more college shootings in yankland

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802

At least 10 people have been killed in a shooting at Umpqua Community College in the US state of Oregon, US media report.

[Colr]

For all the platitudes that will be forthcoming, this event will not change a thing about the US attitude to guns.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

For all the platitudes that will be forthcoming, this event will not change a thing about the US attitude to guns.

Indeed, we'll just have 3 or 4 pages of the same folk saying the same things as they did after the last unfortunate episode.

[Bishop Hibee]

"At least 13 people dead" says the BBC website. If there not shooting the crap out of another country then there shooting the crap out of each other. Sensible U.S. citizens must despair.

[cabbageandribs1875]

why does it always seem to be in colleges, and wtf can the headcases that do these things not just go away somewhere quiet and put a bullet in their own head instead of taking out decent innocent normal human beings along with them, evil pieces of %**%*

[Jones28]

Watching Obama talk about it and you can feel his frustration. I then made the mistake of looking at some of the comments from Americans underneath and oh my god they are unbelievable, majority were NRA fans demanding Obama leave their guns alone!

[Hibs Class]

why does it always seem to be in colleges, and wtf can the headcases that do these things not just go away somewhere quiet and put a bullet in their own head instead of taking out decent innocent normal human beings along with them, evil pieces of %**%*

They are evil. Just as evil, IMO, are those in the US pro-gun lobby, without whom America would surely have introduced some form of effective gun control. They have a president who is desperate to address this problem but the opposition he faces can only be described as evil, when the consequences of doing nothing continue to be seen with heart-breaking regularity.

[Hibrandenburg]

Read a statistic in the Guardian that claims there have been 993 similar incidents since Obama's second term of office began in 2012. How ****ing
****ing mental is that?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/01/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting

[The Gorf]

Apparently they class a mass shooting as 4 or more dead. Sky news say that means there has been ONE A DAY over the last year. One mass shooting that is. Apparently he was a Brit.

[cabbageandribs1875]

They are evil. Just as evil, IMO, are those in the US pro-gun lobby, without whom America would surely have introduced some form of effective gun control. They have a president who is desperate to address this problem but the opposition he faces can only be described as evil, when the consequences of doing nothing continue to be seen with heart-breaking regularity.



looks like the fruitcake had a problem with christianity

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424713



Stacy Boylan, whose daughter survived the shooting, told US television network CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting/index.html) that his daughter described to him how the gunman asked his victims to state their religion before shooting them.
"'Are you a Christian?' he would ask them, 'and if you are a Christian stand up,'" the father recalled.
Mr Boylan said the gunman told the victims: "because you're a Christian you're going to see God in just about one second".


and delving deeper http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34423534

also a fan of the IRA ...what a strange individual

[HibsMax]

From an article a friend shared with me:
On average, 36 people die per day through gun violence.
Yesterday was the 45th shooting on a school campus this year.
It's the 142nd shooting at a school since Sandy Hook in 2012.
More than 9,900 gun deaths this year so far.
More than 20,000 gun-related injuries this year so far.

Sounds like Iraq or Syria.

[Hibrandenburg]

From an article a friend shared with me:
On average, 36 people die per day through gun violence.
Yesterday was the 45th shooting on a school campus this year.
It's the 142nd shooting at a school since Sandy Hook in 2012.
More than 9,900 gun deaths this year so far.
More than 20,000 gun-related injuries this year so far.

Sounds like Iraq or Syria.

More guns is the only sensible answer.

[lord bunberry]

Did anyone here one of the survivors on radio 2 saying that the answer was to arm more people? I really do despair. I know we live in a very society from them, but it's idiotic to think that more guns is the answer. I also wasn't aware that you could have a license to carry a concealed fire arm in America.

[Haymaker]

Did anyone here one of the survivors on radio 2 saying that the answer was to arm more people? I really do despair. I know we live in a very society from them, but it's idiotic to think that more guns is the answer. I also wasn't aware that you could have a license to carry a concealed fire arm in America.

Only in certain states can you carry concealed.

[HibsMax]

Did anyone here one of the survivors on radio 2 saying that the answer was to arm more people? I really do despair. I know we live in a very society from them, but it's idiotic to think that more guns is the answer. I also wasn't aware that you could have a license to carry a concealed fire arm in America.
That varies by state and requires a different license. But yes, some people are packing while they walk around he grocery store.

Hear me out because I'm not crazy but I kinda understand why some people think the answer is more guns. First of all though, I don't believe that is the answer. If, for example, teachers were armed, or had access to a firearm, it is possible that they could intervene and stop / limit the carnage caused by a mad man with a fire arm. However, in my opinion, that is the absolute best-case scenario and that is the one that the "more guns" lobby cling onto. Let's look at what could go wrong though:
1. The teacher might have a nervous breakdown, and now they have access to a gun. Teachers would also be required to undergo training. What if they don't want access to a firearm? What if they kill or injure someone else by accident?
2. What if a student gets access to one of these firearms? If they want to cause harm but have no easy access to a firearm, now they have one. It might not be easy getting access to the firearm but they know they are available. You can't steal a gun from a school / teacher if there are no guns to steal in the first place.

Those are just the two obvious worst-case scenarios. I'm sure there are many other variations.

Leaving schools for a moment. I can understand why some people might see the rise in gun crime (or become more aware of gun crime) and they get frightened. They see the world as a place gone mad and the only way to protect yourself is to arm yourself. "Why not? The criminals are armed.". Some of these people will buy a firearm AND receive proper training on it's storage and usage. Some of these people will buy a firearm and leave it on their sideboard. While I have no issue with gun ownership (to an extent - not fully automatic assault rifles for example), I do have an issue with improper handling of firearms, including storage.

One of the biggest issues I see is this. On one hand you have people trying to make gun ownership more difficult for those who should not own guns. On the other you have gun owners taking a "you're not getting my guns" stance. Responsible, law-abiding gun owners shouldn't have anything to worry about. The purpose of newer gun legislation is to keep the guns out of the wrong hands, not everyone's hands. It's a very polarising debate without much middle-ground.

[Jim44]

I heard that some crazy pastor said that the solution was to arm every student with a gun.

[lord bunberry]

Only in certain states can you carry concealed.
I'm presuming from the interview that this particular state promotes guns as long as they're concealed. ****ng madness. I'm sure there's going to be a weak defence of this argument coming but the fact is if people don't have guns people don't get shot.. Fact.

[RyeSloan]

I'm presuming from the interview that this particular state promotes guns as long as they're concealed. ****ng madness. I'm sure there's going to be a weak defence of this argument coming but the fact is if people don't have guns people don't get shot.. Fact.


Just as well it wasn't Arizona where you don't even need to conceal the thing! And some of the reasoning behind the support of open carry is classic American gun lobby logic...gangsters and bad people would not show you they had a gun, nooo they like to keep it hidden so nobody thinks they are a gangster. Only true upstanding citizens would be comfortable with people knowing they are armed so if you see someone open carrying a hand gun that could kill you and everyone around you in seconds there is no need to worry!

Therefore logic dictates that of course it's absolutely fine for your citizens to routinely go about their business sporting side arms.

I mean how can you reason with the unreasonable?

[lord bunberry]

That varies by state and requires a different license. But yes, some people are packing while they walk around he grocery store.

Hear me out because I'm not crazy but I kinda understand why some people think the answer is more guns. First of all though, I don't believe that is the answer. If, for example, teachers were armed, or had access to a firearm, it is possible that they could intervene and stop / limit the carnage caused by a mad man with a fire arm. However, in my opinion, that is the absolute best-case scenario and that is the one that the "more guns" lobby cling onto. Let's look at what could go wrong though:
1. The teacher might have a nervous breakdown, and now they have access to a gun. Teachers would also be required to undergo training. What if they don't want access to a firearm? What if they kill or injure someone else by accident?
2. What if a student gets access to one of these firearms? If they want to cause harm but have no easy access to a firearm, now they have one. It might not be easy getting access to the firearm but they know they are available. You can't steal a gun from a school / teacher if there are no guns to steal in the first place.

Those are just the two obvious worst-case scenarios. I'm sure there are many other variations.

Leaving schools for a moment. I can understand why some people might see the rise in gun crime (or become more aware of gun crime) and they get frightened. They see the world as a place gone mad and the only way to protect yourself is to arm yourself. "Why not? The criminals are armed.". Some of these people will buy a firearm AND receive proper training on it's storage and usage. Some of these people will buy a firearm and leave it on their sideboard. While I have no issue with gun ownership (to an extent - not fully automatic assault rifles for example), I do have an issue with improper handling of firearms, including storage.

One of the biggest issues I see is this. On one hand you have people trying to make gun ownership more difficult for those who should not own guns. On the other you have gun owners taking a "you're not getting my guns" stance. Responsible, law-abiding gun owners shouldn't have anything to worry about. The purpose of newer gun legislation is to keep the guns out of the wrong hands, not everyone's hands. It's a very polarising debate without much middle-ground.
I think the whole debate about everyone being armed is quite interesting, as it probably would stop these mass shootings happening. I mean who would walk into a building with the intention of shooting loads of already armed people? The problem with everyone being armed is that the very scenario you describe above would be occurring thousands of times a week. People having a bad day/week/month are armed, people who have had too much to drink are armed. I could list thousands of reasons why people shouldn't be armed, but the reason for people having guns is that other people have them. I'm probably looking at this whole thing from a very British point of view, but it's hard to see the logic of the gun lobby.

[lord bunberry]

Just as well it wasn't Arizona where you don't even need to conceal the thing! And some of the reasoning behind the support of open carry is classic American gun lobby logic...gangsters and bad people would not show you they had a gun, nooo they like to keep it hidden so nobody thinks they are a gangster. Only true upstanding citizens would be comfortable with people knowing they are armed so if you see someone open carrying a hand gun that could kill you and everyone around you in seconds there is no need to worry!

Therefore logic dictates that of course it's absolutely fine for your citizens to routinely go about their business sporting side arms.

I mean how can you reason with the unreasonable?
I really didn't know that. It's funny how we speak the same language and think of ourselves as being quite similar(well I do) but we're really not.

[K-Zazu]

It's pretty mental to think that people in America can walk around supermarkets packing a gun like

[cabbageandribs1875]

wee lassie shot dead....by a wee laddie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841


An 11-year-old boy in the US state of Tennessee has been held on suspicion of shooting dead an eight-year-old girl in a row over a puppy.
The boy has been charged with first-degree murder as a juvenile.

[DaveF]

Add another 50 plus to the total following the latest mass shooting Orlando.

Just looked up the gun they say he used, which looks like an army type issue machine gun.

Devastating for all affected.

[Hibbyradge]

If the club goers had been armed, this wouldn't have happened.

[cabbageandribs1875]

absolutely horrific


only caught the tale-end of news report, sure they said he called 911 and pled allegiance to islamic state

[Betty Boop]

What a tragedy.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/12/omar-mateen-orlando-nightclub-attack-shooter-named

[McD]

I have a lot of positivity for America, but I cannot get my head around the logic of their need for firearms and their gun lobbyists (that lack of logic may be the most sensible statement to about it of course).

i was speaking to someone recently about dunblane, and that even 20 years later it's still such a shocking occurrence, yet over there that kind of thing seems to happen multiple times a year. And they weep, and wring their hands, yet don't seem to do anything to stop it.

The usual argument trotted out ..."people kill people, not guns".... Most of these situations, someone with a knife wouldn't cause half as much carnage and pain as they have with guns.

Another tragedy. More shattered lives. Shameful, terrifying, heartbreaking, soul destroying.

[Jim44]

ISIS claiming responsibility. Strengthens the Trump campaign? :paranoid:

[RyeSloan]

I have a lot of positivity for America, but I cannot get my head around the logic of their need for firearms and their gun lobbyists (that lack of logic may be the most sensible statement to about it of course). i was speaking to someone recently about dunblane, and that even 20 years later it's still such a shocking occurrence, yet over there that kind of thing seems to happen multiple times a year. And they weep, and wring their hands, yet don't seem to do anything to stop it. The usual argument trotted out ..."people kill people, not guns".... Most of these situations, someone with a knife wouldn't cause half as much carnage and pain as they have with guns. Another tragedy. More shattered lives. Shameful, terrifying, heartbreaking, soul destroying.

Well said. Shocking incident with so many deaths and injuries but as ever the narrative will be arming more people to prefect themselves and some sort of retribution...it's clear that no matter how many of these horrific incidents America suffers their gun culture will never get the blame.

[Hibrandenburg]

If I was a religious nutter with the need to kill people I wouldn't choose a country to act out my fantasies where I'd have to make my own arrangements and smuggle in the weaponry I needed to carry out an atrocity. I'd pick a country where all the stuff I needed would be readily accessible with minimum effort on my part.

[pacoluna]

They are evil. Just as evil, IMO, are those in the US pro-gun lobby, without whom America would surely have introduced some form of effective gun control. They have a president who is desperate to address this problem but the opposition he faces can only be described as evil, when the consequences of doing nothing continue to be seen with heart-breaking regularity.

I think its ingrained somehow within their culture I will never understand it - in Iceland 1/3 of the population hold a firearm however crime of any sort is nearly nonexistent.

Americas gun culture is in tandem with religious Hate.

[(((Fergus)))]

If I was a religious nutter with the need to kill people I wouldn't choose a country to act out my fantasies where I'd have to make my own arrangements and smuggle in the weaponry I needed to carry out an atrocity. I'd pick a country where all the stuff I needed would be readily accessible with minimum effort on my part.

Your first priority would be to choose a country which "deserved" it.

In this case, however, the ****** didn't need to choose the country – he was born there.

There are several countries in the world where gays are routinely executed. He just wanted to apply the same standards. A one-way ticket would have been better.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

ISIS claiming responsibility. Strengthens the Trump campaign? :paranoid:

It will, but it shouldn't as this particular nutjob was born and bred in the USA.

They will never learn, no matter how much evidence from other countries is put in front of them. They have the right to have guns from the second amendment - the clue is in the name - amend it again!

[RyeSloan]

It will, but it shouldn't as this particular nutjob was born and bred in the USA. They will never learn, no matter how much evidence from other countries is put in front of them. They have the right to have guns from the second amendment - the clue is in the name - amend it again!

Ha a very good point!

Even then it's quite clear that the second amendment was never intended to be interpreted as it has been.

I'm also sure that I read somewhere that the majority of Americans are actually in favour of more gun control but it's the vocal (and well funded) minority that has ensured the current state of play remains. I might be wrong on hat point tho.

As a nation they seem to have somehow came to the conclusion that there is nothing that can be done about it no matter what their opinions are on the matter, which is almost as dispiriting as the NRA's warped views.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

As if buying a handgun isn't bad enough, this guy had an assault rifle. The gun is specifically designed for mass killing, WTF would you make it available on the open market? Surely a sensible start to reform would be to ban things like this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/12/the-gun-used-in-the-orlando-shooting-is-becoming-mass-shooters-weapon-of-choice/

I lived in the US for a while and have been there several times on holiday and business. It's a great county and I have a lot of time for the people. But this is crazy and something I will never be able to get my head round.

[hibsbollah]

The AR15 is an assault rifle, the same one that was used in the Sandy Book massacre. It fires 45 rounds per minute, there are over three million(!) of them in the US and in Florida you can walk into a shop and out the same day with one.

I can't get my head around how this situation can be rationalized by any sane person.

[Hibrandenburg]

The problem is that the gun lobby have support amongst the Republicans and the Democrats. If anyone tries to weaken their power then the gun nuts on both sides polarise to the other side. There's votes to be won and lost on guns but until both sides pull together nothing will change.

[Allant1981]

The AR15 is an assault rifle, the same one that was used in the Sandy Book massacre. It fires 45 rounds per minute, there are over three million(!) of them in the US and in Florida you can walk into a shop and out the same day with one.

I can't get my head around how this situation can be rationalized by any sane person.


its a lot more than 45 per minute, crazy that they sell this to almost anyone

[hibsbollah]

its a lot more than 45 per minute, crazy that they sell this to almost anyone

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-ar15-gun-used-in-orlando-20160613

[Hibrandenburg]

its a lot more than 45 per minute, crazy that they sell this to almost anyone

All depends on how quickly you can change the mag.

[TheReg!]

In theory you can fire 800rnds per minute in full automatic mode.

[Haymaker]

In theory you can fire 800rnds per minute in full automatic mode.

Most AR-15s are restricted to semi or 3 round bursts. The military version (M4?) can go full auto.

[TheReg!]

Most AR-15s are restricted to semi or 3 round bursts. The military version (M4?) can go full auto.

Yeah I know that mate, I was just pointing out what these types of long barrelled wpns can do in theory, as it happens it seems like it was a Sig Sauer MCX (according to police spokesman) which has similar characteristics to a AR-15. Anyway my point is that there should be a blanket ban on semi automatic wpns in the USA but on saying that, they estimate there could be between 3-5 MILLION of these type of weapons all ready in circulation, get your head around that 😳