Russian plane crash

[Hibee87]

I thought there would have been a thread on this, but it looks like tge Russian plane that crashed may have been blown up or hit with some sort of missile.

Im not really into politics etc but I have a feeling if this is true, and turns out to be isis/al queida etc the russians wont hold back on full blown war with these people. We have seen from the recent syria bombings the russians don't hold back, and this might incite them to up their operations. Not sure how that would stand with other world superpowers but it doesn't look like this group of people are going to be stopped any other way, makes for a grim thought on what might happen in the next few years

[lord bunberry]

I thought there would have been a thread on this, but it looks like tge Russian plane that crashed may have been blown up or hit with some sort of missile.

Im not really into politics etc but I have a feeling if this is true, and turns out to be isis/al queida etc the russians wont hold back on full blown war with these people. We have seen from the recent syria bombings the russians don't hold back, and this might incite them to up their operations. Not sure how that would stand with other world superpowers but it doesn't look like this group of people are going to be stopped any other way, makes for a grim thought on what might happen in the next few years
ISIS have claimed responsibility for it apparently, but nothing has been confirmed yet.

[DH1875]

ISIS have claimed responsibility for it apparently, but nothing has been confirmed yet.

Dont think that ISIS have the capability to shoot down a plane from that hight. If it was them, must have been a bomb or something. That said, no idea why they'd think blowing up a Russian plane is a good idea. If it turns out they have done it, Russia will go all in will they not? Saw the picture of the wee girl getting on the plane with her dad just before take off. Very sad indeed.

[lord bunberry]

Dont think that ISIS have the capability to shoot down a plane from that hight. If it was them, must have been a bomb or something. That said, no idea why they'd think blowing up a Russian plane is a good idea. If it turns out they have done it, Russia will go all in will they not? Saw the picture of the wee girl getting on the plane with her dad just before take off. Very sad indeed.
I got the impression that they were claiming responsibility as a publicity stunt.

[Hibrandenburg]

Absolutely devastating for all those families whose loved ones won't come home. On the political side though the Russians shouldn't be getting on their high horse about shooting down passenger aircraft.

[easty]

Absolutely devastating for all those families whose loved ones won't come home. On the political side though the Russians shouldn't be getting on their high horse about shooting down passenger aircraft.

And why not exactly?

[johnbc70]

And why not exactly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

No hard facts though, the Russians blaming the Ukrainians and the Ukrainians blaming the Russians.

[mikewynne]

And why not exactly?
The recent Malaysian aircraft is still an unknown but the Russians have a history of shooting down passenger aircraft...2 Korean passenger planes from the late '70's/early '80s. Not that those horrific incidents have any relationship with this tragedy.

[Future17]

Dont think that ISIS have the capability to shoot down a plane from that hight. If it was them, must have been a bomb or something. That said, no idea why they'd think blowing up a Russian plane is a good idea. If it turns out they have done it, Russia will go all in will they not? Saw the picture of the wee girl getting on the plane with her dad just before take off. Very sad indeed.

I haven't read much about this specific incident, but there's a good chance that IS or an affiliated group will have the same weaponry that took down the flight over Ukraine recently. They have access to weapons which previously belonged to 7 or 8 different regimes and was predominantly made in the USA and Russia.

I don't think you can read too much into what has been said so far as all parties have their own reasons for peddling certain lines. We'll need to wait and see what evidence can be gathered and what the investigation shows.

Aside from the obvious horror for the victims and their families, this incident is terrible news for an Egyptian/North African tourist industry that has already seen a massive decline in trade recently.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The tune changed very quickly. On Saturday as the news broke the reports were stating that the pilot had reported technical difficulties and was planning an emergency landing at a nearby airport. Yesterday the Russians stated it had to have been a bomb or missile that caused the plane to crash. A lot more to come out in the wash.

Sympathies with all the families who lost loved ones in this tragic incident.

[lyonhibs]

The tune changed very quickly. On Saturday as the news broke the reports were stating that the pilot had reported technical difficulties and was planning an emergency landing at a nearby airport. Yesterday the Russians stated it had to have been a bomb or missile that caused the plane to crash. A lot more to come out in the wash.

Sympathies with all the families who lost loved ones in this tragic incident.

As soon as I saw the BBC News ticker and realised the location of the plane when it went down I said to my mate that it's fairly clearly been shot down out of the sky and the way things seem to be developing I'm sticking by that.

Absolute tragedy as you say.

[Future17]

As soon as I saw the BBC News ticker and realised the location of the plane when it went down I said to my mate that it's fairly clearly been shot down out of the sky and the way things seem to be developing I'm sticking by that.

Absolute tragedy as you say.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

It was flying from Sharm-el-Sheikh was it not? Given that this is very close to where the plane went down, is it not a logical place for it to crash if it developed a problem after take off?

[bigwheel]

As soon as I saw the BBC News ticker and realised the location of the plane when it went down I said to my mate that it's fairly clearly been shot down out of the sky and the way things seem to be developing I'm sticking by that.

Absolute tragedy as you say.

As it was flying at 31000 feet it is highly unlikely it was shot down...not many have that capability...some sort of explosion or break up much more likely.


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[Hibrandenburg]

As it was flying at 31000 feet it is highly unlikely it was shot down...not many have that capability...some sort of explosion or break up much more likely.


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Not that unlikely knowing the standard of the Russian aviation industry.

[Hibee87]

I just heard on news flights feom sharm el to Britain arw suspended or delayed pending further checks. Surely this measure wouldn't bedone unless certain a bomb or susuch like was used in the russian flight

[Future17]

I just heard on news flights feom sharm el to Britain arw suspended or delayed pending further checks. Surely this measure wouldn't bedone unless certain a bomb or susuch like was used in the russian flight

The USA said yesterday that one of its spy satellites recorded the incident. It said the footage was consistent with a bomb detonation or fuel tank explosion, but not a missile of any kind.

[hibsbollah]

I haven't read much about this specific incident, but there's a good chance that IS or an affiliated group will have the same weaponry that took down the flight over Ukraine recently. They have access to weapons which previously belonged to 7 or 8 different regimes and was predominantly made in the USA and Russia.

I don't think you can read too much into what has been said so far as all parties have their own reasons for peddling certain lines. We'll need to wait and see what evidence can be gathered and what the investigation shows.

Aside from the obvious horror for the victims and their families, this incident is terrible news for an Egyptian/North African tourist industry that has already seen a massive decline in trade recently.

:agree: It would be very complacent to think Isis don't have surface to air weaponry. The Dutch investigators found that the plane shot down in Ukraine was brought down by a Buk missile launcher, which is Russian made but used by the Russian army, the pro Russian rebels, the anti-Russian loyalists,the PKK and the Belarusian army. Its basically everywhere . Plus all the weaponry left over from the various Balkan conflicts and of course Syria and Iraq tragedies and the whole region is swimming in a sea of high tech weapons. (Leaving aside the UKs own dubious record of selling arms to dodgy regimes over thete).

[Hibee87]

Just seen that Lufthansa and other major airliners have ceased all flights to and from sharm el-shiekh.....this looks like its going to ignite something i feel

[Future17]

Sources now saying a bomb was placed in the hold shortly before take off. Absolutely horrific if true.

If proven to be correct, there will be some fallout with regards to who the guilty party is and what their motivations are.

[Hibee87]

Sources now saying a bomb was placed in the hold shortly before take off. Absolutely horrific if true.

If proven to be correct, there will be some fallout with regards to who the guilty party is and what their motivations are.


Easyjet rescue flights for Britons stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh suspended by Egyptian authorities, airline says

[--------]

The recent Malaysian aircraft is still an unknown but the Russians have a history of shooting down passenger aircraft...2 Korean passenger planes from the late '70's/early '80s. Not that those horrific incidents have any relationship with this tragedy.


Two? KAL 007 was shot down in 1983 as it was leaving Soviet airspace over the island of Sakhalin, having also overflown the Kamschatka Peninsula. 269 passengers and crew were killed.

It would appear that the Korean 747 had been confused with a USAF EC-135 (a variant of the 707 airliner) that was engaged in an ELINT operation off the Kamchatka coast that night. The Americans and South Koreans habitually intruded into Soviet Far East airspace from the time of the Korean War, if not before; RAF and USAF high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft also habitually intruded into the airspace over European Russia during the early years of the Cold War and a number were either shot down or forced to land and their aircrews arrested.

The Soviets forced down an earlier KAL flight which had intruded into Soviet airspace over Kamchatka - this happened a few years earlier than KAL 007 incident, but after detaining the passengers and crew for about 48 hours the aircraft was allowed to go on to Seoul. A number of other KAL flights have been forced to land by the Soviet air defences; KAL flights have often intruded into Soviet airspace with the Koreans claiming navigational or piloting errors, though it's probable that some at least of these intrusions have been made with the definite purpose of triggering Soviet/Russian air defence radars as part of SK or US ELINT operations. The situation isn't helped by the fact that many KAL aircrew are former SK Air Force combat pilots still on reserve for active service.

Continuing SK/US ELINT flights over Far Eastern Siberia have been a bit like continually poking a lion in the ear with a sharp stick - sooner or later the lion gets tired of the harassment and lashes out. KAL 007 seems to have been the final poke in the lion's ear ...

Korean Air Flight 585 (a Boeing 707) was brought down by a bomb planted by North Korean agents in November 1987. 115 passengers and crew were killed. This was pure state terrorism - the Boeing was nowhere near NK airspace at the time of the explosion.

What other KAL flight were you thinking of?

Bear in mind that the US has a similar 'history' of shooting down airliners - the USS Vincennes (CG-49) shot down Iran Air Flight 655 over the Persian Gulf, later claiming that the ship's radar had failed to distinguish the civilian Airbus A300 from an Iranian military F-14 fighter. 290 passengers and crew were killed; the captain of the Vincennes was awarded the Legion of Merit decoration for "exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer ... from April 1987 to May 1989" - no mention of the shootdown of the airliner, but I suspect that Iran got the point the US was making.

[alnewhaven]

KAL 902 a Boeing 707 was fired upon and made a forced landing in 1978, with 2 fatalities. Not sure if this was one of the forced landings you refer to

[Hibrandenburg]

And why not exactly?

Google it.

[DH1875]

Seems that the Russians have now confirmed that it was a bomb. Interesting to see their response over the next couple of weeks.

[Hibee87]

Seems that the Russians have now confirmed that it was a bomb. Interesting to see their response over the next couple of weeks.

Reports going round on facebook they are sending in 150,000 troops to eradicate ISIS, at work so not clicked but dont think they are from 'reputable' websites. However I did always think that if/weh nthis was confirmed that Russia would go in all guns blazing, and I think france will now be fully backing and possibly even supporting them.......Things are going to get very very messy i think

[Moulin Yarns]

Reports going round on facebook they are sending in 150,000 troops to eradicate ISIS, at work so not clicked but dont think they are from 'reputable' websites. However I did always think that if/weh nthis was confirmed that Russia would go in all guns blazing, and I think france will now be fully backing and possibly even supporting them.......Things are going to get very very messy i think

Russian Cruise Missile attack launched from the Med against IS positions


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-launches-cruise-missiles-at-isis-stronghold-of-raqqa-in-syria-a6737631.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-launches-cruise-missiles-at-isis-stronghold-of-raqqa-in-syria-a6737631.html)