Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance - Man with a heart of cold

[snooky]

Come back Genghis Khan all is forgiven ....

Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.
Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.
And others would forget which party had done it, he added.
At the group's meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be "for keeps".
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
Mr Wild, who is research director of the think tank which campaigns for lower taxes and highlights examples of Government waste, said the cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons".
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."

Full article on BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

[Peevemor]

http://bathcitysound.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Bath-City-Sound-rik-poster-1.jpg

[steakbake]

Taxpayers Alliance often get quoted in the media like they are some kind of group of concerned, well-informed citizens who have found easy ways to sort out the apparent budget crisis.

They are basically a small government, low taxation pressure group and right wing think tank. Or as another description goes, UKIP with stats.

[CropleyWasGod]

The guy looks about 25.

As someone on FB just said, I hope he has an exceedingly miserable, long, drawn-out old age.... starting now.

[Onceinawhile]

I think that pensioners who have non state income of over £100,000 should lose their state pension/winter fuel allowance etc..

A number of other benefits are means tested I don't see why it shouldn't be.

That said, those comments r.e. Won't be around to vote at the next election or will forget are disgusting.

[Hibbyradge]

I think that pensioners who have non state income of over £100,000 should lose their state pension/winter fuel allowance etc..

A number of other benefits are means tested I don't see why it shouldn't be.

That said, those comments r.e. Won't be around to vote at the next election or will forget are disgusting.

The State Pension isn't a benefit as such. It's earned by paying NI.

[snooky]

A wee aside ...

In his conference speech in Manchester, the chancellor said the Tories had created a "new centre ground" and were "the true party of labour".

Irony or what?

Oh my sides :rotflmao:

[Hibs Class]

The State Pension isn't a benefit as such. It's earned by paying NI.

I'm amazed how many people think that a pension - state or work - is a benefit.

[snooky]

I'm amazed how many people think that a pension ... is a benefit.

Or in to some politicians & employers, your hard earned weekly wage.

[Andy74]

I'm amazed how many people think that a pension - state or work - is a benefit.

A work one most certainly is a huge benefit these days.

[Onceinawhile]

The State Pension isn't a benefit as such. It's earned by paying NI.

It's classed as such in terms of budget, hence my use of the term. I agree that it's earned over a number of years.

However, child benefit is also earned by paying NI as is the ability to get a number of benefits. I personally don't see why someone of a specific age shouldn't be subject to the same provisions as younger people with families.

Working tax credit also reduces the more you earn, why shouldn't state pension?

Tried to make this point to Damian Hinds earlier but my question wasn't taken.

[Hibs Class]

A work one most certainly is a huge benefit these days.

Definitely worth having, but it is deferred pay, not a benefit.

[Onceinawhile]

Definitely worth having, but it is deferred pay, not a benefit.

I'd disagree now that we have auto enrollment. For those in a job it isn't, perhaps for those getting a job it is.

[RyeSloan]

I'm amazed how many people think that a pension - state or work - is a benefit.

Semantics really...state pensions are paid out of current taxation so from a government sense they are funded in the same way as benefits are. It's more of an entitlement than anything but none the less the money you pay in NI or tax is not stored away waiting to provide you that entitlement later in life.

On the one hand it looks pretty simple to say that any pensioner benefit should be means tested...why give government monies to people that clearly don't require it but on the other hand why should the people that have made a success of their financial lives (and probably paid good levels of taxation when doing so) be told in all instances that their good work results in nothing but more 'punishment' by removing all state benefits and entitlements. Hardly encouraging that.

[snooky]

Semantics really...state pensions are paid out of current taxation so from a government sense they are funded in the same way as benefits are. It's more of an entitlement than anything but none the less the money you pay in NI or tax is not stored away waiting to provide you that entitlement later in life.

On the one hand it looks pretty simple to say that any pensioner benefit should be means tested...why give government monies to people that clearly don't require it but on the other hand why should the people that have made a success of their financial lives (and probably paid good levels of taxation when doing so) be told in all instances that their good work results in nothing but more 'punishment' by removing all state benefits and entitlements. Hardly encouraging that.


Two good opposite points of view there, SiMar.
Either way, the Government are still barstewards. :wink:

[Andy74]

Definitely worth having, but it is deferred pay, not a benefit.

Maybe in the public sector where they are still pretty much a guaranteed part of the deal. For most others now getting any part of a pension actually funded by an employer is a benefit and if you can get it a very useful one at that.

By the way I'm using benefit in the sense of stuff your employer provides as an extra other than a welfare type benefit!

[RyeSloan]

Two good opposite points of view there, SiMar. Either way, the Government are still barstewards. :wink:

Hee hee it was hardly the most definitive of proposals I grant you! ;-)

[Onceinawhile]

Semantics really...state pensions are paid out of current taxation so from a government sense they are funded in the same way as benefits are. It's more of an entitlement than anything but none the less the money you pay in NI or tax is not stored away waiting to provide you that entitlement later in life.

On the one hand it looks pretty simple to say that any pensioner benefit should be means tested...why give government monies to people that clearly don't require it but on the other hand why should the people that have made a success of their financial lives (and probably paid good levels of taxation when doing so) be told in all instances that their good work results in nothing but more 'punishment' by removing all state benefits and entitlements. Hardly encouraging that.

On your second paragraph - that is what happens with child benefit. Earn over 50,000 and it starts to get withdrawn, earn over 60,000 and it is gone.

Now I would argue that if you earn that much and need Govt support that you need to check your spending, but that's a separate argument.

So all I'm suggesting really is a little bit of equality between the two benefits / generations.

[RyeSloan]

On your second paragraph - that is what happens with child benefit. Earn over 50,000 and it starts to get withdrawn, earn over 60,000 and it is gone. Now I would argue that if you earn that much and need Govt support that you need to check your spending, but that's a separate argument. So all I'm suggesting really is a little bit of equality between the two benefits / generations.

And as I said it's a valid argument and certainly one rule for one and a different rule for another. The 'grey' vote has been targeted by all colours of politicians as they are still the most likely group to vote. It's also difficult to stand up and say that you are taking money away from pensioners no matter how correct you might be.

As I have said before that is exactly why governments overspend...as soon as they turn a funding tap on it becomes very difficult to turn it off as the vested interests will fight you all the way. Put a pre election bribe in one year and its then pretty permanent as you can't take it away the next without a whole hullabaloo.