Examples of how we're "Better Together" thread - all welcome

[Jones28]

Don't disagree to be honest and I'm still convinced the majority of Scots would settle quite happily for Devo Max or some sort of federalisation of the UK...Even after that though we would still someway from being world leaders in the areas mentioned no matter how nimble our government was (is there such a thing as nimble government?!)

It's also worth wondering just what governments bring in terms of attracting and developing the types of business you mention. Clearly lower tax rates have an impact (as Ireland has shown) but you can easily flip that to say the governments are therefore stifling growth through excessive taxation and make the argument for less tax, less government and therefore more growth! ;-)

If the ballot paper had read independance, devo-max or no change I would have gone for devo-max. I think the idea of full independance spooked a lot of people, particularly when you consider how much info was going about - negative and positive.

However I'd rather have taken a leap of faith over the status quo.

[Andrewwhitmey]

Thanks for your new tips

[Hannah_hfc]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

I'm sure nationalists will stick their heads in the sand over this article but I can well believe this would be the case had the vote gone the other way!

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

I'm sure nationalists will stick their heads in the sand over this article but I can well believe this would be the case had the vote gone the other way!


That's a bit like quoting an article from Craig Levein on the subject of Hibs and claiming anyone who disagrees is stupid.

The falling oil price is a major headache in the case for independence, although to my mind not as big a problem as the acceptance of UK subsidy. Without any oil revenue at all, Scotland's GDP per capita is roughly the same as rUK. It is only because of Barnett that we can sustain higher per-capita spending.

Anyway there's little point in looking for analysis from someone who talks such obvious bollocks as:



America has mastered fracking and doesn’t need to import much oil now; this has helped depress the price of a barrel from $110 to $30.


The frackers can't make money at $30/barrel either and are struggling big time:

http://ecowatch.com/2016/01/18/fracking-industry-bankrupt/

The oil price started falling due to OPEC turning the taps on in order to stick it to the frackers. It has continued to fall based on worries over softening demand, especially from China.

In reality, Fraser Nelson is a diehard Unionist who would balk at the idea of an independent Scotland even if we could go back to early 80s levels of oil production.

[RyeSloan]

That's a bit like quoting an article from Craig Levein on the subject of Hibs and claiming anyone who disagrees is stupid. The falling oil price is a major headache in the case for independence, although to my mind not as big a problem as the acceptance of UK subsidy. Without any oil revenue at all, Scotland's GDP per capita is roughly the same as rUK. It is only because of Barnett that we can sustain higher per-capita spending. Anyway there's little point in looking for analysis from someone who talks such obvious bollocks as: The frackers can't make money at $30/barrel either and are struggling big time: http://ecowatch.com/2016/01/18/fracking-industry-bankrupt/ The oil price started falling due to OPEC turning the taps on in order to stick it to the frackers. It has continued to fall based on worries over softening demand, especially from China. In reality, Fraser Nelson is a diehard Unionist who would balk at the idea of an independent Scotland even if we could go back to early 80s levels of oil production.

Chinese oil demand has never been higher, U.S. net import requirements have not been lower since the mid 80's so the comment was not completely wrong (although 'not much' is pushing it a bit!)

Oil is cyclical, that's the nature of the beast. I'm sure at some point we will see the price go back up again but what can't be denied is that the SNP based Scotland's independent finances on $100+ oil...that can't be airbrushed or ignored and it would be interesting to see a level and unbiased assessment of what that would have meant to their proposed budgets and what $30 oil would have meant if Indy was going ahead next month.

That said when looking at the current negotiations over Smith I doubt full Indy would have been happening next month anyway...yet another gross over estimation by Salmond.

[JeMeSouviens]

Chinese oil demand has never been higher, U.S. net import requirements have not been lower since the mid 80's so the comment was not completely wrong (although 'not much' is pushing it a bit!)


I didn't say on current demand, I said on worries over softening, eg.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/20-Oil-Is-Now-A-Distinct-Possibility-As-Chinese-Demand-Wanes.html



Oil is cyclical, that's the nature of the beast. I'm sure at some point we will see the price go back up again but what can't be denied is that the SNP based Scotland's independent finances on $100+ oil...that can't be airbrushed or ignored and it would be interesting to see a level and unbiased assessment of what that would have meant to their proposed budgets and what $30 oil would have meant if Indy was going ahead next month.

That said when looking at the current negotiations over Smith I doubt full Indy would have been happening next month anyway...yet another gross over estimation by Salmond.

It would be brilliant to see level and unbiased assessments of anything but I'm not holding my breath!

One point that's generally ignored by Unionists is that it might not all look so scary if the economy ever makes a sustained rebound. I've read people saying there was never a better time for Yes because the UK was in such a mess. I don't actually agree with that, I think we will be more receptive to taking control of our country from a stronger starting position when it won't be so easy to crank up the fear of black holes, etc.

[ronaldo7]

The broken promises continue...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/ …

[marinello59]

The broken promises continue...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/ …

There are a couple of broken promises in there and they should be highlighted. Most of it is just opinion from a pro-independence group though. Poor stuff.

[johnbc70]

The broken promises continue...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/ …

Just like the SNPs broken promises on class sizes.

[xyz23jc]

There are a couple of broken promises in there and they should be highlighted. Most of it is just opinion from a pro-independence group though. Poor stuff.


P&J Pro Independence? nah! Pro ABERDEEN? Aye! Insular Aye! Hilarious. Si Senor!!! Lol!

[marinello59]

P&J Pro Independence? nah! Pro ABERDEEN? Aye! Insular Aye! Hilarious. Si Senor!!! Lol!

The broken promises listed are from a pro-independence grouping. Read the article properly. Then have a good chuckle at yourself. :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

The broken promises listed are from a pro-independence grouping. Read the article properly. Then have a good chuckle at yourself. :greengrin

Ok Marinello! Might do that! Doubtful, but aye, possible! Ok, never actually read the said article but the words P&J got ma goat!!! Bad memories!:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

The broken promises listed are from a pro-independence grouping. Read the article properly. Then have a good chuckle at yourself. :greengrin

Two broken promises not enough for you? :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

Two broken promises not enough for you? :greengrin


Must be frae Inverurie or Cults! :greengrin

[marinello59]

Two broken promises not enough for you? :greengrin

It's two too many.

[xyz23jc]

It's two too many.

Unlike the present incumbents! :greengrin

Noo....Inverurie or Cults...? :greengrin

[marinello59]

Ok Marinello! Might do that! Doubtful, but aye, possible! Ok, never actually read the said article but the words P&J got ma goat!!! Bad memories!:greengrin

I haven't bought it for years. The Evening is even worse, a Sheep fanzine.

[marinello59]

Unlike the present incumbents! :greengrin

Noo....Inverurie or Cults...? :greengrin

Neither. :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

I haven't bought it for years. The Evening is even worse, a Sheep fanzine.

Always preferred the Evening, like the EEN. Less jambocentic obviously, but easier crossword, local, informative, unless you lived in Torry! :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

Neither. :greengrin


Excellent! Torry would be a plus!:greengrin:thumbsup:

[RyeSloan]

The broken promises continue... https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/ …

What an odd article.

Especially liked this part: Right-wing, separatist, British nationalist and often racist, anti-European sentiment will now decide Scotland’s membership of the EU

[stoneyburn hibs]

Just like the SNPs broken promises on class sizes.

Given the "Promise" and what has failed to be delivered, class sizes as a response doesn't really cut it.

[johnbc70]

Given the "Promise" and what has failed to be delivered, class sizes as a response doesn't really cut it.

Does if you kid is in a class size that was not what was promised and we get told he cannot get the support he needs because of lack of budget, cuts it big time for me and many other parents.

[One Day Soon]

Does if you kid is in a class size that was not what was promised and we get told he cannot get the support he needs because of lack of budget, cuts it big time for me and many other parents.

Oh dear, reality pokes its unwelcome head through the window...and you're far from the only one.

Lot of unhappy campers in our sector wondering why this radical SNP government won't use the tax powers it negotiated for to deliver extra income to defend the public services it claims to value so much.

[ronaldo7]

Liverpool seemed to like being Better together.

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1400346-defence-secretary-visits-clyde-amid-frigate-controversy/

[snooky]

The broken promises continue...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/870775/17-broken-promises-better-together-campaign-revealed-independence-day/ …

I am not in the least bit dumbfounded by the broken promises report however, I am totally staggered that the "Press & Journal" (of all papers) has published this.

[snooky]

Better together? :dunno:

20281

[xyz23jc]

Oh dear, reality pokes its unwelcome head through the window...and you're far from the only one.

Lot of unhappy campers in our sector wondering why this radical SNP government won't use the tax powers it negotiated for to deliver extra income to defend the public services it claims to value so much.

Under the BettertogetherersvowersbiggerbetterstrongerScotlan d there is no window amigo....We're all f****** sleeping in the street! Brexitstylee#

[Hibrandenburg]

Some of us are much better together.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-take-13-minutes-to-decide-to-double-the-royal-familys-income-a7607986.html