Scotland gripes

[sambajustice]

More about the players attitudes rather than results/performances. Even though it looks poor we were 10 seconds and one poor match away from being right up there so I think there's definitely progress been made.

However, I had to laugh at Scott Brown threatening international retirement! He plays for by far the best time in pish league, probably doesn't need to over exert himself too much. Plus there's stacks of midfielders operating at a much higher level than him every week in the EPL. A leader he probably is but how big a miss would he be really? Still though, he went to Portugal last night and played a good chunk of the game. Maybe the international retirement thing was journalist spin!


2nd gripe, folk pulling out for last night's game, Griffiths and Rhodes - ideal chance for them to get game time and I would seriously doubt they were injured a la Mulgrew. If there was absolutely no reason not to travel then I'd be putting the guys who pulled out, into the international wilderness for a few games!

[easty]

You could be forgiven for thinking Scott Brown played for Hearts, rather than Hibs, before he went to Celtc sometimes. Dunno why he gets so much **** on here.

He's in the Scotland team on merit, he's the best we have in that position.

[Brightside]

You could be forgiven for thinking Scott Brown played for Hearts, rather than Hibs, before he went to Celtc sometimes. Dunno why he gets so much **** on here.

He's in the Scotland team on merit, he's the best we have in that position.

I really hope he retires. I couldnt care less who he used to play for he's been poor for a while and its time for a change.

[Spike Mandela]

Georgia defeat has cost us a play off place and highlights to me that we are not as strong in centre defensive positions as we historically used to be. A Miller/ McLeish defensive partnership and I'm certain we would have qualified.

[Hibbyradge]

I'd be putting the guys who pulled out, into the international wilderness for a few games!

Which is exactly where Griffiths is already!

[Big_Franck]

Georgia defeat has cost us a play off place and highlights to me that we are not as strong in centre defensive positions as we historically used to be. A Miller/ McLeish defensive partnership and I'm certain we would have qualified.

Agreed. Think i heard that we conceded 12 goals in qualifying. Thats too many to qualify unless we had a Lewandowski up front.

The problem is, and has been for years, there's no sign of us having a top class centre half anytime soon, never mimd a pair of them.

[steve75]

Agreed. Think i heard that we conceded 12 goals in qualifying. Thats too many to qualify unless we had a Lewandowski up front.

The problem is, and has been for years, there's no sign of us having a top class centre half anytime soon, never mimd a pair of them.

Our lack of quality in defense is clearly the issue. As it stands we're the sixth highest scoring team in qualifying. but 33rd for goals against.

Those stats show me that we're slightly unlucky not to at least have a place off place.

However, as they say, there are 'lies, damned lies, and statistics.'

[JimBHibees]

Which is exactly where Griffiths is already!

Not really going to be helped by him not playing yesterday assuming he will be fighting fit to play for Celtic at the weekend.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm sure I read yesterday Strachan confirmed LG was actually injured, he had a wee dig at him in the process.

He was apparently injured whilst shooting at HT in the Poland match and Strachan said along the lines of it was 'another episode with Leigh' or something like that.

[Steve20]

2nd gripe, folk pulling out for last night's game, Griffiths and Rhodes - ideal chance for them to get game time and I would seriously doubt they were injured a la Mulgrew. If there was absolutely no reason not to travel then I'd be putting the guys who pulled out, into the international wilderness for a few games!

You'd reward them for pulling out the squad??

Nah, Strachan has shown he doesn't rate them good enough when it mattered, so there was nothing to achieve playing them against a side that would struggle in League One in Scotland. What good would it do them?

[JimBHibees]

You'd reward them for pulling out the squad??

Nah, Strachan has shown he doesn't rate them good enough when it mattered, so there was nothing to achieve playing them against a side that would struggle in League One in Scotland. What good would it do them?

Score a few goals, play well?

[HappyHanlon]

You could be forgiven for thinking Scott Brown played for Hearts, rather than Hibs, before he went to Celtc sometimes. Dunno why he gets so much **** on here.

He's in the Scotland team on merit, he's the best we have in that position.

Cause he's been playing gash

[NAE NOOKIE]

I don't particularly have many gripes about Scotland's campaign. Apart from a bad first half in Dublin and a poor effort in Tbilisi we played pretty well in our matches.

We don't have any superstars that's for sure, but even so we did show a good team spirit and stood up well in our games. In any group you hope for a bit of help from the favourites, especially when they are favourites to win the whole competition. We all saw Ireland play us and they didn't look anything special, but they took 4 points out of 6 from the Germans. Its not up to Germany to do us any favours of course, but FFS !!!

The whole thing looks a lot worse with England, N Ireland, Wales and I suppose the Republic all qualifying .... but being handed a group with the world champions, one of the top 5 countries in Europe and what was in effect a derby match didn't do us any favours .... as it is, in all 6 of these games we lost once. Its just a shame that a decent effort like that is being forgotten because of one bad result and performance.

On a different, but related, note:

For years now loads of other countries, especially the African nations, have made noises about one country ( the UK ) being allowed to enter 4 teams into the world cup. That was due to a deal done after WW2 that in return for financial help from the UK associations FIFA would respect the separate identities of the 4 home nations. Arguably the first bribe in FIFA history : - )

If all 4 UK nations had made it to France I would be willing to bet that some of the nations who didn't make it would have began to take the same attitude to that competition and the world cup would be dragged into the argument, to the delight of the Africans.

Whatever Blatter's shortcomings there is no doubt that he did make strenuous efforts to expand the WC finals outside of Europe and South America and as a result he was and is viewed as a friend by the African and Asian nations. Anybody who wants to replace Blatter now will have to get that huge power block on board and will need their votes to get elected ..... What better way than to rip up a 70 year old agreement, made before half of the participants in the world cup were even independent countries, and promise an extra qualification place to Africa and / or Asia. What better way would there have been to justify such a move than to point to the fact that one country was able to have 4 teams in the Euro championship finals ..... from an outside point of view that could justifiably be viewed as patently unfair. Even now with 3 countries making it eyebrows could be raised.

The other countries would also have a case in pointing to Wales and asking why it is that a country whose full time professional clubs play in the English league can enter national competitions at all. I know Wales has a football league under the Welsh FA, but I doubt that would impress the other countries, who could probably quite easily argue that in all but the minds of the Welsh, Wales has been a de facto part of England for going on 1,500 years. That's not my personal view by the way before any Welsh folk on here start trying to find out where I live :greengrin

For that matter you can chuck in the fact that Britain competes as one country in the Olympic games and Athletics world championships and entered a football team in the last Olympics and wants to do so again in Rio. Its only us that thinks the Olympic football isn't a big deal, so that also draws attention to the one UK team situation.

Anyway ..... The fact that 3 of the 4 home nations have made it to the Euro finals could in the end turn out to be anything but a cause for celebration, watch this space as they say.

[Thecat23]

More about the players attitudes rather than results/performances. Even though it looks poor we were 10 seconds and one poor match away from being right up there so I think there's definitely progress been made.

However, I had to laugh at Scott Brown threatening international retirement! He plays for by far the best time in pish league, probably doesn't need to over exert himself too much. Plus there's stacks of midfielders operating at a much higher level than him every week in the EPL. A leader he probably is but how big a miss would he be really? Still though, he went to Portugal last night and played a good chunk of the game. Maybe the international retirement thing was journalist spin!


2nd gripe, folk pulling out for last night's game, Griffiths and Rhodes - ideal chance for them to get game time and I would seriously doubt they were injured a la Mulgrew. If there was absolutely no reason not to travel then I'd be putting the guys who pulled out, into the international wilderness for a few games!

Griffths and Rhodes rightly pulled out. Strachan has snubbed them far to many times and stayed loyal to guys like Brown, Hutton, Naismith. Sorry but I'd have told him to bolt!

[Smartie]

I don't particularly have many gripes about Scotland's campaign. Apart from a bad first half in Dublin and a poor effort in Tbilisi we played pretty well in our matches.

We don't have any superstars that's for sure, but even so we did show a good team spirit and stood up well in our games. In any group you hope for a bit of help from the favourites, especially when they are favourites to win the whole competition. We all saw Ireland play us and they didn't look anything special, but they took 4 points out of 6 from the Germans. Its not up to Germany to do us any favours of course, but FFS !!!

The whole thing looks a lot worse with England, N Ireland, Wales and I suppose the Republic all qualifying .... but being handed a group with the world champions, one of the top 5 countries in Europe and what was in effect a derby match didn't do us any favours .... as it is, in all 6 of these games we lost once. Its just a shame that a decent effort like that is being forgotten because of one bad result and performance.

On a different, but related, note:

For years now loads of other countries, especially the African nations, have made noises about one country ( the UK ) being allowed to enter 4 teams into the world cup. That was due to a deal done after WW2 that in return for financial help from the UK associations FIFA would respect the separate identities of the 4 home nations. Arguably the first bribe in FIFA history : - )

If all 4 UK nations had made it to France I would be willing to bet that some of the nations who didn't make it would have began to take the same attitude to that competition and the world cup would be dragged into the argument, to the delight of the Africans.

Whatever Blatter's shortcomings there is no doubt that he did make strenuous efforts to expand the WC finals outside of Europe and South America and as a result he was and is viewed as a friend by the African and Asian nations. Anybody who wants to replace Blatter now will have to get that huge power block on board and will need their votes to get elected ..... What better way than to rip up a 70 year old agreement, made before half of the participants in the world cup were even independent countries, and promise an extra qualification place to Africa and / or Asia. What better way would there have been to justify such a move than to point to the fact that one country was able to have 4 teams in the Euro championship finals ..... from an outside point of view that could justifiably be viewed as patently unfair. Even now with 3 countries making it eyebrows could be raised.

The other countries would also have a case in pointing to Wales and asking why it is that a country whose full time professional clubs play in the English league can enter national competitions at all. I know Wales has a football league under the Welsh FA, but I doubt that would impress the other countries, who could probably quite easily argue that in all but the minds of the Welsh, Wales has been a de facto part of England for going on 1,500 years. That's not my personal view by the way before any Welsh folk on here start trying to find out where I live :greengrin

Anyway ..... The fact that 3 of the 4 home nations have made it to the Euro finals could in the end turn out to be anything but a cause for celebration, watch this space as they say.

I agree with what you say about the campaign.

I don't see why we always have to have "gripes" and that we have to be seen to be making changes. It was a generally decent, if ultimately fruitless campaign.

We had one bad performance and result - the one in Georgia, everything else was passable.

We probably (like Hibs) need to work on our "plan B" for breaking down defensive-minded sides who score first against us.

We really need to stop shipping silly goals but the defence (and the defensive cover from midfield) is the weakest part of our team now. It would be great if we were to discover some quality centre-backs but realistically it is unlikely to happen. Although I'd say to Hanlon and Forster that there are places up for grabs in their position right now if they keep working hard…

Some of the goals we scored were magnificent. 3 against the world champions, some peaches against Poland, some good goals against Gibraltar too. But we need to work a lot harder on keeping the back door shut.

Results in other fixtures didn't go our way at all.

I want us to keep the manager, keep >95% of the squad in place, work a bit tactically on breaking to clever defensive teams and work on our defending, especially set pieces.

None of the baby/ bathwater solutions that are being suggested elsewhere.

Oh, and take a bit of inspiration from Albania and Northern Ireland who have shown what you can do if you get on with it and use your resources wisely rather than simply moaning about not having the players that you had in the past.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If Wales and Norn Iron had not qualified, I think that we could be reasonably happy with what we have seen recently. Huge improvement from Potter days.
Fine line between success and failure, and really, our chances were slim to none after defeat in Georgia.

[easty]

Griffths and Rhodes rightly pulled out. Strachan has snubbed them far to many times and stayed loyal to guys like Brown, Hutton, Naismith. Sorry but I'd have told him to bolt!

You don't rate Naismith? How many poor players play regularly in the EPL and have a hat-trick vs Chelsea?

[Libby Hibby]

Georgia was a shocker but Thursday night is what ultimately cost us, the last kick goal for Poland and the Irish result against the Gerry's which turned the group on its head. We were cruising for the play offs and perhaps second place if Thursday had went our way.

People who hold Georgia as the main reason for failure could also claim that we should've got a point in Gemany but didn't and should've won in Poland but instead drew.

It was a decent campaign in an extremely hard group but there are a lot of other factors why we failed, just not only the Georgia game...

[Smartie]

Georgia was a shocker but Thursday night is what ultimately cost us, the last kick goal for Poland and the Irish result against the Gerry's which turned the group on its head. We were cruising for the play offs and perhaps second place if Thursday had went our way.

People who hold Georgia as the main reason for failure could also claim that we should've got a point in Gemany but didn't and should've won in Poland but instead drew.

It was a decent campaign in an extremely hard group but there are a lot of other factors we failed, just not the Georgia game...

The fact that all the other teams in the group took maximum points from the Gibraltar and Georgia games draws attention to our result in Georgia. If we'd beaten them (as every else did) then our results in the head-to-heads were enough to get into the playoffs. Draws in Ireland and Poland are decent results. We competed ok with Germany, who on Earth would have expected Ireland to take 4 points from them?

I don't ever really buy that we "should've" done anything - we did what we did and got what we got. What I would say though, is that whether they are World Class or not we lost some shocking goals against Germany, particularly the second one over there. We lost a goal at home to Gibraltar FFS! Several of the goals against Poland - shockers. More than anything we need to defend better.

[Libby Hibby]

That's my point, there were many more results within the group that conspired to our eventual downfall, not just the Georgia away which was poor but also the easiest to spot and pick on, what happened on Thursday could not of been predicted and ultimately cost us...by a lot of people's logic that 'everyone else beat Georgia away so we should've' but it's interesting to point out, that by contrast, Scotland were the only side to take anything from Poland away...worth bearing in mind

[stantonhibby]

The fact that all the other teams in the group took maximum points from the Gibraltar and Georgia games draws attention to our result in Georgia. If we'd beaten them (as every else did) then our results in the head-to-heads were enough to get into the playoffs. Draws in Ireland and Poland are decent results. We competed ok with Germany, who on Earth would have expected Ireland to take 4 points from them?

I don't ever really buy that we "should've" done anything - we did what we did and got what we got. What I would say though, is that whether they are World Class or not we lost some shocking goals against Germany, particularly the second one over there. We lost a goal at home to Gibraltar FFS! Several of the goals against Poland - shockers. More than anything we need to defend better.

I agree re defending although we only conceded 3 more goals than Germany in the end. The luck of the Irish was very apt! How many injury time goals did they score? However you make your own luck I suppose.

[Thecat23]

You don't rate Naismith? How many poor players play regularly in the EPL and have a hat-trick vs Chelsea?

To be honest I actually don't mind him. But I still think Leigh should be given the chance to play. As for the hat-trick the way Chelsea are playing he won't be the first and won't be the last to do that. ;)

[Bishop Hibee]

Griffths and Rhodes rightly pulled out. Strachan has snubbed them far to many times and stayed loyal to guys like Brown, Hutton, Naismith. Sorry but I'd have told him to bolt!

If Rhodes could play at a higher level he'd be in the EPL already. Fletcher scored 4 goals in 2 games so Strachan was correct in his selection. Griffiths is a good player and I really hope he didn't spit the dummy.

[majorhibs]

I don't particularly have many gripes about Scotland's campaign. Apart from a bad first half in Dublin and a poor effort in Tbilisi we played pretty well in our matches.

We don't have any superstars that's for sure, but even so we did show a good team spirit and stood up well in our games. In any group you hope for a bit of help from the favourites, especially when they are favourites to win the whole competition. We all saw Ireland play us and they didn't look anything special, but they took 4 points out of 6 from the Germans. Its not up to Germany to do us any favours of course, but FFS !!!

The whole thing looks a lot worse with England, N Ireland, Wales and I suppose the Republic all qualifying .... but being handed a group with the world champions, one of the top 5 countries in Europe and what was in effect a derby match didn't do us any favours .... as it is, in all 6 of these games we lost once. Its just a shame that a decent effort like that is being forgotten because of one bad result and performance.

On a different, but related, note:

For years now loads of other countries, especially the African nations, have made noises about one country ( the UK ) being allowed to enter 4 teams into the world cup. That was due to a deal done after WW2 that in return for financial help from the UK associations FIFA would respect the separate identities of the 4 home nations. Arguably the first bribe in FIFA history : - )

If all 4 UK nations had made it to France I would be willing to bet that some of the nations who didn't make it would have began to take the same attitude to that competition and the world cup would be dragged into the argument, to the delight of the Africans.

Whatever Blatter's shortcomings there is no doubt that he did make strenuous efforts to expand the WC finals outside of Europe and South America and as a result he was and is viewed as a friend by the African and Asian nations. Anybody who wants to replace Blatter now will have to get that huge power block on board and will need their votes to get elected ..... What better way than to rip up a 70 year old agreement, made before half of the participants in the world cup were even independent countries, and promise an extra qualification place to Africa and / or Asia. What better way would there have been to justify such a move than to point to the fact that one country was able to have 4 teams in the Euro championship finals ..... from an outside point of view that could justifiably be viewed as patently unfair. Even now with 3 countries making it eyebrows could be raised.

The other countries would also have a case in pointing to Wales and asking why it is that a country whose full time professional clubs play in the English league can enter national competitions at all. I know Wales has a football league under the Welsh FA, but I doubt that would impress the other countries, who could probably quite easily argue that in all but the minds of the Welsh, Wales has been a de facto part of England for going on 1,500 years. That's not my personal view by the way before any Welsh folk on here start trying to find out where I live :greengrin

For that matter you can chuck in the fact that Britain competes as one country in the Olympic games and Athletics world championships and entered a football team in the last Olympics and wants to do so again in Rio. Its only us that thinks the Olympic football isn't a big deal, so that also draws attention to the one UK team situation.

Anyway ..... The fact that 3 of the 4 home nations have made it to the Euro finals could in the end turn out to be anything but a cause for celebration, watch this space as they say.

Come on though, in the here & now these African nations will not have loud voices for long if corruption is getting looked at, ever tried just to pass through some of them? But also, getting really real, when you have Gibraltar, San Marino, the Faroes & other very small isolated lowly populated places, who are at the table now, really how could any of them justify taking places away from seperate countries in one Island? Leave the scaremongering to others, unless you are privy to some other info, but that auld chestnut, with the small nations allowed to compete in qualifying, no just from here but Asia, Africa, Australias, North America, where do YOU see a case for nations the size of Scotland out, nations the size of Gibraltar in for qualifiers?

[Danderhall Hibs]

To be honest I actually don't mind him. But I still think Leigh should be given the chance to play. As for the hat-trick the way Chelsea are playing he won't be the first and won't be the last to do that. ;)

If it wasn't him who was the first?

[matty_f]

If it wasn't him who was the first?

Dion Dublin, in 1997. (Since the EPL was formed)

It's also been done by Patrick Berger, N****wu Kanu, Robin van Persie.

It's a pretty exclusive club, given only four other players have done it in the best part of 20 years.

Naismith also is - as things stand - the last player to do it.

[J-C]

I think Griffiths has every right to feel peed off when Martin from Derby is getting a game ahead of him, Griffiths is scoring for fun for Celtic in the league and in Europe, yet still gets over looked, has he ****ged Strachan's daughter?

TBH there should be a pre qualifying group for these lesser teams like Gibraltar, Faroes etc before being allowed to take part in these matches, losing 50+ goals is just ridiculous.

Our defence is shocking, christ even Gibraltar scored against us, this should be the first area of the team looked at, if that doesn't improve, we'll never qualify.

[easty]

Our defence is shocking, christ even Gibraltar scored against us, this should be the first area of the team looked at, if that doesn't improve, we'll never qualify.

We can look at it all we want, the individual talent just isn't there unfortunately. Russell Martin is probably the best centre half we have available to us. Other than Russell Martin, who do we have? Grant Hanley, Christophe Berra, Charlie Mulgrew, Gordon Greer...poor options that are never going to be players you would trust to keep us tight at the back in an international match.

Do we have any young centre halfs coming through?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Come on though, in the here & now these African nations will not have loud voices for long if corruption is getting looked at, ever tried just to pass through some of them? But also, getting really real, when you have Gibraltar, San Marino, the Faroes & other very small isolated lowly populated places, who are at the table now, really how could any of them justify taking places away from seperate countries in one Island? Leave the scaremongering to others, unless you are privy to some other info, but that auld chestnut, with the small nations allowed to compete in qualifying, no just from here but Asia, Africa, Australias, North America, where do YOU see a case for nations the size of Scotland out, nations the size of Gibraltar in for qualifiers?

I don't disagree with your premise here .... but that's not how the other confederations would look at it.

Currently Europe, with 52 countries if you include Turkey and Israel has 13 places. Africa with 50 countries or more has 5 places ..... I highly doubt the population of each country matters. What would matter is the political identity of each country and in that context the Africans would win hands down in a court of law I'm willing to bet. If it came to the crunch and Africa demanded another place, which could only be gained from Europe, what is the obvious solution that would not only satisfy the Africans, but keep the Europeans happy as well?

With FIFA in turmoil and a new broom looking likely I have a feeling this could become an issue that the Africans or Asians could move from the back burner .. especially if the bribes are going to dry up. Its not scaremongering, just an observation.

Look at the SFAs total opposition to a British Olympic team .... they know that this could become a 'live' issue. The fact that the British Olympic committee went ahead and entered a British team anyway did us no favours whatsoever and anybody who thinks the other FIFA confederations didn't take note is being optimistic.

[Monts]

I don't disagree with your premise here .... but that's not how the other confederations would look at it.

Currently Europe, with 52 countries if you include Turkey and Israel has 13 places. Africa with 50 countries or more has 5 places ..... I highly doubt the population of each country matters. What would matter is the political identity of each country and in that context the Africans would win hands down in a court of law I'm willing to bet. If it came to the crunch and Africa demanded another place, which could only be gained from Europe, what is the obvious solution that would not only satisfy the Africans, but keep the Europeans happy as well?

With FIFA in turmoil and a new broom looking likely I have a feeling this could become an issue that the Africans or Asians could move from the back burner .. especially if the bribes are going to dry up. Its not scaremongering, just an observation.

Look at the SFAs total opposition to a British Olympic team .... they know that this could become a 'live' issue. The fact that the British Olympic committee went ahead and entered a British team anyway did us no favours whatsoever and anybody who thinks the other FIFA confederations didn't take note is being optimistic.

Surely the obvious solution would be to reduce europes places and increase africas places. That doesnt necessarily impact on whether the home nations compete separately. If the home nations were just competing as the uk, as it stands, europe would still have 13 places and africa 5.

[hibs0666]

If Wales and Norn Iron had not qualified, I think that we could be reasonably happy with what we have seen recently. Huge improvement from Potter days.
Fine line between success and failure, and really, our chances were slim to none after defeat in Georgia.

I think that's true of the first half of the campaign whereas the second half was petty grim.

[jdships]

I really hope he retires. I couldnt care less who he used to play for he's been poor for a while and its time for a change.

Can't argue with that :agree:

[Thecat23]

If it wasn't him who was the first?

Really need to word my sentences better.

[Smartie]

We can look at it all we want, the individual talent just isn't there unfortunately. Russell Martin is probably the best centre half we have available to us. Other than Russell Martin, who do we have? Grant Hanley, Christophe Berra, Charlie Mulgrew, Gordon Greer...poor options that are never going to be players you would trust to keep us tight at the back in an international match.

Do we have any young centre halfs coming through?

I honestly don't think we've got anyone much better than Hanlon or Forster.

Hanlon isn't doing himself many favours playing in Scotland's second tier. Given a bigger and better test he might rise to it.

I've always thought that Forster looks like a player but he's never been able to get a consistent run of games to move up a level and prove that he's cut the silly mistakes out of his game.

I don't think Berra's ever been significantly better than those 2 anyway.

Is the chap Souttar at Dundee United not a CB? he was highly rated when he broke through.

Don't know if there's anyone down South.

[J-C]

We can look at it all we want, the individual talent just isn't there unfortunately. Russell Martin is probably the best centre half we have available to us. Other than Russell Martin, who do we have? Grant Hanley, Christophe Berra, Charlie Mulgrew, Gordon Greer...poor options that are never going to be players you would trust to keep us tight at the back in an international match.

Do we have any young centre halfs coming through?


When you look at our past centre halfs, they all played Prem football, but only Russell Martin is and he's English? it doesn't look good for the future does it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Dion Dublin, in 1997. (Since the EPL was formed)

It's also been done by Patrick Berger, N****wu Kanu, Robin van Persie.

It's a pretty exclusive club, given only four other players have done it in the best part of 20 years.

Naismith also is - as things stand - the last player to do it.

Good info stat to. But we're talking about the way Chelsea are playing just now which I think makes him the first and the last to have done it.

[Bad Martini]

Lets be honest and serious for a moment; you can say the last minute goal from Poland and the Irish result didnt help. Thats true...however, in our GIFT and where we done nothing to further our own case was the Georgia game. Thats a fact - we were not outplayed, outmatched, outfoxed etc - we were *****, second to lots of balls and did not appear fully motivated and up for it. And THAT is where the damage was done.

If we assume most other games (which I agree) we done mostly all we could, fair dues.

Georgia we definitely did not fully fire.

And thus, it is that game that cost us dearly. Be fair, we shouldnt be discussing not beating Georgia. It should have (and could have) been a foregone. You need only look at our game against Germany and Poland that followed....

Anyways, out again. FWIW, I canny see the irish getting very far and I dont really care either way. As for the welsh, northern irish and that other mob down the road - dont give a toss either.

We're out, it's over...ENDOF

[easty]

When you look at our past centre halfs, they all played Prem football, but only Russell Martin is and he's English? it doesn't look good for the future does it.

:agree: 69% of players in the EPL were English when the league first started, thats now down to a third with so many foreigners playing in it. We'll be suffering similarly, though obv to a lesser extent.

I'm sure our future will involve picking up a load more English players, who aren't good enough for England so will settle for a call up for Scotland, because of a relative being born here, and despite them having never had any affinity to our country whatsoever.

[ancient hibee]

I don't particularly have many gripes about Scotland's campaign. Apart from a bad first half in Dublin and a poor effort in Tbilisi we played pretty well in our matches.

We don't have any superstars that's for sure, but even so we did show a good team spirit and stood up well in our games. In any group you hope for a bit of help from the favourites, especially when they are favourites to win the whole competition. We all saw Ireland play us and they didn't look anything special, but they took 4 points out of 6 from the Germans. Its not up to Germany to do us any favours of course, but FFS !!!

The whole thing looks a lot worse with England, N Ireland, Wales and I suppose the Republic all qualifying .... but being handed a group with the world champions, one of the top 5 countries in Europe and what was in effect a derby match didn't do us any favours .... as it is, in all 6 of these games we lost once. Its just a shame that a decent effort like that is being forgotten because of one bad result and performance.

On a different, but related, note:

For years now loads of other countries, especially the African nations, have made noises about one country ( the UK ) being allowed to enter 4 teams into the world cup. That was due to a deal done after WW2 that in return for financial help from the UK associations FIFA would respect the separate identities of the 4 home nations. Arguably the first bribe in FIFA history : - )

If all 4 UK nations had made it to France I would be willing to bet that some of the nations who didn't make it would have began to take the same attitude to that competition and the world cup would be dragged into the argument, to the delight of the Africans.

Whatever Blatter's shortcomings there is no doubt that he did make strenuous efforts to expand the WC finals outside of Europe and South America and as a result he was and is viewed as a friend by the African and Asian nations. Anybody who wants to replace Blatter now will have to get that huge power block on board and will need their votes to get elected ..... What better way than to rip up a 70 year old agreement, made before half of the participants in the world cup were even independent countries, and promise an extra qualification place to Africa and / or Asia. What better way would there have been to justify such a move than to point to the fact that one country was able to have 4 teams in the Euro championship finals ..... from an outside point of view that could justifiably be viewed as patently unfair. Even now with 3 countries making it eyebrows could be raised.

The other countries would also have a case in pointing to Wales and asking why it is that a country whose full time professional clubs play in the English league can enter national competitions at all. I know Wales has a football league under the Welsh FA, but I doubt that would impress the other countries, who could probably quite easily argue that in all but the minds of the Welsh, Wales has been a de facto part of England for going on 1,500 years. That's not my personal view by the way before any Welsh folk on here start trying to find out where I live :greengrin

For that matter you can chuck in the fact that Britain competes as one country in the Olympic games and Athletics world championships and entered a football team in the last Olympics and wants to do so again in Rio. Its only us that thinks the Olympic football isn't a big deal, so that also draws attention to the one UK team situation.

Anyway ..... The fact that 3 of the 4 home nations have made it to the Euro finals could in the end turn out to be anything but a cause for celebration, watch this space as they say.

If your reference to one of the top 5 european countries means Poland you might be interested to know that Poland are below Scotland in the world rankings.This is a truer comparison than the european rankings because it doesn't use club results only international ones.

[CorrieHibs]

Surely the obvious solution would be to reduce europes places and increase africas places. That doesnt necessarily impact on whether the home nations compete separately. If the home nations were just competing as the uk, as it stands, europe would still have 13 places and africa 5.

Why would they reduce Europe places? The furthest a African team ever got is the semi's at a WC. The more European teams the better.

[Monts]

Why would they reduce Europe places? The furthest a African team ever got is the semi's at a WC. The more European teams the better.

This was in response to someone suggesting that the obvious solution to African Nations having too few places and Europe too many was to combine the home nations into one. I wasnt saying that reducing european places and increasing african ones should actually happen, but its a far more obvious solution than what they were suggesting.

[Thecat23]

Good info stat to. But we're talking about the way Chelsea are playing just now which I think makes him the first and the last to have done it.

Yeah but I said he won't be the last.. Implying it will happen again! Unless your being a smart arse I'm not really sure why you mentioned it??

[HibeesLA]

This was in response to someone suggesting that the obvious solution to African Nations having too few places and Europe too many was to combine the home nations into one. I wasnt saying that reducing european places and increasing african ones should actually happen, but its a far more obvious solution than what they were suggesting.

I think that if you wanted to re-balance the amount of teams based on population, number of countries, geo-political issues, or whatever reason that seems to be the fairest, that doesn't mean you have to combine the home nations into one. World Cup has a qualification system, and theoretically, the best teams progress. Reduce the European places, and let the qualification system do it's job, but I don't think the 2 go hand in hand. It may be that in the future, with less places, that the home nations decide among themselves that the best solution is to put forward a joint place, but that shouldn't be dictated to by anyone else.

[majorhibs]

I think that if you wanted to re-balance the amount of teams based on population, number of countries, geo-political issues, or whatever reason that seems to be the fairest, that doesn't mean you have to combine the home nations into one. World Cup has a qualification system, and theoretically, the best teams progress. Reduce the European places, and let the qualification system do it's job, but I don't think the 2 go hand in hand. It may be that in the future, with less places, that the home nations decide among themselves that the best solution is to put forward a joint place, but that shouldn't be dictated to by anyone else.

Are you serious with that last bit? What rocket fuel are you people on? Just give the nonsense a rest! There is trumpets abroad go on about this drivel, but nae need from home! Unless your so caught up in watching sky & EPL & the likes its more your thing, but tInternational Countries with the history of the "home nations" as lots seem to like to refer, but which means nowt internationally & none of the so called opponents would ever use, but to even think this nonsense while the team on telly the now tagainst Wales, Andorra with ta population of 79k, or San Marino, 31 ish thou, Gibraltar, are tall still going to beable to take place in the qualifiers- IMO people going on about this are the Scottish version of Turkeys voting for Christmas. All you international football haters & people who are disulliosened with Scottish nations performances please gie it a rest. The people who actually attend are well p####d off tae but it does not make the general current mood any easier with snipers from within!

[HibeesLA]

Are you serious with that last bit? What rocket fuel are you people on? Just give the nonsense a rest! There is trumpets abroad go on about this drivel, but nae need from home! Unless your so caught up in watching sky & EPL & the likes its more your thing, but tInternational Countries with the history of the "home nations" as lots seem to like to refer, but which means nowt internationally & none of the so called opponents would ever use, but to even think this nonsense while the team on telly the now tagainst Wales, Andorra with ta population of 79k, or San Marino, 31 ish thou, Gibraltar, are tall still going to beable to take place in the qualifiers- IMO people going on about this are the Scottish version of Turkeys voting for Christmas. All you international football haters & people who are disulliosened with Scottish nations performances please gie it a rest. The people who actually attend are well p####d off tae but it does not make the general current mood any easier with snipers from within!

Yes I was serious with the last bit, and I'm not really sure what the rest of your post was about, but I'm not an International hater, I'm not a turkey and I don't vote for Christmas.

Maybe to make it more simple to read, I'll put it in bullets:


There is no impact to the UK having 4 teams in the World Cup by changing the number of teams qualifying from Europe
Qualification to the World Cup will be more difficult to attain with less teams, and this will have a direct impact on Scotland
FIFA, or any other organisation, should not be allowed to dictate whether Scotland, England, N.Ireland or Wales are allowed to compete as separate nations



The last part was a qualification to the 3rd point. It was not an opinion, it was merely stating that if anyone should decide on a UK team, it would be the 4 nations Football Associations coming together.

Hope that makes you feel a bit better

[Monts]

Yes I was serious with the last bit, and I'm not really sure what the rest of your post was about, but I'm not an International hater, I'm not a turkey and I don't vote for Christmas.

Maybe to make it more simple to read, I'll put it in bullets:


There is no impact to the UK having 4 teams in the World Cup by changing the number of teams qualifying from Europe
Qualification to the World Cup will be more difficult to attain with less teams, and this will have a direct impact on Scotland
FIFA, or any other organisation, should not be allowed to dictate whether Scotland, England, N.Ireland or Wales are allowed to compete as separate nations



The last part was a qualification to the 3rd point. It was not an opinion, it was merely stating that if anyone should decide on a UK team, it would be the 4 nations Football Associations coming together.

Hope that makes you feel a bit better

Your first point was exactly my point

[fulshie]

I think Scotland had a reasonable campaign, I got the feeling earlier in the group that we would be scrapping for third spot, particularly after Poland beat Germany and Ireland took a point off them. On driving through to the Poland game I said to my friends that it would be all about who's luck holds out best between us and Ireland because lets face it, we did carry a bit of luck e,g the 2-2 draw in Poland we were under the cosh and it took fine saves from Marshall to deny a Pole victory, we also got 4 points thanks to 2 deflected goals. All that said it was Ireland whose luck stretched farthest. Fair play to them in beating Germany but, their stats in that match were pretty much the same as ours when we played them at Hampden. I have however, got one massive gripe about the campaign and, its against Gordon Strachan and his attitude towards the Georgia game. When asked if it was a must win game he said NO its not a must win. I'm sorry but that to me is unexceptable! I'll bet you Martin O'Neil never once stated that any game Ireland went into was, not a must win. When GS made that statement I think that feeling trickled into the minds of our players and consequently made them play well below themselves which in turn is a fault in our players as well but, Strachans "not a must win" statement didn't help. :boo hoo:

[Gordy M]

I think Scotland had a reasonable campaign, I got the feeling earlier in the group that we would be scrapping for third spot, particularly after Poland beat Germany and Ireland took a point off them. On driving through to the Poland game I said to my friends that it would be all about who's luck holds out best between us and Ireland because lets face it, we did carry a bit of luck e,g the 2-2 draw in Poland we were under the cosh and it took fine saves from Marshall to deny a Pole victory, we also got 4 points thanks to 2 deflected goals. All that said it was Ireland whose luck stretched farthest. Fair play to them in beating Germany but, their stats in that match were pretty much the same as ours when we played them at Hampden. I have however, got one massive gripe about the campaign and, its against Gordon Strachan and his attitude towards the Georgia game. When asked if it was a must win game he said NO its not a must win. I'm sorry but that to me is unexceptable! I'll bet you Martin O'Neil never once stated that any game Ireland went into was, not a must win. When GS made that statement I think that feeling trickled into the minds of our players and consequently made them play well below themselves which in turn is a fault in our players as well but, Strachans "not a must win" statement didn't help. :boo hoo:

Thing is, it wasnt technically a 'must win' game, we couldve qualified without winning there, and if strachan says its must win, and we dont, then basically he would be accused of giving up there and then?? You cant say its a must win then come out after and say ah well it wasnt really, cos we can still qualify? He was damned if he did or didnt say it was must win....esp when we lost!

[majorhibs]

Yes I was serious with the last bit, and I'm not really sure what the rest of your post was about, but I'm not an International hater, I'm not a turkey and I don't vote for Christmas.

Maybe to make it more simple to read, I'll put it in bullets:


There is no impact to the UK having 4 teams in the World Cup by changing the number of teams qualifying from Europe
Qualification to the World Cup will be more difficult to attain with less teams, and this will have a direct impact on Scotland
FIFA, or any other organisation, should not be allowed to dictate whether Scotland, England, N.Ireland or Wales are allowed to compete as separate nations



The last part was a qualification to the 3rd point. It was not an opinion, it was merely stating that if anyone should decide on a UK team, it would be the 4 nations Football Associations coming together.

Hope that makes you feel a bit better

No-one should even be discussing "a UK team" it is utter tripe, sometimes by people with a grudge towards the UK, sometimes by people who know no better, or otherwise, but how it gets airtime, is a strange one when you look at the circ's of some of the "nations" playing for qualification. I have looked in the past at the Australasia I Think its called, groups & number of places available, & thought to myself I really wish we were in that group with those teams & the number of places available.

[Mixu62]

The European teams have proven time after time that they are worthy of the number of places they get by consistenly reaching the latter stages of the World Cup. I'd argue that Africa and Asia don't really have a case to demand more places cos they simply don't have that track record (yet). Especially Asia. Used to annoy the hell out of me watching Saudi etc shipping 7 or 8 goals when Scotland couldn't qualify. In fact I'd argue that you could pick any of the teams from Europe who just fail to qualify for the world cup, and they could probably beat the Asian teams who do qualify. Based purely on performances and depth of quality, you could argue that Europe is under-represented. If you were going to have a world cup with only the best 36 countries in the world, how many African/Asian nations would be there?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Wee Gogs staying on

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34540057

Gordon Strachan is expected to stay on as Scotland manager, BBC Sport has learned.