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O'Rourke3
27-11-2015, 12:06 AM
According to our ex manager "rangers" look like they are going up but my old team Hibs are only a couple of points behind them. What a ****ing tosser.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

S4uzee
27-11-2015, 12:07 AM
According to our ex manager "rangers" look like they are going up but my old team Hibs are only a couple of points behind them. What a ****ing tosser.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

Just seen that haha.
He did say he hopes Hibs go up too

O'Rourke3
27-11-2015, 12:08 AM
Just seen that haha.
He did say he hopes Hibs go up too
He certainly has his finger on the Championship pulse..... I hope he gets painful piles.

Sent via the bushes @ EM

NAE NOOKIE
27-11-2015, 12:26 AM
Gjp .... ? :dunno:

crewetollhibee
27-11-2015, 01:08 AM
Gjp .... ? :dunno:

Ginger Judas Pr ick..........That help ?

monktonharp
27-11-2015, 01:12 AM
Gjp, sounds like a silly name for a previous Hibernian fc manager. who is he? one of our own?:rolleyes:

Hibbyradge
27-11-2015, 07:49 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the complaint?

Steve20
27-11-2015, 07:59 AM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

GordonHFC
27-11-2015, 08:02 AM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

Yes he did. He said we were a couple of points behind them in the league. Last time I looked that was wrong.

Frazerbob
27-11-2015, 08:10 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the complaint?

We're not a couple of points behind.

Kato
27-11-2015, 08:14 AM
McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

Perhaps. If Stubbs or Mowbray had been given 1/4 of the money McLeish frittered away they would have been streets ahead of him. Chequebook manager if ever there was one.

AndyM_1875
27-11-2015, 08:37 AM
Sorry but I like Alex McLeish. Good guy when I met him.

dangermouse
27-11-2015, 08:37 AM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

If he was that great, why didn't he succeed at Birmingham, Villa or Forest. He got lucky at Hibs as they had money to spend on players like Sauzee (we could never afford him now) and even luckier at Rangers where he only had to worry about four games a season.

underscore
27-11-2015, 08:37 AM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

He spent money that Stubbs could only dream about.

oneone73
27-11-2015, 08:53 AM
Sorry but I like Alex McLeish. Good guy when I met him.

Was he a good guy when he was meeting Murray and Advocaat behind our backs while still manager of Hibs? Ask Rod Petrie about GJP'S integrity.

Hibeewilly
27-11-2015, 08:58 AM
Sorry but I like Alex McLeish. Good guy when I met him.
I agree 100%. I just don't get the jibes. He did what we wanted and got us back up in one season and also gave us a terrific team to watch. Who else would have brought Sauzee Latapy etc. I also had the pleasure of meeting him in Cosmos after he went to Ibrox. He was having dinner with Murray and all he wanted to talk to me about was Hibs and his main question was "What did you think of big Frank as a Player" A total gentleman!! (and before the comics start he was talking about Sauzee not Dougan):wink::top marks

Hibrandenburg
27-11-2015, 09:05 AM
Sorry but I like Alex McLeish. Good guy when I met him.

Maybe I'm just bitter and twisted but I despise anyone that takes the 13 pieces of silver from them and yes I include Thomson and Murray and all the other chancers who kissed our badge and then their *****. I realize it's probably small minded and immature but it is what it is.

AndyM_1875
27-11-2015, 09:08 AM
Was he a good guy when he was meeting Murray and Advocaat behind our backs while still manager of Hibs? Ask Rod Petrie about GJP'S integrity.

Would you be a good guy if you went behind your employers back to talk to someone offering you 3 or 4 times your salary?

Sorry but that's commercial reality and if Rod is offended by that then he needs a reality check.

heretoday
27-11-2015, 09:09 AM
McLeish did very well for us. When I saw Hibs lose the first home game of the season v Stranraer in 1998 I feared our time had come. Three years later we were in the cup final.

dangermouse
27-11-2015, 09:13 AM
I agree 100%. I just don't get the jibes. He did what we wanted and got us back up in one season and also gave us a terrific team to watch. Who else would have brought Sauzee Latapy etc. I also had the pleasure of meeting him in Cosmos after he went to Ibrox. He was having dinner with Murray and all he wanted to talk to me about was Hibs and his main question was "What did you think of big Frank as a Player" A total gentleman!! (and before the comics start he was talking about Sauzee not Dougan):wink::top marks

What about his "I'm here as long as you want me" speech? Job offer along the M8, couldn't leave quick enough.

AndyM_1875
27-11-2015, 09:13 AM
McLeish did very well for us. When I saw Hibs lose the first home game of the season v Stranraer in 1998 I feared our time had come. Three years later we were in the cup final.

That's it really.

18 months after we were relegated and Hearts had won the Scottish Cup Hibs went to Tynecastle in the Millennium Derby and tore Hearts apart, 3-0 going on 6 or 7 bar for the brilliance of Niemi. That was McLeish's team and I personally won't forget that.

bigwheel
27-11-2015, 09:16 AM
McLeish did very well for us. When I saw Hibs lose the first home game of the season v Stranraer in 1998 I feared our time had come. Three years later we were in the cup final.


I don't think many would argue that McLeish didn't do well for us...It was the timing and the way he left that felt wrong. Leaving us a day before we played them, at a time when we were pretty much neck and neck with them..He could have said wait until after the game...then we will attend to the move. Lacked class.

O'Rourke3
27-11-2015, 09:21 AM
I was in the "still like him" group till last night.

Lazy comment to back up the Celtic and Scotland need a strong The Rangers blah blah blah. About half way through he remembered about the team that got him that and the Scotland jobs and managed to get one simple fact totally wrong.

The GJP was probably more to do with a couple of beers but our poor start that year probably had everything to do with the stuff being worked out to head West.

"I'm here as long as you want me" I'll never forget that or the way we all felt when he said it. So for everyone that's met him and reckons he's sound he does have previous around the charm and the truth.....

J-C
27-11-2015, 09:21 AM
Another manager who only succeeds if he has money to spend, it's no surprise that the only 2 clubs who actually backed him money wise is where he had most success



Team
Nat
From
To
Record


G
W
D
L
Win%[77] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_McLeish#cite_note-77)


Motherwell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)
13 July 1994
10 February 1998
156
48
45
63
30.77


Hibernian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)
11 February 1998
11 December 2001
164
77
42
45
46.95


Rangers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)
13 December 2001
8 May 2006
235
155
44
36
65.96


Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_football_team)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_Scotland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)
29 January 2007
27 November 2007
10
7
0
3
70.00


Birmingham City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
28 November 2007
12 June 2011
168
62
51
55
36.90


Aston Villa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Villa_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
17 June 2011
14 May 2012
42
9
17
16
21.43


Nottingham Forest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Forest_F.C.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/23px-Flag_of_England.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)
27 December 2012
5 February 2013
7
1
2
4
14.29


Genk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.R.C._Genk)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg/23px-Flag_of_Belgium_%28civil%29.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)
22 August 2014
22 June 2015
35
18
10
7
51.43


Total
817
377
211
229
46.14





He lasted a season at Genk because they failed to qualify for the championship play off.

Hibeewilly
27-11-2015, 09:24 AM
What about his "I'm here as long as you want me" speech? Job offer along the M8, couldn't leave quick enough.
That's just life DM. The Rangers job then was a big job carrying a massive salary. Nobody can blame him for accepting the challenge and of course the wages

J-C
27-11-2015, 09:25 AM
That's just life DM. The Rangers job then was a big job carrying a massive salary. Nobody can blame him for accepting the challenge and of course the wages


If IRC Mowbray said something similar till W Brom came knocking.

Kato
27-11-2015, 09:31 AM
Would you be a good guy if you went behind your employers back to talk to someone offering you 3 or 4 times your salary?

Sorry but that's commercial reality and if Rod is offended by that then he needs a reality check.

He was meeting SDM and Advocaat months before he left Hibs and on more than one occasion. I understand the commercial reality and have no problem with it. However there was also a level of sneakiness beyond that.

Halifaxhibby
27-11-2015, 09:53 AM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.

Cheque book manager.

Halifaxhibby
27-11-2015, 09:57 AM
McLeish did very well for us. When I saw Hibs lose the first home game of the season v Stranraer in 1998 I feared our time had come. Three years later we were in the cup final.

I mind that game. Beaten 1-0 at home. Mind you, their goal was a screamer.

Hibbyradge
27-11-2015, 10:04 AM
We're not a couple of points behind.

Of course, I see.

He should have said we're a game in hand behind.

What a ****ing tosser, right enough. :rolleyes:

pacorosssco
27-11-2015, 10:18 AM
Mcleish did very well . We were on a downhill curve though when he left. Didnt win many from Jan to till he left following season in October?. Great Derby record but left us in a relagation battle.

NAE NOOKIE
27-11-2015, 10:47 AM
Ginger Judas Pr ick..........That help ?

Ah!

I heard what he said. Don't forget most of the audience would have been English, if he had actually tried to explain a scenario where its not all about the ugly sisters all they would have heard would have been, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Lets face it, even the folk who run our game think like that :rolleyes:

O'Rourke3
27-11-2015, 11:38 AM
I mind that game. Beaten 1-0 at home. Mind you, their goal was a screamer.

You must have been in the load that traditionally left early :greengrin. It was 1-2 but that second was indeed a screamer from an ex Hibby.

oldbutdim
27-11-2015, 11:45 AM
Was he a good guy when he was meeting Murray and Advocaat behind our backs while still manager of Hibs? Ask Rod Petrie about GJP'S integrity.


He was meeting SDM and Advocaat months before he left Hibs and on more than one occasion. I understand the commercial reality and have no problem with it. However there was also a level of sneakiness beyond that.

Correct.

Judas by name Judas by nature.

He was effectively working for another club for several months whilst still pretending to look after Hibs.
Despicable actions.

silverhibee
27-11-2015, 12:12 PM
Of course, I see.

He should have said we're a game in hand behind.

What a ****ing tosser, right enough. :rolleyes:

The chat wasn't about Hibs, it was about how much Celtc must be missing The Rangers in the top flight.

McCleish replied by saying it's not just Celtc but the whole of Scotland who are missing them in the top flight, but no worries as they will be back up in top flight next season as they will stroll this league and take there place in the top flight next season, Oh, and i hope my old club Hibs get up as well who are a few points behind the new club.

So basically he was saying that The Rangers will stroll the league and hopefully Hibs scrape up through the play off's, what a f***ing tosser eh.

Borderhibbie76
27-11-2015, 12:44 PM
There's no complaint here. It's hard to argue Rangers are in a good position and are favourites to go up. He's not said anything wrong.

I like McLeish. For all the debate about Stubbs and Mowbray, McLeish was a far better manager for us than them both.
What a load of tosh...both were better than Mcleish imo...who had fortunes to spend compared to both Mogga and Stubbsy

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Thecat23
27-11-2015, 12:55 PM
The money Mcleish got made his job a lot easier that's for sure. But we also had a bad run under him before he left if I remember correct! Folk who think he's a lot better than Stubbs and Mowbray are not seeing the big picture.

If either Stubbs or Mowbray had that cash who knows what they could achieve. As I said before, Stubbs will go on and have a better managerial career than the other two, that I'm sure of. But other than that I liked big Eck when he was here and I've nothing against him.

oneone73
27-11-2015, 01:00 PM
He was meeting SDM and Advocaat months before he left Hibs and on more than one occasion. I understand the commercial reality and have no problem with it. However there was also a level of sneakiness beyond that.

This

dangermouse
27-11-2015, 01:09 PM
If IRC Mowbray said something similar till W Brom came knocking.

Mowbray kept banging on that the shelf life of a manager at any club was 4 years. Don't recall him saying he'd stay as long as we wanted him to.

dangermouse
27-11-2015, 01:11 PM
That's just life DM. The Rangers job then was a big job carrying a massive salary. Nobody can blame him for accepting the challenge and of course the wages

Maybe so, but he mentioned something about money not being important to him that day as well. Still a GJP :greengrin

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
27-11-2015, 01:14 PM
The money Mcleish got made his job a lot easier that's for sure. But we also had a bad run under him before he left if I remember correct! Folk who think he's a lot better than Stubbs and Mowbray are not seeing the big picture.

If either Stubbs or Mowbray had that cash who knows what they could achieve. As I said before, Stubbs will go on and have a better managerial career than the other two, that I'm sure of. But other than that I liked big Eck when he was here and I've nothing against him.

People keep saying that, but nobody points out that so did every other club that we were (out) competing at the time.

McLeish's Hibs side was the best Hibs side since the 70s. I cant believe its even up for debate, it has Sauzee, by far the greatest player i have ever seen play for us in it. Latapy, John ONeil, Laursen, Zitelli, Mixu, Libbra (for a while). Mowbray's team were great but consistently weak in defence / GK and lost most big games (many actually really badly). Stubbs team has huge promise, but it has only ever finished second in the first division.

How anyone can seriously slate the guy (and his team) who gave us our biggest win at Tynie in yonks, our biggest derby win since 1973, as comfortable a Scottish Cup semi win as we are likely to get (beat Livi 3-0), that tie against AEK and loads of other great memories.

I understand why some people may not like the way he left, but seriously, some fans act like teenage girls who have been dumped by some boy they are infatuated with they way they go on.

Every manager who has ever left Hibs for better is bad, every manager we have ever sacked is bad, so who exactly are we supposed to like - nobody that ever leaves Hibs?

And how do people think we go about recruiting form clubs that are smaller than us?

erin go bragh
27-11-2015, 01:21 PM
Yes he shafted us for the Huns but to say he only had success when he were giving huge amounts of money is crap . His record as manager of Scotland was a 70% win ratio . Which must be up with the best of them all .
The millennium Derby and the 6-2 slaughter at ER should exclude Mcleish from criticism imo . Although I did call him a Ginger Judas Prick when he left . Time has mellowed my opinion . Sauzee never lost a game to they cants . So I'd rather thank Mcleish than slate him .

GGTTH

Thecat23
27-11-2015, 01:23 PM
People keep saying that, but nobody points out that so did every other club that we were (out) competing at the time.

McLeish's Hibs side was the best Hibs side since the 70s. I cant believe its even up for debate, it has Sauzee, by far the greatest player i have ever seen play for us in it. Latapy, John ONeil, Laursen, Zitelli, Mixu, Libbra (for a while). Mowbray's team were great but consistently weak in defence / GK and lost most big games (many actually really badly). Stubbs team has huge promise, but it has only ever finished second in the first division.

How anyone can seriously slate the guy (and his team) who gave us our biggest win at Tynie in yonks, our biggest derby win since 1973, as comfortable a Scottish Cup semi win as we are likely to get (beat Livi 3-0), that tie against AEK and loads of other great memories.

I understand why some people may not like the way he left, but seriously, some fans act like teenage girls who have been dumped by some boy they are infatuated with they way they go on.

Every manager who has ever left Hibs for better is bad, every manager we have ever sacked is bad, so who exactly are we supposed to like - nobody that ever leaves Hibs?

And how do people think we go about recruiting form clubs that are smaller than us?

I'm not sure what makes you think I'm "slating" him when I said at the end I liked him and still do. Nothing against him moving that's football. What I am saying is if both other managers had that money I'm sure they would have done well with it.

McLeish team was the best I've watched in my 37 years of following Hibs.

Pretty Boy
27-11-2015, 01:28 PM
McLeish left us in a bit of a state. The decline was evident from the season before although the flying start and SC final appearance meant nobody really commented on our poor form post Christmas.

We were pretty grim at the start of the next season and Franck paid the price for that after McLeish jumped ship.

You can't take away that he got us up at the 1st time of asking, consolidated our positon back in the league and we had an absolutely outstanding few months at the start of the following season. I bear him no ill will but I often think his team is a bit like childhood summers in they are remembered as being sunnier than they actually were.

Smartie
27-11-2015, 01:48 PM
People keep saying that, but nobody points out that so did every other club that we were (out) competing at the time.

McLeish's Hibs side was the best Hibs side since the 70s. I cant believe its even up for debate, it has Sauzee, by far the greatest player i have ever seen play for us in it. Latapy, John ONeil, Laursen, Zitelli, Mixu, Libbra (for a while). Mowbray's team were great but consistently weak in defence / GK and lost most big games (many actually really badly). Stubbs team has huge promise, but it has only ever finished second in the first division.

How anyone can seriously slate the guy (and his team) who gave us our biggest win at Tynie in yonks, our biggest derby win since 1973, as comfortable a Scottish Cup semi win as we are likely to get (beat Livi 3-0), that tie against AEK and loads of other great memories.

I understand why some people may not like the way he left, but seriously, some fans act like teenage girls who have been dumped by some boy they are infatuated with they way they go on.

Every manager who has ever left Hibs for better is bad, every manager we have ever sacked is bad, so who exactly are we supposed to like - nobody that ever leaves Hibs?

And how do people think we go about recruiting form clubs that are smaller than us?

Excellent post.

Look at some of the quality players in the Hearts sides that lost the millennium derby and the 6-2 game (imagine what those games would have been like if they hadn't had Antti Niemi for a start). McLeish may have been given a lot of cash but he was competing with teams who had pots of cash and managed to do very well for us.

I didn't like the way he left but eventually got over it.

Or maybe it was having to watch football under Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher that taught me to appreciate the characters who have managed to put a good Hibs team on the park and forgive the odds and ends that they did that I didn't agree with.


The thing I used to like about McLeish was that he was honest in his appraisal of games. We played well, he'd say we'd played well. We were rubbish he'd say we were rubbish. It is always comforting when you feel like you've watched the same game as the manager.

Smartie
27-11-2015, 01:56 PM
McLeish left us in a bit of a state. The decline was evident from the season before although the flying start and SC final appearance meant nobody really commented on our poor form post Christmas.

We were pretty grim at the start of the next season and Franck paid the price for that after McLeish jumped ship.

You can't take away that he got us up at the 1st time of asking, consolidated our positon back in the league and we had an absolutely outstanding few months at the start of the following season. I bear him no ill will but I often think his team is a bit like childhood summers in they are remembered as being sunnier than they actually were.

There's no doubt that things had turned and were going downhill before he left, and that that decline had started halfway through the previous season.

I don't know how much of this could be attributed to McLeish though? The second season back up we started brilliantly. But there were a lot of players who were due to be out of contract at the end of that season and speculation had started as to whether or not they'd leave. I got the feeling that at the start of that season the squad were a tight-knit bunch (remember the skinheads on the pre-season tour etc). But I think egos and attitudes started to get in the way - Latapy, Paatelainen and Lovell were all to be out of contract and wouldn't sign new ones. Maybe Petrie had started his tricks by then? Sauzee had started picking up the odd injury and wasn't quite as good as he had been (then didn't play much at all at the start of the following season).

The loss of Latapy, Paatelainen and (essentially) Sauzee ripped a very strong spine out of that team. It was always going to be tough to replace players of that quality and tbh we probably didn't appreciate the likes of Brewster, Luna and Doumbe until much later.

What we would learn a bit more about later though is what happens when you replace good players with ones of inferior quality. And I'm not convinced that the manager is always the one to blame for this happening.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
27-11-2015, 02:01 PM
I'm not sure what makes you think I'm "slating" him when I said at the end I liked him and still do. Nothing against him moving that's football. What I am saying is if both other managers had that money I'm sure they would have done well with it.

McLeish team was the best I've watched in my 37 years of following Hibs.

Sorry mate, i didn't mean to suggest you were slating him, that was more a general comment responding to some other posts.

Yeah its true what you say about money, but relative to the other teams, i doubt we were much, if any better off than we were during Mowbray's era. Hearts had the SMG money on top of their standard debt running up, we were running up debt, teams like Motherwell (John Spencer et al), Kilmarnock (Christophe Cocard), Dundee (Caniggia etc), Livingston (David Fernandez et al), and of course by far the stongest Celtic team in living memory, and a Rangers team that had Kanchelskis, Van Bronckhorst etc.

Definitely agree with others that the way he left was disappointing, but a degree of his poor legacy was about how we (mis) managed his departure and the transition to Sauzee as well IMO.

Agree with you, best Hibs team i have ever seen.

J-C
27-11-2015, 02:03 PM
Mowbray kept banging on that the shelf life of a manager at any club was 4 years. Don't recall him saying he'd stay as long as we wanted him to.


Pretty sure I remember him saying he wasn't going anywhere soon etc and fairly quickly was off to W Brom

Mowbray rejected the chance to return to Portman Road as manager earlier this year and in September signed a new 12-month rolling contract at Easter Road.
However, the lure of West Brom proved too much and, after agreeing compensation, Hibernian allowed him to leave.
"The club would like to thank Tony for all that he has done during his time at Easter Road and wish him and his family every success in the future," said a statement on the Hibernian website.
Hibs' preparations for Sunday's Edinburgh derby with Hearts at Easter Road have been supervised by first-team coach Mark Venus and his staff.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
27-11-2015, 02:06 PM
There's no doubt that things had turned and were going downhill before he left, and that that decline had started halfway through the previous season.

I don't know how much of this could be attributed to McLeish though? The second season back up we started brilliantly. But there were a lot of players who were due to be out of contract at the end of that season and speculation had started as to whether or not they'd leave. I got the feeling that at the start of that season the squad were a tight-knit bunch (remember the skinheads on the pre-season tour etc). But I think egos and attitudes started to get in the way - Latapy, Paatelainen and Lovell were all to be out of contract and wouldn't sign new ones. Maybe Petrie had started his tricks by then? Sauzee had started picking up the odd injury and wasn't quite as good as he had been (then didn't play much at all at the start of the following season).

The loss of Latapy, Paatelainen and (essentially) Sauzee ripped a very strong spine out of that team. It was always going to be tough to replace players of that quality and tbh we probably didn't appreciate the likes of Brewster, Luna and Doumbe until much later.

What we would learn a bit more about later though is what happens when you replace good players with ones of inferior quality. And I'm not convinced that the manager is always the one to blame for this happening.

My memory is a bit hazy, but did our shocking loss of form that season not coincide with Brewster being out injured with a shoulder injury? I remember Brewster being a brilliant player for us, and we started that season pretty well. After the AEK game in October ish, it all seemed to go downhill, and McLeish didnt seem to know who is best team was,

Pretty Boy
27-11-2015, 02:08 PM
There's no doubt that things had turned and were going downhill before he left, and that that decline had started halfway through the previous season.

I don't know how much of this could be attributed to McLeish though? The second season back up we started brilliantly. But there were a lot of players who were due to be out of contract at the end of that season and speculation had started as to whether or not they'd leave. I got the feeling that at the start of that season the squad were a tight-knit bunch (remember the skinheads on the pre-season tour etc). But I think egos and attitudes started to get in the way - Latapy, Paatelainen and Lovell were all to be out of contract and wouldn't sign new ones. Maybe Petrie had started his tricks by then? Sauzee had started picking up the odd injury and wasn't quite as good as he had been (then didn't play much at all at the start of the following season).

The loss of Latapy, Paatelainen and (essentially) Sauzee ripped a very strong spine out of that team. It was always going to be tough to replace players of that quality and tbh we probably didn't appreciate the likes of Brewster, Luna and Doumbe until much later.

What we would learn a bit more about later though is what happens when you replace good players with ones of inferior quality. And I'm not convinced that the manager is always the one to blame for this happening.

That seems a pretty fair assessment.

cabbageandribs1875
27-11-2015, 02:15 PM
imo eck McLeish is the last manager we have had that could turn a game around with his HT change of tactics etc, also a superb player for club and country...respect, stubbsy is also showing he can have a positive effect on 2nd half performances by switching things around at HT

Thecat23
27-11-2015, 02:27 PM
Sorry mate, i didn't mean to suggest you were slating him, that was more a general comment responding to some other posts.

Yeah its true what you say about money, but relative to the other teams, i doubt we were much, if any better off than we were during Mowbray's era. Hearts had the SMG money on top of their standard debt running up, we were running up debt, teams like Motherwell (John Spencer et al), Kilmarnock (Christophe Cocard), Dundee (Caniggia etc), Livingston (David Fernandez et al), and of course by far the stongest Celtic team in living memory, and a Rangers team that had Kanchelskis, Van Bronckhorst etc.

Definitely agree with others that the way he left was disappointing, but a degree of his poor legacy was about how we (mis) managed his departure and the transition to Sauzee as well IMO.

Agree with you, best Hibs team i have ever seen.

No worries mate, hopefully we will be speaking foundly off Stubbs in years to come as well. I think when we go up we'll be a top six side no problem. Maybe even a cup win under his belt too 😁

Sammy7nil
27-11-2015, 03:24 PM
Sorry but I like Alex McLeish. Good guy when I met him.

I met him a few times he was full of himself, i was at a dinner sat at the sam table i asked him if Russell was staying he said if i was you i would be more worried about me staying :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Stevie Reid
27-11-2015, 03:38 PM
My memory is a bit hazy, but did our shocking loss of form that season not coincide with Brewster being out injured with a shoulder injury? I remember Brewster being a brilliant player for us, and we started that season pretty well. After the AEK game in October ish, it all seemed to go downhill, and McLeish didnt seem to know who is best team was,

Correct, we didn't win for 17 matches and Brewster missed 13 of those. He came back into the side when Williamson was manager, and O'Connor started scoring and we started winning. McLeish did make some curious decisions that third season back in the SPL, such as playing Laursen at centre back and Murray at left wing back, when they looked much better the other way around. Laursen's marauding runs had been a huge factor in our success the previous season. He left a decent squad with goals in it, but Sauzee becoming manager and retiring from playing (to quote Ted Brack) robbed us of our best defender and most creative player in one fell swoop - and we really suffered.

I am always amazed at how much people hang on to his 'I'm here as long as you want me' remark. He made that statement when addressing the crowd at ER after we had played our last game in the First Division, and there was speculation linking him with the Aberdeen job, and assistant to Fergie at Man Utd. Him saying that was to allow us to relax and enjoy the occasion and look forward to the season ahead, without the fear that our manager, who had revitalised us so superbly, was going to leave imminently.

Regardless of how much money he spent, he restored a huge amount of pride in our club at a time when we were at a very low ebb, and ended up building a team that was the strongest in my lifetime - and contained two of the best players ever to play for us. The only time I've ever felt confident going into derbies was under McLeish, he should be remembered fondly for his derby record and the 6-2 game alone - never mind everything else.

I have no ill feeling towards him at all. If every manager we had went on another job because he had done so well for us, we'd be doing no bad.

Mr White
27-11-2015, 05:30 PM
Correct, we didn't win for 17 matches and Brewster missed 13 of those. He came back into the side when Williamson was manager, and O'Connor started scoring and we started winning. McLeish did make some curious decisions that third season back in the SPL, such as playing Laursen at centre back and Murray at left wing back, when they looked much better the other way around. Laursen's marauding runs had been a huge factor in our success the previous season. He left a decent squad with goals in it, but Sauzee becoming manager and retiring from playing (to quote Ted Brack) robbed us of our best defender and most creative player in one fell swoop - and we really suffered.

I am always amazed at how much people hang on to his 'I'm here as long as you want me' remark. He made that statement when addressing the crowd at ER after we had played our last game in the First Division, and there was speculation linking him with the Aberdeen job, and assistant to Fergie at Man Utd. Him saying that was to allow us to relax and enjoy the occasion and look forward to the season ahead, without the fear that our manager, who had revitalised us so superbly, was going to leave imminently.

Regardless of how much money he spent, he restored a huge amount of pride in our club at a time when we were at a very low ebb, and ended up building a team that was the strongest in my lifetime - and contained two of the best players ever to play for us. The only time I've ever felt confident going into derbies was under McLeish, he should be remembered fondly for his derby record and the 6-2 game alone - never mind everything else.

I have no ill feeling towards him at all. If every manager we had went on another job because he had done so well for us, we'd be doing no bad.

Very true about the derbies. Only one he lost was a last day of the season dead rubber. Outstanding derby form by our standards during his spell as manager and I saw my first and then 3 best derby wins during that time.

eastterrace
27-11-2015, 06:58 PM
I mind that game. Beaten 1-0 at home. Mind you, their goal was a screamer.
take it you left early.

eezyrider
27-11-2015, 08:29 PM
Mcleish was a great manager at the start but we were murder a lot if the time for the last 11 - 12 months of his time in charge. How many games did we win in that time? Very few if I recall.

EZ

renato
27-11-2015, 09:24 PM
McLeish's record against the savilles...

5 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss.
19 goals scored, 9 conceded.

Obviously included the two most comprehensive thumpings we've given them in my lifetime (6-2 and 0-3), both of which we could have hit another 3 or 4 goals in and they couldn't have complained. Only an outstanding goalie in Niemi kept them from complete drubbings.

Given both Edinburgh clubs were financially "doping" at the time, it's probably little surprise that one of the few times in the last 30 years we managed to play them on an even keel financially, we managed to dominate them on the park.

Alex was a good manager for us and if Stubbs can get us promoted this season, we'd all be delighted if he can start to dominate the derbies like McLeish did.

Tom Hart RIP
27-11-2015, 10:38 PM
He is the only manager since Eddie Turnbull to make me feel confident going into a derby.

Forza Fred
28-11-2015, 05:52 AM
I met him a few times he was full of himself, i was at a dinner sat at the sam table i asked him if Russell was staying he said if i was you i would be more worried about me staying :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I never met him in person but had reason to speak to him on the phone about a player from Australia who was trialling with Hibs at the time.....the conversation went on to Hibs in general and he was only too happy to talk....even when he said..."let me just take this putt so I don't hold them up behind us'....yes he had even been accommodating to speak to a punter's questions about Hibs while on the golf course.....hardly the actions of someone up himself I thought.:agree:

DH1875
28-11-2015, 08:33 AM
Are you only a Judas if you go to rangers? What about the ex players/managers who have gone to celtic or down south?

givescotlandfreedom
29-11-2015, 12:36 AM
Are you only a Judas if you go to rangers? What about the ex players/managers who have gone to celtic or down south?

It seems some players got it the opposite way round. Steven Whittaker never got a really hard time at ER in a Hun shirt whilst Caldwell got pelters for the other mob.

J-C
29-11-2015, 11:23 AM
It seems some players got it the opposite way round. Steven Whittaker never got a really hard time at ER in a Hun shirt whilst Caldwell got pelters for the other mob.


Because he was sold for a profit and never actually asked for a transfer and was a replacement for the outgoing Hutton, 174 games for Hibs and a good servant when he was here.