Minutes silence on Tuesday ?

[Ringothedog]

Should we have a minutes silence on Tuesday in memory/support of the victims and their families last night. I believe we should.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yes

Apart from the fact that we should in any case, we have had a number of French players in the past and Dom Malonga was raised in Paris.

[Future17]

My gut feeling is yes, but the question will inevitably be asked about where you draw the line. The events in Paris are horrific, but horrific events happen regularly around the world with mass loss of life and we don't have silences for those.

If it were to be a club decision, rather than an SFA one, I think Nae Nookie makes a valid point. We have a relationship with France because of the players we've had from there in recent history and I think it would be appropriate to acknowledge the pain their nation will be feeling.

[whiskyhibby]

Yes is my gut feeling

[hfc rd]

Yes I think we should.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would this also be in memory of those who died in Beirut?

[CB_NO3]

Never in a million years. Keep this away from football. Why does the OP not mention the bomb that killed 43 in Lebanon yesterday?

[Peevemor]

Yes. Last night it was Paris. Where next? This affects us all.

[Ringothedog]

Would this also be in memory of those who died in Beirut?

When you have a minutes silence your thoughts are your own, you can remember and respect the fallen wherever and whenever it happened.

[CropleyWasGod]

When you have a minutes silence your thoughts are your own, you can remember and respect the fallen wherever and whenever it happened.

You specifically mentioned Paris, though.

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but my point is "why Paris?" Is it because of the proximity?

Had last night not happened, would we have had a minute's silence for Beirut? I would doubt that anyone would have even suggested it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Would this also be in memory of those who died in Beirut?

Yes .. why not.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes .. why not.

We've never done it in the past. Would we therefore be setting a precedent, and have one every time something similar happened in Baghdad or Bogota?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Never in a million years. Keep this away from football. Why does the OP not mention the bomb that killed 43 in Lebanon yesterday?

I'm sure the people at the Stade de France last night would fully agree with you. Unfortunately it appears the terrorists don't.

[Godsahibby]

I certainly hope we don't.

[Future17]

You specifically mentioned Paris, though.

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but my point is "why Paris?" Is it because of the proximity?

Had last night not happened, would we have had a minute's silence for Beirut? I would doubt that anyone would have even suggested it.

I think part of it probably is proximity, as well as cultural and historical links.

As I said in my previous post, horrific things happen the world over on an all-too-regular basis, but right or wrongly, the connection to places like Paris seems stronger to me than the connection to Beirut.

I'm not saying that's how it should be (indeed that may be part of the greater problem which led to the attacks) but just being honest about how I feel.

I have a feeling this thread will quickly become political, which is a shame, so I will bow out now.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think part of it probably is proximity, as well as cultural and historical links.

As I said in my previous post, horrific things happen the world over on an all-too-regular basis, but right or wrongly, the connection to places like Paris seems stronger to me than the connection to Beirut.

I'm not saying that's how it should be (indeed that may be part of the greater problem which led to the attacks) but just being honest about how I feel.

I have a feeling this thread will quickly become political, which is a shame, so I will bow out now.

Me too. It is an emotive subject, and one that comes up far too regularly. I suspect there is no "right" answer, only opinions.

[Onceinawhile]

On a related note the Paisley Christmas lights switch on has been cancelled as a mark of respect.

Is it just me or is that mental?

A grieving relative in Paris going -ah but at least they didn't switch the lights on in Paisley.

[Ringothedog]

You specifically mentioned Paris, though.

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but my point is "why Paris?" Is it because of the proximity?

Had last night not happened, would we have had a minute's silence for Beirut? I would doubt that anyone would have even suggested it.

I never mentioned Paris. In answer to your second point, I would very much doubt it as atrocities like that are all too common in the middle east and we as a society have become desensitised to it happening, it's only when it happens close to home does the reality set in.

This has actually become a moot point as it appears that all leagues in Europe are having a minutes silence this weekend.

[Bishop Hibee]

I think minutes silences at football should be for football related things only.

[CropleyWasGod]

I never mentioned Paris. In answer to your second point, I would very much doubt it as atrocities like that are all too common in the middle east and we as a society have become desensitised to it happening, it's only when it happens close to home does the reality set in.

This has actually become a moot point as it appears that all leagues in Europe are having a minutes silence this weekend.

Sorry, you said "Should we have a minutes silence on Tuesday in memory/support of the victims and their families last night."

I assumed you meant Paris :agree:

However, I take your point about the "closer to home" bit. It's a part of human nature, albeit not one I necessarily admire.

[Blaster]

For me the proximity means there may be Scottish/British casualties and that's why it means more than the other atrocities mentioned

As someone else said its all about opinions but I believe we should have one

[NAE NOOKIE]

We've never done it in the past. Would we therefore be setting a precedent, and have one every time something similar happened in Baghdad or Bogota?

I get what you mean, I really do. But I think someone made the point about 'proximity' ..... I would bet that if you ran a poll asking how many on here have been to Paris you would have a decent number of folk saying yes.

It is about solidarity as well and rightly or wrongly many people feel closer to France than the likes of Baghdad or Bogota. Its a minor ( very minor ) irony that some of the things attacked last night were all close to my heart.

A football stadium
A pub / restaurant
A Heavy metal concert

For me that's worth a minute of my time.

[hibsbollah]

Whatever we individually think, there will be one on Tuesday without a doubt.

[CB_NO3]

I get what you mean, I really do. But I think someone made the point about 'proximity' ..... I would bet that if you ran a poll asking how many on here have been to Paris you would have a decent number of folk saying yes.

It is about solidarity as well and rightly or wrongly many people feel closer to France than the likes of Baghdad or Bogota. Its a minor ( very minor ) irony that some of the things attacked last night were all close to my heart.

A football stadium
A pub / restaurant
A Heavy metal concert

For me that's worth a minute of my time.

There has been 300 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Why did we not have a minute silence for them?

[PISTOL1875]

Minutes silences in football should be for football related matters only...

[Ringothedog]

Minutes silences in football should be for football related matters only...

Using that logic we would not have have had a minutes silence prior to the game last week.

[nonshinyfinish]

Sorry, you said "Should we have a minutes silence on Tuesday in memory/support of the victims and their families last night."

I assumed you meant Paris :agree:

However, I take your point about the "closer to home" bit. It's a part of human nature, albeit not one I necessarily admire.

I had similar thoughts about Beirut last night – that there are parts of the world where atrocities like this are almost a regular occurrence rather than a startling one-off, and the inherent hypocrisy in the fact that they never garner the blanket media coverage that attacks in the west do.

That, however, is all theoretical, and I suspect that few of us could honestly deny that our emotional response to the Paris attacks was much stronger than it would be to an atrocity with a similar loss of life in some far-flung country where we 'expect' these things to happen.

It's impossible to draw a definitive line between what does and doesn't merit a silence at Easter Road: only football-related? Sure, but that rules out things like the death of a head of state, and prepare for an almighty stramash when a game falls on 11th November. Tragedy within a 100-mile radius of Leith? Obviously absurd, and anyway that's just the same 'closer to home' argument. Only something with a connection to the club? OK, but what counts as a connection? I (presumably like loads of folk on here) have friends in Paris (they're fine), and there will be Hibbies living in Paris – but then there will be Hibbies in Beirut too (and in fact my sister lived there until last weekend).

Ultimately it will always be necessary to decide these things case-by-case (here it sounds like the decision has been made very easy if it's going to be happening across Europe), and that should probably take into account all the things mentioned here – is there a club connection, a football connection, but also what is the level of the football going public's response/outcry to what's happened? And yes, like it or not, that last one will inevitably be higher when it's close to home.

[Super_JMcGinn]

There has been 300 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Why did we not have a minute silence for them?
300 this year alone ?

[PISTOL1875]

Using that logic we would not have have had a minutes silence prior to the game last week.


That is correct yes...

[nonshinyfinish]

300 this year alone ?

Yes. The definition is that four or more people (potentially including the shooter) are killed.

[Andy74]

I think minutes silences at football should be for football related things only.

Same here. It's getting a bit OTT. They are terrible things of course but since when did football become the place to have to mark everything that goes on in the world?

[CropleyWasGod]

Same here. It's getting a bit OTT. They are terrible things of course but since when did football become the place to have to mark everything that goes on in the world?

The counter-argument would be that part of last night's events unfolded in the Stade de France, at a football match.

[Malthibby]

The counter-argument would be that part of last night's events unfolded in the Stade de France, at a football match.

What he said. A minute's silence would be a small nod towards the victims in Paris. It's about solidarity, & being
aware it could be us next.
This is a war, whether we like it or not.

[Andy74]

The counter-argument would be that part of last night's events unfolded in the Stade de France, at a football match.

Although it was just the 3 bombers who died there.

I would respect one of course if it was agreed but I don't get the need to push for these things all the time.

It gets to the stage like the poppy thing that it becomes less of a choice and the pressure is put on those who don't. It just becomes a process.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There has been 300 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Why did we not have a minute silence for them?

Yes .... they are a human tragedy and America's shame... true insanity.

Its obvious you cant have a minutes silence for everything. I'm sure most people will be happy to do so in this instance, as 18,000 people have just done in Wigan before the Rugby league.

I suppose you can look at it like this. A guy in my street gets killed in a car crash I can still feel for his wife and kids without going to the funeral. If he's my friend I go. Its probably that simple.

[bingo70]

Yes, imo it just feels like the right thing to do.

[lucky]

Minutes silence today at Cheltenham and jockeys wearing black armbands. It's not a lot to ask for us to show our respect on Tuesday.

[CB_NO3]

So we should show respect for the tragedy in France as its over the water but not bother about the tragedy in Lebanon. What a bunch of typical ignorant Brits.

[Andy74]

Minutes silence today at Cheltenham and jockeys wearing black armbands. It's not a lot to ask for us to show our respect on Tuesday.

I know you didn't mean it this way but lines like it's not a lot to ask I think are what bothers me. It becomes people's problem if they wouldn't necessarily want a silence. Of course it's not much to ask but it shouldn't be pushed on to people in that way like there's something wrong with you if you wouldn't want it marked at a football game.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yes, imo it just feels like the right thing to do.


I am 100% against minute silences for what i'd describe as non footballing tragedy's, but there are some events that just seem deserving of every sensible human being, every institution or body taking a minute out of their schedule to show their sorrow and support.

This is one in my opinion.

[greenlex]

I am 100% against minute silences for what i'd describe as non footballing tragedy's, but there are some events that just seem deserving of every sensible human being, every institution or body taking a minute out of their schedule to show their sorrow and support.

This is one in my opinion.
I kind of agree with this Blackpool. The problem is where do you draw the line. Who makes the call? Keep it football related IMO and we all know where we stand and it can in no way be pidgeon holed as political. I am sure there will be other opportuinities to have your own thoughts and/or mark your respects if you feel the need or want to do it publicly.

[MB62]

Never in a million years. Keep this away from football. Why does the OP not mention the bomb that killed 43 in Lebanon yesterday?

This is the first I have heard of this and can't find anything about it on the BBC website. Would you be able to post a link to the story please?

BTW, I do think we should be having a minutes silence. There was also an attack at a football match and I believe we should at least recognise that.

[lucky]

I know you didn't mean it this way but lines like it's not a lot to ask I think are what bothers me. It becomes people's problem if they wouldn't necessarily want a silence. Of course it's not much to ask but it shouldn't be pushed on to people in that way like there's something wrong with you if you wouldn't want it marked at a football game.

A small gesture by around 9000 football fans in Edinburgh by showing respect. I don't get why anyone attending would not want to show respect. I appreciate that there are other incidents around the world that equally deserve recognition

[Keith_M]

I think minutes silences at football should be for football related things only.

:agree:


Otherwise you never know where to draw the line.

Are the lives of 3,000 people killed in a terrorist attack in the US(for which we held a minute's silence) more or less valuable than the 17,000 Japanese killed in a Tsunami (for which we didn't)?

[LancsHibs]

This is a football related incident, one of the targets was the France v Germany match. Two bombs went off outside the stadium killing 3. Not sure if the victims were football fans or not but RIP.

[bod]

the SPFL should make a statement on whether there's one or not

[Sir David Gray]

I personally feel that minute's silences should be limited to football related deaths, tragedies which occur in the UK, Remembrance Day and also when the Head of State passes away.

Although I am absolutely horrified by the events in Paris last night, if we held a minute's silence every time a terrorist attack took place, we would be having one almost every week.

My thoughts are with the French people today but I personally don't think Scottish football needs to get involved.

[Iggy Pope]

:agree:


Otherwise you never know where to draw the line.

Are the lives of 3,000 people killed in a terrorist attack in the US(for which we held a minute's silence) more or less valuable than the 17,000 Japanese killed in a Tsunami (for which we didn't)?

A good point. Wider.

Following the loss of those US lives some of us were stuck abroad for a Hibs game that was postponed out of respect for events that happened on another continent.. This still rankles with me. Not a penny in compensation either.

We all went to the Dundee United game not long after having watched a differentTsunami and the (utter) devastation on another continent unfold on the TV. Many of us remained pished all day as Hibs happily battered them.

Consider also the cancellation of the National side fixture due to a 'state' funeral occurring 450 miles away, necessitated by the entirely avoidable death of an ex-Royal / non- Royal on a night out with her Arab boyfriend and caused either by drunk driving, or misadventure, or at worst conspiracy whatever you believe. Maybe all three. The zealots never had ISIS to blame for that one at the time!

Time respect was back in the hands of the individual, rather than the media and I am sick of it getting forced down my neck.

[Andy74]

This is a football related incident, one of the targets was the France v Germany match. Two bombs went off outside the stadium killing 3. Not sure if the victims were football fans or not but RIP.

Those 3 were the terrorists.

[Nameless]

So we should show respect for the tragedy in France as its over the water but not bother about the tragedy in Lebanon. What a bunch of typical ignorant Brits.

You're just itching for an argument aren't you? What's your problem? Go on, there's your in, get it out your system, and try to use as many lazy generalisations as possible - ignorant brits was a good start....

[CB_NO3]

You're just itching for an argument aren't you? What's your problem? Go on, there's your in, get it out your system, and try to use as many lazy generalisations as possible - ignorant brits was a good start....
Am I wrong? Some folk on this forum are not even aware there was 46 murdered and over 200 injured in mass bombing in Lebanon on Thursday. Why? Because its not on Sky news. My point is if we don't have a minute silence for a bombing in Lebanon or mass shootings in the USA then why should we have one because of an attack in Paris? Its just sheer hypocrisy. You either do it for all or do it for none.

[Nameless]

Am I wrong? Some folk on this forum are not even aware there was 46 murdered and over 200 injured in mass bombing in Lebanon on Thursday. Why? Because its not on Sky news. My point is if we don't have a minute silence for a bombing in Lebanon or mass shootings in the USA then why should we have one because of an attack in Paris? Its just sheer hypocrisy. You either do it for all or do it for none.

No, you're not wrong about Sky News, or the BBC for that matter. We are handled by the mass media, in the same way Fox and NBC manipulate the American news. I don't think we should have a minutes silence, ever, but I would still respect one on Tuesday. My issue was the ignorant brits comment, as it seems condescending to anyone who isn't up to date with the latest atrocity.

[Geo_1875]

I personally feel that minute's silences should be limited to football related deaths, tragedies which occur in the UK, Remembrance Day and also when the Head of State passes away.

Although I am absolutely horrified by the events in Paris last night, if we held a minute's silence every time a terrorist attack took place, we would be having one almost every week.

My thoughts are with the French people today but I personally don't think Scottish football needs to get involved.

Remembrance Day is fine if your match is at 11:00 on 11/11

But we have groups of 1,000's having a potential 3rd minutes silence forced on them with the potential for disruption.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Absolutely.

[Dashing Bob S]

I can see the appeal; football stadiums are the new churches of our time, and probably the only place people can now really gather on mass in our increasingly individualised, atomised society. It seems intuitively the right thing to do, to stand together as human beings, respect the dead, and show people who choose to further their aims by the slaughter of others that we stand against them.

That said, I'm most certainly against it, as I am against most minutes of silence. Sport has long been appropriated by all sorts of government, media and commercial interests and they are increasingly very quick to tell us what and when (and by definition what not and when not) to mourn, celebrate and show respect to. It increasingly smacks of manipulation and social engineering. I used to wear a poppy to respect the war dead, not any more. That has been hijacked by those who want to make Remembrance into a celebration of militarism and imperialism.

I'm scenting the same forces at work here.

Please - keep this away from football. Go to your local church and light a candle, or say a little prayer. If that's too religious for your tastes, then you can donate to/support ISIS terror victims in a number of ways: https://www.mnnonline.org/news/how-to-help-isis-victims/

[Hiber-nation]

Why the hell do folk get so worked out about stuff like this. It's not as if it's going to spoil their enjoyment of the game. If it's something I totally disagree with (which is extremely unlikely) then I'll wait in the concourse till it's over.

[--------]

I can see the appeal; football stadiums are the new churches of our time, and probably the only place people can now really gather on mass in our increasingly individualised, atomised society. It seems intuitively the right thing to do, to stand together as human beings, respect the dead, and show people who choose to further their aims by the slaughter of others that we stand against them.

That said, I'm most certainly against it, as I am against most minutes of silence. Sport has long been appropriated by all sorts of government, media and commercial interests and they are increasingly very quick to tell us what and when (and by definition what not and when not) to mourn, celebrate and show respect to. It increasingly smacks of manipulation and social engineering. I used to wear a poppy to respect the war dead, not any more. That has been hijacked by those who want to make Remembrance into a celebration of militarism and imperialism.

I'm scenting the same forces at work here.

Please - keep this away from football. Go to your local church and light a candle, or say a little prayer. If that's too religious for your tastes, then you can donate to/support ISIS terror victims in a number of ways: https://www.mnnonline.org/news/how-to-help-isis-victims/


Very much agree, Bob. Especially with your second paragraph.

Thanks for the link, too. :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

We shouldn't imo but if we do I will of course respect it.

My reasons have been covered far more eloquently by others already.

[hibee_girl]

Why the hell do folk get so worked out about stuff like this. It's not as if it's going to spoil their enjoyment of the game. If it's something I totally disagree with (which is extremely unlikely) then I'll wait in the concourse till it's over.

Exactly :agree:

[chrisski33]

Absoulutely nothing wrong with having a minutes silence whether its football matter or not! Is it really that hard a thought to be silent for 1 minute to remember folk who have died from terrorists or war etc. Its not a hard act to do

[Hibby Bairn]

A good point. Wider.

Following the loss of those US lives some of us were stuck abroad for a Hibs game that was postponed out of respect for events that happened on another continent.. This still rankles with me. Not a penny in compensation either.
.

LOL. You're not wrong there. £500 for a night out in Athens. My wife still doesn't believe the plane left Edinburgh and I just went on the ran dan for 48 hours.

Good sing song though 🍻😮

[Andy74]

Absoulutely nothing wrong with having a minutes silence whether its football matter or not! Is it really that hard a thought to be silent for 1 minute to remember folk who have died from terrorists or war etc. Its not a hard act to do

Lots of things aren't difficult to do. It's a poor form of argument and it's this type of dismissive attitude that is the thing that puts me off these things.

[Gatecrasher]

I think one will probably happen I think football should be for just that but there was more support for a political banner at ER than there is for a moments respect and solidarity for the people of France considering one of the attacks last night was on a football stadium I know what one has more to do with football.

[FromTheCapital]

I'd have one. Last night was the largest massacre in Paris (or maybe even the whole of France) since WW2 and with big Dom being born and raised there, I think it would be a suitable thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wookie70]

Although it was just the 3 bombers who died there.

I would respect one of course if it was agreed but I don't get the need to push for these things all the time.

It gets to the stage like the poppy thing that it becomes less of a choice and the pressure is put on those who don't. It just becomes a process.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above. I'll respect any silence but if we are going to mourn for those killed in the Paris Atrocities then I would like to have the chance to stand silent for all atrocities and that would essentially mean every game.

Lets keep it for remembrance associated with Football.

I would like to have a day where we have a remembrance day which has no political or other association. It would be for remembering everyone and anyone who has passed whether through war,crime, illness or old age. That way it can bring us together and not drive us apart. Its practical, poignant and completely inclusive. Perhaps Tuesday could be the start of this and we could use next year's remembrance silence to show respect to everyone whether lost in war or otherwise.

[Carheenlea]

Sometimes events are such that it just feels the appropriate action to take without too much consideration.

[FranckSuzy]

I think one will probably happen I think football should be for just that but there was more support for a political banner at ER than there is for a moments respect and solidarity for the people of France considering one of the attacks last night was on a football stadium I know what one has more to do with football.

Not meaning to be arsey here :greengrin but re the parts in bold...the day the banner was displayed was recognised as a Europe-wide show of solidarity with refugees via the vehicle that is football. Plus, given our club's proud history of helping those in need, IMHO it was entirely relevant :aok:

[Itsnoteasy]

http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Iggy Pope http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=4504156#post4504156) This quote is hidden because you are ignoring (http://www.hibs.net/profile.php?do=ignorelist) this member. Show Quote (http://www.hibs.net/javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E://)
A good point. Wider.

Following the loss of those US lives some of us were stuck abroad for a Hibs game that was postponed out of respect for events that happened on another continent.. This still rankles with me. Not a penny in compensation either.
.
LOL. You're not wrong there. £500 for a night out in Athens. My wife still doesn't believe the plane left Edinburgh and I just went on the ran dan for 48 hours.

Good sing song though 🍻😮


Dearest and probably scariest game I have ever been to. Plane just landed and was told game was cancelled. Funny how plane carrying team never left Edinburgh airport. Went back following week to Athens. Probably about £1000 to see a game of fitbaw.

[Gatecrasher]

Not meaning to be arsey here :greengrin but re the parts in bold...the day the banner was displayed was recognised as a Europe-wide show of solidarity with refugees via the vehicle that is football. Plus, given our club's proud history of helping those in need, IMHO it was entirely relevant :aok:
The point still stands IMO, there was a lot of support for that banner on here but less for moments silence for what happened last night, why?

[HibsMax]

On a related note the Paisley Christmas lights switch on has been cancelled as a mark of respect.

Is it just me or is that mental?

A grieving relative in Paris going -ah but at least they didn't switch the lights on in Paisley.
I think the people who are grieving will take support from wherever possible, no matter how remote or how insignificant it might appear to some.

[Scouse Hibee]

There are instances when you don't necessarily agree with something 100% but go along with it anyway. For me this is one such instance.

[HibsMax]

I understand both sides of the debate but I really feel that showing support at a difficult time like this is the right thing to do. France is a neighbour and an ally. We've had our differences in the past but this is an attack on a European country. A fellow EU member. That should mean something.

For those people making comments about not holding a minutes silence for other things that happen around the world, think about it for a moment. Of course proximity matters. A building collapse in Bangladesh is just as tragic as a building collapse in Edinburgh but I am sure most local people would be more affected by the second event. Holding a minutes silence for a tragic event is usually meant to show respect / support, not meant to demean the importance of other similar events.

[HibbyRod]

I find it unbelieveable that Hibs fans would not hold a minutes silence for such an horrific atrocity against the French nation.

No need to go into the rights and wrongs.

This should transcend any political arguments full stop!

Please do not disrespect France, and the vast majority of the whole of the world's sensitivities.

I am not religious in any way, however, it would be most disrespectful to a wonderful nation. Regardless of any other atrocities that we may just have found about elsewhere very recently.

Hibs, please do the right thing.

[snedzuk]

I'd have one. Last night was the largest massacre in Paris (or maybe even the whole of France) since WW2 and with big Dom being born and raised there, I think it would be a suitable thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...and Farid

[Bronson]

Minutes silences in football should be for football related matters only...

I'm inclined to agree with this. Otherwise where do you draw the line? We'd be having a minute's silence before the game every week because there are tragedies happening all over the world. What happened yesterday was awful, but it should be kept away from the football IMO.

[Andy74]

I'm inclined to agree with this. Otherwise where do you draw the line? We'd be having a minute's silence before the game every week because there are tragedies happening all over the world. What happened yesterday was awful, but it should be kept away from the football IMO.

Do they have them in theatres, cinemas and other public entertainment events?

I don't disagree about respect and so on but most of us are just going to a football game.

[FranckSuzy]

The point still stands IMO, there was a lot of support for that banner on here but less for moments silence for what happened last night, why?

Just taking a punt here but maybe some folk don't feel comfortable commenting either way on the situation, for fear of being criticised..? :dunno: I certainly feel like that; damned if you do and all that.

If you remember back to the banner debate, there were quite a few dissenting voices, so much so that there was a plea for those not agreeing to save their opinions for another thread, on another forum :wink:

[Hibby Bairn]

Do they have them in theatres, cinemas and other public entertainment events?

I don't disagree about respect and so on but most of us are just going to a football game.

Agreed.

[marinello59]

I was at a Highland League match today and they had a silence. I can't say I put any thought in to whether it should have been held or not. 124 families face years of pain and heartache after last night. I can spare a minute.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I was at a Highland League match today and they had a silence. I can't say I put any thought in to whether it should have been held or not. 124 families face years of pain and heartache after last night. I can spare a minute.

Sure Morton held a silence Today. Is it really to much to spare a thought for those that lost their live's going about their daily live's..........For Paris insert anywhere else, it is heartbreaking.............

[Hibby Bairn]

TBH if we were being consistent with all the stuff going on around the world we could have a minute's silence every week.

[HibbyRod]

TBH if we were being consistent with all the stuff going on around the world we could have a minute's silence every week.

So, do we not mark our respect all around the world ... just think about it!

Please get real people!

We are talking about out about our world! FFS!

[CropleyWasGod]

So, do we not mark our respect all around the world ... just think about it!

Please get real people!

We are talking about out about our world! FFS!

Generally, we don't.

We wouldn't have had any marking of the Beirut bomb, for example.

[HibbyRod]

Generally, we don't.

We wouldn't have had any knowledge/marking of the Beirut bomb, for example.

Whether we knew about the Beirut bomb's or not, what would be the result!!

Please don't let this atrocity to mask the atrocities of the bombings of the murders perpetrated!

So many French people have lost their lives.

This must have some significance to the world! Or, should be!

[HibbyRod]

Generally, we don't.

We wouldn't have had any marking of the Beirut bomb, for example.

Perhaps we should as human beings! :confused:

Beirut, or Paris!

[CropleyWasGod]

Whether we knew about the Beirut bomb's or not, what would be the result!!

Please don't let this atrocity to mask the atrocities of the bombings of the murders perpetrated!

So many French people have lost their lives.

This must have some significance to the world! Or, should be!

Curious why you changed my post to fit in in with your point.

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's getting a wee bit silly on here, a mass murder occurred not too far away from us. Yes we are at a sporting event on Tuesday.Forgiving the politics of it, it's not really a big ask to respect those that would like to pause for a minutes reflection.

[oconnors_strip]

If you don't agree with it then stay in the concourse until the minute is over.

[HibbyRod]

Curious why you changed my post to fit in in with your point.

What?!

What do you mean?

Genuinely, I do know what you mean?

Can we not know what the French have to endure!

Let's not have them wondering what has happened to them when we all know exactly what has happened, for goodness sacked"!!!!

Please do not try to justify the murderous acts perpetratred!

Anyone who defends this is deluding themselves.

Cheers, Rod.

[CropleyWasGod]

What?!

What do you mean?

Genuinely, I do know what you mean?

Can we not know what the French have to endure!

Let's not have them wondering what has happened to them when we all know exactly what has happened, for goodness sacked"!!!!

Please do not try to justify the murderous acts perpetratred!

Anyone who defends this is deluding themselves.

Cheers, Rod.

Read my post 83, and then your post 84 which quotes me. You changed my post.

As for justifying or defending, I have seen no-one, on here or anywhere (except in Daesh reported statement) doing that.

[God Petrie]

No one directly involved with the unquestionably tragic events in France cares one iota about what Hibs or the group of people defined as Hibs fans do.

Tha minutes silence is self indulgent and meaningless. I'll honor it if I happen to be there when it occurs but personally I couldn't care less about it.

[stoneyburn hibs]

No one directly involved with the unquestionably tragic events in France cares one iota about what Hibs or the group of people defined as Hibs fans do.

Tha minutes silence is self indulgent and meaningless. I'll honor it if I happen to be there when it occurs but personally I couldn't care less about it.

So you will be quite happy to be self indulgent and participate if it happens, seems quite meaningless.

[Andy74]

If you don't agree with it then stay in the concourse until the minute is over.

Yep that's freedom right enough!

[monktonharp]

This is the first I have heard of this and can't find anything about it on the BBC website. Would you be able to post a link to the story please?

BTW, I do think we should be having a minutes silence. There was also an attack at a football match and I believe we should at least recognise that.now there's a surprise. nowt on the bbc about Lebanon.

[HibbyRod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4504487]Read my post 83, and then your post 84 which quotes me. You changed my post.

As for justifying or defending our stance, I have seen no-one, on here or, anywhere else, we have pledged our alleigence to the French cause!

We will have to differ my friend!

As in France, we will defend ourselves, as will the British/French establishment (despite me being a Scottish Nationalist voter) we will go with the French thank you, right or wrong!

I hope most many Hibees will will follow me in observing a minutes silence on Tuesday night!

Cheers, Rod!!!

[ronaldo7]

A good point. Wider.

Following the loss of those US lives some of us were stuck abroad for a Hibs game that was postponed out of respect for events that happened on another continent.. This still rankles with me. Not a penny in compensation either.

We all went to the Dundee United game not long after having watched a differentTsunami and the (utter) devastation on another continent unfold on the TV. Many of us remained pished all day as Hibs happily battered them.

Consider also the cancellation of the National side fixture due to a 'state' funeral occurring 450 miles away, necessitated by the entirely avoidable death of an ex-Royal / non- Royal on a night out with her Arab boyfriend and caused either by drunk driving, or misadventure, or at worst conspiracy whatever you believe. Maybe all three. The zealots never had ISIS to blame for that one at the time!

Time respect was back in the hands of the individual, rather than the media and I am sick of it getting forced down my neck.


I can see the appeal; football stadiums are the new churches of our time, and probably the only place people can now really gather on mass in our increasingly individualised, atomised society. It seems intuitively the right thing to do, to stand together as human beings, respect the dead, and show people who choose to further their aims by the slaughter of others that we stand against them.

That said, I'm most certainly against it, as I am against most minutes of silence. Sport has long been appropriated by all sorts of government, media and commercial interests and they are increasingly very quick to tell us what and when (and by definition what not and when not) to mourn, celebrate and show respect to. It increasingly smacks of manipulation and social engineering. I used to wear a poppy to respect the war dead, not any more. That has been hijacked by those who want to make Remembrance into a celebration of militarism and imperialism.

I'm scenting the same forces at work here.

Please - keep this away from football. Go to your local church and light a candle, or say a little prayer. If that's too religious for your tastes, then you can donate to/support ISIS terror victims in a number of ways: https://www.mnnonline.org/news/how-to-help-isis-victims/


If the wider Hibs community wish to hold a minutes silence then so be it, I'd hold it alongside my fellow fans. It seems to me that the more media coverage of things closer to us, the more we think we should be involved. Maybe we should be involved in "All" suffering around the world.

Only last month in Turkey, many people died. Did anyone ask for a minutes silence then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34498497

Did we have a minutes silence in the first match this season after the shootings in Tunisia...No, why not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33287978

As I've said, If the SFA or Hibs decide to hold a minutes silence, I'm sure it would be observed impeccably.

I hope all those affected by all the attacks in the world get some peace in the future.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4504487]Read my post 83, and then your post 84 which quotes me. You changed my post.

As for justifying or defending our stance, I have seen no-one, on here or, anywhere else, we have pledged our alleigence to the French cause!

We will have to differ my friend!

As in France, we will defend ourselves, as will the British/French establishment (despite me being a Scottish Nationalist voter) we will go with the French thank you, right or wrong!

I hope most many Hibees will will follow me in observing a minutes silence on Tuesday night!

Cheers, Rod!!!

You've done it again. :confused:

[Betty Boop]

Generally, we don't.

We wouldn't have had any marking of the Beirut bomb, for example.
Or the victims of the Russian plane that was brought down in Sharm.

[monktonharp]

I personally feel that minute's silences should be limited to football related deaths, tragedies which occur in the UK, Remembrance Day and also when the Head of State passes away.

Although I am absolutely horrified by the events in Paris last night, if we held a minute's silence every time a terrorist attack took place, we would be having one almost every week.

My thoughts are with the French people today but I personally don't think Scottish football needs to get involved.Remembrance day already has an official minute's silence and has had, since the end of the war to end wars if I am correct? at the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day, a minute's silence. (in the 11th month). others are welcome to correct me. Also, when we were at Hampden some years ago, we observed a minute's silence for the death of the then Pope, except for some half-wit in the Hibs end who decided to blurt out ... **** the Pope. the head of which state? I will reserve my judgement on that one, for this minute.

[HibbyRod]

[QUOTE=HibbyRod;4504501]

You've done it again. :confused:What are you on about! :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4504504]What are you on about! :-)

You changed my post again.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Just taking a punt here but maybe some folk don't feel comfortable commenting either way on the situation, for fear of being criticised..? :dunno: I certainly feel like that; damned if you do and all that.

If you remember back to the banner debate, there were quite a few dissenting voices, so much so that there was a plea for those not agreeing to save their opinions for another thread, on another forum :wink:

Anyone know if there are plans for the "refugees welcome" banner be displayed during the silence?
I'm not trolling here - I think this illustrates the challenge our society faces - the slogans and Facebook profile updates versus the reality of what it is to truly stand up for what folks claim they believe in despite the rumours and scaremongering trying to create division.
These are the dilemmas thrown up when such initiatives are taken on.

[FranckSuzy]

Anyone know if there are plans for the "refugees welcome" banner be displayed during the silence?
I'm not trolling here - I think this illustrates the challenge our society faces - the slogans and Facebook profile updates versus the reality of what it is to truly stand up for what folks claim they believe in despite the rumours and scaremongering trying to create division.
These are the dilemmas thrown up when such initiatives are taken on.

Short answer, no it won't be :greengrin It was donated to the 'Edinburgh Sees Syria' movement after that game. Also, we don't - as far as I am aware - even know if there will be a minutes silence on Tues yet.....

[Bronson]

No one directly involved with the unquestionably tragic events in France cares one iota about what Hibs or the group of people defined as Hibs fans do.

Tha minutes silence is self indulgent and meaningless. I'll honor it if I happen to be there when it occurs but personally I couldn't care less about it.

This.

[HibbyRod]

[QUOTE=HibbyRod;4504509]

You changed my post again.

Really, what on earth are you on about!

France has endured an exceptional attack! what is so difficult to understand!?
Really FFS!?

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4504510]

Really, what on earth are you on about!

France has endured an exceptional attack! what is so difficult to understand!?
Really FFS!?

Okay, I shall be charitable and leave you be. Maybe you'll see it differently in the morning :greengrin

[CB_NO3]

Generally, we don't.

We wouldn't have had any marking of the Beirut bomb, for example.
Or the plane that got shot down by the yanks/russians/ukranians/no one even knows.

[wookie70]

If you don't agree with it then stay in the concourse until the minute is over.

Or you could privately hold a silence whilst I take my seat at a football game. I'll respect the silence as will my kids but it is this type of forcing and guilt tripping that puts me off these specific acts of remembrance.

[Ringothedog]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.

I couldn't agree more Eddie.

[Scouse Hibee]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.

Yes totally agree, I have observed many silences for various reasons and took part in minutes applauses for people I didn't know or relate to but not once have I ever questioned why.In my own mind I have done the respectful thing and contributed positively to every such occasion no matter where it took place.

[rcarter1]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.

I'd be surprised if the arguments against or apathetic to the minutes silence are by people who don't care. The argument is about why one tragedy is worthy of a minutes silence, and others are not (I think!). Not exactly a football topic, but then freedom of speech is a good thing.

As for there being some people who follow Hibs not being whiter than white. 10000+ folks, your going to get a wide spectrum of people. I think on the whole, Hibs fans compare OK with other clubs. :agree:

[CB_NO3]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.
Why did you not care about the Malaysian flight that got gunned down? Not muslim enough for you to notice?

[greenlex]

This whole thread is exactly the reason why it should be about the football family as and when needs sadly arise. Nothing to do with caring or not caring. Of course we all care. Of course it would be impeccably observed. The debate is the actual need for it at a football match.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why did you not care about the Malaysian flight that got gunned down? Not muslim enough for you to notice?

Pathetic

[CB_NO3]

Pathetic
Its a serious question. Doubt he will answer.

[Tinribs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32169080 147 kids at a Kenyan university murdered, buried in the lower reaches of the BBC news site.

I fully expect the same sort of outrage and sympathy from the Government, that we have seen from the Paris attack. Not.

Minutes silence is a lot of political bullpoo when it comes to stuff like this, i care about the dead Africans as much as i care about the dead Parisians, but the beeb don't give a crap about them.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTuQ-OVWIAQfMSq.jpg

[Pete]

Totally agree that there should be a silence. Football is the last thing I care about right now after watching so much coverage of these events that are so close to home.

It should be about France primarily but the other recent atrocities should also get a mention and therefore our thoughts.

I know what people mean when they disagree and it's like we have minutes applauses for dogs dying...but this is a big one IMO.

[God Petrie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTuQ-OVWIAQfMSq.jpg

Phew for a second there I thought this tragedy wasn't going to get a crass twitter meme for people to indulge in instead of actually doing something worthwhile.

[mikewynne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32169080 147 kids at a Kenyan university murdered, buried in the lower reaches of the BBC news site.

I fully expect the same sort of outrage and sympathy from the Government, that we have seen from the Paris attack. Not.

Minutes silence is a lot of political bullpoo when it comes to stuff like this, i care about the dead Africans as much as i care about the dead Parisians, but the beeb don't give a crap about them.

Were you complaining about the lack of coverage 6 months ago when this actually happened?

When people, the media or governments show sympathy for any tragedy that should be applauded, every time there is a mass tragedy in the west there in an outpouring of sympathy on social media, the western media, and our government, to my mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. When there are tragedies in other parts of the world that don't get the the same coverage that is the time to complain about the lack of outrage, not now.

[Ringothedog]

Why did you not care about the Malaysian flight that got gunned down? Not muslim enough for you to notice?

I see that you are now making sweeping assertions that I didn't care about the Malaysian flight being shot down and then bring religion into it. Wow.

This has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with compassion and showing solidarity with fellow human beings.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32169080 147 kids at a Kenyan university murdered, buried in the lower reaches of the BBC news site.

I fully expect the same sort of outrage and sympathy from the Government, that we have seen from the Paris attack. Not.

Minutes silence is a lot of political bullpoo when it comes to stuff like this, i care about the dead Africans as much as i care about the dead Parisians, but the beeb don't give a crap about them.

Maybe it's because it was back in April.... ?
the Internet produces strange reactions sometimes.
The latest on that is that the Kenyan military have been accused of indirectly financing...

[blackpoolhibs]

As i said earlier, this just feels right to have a show of respect from the whole football world. Why, it just does and any normal person with any feelings can't see it any other way in my opinion.

Atrocity's like this need to have the world come together and show solidarity.

The problem with this though, is we do pick our tragedy's, and ignore others which can't be right.

Saying all that, if we did have a minute silence for all the tragedies that happened and all the dignity's that died, we'd all need to get in half an hour before each game to fit them all in.

I'm going to contradict myself here, and say i do think there should be one for this, but i'm against having them for anything except football related things. :confused:

[Beefster]

Do they have them in theatres, cinemas and other public entertainment events?

I don't disagree about respect and so on but most of us are just going to a football game.

I felt the same way about the refugee banner but sometimes you just have to suck it up and let folk do what they want to do. Just like the banner, no-one is forced to take part.

I do hate how we have the exact same debate every time there is a mass killing that might lead to a minute's silence though.

[lucky]

I'm a socialist and hate the fact that the daily murders in Paelstine and around the world don't get coverage in our media but the murders in Paris are an attack on our way of life. Many of us will have visited Paris and will know the areas that these tragic events happened in. Unfortunately the attacks in Paris are too real for most compared to the bombing in Lebanon. But on Tuesday during the minutes silence we can remember victims across the globe. For those for don't want to participate then stay on the concourse. I remember during the AEK game at ER they burnt a US flag, Hibs fans responded with chants of USA USA. Football , politics and life go hand in hand

[Tom Hart RIP]

Media reporting that one of the terrorists had a ticket for the France Germany game and the plan was believed to have been setting off a bomb inside then another outside when people were evacuating so it could have easily been football related. But for the vigilance of a steward who discovered the suicide best then several hundred more would have died.

[Ronniekirk]

This Barbaric Attrocity has struck such a cord because ordinary people just going out for a normal relaxing night out ,whether it was attending a football match, having a meal with family and friends . Attending a rock concert .sitting in a romantic cafe minding thier own business , we're just mown down .
The scale of the incident and the fact Islamic State could strike so easily in the heart of a busy city killing innocent people is a game changer .Sadly use of language like this is now a war on Terrorism wil no doubt lead leaders at the G 20 Summit to retaliate with more bombings in Syria and Iraq and the vicious circle perpetuates . The complexity of the situation with President Putin propping up Asad and bombing in that region has added another dimension . Who could blame people for not wanting yo get out of thier and flee ,and leave themselves at the mercy of those exploiting Refugees
However Without getting involved in wider issues , I have no problem with a minutes silence before the game if that's what our Club decide to do .People can think of other recent atrocities ,but showing solidarity at this time is a small symbolic gesture .

[Scouse Hibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32169080 147 kids at a Kenyan university murdered, buried in the lower reaches of the BBC news site.

I fully expect the same sort of outrage and sympathy from the Government, that we have seen from the Paris attack. Not.

Minutes silence is a lot of political bullpoo when it comes to stuff like this, i care about the dead Africans as much as i care about the dead Parisians, but the beeb don't give a crap about them.

That happened in April, what took you so long?

[Scouse Hibee]

Why did you not care about the Malaysian flight that got gunned down? Not muslim enough for you to notice?

What a comment, how do you know he did not care?

[Pretty Boy]

That happened in April, what took you so long?

It only started getting plastered all over Facebook as some kind of point scoring excercise today?

[Scouse Hibee]

It only started getting plastered all over Facebook as some kind of point scoring excercise today?

Indeed, petty point scoring at that.

[Andy74]

Why are we arguing over having a minutes silence for the murderous actions that took place. Are we really a support that has stopped caring, do we really have people that follow Hibernian that really don't care ?

I genuinely believed that my club was an all encompassing,caring club with a conscience. Obviously not, there appears to be too many that have political/personal objectives that are totally the polar opposite to mine.

This post sums up why some feel we shouldn't do it.

[Scouse Hibee]

The thing is with a minutes silence or indeed an applause which there have been many. People have a choice to participate or not and can make their own choices at the time.

[scoopyboy]

Am I ignoring the obvious here?

If Hibs announce a minutes silence before the game against Livingston then we as fans observe it.

If Hibs don't announce a minutes silence then there is nothing to observe.

[Hibby Bairn]

What a comment, how do you know he did not care?

The point was about why we didn't have a minute's silence for that "tragedy". I think.

[Scouse Hibee]

The point was about why we didn't have a minute's silence for that "tragedy". I think.

Yes I know what he was getting at but "not Muslim enough" was hardly required to express his point.

[ozwoody]

Should we have a moments silence? Absolutely! i recognise people are saying where do we draw the line, but why should we draw a line? If we , as human beings , are not be able to take a moment of our time to think about people that went to a game, a restaurant, a bar, and not come home, what does that make us?
The world has changed , these atrocities are happening every week.
If we have to do a moments silence every bloody game we should . remember,there's a good chance we will leave a game and the only concern we have is the result, not having to bury our friends ,family or children

[Andy74]

Should we have a moments silence? Absolutely! i recognise people are saying where do we draw the line, but why should we draw a line? If we , as human beings , are not be able to take a moment of our time to think about people that went to a game, a restaurant, a bar, and not come home, what does that make us?
The world has changed , these atrocities are happening every week.
If we have to do a moments silence every bloody game we should . remember,there's a good chance we will leave a game and the only concern we have is the result, not having to bury our friends ,family or children

So we should also do it every time we go to a bar or a restaurant, or a concert, or get on a bus or a plane?

Yes things are happening regularly, yes we all care about it but that's totally different from having to mark it every time at a football match.

I spend about 2 hrs every couple of weeks at Easter Road. I spend about 8 hours a day at my desk with the same people. I'm not aware of us having to display an act of this sort every time something happens.

[Andy74]

Am I ignoring the obvious here?

If Hibs announce a minutes silence before the game against Livingston then we as fans observe it.

If Hibs don't announce a minutes silence then there is nothing to observe.

Yes of course but this isn't about whether we respect it or not. Everyone would Im sure. It's more about whether we should do this every time at football when we don't do it anywhere else.

It's also not about caring about it it having respect its about whether this has just become some process that we seem to be locked into doing and it has lost most of its relevance.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Its a serious question. Doubt he will answer.

It doesn't deserve an answer.

[blackpoolhibs]

So we should also do it every time we go to a bar or a restaurant, or a concert, or get on a bus or a plane?

Yes things are happening regularly, yes we all care about it but that's totally different from having to mark it every time at a football match.

I spend about 2 hrs every couple of weeks at Easter Road. I spend about 8 hours a day at my desk with the same people. I'm not aware of us having to display an act of this sort every time something happens.

Maybe its because its a large gathering of people, and it gives them a chance to all show their respect at the same time rather than individually where they'd probably be looked at as a bit daft? :confused:

I don't know the answer to this, but events like this do seem to deserve a proper showing of respect by the masses, this is just one way of doing it i suppose?

[Scott Allan Key]

Will personally respect the minutes silence if it happens. It is strange to see people standing in a supermarket on Remembrance Sunday and it seems strange, given the anticipation before a football game to choose stadia rather than a visit to one's own personal space/church/mosque/synagogue. If we are to hold minute's silence I would prefer it if it was related to those connected to Hibernian football club or our opponents.

[scoopyboy]

Yes of course but this isn't about whether we respect it or not. Everyone would Im sure. It's more about whether we should do this every time at football when we don't do it anywhere else.

It's also not about caring about it it having respect its about whether this has just become some process that we seem to be locked into doing and it has lost most of its relevance.

Good points.

Taking your previous post about in the workplace, at my work we observed a two minute silence on the 11th November at 11am across our entire site (Offices, labs, plant, stores, etc). Firebells starting and finishing the period. The only other time I can recall it happening was with Lady Diana. The same question could be applied with my work, when do we and when don't we.

Regarding Hibs, the question of when do we carry out a minutes silence (or applause) for an ex player? The famous ones are a no brainer but I'm pretty certain we don't do it for every previous player.

Whether it be atrocities or ex players a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, not an easy call.

[blackpoolhibs]

Good points.

Taking your previous post about in the workplace, at my work we observed a two minute silence on the 11th November at 11am across our entire site (Offices, labs, plant, stores, etc). Firebells starting and finishing the period. The only other time I can recall it happening was with Lady Diana. The same question could be applied with my work, when do we and when don't we.

Regarding Hibs, the question of when do we carry out a minutes silence (or applause) for an ex player? The famous ones are a no brainer but I'm pretty certain we don't do it for every previous player.

Whether it be atrocities or ex players a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, not an easy call.


One i wouldnt like to be in charge of. :agree:

[Tinribs]

That happened in April, what took you so long?

Took me so long to do what? I was only using it as an example of double standards, albeit a bad example due to the six months diminishing its importance.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Phew for a second there I thought this tragedy wasn't going to get a crass twitter meme for people to indulge in instead of actually doing something worthwhile.

And for a second there I thought someone wasn't going to be crass enough to jump on the opportunity to show all the idiots out there how 'oh so clever and inshullektyul' they are, because unlike all the proles they are far too sophisticated to resort to meaningless symbolism.

How do you know they aren't doing something worthwhile?

Things like this don't leave people much scope for practical action apart from putting their hand in their pocket if asked. It does no harm for people to be able to show a bit of solidarity.

Millions of people on facebook have changed their profile pictures to include the French flag ... Will that bring anybody back to life? no. Will it stop IS? no. It might just make some people in France feel a wee bit better about things to know folk are thinking about them though. I mean, folk send ill friends 'get well soon' cards ...... hardly a practical act either.

[Scouse Hibee]

Took me so long to do what? I was only using it as an example of double standards, albeit a bad example due to the six months diminishing its importance.

An example of double standards that never even entered your train of thought before until you saw a clamour of people using it on the internet no doubt!

[bingo70]

And for a second there I thought someone wasn't going to be crass enough to jump on the opportunity to show all the idiots out there how 'oh so clever and inshullektyul' they are, because unlike all the proles they are far too sophisticated to resort to meaningless symbolism.

How do you know they aren't doing something worthwhile?

Things like this don't leave people much scope for practical action apart from putting their hand in their pocket if asked. It does no harm for people to be able to show a bit of solidarity.

Millions of people on facebook have changed their profile pictures to include the French flag ... Will that bring anybody back to life? no. Will it stop IS? no. It might just make some people in France feel a wee bit better about things to know folk are thinking about them though. I mean, folk send ill friends 'get well soon' cards ...... hardly a practical act either.

Good post

I'm fed up getting asked why I didn't show the same sympathy to the Lebanon and Kenyan victims. I'm sorry but I just didn't and its poor that people like me are getting made to feel bad for daring to show sympathy to one of our closest neighbours who have had a terrible attack.

Imo the Lebanon and Kenyan attacks are getting used by people to show how much of a better person they are as they're clearly more compassionate than the likes of me, well done to them but I'll continue to be sincere with my sympathies and not go looking for one upmanship by trying to score petty points.

[Tinribs]

An example of double standards that never even entered your train of thought before until you saw a clamour of people using it on the internet no doubt!

You know nothing about me or my knowledge of current events mate. I have given you the benefit of the doubt over some of your more combative posts in the past, but personal insults like that show you up as the troll you are.

[blackpoolhibs]

You know nothing about me or my knowledge of current events mate. I have given you the benefit of the doubt over some of your more combative posts in the past, but personal insults like that show you up as the troll you are.

Ah the new hibs.net buzz word for someone with differing views. :rolleyes:

[Tinribs]

Ah the new hibs.net buzz word for someone with differing views. :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with differing views, he presumed to judge me on a personal level. He is a troll.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It now transpires that one of the suicide bombers had a ticket for the Stade de France and security stopped him getting into the stadium. The idea apparently being to detonate his bomb inside the ground and then for the other two to blow themselves up us the crowd evacuated the stadium.

With the French president at the game I would imagine security was tighter than usual. If he hadn't been perhaps the plan would have worked, killing F knows how many football fans.

Is that "fitba' related" enough for everybody.

[Canon Hannan]

Yes. Last night it was Paris. Where next? This affects us all.

Keep politics out of Sport.

This IS Political ad the real culprits are USA/UK/Isreal and the Invasion of the Middle East. Palestine? Happens every month.

I lived in France for 2 years and have great friends their still.

[greenlex]

It now transpires that one of the suicide bombers had a ticket for the Stade de France and security stopped him getting into the stadium. The idea apparently being to detonate his bomb inside the ground and then for the other two to blow themselves up us the crowd evacuated the stadium.

With the French president at the game I would imagine security was tighter than usual. If he hadn't been perhaps the plan would have worked, killing F knows how many football fans.

Is that "fitba' related" enough for everybody.
Id say a couple of minutes aplause for the security gaurd would be more apropriate or would we be remembering those poor terrorists who died there?

[Scottie]

It now transpires that one of the suicide bombers had a ticket for the Stade de France and security stopped him getting into the stadium. The idea apparently being to detonate his bomb inside the ground and then for the other two to blow themselves up us the crowd evacuated the stadium.

With the French president at the game I would imagine security was tighter than usual. If he hadn't been perhaps the plan would have worked, killing F knows how many football fans.

Is that "fitba' related" enough for everybody.
:agree: But even despite that I'm amazed so many fellow Hibees are of a completely different opinion.

[Scouse Hibee]

You know nothing about me or my knowledge of current events mate. I have given you the benefit of the doubt over some of your more combative posts in the past, but personal insults like that show you up as the troll you are.

Apologies if you took that as a personal insult as it wasn't my intention though reading back I can see as you took it as such. I can assure you am I not being a troll or attempting to troll you at all.

My point maybe made rather badly was that many people are jumping on a bandwagon of citing other atrocities that were in their mind ignored whilst the Paris incident is receiving Worldwide votes of sympathy and acts of compassion in support.The sheer nature and proximity of this latest attack close to our shores has resulted in mass media coverage on a scale not often seen and certainly not demonstrated in coverage of the atrocity in Kenya that you quoted. Many people are simply not aware of what goes on around the world unless the media pushes it in their face hence the lack of percieved concern for Kenya and alike.

Once again I apologise for implying that you are one of them as that was certainly a generalisation too far from me.

[basehibby]

I think minutes silences at football should be for football related things only.

This IS football related - the attack in Paris was launched with three suicide bomb attacks on football fans.

[greenlex]

This IS football related - the attack in Paris was launched with three suicide bomb attacks on football fans. That failed due to the dilligence of the security operation there. The remberence is not football related. Three terrorists blew themselves up at the Stadium killing only themselves. There but for the grace of god to coin a phrase that it was different.

[Tinribs]

Apologies if you took that as a personal insult as it wasn't my intention though reading back I can see as you took it as such. I can assure you am I not being a troll or attempting to troll you at all.

My point maybe made rather badly was that many people are jumping on a bandwagon of citing other atrocities that were in their mind ignored whilst the Paris incident is receiving Worldwide votes of sympathy and acts of compassion in support.The sheer nature and proximity of this latest attack close to our shores has resulted in mass media coverage on a scale not often seen and certainly not demonstrated in coverage of the atrocity in Kenya that you quoted. Many people are simply not aware of what goes on around the world unless the media pushes it in their face hence the lack of percieved concern for Kenya and alike.

Once again I apologise for implying that you are one of them as that was certainly a generalisation too far from me.
I apologise too, I was being too precious. I put it down to the ten or so gin and tonics I had last night, the old noggin is a bit nippy today.

[Scouse Hibee]

I apologise too, I was being too precious. I put it down to the ten or so gin and tonics I had last night, the old noggin is a bit nippy today.

All good mate.GGTTH

[basehibby]

That failed due to the dilligence of the security operation there. The remberence is not football related. Three terrorists blew themselves up at the Stadium killing only themselves. There but for the grace of god to coin a phrase that it was different.

Yes - that part of what was a coordinated attack failed. The fact remains that 129 others died in an attack which was started by three suicide blasts at a football match.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Took me so long to do what? I was only using it as an example of double standards, albeit a bad example due to the six months diminishing its importance.

The Kenyan university shootings got loads of press coverage when they happened. That's what makes dredging them up now make you look a bit silly - you've noticed all the Facebook posts etc saying "What about this???" and jumped on the bandwagon.

Given how close our geographic, social, historic and political ties are with France, it's not surprising or an affront to others that we should feel the impact of the Paris attacks more profoundly. If we attributed the same level of grief to everyone catastrophe in the world, we'd be overwhelmed, such is the tragic scale of human suffering. Solidarity with France in no way devalues the pain of those suffering elsewhere. The current trend on social media of trying to belittle others for a human reaction to a tragedy is horrible and perpetuated by the type of people who quantify their self worth in likes and retweets.

I see that loads of England fans are learning La Marseillaise prior to their friendly with France on Tuesday. If you want to engage with a social media campaign, ask yourself why you're attaching yourself to something as futile and divisive as whataboutery, rather than one so overwhelmingly positive such as that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Id say a couple of minutes aplause for the security gaurd would be more apropriate or would we be remembering those poor terrorists who died there?

I posted that because folk had been saying a minutes silence should only be for football related stuff.

Basically what you are saying is that because the football stadium part of the plan to massacre hundreds, if not thousands, of people failed we shouldn't be showing our respects at all to those who were killed in the parts of the plan that did succeed, coz hey at least they weren't football fans.

[liamh2202]

Keep politics out of Sport.

This IS Political ad the real culprits are USA/UK/Isreal and the Invasion of the Middle East. Palestine? Happens every month.

I lived in France for 2 years and have great friends their still.

Bollocks. The real culprits are isil no one else

[greenlex]

Yes - that part of what was a coordinated attack failed. The fact remains that 129 others died in an attack which was started by three suicide blasts at a football match.
My point being that it wasnt football related. It was indeed part of the whole attack but a failed attempt at that particular site. Just for the record I have shed tears several times since Friday night over this and have absolute compassion for everyone affected by this where ever they are. If we have a silence on Tuesday I will be there and participate. No doubt tears in my eyes once more.
The question that is being asked and debated is should this be done at football matches. I think unless its anything to do with football then we shouldnt. I go to football to watch the game cheer on my team and enjoy myself. Partly as a release to my day to day worries. I dont particularly want to be reminded of one of them before the game. If its to be its to be. Who decides when we hold one and when not? I dont fancy making that call. If it was footbal related and remembering part of the wider footballing family its there in Black and White when we do and when we dont. The fact that folk are indulging in a political whataboutery is testament to going down that route. Peace to all. Im done on this matter.

[greenlex]

I posted that because folk had been saying a minutes silence should only be for football related stuff.

Basically what you are saying is that because the football stadium part of the plan to massacre hundreds, if not thousands, of people failed we shouldn't be showing our respects at all to those who were killed in the parts of the plan that did succeed, coz hey at least they weren't football fans.
See above post.

[high bee]

Its a serious question. Doubt he will answer.

I respect your view that we should hold them for all or for none but you can't expect folk to be aware of every atrocity in the world and frankly if it touches people enough to want a minutes silence then that's fine by me.

Just because they haven't mentioned Lebanon or Turkey or planes downed in Egypt doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to show respect to Paris and it doesn't mean they don't care about the others and we should all respect that. If Lebanon has touched you so greatly then why don't you push for a remembrance for that rather than talk down to people on here, I will respect your remembrance and join you in it but I won't make you feel like you have no right to it should you have glazed over another tragedy.

Perhaps we should push for a minutes applause rather than silence for marks of respect at football matches? If someone doesn't want to join in the applause it won't make a difference but if someone doesn't want to join in a silence and chooses to speak then it ruins the mark of respect for those taking part and it also leads to people feeling forced into it.

[Scouse Hibee]

I respect your view that we should hold them for all or for none but you can't expect folk to be aware of every atrocity in the world and frankly if it touches people enough to want a minutes silence then that's fine by me.

Just because they haven't mentioned Lebanon or Turkey or planes downed in Egypt doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to show respect to Paris and it doesn't mean they don't care about the others and we should all respect that. If Lebanon has touched you so greatly then why don't you push for a remembrance for that rather than talk down to people on here, I will respect your remembrance and join you in it but I won't make you feel like you have no right to it should you have glazed over another tragedy.

Perhaps we should push for a minutes applause rather than silence for marks of respect at football matches? If someone doesn't want to join in the applause it won't make a difference but if someone doesn't want to join in a silence and chooses to speak then it ruins the mark of respect for those taking part and it also leads to people feeling forced into it.

I see why applauses are used but personally I hate them,applausing to show respect doesn't fit well with me at all. The minutes silence is an oppertunity for an individual to stand silent,others can do as they wish in my mind, it does not detract from my personal show of respect.

[BH Hibs]

I take it the people with the strongest opinions on this thread are all going on Tuesday night

[Scouse Hibee]

I take it the people with the strongest opinions on this thread are all going on Tuesday night

Does it matter? Tuesday night or any other time, the topic still stands about whether people think silences for such events are correct for football matches.

[BH Hibs]

Does it matter? Tuesday night or any other time, the topic still stands about whether people think silences for such events are correct for football matches.

No not really but its hard to insist on it or oppose it so strongly if u are not going to be there.

[Canon Hannan]

Bollocks. The real culprits are isil no one else

Really, is that what you think?
This is not really the time or place to have a huge debate on the World today as I have friends who are French and lived there but I need to mention a few points:
ISIS are armed with USA weapons
USA/UK and Isreal have single hand idly destroyed and ravaged the Middle East causing movement of people and turmoil for power and mineral gain.
Palestine - 1000 women, children and innocents were murdered by Isreal in a 19 day killing spree last year – did you have a minutes silence? We the UK support Isreal. In 2012 personally I helped send 3 vans full of aid, toys and medical equipment to Palestine. It was stopped at Dover by the UK IMMIGRATION AUTHORITES for supporting a terrorist regime???!!!
My good friend always says look at the money trail. Yes ISIS are evil but no it is not purely the issue here. The route of the problem comes from UK/USA/Israeli greed for land and power since 2001.
We need peace in the World, but by watching BBC or reading the papers influences your thoughts then we are finished.
It is very political. That is why a minute’s silence is difficult. The Establishment and British state want us to get angry and ask for revenge, but that is the last thing we should do. We want the evil politicians and their friends to withdraw fro all invasions and stop arming people with weapons for financial gain. I will follow the silence as I feel for the French people however.

Peace and Glory to the Hibeeeees.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

Yes. Especially as a football match was targeted by 3 suicide bombers and it was only security that stopped carnage on the terraces. It seems right and no need to go into 'what about...'. It's all tragic, but a football match was involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

Really, is that what you think?
This is not really the time or place to have a huge debate on the World today as I have friends who are French and lived there but I need to mention a few points:
ISIS are armed with USA weapons
USA/UK and Isreal have single hand idly destroyed and ravaged the Middle East causing movement of people and turmoil for power and mineral gain.
Palestine - 1000 women, children and innocents were murdered by Isreal in a 19 day killing spree last year – did you have a minutes silence? We the UK support Isreal. In 2012 personally I helped send 3 vans full of aid, toys and medical equipment to Palestine. It was stopped at Dover by the UK IMMIGRATION AUTHORITES for supporting a terrorist regime???!!!
My good friend always says look at the money trail. Yes ISIS are evil but no it is not purely the issue here. The route of the problem comes from UK/USA/Israeli greed for land and power since 2001.
We need peace in the World, but by watching BBC or reading the papers influences your thoughts then we are finished.
It is very political. That is why a minute’s silence is difficult. The Establishment and British state want us to get angry and ask for revenge, but that is the last thing we should do. We want the evil politicians and their friends to withdraw fro all invasions and stop arming people with weapons for financial gain. I will follow the silence as I feel for the French people however.

Peace and Glory to the Hibeeeees.


Cant argue with that. The half assed attempts by 'the west' to intervene in the middle east have caused the rise of ISIS. For whatever reason, greed, politics, or even ( however unlikely ) a misguided feeling that they were 'doing good' the west have created vacuums without any real thought about what the hell was going to fill them. The answer to that question was evident in Paris on Friday and has been in the middle east for the last few years.

Unfortunately we are now at a juncture where, no matter whose fault it is, Pandora's box has been opened and what has been released is evil incarnate. IS cannot be bargained with, they cannot be reasoned with and they do not have a conscience to appeal to. No amount of beating swords into ploughshares is going to make them go away.

There comes a time when only brute force is the answer and I don't think there has been a case for it since WW2 that was as clear as this one.

This group of fanatics hate everything ... they hate the world.

The west
Any form of history or culture
Shia muslims .... probably more than any other group in fact

When you have a group of people who see the end of the world as the end game and themselves as an instrument of god to achieve that goal then they are different from any threat the world has ever faced .... they would think nothing of using chemical or nuclear weapons if they become available and would give no consideration to the target .... if they could blow up Obama knowing they would kill 100,000 Sunni muslims in the process they would do it without a second thought.

The whole effort now must be their utter annihilation ..... we can argue about who's fault they were later.

[lyonhibs]

Why the hell do folk get so worked out about stuff like this. It's not as if it's going to spoil their enjoyment of the game. If it's something I totally disagree with (which is extremely unlikely) then I'll wait in the concourse till it's over.

Exactly. 1 minute of your time. That's 1\1440th of your day.

[21.05.2016]

Yes for me

[Islington Hibs]

Keep politics out of Sport.

This IS Political ad the real culprits are USA/UK/Isreal and the Invasion of the Middle East. Palestine? Happens every month.

I lived in France for 2 years and have great friends their still.


That is most offensive post I have ever seen on Hibs.net. You should be totally shamed of yourself. To blame USA/ Israel for the behaviour of these barbaric terrorist thugs who are a threat to our Western Civilisation is beyond belief. Shame on you.

[Sir David Gray]

I see why applauses are used but personally I hate them,applausing to show respect doesn't fit well with me at all. The minutes silence is an oppertunity for an individual to stand silent,others can do as they wish in my mind, it does not detract from my personal show of respect.

:agree: I absolutely despise minute's applauses.

[leggeto]

This IS football related - the attack in Paris was launched with three suicide bomb attacks on football fans.

Said on the news last night one of them had a ticket for the game aswell

[iwasthere1972]

If there's a minutes silence on Tuesday (and I think there should be one) then I will observe it.

Personally I don't understand all the politics and the tit for tat but we live in a world full of nutters. Always have and always will.

[Sir David Gray]

My view on this has changed since it came to light that one of the terrorists had a ticket for the France-Germany match and blew himself up once security had realised that he had a suicide belt strapped to his body.

Since a football match was a target on Friday night, I now believe that football should show its respects.

[Carheenlea]

It would take approximately 7 minutes to read the 7 pages to date debating the matter of a minutes silence. Will probably be 10 by Tuesday night. A lot of fuss over something that won't take as long as one of Mark Oxley's goal kicks.

[Canon Hannan]

That is most offensive post I have ever seen on Hibs.net. You should be totally shamed of yourself. To blame USA/ Israel for the behaviour of these barbaric terrorist thugs who are a threat to our Western Civilisation is beyond belief. Shame on you.

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?

[Sir David Gray]

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?



Not for no reason, no.

They are murdering people that they see as the infidel and are attempting to spread their version of Wahhabism and force it upon everyone else. Those who choose to go against them must be murdered.

How do you explain their attacks on the Yazidis, the Kurds and the Shias? I'm not quite sure how that can be blamed on the USA, UK or Israel but perhaps you could educate me.

[Canon Hannan]

Not for no reason, no.

They are murdering people that they see as the infidel and are attempting to spread their version of Wahhabism and force it upon everyone else. Those who choose to go against them must be murdered.

How do you explain their attacks on the Yazidis, the Kurds and the Shias? I'm not quite sure how that can be blamed on the USA, UK or Israel but perhaps you could educate me.

I AM NOT sticking up for them thank you. I will be at ER on Tuesday respecting my French friends.

[Sir David Gray]

I AM NOT sticking up for them thank you. I will be at ER on Tuesday respecting my French friends.

I never said you were sticking up for them but you made a point in an earlier post which I asked you to explain further.

Would you like to answer my question or not?

[Super_JMcGinn]

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?



What exactly is their reason for murdering ? No matter what the UK the US or any other country has done in the past, nothing can condone what these animals are doing in the name of their perverted version of Islam.

[leggeto]

Keep politics out of Sport.

This IS Political ad the real culprits are USA/UK/Isreal and the Invasion of the Middle East. Palestine? Happens every month.

I lived in France for 2 years and have great friends their still.

Some Scarry stuff happens around the world and the reasons some of us will never know,but that Isis mob are pure cowards,why couldn't they attack an embassy or something, but no, they attacked defenseless people with no way of fighting back,****bags of the highest order

[Canon Hannan]

I never said you were sticking up for them but you made a point in an earlier post which I asked you to explain further.

Would you like to answer my question or not?

No, not the place.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?



Somebody citing the Truthers while telling others to educate themselves :faf:

It's been a pretty depressing weekend, thanks for lightening the mood.

[Sir David Gray]

No, not the place.

Feel free to stick up a reply on the thread that's on the go in the Holy Ground then, I would be genuinely interested to hear your response to my question.

I look forward to seeing you there.

[Allant1981]

Had a minutes silence tonight at the glasgow rocks game, no big issue doing it, a minute out your life to pay some respect isnt going to kill you

[NAE NOOKIE]

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?



Nobody is blind to the whole picture CH. Big bad west, Israel, colonialism ... blah blah blah.

The truth is nobody cares any more mate. These people are not a reaction to these things, they were always there waiting for the opportunity to press their own agenda. They are not freedom fighters any more than they are a natural reaction to injustice perceived or real.

They slaughter people at a whim ... without mercy they shoot, behead, crucify and burn to death anyone who refuses to buy into their sick version of Islam, they sell women into sexual slavery and commit acts of genocide, not to mention acts of cultural vandalism unprecedented in human history.

So whatever the causes, whatever the reasons, whatever their justification of what they do ........ wipe the ***kers out !!!

[heretoday]

Never in a million years. Keep this away from football. Why does the OP not mention the bomb that killed 43 in Lebanon yesterday?

Hear hear.

[Scouse Hibee]

Having just watched SSN I see a minutes silence was observed impeccably at various sporting venues today. As for keeping this away from football sadly the bombers saw fit to include a packed football stadium as one of their targets.

[Andy74]

It would take approximately 7 minutes to read the 7 pages to date debating the matter of a minutes silence. Will probably be 10 by Tuesday night. A lot of fuss over something that won't take as long as one of Mark Oxley's goal kicks.

Is the measure of whether something should be done or not how much time it will take?

That seems to be the response from a number of people so far but it is not really the issue is it?

There are lots of things that can be done in a minute, not all of them good.

[(((Fergus)))]

Try not to get too offended. The truth movement in America will explain the whole World problem. Read up on it. Maybe try and educate yourself. They are evil terrorists and I have French friends but you must look at the whole picture not just one event. Do you actually think that these guys are just murdering for no reason? Ask questions. There are millions like me who understand why and who stirred up the hornets nest. Hope that is not too offensive for you?



They are murdering (and raping and enslaving) "infidels" because according to their understanding of their badly plagiarised "religion", these are "holy" things to do. That is the reason they are massacring and abusing Yezidis now and that is the reason they were sailing as far as Iceland centuries ago to steal human beings for their pleasure and utility. This has nothing to do with Yezidi foreign policy or Icelandic imperialist meddling, it is because according to them it is mandated by their cult. The fact that these crimes might be fun to a sick mind or convenient to a pervert is undoubtedly part of their appeal and perhaps the reason they were included in the koran etc. in the first place.