infrastructure, it is vitally important that adequate financial provision is made for the maintenance of existing key infrastructure to ensure its future well-being.“The Forth Road Bridge was a modern marvel when built but it was never designed to cope with the volume and weight of traffic to which it is now subjected. It is a tribute to the civil engineers involved that they returned the bridge to working order ahead of schedule and in such appalling weather conditions.”

[marinello59]

Are you suggesting the report is a cover up? Is Mac West is just another SNP robot?

Mac West, chair of ICE Scotland, said: “As the report suggests, such events are often unforeseen and unforeseeable, even at times when tough financial priorities are having to be managed.“However, we are pleased that the committee have picked up on a point we raised in our recently launched Manifesto for Infrastructure. While we very much welcome on-going capital investment in new infrastructure, it is vitally important that adequate financial provision is made for the maintenance of existing key infrastructure to ensure its future well-being.“The Forth Road Bridge was a modern marvel when built but it was never designed to cope with the volume and weight of traffic to which it is now subjected. It is a tribute to the civil engineers involved that they returned the bridge to working order ahead of schedule and in such appalling weather conditions.”

I'm suggesting that having a group made up of a majority of members of the ruling establishment party is less than ideal. Try and look beyond party lines on this one.

[marinello59]

What are you saying M59?

Don't you think the committee looked at "all" the evidence and came to the correct decision?

Do you have the winning numbers for the lottery tonight?:wink:

I think they looked at all the evidence and picked the best fit. :greengrin
The new crossing is coming in on time, under budget and the engineering and design means we are going to have probably the best long crossing in the world. Something to take pride in and for the Scottish Government to quite rightly claim credit for.
The flip side is that they can't just wash their hands when things go wrong. If you cancel planned maintenance programmes and works then events will indeed become unforeseeable. As I have already said, let's try and look beyond party lines at this.

[allmodcons]

I'm suggesting that having a group made up of a majority of members of the ruling establishment party is less than ideal. Try and look beyond party lines on this one.

Why do think I posted a link to the IoCE? Because their experts and, more inmportantly, apolitical

[One Day Soon]

I think they looked at all the evidence and picked the best fit. :greengrin
The new crossing is coming in on time, under budget and the engineering and design means we are going to have probably the best long crossing in the world. Something to take pride in and for the Scottish Government to quite rightly claim credit for.
The flip side is that they can't just wash their hands when things go wrong. If you cancel planned maintenance programmes and works then events will indeed become unforeseeable. As I have already said, let's try and look beyond party lines at this.

Oh I think you know what's coming here....

[marinello59]

Why do think I posted a link to the IoCE? Because their experts and, more inmportantly, apolitical

You could have linked to other independent experts with an opposing view. I was pointing out the flaws in the commitee system. When the SNP get returned with a massive majority every committee will have an inbuilt SNP majority. That is far from ideal.

[Benny Brazil]

So it's concluded that the FRB failure was "Unforseeable", I love it when a story has a good ending.

It's just as well that the SNP vanity project which was dissed by some is actually on track and on budget. The Queensferry crossing's looking great.

Onwards and Upwards.

But only when it paints your beloved party in a good light you mean....

[ronaldo7]

But only when it paints your beloved party in a good light you mean....

If they'd done something wrong, I'd be the first to say, it's a pity others can't do likewise. The FRB outcomes have given the SNP a clean bill of health, if you can't see that, then that's your problem, not mine.

[RyeSloan]

You could have linked to other independent experts with an opposing view. I was pointing out the flaws in the commitee system. When the SNP get returned with a massive majority every committee will have an inbuilt SNP majority. That is far from ideal.

Correct. The whole premise of these committees and of course the parliament itself was that there would never be a situation like we have with the SNP and the potential stranglehold they will have on the chamber and the committees. I'm no expert on how the Scottish Parliament works but are the committees not meant to be the 'checks and balance' of the chamber (and thus removing the need for a second chamber)? If so then to have them dominated by the majority party seems to be robbing the system of a rather key element.

As for the report...not read it in detail and happy enough to accept that the issue could not have been foreseen (although the seem to have used a very narrow definition of the issue that came about to claim that that specific and particular fault was not foreseen). What I've not seen however is any clarity on if the canceled maintenance would have prevented this unforeseen issue in the first place by ensuring this and many other potential failures would have been mitigated in their entirety.

[Benny Brazil]

If they'd done something wrong, I'd be the first to say, it's a pity others can't do likewise. The FRB outcomes have given the SNP a clean bill of health, if you can't see that, then that's your problem, not mine.

Sure you would r7 - I'll wait with baited breath for that day.

[ronaldo7]

Correct. The whole premise of these committees and of course the parliament itself was that there would never be a situation like we have with the SNP and the potential stranglehold they will have on the chamber and the committees. I'm no expert on how the Scottish Parliament works but are the committees not meant to be the 'checks and balance' of the chamber (and thus removing the need for a second chamber)? If so then to have them dominated by the majority party seems to be robbing the system of a rather key element.

As for the report...not read it in detail and happy enough to accept that the issue could not have been foreseen (although the seem to have used a very narrow definition of the issue that came about to claim that that specific and particular fault was not foreseen). What I've not seen however is any clarity on if the canceled maintenance would have prevented this unforeseen issue in the first place by ensuring this and many other potential failures would have been mitigated in their entirety.

I keep seeing this posted about the parliament would never be in a situation like we have with the SNP and the potential stranglehold they have on the chamber and the committees...Who said this? When was it said? Why can't we have a situation in Scotland, just like the rest of the UK with a Parliament with a majority. I know we have an Unicameral Parliament, however, it wasn't the SNP who set it up.

I'm all for holding the Gov to account, but who set it up this way. Might it have been someone who wanted it this way?

[Jack]

Correct. The whole premise of these committees and of course the parliament itself was that there would never be a situation like we have with the SNP and the potential stranglehold they will have on the chamber and the committees. I'm no expert on how the Scottish Parliament works but are the committees not meant to be the 'checks and balance' of the chamber (and thus removing the need for a second chamber)? If so then to have them dominated by the majority party seems to be robbing the system of a rather key element.

As for the report...not read it in detail and happy enough to accept that the issue could not have been foreseen (although the seem to have used a very narrow definition of the issue that came about to claim that that specific and particular fault was not foreseen). What I've not seen however is any clarity on if the canceled maintenance would have prevented this unforeseen issue in the first place by ensuring this and many other potential failures would have been mitigated in their entirety.

I don't think there's been an important government committee where the ruling party hasn't had a majority. It's a majority, it's not exclusive, it's an accepted advantage of being the ruling party.

These committees take expert advice, from the likes of ICE, and produce a report. If everyone agrees it's hunky dory :-)

It might not be. Reports similar to this one and I've seen a good few are contradicted by minority reports.

They're normally published at the same time.

In the absence of a minority report it would seem the other members/parties saw no mileage in contesting the findings ... I'll leave it there :-)

[ronaldo7]

Sure you would r7 - I'll wait with baited breath for that day.

Thanks for that...Have a look at the McGarry thread. You can breathe then.:wink:

[Benny Brazil]

Thanks for that...Have a look at the McGarry thread. You can breathe then.:wink:

I'd rather not - have some painful memories of it degenerating into a point scoring battle between you and MA :wink:

[ronaldo7]

I'd rather not - have some painful memories of it degenerating into a point scoring battle between you and MA :wink:

If your memory is not diminished, you'll remember that I said that if McGarry was in the wrong then she should be held to account. Can't remember anyone saying this about Carmichael, Rimmer, or Danczuk though:aok:

[Benny Brazil]

If your memory is not diminished, you'll remember that I said that if McGarry was in the wrong then she should be held to account. Can't remember anyone saying this about Carmichael, Rimmer, or Danczuk though:aok:

"If".
And "if" she isnt in the wrong you'll be the first to post and let us know. And Thomson, and Boswell and Cameron.

[marinello59]

IM

In the absence of a minority report it would seem the other members/parties saw no mileage in contesting the findings ... I'll leave it there :-)
One of the Labour members of the committee gave multiple interviews after the findings to voice his dissatisfaction with the outcome.
The commitee system at Holyrood is there instead of a second chamber. It only works if no one party has an overall majority.

[ronaldo7]

"If".
And "if" she isnt in the wrong you'll be the first to post and let us know. And Thomson, and Boswell and Cameron.

Their might be another poster Lucky enough to get in before me:wink:

[Jack]

One of the Labour members of the committee gave multiple interviews after the findings to voice his dissatisfaction with the outcome.
The commitee system at Holyrood is there instead of a second chamber. It only works if no one party has an overall majority.

So rather than providing something constructive within the system, that could for example be used by his/her leader to hold to account, call for answers (bash) the SNP in the chamber, he's had a wee whinge that no one needs to pay attention to.

Of course if he had produced something or even had his counter view noted in the main report he would have been accountable and answerable for the contents to the parliament.

Any thoughts on why he wouldn't want to be accountable for his comments?