Leeann D

[grunt]

If you've "got a business brain" then you'll be able to understand financial accounts.
Hibs last accounts are on this website here http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297211-****The-Accounts-To-31st-July-2014-See-Them-Here****

They show that prior to the debt restructuring, the club owed about £6.5m mortgages to the bank, and a further £3m to Sir Tom.
After the restructuring, we owe £5m to Sir Tom.

He has paid off about £4.5m of the bank's debt, personally.

But you'll know all this, with your business brain.

[FranckSuzy]

5million loan to pay of what debts - the bank wrote the debt off- sir T saved the club I was there - he rebuilt the club fact--- thanks very much appreciated - now he is in danger if leaving it in a worse position than the one he inherited - even that fat tor b mercer couldn't put us in the championship for years no it took years of sir rod getting it wrong again and again and again but heh Leeann posts on hibs net so all is well .

Big frank is on the board and he still like " to sit with the fans" oh we are grateful

What happens when Stubbs goes because he will as soon as he is wanted he has loyalty to Everton everything else is a stepping stone - read his book - he is Blaise about the whole thing


you chaps believe what you like but the truth is there in front of your eyes -

8k and our longest ever term in the lower echelons in what is scotlands worst ever period - but heh a barn in trannent and everyone still believes .

Sack the board - the problems still exist and when we get it wrong again - wberevdo we go

Re the part in bold, so you keep saying. His book was published in 2013 though, well before he joined Hibs, so how do you know he'll be off?

Mind you, not that that's the biggest issue with your countless posts....

[matty_f]

Ok enough :flag:

Believe as you will,and let's hope Stubbs get us up -'buy shares if you like - nobody is committing a crime it's just not Transparent

Where's your transparency?

Tell us what we're missing.

I'll happily believe you and back your cause if you can give evidence to support it. Just now all we have is "the bank probably wrote off more than £5m debt. "

That's pretty weak.

Considering we were good for the money, a very, very low credit risk, and were in no financial trouble, there was very little justification for a bank to write off ANY of the debt, let alone multiples of millions of pounds.

Anyone with business sense would see that.

[Benny Brazil]

Ok enough :flag:

Believe as you will,and let's hope Stubbs get us up -'buy shares if you like - nobody is committing a crime it's just not Transparent

Do you have any facts at all to back up what you are saying - Yes or No?

If the answer to question 1 is Yes - then please provide them

If the answer is No - then you are just **** stirring.

[Northernhibee]

ok I will be quiet lets not ask for transparency -I will await my court summons - what bit is libelous ? Leeann touting hibs - lack of transparency - low crowds - sir t getting a better deal then is known ?

I will quote you this bit again:

"sir T God a great deal just a pity he didn't pass it all on to Hibernian"

Proof. Now.

[Jonnyboy]

Pointless trying to debate with someone whose views are so entrenched, they can't see past them

Page 9 and my view hasn't changed.

One question I'd like to put to the OP - if you live outside the UK, how can you say 'most' Hibs fans think like you do?

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone with a business brain found see through his from day 1 hence the TAKE up OFF SHARES and complete lack of trust at ER
I have run my own business for 26 years, and advised hundreds of others.

I couldn't see through it.

Then again, I look at facts and evidence before coming to my opinion, rather than agenda - led opinions coming first and trying to shoehorn the facts to fit them.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[FranckSuzy]

This is all a bit 'former USSR Hibs' for me..............

[matty_f]

Transparency is heavily weighted in Hibs' favour at the moment. Still waiting for the transparency to say STF is quids in with the share issue.

[matty_f]

This is all a bit 'former USSR Hibs' for me..............

The thought crossed my mind as well.

[Jonnyboy]

This is all a bit 'former USSR Hibs' for me..............

Are you Russian to the wrong conclusion, I wonder :wink:

[FranckSuzy]

Are you Russian to the wrong conclusion, I wonder :wink:

Cossack be :agree:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Wasn't Aberdeen's debt largely written off by a wealthy family?

Aye. Willie and Elaine Donald who own WM Donald.

[matty_f]

Aye.


http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/aberdeen-strike-deal-to-clear-debts-of-nearly-15m-1-3602427

You're right. So there's a hole in the argument as well. Banks weren't chasing football clubs to write off their debt.

[Benny Brazil]

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/aberdeen-strike-deal-to-clear-debts-of-nearly-15m-1-3602427

You're right. So there's a hole in the argument as well. Banks weren't chasing football clubs to write off their debt.

Just one? :greengrin

[Peevemor]

This is all a bit 'former USSR Hibs' for me..............


Nah, although he had/has his own view on the goings on at ER, he spouted nowhere near as much unfounded crap as the OP.

[matty_f]

Just one? :greengrin

Well, another one. :greengrin

[green day]

ok I will be quiet lets not ask for transparency -I will await my court summons - what bit is libelous ? Leeann touting hibs - lack of transparency - low crowds - sir t getting a better deal then is known ?

You are the Hibs Net equivalent of one of those Nigerian scammers my retired Mum gets on the phone during the day.

I.e. best ignored and no point debating with as they don't have a Scooby.

[Forza Fred]

I question the purpose of the O P's post.

Got a stinky aroma about it.

Nothing has changed since I posted way back in post number19, other than my views have been reinforced.

I'm just surprised the thread has ran so long.

[Jonnyboy]

This is all a bit 'former USSR Hibs' for me..............


Transparency is heavily weighted in Hibs' favour at the moment. Still waiting for the transparency to say STF is quids in with the share issue.


Nah, although he had/has his own view on the goings on at ER, he spouted nowhere near as much unfounded crap as the OP.

:greengrin RH was far more literate than this imposter :greengrin

[The Falcon]

This sounds like the same sort of rubbish that Hands on Hibs used to come out with.


Was that about EM being split from ER and that EM was actually owned by STF and Hibs paid massive amounts of rent to the "Farmer family?

Then when all that was proven to be drivel they claimed responsibility for thwarting Farmer's cunning plans?

Or something like that.

[Lucius Apuleius]

:greengrin RH was far more literate than this imposter :greengrin

That was my thoughts too J. Can I just add that for a supposed successful businessman who can manage to see things in accounts that successful accountants can't see, his English and grammar is $#%:&€? $€!/=.

[mca]

Had someone Phone me up to tell me my Laptop and Windows were all corrupt !!!

Window cleaner was here on Wednesday.. I Told them.. :wink:

They Didn't take a Lot of convincing to Hang-Up !!!




So Many Scams in this Corrupt World.. But I Really Do Think Hibs are Open and Honest...

[NAE NOOKIE]

5million loan to pay of what debts - the bank wrote the debt off- sir T saved the club I was there - he rebuilt the club fact--- thanks very much appreciated - now he is in danger if leaving it in a worse position than the one he inherited - even that fat tor b mercer couldn't put us in the championship for years no it took years of sir rod getting it wrong again and again and again but heh Leeann posts on hibs net so all is well .

Big frank is on the board and he still like " to sit with the fans" oh we are grateful

What happens when Stubbs goes because he will as soon as he is wanted he has loyalty to Everton everything else is a stepping stone - read his book - he is Blaise about the whole thing


you chaps believe what you like but the truth is there in front of your eyes -

8k and our longest ever term in the lower echelons in what is scotlands worst ever period - but heh a barn in trannent and everyone still believes .

Sack the board - the problems still exist and when we get it wrong again -/ wberevdo we go

Its this sort of stuff that makes me think you have lost touch with reality mate ...... you say you have followed Hibs and therefor obviously football in general for decades and yet you post this sort of stuff as if it was some sort of a revelation that none of us are aware of. Tell me what sort of person in football doesn't dream of playing for or managing the club they support. You seem to be accusing Stubbs of somehow not fully concentrating on making the Hibs job a success because his mind is on the next rung of the ladder. If that's the case tell me in what universe failing to do a good job here will put him on the radar of a bigger club than Hibs, never mind an English premier league team. The fact that he no doubt would want to manage Everton makes it vital to him that he is a success here, which is a positive for us, not the negative you are trying to present it as.

Your posts are screaming more and more 'why wont anybody listen to me?' ....... we are listening mate, its just that with every post you make less and less sense, present no more evidence to back up what you are saying than you did in page one and get more and more incoherent to boot.

You have had your say now and have failed to persuade a number of people who can match you in scepticism any day of the week that you are right .... don't you think that now its time to shuffle off into the night mumbling stuff like 'they'll all be sorry' ... 'they'll see one day that I was right' .... 'I'll have the last laugh' etc, etc, etc ...... followed by a maniacal cackle.

[schinkenotto]

The OP is clearly part of the Hands on Hibs and worse Mafia.He is clearly upset that he and his "associates" haven't been able get their claws on Hibs.Noone argues that Hibs had become a shambles,but anyone who thinks that STF is making any money out of this is clearly deluded and malicious for their own purposes.Leann Dempster and Alan Stubbs are a breath of fresh air and should be given a proper chance to turn things around.

I speak as a Season Ticket holder for over 50 years and someone.who as a solicitor,whose firm acted for Kenny Maclean Snr and Hands Off Hibs and made the initial contact with STF at the time of Mercer's "takeover" bid,can testify that there never was and still is not anything in Hibs for STF,other than a love of his Leith upbringing and hassle from clowns like the OP.

This really is getting tiresome,particularly as we are at last showing signs of a real recovery.

[The_Sauz]

Ok enough :flag:

Believe as you will,and let's hope Stubbs get us up -'buy shares if you like - nobody is committing a crime it's just not Transparent

The more you keep saying that, the more I think you are Fat Sally McCoist on the wind-up :agree:

[Rougier45]

The more you keep saying that, the more I think you are Fat Sally McCoist on the wind-up :agree:

Fat Sally doesnt like me - I told him to his face that the so called goal of his career - overhead kick against us at park head in cup final wasn't even the goal of the game .

That belonged to that big hertz donkey - Dave McPherson .

Here's what I know

Banks where running scared and Sir T hadn't guaranteed anything - they wanted football teams of the books at all costs - we probably paid around 20 % to write them off - maybe even 10% - maybe less.

I have no proof only common sense- I find it difficult that. Every one here is so against even considering the idea.


Hibs should be able to tell the fans - who in my opinion already should own the club anyway via season tickets ect .

What the exact bank debts where

How much was written off ? This is what they won't tell you

How they came to 5 million loan

If Sir T wrote off as much as the banks then the 5 million would be a fraction of that and we could spend that money investing in the team rather than servicing debt .

Interest free makes me upset - it's all spin.

Doesn't make them bad people what they're doing - they are protecting their own assets but by god they are not saints .


For the record hearts have hot it right Robbie nay brains may go but Levein won't - there has to be continuity when a manager leaves - we fall, apart and start from scratch every time .



Gordon stracham for director of footbball director and board member- the mangers will always come and go but the shape / mission / values should be consistent .


Shape - attacking football synonymous with our history

Mission Europe every year - 1 cup final every 3 years - never out of top 4

Integrity, strength & Honour and transparency

This is even boring me now .

If hibs would answer the questions I posed and get rid of the failure that is Rod then a lot of people May be tempted back.if they get the product on the park correct also.

As for things are going good - wt - 3rd in championship -, I would hate to be here when things are going wrong .


HH :hibees

[Peevemor]

I have no proof...


Can you not just shut up then? You're paranoid ramblings are a waste of bandwith and interest nobobody.

[Jack]

Fat Sally doesnt like me - I told him to his face that the so called goal of his career - overhead kick against us at park head in cup final wasn't even the goal of the game .

That belonged to that big hertz donkey - Dave McPherson .

Here's what I know

Banks where running scared and Sir T hadn't guaranteed anything - they wanted football teams of the books at all costs - we probably paid around 20 % to write them off - maybe even 10% - maybe less.

I have no proof only common sense- I find it difficult that. Every one here is so against even considering the idea.


Hibs should be able to tell the fans - who in my opinion already should own the club anyway via season tickets ect .

What the exact bank debts where

How much was written off ? This is what they won't tell you

How they came to 5 million loan

If Sir T wrote off as much as the banks then the 5 million would be a fraction of that and we could spend that money investing in the team rather than servicing debt .

Interest free makes me upset - it's all spin.

Doesn't make them bad people what they're doing - they are protecting their own assets but by god they are not saints .


For the record hearts have hot it right Robbie nay brains may go but Levein won't - there has to be continuity when a manager leaves - we fall, apart and start from scratch every time .



Gordon stracham for director of footbball director and board member- the mangers will always come and go but the shape / mission / values should be consistent .


Shape - attacking football synonymous with our history

Mission Europe every year - 1 cup final every 3 years - never out of top 4

Integrity, strength & Honour and transparency

This is even boring me now .

If hibs would answer the questions I posed and get rid of the failure that is Rod then a lot of people May be tempted back.if they get the product on the park correct also.

As for things are going good - wt - 3rd in championship -, I would hate to be here when things are going wrong .


HH :hibees

Another long long long sleepless night eh?

Sleep deprivation can be used as torture, it really mucks up your brain.

And you're the proof!

[silverhibee]

Boring.

[Pete]

This reminds me of a spoiled child at Christmas who, after opening all of his presents, takes a tantrum because he thinks he hasn't been given enough.

This isn't just boring. It's baseless, damaging crap that does absolutely nothing but destabilise.

It's not only the agenda it's the sly digs at our club at almost every opportunity. Time to put this attention seeking mouthpiece on ignore if this thread or poster is remaining here.

[McD]

Fat Sally doesnt like me - I told him to his face that the so called goal of his career - overhead kick against us at park head in cup final wasn't even the goal of the game .

That belonged to that big hertz donkey - Dave McPherson .

Here's what I know

Banks where running scared and Sir T hadn't guaranteed anything - they wanted football teams of the books at all costs - we probably paid around 20 % to write them off - maybe even 10% - maybe less.

I have no proof only common sense- I find it difficult that. Every one here is so against even considering the idea.


Hibs should be able to tell the fans - who in my opinion already should own the club anyway via season tickets ect .

What the exact bank debts where

How much was written off ? This is what they won't tell you

How they came to 5 million loan

If Sir T wrote off as much as the banks then the 5 million would be a fraction of that and we could spend that money investing in the team rather than servicing debt .

Interest free makes me upset - it's all spin.

Doesn't make them bad people what they're doing - they are protecting their own assets but by god they are not saints .


For the record hearts have hot it right Robbie nay brains may go but Levein won't - there has to be continuity when a manager leaves - we fall, apart and start from scratch every time .



Gordon stracham for director of footbball director and board member- the mangers will always come and go but the shape / mission / values should be consistent .


Shape - attacking football synonymous with our history

Mission Europe every year - 1 cup final every 3 years - never out of top 4

Integrity, strength & Honour and transparency

This is even boring me now .

If hibs would answer the questions I posed and get rid of the failure that is Rod then a lot of people May be tempted back.if they get the product on the park correct also.

As for things are going good - wt - 3rd in championship -, I would hate to be here when things are going wrong .


HH :hibees



For for the umpteenth time....

Hibs own accounts (published and easily available) show how much debt there was,and has been clearly spelled out for you on this thread, along with what debt we now owe. Regardless of to whom the debt is owed, it's still debt, and needs to be repaid. That we have no, I repeat NO interest accruing on that debt is an incredibly good deal. Business persons like you must surely be able to grasp all of that without reaching for the conspiracy theories. Also, why should STF write off debt - would you just let a significant sum of money due to you just be written off? It's his money after all. He owes none of us anything, certainly not a vast sum of money. He has actually lost money just through allowing the debt to attract no interest. What upsets you about interest free? Would you be happier if we were paying interest?

LD is doing a very good job, especially considering the mess she walked into. The changes she's implemented stretch far beyond the squad, throughout the whole club structure and ethos, all of which have been explained throughout this thread. That includes a strategy of continuity when a manager leaves, for whatever reason.

No, Hibs aren't beholden to explain every decision to you personally, some information will be sensitive to the club and/individuals and as such will be kept from the public domain. That's just something you'll have to live with, I'm sure a business person such as yourself can understand that.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Can we just stop feeding this troll? It is obvious he is one of the group that spouted this rubbish before and after evidence was shown as to what happened to all the debt. He is baiting and catching for the last two days. Let's just ignore it and it will go back under its bridge and put it's tinfoil hat back on. He's not even a very good troll, he's not even tried to make up evidence but it's okay cause he's 'got a feeling!' Audited accounts are lying!

[matty_f]

You're living in cloud-cukoo land if you think the bank took an (at best) c£5m rinsing to write off the debt.

As eager as they may have been to leave Scottish football, bear in mind that Hibs had no bad debt, no signs of an inability to repay, and had the backing of STF so we were of very little risk to the bank.

Certainly not a risk to the tune of £5m, the notion of that is absurd. Did you sense-check your theory at any point?

Just to add in to the sense checking of your argument. How much is STF worth? Realistically, how likely is it that he would try and cook the books at Hibs to get out an extra (at most) £2m quid?

Again, you've no facts, just supposition, which seems based in ridiculously far-fetched figure-plucking.

As for when Stubbs goes, Hibs have a very thorough football plan, and we will replace like-for-like as much as possible.

We have brought on board people like Graeme Mathie and George Craig specifically so that the club has continuity when managers leave.

None of your post is accurate. None of it.

[The Falcon]

Ok enough :flag:

Believe as you will,and let's hope Stubbs get us up -'buy shares if you like - nobody is committing a crime it's just not Transparent


There are a number of financial folk on this forum who look closely at the accounts of not only the football club but those of the holding company and Maidencraig, this way they were able to expose all the conspiracy theories surrounding the sale of the car park as utter tosh and prove that STF had actually taken a substantial financial hit in the process and not trousered millions at the expense of the football club as some had claimed. Yet some still do.

If you are saying that the information contained in the accounts is false then I may be correct in thinking that is a crime.

[Jack]

This reminds me of a spoiled child at Christmas who, after opening all of his presents, takes a tantrum because he thinks he hasn't been given enough.

This isn't just boring. It's baseless, damaging crap that does absolutely nothing but destabilise.

It's not only the agenda it's the sly digs at our club at almost every opportunity. Time to put this attention seeking mouthpiece on ignore if this thread or poster is remaining here.

To be fair Peter I don't think threads like this do destabilise, not this one anyway, maybe a year or so ago there may have been a bit of mileage in it for the OP.

Now this thread clearly demonstrates how far we have come, how the support has galvanised behind the new regime and together how we're closer together than we ever have in a long time moving forward.

[Hibbyradge]

The OP is clearly part of the Hands on Hibs and worse Mafia.He is clearly upset that he and his "associates" haven't been able get their claws on Hibs.Noone argues that Hibs had become a shambles,but anyone who thinks that STF is making any money out of this is clearly deluded and malicious for their own purposes.Leann



I thought that at first, and posted similar, but I now think that it's actually a Yam at the wind-up.

He makes these guys (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/) look credible.

[Hibbyradge]

Here's what I know

probably maybe maybe

I have no proof

May

That's not what you know, that's what you'd like to be the case.

You've made every single word of it up. :faf:

[FranckSuzy]

I have no proof

:bye:

[Aldo]

Fat Sally doesnt like me - I told him to his face that the so called goal of his career - overhead kick against us at park head in cup final wasn't even the goal of the game . That belonged to that big hertz donkey - Dave McPherson . Here's what I know Banks where running scared and Sir T hadn't guaranteed anything - they wanted football teams of the books at all costs - we probably paid around 20 % to write them off - maybe even 10% - maybe less. I have no proof only common sense- I find it difficult that. Every one here is so against even considering the idea. Hibs should be able to tell the fans - who in my opinion already should own the club anyway via season tickets ect . What the exact bank debts where How much was written off ? This is what they won't tell you How they came to 5 million loan If Sir T wrote off as much as the banks then the 5 million would be a fraction of that and we could spend that money investing in the team rather than servicing debt . Interest free makes me upset - it's all spin. Doesn't make them bad people what they're doing - they are protecting their own assets but by god they are not saints . For the record hearts have hot it right Robbie nay brains may go but Levein won't - there has to be continuity when a manager leaves - we fall, apart and start from scratch every time . Gordon stracham for director of footbball director and board member- the mangers will always come and go but the shape / mission / values should be consistent . Shape - attacking football synonymous with our history Mission Europe every year - 1 cup final every 3 years - never out of top 4 Integrity, strength & Honour and transparency This is even boring me now . If hibs would answer the questions I posed and get rid of the failure that is Rod then a lot of people May be tempted back.if they get the product on the park correct also. As for things are going good - wt - 3rd in championship -, I would hate to be here when things are going wrong . HH :hibees

Dear o dear! Read the responses and follow the link provided this covers our finances...... Is that not common sense!

You've no proof but common sense.

From your posts it's obvious that you've not read or listened to what the future holds for Hibs and the consistency we are now trying to achieve. We are all aware of our failings yet you list them like we don't know what has happened!.

So have you spoken or even written to the club/LD and put your questions about transparency and the wrong doings of RP and STF to them????? Doubt it because the transparency is already there.

As for the yams. I don't give a flying hoot what that bunch of cheating, robbing poppy thieves do and if you think they've got it right I suggest you toddle along to the PBS.

If you were a Hibs fan you would already know all this though! Wouldn't you??

[Rougier45]

You're living in cloud-cukoo land if you think the bank took an (at best) c£5m rinsing to write off the debt.

As eager as they may have been to leave Scottish football, bear in mind that Hibs had no bad debt, no signs of an inability to repay, and had the backing of STF so we were of very little risk to the bank.

Certainly not a risk to the tune of £5m, the notion of that is absurd. Did you sense-check your theory at any point?

Just to add in to the sense checking of your argument. How much is STF worth? Realistically, how likely is it that he would try and cook the books at Hibs to get out an extra (at most) £2m quid?

Again, you've no facts, just supposition, which seems based in ridiculously far-fetched figure-plucking.

As for when Stubbs goes, Hibs have a very thorough football plan, and we will replace like-for-like as much as possible.

We have brought on board people like Graeme Mathie and George Craig specifically so that the club has continuity when managers leave.

None of your post is accurate. None of it.


Matty this is the only thing that matters in this whole argument

Certainly not a risk to the tune of £5m, the notion of that is absurd. Did you sense-check your theory at any point?

This is not absurd and is common - as for the non bank debt--- where did that come from selling BROWN, Thomson et al --it wasn't accumulated in transfer fees or wages that's for sure .
bad mgmt. at best .

I'm not suggesting anyone cooked the books ---spin and lying are 2 very different things

Sit Ts agenda 25 years ago and today are very different now he wants out -he leaves behind a well placed club everywhere except where it matters on the park.

2 questions -what did the banks write off and a breakdown of all the debts and how they accumulated .

I have told everyone how it is IMO- no one wants to believe me and those that do are probably scared to admit it or have better things to do.

Ask Leeann these 2 questions -she doesn't know the answer

ask Rod he wont tell you .

WHY >>>:flag:

GGTTH

HH

[lucky]

I thought that at first, and posted similar, but I now think that it's actually a Yam at the wind-up.

He makes these guys (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/) look credible.

I agree undercover yam. Time to launch

[Brightside]

Fat Sally doesnt like me - I told him to his face that the so called goal of his career - overhead kick against us at park head in cup final wasn't even the goal of the game .

That belonged to that big hertz donkey - Dave McPherson .

Here's what I know

Banks where running scared and Sir T hadn't guaranteed anything - they wanted football teams of the books at all costs - we probably paid around 20 % to write them off - maybe even 10% - maybe less.

I have no proof only common sense- I find it difficult that. Every one here is so against even considering the idea.


Hibs should be able to tell the fans - who in my opinion already should own the club anyway via season tickets ect .

What the exact bank debts where

How much was written off ? This is what they won't tell you

How they came to 5 million loan

If Sir T wrote off as much as the banks then the 5 million would be a fraction of that and we could spend that money investing in the team rather than servicing debt .

Interest free makes me upset - it's all spin.

Doesn't make them bad people what they're doing - they are protecting their own assets but by god they are not saints .


For the record hearts have hot it right Robbie nay brains may go but Levein won't - there has to be continuity when a manager leaves - we fall, apart and start from scratch every time .



Gordon stracham for director of footbball director and board member- the mangers will always come and go but the shape / mission / values should be consistent .


Shape - attacking football synonymous with our history

Mission Europe every year - 1 cup final every 3 years - never out of top 4

Integrity, strength & Honour and transparency

This is even boring me now .

If hibs would answer the questions I posed and get rid of the failure that is Rod then a lot of people May be tempted back.if they get the product on the park correct also.

As for things are going good - wt - 3rd in championship -, I would hate to be here when things are going wrong .


HH :hibees

What utter guff.

[grunt]

2 questions -what did the banks write off and a breakdown of all the debts and how they accumulated.
I keep promising myself that I'll put you on ignore, but this is like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Let me try and address your two questions.

1. The amount of any bank write off, if indeed there was even a write off in the first place, is commercially sensitive information. Neither the Bank nor Hibs will want this information public, and there's no reason for it to be so. So you're not going to get this answer.

2. The breakdown of all debts and how they accumulated is a story told by the club's financial statements over the last few years. If you read them in sequence you will see how the debts have accumulated. And actually you are wrong, because in one sense it was the wages which contributed to the losses, which were funded by debt raised from Sir Tom. We made losses for a few years, and these losses were funded by money from Sir Tom. That's how the £3m debt to the holding company arose.

I think this is right. I expect I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I seem to recall the Hands on Hibs stock response to any suggestion they try reading the accounts was a Banderson-esque 'all very complex.'

Much easier just to make stuff up and present it as THE TRUTH, because using block capitals is the internet argument trump card, as we all know.

[Jim Herriot]

I'd just like to say that the earth is flat. The majority of people agree with me. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. FACT. END OF.

[matty_f]

Matty this is the only thing that matters in this whole argument

Certainly not a risk to the tune of £5m, the notion of that is absurd. Did you sense-check your theory at any point?

This is not absurd and is common - as for the non bank debt--- where did that come from selling BROWN, Thomson et al --it wasn't accumulated in transfer fees or wages that's for sure .
bad mgmt. at best .

I'm not suggesting anyone cooked the books ---spin and lying are 2 very different things

Sit Ts agenda 25 years ago and today are very different now he wants out -he leaves behind a well placed club everywhere except where it matters on the park.

2 questions -what did the banks write off and a breakdown of all the debts and how they accumulated .

I have told everyone how it is IMO- no one wants to believe me and those that do are probably scared to admit it or have better things to do.

Ask Leeann these 2 questions -she doesn't know the answer

ask Rod he wont tell you .

WHY >>>:flag:

GGTTH

HH

Where do you think the debt came from?

This from a post by Peevmor some time back on this very subject. All of which is easily verified:


The debt (which peaked at £18m IIRC) was mainly due to the building of 3 new stands, the loss making season in the 1st division and player contracts which were signed prior to the collapse of the Sky TV deal.

However Hibs always had the saleable asset of the former car park and were the first SPL club (by 2-3 years) to review their wage budget in accordance with reduced TV revenue. Other clubs (notably Livi, Motherwell, Dundee, Dunfermline, the yams and the huns it would now appear) continued to chase the dream and ended up in the keech.

Hibs financial conduct was more or less irreproachable, though thankfully we had STF to lean on and not just the banks.

Sales of Brown etc helped clear that, complete the stadium, and build the training centre.

It really isn't a lack of transparency that's the issue here, it's a chronic lack of understanding.

[Jack]

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Bostonhibby]

I always wondered what happened to Sidney.

[matty_f]

Also


From memory, Edinburgh Hibernian (the company we had became part of after the shares flotation) was around £5M in debt in 1990 thanks to Duff and co. Farmer bought the football club as a separate entity from Edinburgh Hibernian, so we didn't inherit any of the debts that Edinburgh Hibernian had built up. So, therefore, none of the debt we had thereafter was anything to do with Duff and co.

As for the debt (at its worst £14.5M), most of that was down to us having built three stands at a cost of around £14M. Most of that debt was in the form of mortgages and long and short term loans. We lost money when we were relegated, and also overspent by a few million under McLeish, but recouped a lot of that by selling Miller, De La Cruz, Laursen etc. The debt we built up had little to do with overspending on players.

Unlike some SPL clubs, we have lived within our means, and in a way we have paid the price - should a team like Motherwell be enjoying such a good spell after getting off with paying millions in debt, while we struggle having continually sold our best players? Did Livingston deserve to beat us in the League Cup when they had overspent so much to get there? Hopefully in the end things will even themselves out and we'll be back in the top four next season.

The Scottish Cup would be a nice reward for our recent suffering!

And



The company was called Forth Investments, which the FC was part of. Briefly the problem post Duff and Gray was the shareholding of one David Rowland who did not see eye to eye to STF regarding the value his substantial shareholding, and his expect renumeration for handing them over.

Two of the three stand mentioned were built by the holding company and sold back to the club, along with the stadium, at a fraction of the build cost. Costs of the build of the end stands were met by HFC Holdings.

Overall while Hibs have overspent they have also paid all their bills and met all their obligations. Painfully so at times for us supporters, and that is what differentiates us from the current situation at other clubs, who are in admin or cant pay their players.

[Keith_M]

I always wondered what happened to Sidney.



:greengrin


You know, you could be right.

[matty_f]

And a little bit of context given to our position from 04/05 in this independent report, which points to another write-off of debt from the holding company.
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/econ/faculty/Vrooman/Scottish-Premier-League-Annual-Report.pdf

[Hibbyradge]

I'd just like to say that the earth is flat. The majority of people agree with me. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. FACT. END OF.

See post 287. :wink:

[matty_f]

Wee bit more detail from PWC here:

http://pwc.blogs.com/files/22nd-afr-spr11.pdf


Hessen, do you have anything more than a gut feeling or 'probably' yet?

[Hibbyradge]

I wonder why this quote comes to mind...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f7/a7/6e/f7a76e67a079381334715e3e481886f5.jpg

[The Green Goblin]

"Forget LEEANN she can't get a game"- whit?

[Aldo]

Wee bit more detail from PWC here: http://pwc.blogs.com/files/22nd-afr-spr11.pdf Hessen, do you have anything more than a gut feeling or 'probably' yet?

Matty he does..... You cannot forget his Common Sense. :-)

[matty_f]

Wee bit more here as well:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Petrie

[matty_f]

There's also this part:



The Hibernian offer will make available up to £2.5 million in new shares and will dilute the holding company's shares to less than 50% of the enlarged share capital of the club.

The deal looks like a good one for fan investors as the clubs owns its Easter Road Stadium and its training centre. The properties are valued at £25 million. The Board said that a "fundamental" part of its strategy is for the club to own these assets.

All cash raised from the issue of new shares will stay within the club.

Hibs were carrying a bank debt with the Royal Bank of Scotland which has been released via a payment to the bank and a new loan issued to the club by the holding company.

Half of the £4.5 million debt will be turned into new shares while the remaining loans will be restructured as part of a new £5 million mortgage made available to the club by the holding company.

The financial restructuring and the opening up of ownership is a bold move by the club to unite all interests.

Club Chairman Rod Petrie said: "The environment of Scottish football is changing including a working group set up by the Scottish Government to look at supporter involvement with football clubs. After extensive consultations with supporters we have decided on the Hibernian Way, the right way forward for Hibernian Football Club."


From here: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/16105-scotland-s-hibs-open-up-club-ownership-to-fans-with-share-offer-for-51

[SunshineOnLeith]

There's also this part:



From here: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/16105-scotland-s-hibs-open-up-club-ownership-to-fans-with-share-offer-for-51

That can't be right, Bradley Welsh and Jim Slaven assured me that Hibs don't own the training centre, and they know best.

15537

It was on a flier, it must be true.

[IanM]

Matty this is the only thing that matters in this whole argument




So why is the thread titled Leeann?

You sir, are at the wind up

[WeeRussell]

So we're all in agreement then?

Dempster oot. :greengrin

[The Falcon]

That can't be right, Bradley Welsh and Jim Slaven assured me that Hibs don't own the training centre, and they know best.

15537

It was on a flier, it must be true.

Thats the very one that I was thinking off. :thumbsup:

[Just Alf]

I am most irritated about this thread..... the fact that no one thought to PM or facebook me to let me know we had a new thread for the Space Cadets doesn't half vex me! :bitchy:


anyways.... back to reality

:flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Eric]

Sorry but I don't see the problem posters are having with Hessenhibee's posts.

He has achieved the best results in years to unite Hibs fans.:thumbsup:

[McD]

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Absolutely love this this quote Jack :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

Absolutely love this this quote Jack :greengrin

Its by Mark Twain ... I've used it myself in the past to beat someone down. The guy was a genius, if you need a cutting rapier like comment to fit any scenario he is the go to guy :aok:

[Mr White]

Its by Mark Twain ... I've used it myself in the past to beat someone down. The guy was a genius, if you need a cutting rapier like comment to fit any scenario he is the go to guy :aok:

The more I learn about people the more I like my dog.

So true :greengrin

[Eyrie]

OK, I'm convinced.

Farmer and Petrie out, Hessenyam in!

[Stuarty27]

Is this the guy who said he would put in a million quid and spat the dummy when folk said he was at it on here??

[PatHead]

Don't think so.......more like a Hands on Hibs propaganda storyline.

Happy to be corrected by OP if I am wrong though.

[Benny Brazil]

Is this the guy who said he would put in a million quid and spat the dummy when folk said he was at it on here??

Dont think so - was that not Global Hibby?

[Bostonhibby]

Don't think so.......more like a Hands on Hibs propaganda storyline.

Happy to be corrected by OP if I am wrong though.


Dont think so - was that not Global Hibby?
Get Sidney to write them all a letter. I am sure he would be able to clear up all this ambiguity.

[The Green Goblin]

Is this the guy who said he would put in a million quid and spat the dummy when folk said he was at it on here??

That was Global Hibby, also known as "Richard". One tiny wee correction though, if I may... he spat the dummy out almost from the off when people did nothing more than ask reasonable questions of him and what he was suggesting/offering as a possible scenario, all done in a very straightforward and open way. He then secretly set up a pal on here to back him up. Bottom line, the ego crumbled when the natives on here didn't simply kiss his feet and accept him and hail him as the new prophet of something wondrous that he clearly felt he was, which of course merely confirmed that he was a rocket whose slightly secretive but grandiose (honest) plans didn't even stand up to passing scrutiny from folks on here. At least that's my recollection of it. :greengrin

[Haymaker]

What's going on? :hyper

[FranckSuzy]

What's going on? :hyper

You tell us as I wish I knew! :tee hee:

[GreenOnions]

How about a sub-forum for "all things related to Hessenhibee"? The term "flat-earther" has never been more appropriate :rolleyes:

[Rougier45]

How about a sub-forum for "all things related to Hessenhibee"? The term "flat-earther" has never been more appropriate :rolleyes:

Everybody thought the earth was flat. Until one day someone said it wasn't , how they laughed. Ridiculed and bullied and then then they all realised it was shaped like a football - The End :cb

[matty_f]

Everybody thought the earth was flat. Until one day someone said it wasn't , how they laughed. Ridiculed and bullied and then then they all realised it was shaped like a football - The End :cb
Just for the avoidance of doubt, there's a bit of piss-taking on this thread but nothing i would say was bullying, if you feel there is then report it.

Also, people pointing out the massive holes in your argument (which is still, as far as i can see, wholly without evidence) is not bullying. When lots of people do it, it's still not bullying - it's lots of people disagreeing with you.

When you post claims without being able to, or being unwilling to, back them up, then lots of people will disagree with you.

[Benny Brazil]

Everybody thought the earth was flat. Until one day someone said it wasn't , how they laughed. Ridiculed and bullied and then then they all realised it was shaped like a football - The End :cb

Do you have any evidence to back that up? :greengrin

[tamig]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, there's a bit of piss-taking on this thread but nothing i would say was bullying, if you feel there is then report it.

Also, people pointing out the massive holes in your argument (which is still, as far as i can see, wholly without evidence) is not bullying. When lots of people do it, it's still not bullying - it's lots of people disagreeing with you.

When you post claims without being able to, or being unwilling to, back them up, then lots of people will disagree with you.
There's been a few threads closed in recent times for what I'd consider a fair bit less than some of the stuff on here. The thread title alone is a complete misnomer. It's turned out to be yet another unsubstantiated attack on the current owner. These claims do nothing to help the club progress.

[matty_f]

Everybody thought the earth was flat. Until one day someone said it wasn't , how they laughed. Ridiculed and bullied and then then they all realised it was shaped like a football - The End :cb

Also, the folk that laughed stopped laughing when they saw the compelling and indisputable evidence. A pretty easy win in the end for the round earthers.

[matty_f]

There's been a few threads closed in recent times for what I'd consider a fair bit less than some of the stuff on here. The thread title alone is a complete misnomer. It's turned out to be yet another unsubstantiated attack on the current owner. These claims do nothing to help the club progress.

You know what? I agree with you, but i would hate for hibs.net to be accused of censorship or telling lies (fibs.net, i think is the phrase) so rather than closing the thread let's keep it open.

Both sides have had plenty opportunity to back up their points, then people can reasonably decide what they believe based on the facts before them.

[Beefster]

Everybody thought the earth was flat.

Something else that you didn't do your research on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

[Kaiser1962]

Also, the folk that laughed stopped laughing when they saw the compelling and indisputable evidence. A pretty easy win in the end for the round earthers.

But there are still those, despite incontestable evidence to the contrary, still maintain the earth is flat.

[Bostonhibby]

But there are still those, despite incontestable evidence to the contrary, still maintain the earth is flat.
Aw crap.I have been looking for the edge for years. Lincolnshire is dead flat and that's why I moved here.

[Bad Martini]

In attempt to do my bit of caring in the community, I started reading some of the insightful nuggets of wisdom on the early pages of this thread...

I considered that in the parallel universe most of us inhabit (aka the real world) uber rich old men (75+ years) and with over a pound or two in the bank (over £136 MILLION three years ago) dont go around attempting to "fleece" a million or two from a fitba team, particularly when said rich old men (who must seriously be getting pissed off with this ungratefulness and bull**** allegations) have given away more cash than they are alleged to be in some way "fleecing".

Things got really mental. Thankfully the chat was brought back to reality when we talked about the flat earth, a well known fact that if you walk past porty and keep walking, you will actually, in reality, just drop off the world (in Wile E.Coyote fashion) and go hurling into nothingness forever more....

FACT :greengrin

Well youse ****ing started it :aok::greengrin

[PatHead]

Does anyone know if this is Hands on Hibs rearing their heads again?

Thought they had given up in view of the changes that have been made. Is it purely Rod being there that is their gripe now?

[SunshineOnLeith]

Does anyone know if this is Hands on Hibs rearing their heads again?

Thought they had given up in view of the changes that have been made. Is it purely Rod being there that is their gripe now?

I'm sure once they come up with another snappy phrase like "shake down" or "Ponzi scheme" to throw around without knowing what it means they'll be back. Attention seeking morons have a tendency to moronically seek attention.

[CentreLine]

Does anyone know if this is Hands on Hibs rearing their heads again?

Thought they had given up in view of the changes that have been made. Is it purely Rod being there that is their gripe now?

Now stop fishing. You know very well that they'll find another excuse to hate the club whenever Rod leaves. The club needs people behind it and supporting it. All these threats or imaginary trade offs of You do is and I'll do that. Or if you don't do this I'll not do that, are just pathetic excuses for not supporting the club.

I would love to see this small but noisy group supporting the club but it is rapidly getting to the stage where it might be best if they found something more productive to do with their time and left the hard core majority to work with the club and be supporters.

[Hibbyradge]

Something else that you didn't do your research on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

Nice.

[hibees 7062]

Now stop fishing. You know very well that they'll find another excuse to hate the club whenever Rod leaves. The club needs people behind it and supporting it. All these threats or imaginary trade offs of You do is and I'll do that. Or if you don't do this I'll not do that, are just pathetic excuses for not supporting the club.

I would love to see this small but noisy group supporting the club but it is rapidly getting to the stage where it might be best if they found something more productive to do with their time and left the hard core majority to work with the club and be supporters.

Really ?

[portycabbage]

In attempt to do my bit of caring in the community, I started reading some of the insightful nuggets of wisdom on the early pages of this thread...

I considered that in the parallel universe most of us inhabit (aka the real world) uber rich old men (75+ years) and with over a pound or two in the bank (over £136 MILLION three years ago) dont go around attempting to "fleece" a million or two from a fitba team, particularly when said rich old men (who must seriously be getting pissed off with this ungratefulness and bull**** allegations) have given away more cash than they are alleged to be in some way "fleecing".

Things got really mental. Thankfully the chat was brought back to reality when we talked about the flat earth, a well known fact that if you walk past porty and keep walking, you will actually, in reality, just drop off the world (in Wile E.Coyote fashion) and go hurling into nothingness forever more....

FACT :greengrin

Well youse ****ing started it :aok::greengrin

I've been to Joppa, it's not that bad. Not many shops though.

[Just Alf]

Really ?

I know he's being funny but to be fair some of the peeps in question seem to have a permanent downer on everything Hibs does or tries to do...... Why is that? (That's an open question, not specifically at you BTW)

[matty_f]

I got a message to point out that the OP is not connected to BuyHibs or Russian Hibs, so I'm happy to clear that up.

[PatHead]

I got a message to point out that the OP is not connected to BuyHibs or Russian Hibs, so I'm happy to clear that up.

Is he connected to Hands on Hibs?

[Bad Martini]

I've been to Joppa, it's not that bad. Not many shops though.

:greengrin

You are clearly of your face on that highly aceeeeedic water from the Forth, lapping on the rocks of Porty. The fact is, the world ends beyond Porty...from whenst you can see the horizon and thereafter, its just nothingness.

The place you mention I do not recognise.

Indeed, the Peoples Republic of Leith does not recognise HMQE2 or this miradgeo haven of shops by the seaside known as Joppa.

However, if it did exist, it's most endearing feature would be a bus terminus with a lookout viewpoint that allows one to cast your eye back over the sun setting on Leith.

:greengrin

[matty_f]

Is he connected to Hands on Hibs?

No idea, maybe he could tell us though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Sorry for asking but despite me not being a dafty I'm a bit lost. I got told the other day that the total debt was £5m ish (as per the accounts) and after STF wiped it we're now due him £5m (interest free over 10y).

Is that correct/incorrect? Was the total debt higher than £5m ish prior to the bank being paid off?

[matty_f]

Sorry for asking but despite me not being a dafty I'm a bit lost. I got told the other day that the total debt was £5m ish (as per the accounts) and after STF wiped it we're now due him £5m (interest free over 10y).

Is that correct/incorrect? Was the total debt higher than £5m ish prior to the bank being paid off?

It was closer to £10m mate, £3m-ish to the holding company, the rest to the bank.

[Danderhall Hibs]

It was closer to £10m mate, £3m-ish to the holding company, the rest to the bank.

Cheers - I couldn't remember the amount but was told it was £5m ish as per the accounts.

[matty_f]

Cheers - I couldn't remember the amount but was told it was £5m ish as per the accounts.

There's a post (one of mine) earlier in the thread with more detail.

[Rougier45]

No idea, maybe he could tell us though.

I'm not connected to any activist groups - just saying things how I see them - seems everyone else disagrees - so I will sign of on this debate - best HH

[Forza Fred]

But there are still those, despite incontestable evidence to the contrary, still maintain the earth is flat.

Course it is.

Common sensè would tell you that if it was ball shaped some people would fall off.

[Just Alf]

I'm not connected to any activist groups - just saying things how I see them - seems everyone else disagrees - so I will sign of on this debate - best HH

But WHY do you see them that way?.... Being serious for a moment, something must make you think it, what is it? evidence shown so far seems to point the other way in general terms but from past experience if you could put forward an argument supported by info/facts then for many on here you'd be pushing on an open door.

[The Green Goblin]

I'm not connected to any activist groups - just saying things how I see them - seems everyone else disagrees - so I will sign of on this debate - best HH

It's not just about the disagreement though, is it? You haven't offered any ideas or solutions, as you see them, as alternatives to how things are now. It's just blind, angry criticism and unsubstantiated accusations with nothing constructive to help things forward (imo). Personally, I just can't understand how anyone could possibly think that LD, who you made the thread topic about and dismissed as irrelevant during the thread, doesn't care about Hibs or hasn't made a very positive difference to the club since she arrived. No offence, but you just seem to be paralysed by bitterness. I can totally understand where that comes from, given the last 7 or 8 years, but that won't help us get back to where we want to be.

[Rougier45]

It's not just about the disagreement though, is it? You haven't offered any ideas or solutions, as you see them, as alternatives to how things are now. It's just blind, angry criticism and unsubstantiated accusations with nothing constructive to help things forward (imo). Personally, I just can't understand how anyone could possibly think that LD, who you made the thread topic about and dismissed as irrelevant during the thread, doesn't care about Hibs or hasn't made a very positive difference to the club since she arrived. No offence, but you just seem to be paralysed by bitterness. I can totally understand where that comes from, given the last 7 or 8 years, but that won't help us get back to where we want to be.

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann
D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH

[Kavinho]

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann
D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH



Just all sounds a bit like a broken record now to me

[Bostonhibby]

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann
D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH

I just don't get the Ann Budge love in here myself.

She is so fond of them that they cant get their hands on their club until she recovers every penny of her money back plus a higher than average rate of interest is being charged so she makes money on the deal like any other of her business deals. STF on the other hand has not done the same and in fact is allowing share cash to go directly to the football club.

[Aldo]

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH

If STF doesn't or even didn't like the club why the hell has he stuck about so long and put his own cash into the Club.

regardless of how much or how little you think STF has put into the club the man saved us from oblivion and if you don't get that then it's beyond me. You seem to have a bit of a love in from Ann Budge and what she is doing???? But remember this.... She is getting paid back. Will STF get back what he's put in.... Doubt it!

As for results football is a fickle sport but I really do think you need to get out your bubble more

[Pretty Boy]

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann
D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH

So STF wants out and should sell?

I'm guessing given his desire to 'get out' he's not exactly inundated with offers for the club considering he is yet to sell. For all the shouting, bluster and accusations at STF I've yet to read of one credible bid to buy the club from him. There's plenty suggestion he should 'give the club away'. Why? Because he happens to be wealty?

Indeed STF has offered over 50% of the club for sale to whoever wants it. You have acknowledged throughout this thread that take up of that offer has been poor. It seems though that some have a real desire for change until it comes to putting their hand in their own pocket yet they expect STF to dip his hand into his, which he had done several times over the years.

I'll criticise Hibs and Tom Farmer when it's right and there is no bigger critic of Rod Petrie than me but some of the stuff levelled at STF is a disgrace and completely unfair. If I had been in his shoes and had to listen to some of the vitriol and slander aimed at him over the last year I would have told Hibs fans were to shove their club. Instead the man paid off a chunk of our bank debt, allowed us to pay back that debt interest free at a fixed rate over a 10 year period and offered us half the club if we wanted it.

[Bostonhibby]

If STF doesn't or even didn't like the club why the hell has he stuck about so long and put his own cash into the Club.

regardless of how much or how little you think STF has put into the club the man saved us from oblivion and if you don't get that then it's beyond me. You seem to have a bit of a love in from Ann Budge and what she is doing???? But remember this.... She is getting paid back. Will STF get back what he's put in.... Doubt it!

As for results football is a fickle sport but I really do think you need to get out your bubble more

:agree: An interesting contrast Aldo, on the one hand we have STF who when he first put money into the club to save it did so unconditionally and with no demand to recover every penny set in stone at the beginning, he does not profess to be a die hard fan whereas the much loved budge does - decades later STF is still involved personally and financially at Hibs.

The beloved budge over the same sort of time seems to have gone to support her team like everyone else if the story is to be believed but only used her wealth to save them at the very death, much the same as STF - except she gave the smaller amount of cash conditionally, is charging them interest on it and will be exiting the transaction far earlier that STF will and with a guaranteed rate of return.

[Blaster]

So STF wants out and should sell?

I'm guessing given his desire to 'get out' he's not exactly inundated with offers for the club considering he is yet to sell. For all the shouting, bluster and accusations at STF I've yet to read of one credible bid to buy the club from him. There's plenty suggestion he should 'give the club away'. Why? Because he happens to be wealty?

Indeed STF has offered over 50% of the club for sale to whoever wants it. You have acknowledged throughout this thread that take up of that offer has been poor. It seems though that some have a real desire for change until it comes to putting their hand in their own pocket yet they expect STF to dip his hand into his, which he had done several times over the years.

I'll criticise Hibs and Tom Farmer when it's right and there is no bigger critic of Rod Petrie than me but some of the stuff levelled at STF is a disgrace and completely unfair. If I had been in his shoes and had to listen to some of the vitriol and slander aimed at him over the last year I would have told Hibs fans were to shove their club. Instead the man paid off a chunk of our bank debt, allowed us to pay back that debt interest free at a fixed rate over a 10 year period and offered us half the club if we wanted it.

Well said!!

[Bostonhibby]

I'm pretty sure there's an Ann budge love in thread on kickback for anyone who wants to big up her deal with the yam savers and interest payers.

[Rougier45]

If STF doesn't or even didn't like the club why the hell has he stuck about so long and put his own cash into the Club.

regardless of how much or how little you think STF has put into the club the man saved us from oblivion and if you don't get that then it's beyond me. You seem to have a bit of a love in from Ann Budge and what she is doing???? But remember this.... She is getting paid back. Will STF get back what he's put in.... Doubt it!

[B][B]As for results football is a fickle sport but I really do think you need to get out your bubble more[/B


Everything gets nit picked and thrown back -I don't like budge but she has put together a better mgmt. /structure in 5 minutes than Rod has put in place in how many years of trying -as for you last comment really ??? I think your in the bubble there is nothing fickle about our position

you are, what you do -the power of habit

so to end up where we are -there must have been a lot of bad habits that's are still there

[Kavinho]

[/B


Everything gets nit picked and thrown back -I don't like budge but she has put together a better mgmt. /structure in 5 minutes than Rod has put in place in how many years of trying -as for you last comment really ??? I think your in the bubble there is nothing fickle about our position

you are, what you do -the power of habit

so to end up where we are -there must have been a lot of bad habits that's are still there

She's also taking 6.5% interest on her loan. Something Sir T has refused to do

[Rougier45]

She's also taking 6.5% interest on her loan. Something Sir T has refused to do

If you believe in Altrusim great -Sir T is a lot of things but a mug he is not .

[Eyrie]

If you believe in Altrusim great -Sir T is a lot of things but a mug he is not .

So explain to us what exactly Farmer has taken out of Hibs over the years? Actual facts with evidence rather than speculation please.

[green day]

I don't like budge but she has put together a better mgmt. /structure in 5 minutes than Rod has put in place in how many years of trying

Oh no, you don't get off with that one matey.

Most on here would accept that point, but your OP was about the love in with Leeann.

So will you agree that Leeann has ALSO put in place a better mgt/structure in "5 minutes" - kind of like your pal Budge has done?

[Aldo]

[/B Everything gets nit picked and thrown back -I don't like budge but she has put together a better mgmt. /structure in 5 minutes than Rod has put in place in how many years of trying -as for you last comment really ??? I think your in the bubble there is nothing fickle about our position you are, what you do -the power of habit so to end up where we are -there must have been a lot of bad habits that's are still there

For someone that doesn't like her you seem hell bent on wanting us to follow her management still and install her ideas at our club.

As for my bubble.... I'm in it with probably loads on here.... Will watch the club through thick and thin and get let down more often than not. Not saying it's right but that's just how it is. As for LD. More than happy with her and what she's trying to achieve and I'd have her any day than what's over the road!

Bad habits still there! What are they??

[marinello59]

Give me a break - there is no bitterness - just sadness that in such poor times on Scottish football - no Rangers - hertz skint - Celtic struggling - there is a real opportunity to be at the forefront but as usual we are struggling - not even in top 2 in championship - Leeann
D I have no personal gripe - I just don't get the love in - she does a job and gets well paid -- in touting the club she refers to owning a football team as a " trophy asset" which says to me she has no idea- owning Hibs is a labour of love and that's what hearts have via ann budge - Ask Thomson or dick donald - our owner saved us -is very rich but he doesn't love Hibs and wants out - rod Petrie should be sacked - sir T should sell and if no one is suitable at least find someone with a vision not a beancounter to run the club - I don't know who that person is but as soon as rod turned his back on JC he was a busted flush - how can a club which had the 4 th largest support , 3rd best facilities and pays players as good as anyone outside the old firm consistently be so poor - it's not the managers who have been at fault the problems at ER run far deeper thAn that and something has to be done - the fact that people think things are improving worries me - where is the proof - certainly not I. The crowds or league position. - now I understand no one agrees with me - but would anyone be that surprised if today was 0-0 and we get beat at Falkirk - hopefully not but it wouldn't be a surprise and that sums us up - HH

Facts please. Dismissing anybody who didagress with you as indulging in a love in whilst repeating the same unsubstantiated claims over and over again does not advance your case. It DOES make you look bitter.
It's a pity you are willing to give Budge the benefit of the doubt though and not the head of your own club.
So once again.... Some facts please to back up your claims about STF. If you can't provide them you are either making them up or blindly following someone else's deluded agenda.

[lucky]

I'm pretty sure there's an Ann budge love in thread on kickback for anyone who wants to big up her deal with the yam savers and interest payers.

A few jambos I know state that she is taking them for a ride. She's living the dream with their cash. Her money plus interest is guaranteed. ST has put more in and is getting less out.

[Bostonhibby]

A few jambos I know state that she is taking them for a ride. She's living the dream with their cash. Her money plus interest is guaranteed. ST has put more in and is getting less out.

But there are some who think the budge way is the way to go!

The interest they are paying her alone could buy quite a few shares. As you say another one living the dream at zero expense, in fact there's a profit in it at the end.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Hessenhibee should write a book: "Attention Seeking on the Internet for Dummies"

This thread has had all the greatest hits:

- Presenting made up nonsense as 'FACT'
- "Most Hibs fans agree with me"
- Calling anyone who doesn't accept his nonsense as FACT as "halfwits"
- Repeating arguments IN BLOCK CAPITALS because that makes them better
- Saying "I'm finished now there is no reasoning on this thread"....still carrying on ten pages and seven days later.

[Rougier45]

[QUOTE=SunshineOnLeith;4483491]Hessenhibee should write a book: "Attention Seeking on the Internet for Dummies"

This thread has had all the greatest hits:

- Presenting made up nonsense as 'FACT'
- "Most Hibs fans agree with me"
- Calling anyone who doesn't accept his nonsense as FACT as "halfwits"
- Repeating arguments IN BLOCK CAPITALS because that makes them better
- Saying "I'm finished now there is no reasoning on this thread"....still carrying on ten pages and seven days later


Hibs league position in Scotland
Crowds
Rod in a job
Hibs being touted for sale as a trophy asset !
No disclosure of monies written of by bank
Debt ran up to silly levels when we where selling players for millions with zero reinvestment in team
2 years minimum in lower leagues

If the owner / chairman isn't responsible who is?

[Kavinho]

If you believe in Altrusim great -Sir T is a lot of things but a mug he is not .

In very basic terms..

If its assumed for just a second he had arranged the same terms as the Budgie on the remaining 5m debt..., then hed pocket 325k. In a year. Which he's not, and won't over the 10 years that the debt is to be paid off.

How is that not beneficial to hibs, and why can't you appreciate that?

Over the 10 years, thats the equivalent of a £2.5-3m gift to the club,

No?


Happy for you to argue the other side of this particular point....

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=SunshineOnLeith;4483491]Hessenhibee should write a book: "Attention Seeking on the Internet for Dummies"

This thread has had all the greatest hits:

- Presenting made up nonsense as 'FACT'
- "Most Hibs fans agree with me"
- Calling anyone who doesn't accept his nonsense as FACT as "halfwits"
- Repeating arguments IN BLOCK CAPITALS because that makes them better
- Saying "I'm finished now there is no reasoning on this thread"....still carrying on ten pages and seven days later


Hibs league position in Scotland
Crowds
Rod in a job
Hibs being touted for sale as a trophy asset !
No disclosure of monies written of by bank
Debt ran up to silly levels when we where selling players for millions with zero reinvestment in team
2 years minimum in lower leagues

If the owner / chairman isn't responsible who is?
As far as the bank arrangements are concerned, you'll find all you need to know in the 2015 accounts when they come out.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[McD]

[QUOTE=SunshineOnLeith;4483491]Hessenhibee should write a book: "Attention Seeking on the Internet for Dummies"

This thread has had all the greatest hits:

- Presenting made up nonsense as 'FACT'
- "Most Hibs fans agree with me"
- Calling anyone who doesn't accept his nonsense as FACT as "halfwits"
- Repeating arguments IN BLOCK CAPITALS because that makes them better
- Saying "I'm finished now there is no reasoning on this thread"....still carrying on ten pages and seven days later


Hibs league position in Scotland
Crowds
Rod in a job
Hibs being touted for sale as a trophy asset !
No disclosure of monies written of by bank
Debt ran up to silly levels when we where selling players for millions with zero reinvestment in team
2 years minimum in lower leagues

If the owner / chairman isn't responsible who is?


I think you'll find, with ease, that Hibs' debt came down during the period you are accusing of zero investment (which is also a load of tosh). Not to mention, a training ground being built (would you rather Hibs were still allowing playing assets to train on public parks?), and the stadium upgrade completed.

youve been bigging up the Ann budge policies - lets list them here:

- hearts ran at a loss last year - you've just criticised debt being run up
- stadium in extreme need of upgrade - what's the score with ER again?
- Ann budge will make back every penny she put into hearts plus high interest - STF has put more money into Hibs than she has hearts, has cleared all bank debt and allowing the club to pay that back at zero interest
- hearts fans will only take ownership when budge has had back every penny plus interest - Hibs fans will own our club when we have purchased the shares to do so. These are entirely new shares, and as such STF will not get a single penny of the money used to purchase the new shares, all money to the club


in a post previous to the one I'm replying to, you have also changed your tune re. STF. You originally implied him of pulling some kind of scam with the bank, and also that he was getting something out of that, and, imo, besmirching the man's name. Now you've turned that into STF being ok, but it's all big bad RP's fault.

Whether you or I like it, Petrie is still a part of Hibs. But it's obvious to everyone else that LD is running the club, has restructured in a way to put the club on a better footing strategy wise than it has been for some time, has clearly supported the manager in developing the squad, has demonstrated we won't be treated as a soft touch, is listening to the fans and acting on that in numerous ways.

All of which are actual FACTS, as opposed to the innuendo, tantrum throwing, lies and nonsense you've been presenting as facts.

[Rougier45]

[QUOTE=Hessenhibee;4483668]


I think you'll find, with ease, that Hibs' debt came down during the period you are accusing of zero investment (which is also a load of tosh). Not to mention, a training ground being built (would you rather Hibs were still allowing playing assets to train on public parks?), and the stadium upgrade completed.

youve been bigging up the Ann budge policies - lets list them here:

- hearts ran at a loss last year - you've just criticised debt being run up
- stadium in extreme need of upgrade - what's the score with ER again?
- Ann budge will make back every penny she put into hearts plus high interest - STF has put more money into Hibs than she has hearts, has cleared all bank debt and allowing the club to pay that back at zero interest
- hearts fans will only take ownership when budge has had back every penny plus interest - Hibs fans will own our club when we have purchased the shares to do so. These are entirely new shares, and as such STF will not get a single penny of the money used to purchase the new shares, all money to the club


in a post previous to the one I'm replying to, you have also changed your tune re. STF. You originally implied him of pulling some kind of scam with the bank, and also that he was getting something out of that, and, imo, besmirching the man's name. Now you've turned that into STF being ok, but it's all big bad RP's fault.

Whether you or I like it, Petrie is still a part of Hibs. But it's obvious to everyone else that LD is running the club, has restructured in a way to put the club on a better footing strategy wise than it has been for some time, has clearly supported the manager in developing the squad, has demonstrated we won't be treated as a soft touch, is listening to the fans and acting on that in numerous ways.

All of which are actual FACTS, as opposed to the innuendo, tantrum throwing, lies and nonsense you've been presenting as facts.


What lies ?

[McD]

[QUOTE=McD;4483694]


What lies ?


Hahaha out of my whole post, that's what you choose to reply to?


ok, to answer your question, I'd say that stating, on a number of occasions, allusions to STF being involved in either some kind of dodgy deal with the bank or conning Hibs fans with what we've been told about the bank/debt situation, all of which with absolutely no proof, I'd say that's lying.

Care to respond to anything else I've said or indeed anyone else's posts?

[SunshineOnLeith]

[QUOTE=McD;4483694]


What lies ?

How about this one?


BIG ROD IS IN CHARGE AND VERY LITTLE HAS CHANGED

I know that posting in block capitals is the ultimate show of intellectual superiority in an internet debate, but it doesn't make false statements true.

[Tyler Durden]

I've no interest in backing Hessenhibee and he certainly talks a lot of nonsense about Leeann Dempster.

But....I think a number of people, including myself, would agree that the loans due to the holding co were the result of mismanagement over the past 7-8 years. I think it's difficult to dispute that Sir Tom Farmer is ultimately accountable, due to his faith in Petrie.

I also think Hibs have been slightly disingenuous in how they've communicated the bank deal. Albeit this type of commercial arrangement was never going to be explained to the pound and pence.

Despite that I also think Farmer had no need to effectively gift Hibs the share income. And God knows he will be worse off from his 25 year involvement in Hibs and we should be hugely greatful for his input in aggregate.

There's plenty of incorrect assumptions and misinformation on this thread though and Hessen isn't the only culprit.

[Eyrie]

Hahaha out of my whole post, that's what you choose to reply to?


ok, to answer your question, I'd say that stating, on a number of occasions, allusions to STF being involved in either some kind of dodgy deal with the bank or conning Hibs fans with what we've been told about the bank/debt situation, all of which with absolutely no proof, I'd say that's lying.

Care to respond to anything else I've said or indeed anyone else's posts?
Hessenyam has ignored several requests to do just that, which is sufficient explanation of his agenda for me.

[3pm]

I haven't read the thread nor do I have the inclination to do so.

However, she is the best thing that has happened to Hibs in years. I hope we keep hold of her.

[jabis]

Is the love in with Leann still in full flow ?

Whist I get that we have to keep prices at SPL level if we are to compete - 7 years in decline is taking its toll - fans have other thingsvto do on a Saturday - things are improving but another year at this level could kill us .

Leann apart from being a Glaswegian And a Rangers fan is doing an OK job but anyone who thinks that she is not taking orders from Rod is deluded .
The shares sale,was a disaster so what next .
I can't believe there has never been a bigger protest to force rod out

As for the fans on the board nonsense it's all a wash over to keep the hardcore deluded - never trust anyone by their words only their actions and until Rod goes I and lots of others will not return regularly as for buying shares I still have the old ones - that was worth it .

FACT

Blooming autospell

[Mr White]

I've held off posting on this thread hoping it would slip off and disappear. As that, sadly, hasnt happened I don't feel so bad about feeding the troll. 2 points regarding the op:

1. I don't believe for a minute they support hibs.

2. I'm glad about that. Very glad.

[Jonnyboy]

Facts please. Dismissing anybody who didagress with you as indulging in a love in whilst repeating the same unsubstantiated claims over and over again does not advance your case. It DOES make you look bitter.
It's a pity you are willing to give Budge the benefit of the doubt though and not the head of your own club.
So once again.... Some facts please to back up your claims about STF. If you can't provide them you are either making them up or blindly following someone else's deluded agenda.

No chance, J. As I said, many posts ago, there's no point in trying to debate with someone expressing such entrenched views. To me, it's simply attention seeking by the OP

[Aldo]

No chance, J. As I said, many posts ago, there's no point in trying to debate with someone expressing such entrenched views. To me, it's simply attention seeking by the OP

Indeed JB. Seems to think that Budge and Co are doing a very good job and we should use their working model!!

[Bostonhibby]

I've held off posting on this thread hoping it would slip off and disappear. As that, sadly, hasnt happened I don't feel so bad about feeding the troll. 2 points regarding the op:

1. I don't believe for a minute they support hibs.

2. I'm glad about that. Very glad.
Agree.

It's none other than Ann herself having a wee hissy fit at her much younger and more popular rival.

All gone quiet for the night as they have a game tomorrow and she likes to put potter to bed by eight before sticking her curlers in, brewing up a horlicks and advocaat before dropping the walleys in a pint tumbler then bedding down for the night.

[Dashing Bob S]

I've no interest in backing Hessenhibee and he certainly talks a lot of nonsense about Leeann Dempster.

But....I think a number of people, including myself, would agree that the loans due to the holding co were the result of mismanagement over the past 7-8 years. I think it's difficult to dispute that Sir Tom Farmer is ultimately accountable, due to his faith in Petrie.

I also think Hibs have been slightly disingenuous in how they've communicated the bank deal. Albeit this type of commercial arrangement was never going to be explained to the pound and pence.

Despite that I also think Farmer had no need to effectively gift Hibs the share income. And God knows he will be worse off from his 25 year involvement in Hibs and we should be hugely greatful for his input in aggregate.

There's plenty of incorrect assumptions and misinformation on this thread though and Hessen isn't the only culprit.

Along comes a balanced post and spoils all the rancourous fun...

[Golden Bear]

Jeez - the guy is persistant if nothing else! I thought he'd given up trying to impress himself a few days ago but he's been back for more punishment. He's got masochist tendancies without a doubt!

[Leith Mo]

Missed a few games due to ill health butlogging on here tonight hasn't helped my recovery. LD is the best thing to happen to Hibs since STF stepped in. Not blinkered in any way re accusations of what might have/not happened since but the fact we still have our Club is down to one man for which he deserves our thanks. The OP needs to get back to Keekback

[Forza Fred]

A few jambos I know state that she is taking them for a ride. She's living the dream with their cash. Her money plus interest is guaranteed. ST has put more in and is getting less out.

Regardless of what team one supports, I think in today's cynical times, ANYONE, who apparently fills anywhere near the central casting produced 'white Knight' by pumping in money in any shape or form, will always have their intentions queried and be accused of, as we say where I am, of not being fair dinkum.

Being a very senior cynic, experience tells me that if anyone is seeking to invest money with the hope of making a profit, then one of the very last places it should be invested, would be in a football club in what is now a backwater competition in Europe.

Their financial arrangements may be different, but I am sure that Mt Farmer and Ms Budge put money in to the respective capital clubs, with financial gain certainly NOT being one of the driving factors.


If I should win $50 million I one of the Oz lotteries I keep telling the wife I would buy Hibs,
however should that happen I'm sure at least one person would swear he had knowledge I did it to make a profit!

[matty_f]

I've no interest in backing Hessenhibee and he certainly talks a lot of nonsense about Leeann Dempster.

But....I think a number of people, including myself, would agree that the loans due to the holding co were the result of mismanagement over the past 7-8 years. I think it's difficult to dispute that Sir Tom Farmer is ultimately accountable, due to his faith in Petrie.

I also think Hibs have been slightly disingenuous in how they've communicated the bank deal. Albeit this type of commercial arrangement was never going to be explained to the pound and pence.

Despite that I also think Farmer had no need to effectively gift Hibs the share income. And God knows he will be worse off from his 25 year involvement in Hibs and we should be hugely greatful for his input in aggregate.

There's plenty of incorrect assumptions and misinformation on this thread though and Hessen isn't the only culprit.

In what way have Hibs been disingenuous with the communication of the bank deal?

The other point about the financial mismanagement around the debt, now I'm happy to be corrected here but i think the debt was largely a combination of mortgage debt on the stands, which needed rebuilt at some point and so mismanagement is wrong, and legacy debt that had been built up years ago when the Sky deal collapsed and we found ourselves having to really cut back.

That Hibs managed to stay competitive for most of that time, whilst finishing the stadium and building the training centre and continuing to bring the debt down doesn't exactly reek of financial mismanagement.

Nobody will argue that relegation is not a result of the club being badly run, however the finances of the club have been managed.

[Tyler Durden]

In what way have Hibs been disingenuous with the communication of the bank deal?

The other point about the financial mismanagement around the debt, now I'm happy to be corrected here but i think the debt was largely a combination of mortgage debt on the stands, which needed rebuilt at some point and so mismanagement is wrong, and legacy debt that had been built up years ago when the Sky deal collapsed and we found ourselves having to really cut back.

That Hibs managed to stay competitive for most of that time, whilst finishing the stadium and building the training centre and continuing to bring the debt down doesn't exactly reek of financial mismanagement.

Nobody will argue that relegation is not a result of the club being badly run, however the finances of the club have been managed.

To answer the second point. I'm referring to the loans to holdco, half of which was incurred in the last 3 years. It's not legacy debt.

I understand your logic that you believe finances of the club have been managed well. The progress on infrastructure can't be denied. But the football operation is the biggest influencing factor of financial performance.

Look at the Colin Calderwood debacle which must have cost the club £500k. Look at how many managers have been paid off. The fact that for maybe 4/5 years these managers failed to identify or produce sellable assets. I'm thinking the gap between Bamba/Stokes and Scott Allan. Crowds down 30-40% in 4 years?

That's mismanagement. Petrie should've been removed before we got near relegation and that is STF's fault. Fantastic that Dempster has been brought in but it was too late

[matty_f]

To answer the second point. I'm referring to the loans to holdco, half of which was incurred in the last 3 years. It's not legacy debt.

I understand your logic that you believe finances of the club have been managed well. The progress on infrastructure can't be denied. But the football operation is the biggest influencing factor of financial performance.

Look at the Colin Calderwood debacle which must have cost the club £500k. Look at how many managers have been paid off. The fact that for maybe 4/5 years these managers failed to identify or produce sellable assets. I'm thinking the gap between Bamba/Stokes and Scott Allan. Crowds down 30-40% in 4 years?

That's mismanagement. Petrie should've been removed before we got near relegation and that is STF's fault. Fantastic that Dempster has been brought in but it was too late

I think what you look for is the board to have done due diligence when recruiting the managers, Calderwood came highly recommended by respected figures in the game, and Hibs backed him. When the bag of sweeties pish started, Hibs had already committed a fair whack to bring in his players. There wasn't much they could do other than try and make it work. Hindsight is great, but at the time the board were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Calderwood was a disaster, but it's not as simple as saying it was bad management.

I agree about the lack of player sales, the overall strategy of the club was not good enough, but again it's easy to say that in hindsight - Hibs weren't doing anything vastly different from the majority of similarly sized clubs at that time. I remember the fact that the board left signings to the manager being seen as a positive at the time.

STF has long been of the opinion that Hibs needs to stand on its own two feet and support itself. Football has lots of variables and some things happen that are outwith your control and so when he's been asked for additional funding, he's helped out.

[lucky]

Regardless of what team one supports, I think in today's cynical times, ANYONE, who apparently fills anywhere near the central casting produced 'white Knight' by pumping in money in any shape or form, will always have their intentions queried and be accused of, as we say where I am, of not being fair dinkum.

Being a very senior cynic, experience tells me that if anyone is seeking to invest money with the hope of making a profit, then one of the very last places it should be invested, would be in a football club in what is now a backwater competition in Europe.

Their financial arrangements may be different, but I am sure that Mt Farmer and Ms Budge put money in to the respective capital clubs, with financial gain certainly NOT being one of the driving factors.


If I should win $50 million I one of the Oz lotteries I keep telling the wife I would buy Hibs,
however should that happen I'm sure at least one person would swear he had knowledge I did it to make a profit!

Budge is going to make money on her investment. She's guaranteed her money back plus interest. The Yams are ploughing £120k a month into their club but have not seen one share handed over. She put the money up but it's debatable on whether she's putting cash in.

[Rougier45]

Budge is going to make money on her investment. She's guaranteed her money back plus interest. The Yams are ploughing £120k a month into their club but have not seen one share handed over. She put the money up but it's debatable on whether she's putting cash in.

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

[CropleyWasGod]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

Because the loan she has made to the club will be repaid before FOH get control. As for "low return".... 6%pa is a pretty good return these days. Where else could she guarantee such a rate?

As for STF having "got all his money back", you know that's not true.

[Bostonhibby]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1
The favourable valuation of the assets before the yam exited administration means that budgie has security over an asset worth at least the loan. Probably more if she has to cash it in.

Quit while you're behind

[Waxy]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1Wait till budge hands over control to your fans. Still with that antique of a stadium to sort out.

[Oscar T Grouch]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

So you think sitting in the championship is worse than not existing at all? :hahaha: But lets look it it as a bigger picture, we exist, albeit in the championship, but thats not forever, we have one of the best stadiums in Scotland, we have a paid for training facility, we are getting to buy 51% of the club at a fraction of the price and the money is going back into the club and not the current share holders pockets, we have one go the best CEOs in the country, we finally have a decent plan on how to take the club forward after years of being rudderless, we easily have a squad that can compete in the league above us, but we are in a worse position than we were when we were just saved from obliteration, had a stadium that needed fully upgraded, were training on public parks and porty beach :thumbsup: Time to jog on you massive troll, dinae let the door bang yer ar$e on the way back to the smelly side of town :na na:

[Aldo]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

Here we go again.

I find your continued Slagging off of STF very tasteless and in poor taste IMHO. He has backed the club to a healthy tune and SAVED US FROM OBLIVION. If, like others have mentioned, you think our current position is worse than not existing then you are at it big time.

Your current and continued 'Love in' all things 'Budge/Yam' whilst you slag and flare our owner and saviour is baffling.

I have seen others have also made comment on your questions about the yams so you have your answers. It's now up to you weather or not you believe what they are saying or continue in your current vain!

Poor show!

[McD]

Here we go again.

I find your continued Slagging off of STF very tasteless and in poor taste IMHO. He has backed the club to a healthy tune and SAVED US FROM OBLIVION. If, like others have mentioned, you think our current position is worse than not existing then you are at it big time.

Your current and continued 'Love in' all things 'Budge/Yam' whilst you slag and flare our owner and saviour is baffling.

I have seen others have also made comment on your questions about the yams so you have your answers. It's now up to you weather or not you believe what they are saying or continue in your current vain!

Poor show!


Its like King Canute sitting on the beach commanding the waves to stop. He's had many posters giving him hard facts to disprove the nonsense he's spouting and he still won't see it.


...if I keep on saying it, eventually it'll be true...:paranoid:

[Aldo]

Its like King Canute sitting on the beach commanding the waves to stop. He's had many posters giving him hard facts to disprove the nonsense he's spouting and he still won't see it. ...if I keep on saying it, eventually it'll be true...:paranoid:

Indeed. Tbh the facts are also there to be found!

[weecounty hibby]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

I mean at it. Or maybe I was right first time

[Iggy Pope]

Sir Tom, well, that's factually correct.
Saint Tom? He's a wee bit to go. Not far though.
Saint Sir Tom? C'mon. Do you get any of those three round your way HessenHibee?
(If you'd went for HessenHibby you might've got away with it.....)

[AndyM_1875]

Because the loan she has made to the club will be secured over the property. As for "low return".... 6%pa is a pretty good return these days. Where else could she guarantee such a rate?

As for STF having "got all his money back", you know that's not true.

True. Also fair to say that Sir Tom has overseen the transformation of Hibernian FC from the 1990 debt ridden club playing in a dilapidated stadium years past it's sell by date which trained on public parks, to one which has a grip on costs, is paying down it's debts and plays in a UEFA compliant, purpose built stadium that can be used for internationals and as a neutral venue in cup finals. On top of that it owns it's own Training Centre rather than rents it.

And for the O/P I can assure him that having worked for Mrs B in the past that she gives nothing away for free. She'll want her £ back. Also it's fair to say the longer the Yams dodge the stadium replacement/redevelopment issue the more painful it will be for them in the long term.

[CentreLine]

True. Also fair to say that Sir Tom has overseen the transformation of Hibernian FC from the 1990 debt ridden club playing in a dilapidated stadium years past it's sell by date which trained on public parks, to one which has a grip on costs, is paying down it's debts and plays in a UEFA compliant, purpose built stadium that can be used for internationals and as a neutral venue in cup finals. On top of that it owns it's own Training Centre rather than rents it.

And for the O/P I can assure him that having worked for Mrs B in the past that she gives nothing away for free. She'll want her £ back. Also it's fair to say the longer the Yams dodge the stadium replacement/redevelopment issue the more painful it will be for them in the long term.

I'm not convinced this will be an issue. As I see it, if they leave it long enough, it will become a listed building and they will source funding to help keep it as an ancient monument. I'm convinced our City Council will find a way.

[dangermouse]

I'm not convinced this will be an issue. As I see it, if they leave it long enough, it will become a listed building and they will source funding to help keep it as an ancient monument. I'm convinced our City Council will find a way.

I'd like to think the only listing of the Tynecastle stand will be that similar to a tower in Pisa.

[Bostonhibby]

Its like King Canute sitting on the beach commanding the waves to stop. He's had many posters giving him hard facts to disprove the nonsense he's spouting and he still won't see it.


...if I keep on saying it, eventually it'll be true...[emoji14]aranoid:
[emoji1] canute? Nah - every yam knows only Vladimir romanov can turn back the tide, part the seas, win the champions league, build the megasuperhotelstadium etc........

[Just Alf]

:lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam::l olyam::lolyam::lolyam::lolyam:




That is all

[AndyM_1875]

I'm not convinced this will be an issue. As I see it, if they leave it long enough, it will become a listed building and they will source funding to help keep it as an ancient monument. I'm convinced our City Council will find a way.

Unlikely. Our beloved City Council hasn't got a pot to pee in financially so there is no way they're getting a stadium from the local taxpayer, especially thanks to recent shots across their bows in the past from Sir Tom (http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/hibs-accuse-edinburgh-council-of-bias-towards-hearts-over-stadium-1-1981656#axzz3pIT7bBOX).
The Council is paying back the Trams and there are rumblings about the line being extended to Leith. On top of that Meadowbank is set for redevelopment as the city sports stadium. No council cash is coming their way.

Hearts cheapest option may be to sell up at Tynecastle and move out to the city bypass. Am sure there was a thread here where they'd been looking at land out past Riccarton. into West Lothian.

[CentreLine]

Unlikely. Our beloved City Council hasn't got a pot to pee in financially so there is no way they're getting a stadium from the local taxpayer, especially thanks to recent shots across their bows in the past from Sir Tom (http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/hibs-accuse-edinburgh-council-of-bias-towards-hearts-over-stadium-1-1981656#axzz3pIT7bBOX).
The Council is paying back the Trams and there are rumblings about the line being extended to Leith. On top of that Meadowbank is set for redevelopment as the city sports stadium. No council cash is coming their way.

Hearts cheapest option may be to sell up at Tynecastle and move out to the city bypass. Am sure there was a thread here where they'd been looking at land out past Riccarton. into West Lothian.

It was the "if they leave it long enough" bit that made my comment indefinite. 😜

[jacomo]

I think what you look for is the board to have done due diligence when recruiting the managers, Calderwood came highly recommended by respected figures in the game, and Hibs backed him. When the bag of sweeties pish started, Hibs had already committed a fair whack to bring in his players. There wasn't much they could do other than try and make it work. Hindsight is great, but at the time the board were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Calderwood was a disaster, but it's not as simple as saying it was bad management.

I agree about the lack of player sales, the overall strategy of the club was not good enough, but again it's easy to say that in hindsight - Hibs weren't doing anything vastly different from the majority of similarly sized clubs at that time. I remember the fact that the board left signings to the manager being seen as a positive at the time.

STF has long been of the opinion that Hibs needs to stand on its own two feet and support itself. Football has lots of variables and some things happen that are outwith your control and so when he's been asked for additional funding, he's helped out.

A very decent defence, but Calderwood was a disaster that was made worse when we were offered compensation by another club to take him off our hands, and turned it down. We then bottled it and sacked him three months later.

A fiasco all round, and definitely a case of mismanagement I'm afraid. I'm not saying Petrie didn't work hard or didn't care, but - for whatever reason - he made too many bad decisions as CEO. A lot of these decisions cost us a lot of money.

STF has been a great custodian of this club overall, but there is no doubt that we are all now paying for some of the mistakes made over the past few years.

[jdships]

True. Also fair to say that Sir Tom has overseen the transformation of Hibernian FC from the 1990 debt ridden club playing in a dilapidated stadium years past it's sell by date which trained on public parks, to one which has a grip on costs, is paying down it's debts and plays in a UEFA compliant, purpose built stadium that can be used for internationals and as a neutral venue in cup finals. On top of that it owns it's own Training Centre rather than rents it.

And for the O/P I can assure him that having worked for Mrs B in the past that she gives nothing away for free. She'll want her £ back. Also it's fair to say the longer the Yams dodge the stadium replacement/redevelopment issue the more painful it will be for them in the long term.

I have two friends one male /one female who worked for her and both hesitated when I asked what she was like to work too.
The female found her an " I'm in charge , and don't forget it " type while the male said she " did nothing for nothing "
Stadium replacement/redevelopment issue looks more and more like the probable ! Achilles Heel" !!

[jacomo]

I have two friends one male /one female who worked for her and both hesitated when I asked what she was like to work too.
The female found her an " I'm in charge , and don't forget it " type while the male said she " did nothing for nothing "
Stadium replacement/redevelopment issue looks more and more like the probable ! Achilles Heel" !!

No way she will commit to a new stadium. She is 'reviewing' the options, which buys a bit of time, and then she will clear out before the crunch decision is needed.

[CropleyWasGod]

The favourable valuation of the assets before the yam exited administration means that budgie has security over an asset worth at least the loan. Probably more if she has to cash it in.

Quit while you're behind

Actually, having seen the FOH accounts for the first time today, she doesn't have security. FOH do, though.

However, she will have her loan repaid before FOH can take control of the club.

[Bostonhibby]

Actually, having seen the FOH accounts for the first time today, she doesn't have security. FOH do, though.

However, she will have her loan repaid before FOH can take control of the club.
That's an odd one. So the consequences of not repaying her is she will forever own the entity that is the famous? A reverse Mike Ashley deal?[emoji1]

[CropleyWasGod]

That's an odd one. So the consequences of not repaying her is she will forever own the entity that is the famous? A reverse Mike Ashley deal?[emoji1]

It is odd, yes.

You're right, though.

[Bostonhibby]

It is odd, yes.

You're right, though.
Maybe she really does have a good idea of the ongoing cost of the famous old stadium[emoji6]

[hibs62]

Is the love in with Leann still in full flow ?

Whist I get that we have to keep prices at SPL level if we are to compete - 7 years in decline is taking its toll - fans have other thingsvto do on a Saturday - things are improving but another year at this level could kill us .

Leann apart from being a Glaswegian And a Rangers fan is doing an OK job but anyone who thinks that she is not taking orders from Rod is deluded .
The shares sale,was a disaster so what next .
I can't believe there has never been a bigger protest to force rod out

As for the fans on the board nonsense it's all a wash over to keep the hardcore deluded - never trust anyone by their words only their actions and until Rod goes I and lots of others will not return regularly as for buying shares I still have the old ones - that was worth it .

I would have thought by this stage everyone would see that Leeann is in charge and not taking orders from Rod Petrie. I have had the pleasure of meeting Leeann on several occasions and sat next to her at quite a few games now. She is fully committed to our club and is working day and night to try and make things work. She is a strong, determined, knowledgeable woman who deserves credit for a lot of the good things that have gone on since she took over. Nobody should question her commitment to Hibs - by the way she is definitely not a Rangers fan now. I am not "deluded" and I firmly believe that under Leeann we are in very good hands. I trust her 100%.

[The Green Goblin]

How is she she guaranteed her money back -, hearts are a junk asset - high risk - low return and very risky - sir tf has backed rod -. Rod has failed and it's the owners fault - all this bs about the Saint sir Tom is utter tosh - he has got all his money back - thanks sir t you saved us quater if a century ago now we're in a worse position - times up - appoint a new leader or. Do 1

And who do you think should replace STF?

[AndyM_1875]

I have two friends one male /one female who worked for her and both hesitated when I asked what she was like to work too.
The female found her an " I'm in charge , and don't forget it " type while the male said she " did nothing for nothing "
Stadium replacement/redevelopment issue looks more and more like the probable ! Achilles Heel" !!

She's undoubtedly a very clever business person, JD and I respect what she did with transforming N&B from a small Scottish software house into a large IT company that grew year on year before she sold up to the French company. But she was ruthless and knew to pick only battles she could win. At 68 she will have left Hearts with her money long before the stadium issue is tackled. So for her it will be a case of "bullet dodged".

She's certainly not a philanthropist like Sir Tom.

[jdships]

She's undoubtedly a very clever business person, JD and I respect what she did with transforming N&B from a small Scottish software house into a large IT company that grew year on year before she sold up to the French company. But she was ruthless and knew to pick only battles she could win. At 68 she will have left Hearts with her money long before the stadium issue is tackled. So for her it will be a case of "bullet dodged".

She's certainly not a philanthropist like Sir Tom.

Good assessment of the " situation " IMO
Ticks all the " question boxes "
:agree::thumbsup: