Accounts

[Peevemor]

No surprise really.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/rod-petrie-hibs-in-good-health-despite-800k-loss-1-3961858

[Danderhall Hibs]

Brilliant that the first 3 comments are Hearts fans.

Not one of them with an understanding that "cheating" is when you bump the poppy man for his money.

[GreenLake]

Brilliant that the first 3 comments are Hearts fans.

Not one of them with an understanding that "cheating" is when you bump the poppy man for his money.

Hearts fans = cheats and liars compounding fat interest while paying huge amounts of collective contributions to revalue the club which is owned 100% (-Vlad's nieces shares) by a private owner.

A fine example of fannie ownership. :faf:

[Pete]

We've been well run financially so we can handle losses like this once in a while.

Unlike others who have to form Sevco's, bump people for tens of millions of pounds, have dodgy share issues or leave charities out of pocket.

[grunt]

We've been well run financially so we can handle losses like this once in a while.

Or twice in two years. But we can't continue like this - we need to get promoted. As do Rangers.

[Jones28]

No surprises then, until we get promoted this will happen year on year.

[matty_f]

Brilliant that the first 3 comments are Hearts fans.

Not one of them with an understanding that "cheating" is when you bump the poppy man for his money.

They are thick as ****.

[O'Rourke3]

Brilliant that the first 3 comments are Hearts fans.

Not one of them with an understanding that "cheating" is when you bump the poppy man for his money.

To be fair to the poor we souls they confused the message that being in some debt - but fully intending to meet those commitments - was different from racking up the debt with no intention to ever pay the money back. So according to Yamlore we are cheats and about to hit Armageddon where all the financial chickens come home to roost....

[Since1875Hibs]

Turnover: £5.6m (£5.8m)

Staff costs: £3.4m (£3.7m)

Wages to turnover ratio: 61 per cent (64 per cent)

Operating loss: £800,000 (£800,000)

Loss before tax: £800,000 (£1.2m)

Player trading losses/gains: £nil (-£300,000)

Fixed assets: £25.4m (£25.6m)

Net assets: £19.1m (£14.9m)

Net debt: £2.4m (£5m)



Read more: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/rod-petrie-hibs-in-good-health-despite-800k-loss-1-3961858#ixzz3sxaX9TX4

[lord bunberry]

Brilliant that the first 3 comments are Hearts fans.

Not one of them with an understanding that "cheating" is when you bump the poppy man for his money.
You have to make allowances for these poor hearts fans, they don't really understand when it comes to things like this. They see a business that has made a loss and automatically assume that they won't be paying the money back. When your team has been bumping debts, robbing charities, having fake share issues, not paying players and basically financially doping for 30 years, it's all a lot of them know.
I would like to think that one day they will finally realise what they did was wrong, but I doubt they will.

[Onceinawhile]

Ms Dempster should have been the one announcing this imo. Just wait and watch as the 'petrie is still running the gaff' comments start up again.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ms Dempster should have been the one announcing this imo. Just wait and watch as the 'petrie is still running the gaff' comments start up again.
The Board are responsible for the accounts. He's Chair of the Board.

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[Jim44]

H1b5 are scotlands least successful club who can't pay their bills, pleasing very very pleasing indeed tick tock better hope the tyre man has his flu jab panic panic.

We have an operating loss because, after paying our bills, our income didn't cover our outgoings. Where does it say in the accounts that we didn't pay our bills and cheated like them? The inuendo in the Jambo's second comment is tasteless. We know what he wants for Christmas. What a classless lor they are. :rolleyes:

[Ronniekirk]

The Board are responsible for the accounts. He's Chair of the Board.

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Give me just a little more time. Chairman Of The Board Great song

[Pretty Boy]

H1b5 are scotlands least successful club who can't pay their bills, pleasing very very pleasing indeed tick tock better hope the tyre man has his flu jab panic panic.

We have an operating loss because, after paying our bills, our income didn't cover our outgoings. Where does it say in the accounts that we didn't pay our bills and cheated like them? The inuendo in the Jambo's second comment is tasteless. We know what he wants for Christmas. What a classless lor they are. :rolleyes:

The Hearts fans who comment on Hibs EEN stories are seriously disturbed weirdos. Just about every Hibs story attracts almost no comment from Hibs supporters and dozens from the same 7 or 8 Hearts fans.

I really don't get it, it's the behaviour of utter oddballs and people probably best ignored and avoided.

[green day]

Think whats most interesting about the overall story is that we (technically HSL) now own almost 20% of the shares.

Thats 20% more than the idiots across town own.

[Pretty Boy]

Think whats most interesting about the overall story is that we (technically HSL) now own almost 20% of the shares.

Thats 20% more than the idiots across town own.

I think the 20% includes both HSL and individual share purchases. Still a very good start though.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the 20% includes both HSL and individual share purchases. Still a very good start though.

Once HSL gets to 20%, we are entitled to a seat on the board.


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[Ozyhibby]

Those accounts are better than I expected.
They also show the damage being done by being in the championship.
Our turnover of £5.6m compares very badly with Aberdeen's of £13m. It's not long since both clubs had about the same turnover and could compete for the same players. [emoji19]


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[Jim44]

The Hearts fans who comment on Hibs EEN stories are seriously disturbed weirdos. Just about every Hibs story attracts almost no comment from Hibs supporters and dozens from the same 7 or 8 Hearts fans.

I really don't get it, it's the behaviour of utter oddballs and people probably best ignored and avoided.


As you'ld expect, they're making a huge deal of this news on KB, but the most enlightened and significant post is:


"Doesn't really look that bad, in all fairness."

[3pm]

Another couple of thousand of the gate would help!

[Bostonhibby]

H1b5 are scotlands least successful club who can't pay their bills, pleasing very very pleasing indeed tick tock better hope the tyre man has his flu jab panic panic.

We have an operating loss because, after paying our bills, our income didn't cover our outgoings. Where does it say in the accounts that we didn't pay our bills and cheated like them? The inuendo in the Jambo's second comment is tasteless. We know what he wants for Christmas. What a classless lor they are. :rolleyes:

This is the bit they will never get, you only have to rob charities of their money, bump endless creditors, go into admin and get deducted points when you don't pay your bills and trade illegally.

Nae shame. They are reporting losses too!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Look at the comment about us having our heads in the sand while preferring to talk about the myth of what happened at Tynie. Dearie me.

[whiskyhibby]

Think whats most interesting about the overall story is that we (technically HSL) now own almost 20% of the shares.

Thats 20% more than the idiots across town own.

Absolutely correct, to be honest I am a little surprised to see that figure, but as the HSL team said from the outset it's a slow burner and we are in it for the long term


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[Bostonhibby]

Look at the comment about us having our heads in the sand while preferring to talk about the myth of what happened at Tynie. Dearie me.
That'll be the myth that is a matter of public record as a result of their own decision to go into administration and draw up their own creditors list.

I'd prefer if this attitude to reality did continue down gorgie way.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fairly sure, although not certain, that the £500k parachute payment is included in these figures. Rod mentions it, although it's not clear.

In other words, "trading" was actually at a loss of £1.3m.

[Lago]

Those accounts are better than I expected.
They also show the damage being done by being in the championship.
Our turnover of £5.6m compares very badly with Aberdeen's of £13m. It's not long since both clubs had about the same turnover and could compete for the same players. [emoji19]


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Promotion is a must this season.

[Geo_1875]

Those accounts are better than I expected.
They also show the damage being done by being in the championship.
Our turnover of £5.6m compares very badly with Aberdeen's of £13m. It's not long since both clubs had about the same turnover and could compete for the same players. [emoji19]


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Not really comparable as they had a great season finishing second in the premier league. When they have a mediocre/poor season their turnover drops as well.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Not really comparable as they had a great season finishing second in the premier league. When they have a mediocre/poor season their turnover drops as well.

That's the point.

[Ozyhibby]

Not really comparable as they had a great season finishing second in the premier league. When they have a mediocre/poor season their turnover drops as well.

That's what I said. It's time we started having good seasons.


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[Wheat Hound]

So our debt is halved despite an operating loss and the Hertz think that is cause for concern?! 😂

[NAE NOOKIE]

I know little about accounts and stuff, but enough to know 800K is a reasonable hole. Not disastrous, but not brilliant either.

It shows the importance of getting promoted. But if it comes to it we do have a few players who are worth a few bob, Cummings and McGinn for sure. Heaven forbid it should come to that though. One thing is evident, if we had dropped prices to £18 to get in the deficit would probably have been bigger. As it is I doubt we break even on the games we play in early cup rounds where we charge £15.

In the position we are in at the moment cup runs are a big deal financially. If we can get through what is clearly going to be a mega tough game against St Johnston a cup final would make a reasonable dent in that 800K ....... winning it would probably wipe it out.

As for what the Yams have to say. That's like getting a lecture on celibacy from Charlie Sheen, as we all know they don't do irony.

[Rougier45]

Instead of even looking at hearts -we should be looking at the success story -Aberdeen turnover 13 million -how have they managed that -it surely isn't because of attendances -we are poorly run -never had turnover above 10 million -even when Sky was pumping in the money -commercially we have been underperforming for years .

6mn in Debt to BOS written off -for provably less than 2 million and we still have an 5mn interest free loan -.

Petrie should resign .

[brog]

Those accounts are better than I expected.
They also show the damage being done by being in the championship.
Our turnover of £5.6m compares very badly with Aberdeen's of £13m. It's not long since both clubs had about the same turnover and could compete for the same players. [emoji19]


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I don't think Don's a/c's are out yet but last year's turnover was £11.1m & that was an exceptional year. League cup winners, 3rd in league etc. I agree though that our numbers need to increase.

[Andy74]

Instead of even looking at hearts -we should be looking at the success story -Aberdeen turnover 13 million -how have they managed that -it surely isn't because of attendances -we are poorly run -never had turnover above 10 million -even when Sky was pumping in the money -commercially we have been underperforming for years .

6mn in Debt to BOS written off -for provably less than 2 million and we still have an 5mn interest free loan -.

Petrie should resign .

The details about the loan aren't right though are they? The holding compnay ended up with a debt pretty much equivalent to the whole bank debt and the debt they were due anyway.

For the club to end up with a debt of half what we were actually due, on an interest free basis that surely is something that the board should be applauded for?

[Ozyhibby]

The details about the loan aren't right though are they? The holding compnay ended up with a debt pretty much equivalent to the whole bank debt and the debt they were due anyway.

For the club to end up with a debt of half what we were actually due, on an interest free basis that surely is something that the board should be applauded for?

The debt restructure was undoubtedly a good deal for the club. The debt as we speak will now be £4.5m as the first payment was made in August.
This does not let the board of the hook though. Their poor management has cost and continues to cost the club many millions of pounds.


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[Rougier45]

The debt restructure was undoubtedly a good deal for the club. The debt as we speak will now be £4.5m as the first payment was made in August.
This does not let the board of the hook though. Their poor management has cost and continues to cost the club many millions of pounds.


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I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

[Mr White]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

Don't think too hard now, probably best to stick to guessing :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

... based on?

[Andy74]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

You can see what total debt reached the holding company though before they wrote it off/swapped it for equity - so if the bank wrote it off why did it reach the holding company?

[Rougier45]

... based on?


(rp/TF
Based on my dealing with the banking sectors(in particular BOS) -and how amenable (desperate) they have been to offload debts-especially football debt-for a whole host of reasons -I may be wrong at 80% but not by much -they(RP/TF) saw it as a great opportunity to package up the debt and it looks very positive to the layman -but peel back the layers and it was the owners that gained most from the write off .

[Andy74]

(rp/TF
Based on my dealing with the banking sectors(in particular BOS) -and how amenable (desperate) they have been to offload debts-especially football debt-for a whole host of reasons -I may be wrong at 80% but not by much -they(RP/TF) saw it as a great opportunity to package up the debt and it looks very positive to the layman -but peel back the layers and it was the owners that gained most from the write off .

Banks aren't desperate to offload good debt that is likely to be paid back though - and generally banks are keen to have debt repaid and recovered instead of written off.

The impact of capital rules on the type of debt is too negligible here to have been a factor.

Anyway, that is all based on guesswork as to what the bank was thinking - we have the amount showing almost in full with the holding company - how is that?

[BSEJVT]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

Oh Christ

The village idiot is back

:troll:

[green day]

Oh Christ

The village idiot is back

:troll:

He is a tad obvious, eh?

Must have finished his Evening News fishing posts for the day and decided to pop over to .Net

I forgot to put him on ignore after his last nonsense about STF / LD share issue stuff, wont make the same mistake this time.

[Eric]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

You are obviously in the know! So how much BOS did write off - that is if anything?

[JeMeSouviens]

All things considered, these look pretty good, no? :dunno:

Obviously we need to get back to the top league sooner rather than later but could've been a lot worse.

I agree it should've been an LD announcement though. Petrie should be locked up in a cupboard for the forseeable. :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

All things considered, these look pretty good, no? :dunno:

Obviously we need to get back to the top league sooner rather than later but could've been a lot worse.

I agree it should've been an LD announcement though. Petrie should be locked up in a cupboard for the forseeable. :rolleyes:

As noted above this is the one main thing along with the AGM where it is more appropriate to be presented by the Chairman on behalf of the Board.

[seanshow]

So we are racking up debt at 10% the rate of sevco (£8M) p/a
... and yet level with them on points in the championship, what a tragedy!

Well done, RP,LD,AS et al :greengrin

[Bad Martini]

Am not planning to feed the troll as frankly, that's stone radgeness on stilts.

I will say this; those accounts could look far worse. They could look a bit better but for once, in the relative recent past (as in lets not dig up the **** ups from various people on the board, namely petrie but others too, over the last 15 years), relatively recently speaking, the most recent past has been spot on.

Why?

We are out the top league for the second season. Our debt is halved. We are still attracting decent players and our recent form is the best in years and relatively speaking, very very good. Add to that we have skelped a number of teams and beaten ALL in front of us including rangers, the sheep and dundee utd and not looking bad with it, we are doing well.

Yes, stating the eye-wateringly painfully ****ing obvious we are still in the championship....but we are looking infinitely better now on and off the pitch in most every respect than we did three years ago.

Whilst not feeding the troll, we must laugh...STF - a man with hundreds of millions of pounds (who has given away more than Hibs will ever be worth in all our lifetime's collectively) is sneaking around, doing funny wee deals and looking to shaft the club in (any) way. ****ing brightened my day right up....utterly radge.:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:aok :

...I wont even dignify the muppets over the road with air time; profit requires one to pay tax, tax is bad, profit is bad, loses are good type thinking not needed just now...:cb

[Ozyhibby]

(rp/TF
Based on my dealing with the banking sectors(in particular BOS) -and how amenable (desperate) they have been to offload debts-especially football debt-for a whole host of reasons -I may be wrong at 80% but not by much -they(RP/TF) saw it as a great opportunity to package up the debt and it looks very positive to the layman -but peel back the layers and it was the owners that gained most from the write off .

We own 20% and rising of the club so it's good for us, no?


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[CropleyWasGod]

(rp/TF
Based on my dealing with the banking sectors(in particular BOS) -and how amenable (desperate) they have been to offload debts-especially football debt-for a whole host of reasons -I may be wrong at 80% but not by much -they(RP/TF) saw it as a great opportunity to package up the debt and it looks very positive to the layman -but peel back the layers and it was the owners that gained most from the write off .

The debt was secured.

[hibs0666]

I've done a quick comparison with the yaks.

On the P&L, despite having a turnover £1.4million higher than ours they still managed to record a loss that was £50K higher than ours. The main reason for this is that they needed to spend a lot of cash on essential repairs. They also spend £400K more than us on salaries.

Bigger differences are apparent on the balance sheet. Our fixed assets (stadium and East Mains) is worth £25M, reflecting the investments made over the years. Budge's Meadow on the other hand is worth only £7M. Despite the heavy investments our net debt position is only £800K greater than theirs.

[bigwheel]

Decent results considering our position - not unexpected ...certainly not ones we could afford to repeat for a few more years - we really just get up this season

On a related point , how on earth did Aberdeen manage a 13M income - that's pretty impressive . Even in the Sky hey days we never got near a 13M revenue figure.


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[zolliehibs]

Not really comparable as they had a great season finishing second in the premier league. When they have a mediocre/poor season their turnover drops as well.

We should also bear in mind that we have been outsourcing certain operations, like hospitality and the club shop. This will limit both turnover and cost with the aim of improving gross margin; I don't know if Aberdeen do the same, but if they don't, the turnover figures shouldn't be deemed to be as important as the respective bottom line figures.

[ano hibby]

Is the parachute payment a 1-off or do we get a reduced amount this year..or God forbid next year..?

[Ringothedog]

Decent results considering our position - not unexpected ...certainly not ones we could afford to repeat for a few more years - we really just get up this season

On a related point , how on earth did Aberdeen manage a 13M income - that's pretty impressive . Even in the Sky hey days we never got near a 13M revenue figure.


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Their turnover was just over £11m, they won the league cup, reached the semis of the SC, finished 2nd in the league and their average crowd went up from 9000 to 12000. A very successful season for them both on and off the park, something we should be aspiring to.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is the parachute payment a 1-off or do we get a reduced amount this year..or God forbid next year..?

It's £250k this season.

[Rougier45]

The debt was secured.

then why write of anything ?

-would be good if they confirmed -but they wont .

all would be forgiven if we where performing commercially -how can Aberdeen turnover 13mn -that's incredible -why are we not doing better -who gives a toss about hearts and Rangers instead of comparing ourselves against the dregs -we need to look at Aberdeen and work out what they are doing that we are not ...

[Smartie]

Apologies, I'm aware that this may be a daft point.

How much is promotion worth to us and why would this have a major effect on our accounts?

Prize money for position finished.
Away supports every week (debatable that this would be much better - we had big away supports from Rangers and Hearts last season. Ross County, Hamilton Accies and St Johnstone won't bring many/any more than the likes of St Mirren, morton or Falkirk).
Upturn in home gates. Some fans are staying away because of the league we're in.
More from the TV deals (?)



I'm not convinced we would get a lot more fans to see us loiter around the middle (or bottom) of the Premier League than winning every week in the First Division.

If we were to keep our progress going and we were sitting in the top 4 or 5 then I could see it being a different story.

[CropleyWasGod]

then why write of anything ?

-would be good if they confirmed -but they wont .

all would be forgiven if we where performing commercially -how can Aberdeen turnover 13mn -that's incredible -why are we not doing better -who gives a toss about hearts and Rangers instead of comparing ourselves against the dregs -we need to look at Aberdeen and work out what they are doing that we are not ...

See above re catering and the likes. Turnover isn't the be-all and end-all.

[son of haggart]

We should also bear in mind that we have been outsourcing certain operations, like hospitality and the club shop. This will limit both turnover and cost with the aim of improving gross margin; I don't know if Aberdeen do the same, but if they don't, the turnover figures shouldn't be deemed to be as important as the respective bottom line figures.

Aberdeen's turnover includes in house retailing etc of around £2m Seems an incredible amount from their club shop so I am guessing that includes all in house catering etc. There is a useful quote here:


"The overall turnover increased by £1.919 million from £11.158 million to £13.077 million,which is a record for the Club, with the previous highest turnover of £12.869 million being achieved in the 2007-8 season when we reached the knockout stages of the UEFA Cup. The Club Shop also achieved a record income of £2.086 million

"Wages increased from £6.084 million to £6.644 million as a direct result of much higher performance bonuses being paid to the playing and management staff and an investment in the overall quality of the playing squad. The wages to turnover ratio has dropped from 55% to 51% which is excellent when compared with many other clubs.

"Having reached agreement with the Bank and certain creditors to bring about a reduction of the Club's net debt, the operating profit for the period rose from £34,000 to £509,000 which allied to the reduction in interest charges and facility charges, puts the Club in an excellent position going forward."

Chairman Stewart Milne added. "At last year's Annual General Meeting, the refinancing of the Club's debt was formally approved, enabling £14.493 million to be moved to Shareholders' Funds and allowing the Club to trade for the first time in many years without the burden of debt and regular interest and capital payments. The consequent strengthening of the balance sheet has put us in a better position to deliver the much sought-after dedicated training facilities and also a new AFC stadium."

[brog]

then why write of anything ?

-would be good if they confirmed -but they wont .

all would be forgiven if we where performing commercially -how can Aberdeen turnover 13mn -that's incredible -why are we not doing better -who gives a toss about hearts and Rangers instead of comparing ourselves against the dregs -we need to look at Aberdeen and work out what they are doing that we are not ...

It would be incredible but its not true! It's just over £11m, still good but an exceptional year.

[Andy74]

then why write of anything ?

-would be good if they confirmed -but they wont .

all would be forgiven if we where performing commercially -how can Aberdeen turnover 13mn -that's incredible -why are we not doing better -who gives a toss about hearts and Rangers instead of comparing ourselves against the dregs -we need to look at Aberdeen and work out what they are doing that we are not ...

Well exactly, that's why the bank would not have written off much if anyhting.

The write off was done by the holding company, and as you really know deep down, that means that on top of allowing his overall holding to be substantially diluted by the share offer Sir Tom has basically taken this on and then written half off it off.

So, quite the opposite of what you seem to think the owner is up to.

[Ozyhibby]

While turnover is obviously not everything, the fact that they can afford a wage bill of £6.6m compared to our £3.4m tells us that we have a long way to go.
How much a club spend on wages is the biggest indicator in how it will perform on the park. In this respect, the board are spending less than our two closest rivals (Aberdeen and Hearts). They need to find a way of closing this gap.


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[CropleyWasGod]

While turnover is obviously not everything, the fact that they can afford a wage bill of £6.6m compared to our £3.4m tells us that we have a long way to go.
How much a club spend on wages is the biggest indicator in how it will perform on the park. In this respect, the board are spending less than our two closest rivals (Aberdeen and Hearts). They need to find a way of closing this gap.


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Don't forget that a part of their wages will be spent on the activities that we contract out. Aberdeen, IIRC, also pay executive staff for things that we do at Board level. Not sure about Hearts in that respect.

[truehibernian]

Not reaching the Scottish Cup final was a right sore one financially too.

[brog]

It would be incredible but its not true! It's just over £11m, still good but an exceptional year.

Apologies, it was £13m, I had 2014 a/c's. As others have said however we're comparing apples & oranges here & turnover as a sole metric is pretty meaningless. It was also Sheep's highest turnover year ever & IIRC was about £6m higher than Yams who had a "sell out" every week!

[Caversham Green]

I cant agree with this -unless we know how much the BOS wrote off -which I would guess at being around 80%

I think we where shafted with the 5million loan

sack the board :cb

Are you suggesting that other Scottish football clubs received a discount of 80% for paying off their bank loans without entering administration?

If so, which ones?

[Ozyhibby]

Don't forget that a part of their wages will be spent on the activities that we contract out. Aberdeen, IIRC, also pay executive staff for things that we do at Board level. Not sure about Hearts in that respect.

I believe that Hearts have a particularly poor retail deal that was signed shortly before admin when they were desperate for cash. Same with their hospitality contract. They are patiently waiting for both deals to end.
On the issue of sub contracting out, it's obviously necessary in certain areas but I feel that the level we have contributed to the disconnect fans had from the club. It is possible for a season ticket holder to go a whole season without coming into contact with anyone employed by the club. That can't be healthy.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I believe that Hearts have a particularly poor retail deal that was signed shortly before admin when they were desperate for cash. Same with their hospitality contract. They are patiently waiting for both deals to end.
On the issue of sub contracting out, it's obviously necessary in certain areas but I feel that the level we have contributed to the disconnect fans had from the club. It is possible for a season ticket holder to go a whole season without coming into contact with anyone employed by the club. That can't be healthy.


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Yeah, I get that, and agree with you up to a point.

However, my point was more about the pitfalls of comparing the accounts of different clubs, when they are often run in different ways.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not reaching the Scottish Cup final was a right sore one financially too.

Actually, the Cup run was a bonus that was unforeseen.

If the Board are getting chastised for the loss, maybe we should congratulate them on the Cup bonus. :cb

[truehibernian]

Actually, the Cup run was a bonus that was unforeseen.

If the Board are getting chastised for the loss, maybe we should congratulate them on the Cup bonus. :cb

To be honest the whole club are in the fans good books - this is the first Hibernian team in 5 years where we have assets in the players - Cummings, Malonga, McGeouch, McGinn, Keatings......not wanting them to go of course but there's real value in them should teams bid for them.

The cup final (and of course a win) would have been a tremendous boost financially - the club have done really well to attract the players we have to be honest.

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah, I get that, and agree with you up to a point.

However, my point was more about the pitfalls of comparing the accounts of different clubs, when they are often run in different ways.

I understand that. It would be good if the club could explain to the stakeholders why they think our way is a better model than Aberdeen's and why their model appears to be delivering better on the park.


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[Rougier45]

See above re catering and the likes. Turnover isn't the be-all and end-all.

Agree but 13 million against out 5.6 incredible - we where 10 in our heyday its big eck:confused:

[Rougier45]

Well exactly, that's why the bank would not have written off much if anyhting.

The write off was done by the holding company, and as you really know deep down, that means that on top of allowing his overall holding to be substantially diluted by the share offer Sir Tom has basically taken this on and then written half off it off.

So, quite the opposite of what you seem to think the owner is up to.

Andy , we are both at opposite ends of the spectrum I trust no one - you believe Sir T is altruistic - not for me

[Rougier45]

While turnover is obviously not everything, the fact that they can afford a wage bill of £6.6m compared to our £3.4m tells us that we have a long way to go.
How much a club spend on wages is the biggest indicator in how it will perform on the park. In this respect, the board are spending less than our two closest rivals (Aberdeen and Hearts). They need to find a way of closing this gap.


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This is getting down to it - 6.6mn in salaries - were excited because we out perform hearts and gers both ran into the ground by criminals - we are run by Saint sorry sir toms right hand man and we are a mess - calderwood - yogi - butcher ect ect and a turnover that Is 60% lower than the sheep - we are failing from top to bottom - yet we get a hard on for what 2nd in the chumpionship

[CropleyWasGod]

This is getting down to it - 6.6mn in salaries - were excited because we out perform hearts and gers both ran into the ground by criminals - we are run by Saint sorry sir toms right hand man and we are a mess - calderwood - yogi - butcher ect ect and a turnover that Is 60% lower than the sheep - we are failing from top to bottom - yet we get a hard on for what 2nd in the chumpionship

No we're not.

[marinello59]

This is getting down to it - 6.6mn in salaries - were excited because we out perform hearts and gers both ran into the ground by criminals - we are run by Saint sorry sir toms right hand man and we are a mess - calderwood - yogi - butcher ect ect and a turnover that Is 60% lower than the sheep - we are failing from top to bottom - yet we get a hard on for what 2nd in the chumpionship

Want to stop the trolling?

[Caversham Green]

Agree but 13 million against out 5.6 incredible - we where 10 in our heyday its big eck:confused:

Their turnover includes £4m+ from commercial activities which Hibs have broadly outsourced. Their income increased by more than £1m from finishing second - take those number out of the equation and their core turnover was £8m for a very successful year. Our most successful year of recent times produced a turnover of £9.8m (under Mowbray/Collins). That tells us (IMO) That Hibs and Aberdeen are broadly comparable clubs, but the Dons are are in the ascendancy for the time being. It also shows the ridiculous difference between finishing second and third in the top flight in Scotland - I wonder how that could have happened.

However, if Aberdeen really got the 80% debt forgiveness that you have insinuated in earlier posts, their bottom line would have been an operating loss somewhere north of £10m.

[Rougier45]

No we're not.


Point taken- there are some good posters on here dashing bob - Sergei - your self but there are also lots of eejits who get abusuve if anyone questions certain peoples agendas

[Rougier45]

Their turnover includes £4m+ from commercial activities which Hibs have broadly outsourced. Their income increased by more than £1m from finishing second - take those number out of the equation and their core turnover was £8m for a very successful year. Our most successful year of recent times produced a turnover of £9.8m (under Mowbray/Collins). That tells us (IMO) That Hibs and Aberdeen are broadly comparable clubs, but the Dons are are in the ascendancy for the time being. It also shows the ridiculous difference between finishing second and third in the top flight in Scotland - I wonder how that could have happened.

However, if Aberdeen really got the 80% debt forgiveness that you have insinuated in earlier posts, their bottom line would have been an operating loss somewhere north of £10m.

I'm insinuating both Aberdeen and hibs got incredible write offs - yet it not helped us at all :confused:

[Caversham Green]

I'm insinuating both Aberdeen and hibs got incredible write offs - yet it not helped us at all :confused:

So how much do you think Aberdeen got?

[Rougier45]

So how much do you think Aberdeen got?

We live in exceptional times no bank wants to close a football team it's far too emotional - after rangers all bets where off - lose the debt - do whatever it takes - that was the mantra

[BSEJVT]

Point taken- there are some good posters on here dashing bob - Sergei - your self but there are also lots of eejits who get abusuve if anyone questions certain peoples agendas

Touche

There are certain eejits on here who persist in peddling their own agenda despite the fact that it flies in the face of reason and everything that is known.

I'll ask again

Exactly what has STF done that makes you think he is ripping the pish out of Hibs and its supporters?

What previous personal or business history does he have that makes that a viable concern?

Your problem like many is that because he is behaving in a way you wouldn't that it makes you suspicious.

I have yet to see one shred of evidence to support your assertions or those made by people like you.

Give it a rest, its getting boring.

[Caversham Green]

We live in exceptional times no bank wants to close a football team it's far too emotional - after rangers all bets where off - lose the debt - do whatever it takes - that was the mantra

So how much do you think Aberdeen got?

[Treadstone]

Guess work.
Get corrected.
Jump more sharks.
Avoid answering question.

[Kaiser1962]

Agree but 13 million against out 5.6 incredible - we where 10 in our heyday its big eck:confused:£9.8m in 2006-2007 (Mowbray and a cup win) Don't think we have ever topped ten. Hearts have done it twice at £10.3m (both in 05-06 and 06-07) which was the first two years of Romanov's spending so even with huge investment they were still considerably short of Aberdeen's recent figures.

[BSEJVT]

We live in exceptional times no bank wants to close a football team it's far too emotional - after rangers all bets where off - lose the debt - do whatever it takes - that was the mantra

What utter horse****

No-one wants to close a football team?

Gretna?

Yet the same bank pulled the plug on Park Hampers weeks before Christmas.

Yet all banks close down companies that employ people and throw them on the dole

What Bos were doing is clearing up the mess left by Gavin Masterton of ex Dunfermline shame who financed at one point the entire SPL excluding Celtic.

The debts had no chance of getting repaid and were tying up capital, they decided to cut their losses and get out and take x p in the £

x depended on who sat behind the debt

The better the guy holding the debt the les the discount, its purely a commercial decision.

Do you think it coincidental that we have moved away from Bos to Santander?

[Ronniekirk]

This is getting down to it - 6.6mn in salaries - were excited because we out perform hearts and gers both ran into the ground by criminals - we are run by Saint sorry sir toms right hand man and we are a mess - calderwood - yogi - butcher ect ect and a turnover that Is 60% lower than the sheep - we are failing from top to bottom - yet we get a hard on for what 2nd in the chumpionship
You have to be having a laugh .
We have since Dempster came in we completely Transformed the Club from Top to Bottom ,and continue to fine tune things as we go along .Granted a second year in the Championship with a stronger Rangers than last season ,is not something we wanted and has impacted on attendances given we have opted to keep prices high .
But when you look at the players we have , I think Stubbs has done well .
We have reduced Debt and an opportunity to get to a Leauge Cup Final And hopefully have a good run in the Scottish Cup
We are now challenging Rangers and hopefully we keep this up and Attendances creep up heading into the Festive period ,and with that increased sales of
Merchandise .
Fans now have 19 % shareholding in the Club and this will grow as we push for promotion .

Yes we have a long way to go ,but we beat Aberdeen recently so thier improved financial position didn't give them the advantage that night .
You seem determined to try and accentuate the negatives at every turn ,when others are doing their bit to talk us up ,and back the club in any way they can .

[green&left]

While turnover is obviously not everything, the fact that they can afford a wage bill of £6.6m compared to our £3.4m tells us that we have a long way to go.
How much a club spend on wages is the biggest indicator in how it will perform on the park. In this respect, the board are spending less than our two closest rivals (Aberdeen and Hearts). They need to find a way of closing this gap.


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Not really. I'd imagine our wage bill was more under Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher and compared to now it was f.......g dross!

[Pete]

Guess work.
Get corrected.
Jump more sharks.
Avoid answering question.

...and have a disrespectful pop at SIR Tom.

I had wondered were, sorry, where hands on hibs and their sympathisers had been hiding.

[greenginger]

I've not see Aberdeen's 2015 accounts but 2 figure in their 2014 accounts stand out.

Broadcast rights £ 2.133 million - a couple of good home Euro league games.

Commercial income £ 4.057 million - A single team in a City with a lot of wealth generating businesses.

[green&left]

So how much do you think Aberdeen got?

They're now debt free are they not? Some offshore engineering business husband and wife gave them £15m did they not!?

[Caversham Green]

They're now debt free are they not? Some offshore engineering business husband and wife gave them £15m did they not!?

Yes, I think they are debt free - the husband and wife paid off their debt subject (presumably) to a discount for early settlement. My question to Hessenhibee was how much he thought that discount was as his earlier posts suggested that it was 80%, or £11.2m in cash terms. I don't think it was anywhere near that amount.

[Andy74]

Andy , we are both at opposite ends of the spectrum I trust no one - you believe Sir T is altruistic - not for me

No I believe what I can see from the transactions.

[Rougier45]

You have to be having a laugh .
We have since Dempster came in we completely Transformed the Club from Top to Bottom ,and continue to fine tune things as we go along .Granted a second year in the Championship with a stronger Rangers than last season ,is not something we wanted and has impacted on attendances given we have opted to keep prices high .
But when you look at the players we have , I think Stubbs has done well .
We have reduced Debt and an opportunity to get to a Leauge Cup Final And hopefully have a good run in the Scottish Cup
We are now challenging Rangers and hopefully we keep this up and Attendances creep up heading into the Festive period ,and with that increased sales of
Merchandise .
Fans now have 19 % shareholding in the Club and this will grow as we push for promotion .

Yes we have a long way to go ,but we beat Aberdeen recently so thier improved financial position didn't give them the advantage that night .
You seem determined to try and accentuate the negatives at every turn ,when others are doing their bit to talk us up ,and back the club in any way they can .


Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done

[bigwheel]

No I believe what I can see from the transactions.


Unless you have insider knowledge, the terms of the termination of the bank facility have not been made public - so it is not clear to anyone outside the deal what the value was for Hibs (or Farmer) in that transaction.

[Andy74]

Unless you have insider knowledge, the terms of the termination of the bank facility have not been made public - so it is not clear to anyone outside the deal what the value was for Hibs (or Farmer) in that transaction.

The terms haven't but you can see the debt figure the holding company ended up with.

[green day]

Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done

Took you off ignore for a minute -

So, what are you questioning with the share issue? We own almost 20% between shareholders and HSL, all the money went to playing budget - NONE OF IT WENT TO FARMER - what is it you dont get????

As to the write off, as has been noted earlier in the thread, Farmer is an incredibly wealthy man who makes the likes of Budge look like a pauper. What on earth would this man, practically canonised by the Catholic church for his charity work, and apparently all round good egg have to achieve by ripping off Hibs????

Dont you think he MIGHT have thought it was a bad idea to so something which might have undone all the good PR he has built up over the years?

Nah, he probably ripped us off for what is probably pocket change for him??

The problem with the internet is that any muppet with a phone or laptop can post an opinion which can be latched on as fact by other muppets - usually the people on the receiving end of this type of rumour have no right to reply or (as is probably the case with Farmer) cant be bothered dignifying it with a response.

[Jack]

I believe that Hearts have a particularly poor retail deal that was signed shortly before admin when they were desperate for cash. Same with their hospitality contract. They are patiently waiting for both deals to end.
On the issue of sub contracting out, it's obviously necessary in certain areas but I feel that the level we have contributed to the disconnect fans had from the club. It is possible for a season ticket holder to go a whole season without coming into contact with anyone employed by the club. That can't be healthy.


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Something I said at Working Together meetings for years! To much of Hibs was a folder on a shelf in some corporate HQ.

We've seen part of the catering come in house and I think that's just the start. LD in one of her earliest statements mentioned bringing as much in house as she could.

There's still some way to go, ending contracts could mean the difference between John McGinn being or not being a Hibs player, making them more Hibby like the concourse catering and more influence in the shop is a decent start.

IMO :-)

[Jack]

Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done

The thought of Rod failing on the park, in shorts playing the dotthebartman1 role fills me with the same comic farce as your posts!

[NAE NOOKIE]

This is getting down to it - 6.6mn in salaries - were excited because we out perform hearts and gers both ran into the ground by criminals - we are run by Saint sorry sir toms right hand man and we are a mess - calderwood - yogi - butcher ect ect and a turnover that Is 60% lower than the sheep - we are failing from top to bottom - yet we get a hard on for what 2nd in the chumpionship

If that had read 'we failed from top to bottom prior to relegation' you would have been right.

Since being relegated so much has changed at Easter Road its practically a different club. If you are now going to stick the boot in over the latest accounts and use a premier league club who had their best season in years and were gifted millions by a rich fan to do it, how do you expect anybody to take you seriously?

We are not failing from top to bottom at all, we are doing everything in our power to get back to the Premiership on and off the park and going about it the right way as far as I can see.

Your claim ( made in the most derisory fashion ) that folk are getting excited about being 2nd in the Championship shows what an utter troll you are. Unless you hadn't noticed we are in the Championship, so its the only league we can get excited about for now. In your eyes that clearly somehow translates to accepting mediocrity, which is utter nonsense. A few weeks ago we trailed the Huns by 8 points, which could have been 11 if we had lost to them at ER .... now all they have to show is a game in hand with a Hibs team on a 14 game unbeaten run breathing down their neck.

No that's not winning anything .... but at this moment in time its worthy of praise and has at least given the fans some reason to hope that we can win the league.

At what point will you be prepared to admit that the club is at least trying to turn things around from the disaster of the last 8 years and give some credit to the people who are doing their best to make it happen ..... or are you just happy to moan about everything in the most negative way possible until our first group game in the Champions League?

Oh ... PS

I have ripped into STF many times in the past for his failure to put money into the playing side of the club and for his blind loyalty to RP in spite of the obvious failings of the man to realise that to succeed the club has to do better ON the park.

But to suggest STF is ripping Hibs off is laughable ..... Farmer is many things, but dishonest isn't one of them.

[bigwheel]

The terms haven't but you can see the debt figure the holding company ended up with.


That could be completely independent of the bank transaction.

[Tyler Durden]

The terms haven't but you can see the debt figure the holding company ended up with.

The figure they ended up with isnt all that relevant. The holdco buy the bank debt and then "write off" whatever they choose.

Do you really think STF and Petrie would pay anywhere near the full amount? What do you think they were negotiating for months?

[Ozyhibby]

Much as I think Rod Petrie is a disgrace, on the debt right off, the only important figure is that we used to owe nearly £10m and it came down to £5m. That seems like a good deal to me.


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[brog]

I've noticed Hessenhibee's grammar, or lack of, is very similar to that of the late lamented Sydney! Just saying! :wink:

[Smartie]

Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done

And up to this point Aberdeen have won…………..?

Both clubs are doing the right things at present and long-term will reap the rewards if they manage to keep doing so.

We won't gain anything by lambasting Hibs for the fact that they started doing the right things from a far worse starting position than the Dons and are therefore still in a worse position.

[Bostonhibby]

...and have a disrespectful pop at SIR Tom.

I had wondered were, sorry, where hands on hibs and their sympathisers had been hiding.
Agree, or as mentioned on another similar thread what happened to Sidney?[emoji6]

[Treadstone]

I've noticed Hessenhibee's grammar, or lack of, is very similar to that of the late lamented Sydney! Just saying! :wink:

His 'dealings' with the banking sector may not be at too high a level.

[Malthibby]

Agree, or as mentioned on another similar thread what happened to Sidney?[emoji6]

Sidney = Yisden, sounds like Hessen?
Long live STF.
GG

[TrinityHibs]

Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done

Aberdeen are not a great example of how to run a club. They need a new ground. Milne thinks it will cost £40M. How do they fund it?

Sell Pitoddrie for £18M. Wait a minute the property market in Aberdeen is burst
Get some oil guys to invest. Yup you got it they are not there
Name the stands . Aye very good
Get a £10 M loan mmmmm
So of the £40M they need they've got £8M'ish for Pitoddrie mibbees and nothing else.

Great model but you keep talking them up.

[Caversham Green]

The figure they ended up with isnt all that relevant. The holdco buy the bank debt and then "write off" whatever they choose.

Do you really think STF and Petrie would pay anywhere near the full amount? What do you think they were negotiating for months?

I think we should be able to make a decent stab at the amounts involved once the holding company accounts are available but that is unlikely to be before next spring. However, as a guide, if they got a similar deal to Dundee Utd (which was a very good deal IMO, but nowhere near 80%) then STF (and Rod) will have paid out around £1m to seal the deal.

My own feeling is that they paid a substantial amount more than that but time will tell.

[Bostonhibby]

Aberdeen are not a great example of how to run a club. They need a new ground. Milne thinks it will cost £40M. How do they fund it?

Sell Pitoddrie for £18M. Wait a minute the property market in Aberdeen is burst
Get some oil guys to invest. Yup you got it they are not there
Name the stands . Aye very good
Get a £10 M loan mmmmm
So of the £40M they need they've got £8M'ish for Pitoddrie mibbees and nothing else.

Great model but you keep talking them up.
Good point re the stadium - or they could fill a couple dozen boxes with plans for a megasuperhotelstadium for 400,000, get the council to pay for a feasibility study, keep the believers believing for as long as it takes to get them to hand over cash for non existent shares then go pop. Sorted.

Sound familiar?

[poolman]

Stubbs has done very well but is still. An Inexperienced manager and hadn't actually achieved anything yet - hopefully by May that will have changed - I am questioning the write off - the share issue and the continued support of rod Petrie who had failed hibs both on and off the park - that is all - sortu of if that pisses people of .aberdeen us a great example of what can be done


Spectacular fail

[Baldy Foghorn]

Aberdeen are not a great example of how to run a club. They need a new ground. Milne thinks it will cost £40M. How do they fund it?

Sell Pitoddrie for £18M. Wait a minute the property market in Aberdeen is burst
Get some oil guys to invest. Yup you got it they are not there
Name the stands . Aye very good
Get a £10 M loan mmmmm
So of the £40M they need they've got £8M'ish for Pitoddrie mibbees and nothing else.

Great model but you keep talking them up.

They have a ground which none of the stands are similar, and do they have training facilities like us?

Can't understand why Hessen is desperate to stick the boot in........

[marinello59]

They have a ground which none of the stands are similar, and do they have training facilities like us?

Can't understand why Hessen is desperate to stick the boot in........

They will have to take on debt to get their new stadium and it will also mean leaving Pittodrie for an out of town site which is not going down well with a large number of their fans. Last season was probably as good as it gets for them. It's downhill from here.

[Bostonhibby]

His 'dealings' with the banking sector may not be at too high a level.

:agree: I used to subcontract to a business owned by a well known Scottish bank, and when we were there after the regular staff had gone home there were some really good people working their butts off to get the place clean for the following morning.

They never pretended to know about the confidentiality clause bound arrangements of random football clubs though nor were they attention seekers / window lickers.

[PatHead]

I think we should be able to make a decent stab at the amounts involved once the holding company accounts are available but that is unlikely to be before next spring. However, as a guide, if they got a similar deal to Dundee Utd (which was a very good deal IMO, but nowhere near 80%) then STF (and Rod) will have paid out around £1m to seal the deal.

My own feeling is that they paid a substantial amount more than that but time will tell.

Did Dundee Utd not also have to give up a percentage of future transfer fees to the bank as part of the deal?

[Tyler Durden]

Did Dundee Utd not also have to give up a percentage of future transfer fees to the bank as part of the deal?

Yes they did. Wouldn't be an unreasonable question at the AGM to ask whether Hibs agreed to something similar although not sure they'd be prepared to answer.

At least we finally have some players who attract attention at last!

[Aldo]

You have to be having a laugh . We have since Dempster came in we completely Transformed the Club from Top to Bottom ,and continue to fine tune things as we go along .Granted a second year in the Championship with a stronger Rangers than last season ,is not something we wanted and has impacted on attendances given we have opted to keep prices high . But when you look at the players we have , I think Stubbs has done well . We have reduced Debt and an opportunity to get to a Leauge Cup Final And hopefully have a good run in the Scottish Cup We are now challenging Rangers and hopefully we keep this up and Attendances creep up heading into the Festive period ,and with that increased sales of Merchandise . Fans now have 19 % shareholding in the Club and this will grow as we push for promotion . Yes we have a long way to go ,but we beat Aberdeen recently so thier improved financial position didn't give them the advantage that night . You seem determined to try and accentuate the negatives at every turn ,when others are doing their bit to talk us up ,and back the club in any way they can .

Ronnie your wasting you time mate! I applaud your positive outlook Ronnie rightly so.

We were in decline for a long long time and we have a long way to go but at this moment in time the club is on the up yet there is always negativity.

STF has done more for this club than any other person yet there are those who question his motives.

Has he done a mad vlad by running up debts, not paying the bills or creditors, or ran off with both the ST and share monies (gullible fools) NOPE. He's stuck around through it all.

He does not In my eyes anyway deserved to be questioned about what he wants from the club. He has been part of this club for more than 20 years so surely he deserves a bit of respect NO?

[Caversham Green]

Did Dundee Utd not also have to give up a percentage of future transfer fees to the bank as part of the deal?

Yes and no. They paid an initial £1.4m with a potential further payment of £2.65m from transfer fees towards a debt of £4.7m. However they negotiated a final settlement of a further £1.4m in August of this year. I think that was after they had sold some of their players, but even if that was not the case their discount was about 40%. The original deal offered a whopping 12.5% discount if they sold enough players.


Yes they did. Wouldn't be an unreasonable question at the AGM to ask whether Hibs agreed to something similar although not sure they'd be prepared to answer.

At least we finally have some players who attract attention at last!

Any similar deal for Hibs will be disclosed in the accounts.

[Caversham Green]

Don't forget that a part of their wages will be spent on the activities that we contract out. Aberdeen, IIRC, also pay executive staff for things that we do at Board level. Not sure about Hearts in that respect.

:agree: Aberdeen had 116 staff in 2014, Hibs had 82.

[Thecat23]

**** Aberdeen.

**** Hearts.

**** Sevco.

I'm worried about my club, my clubs accounts, my clubs players and my clubs future.

For me we are moving forward in style now after a long time suffering pish. Petrie is still here I don't like it but hey ho I'm still behind all at Hibs because that's my club. Maybe in a couple of years people will be saying "we should do it the way Hibs done it."

[Jack]

Yes and no. They paid an initial £1.4m with a potential further payment of £2.65m from transfer fees towards a debt of £4.7m. However they negotiated a final settlement of a further £1.4m in August of this year. I think that was after they had sold some of their players, but even if that was not the case their discount was about 40%. The original deal offered a whopping 12.5% discount if they sold enough players.



Any similar deal for Hibs will be disclosed in the accounts.

Not a critical post coming up. ...

We've seen how selling players, I think under pressure from the bank, has worked for them. A shame really as they had something going.

Maybe the banks are evening up with celtc after shafting them circa sevcotime.

[Bostonhibby]

**** Aberdeen.

**** Hearts.

**** Sevco.

I'm worried about my club, my clubs accounts, my clubs players and my clubs future.

For me we are moving forward in style now after a long time suffering pish. Petrie is still here I don't like it but hey ho I'm still behind all at Hibs because that's my club. Maybe in a couple of years people will be saying "we should do it the way Hibs done it."

:top marks

Any thoughts hessenhibee :confused:

[Jack]

Ronnie your wasting you time mate! I applaud your positive outlook Ronnie rightly so.

We were in decline for a long long time and we have a long way to go but at this moment in time the club is on the up yet there is always negativity.

STF has done more for this club than any other person yet there are those who question his motives.

Has he done a mad vlad by running up debts, not paying the bills or creditors, or ran off with both the ST and share monies (gullible fools) NOPE. He's stuck around through it all.

He does not In my eyes anyway deserved to be questioned about what he wants from the club. He has been part of this club for more than 20 years so surely he deserves a bit of respect NO?

I appreciate what you're saying Aldo however IMO no one is above questioning.

Having said that there has to be a reasonable basis for that questioning and so far I can see there no reason to challenge the motives or working practices, at Hibs, as far as STF is concerned.

[Tyler Durden]

Not a critical post coming up. ...

We've seen how selling players, I think under pressure from the bank, has worked for them. A shame really as they had something going.

Maybe the banks are evening up with celtc after shafting them circa sevcotime.

I can't see your logic there. Firstly Utd weren't under pressure from the bank. And were they wrong to accept the offers made for their players? Something like £6m for Robertson, Armstrong, GMS and Ciftci? Arguably the Armstrong and GMS deal but most teams would do the same.

They are now debt free and fair enough, had a poor calendar year. But they won't get relegated and will settle back into being mid table which is punching their weight

[Caversham Green]

I can't see your logic there. Firstly Utd weren't under pressure from the bank. And were they wrong to accept the offers made for their players? Something like £6m for Robertson, Armstrong, GMS and Ciftci? Arguably the Armstrong and GMS deal but most teams would do the same.

They are now debt free and fair enough, had a poor calendar year. But they won't get relegated and will settle back into being mid table which is punching their weight

Time will tell whether they escape relegation but they certainly have a job on. Regardless, they're still paying less in wages than Hibs so any escape will not be down to financial management.

[Ronniekirk]

Ronnie your wasting you time mate! I applaud your positive outlook Ronnie rightly so.

We were in decline for a long long time and we have a long way to go but at this moment in time the club is on the up yet there is always negativity.

STF has done more for this club than any other person yet there are those who question his motives.

Has he done a mad vlad by running up debts, not paying the bills or creditors, or ran off with both the ST and share monies (gullible fools) NOPE. He's stuck around through it all.

He does not In my eyes anyway deserved to be questioned about what he wants from the club. He has been part of this club for more than 20 years so surely he deserves a bit of respect NO?

Your sounding like my Dad Aldo ,when he was alive ,always telling me I was wasting my time spending all that time and money supporting Hibs .i didn't listen to him and stuck with them There's a bit of Transference going on when Hessen Posts .:confused:

[Aldo]

Your sounding like my Dad Aldo ,when he was alive ,always telling me I was wasting my time spending all that time and money supporting Hibs .i didn't listen to him and stuck with them There's a bit of Transference going on when Hessen Posts .:confused:


Lol! Best waste of money ever then Ronnie! ;-)

[Aldo]

I appreciate what you're saying Aldo however IMO no one is above questioning. Having said that there has to be a reasonable basis for that questioning and so far I can see there no reason to challenge the motives or working practices, at Hibs, as far as STF is concerned.


I will agree with you on your point Jack.

[Tyler Durden]

Time will tell whether they escape relegation but they certainly have a job on. Regardless, they're still paying less in wages than Hibs so any escape will not be down to financial management.

There are obvious parallels with Hibs of 7-8 years ago as they've sold their best players and seemingly recruited quite poorly immediately after.

On the face of it, they've outperformed expectations for 3-4 years both on the field and with their player trading also. Forgetting the furore about McNamara's cut, they've made massive profits on Robertson, Ciftci and to a lesser extent GMS. I'd say they're been the model for the non OF teams to follow in recent years.

It's only natural that they now experience a downturn but it's hardly a dire situation they're in. As for their wage bill I'm sure it'll be in the top 6/7 which is about right

[Ronniekirk]

Lol! Best waste of money ever then Ronnie! ;-)

Yep although am sure my wife would probably concur with the old man on that one lol http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/f043e8154ef2335f854850522636c2ab.jpg
But money can't buy you moments like Above



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[grunt]

It's only natural that they now experience a downturn but it's hardly a dire situation they're in.
This is Dundee Utd we're talking about, right? The club that's currently bottom of the Scottish premiership by 7 points, with a goal difference twice as bad as their nearest rivals? With 1 win and 1 draw in the last 10 league games?

[Andy74]

The figure they ended up with isnt all that relevant. The holdco buy the bank debt and then "write off" whatever they choose.

Do you really think STF and Petrie would pay anywhere near the full amount? What do you think they were negotiating for months?

They swapped a particular amount for equity though.

I'm making up the numbers because I can't remember them exactly but debt to holding company was about £2m before transaction.

They swapped was it £4m or so for equity and £5m remains?

That means they took on about £7m more debt at some stage which about equals estimates of our bank debt.

I don't think we could have both the remaining debt and that swap if that debt wasn't an actual figure.

[Tyler Durden]

This is Dundee Utd we're talking about, right? The club that's currently bottom of the Scottish premiership by 7 points, with a goal difference twice as bad as their nearest rivals? With 1 win and 1 draw in the last 10 league games?

Yes.

Do you think they'll get relegated?

[Caversham Green]

Yes.

Do you think they'll get relegated?

They're in a worse position than Hibs were ever in prior to the appointment of Butcher.

I would also argue that their finances are also still more precarious than Hibs have been in the last decade and more.

[grunt]

Yes.

Do you think they'll get relegated?
Haha I don't know, and I'm not a betting man.
But if their situation isn't currently "dire" then I don't know what is. :)

[Tyler Durden]

Haha I don't know, and I'm not a betting man.
But if their situation isn't currently "dire" then I don't know what is. :)

I just think their squad is actually pretty decent and they'll turn it around soon.

The classic "too good to go down"....

[jgl07]

This is Dundee Utd we're talking about, right? The club that's currently bottom of the Scottish premiership by 7 points, with a goal difference twice as bad as their nearest rivals? With 1 win and 1 draw in the last 10 league games?
And Dundee United are easily the worst team I have seen visiting Easter Road this season.

If they don't go down, I would hate to see the team that does.

[PatHead]

And Dundee United are easily the worst team I have seen visiting Easter Road this season.

If they don't go down, I would hate to see the team that does.

Raise you Alloa. They were awful though.

[jgl07]

Raise you Alloa. They were awful though.
I missed that match.

[Jack]

I can't see your logic there. Firstly Utd weren't under pressure from the bank. And were they wrong to accept the offers made for their players? Something like £6m for Robertson, Armstrong, GMS and Ciftci? Arguably the Armstrong and GMS deal but most teams would do the same.

They are now debt free and fair enough, had a poor calendar year. But they won't get relegated and will settle back into being mid table which is punching their weight

I seem to remember at the time time that DU were basically forced into selling the players, any players, once a bid of a certain level came in and from that the bank got a share. It could have been internet gossip.

Whatever, they appear to have been between a rock and a hard place, with that place becoming worse with each result.

It's difficult to feel sorry for them. I find it difficult to feel sorry for any club in Scotland other than my own! It's ***** for the supporters though - if I could feel sorry for them.

[Thecat23]

Unless Utd add to the squad in Jan they are gone! In fact even if they do it may be too late. Not a happy dressing room up there I'm hearing!! TQM will prob know a lot more but from the sounds of it more than a couple wanting out asap.

Sound familiar anyone?

[CropleyWasGod]

We live in exceptional times no bank wants to close a football team it's far too emotional - after rangers all bets where off - lose the debt - do whatever it takes - that was the mantra


How much discount do you think Aberdeen got?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

They swapped a particular amount for equity though.

I'm making up the numbers because I can't remember them exactly but debt to holding company was about £2m before transaction.

They swapped was it £4m or so for equity and £5m remains?

That means they took on about £7m more debt at some stage which about equals estimates of our bank debt.

I don't think we could have both the remaining debt and that swap if that debt wasn't an actual figure.

Okay I've now read the accounts.

At July 2014 we owed the bank £6.3m. We also owed the holding company £3m.

By July 2015 the bank debt was cleared.

In 2015 the holding company purchased shares for a consideration of £4.5m. The proceeds were used to settle part of the intercompany debt.

A further £5m of debt is outstanding, now interest free.

So, total debt to the holding company during 2015 reached £9.5m when it was previously £3m.

I don't see any way the extra £6.5m was not what the holding company paid to the bank.

[Leithenhibby]

I know little about accounts and stuff, but enough to know 800K is a reasonable hole. Not disastrous, but not brilliant either.

It shows the importance of getting promoted. But if it comes to it we do have a few players who are worth a few bob, Cummings and McGinn for sure. Heaven forbid it should come to that though. One thing is evident, if we had dropped prices to £18 to get in the deficit would probably have been bigger. As it is I doubt we break even on the games we play in early cup rounds where we charge £15.

In the position we are in at the moment cup runs are a big deal financially. If we can get through what is clearly going to be a mega tough game against St Johnston a cup final would make a reasonable dent in that 800K ....... winning it would probably wipe it out.

As for what the Yams have to say. That's like getting a lecture on celibacy from Charlie Sheen, as we all know they don't do irony.

:greengrin


**** Aberdeen.

**** Hearts.

**** Sevco.

I'm worried about my club, my clubs accounts, my clubs players and my clubs future.

For me we are moving forward in style now after a long time suffering pish. Petrie is still here I don't like it but hey ho I'm still behind all at Hibs because that's my club. Maybe in a couple of years people will be saying "we should do it the way Hibs done it."

:agree:

HSL, was the way forward they'll be saying :cb

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

GGTTH

[brog]

They're in a worse position than Hibs were ever in prior to the appointment of Butcher.

I would also argue that their finances are also still more precarious than Hibs have been in the last decade and more.

Yeah but Arabs haven't appointed Butcher! :wink: Personally i would rather Dun U either got relegated straight off or got clear. Although I'm an eternal optimist the current odds suggest we'll probably need to go up through the play offs. There's a lot more teams in the top div I would rather play than Dun U.

[dangermouse]

Yeah but Arabs haven't appointed Butcher! :wink: Personally i would rather Dun U either got relegated straight off or got clear. Although I'm an eternal optimist the current odds suggest we'll probably need to go up through the play offs. There's a lot more teams in the top div I would rather play than Dun U.

Having beaten them once already this season, mind games come into play. I'd fancy our chances.

[Rougier45]

[/B]
:top marks

Any thoughts hessenhibee :confused:

Given that farmer has owned us for 25 years and Petrie has sat at the helm for the majority of these years I find it hard to believe that there will be a commercial turnaround to that extent .

I have been supporting hibs 40 years and for 80% of that time - we have been rubbish - we have the 3rd best stadia - probably the 4th biggest support / yet we rarely finish in the top 6 .
hh :flag:

[green day]

Given that farmer has owned us for 25 years and Petrie has sat at the helm for the majority of these years I find it hard to believe that there will be a commercial turnaround to that extent .

I have been supporting hibs 40 years and for 80% of that time - we have been rubbish - we have the 3rd best stadia - probably the 4th biggest support / yet we rarely finish in the top 6 .
hh :flag:


Apart from the time we finished in the top 6 for six consecutive seasons.

Troll

[Bostonhibby]

Given that farmer has owned us for 25 years and Petrie has sat at the helm for the majority of these years I find it hard to believe that there will be a commercial turnaround to that extent .

I have been supporting hibs 40 years and for 80% of that time - we have been rubbish - we have the 3rd best stadia - probably the 4th biggest support / yet we rarely finish in the top 6 .
hh :flag:

Thanks for finally responding to one of my replies to your thoughts, not particularly this thread as there have been others but I thought if I trolled low enough I might get lucky, I can now die a happy man - keep up the good work:thumbsup:

[BSEJVT]

Given that farmer has owned us for 25 years and Petrie has sat at the helm for the majority of these years I find it hard to believe that there will be a commercial turnaround to that extent .

I have been supporting hibs 40 years and for 80% of that time - we have been rubbish - we have the 3rd best stadia - probably the 4th biggest support / yet we rarely finish in the top 6 .
hh :flag:

I take it your selectively replying to quotes to keep the pot boiling?

Yet you have steadfastly refused or are unable to answer any of the questions I or others have put to you.

You are so transparent its embarrassing

Why don't you go and ring doorbells or something if you want to annoy folk?

[KeithTheHibby]

Yes.

Do you think they'll get relegated?

I do and I sure as well won't have any sympathy for them.

[My_Wife_Camille]

In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.

[FranckSuzy]

Apart from the time we finished in the top 6 for six consecutive seasons.

Troll

:tee hee:

[Caversham Green]

In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.

None of that justifies the groundless and utterly ridiculous allegations made by Hessenhibee on this and other threads.

[Lucius Apuleius]

None of that justifies the groundless and utterly ridiculous allegations made by Hessenhibee on this and other threads.

Correct.

[CropleyWasGod]

Okay I've now read the accounts.

At July 2014 we owed the bank £6.3m. We also owed the holding company £3m.

By July 2015 the bank debt was cleared.

In 2015 the holding company purchased shares for a consideration of £4.5m. The proceeds were used to settle part of the intercompany debt.

A further £5m of debt is outstanding, now interest free.

So, total debt to the holding company during 2015 reached £9.5m when it was previously £3m.

I don't see any way the extra £6.5m was not what the holding company paid to the bank.
I've just read them too, and have a slightly different take on things.

The total borrowing in the year actually increased by £2m. See note 18. So, at one stage it was £11.3m.

Of that, the intercompany loan of £2.75m and the parent company loan of £2.25m were replaced by the new £5m mortgage.

The bank loan was £6.3m, less any capital repayments between August 2014 and January 2015. I don't have last year's accounts to hand, so don't know how much these would be. However, that loan would be what was replaced by the £4.5m of new shares.

At most, then, a discount of 30%.

Having said all that, as Cav says, we can't be certain until the Holding Company's accounts are published.

Edit :-. The capital repayments in that period would have been about £150k. So, bank loan due £6,15m. Repaid, £4.5m. Maximum write-off therefore 27%.

[CropleyWasGod]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan from HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:

[jabis]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan to HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:

What's the average rainfall in the Amazon basin?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?



great, the club will now get money back when paying telephone,gas/lecky and cooncil tax bills :greengrin





although it will be a different type of account i guess :)

[CropleyWasGod]

What's the average rainfall in the Amazon basin?

http://www.waterandclimatechange.eu/rainfall/amazon-river-basin-rainfall-in-average-year

[jabis]

http://www.waterandclimatechange.eu/rainfall/amazon-river-basin-rainfall-in-average-year

😁cheers,you're doing a great job,carry on!
Jabis

[Peevemor]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan from HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:

I would guess that the auditors were involved in setting up the share issue and maybe even negotiations with the BoS? :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

I would guess that the auditors were involved in setting up the share issue and maybe even negotiations with the BoS? :dunno:

Possibly, but £19k???

[Jack]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan from HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:

Interesting that after all these new posts/jobs here and there and everywhere we've fewer folk all round :-/

[son of haggart]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan from HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:


Not a question but at that rate of depreciation I would think the £39k would be IT - perhaps associated with ticketing? Most plant, equipment etc is depreciated at 25% or less pa

[CapitalGreen]

Not a question but at that rate of depreciation I would think the £39k would be IT - perhaps associated with ticketing? Most plant, equipment etc is depreciated at 25% or less pa

I was thinking it may be the Barcode ticket scanners but can't remember when they were installed.

[Greenworld]

No problems here we will accept a bid for an undisclosed player who will stay for this seasons .then the club will be debt free next season...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

I was thinking it may be the Barcode ticket scanners but can't remember when they were installed.

That, and SoH's comment, make sense.

It also implies that they have an expected life of 2.5 years. :greengrin

[Peevemor]

That, and SoH's comment, make sense.

It also implies that they have an expected life of 2.5 years. :greengrin

That's yonks in IT these days.

[Tyler Durden]

Okay I've now read the accounts.

At July 2014 we owed the bank £6.3m. We also owed the holding company £3m.

By July 2015 the bank debt was cleared.

In 2015 the holding company purchased shares for a consideration of £4.5m. The proceeds were used to settle part of the intercompany debt.

A further £5m of debt is outstanding, now interest free.

So, total debt to the holding company during 2015 reached £9.5m when it was previously £3m.

I don't see any way the extra £6.5m was not what the holding company paid to the bank.

An alternative view which has been previously speculated.

STF pays for example £2m for the £6.3m bank debt which transfers to the Holdco, taking debt to c£9.5m. £4.5m of that debt is converted to equity, leaving the new £5m loan.

The o/s £5m happens to then equate to the previous holding co debt plus the settlement paid to the bank.

As has been pointed out previously the bottom line is the club are much better off and now 20% fan owned.

[Bostonhibby]

great, the club will now get money back when paying telephone,gas/lecky and cooncil tax bills :greengrin





although it will be a different type of account i guess :)

Another revenue stream the yam will never get near

[CropleyWasGod]

An alternative view which has been previously speculated.

STF pays for example £2m for the £6.3m bank debt which transfers to the Holdco, taking debt to c£9.5m. £4.5m of that debt is converted to equity, leaving the new £5m loan.

The o/s £5m happens to then equate to the previous holding co debt plus the settlement paid to the bank.

As has been pointed out previously the bottom line is the club are much better off and now 20% fan owned.

Paying 2m for the bank loan would take the inter-company debt to 7m (2 plus 2.75 plus 2.25)

However..bottom line is absolutely superb, as you say.

[greenginger]

Separate to the above, a few wee titbits from the accounts for those who don't have them, or who canny be arsed reading them.

We're no longer with BoS. Santander are our bankers now. They have no security, other than "a cash float for turnstile operations". No scoobie what that is.... anyone?

Playing staff is down from 64 to 54. Commercial and admin up from 18 to 21.

Highest paid director (presumably LD) had a package of £117k. Separate to that, £197k was shared between Steven Dunn, Jamie Marwick and (for part of the year) Colin McNeill, George Craig and Garry O'Hagan..

AND AND AND. Rod got nowt. :rolleyes:

The auditor's got £19k for "other services", up from £1k. Since I won't be at the AGM, somebody gonny ask what that was for?????

We bought £39k worth of Fixed Assets (not cars), under a finance lease, that are being depreciated at 40%. I've no idea what that was. Anyone?

The loan from HFC is secured. And.... for the avoidance ofdoubt... it's INTEREST-FREE.

Questions?

:na na:


The Auditors £19 k for other services. Maybe for assisting in the share issue/debt reduction plan. Making sure we did not land ourselves with a tax bill down the line.

[Tyler Durden]

When did the holding co debt increase to £5m?

"Buying" the bank debt and transferring that to the holding co (before swapping the debt for equity) would then mean the total debt of £11.3m you previously quoted would it not?

Are the accounts usually added on the board for us non shareholders to review?

(Above was intended to quote CWG's last post)

[CropleyWasGod]

When did the holding co debt increase to £5m?

"Buying" the bank debt and transferring that to the holding co (before swapping the debt for equity) would then mean the total debt of £11.3m you previously quoted would it not?

Are the accounts usually added on the board for us non shareholders to review?

(Above was intended to quote CWG's last post)

Note 18 in the accounts has it increasing to £5m.

5 plus 6.3 gives the 11.3. That then reduced to 9.5 (5 plus 4.5).

Someone more savvy than me will be along in a minute to scan and post them :greengrin

[zolliehibs]

Interesting that after all these new posts/jobs here and there and everywhere we've fewer folk all round :-/

Accounts have employee numbers on a 'full-time equivalent' basis - this means that any roles for which the set working hours are lower than full time (usually around 35-40 per week in most businesses) are counted as less than one person in that count.

I'd be interested to see what the coaches and scouts etc. are counted as within that. No conspiracy theories or anything, just an accountant by trade and curious. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

When is Hibs next AGM. ?

Before or after January.

[Baldy Foghorn]

When is Hibs next AGM. ?

Before or after January.

Dec 15th

[silverhibee]

Dec 15th

:aok:

[Caversham Green]

Paying 2m for the bank loan would take the inter-company debt to 7m (2 plus 2.75 plus 2.25)

However..bottom line is absolutely superb, as you say.

I think Tyler means that HFC bought the debt from the bank rather than the club - you don't buy a liability unless you're daft - but the figure of £2m seems entirely spurious unless I'm missing something.

Judging from your description the sequence of events depicted by the accounts seems pretty straightforward - HFC lends the club £2m and buys £4.5m worth of shares and the club pays off the bank with the proceeds. Whether that is what actually happened remains to be seen. Are there any notes that contradict that?

Also, has the share premium changed?

[Rougier45]

[QUOTE=My Wife Camille;4514864]In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.[/QUOTes


So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change

[greenlex]

[QUOTE=My Wife Camille;4514864]In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.[/QUOTes


So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change


We have change. We are in the process of fan ownership. Are you just to stupid to see this? The speed of this process is up to us..

[BSEJVT]

[QUOTE=My Wife Camille;4514864]In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.[/QUOTes


So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change

I take it that as you refuse to answer any questions regarding it you have finally moved on from your assertions regarding STF?

So you now have the we "need change argument" to fall back on.

I look forward to hearing from you in 2017, by which time you will probably have caught up with what is actually happening at the club.

Still no doubt at that time you will be complaining because of Hibs poor showing in the Olympics and failure to retain the Davis Cup.

Anything to criticise the club for folk like you.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=My Wife Camille;4514864]In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.[/QUOTes


So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change
You've been asked a question about the Aberdeen debt 3 times. Are you able to answer it?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Caversham Green]

So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change

Does your "sense of reality" extend to telling us which football clubs got 80% knocked off their bank debt?

Because right now that and your tales of dealings with banks look like pure fantasy.

[greenginger]

Does your "sense of reality" extend to telling us which football clubs got 80% knocked off their bank debt?

Because right now that and your tales of dealings with banks look like pure fantasy.


When Vlad moved the Yams £ 20 million bank debt from BoS to Ukio, they got £ 2 million knocked off ( 10 % ).

Of course they got 100% knocked off a few years later. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I think Tyler means that HFC bought the debt from the bank rather than the club - you don't buy a liability unless you're daft - but the figure of £2m seems entirely spurious unless I'm missing something.

Judging from your description the sequence of events depicted by the accounts seems pretty straightforward - HFC lends the club £2m and buys £4.5m worth of shares and the club pays off the bank with the proceeds. Whether that is what actually happened remains to be seen. Are there any notes that contradict that?

Also, has the share premium changed?

The relevant notes are attached.

Over to you on the Share Premium :greengrin

15709

15710

[Caversham Green]

They are attached, but they're upside down - I've now got a headache from standing on my head trying to read them.

Anyhow, the note says that the club settled £4.5m of intercompany borrowings by the share issue - that suggests that the bank loans had already been paid off at the time of the share issue and my feeling is that £4.5m was the settlement figure. That's a discount of about 30% which ties in nicely with the level given to Dundee Utd. That is speculation of course. I do wonder if STF just decided that £5m was the amount he wanted repaid and the rest would be written off regardless - it has the feeling of a final settlement to me.

My query about the share premium was really just to get a feel for what's gone on. After all, STF (or more accurately the holding company) has ostensibly paid £4.5m to add to his shareholding and then valued the lot (including that addition) at £2.5m through the subsequent share offer. It makes no business sense.

[CropleyWasGod]

They are attached, but they're upside down - I've now got a headache from standing on my head trying to read them.

Anyhow, the note says that the club settled £4.5m of intercompany borrowings by the share issue - that suggests that the bank loans had already been paid off at the time of the share issue and my feeling is that £4.5m was the settlement figure. That's a discount of about 30% which ties in nicely with the level given to Dundee Utd. That is speculation of course. I do wonder if STF just decided that £5m was the amount he wanted repaid and the rest would be written off regardless - it has the feeling of a final settlement to me.

My query about the share premium was really just to get a feel for what's gone on. After all, STF (or more accurately the holding company) has ostensibly paid £4.5m to add to his shareholding and then valued the lot (including that addition) at £2.5m through the subsequent share offer. It makes no business sense.

I rescanned them, just for you.

Yeah, £1.8m of a write-off is what I came to as well. I wasn't clear on how much of that was the bank, and how much HFC, but you're suggesting that it was all the bank. Makes sense to me.

30% is less than 80%.

[son of haggart]

They are attached, but they're upside down - I've now got a headache from standing on my head trying to read them.

Anyhow, the note says that the club settled £4.5m of intercompany borrowings by the share issue - that suggests that the bank loans had already been paid off at the time of the share issue and my feeling is that £4.5m was the settlement figure. That's a discount of about 30% which ties in nicely with the level given to Dundee Utd. That is speculation of course. I do wonder if STF just decided that £5m was the amount he wanted repaid and the rest would be written off regardless - it has the feeling of a final settlement to me.

My query about the share premium was really just to get a feel for what's gone on. After all, STF (or more accurately the holding company) has ostensibly paid £4.5m to add to his shareholding and then valued the lot (including that addition) at £2.5m through the subsequent share offer. It makes no business sense.

Your second paragraph sounds right to me. Also, following the logic of that is the 'business sense' not a pragmatic approach whereby if nothing had been done the bank debt and interest on it would have likely continued to rise to the point over a number of years that STF's 'investment' could have become valueless. By setting up a scheme where supporters invest annually for shares, and the money goes to the club, the budget gap may be bridged to the point where STF can recoup £5million less whatever was paid to the bank rather than potentially zero plus retain a share of an asset which has some value

[Caversham Green]

I rescanned them, just for you.

Yeah, £1.8m of a write-off is what I came to as well. I wasn't clear on how much of that was the bank, and how much HFC, but you're suggesting that it was all the bank. Makes sense to me.

30% is less than 80%.

I've done a few calculations and it seems 30% is indeed less than 80% - all that training has obviously paid off.

Anyway, the bit that I'm still unsure of is that the loans must have been transferred to the holding company before being settled - I'm a bit surprised that the auditors didn't consider it necessary to include a note to that effect.


Your second paragraph sounds right to me. Also, following the logic of that is the 'business sense' not a pragmatic approach whereby if nothing had been done the bank debt and interest on it would have likely continued to rise to the point over a number of years that STF's 'investment' could have become valueless. By setting up a scheme where supporters invest annually for shares, and the money goes to the club, the budget gap may be bridged to the point where STF can recoup £5million less whatever was paid to the bank rather than potentially zero plus retain a share of an asset which has some value

Yes,I pretty much agree with that. Having looked over the financial history of STF's ownership it's clear to me that business sense has never been his top priority despite what some would have you believe. Developments over the last five years suggest to me that we're now in the endgame of STF's proprietorship. This share offer may not be the last movement of ownership we see over the next few years.

[NAE NOOKIE]

[QUOTE=My Wife Camille;4514864]In my life time we've had as many relegations as we have had cup wins. We have also spent more time in the lower half of the Premier League (or worse) than we have in the top half. Five top 4 finishes in a league of 10/12 in 26 years is a really poor return for a club of our size.

Despite being one of the biggest clubs in the country we have not achieved anything near what we should have with the resources available to us.[/QUOTes


So i am not the only one with a sense of reality .


WE need change

In what way does the post you are quoting reflect that 'My Wife Camille' or you have a greater "sense of reality" than the folk on this board or any other Hibs supporter?

That set of stats has been pointed out by so many posters ( including me ) on so many threads over the last two years and more that its almost become a Hibs.Net cliché. It hardly qualifies as dazzling insight, we are all painfully aware of Hibs historic underachievement since the 50s.

The change we all know was needed is already underway as far as I can see and is being conducted under the restrictions of the league we are in and our current financial circumstances. What got us here and our failure to meet expectations are always worth discussion, but at this stage how does that help change anything, or the clubs current efforts to move forward?

Of course, if the change you mean is STF selling the club to some 'white knight' with squillions to spend I'll be happy to jump on the next Unicorn that passes the house and shoot up to Edinburgh to talk to him about it.

[Sergio sledge]

Anyway, the bit that I'm still unsure of is that the loans must have been transferred to the holding company before being settled - I'm a bit surprised that the auditors didn't consider it necessary to include a note to that effect.

It reads to me like there was an additional £4.5m of intercompany borrowing before the share issue, which would suggest that the club borrowed £4.5m from the Holding Co. to pay off the bank debt. This was then paid off by the issue of new shares in January. If I'm reading that right then the mortgages wouldn't have been transferred to the Holding Co. would they? Or have I misunderstood what you were saying?

In other words, STF lent us an additional £6.5m (£4.5m to pay off the mortgage and £2m to fund the club I assume) within the year, taking the debt to the holding co. up to £9.5m at one point in the year.

We then used this money to pay off the mortgage (30% discount) and then the holding co. took 2.5m extra shares in January to reduce the debt to them to £5m.

Upshot is that our total debt would have been £11.3m (accruing interest) at the year end, but it is now £5m interest free. A £6.3m reduction at no cost to the club. How can anyone think that is a bad thing?

[Ged]

I do wonder if STF just decided that £5m was the amount he wanted repaid and the rest would be written off regardless - it has the feeling of a final settlement to me.



Isn't £5m the cost of the north and south stands? It would tie in nicely.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

[Caversham Green]

It reads to me like there was an additional £4.5m of intercompany borrowing before the share issue, which would suggest that the club borrowed £4.5m from the Holding Co. to pay off the bank debt. This was then paid off by the issue of new shares in January. If I'm reading that right then the mortgages wouldn't have been transferred to the Holding Co. would they? Or have I misunderstood what you were saying?

In other words, STF lent us an additional £6.5m (£4.5m to pay off the mortgage and £2m to fund the club I assume) within the year, taking the debt to the holding co. up to £9.5m at one point in the year.

We then used this money to pay off the mortgage (30% discount) and then the holding co. took 2.5m extra shares in January to reduce the debt to them to £5m.

Upshot is that our total debt would have been £11.3m (accruing interest) at the year end, but it is now £5m interest free. A £6.3m reduction at no cost to the club. How can anyone think that is a bad thing?

If the club rather than the holding co had paid off the bank loan then the discount would have been shown in the P&L as an exceptional item - Dundee Utd show an 'Exceptional refinancing gain' of £1.375m. On the debt of £4.7m that's a tad under 30%. It's not inconceivable that the club paid the full amount, but that's unlikely given the circumstances IMO.

[Caversham Green]

Isn't £5m the cost of the north and south stands? It would tie in nicely.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

It's also the value of the Morston preference shares that were effectively written off a few years ago. As I say it does look to me like the tying up of some loose ends.

[Bad Martini]

I did study accountancy (with various other things)...I also lost most interest after I learned education was wasted and all you needed was a subscription to a red top and/or nae brains, a working internet connection and a penchant for talking utter bull**** :na na::greengrin


...word is, even Stevie Wonder can see the reduction of debt and removal of interest (taking away ALL the **** being argued and "debated" around the periphery) is "good".

However, I'm sure there are some crackpots who will find a way to suggest this is not a good thing/a conspiracy exists/its a con/your're all wrong and am right type bollocks. Fortunately, mental health has evolved a lot over the years and these folk can seek professional help for nixy kai nowadays.

#justsayin :aok:
#endof

[SunshineOnLeith]

I've done a few calculations and it seems 30% is indeed less than 80% - all that training has obviously paid off.



15713

I concur.

[Tyler Durden]

They are attached, but they're upside down - I've now got a headache from standing on my head trying to read them.

Anyhow, the note says that the club settled £4.5m of intercompany borrowings by the share issue - that suggests that the bank loans had already been paid off at the time of the share issue and my feeling is that £4.5m was the settlement figure. That's a discount of about 30% which ties in nicely with the level given to Dundee Utd. That is speculation of course. I do wonder if STF just decided that £5m was the amount he wanted repaid and the rest would be written off regardless - it has the feeling of a final settlement to me.

My query about the share premium was really just to get a feel for what's gone on. After all, STF (or more accurately the holding company) has ostensibly paid £4.5m to add to his shareholding and then valued the lot (including that addition) at £2.5m through the subsequent share offer. It makes no business sense.

I like how my £2m suggestion was described as spurious but your £4.5m is your "feeling"! Based on the assumption of a similar deal to Dundee Utd yes, but an assumption none the less...

The £2m additional loan to the club from the holdco during the year, if this was for general trading purposes would there not be signs of that elsewhere in the accounts?

[3pm]

My first AGM.

Was the invite you plus guest previously?! Is that the case this year?

[Caversham Green]

I like how my £2m suggestion was described as spurious but your £4.5m is your "feeling"! Based on the assumption of a similar deal to Dundee Utd yes, but an assumption none the less...

The £2m additional loan to the club from the holdco during the year, if this was for general trading purposes would there not be signs of that elsewhere in the accounts?

The 'spurious' comment wasn't intended to be insulting in any way - sorry if it came across that way. I was just making the point that I didn't see any basis for it actually being that figure. Likewise, I think I've made it clear that my own figure should not be accepted as fact - I've called it a feeling and described it as speculation but I have given the basis of my speculation. It's up to the reader to assess how likely it is.

As far as the loan goes, there wouldn't necessarily be any specific indication that the loan was for working capital - there never has been in the past - but the fact that there was a loss of £800k would indicate that extra cash was needed. I don't have the full accounts but I would guess that there were some additions to Intangible assets as well. I'll be able to comment better when I do have the accounts.

[ancient hibee]

I've done a few calculations and it seems 30% is indeed less than 80% - all that training has obviously paid off.

Anyway, the bit that I'm still unsure of is that the loans must have been transferred to the holding company before being settled - I'm a bit surprised that the auditors didn't consider it necessary to include a note to that effect.



Yes,I pretty much agree with that. Having looked over the financial history of STF's ownership it's clear to me that business sense has never been his top priority despite what some would have you believe. Developments over the last five years suggest to me that we're now in the endgame of STF's proprietorship. This share offer may not be the last movement of ownership we see over the next few years.

However am I right in thinking that STFs or holding company shares are in effect valueless.If the fans ownership holding continues to grow nobody is going to buy his shares to own 49% of the club.

[Tyler Durden]

The 'spurious' comment wasn't intended to be insulting in any way - sorry if it came across that way. I was just making the point that I didn't see any basis for it actually being that figure. Likewise, I think I've made it clear that my own figure should not be accepted as fact - I've called it a feeling and described it as speculation but I have given the basis of my speculation. It's up to the reader to assess how likely it is.

As far as the loan goes, there wouldn't necessarily be any specific indication that the loan was for working capital - there never has been in the past - but the fact that there was a loss of £800k would indicate that extra cash was needed. I don't have the full accounts but I would guess that there were some additions to Intangible assets as well. I'll be able to comment better when I do have the accounts.

No worries, my comment was intended to be light hearted but missed out some smilies👍

[CropleyWasGod]

My first AGM.

Was the invite you plus guest previously?! Is that the case this year?
Only shareholders, and invited media, are allowed in.



Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

Only shareholders, and invited media, are allowed in.



Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

And proxies who in some cases have been journalists who weren't invited.

[CropleyWasGod]

However am I right in thinking that STFs or holding company shares are in effect valueless.If the fans ownership holding continues to grow nobody is going to buy his shares to own 49% of the club.
As the fans' holding grows, the Holding company's diminishes, in relative terms.

There would be a value if the assets were broken up, but I reckon STF has long given up the notion that his holding had any meaningful value.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

And proxies who in some cases have been journalists who weren't invited.
Poxy journalists get everywhere

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

As the fans' holding grows, the Holding company's diminishes, in relative terms.

There would be a value if the assets were broken up, but I reckon STF has long given up the notion that his holding had any meaningful value.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Exactly -so what will he do with it in due course-lack of someone with his financial reputation could cause severe problems a few years down the road.

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly -so what will he do with it in due course-lack of someone with his financial reputation could cause severe problems a few years down the road.
He will have plans, of that I'm sure. Whether that is family -related, or a Trust, we can't know yet. I think we can be fairly certain that his share of the club will be tied up in a way that protects our future.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

He will have plans, of that I'm sure. Whether that is family -related, or a Trust, we can't know yet. I think we can be fairly certain that his share of the club will be tied up in a way that protects our future.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


That's going to complicate things for when I win Euromillions as obviously I will want to own everything and not have to pay any attention to fans and assorted riff raff.

[superfurryhibby]

He will have plans, of that I'm sure. Whether that is family -related, or a Trust, we can't know yet. I think we can be fairly certain that his share of the club will be tied up in a way that protects our future.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

If 5 million were just a splash of pish in my ocean of cash, I'd be inclined to make the grand gesture. The one that would offer the definitive securing of our future, or as definitive as can be applied to a fans trust owning a club.

Maybe that's why I'm not the mega rich entrepreneur that is STF.

[CapitalGreen]

If 5 million were just a splash of pish in my ocean of cash, I'd be inclined to make the grand gesture. The one that would offer the definitive securing of our future, or as definitive as can be applied to a fans trust owning a club.

Maybe that's why I'm not the mega rich entrepreneur that is STF.

It's easy to spend other people's money, £5m is around 4% of STF's net worth (2014 estimates). Hardly a splash of pish in the ocean, especially considering little of that net worth will be in the form of cash/liquid assets.

[CropleyWasGod]

The accounts:-

15714

[hibs0666]

The accounts:-

15714

It looks like Leeann Dempster was on sweeties for that type of job last year. The risk of her walking would be near top of my risk register.

[Lucius Apuleius]

It looks like Leeann Dempster was on sweeties for that type of job last year. The risk of her walking would be near top of my risk register.

108k plus benefits isn't really sweeties is it?

[brog]

It looks like Leeann Dempster was on sweeties for that type of job last year. The risk of her walking would be near top of my risk register.

Nice to agree with you for once! :greengrin

[brog]

108k plus benefits isn't really sweeties is it?

You're right, its a decent salary & package but comparatively it's less than she could earn elsewhere. In footy terms it's £2k a week for someone who may just be the greatest asset we currently have.

[lucky]

LD is on the going rate for running a business the size of Hibs. She is doing a good job so it appears money well spent.

[hibs0666]

Nice to agree with you for once! :greengrin

Ach Brian, we agreed 99.9% of the time when I was in London. :wink:

Do you still get up for games?

[hibs0666]

108k plus benefits isn't really sweeties is it?

It's probably on a par with the size of club we are, and what we can afford, but it is sweeties in comparison with other clubs. For example, the highest paid direct at Aberdeen is on over £160,000.

[hibs0666]

108k plus benefits isn't really sweeties is it?

Not in absolute terms, and that's why I said 'for that type of job'.

[brog]

Ach Brian, we agreed 99.9% of the time when I was in London. :wink:

Do you still get up for games?

Hoping to be up on 18th but put my back out & housebound right now. Why I'm on here writing s****all the time! :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

You're right, its a decent salary & package but comparatively it's less than she could earn elsewhere. In footy terms it's £2k a week for someone who may just be the greatest asset we currently have.

Remember that that was her first full year in post.

It's likely she will have performance-related bonuses in her contract. Don't think she will have done enough to warrant being paid them in that first year.

[Jack]

It looks like Leeann Dempster was on sweeties for that type of job last year. The risk of her walking would be near top of my risk register.

Maybe it's performance related.

[Caversham Green]

It looks like Leeann Dempster was on sweeties for that type of job last year. The risk of her walking would be near top of my risk register.

It's about 50% more than Rod was on before he was sacked.

As others have said, there was probably a set bonus for promotion plus a substantial raise for running a Premiership club, both of which she'll get at the end of this season. Rod got a £30k bonus the last time we won the League Cup, so she's probably in line for that as well.

[Lucius Apuleius]

It's about 50% more than Rod was on before he was sacked.

As others have said, there was probably a set bonus for promotion plus a substantial raise for running a Premiership club, both of which she'll get at the end of this season. Rod got a £30k bonus the last time we won the League Cup, so she's probably in line for that as well.

That's where I was coming from but too lazy to type it all :greengrin It is a decent salary. I appreciate it is not the biggest in Scottish football, but we are not the biggest team in Scottish football. Not really sure how salary structures work in the UK, never having been subject to them, but it sounds decent enough.

[jacomo]

It's probably on a par with the size of club we are, and what we can afford, but it is sweeties in comparison with other clubs. For example, the highest paid direct at Aberdeen is on over £160,000.

Aberdeen have a much higher turnover than us at the moment, and we made a very considerable loss.

However, I agree that LD is a very valuable asset and I would hope that there are arrangements in place and a bonus system which rewards success.

[Smartie]

Remember that that was her first full year in post.

It's likely she will have performance-related bonuses in her contract. Don't think she will have done enough to warrant being paid them in that first year.

It's a difficult thing to quantify but given where we were before she took over I'd be astonished (and delighted) if she ever has a year with us during which she either works harder or improves the club more (i.e. performs better) than in her first year.



On a separate note, regarding Petrie - will he be getting a wage from somewhere else such as another of Farmer's companies? I know he isn't exactly a popular figure but he (supposedly) works very hard and Farmer thinks highly of him. I wouldn't expect him to live off nothing.

[Caversham Green]

It's a difficult thing to quantify but given where we were before she took over I'd be astonished (and delighted) if she ever has a year with us during which she either works harder or improves the club more (i.e. performs better) than in her first year.



On a separate note, regarding Petrie - will he be getting a wage from somewhere else such as another of Farmer's companies? I know he isn't exactly a popular figure but he (supposedly) works very hard and Farmer thinks highly of him. I wouldn't expect him to live off nothing.

Last time I looked he certainly wasn't getting paid in any way from any company in the Hibs group. That might have changed in the last year or so but I think it's unlikely. I don't know (and don't much care) about any of STF's other companies.

[CropleyWasGod]

Last time I looked he certainly wasn't getting paid in any way from any company in the Hibs group. That might have changed in the last year or so but I think it's unlikely. I don't know (and don't much care) about any of STF's other companies.
IIRC, one of their companies recently sold the Odeon. It's likely that RP will get a fair slice of the profit from that.

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[ancient hibee]

It's a difficult thing to quantify but given where we were before she took over I'd be astonished (and delighted) if she ever has a year with us during which she either works harder or improves the club more (i.e. performs better) than in her first year.



On a separate note, regarding Petrie - will he be getting a wage from somewhere else such as another of Farmer's companies? I know he isn't exactly a popular figure but he (supposedly) works very hard and Farmer thinks highly of him. I wouldn't expect him to live off nothing.


Duddingston Properties-one of the biggest around.