Hibs and Spartans end development agreement

[thebausburst]

Reported in hootsman that Hibs and Spartans have ended their development agreement after only 18 months, due to irreconcilable differences over approach to development of the kids - dissapointing:confused:

[Radium]

The only comment is from Spartans,

“Unfortunately it has become clear that ourselves and Hibs have different approaches to the development of young players,” said Spartans chairman Craig Graham. “It is a great shame that the project did not work out as we had hoped. We obviously wish Hibs youth development all the best for the future but we will now focus all our attentions on developing the promising youngsters we have at Spartans.”

Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/spartans-and-hibs-end-development-agreement-1-3903889#ixzz3nINlpy6b

If it wasn't working, best to part ways earlier, and move on. The collaboration related to 8-11 year olds so the impact would not be/ will not be anything approaching immediate.

[mjhibby]

I find this incredibly disappointing.As a youth coach in the age bracket ive always found spartans to be superbly run.From the facilities to the coaches and the standard of coaching the kids receive.Their teams always play very good football and all the kids have good technique with the emphasis on the team. Ive no idea what has caused the split but can only think it is personality clashes or hibs wanting the kids to be winners which im afraid is the wrong thing to do at that age.As i said spartans do a brilliant job with their teams and i hope some other team doesnt take hibs place and reap the benefit.

[green day]

My thought when this first came out was 'so what'.

It wasnt entirely clear what the benefits were going to be anyway.

Frankly I would be entirely happy to hear nothing about our sports science, nothing about coaching, nothing about youth development, nothing about Hibs Ladies etc as long as the first team is winning or gets promoted.

[lucky]

Not sure if this is a loss or not. Have Spartans ever produced a young player that's went on to play at a high level? They are a well run community club but I doubt that Hibs will lose any future stars because of this

[Mikey09]

This was ALWAYS gonna happen! If Barcelona created a link with The Spartans they'd be telling the Catalans the best way to run a youth set up. They're that far up there own ***** at Ainslie park I'm surprised they heard anything Hibs were saying to them. Ah The Spartans... The self appointed mouth pieces of non-league and youth football... No loss whatsoever.

[Peevemor]

Not sure if this is a loss or not. Have Spartans ever produced a young player that's went on to play at a high level? They are a well run community club but I doubt that Hibs will lose any future stars because of this

I wondered the same thing. 10 minutes of googling suggests the answer is no.

[Torto7062]

I find this incredibly disappointing.As a youth coach in the age bracket ive always found spartans to be superbly run.From the facilities to the coaches and the standard of coaching the kids receive.Their teams always play very good football and all the kids have good technique with the emphasis on the team. Ive no idea what has caused the split but can only think it is personality clashes or hibs wanting the kids to be winners which im afraid is the wrong thing to do at that age.As i said spartans do a brilliant job with their teams and i hope some other team doesnt take hibs place and reap the benefit.


Agreed.

I coached at Spartans for 3yrs and can say it's a well run
Community Club with the idea that the kids progress in
The correct manner development wise, I feared this wouldn't last as a club like Hibs will want the winning mentality
from the outset which going with S.F.A guidelines isn't
Necessarily the best way to approach 8,9 or 10 yr olds.

Good luck to Spartans but if Hibs decided it's not for them
then so be it.....

GGTTH

[Mikey09]

I wondered the same thing. 10 minutes of googling suggests the answer is no.


Now Search how many players have made it having started at Hutchie or Tynie. But hey... I suppose those two don't have the modern facilities The Spartans got built for them.

[HIBEES 4 LIFE]

Spartans have also not had their youth system for particularly long. They have had to come from a long way behind Hutchie and Tynie and are now miles and miles ahead. This is disappointing as it could've been good for both clubs.

[Mikey09]

Spartans have also not had their youth system for particularly long. They have had to come from a long way behind Hutchie and Tynie and are now miles and miles ahead. This is disappointing as it could've been good for both clubs.


Could you explain why you think The Spartans are "miles and miles ahead" of the two clubs I mentioned?!

[Brightside]

Could you explain why you think The Spartans are "miles and miles ahead" of the two clubs I mentioned?!

at 8-11 he's prob right. Hutchie 05 are decent the 06 team are very poor. Tynie 05 has folded and the 06 team are average.

Lochend / Spartans / Dalkeith are the best groups in the 8-11 catch.

There is no need for Hibs to have teams at 8-11 yo. I've watched the training first hand and its very poor. Leave the kids with the youth teams, have an informal partnership in place with clubs that allows players to be monitored until they are ready for the step up to Pro-Youth. Far too many good wee players are being ruined by the lure of the badge rather than parents actually looking at what is on offer for the kids.

If i was Hibs i wouldnt invest a single penny in 8-11yo football.

[Steve20]

This was ALWAYS gonna happen! If Barcelona created a link with The Spartans they'd be telling the Catalans the best way to run a youth set up. They're that far up there own ***** at Ainslie park I'm surprised they heard anything Hibs were saying to them. Ah The Spartans... The self appointed mouth pieces of non-league and youth football... No loss whatsoever.

What absolute nonsense. Spartans is actually a very well run set up.

[Mikey09]

at 8-11 he's prob right. Hutchie 05 are decent the 06 team are very poor. Tynie 05 has folded and the 06 team are average.

Lochend / Spartans / Dalkeith are the best groups in the 8-11 catch.

There is no need for Hibs to have teams at 8-11 yo. I've watched the training first hand and its very poor. Leave the kids with the youth teams, have an informal partnership in place with clubs that allows players to be monitored until they are ready for the step up to Pro-Youth. Far too many good wee players are being ruined by the lure of the badge rather than parents actually looking at what is on offer for the kids.

If i was Hibs i wouldnt invest a single penny in 8-11yo football.


The comment was The Spartans haven't had there youth system as long as the 2 other clubs I mentioned yet are now miles and miles ahead of both. I took that as there entire youth set up. I agree with you that there is no need for Hibs to have teams at 8-11 age group. Youth teams can do this. One thing I don't get is the "focus" should be entirely about development and not creating a winning mentality. Why can't we "focus" on both?! Not directed at you underscore... Just a general question.

[JimBHibees]

This was ALWAYS gonna happen! If Barcelona created a link with The Spartans they'd be telling the Catalans the best way to run a youth set up. They're that far up there own ***** at Ainslie park I'm surprised they heard anything Hibs were saying to them. Ah The Spartans... The self appointed mouth pieces of non-league and youth football... No loss whatsoever.

Seems an unnecessarily bitter comment.

[Mikey09]

What absolute nonsense. Spartans is actually a very well run set up.


Where have I said they are poorly run?

[Mikey09]

Seems an unnecessarily bitter comment.


Not bitter... Comment just reflects dealings I've had with them.

[Brightside]

The comment was The Spartans haven't had there youth system as long as the 2 other clubs I mentioned yet are now miles and miles ahead of both. I took that as there entire youth set up. I agree with you that there is no need for Hibs to have teams at 8-11 age group. Youth teams can do this. One thing I don't get is the "focus" should be entirely about development and not creating a winning mentality. Why can't we "focus" on both?! Not directed at you underscore... Just a general question.

Its vital at that age that it is not about winning. Its about development. The fear of losing stifles development. No player at that age should be scared to express themselves on a pitch. FAR FAR too many coaches ruin kids by removing all that from them and replacing it with a win at all costs attitude. In Edinburgh there are some shocking examples of youth coaches doing that. Lets be clear - Kids love winning and there is nothing wrong with that. But a coach at that age should not care two hoots what the score is in a game at that level. His only job is to develop each and every player and make them good enough to move on to the next level.

[JimBHibees]

Not bitter... Comment just reflects dealings I've had with them.

So personal interactions rather than performance.

[mjhibby]

From teams we've played Tranent were by far the best with the best pass and move team I've seen for years. If anything they could have done with having greedy strikers but as a few have said its all about coaching technique and good habits. I'm afraid being a winner is either in you or not and I don't think you can coach that. Sorry to see that a few don't think the young kids matter as I feel it's vital that they are taught properly and they keep getting coached correctly as they get older. Scottish teams performances in Europe are a reflection on how are kids are coached hence the reason we struggle against so called small nations who have been coached properly and have better ball skills and game awareness. We neglect our youngsters at our peril.

[Brightside]

From teams we've played Tranent were by far the best with the best pass and move team I've seen for years. If anything they could have done with having greedy strikers but as a few have said its all about coaching technique and good habits. I'm afraid being a winner is either in you or not and I don't think you can coach that. Sorry to see that a few don't think the young kids matter as I feel it's vital that they are taught properly and they keep getting coached correctly as they get older. Scottish teams performances in Europe are a reflection on how are kids are coached hence the reason we struggle against so called small nations who have been coached properly and have better ball skills and game awareness. We neglect our youngsters at our peril.

I dont think anyone is saying that kids at that age dont matter....BUT Hibs shouldnt get invovled. They dont have the resources and its daft to spread themseleves thin just to pay it lip service. Leave the kids with the clubs that are focused on that age group, then bring them in when they are ready to step up to pro youth.

[Mikey09]

Its vital at that age that it is not about winning. Its about development. The fear of losing stifles development. No player at that age should be scared to express themselves on a pitch. FAR FAR too many coaches ruin kids by removing all that from them and replacing it with a win at all costs attitude. In Edinburgh there are some shocking examples of youth coaches doing that. Lets be clear - Kids love winning and there is nothing wrong with that. But a coach at that age should not care two hoots what the score is in a game at that level. His only job is to develop each and every player and make them good enough to move on to the next level.


Yep. But I think some go to great lengths to get there point over that it doesn't matter at all about winning when, as you say, kids love winning. I think there's a fine balance of getting it right with creating a winning mentality. It's a tough one. I do agree with you I'm just wondering if there is something we could do to foster a winning mentality at a young age. I've seen some awful reactions from some awful coaches to suggest we can't, but it can't be as cut and dry as that surely.

[Mikey09]

So personal interactions rather than performance.


:agree:

[Brightside]

Yep. But I think some go to great lengths to get there point over that it doesn't matter at all about winning when, as you say, kids love winning. I think there's a fine balance of getting it right with creating a winning mentality. It's a tough one. I do agree with you I'm just wondering if there is something we could do to foster a winning mentality at a young age. I've seen some awful reactions from some awful coaches to suggest we can't, but it can't be as cut and dry as that surely.

kids are born with that. You either have heart or you dont. I know a couple of kids that are technically brilliant but they'll never make it as they really just cant be ar$ed.

[Mikey09]

kids are born with that. You either have heart or you dont. I know a couple of kids that are technically brilliant but they'll never make it as they really just cant be ar$ed.


Sadly you're right... I suppose if someone had the formula to give a player heart as you call it, they would be a very wealthy person!! :agree:

[Peevemor]

Yep. But I think some go to great lengths to get there point over that it doesn't matter at all about winning when, as you say, kids love winning. I think there's a fine balance of getting it right with creating a winning mentality. It's a tough one. I do agree with you I'm just wondering if there is something we could do to foster a winning mentality at a young age. I've seen some awful reactions from some awful coaches to suggest we can't, but it can't be as cut and dry as that surely.

It's a very fine balance, especially when you consider that the kids with most talent/potential are often the alpha males in their class/school (or at least the ones that I knew were). Try telling them that winning isn't important!

[Ozyhibby]

On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.


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[Mcpakeisgod]

QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4475624]On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.

Hutchie had a habit of that, took Scott Robinson from inch quite late on so they got the credit. God knows what they done too him because he was an incredible wee player back then

[Ozyhibby]

I coach at Spartans in this age group and it is a great set up. And it's not all about winning. We have taken a lot of self inflicted defeats by rotating players positions so they learn the game, equal game time for all kids, making sure they pass out from the back, not playing all our best players in one team so they learn how to work for each other etc. there are other clubs doing this as well (Lochend, Dalkeith). People like to knock youth football in this country but there are a lot of volunteer coaches out there doing good work.
At Spartans we follow the player pathway to the letter and don't try shortcuts.
And remember we are trying to make it enjoyable for all the kids and not just the kids who are showing potential although we do have development training to help those kids realise that potential.
So yes, look at the stats and you will se lots of players listed as being ex-Hutchie or tynie but remember that they probably only spent a year or two there and were scouted by those clubs. The majority of the development was done at their own community club.


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[Ozyhibby]

QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4475624]On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.

Hutchie had a habit of that, took Scott Robinson from inch quite late on so they got the credit. God knows what they done too him because he was an incredible wee player back then

It's about money. Ever since Tynie got £90k for Craig Gordon, clubs have realised the potential gains to be made. It's the last youth team a player plays for that gets paid.


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[Brightside]

I coach at Spartans in this age group and it is a great set up. And it's not all about winning. We have taken a lot of self inflicted defeats by rotating players positions so they learn the game, equal game time for all kids, making sure they pass out from the back, not playing all our best players in one team so they learn how to work for each other etc. there are other clubs doing this as well (Lochend, Dalkeith). People like to knock youth football in this country but there are a lot of volunteer coaches out there doing good work.
At Spartans we follow the player pathway to the letter and don't try shortcuts.
And remember we are trying to make it enjoyable for all the kids and not just the kids who are showing potential although we do have development training to help those kids realise that potential.
So yes, look at the stats and you will se lots of players listed as being ex-Hutchie or tynie but remember that they probably only spent a year or two there and were scouted by those clubs. The majority of the development was done at their own community club.


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Thankfully Ozy is only negative about Hibs and is a very positive youth coach. :greengrin:greengrin :aok:

[greenlex]

If Spartans is about inclusion and development rather than winning then we are probably better off without them to be honest. Hibs need to breed/develop winners both technically and mentally.

[Andy74]

On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.


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Sam Stanton is also a good example of why Hibs needed to change their approach at youth level. Too many nice players who aren't suited to first team football.

[Ozyhibby]

Sam Stanton is also a good example of why Hibs needed to change their approach at youth level. Too many nice players who aren't suited to first team football.

Neither Spartans, Hutchie or Hibs made Sam nice. That comes from within.
I personally don't think 'nice' is the problem. I just don't think he is good enough.


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[sambajustice]

This was ALWAYS gonna happen! If Barcelona created a link with The Spartans they'd be telling the Catalans the best way to run a youth set up. They're that far up there own ***** at Ainslie park I'm surprised they heard anything Hibs were saying to them. Ah The Spartans... The self appointed mouth pieces of non-league and youth football... No loss whatsoever.

That's kind of what I've heard about them and I have no connection with them at all.

Its all about the parents getting the fivers out!

I think they're basically like a Celtic/Rangers (rip) type club of youth football in Edinburgh.

[Ozyhibby]

That's kind of what I've heard about them and I have no connection with them at all.

Its all about the parents getting the fivers out!

I think they're basically like a Celtic/Rangers (rip) type club of youth football in Edinburgh.

http://youtu.be/NbhwB0R53d4

Aye, it's all about getting fivers in, right enough.


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[JimBHibees]

http://youtu.be/NbhwB0R53d4

Aye, it's all about getting fivers in, right enough.


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What a cracking wee film that was. Obviously do alot of good community work, not all football related but the club provides the focus.

[Mikey09]

http://youtu.be/NbhwB0R53d4

Aye, it's all about getting fivers in, right enough.


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As wonderful as that is, and it is, you will find loads of clubs doing stuff like this for there area. So I'm not sure your point re posting that video. All clubs charge parents subs for there kids to play. But why post the video?!

[JimBHibees]

As wonderful as that is, and it is, you will find loads of clubs doing stuff like this for there area. So I'm not sure your point re posting that video. All clubs charge parents subs for there kids to play. But why post the video?!

The point was surely in response to a comment that it was all about getting fivers in.

[Ozyhibby]

As wonderful as that is, and it is, you will find loads of clubs doing stuff like this for there area. So I'm not sure your point re posting that video. All clubs charge parents subs for there kids to play. But why post the video?!

I posted a reply in response to an accusation that Spartans was all about the Parents getting the fivers out.
Did some Spartans kids kick a ball against your car or something? Why the hostility?


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[Bad Martini]

There surely cannot be anyone out there seriously suggesting kids of 8-11 are not taught how to play football (all aspects; passing, moving, skills, control, tactics etc) over a "winning mentality"?!?!?!

Seriously?

You believe at that age (before they can actually properly kick a ball and have proper technique and skill, they should be taught how to be winners??

You can TEACH skills; you can teach tactics, ball control, decision making to an extent and most of the atrributes that make a good fitba player. Two things you cannot teach;
Genius and heart.

Genius is there and it's what separates the average to good players from the greatest...
Heart cannot be taught. You are what you are. You are either bestowed with a winning mentality or you not.

Of course, you could try teaching 8-11 year olds this. Cause thats NEVER been done before eh? You havent moaned on here about hoofball and the "just get rid of it" school of thought? You do know where that come from eh???


Aye. The training pitches up and down the country from ******** coaches telling bairns to get rid of it...dont make a mistake...dont try these things (training or matches). Dont lose...cause that promotes greatness, confidence and teaches skills? Nope. It promotes fear, players scared of losing and misses the point entirely.

Bairns should be taught first.

Plenty time to toughen up when they get older. Or shall we have an army of bairns who are mentally tough and "winners" but canny kick a baw?? :aok:

:faf:

Radgeness on stilts.

[Ozyhibby]

There surely cannot be anyone out there seriously suggesting kids of 8-11 are not taught how to play football (all aspects; passing, moving, skills, control, tactics etc) over a "winning mentality"?!?!?!

Seriously?

You believe at that age (before they can actually properly kick a ball and have proper technique and skill, they should be taught how to be winners??

You can TEACH skills; you can teach tactics, ball control, decision making to an extent and most of the atrributes that make a good fitba player. Two things you cannot teach;
Genius and heart.

Genius is there and it's what separates the average to good players from the greatest...
Heart cannot be taught. You are what you are. You are either bestowed with a winning mentality or you not.

Of course, you could try teaching 8-11 year olds this. Cause thats NEVER been done before eh? You havent moaned on here about hoofball and the "just get rid of it" school of thought? You do know where that come from eh???


Aye. The training pitches up and down the country from ******** coaches telling bairns to get rid of it...dont make a mistake...dont try these things (training or matches). Dont lose...cause that promotes greatness, confidence and teaches skills? Nope. It promotes fear, players scared of losing and misses the point entirely.

Bairns should be taught first.

Plenty time to toughen up when they get older. Or shall we have an army of bairns who are mentally tough and "winners" but canny kick a baw?? :aok:

:faf:

Radgeness on stilts.

Agree 100%


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[GMD]

A few points to add here
- Hibs and Spartans had signed the agreement before Eddie May was in post, apparently he decided this wasn’t for him and so little effort entered into by Hibs.

- The winning mentality argument is a non starter, no competitive games were allowed against other clubs by these age groups at all by order of EM.

- Hibs have come out of this poorly as regards the impression made on the kids and parents involved. Hearts have already made contact with one of the age groups at Spartans.

Spartans youth set up seems to be on the right lines, 02s and 03s very strong and other age groups behind them heading in the same direction.

[Ozyhibby]

A few points to add here
- Hibs and Spartans had signed the agreement before Eddie May was in post, apparently he decided this wasn’t for him and so little effort entered into by Hibs.

- The winning mentality argument is a non starter, no competitive games were allowed against other clubs by these age groups at all by order of EM.

- Hibs have come out of this poorly as regards the impression made on the kids and parents involved. Hearts have already made contact with one of the age groups at Spartans.

Spartans youth set up seems to be on the right lines, 02s and 03s very strong and other age groups behind them heading in the same direction.

That's the feedback I was getting as well.


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[Mikey09]

There surely cannot be anyone out there seriously suggesting kids of 8-11 are not taught how to play football (all aspects; passing, moving, skills, control, tactics etc) over a "winning mentality"?!?!?!

Seriously?

You believe at that age (before they can actually properly kick a ball and have proper technique and skill, they should be taught how to be winners??

You can TEACH skills; you can teach tactics, ball control, decision making to an extent and most of the atrributes that make a good fitba player. Two things you cannot teach;
Genius and heart.

Genius is there and it's what separates the average to good players from the greatest...
Heart cannot be taught. You are what you are. You are either bestowed with a winning mentality or you not.

Of course, you could try teaching 8-11 year olds this. Cause thats NEVER been done before eh? You havent moaned on here about hoofball and the "just get rid of it" school of thought? You do know where that come from eh???


Aye. The training pitches up and down the country from ******** coaches telling bairns to get rid of it...dont make a mistake...dont try these things (training or matches). Dont lose...cause that promotes greatness, confidence and teaches skills? Nope. It promotes fear, players scared of losing and misses the point entirely.

Bairns should be taught first.

Plenty time to toughen up when they get older. Or shall we have an army of bairns who are mentally tough and "winners" but canny kick a baw?? :aok:

:faf:

Radgeness on stilts.


Don't think anyone has said that... But crack on with yer words of wisdom Jose...

[Biggie]

On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.


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Did we not get Derek Rodier from Spartans ?.........long shot but how about Colin Campbell an awe ?

[Peevemor]

Did we not get Derek Rodier from Spartans ?.........long shot but how about Colin Campbell an awe ?

Colin Campbell was originally from Benbecula (teeeeeuuuuchh!) and we signed him from Edinburgh Uni. I'm not sure about Rodier.

[CropleyWasGod]

Colin Campbell was originally from Benbecula (teeeeeuuuuchh!) and we signed him from Edinburgh Uni. I'm not sure about Rodier.

They were both at, and playing for, Edinburgh Uni.

[Mikey09]

I posted a reply in response to an accusation that Spartans was all about the Parents getting the fivers out.
Did some Spartans kids kick a ball against your car or something? Why the hostility?


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No hostility at all. Just asking questions...

[Ozyhibby]

No hostility at all. Just asking questions...

Fair enough. Here another wee video for you then.

http://youtu.be/BqIqzTMpc3Y



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[Brooster]

A few points to add here
- Hibs and Spartans had signed the agreement before Eddie May was in post, apparently he decided this wasn’t for him and so little effort entered into by Hibs.

- The winning mentality argument is a non starter, no competitive games were allowed against other clubs by these age groups at all by order of EM.

- Hibs have come out of this poorly as regards the impression made on the kids and parents involved. Hearts have already made contact with one of the age groups at Spartans.

Spartans youth set up seems to be on the right lines, 02s and 03s very strong and other age groups behind them heading in the same direction.

Interesting bit about the 03's because prior to the link up with Hibs the 03's were average at best. What brought about the upturn in performance?

[The goalie]

A few points to add here
- Hibs and Spartans had signed the agreement before Eddie May was in post, apparently he decided this wasn’t for him and so little effort entered into by Hibs.

- The winning mentality argument is a non starter, no competitive games were allowed against other clubs by these age groups at all by order of EM.

- Hibs have come out of this poorly as regards the impression made on the kids and parents involved. Hearts have already made contact with one of the age groups at Spartans.

Spartans youth set up seems to be on the right lines, 02s and 03s very strong and other age groups behind them heading in the same direction.

Yeah i thought it was funny that most posters started to debate Spartans, the debate should be about Hibs and Eddie May.
The youth set up at East Mains is really going to pot just now, I was told by one parent that the 17's dont even have full kit but Hibs tops with black shorts and socks! It really looks like a poor relation compared to others in the league. Also a number of very good players and Hibs fans to boot have walked, indeed there was a thread the other night about one such player and there has been plenty in the last 12 months or so. Might just be bitter parents etc but the stats say different.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting bit about the 03's because prior to the link up with Hibs the 03's were average at best. What brought about the upturn in performance?

Don't know anything about the 03's but the 04's group sent 9 kids of to play pro youth with various clubs so they must have been doing something right.


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[Mikey09]

Fair enough. Here another wee video for you then.

http://youtu.be/BqIqzTMpc3Y



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Good films. Great to see kids enjoying themselves with a lot of hard work being done.
Still don't think it's a loss for Hibs.

[sleeping giant]

The 2000's just knocked my laddies team out the Scottish Cup after extra time on Sunday.
I thought they were average at best .

[Brightside]

Yeah i thought it was funny that most posters started to debate Spartans, the debate should be about Hibs and Eddie May.
The youth set up at East Mains is really going to pot just now, I was told by one parent that the 17's dont even have full kit but Hibs tops with black shorts and socks! It really looks like a poor relation compared to others in the league. Also a number of very good players and Hibs fans to boot have walked, indeed there was a thread the other night about one such player and there has been plenty in the last 12 months or so. Might just be bitter parents etc but the stats say different.

the black shorts are the agreed strips. All the age groups have that. Nothing worse than parents!

[flash]

Thankfully Ozy is only negative about Hibs and is a very positive youth coach. :greengrin:greengrin :aok:

Particularly when being positive about youth fitba also allows him to be negative about Hibs!

[The goalie]

the black shorts are the agreed strips. All the age groups have that. Nothing worse than parents!


So cheapo black shorts and socks are fine were every other team are in the same kit as their first team? Boys clubs are better kitted out than our youths, its just more penny pinching.

[JimBHibees]

Did we not get Derek Rodier from Spartans ?.........long shot but how about Colin Campbell an awe ?

Spartans were originally set up as an Edinburgh Uni FP's team in 50s I think.

[Brightside]

So cheapo black shorts and socks are fine were every other team are in the same kit as their first team? Boys clubs are better kitted out than our youths, its just more penny pinching.

utter rubbish.

[Ozyhibby]

Particularly when being positive about youth fitba also allows him to be negative about Hibs!

Lol.
I'm not blaming Hibs here. I'm not expert enough to know who is right. I was just defending Spartans and youth coaching in general.


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[Andy74]

Yeah i thought it was funny that most posters started to debate Spartans, the debate should be about Hibs and Eddie May.
The youth set up at East Mains is really going to pot just now, I was told by one parent that the 17's dont even have full kit but Hibs tops with black shorts and socks! It really looks like a poor relation compared to others in the league. Also a number of very good players and Hibs fans to boot have walked, indeed there was a thread the other night about one such player and there has been plenty in the last 12 months or so. Might just be bitter parents etc but the stats say different.

The only stats that matter are how many players go on to be good first team players. That's it.

[greenlex]

There surely cannot be anyone out there seriously suggesting kids of 8-11 are not taught how to play football (all aspects; passing, moving, skills, control, tactics etc) over a "winning mentality"?!?!?!

Seriously?

You believe at that age (before they can actually properly kick a ball and have proper technique and skill, they should be taught how to be winners??

You can TEACH skills; you can teach tactics, ball control, decision making to an extent and most of the atrributes that make a good fitba player. Two things you cannot teach;
Genius and heart.

Genius is there and it's what separates the average to good players from the greatest...
Heart cannot be taught. You are what you are. You are either bestowed with a winning mentality or you not.

Of course, you could try teaching 8-11 year olds this. Cause thats NEVER been done before eh? You havent moaned on here about hoofball and the "just get rid of it" school of thought? You do know where that come from eh???


Aye. The training pitches up and down the country from ******** coaches telling bairns to get rid of it...dont make a mistake...dont try these things (training or matches). Dont lose...cause that promotes greatness, confidence and teaches skills? Nope. It promotes fear, players scared of losing and misses the point entirely.

Bairns should be taught first.

Plenty time to toughen up when they get older. Or shall we have an army of bairns who are mentally tough and "winners" but canny kick a baw?? :aok:

:faf:

Radgeness on stilts. that's what I'm saying.
I'm suggesting we start with winners and coach them properly. If you start the other way you'll end up with a team of Alex Harris'. I would assume that if as a youth you are at Hibs you have some ability about you. You can't teach someone to be a winner. You either have the desire of you don't. You can teach other things but not desire and will to win. If your a community club focusing on other things great but Hibs should be about having players ready to step up to the first team as well as being life ready not getting them off the streets for a fiver. Get the right kids in to start with. Giving kids game time because they are part of a club but little ability is all good and well and there are clubs the length and breadth of the country to play football with. As a professional club we should be about coaching and nurturing exsisting ability in winners and not being a club that encompasses players of limited ability looking for a kick about.

[Haymaker]

A "winning mentality" doesn't start and end with players. It has to be ingrained into the club as well. For example, look at Man United under SAF. He was a winner, the staff were winners, the players were winners.

Some of SAFs players left with healthy trophy cabinets and now look utterly lost in Premier League football yet were regularly in sides that battled game after game and never gave up.

[GMD]

Interesting bit about the 03's because prior to the link up with Hibs the 03's were average at best. What brought about the upturn in performance?

03s never involved with hibs set up, check the seryfa league tables, think they are top of div 1. 02s won div 1 last season, 04s look very decent even after losing 9 players to pro youth, think they will do well next season. These groups all benefiting since 2nd astro pitch laid down at AP.

[Hibby Bairn]

My take on Spartans v Hutchie v Tynie et al is that an increasing pool of talented yourgsters are heading down Ainslie Park way for their first taste of "organised" football. These are boys (and girls) that would previously have gone to Hutchie or Tynie. Primary reasons are facilities (astros, clubhouse, dressing rooms etc.) + general well organised and well run set up + growing identity that Spartans has.

I don't see this reversing in the coming years. Will probably get stronger. So you will probably see youth sides at Spartans becoming increasingly prominent and Hutchie Vale (who are already in general decline performance wise v recent past history) and others falling behind.

Go down to Ainslie Park any night between circa 6pm and 7.30pm and just see how many young kids are involved.

Any professional club that has a working link with them would probably be able to to help nurture and be aware of emerging talent.

[Stewboy]

Can't comment on the link up or other youth sides but my lad is in the 3-4 year old class on a Saturday morning. It's brilliant for kids that age with basic drills which are fun for them to do and wee group matches against each other

at that age they learn the basics and have fun which hopefully gives them the bug to keep playing

[Radium]

The 2000's just knocked my laddies team out the Scottish Cup after extra time on Sunday.

I thought they were average at best .


Particularly given they should have been 5-3 down 😉

[sleeping giant]

Particularly given they should have been 5-3 down 

Indeed :agree:

I'm now intrigued as to who you are. :greengrin

[offshorehibby]

It simply didn't work i don't see the need for all the mud slinging, it's Spartans fault this or it's Hibs fault that.

Both groups wanted completely different things Spartans are a community run concern and it looks like they bare doing great things down there for the kids, everybody gets a chance. Being an ex Muirhouse lad good on them

Hibs wanted maybe a bit more elite operation for their ends, maybe they just have to re-asses what can help them.

[marinello59]

It simply didn't work i don't see the need for all the mud slinging, it's Spartans fault this or it's Hibs fault that.

Both groups wanted completely different things Spartans are a community run concern and it looks like they bare doing great things down there for the kids, everybody gets a chance. Being an ex Muirhouse lad good on them

Hibs wanted maybe a bit more elite operation for their ends, maybe they just have to re-asses what can help them.

:agree:

[Planet Hibs]

Watch this age group alot, other than using ainslie park didn't really see any other benefit. Hibs lads were spread around all the boys clubs. Hutchy and lochend 05s in my opinion are strongest by a distance. 06 group prob lochend, Tynie and Spartans. Personally think pro youth should be age 12 upwards. Some seriously talented lads at this age and as another poster stated facilities are improving all the time, just need to make sure coaches making best use of them

[mjhibby]

Unfortunately in my experience the standard of coaching is patchy at best with no uniformed coaching of the kids. A lot of youth set ups are geared,like Spartans.to teaching kids the right way and in the right manner but some are pretty poor to be honest and it's a crying shame when kids talent isn't properly developed.,

[Beefster]

Totally bizarre that some posters' first reaction to any [irrelevant] news like this is to try and give the club a kicking.

You'd think Spartans youth setup was some sort of superstar factory from some of the reaction on here.

[Planet Hibs]

Think main issue was having an agreement with one boys club when there are probably over 40 odd clubs. Having good ties and relationships with as many clubs as possible is best way forward and ensuring the best talent is on the radar. Don't blame Hibs or Spartans here it's just an idea that has not worked out. Unfortunately In this age bracket Hibs are a few years behind Celtic and hearts academies

[Heisenberg]

Totally bizarre that some posters' first reaction to any [irrelevant] news like this is to try and give the club a kicking.

You'd think Spartans youth setup was some sort of superstar factory from some of the reaction on here.

Our 17s wear black shorts and socks though. Season ticket getting handed back today. Totally outrageous.

[Ozyhibby]

Totally bizarre that some posters' first reaction to any [irrelevant] news like this is to try and give the club a kicking.

You'd think Spartans youth setup was some sort of superstar factory from some of the reaction on here.

Don't think many are knocking the club here.
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding what this was supposed to achieve and how this came about.
Spartans had originally planned to do this with Dunfermline but the SFA stepped in and suggested they do it with Hibs as it was seen as the perfect fit. Spartans are seen as being good at coaching in the 8-11 age group (lots of kids going to pro youth in recent years) and Hibs have more experience with older kids.
I know from meetings I went to at the beginning that Spartans expectations of what would be involved and what actually happened were very far apart.
There was supposed to be regular feedback sessions with the player and parents and that did not happen. The parents were not impressed with the standard or style of coaching from Hibs.
A more holistic approach was to be taken with nutrition education for the kids and that did not happen.
It appears that at some point last season Hibs lost interest in making it work. Who that came from, I don't know.
I'm not sure what Hibs actually wanted from the whole deal. They never properly articulated it to the support. The one bit they did embrace was having a base in Edinburgh and since it started, getting pitch time at AP for the kids became a lot harder.
It's not a case of blaming one side or the other here. They obviously wanted different things from the match up.

One area I will have a go at the club is on communications. Spartans handed in their notice to quit about a month ago. There has been a thread on the PM board about it since then. Lots of people knew this was coming.
Yesterday when the story broke in the Evening News we had lots of quotes from Spartans chairman on both clubs having different ideas about coaching etc.
From Hibs all we got was 'no comment'.
I expected a bit more.


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[Brooster]

03s never involved with hibs set up, check the seryfa league tables, think they are top of div 1. 02s won div 1 last season, 04s look very decent even after losing 9 players to pro youth, think they will do well next season. These groups all benefiting since 2nd astro pitch laid down at AP.

The 03s are 2nd in the league but lets not split hairs. You've answered my question in that they have gone from a very average side to a top four side in over a year due to the extra 3g pitch at AP, thanks.

[jdships]

It simply didn't work i don't see the need for all the mud slinging, it's Spartans fault this or it's Hibs fault that.

Both groups wanted completely different things Spartans are a community run concern and it looks like they bare doing great things down there for the kids, everybody gets a chance. Being an ex Muirhouse lad good on them

Hibs wanted maybe a bit more elite operation for their ends, maybe they just have to re-asses what can help them.

Good post !
With both " My lads" having left EM's and losing my buddy Tam Preston am a bit short of " good info" but I understand you are right inasmuch as Hibs wanted/needed a bigger/greater end product .
Pity as it appeared to have potential !!

:rolleyes:

[GMD]

The 03s are 2nd in the league but lets not split hairs. You've answered my question in that they have gone from a very average side to a top four side in over a year due to the extra 3g pitch at AP, thanks.

Same points as Leith after 4 games, I believe they have won all their cup matches to date as well, off to a flyer. 2nd astro has meant more training slots through the week for all age groups. As another poster noticed the amount of kids training on any night during the week is huge, there is no doubt the facilities are a great draw for people compared to other clubs.

[Brightside]

Same points as Leith after 4 games, I believe they have won all their cup matches to date as well, off to a flyer. 2nd astro has meant more training slots through the week for all age groups. As another poster noticed the amount of kids training on any night during the week is huge, there is no doubt the facilities are a great draw for people compared to other clubs.

Its actually a bit of an unfair advantage for Spartans. Im sure all youth clubs would like such a gift. :wink:

[Brooster]

Same points as Leith after 4 games, I believe they have won all their cup matches to date as well, off to a flyer. 2nd astro has meant more training slots through the week for all age groups. As another poster noticed the amount of kids training on any night during the week is huge, there is no doubt the facilities are a great draw for people compared to other clubs.

Good to hear. Its always great to see the facilities being fully utilised and packed with kids every night. The facilities at AP are certainly on par with those offered by the likes of Tynie and Mussy Windsor....minus the grass pitches of course. Wink wink.

[Ozyhibby]

Its actually a bit of an unfair advantage for Spartans. Im sure all youth clubs would like such a gift. :wink:

There are lots of 3G pitches all over now. Edin City have the use of St. Augustines pitches, Hutchie and Tynie use saughton etc.


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[Gatecrasher]

Not bothered by this Hibs have a decent record of producing our own players, we don't need to link up with them.

[Brightside]

There are lots of 3G pitches all over now. Edin City have the use of St. Augustines pitches, Hutchie and Tynie use saughton etc.


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Not quite the same. Spartans were very fortunate to get what they did. Would be good to see the council do something similar for others...I'd love to see 4 or 5 Sparatans size facilities across the Edinburgh area.

[Ozyhibby]

Not quite the same. Spartans were very fortunate to get what they did. Would be good to see the council do something similar for others...I'd love to see 4 or 5 Sparatans size facilities across the Edinburgh area.

I agree. When the council are building all these new school facilities they should include a clubhouse beside the new pitches to be used by a local club out of school hours.


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[BoomtownHibees]

It's not a case of blaming one side or the other here.
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Which is exactly what you done throughout your post!!

[GreenArmy1875]

QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4475624]On the issue of players produced, Spartans youth set up is only about 10 years old I believe.
Sam Stanton was a Spartans player although he moved to Hutchie as a teenager, so they get the credit.

Hutchie had a habit of that, took Scott Robinson from inch quite late on so they got the credit. God knows what they done too him because he was an incredible wee player back then

Yeah going to Hutchie for a few years done him lots of damage.... While at Hutchie he went onto win the Scottish cup in a team undefeated in a season becoming their best player, scoring a shed load of goals and to get offered trials at Chelsea, Leicester and other clubs down south then to sign for Hearts and become a professional footballer......

[Purple & Green]

At what age do Hibs start 'signing' players? Is it 7,8,9,10?

And when you sign for Hibs do you stop playing for your school and boys club?

[Ozyhibby]

10 I believe and yes they stop playing for club or school.


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[Dashing Bob S]

To me this is no news at all. Neither Hibs nor Spartans have produced any world beaters from this arrangement, (or, admittedly, prior to it) and I hope both are more successful at producing players individually rather than together.

[Purple & Green]

10 I believe and yes they stop playing for club or school.


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Thanks for that :)

[Hibby Bairn]

10 I believe and yes they stop playing for club or school.


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They do not insist you stop playing for your school.

[Ozyhibby]

They do not insist you stop playing for your school.

You could be right, I just assumed schools would be in the same boat as the clubs.


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[Hibby Bairn]

Its actually a bit of an unfair advantage for Spartans. Im sure all youth clubs would like such a gift. :wink:

A product of fortunate circumstances particularly City Park. But also a huge amount of hard work done by many people to make it happen. A fantastic blueprint for others.

[Hibby Bairn]

You could be right, I just assumed schools would be in the same boat as the clubs.


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I think it was same policy a few years ago but thankfully changed. Some of the best footballing days of any young player is with your school mates.

[bingo70]

I think it was same policy a few years ago but thankfully changed. Some of the best footballing days of any young player is with your school mates.

Are you sure it's changed?

My mates laddie plays for one of the younger age groups and he's not allowed to play any other football.

[Hibby Bairn]

Are you sure it's changed?

My mates laddie plays for one of the younger age groups and he's not allowed to play any other football.

I'll be watching a lad tomorrow morning playing for his school who plays with Hibs U15s. And he will be loving every minute of it.

[EH6 Hibby]

Boys are still allowed to play for their clubs until they sign pro youth. They are still allowed to play for their schools beyond this but pro youth games are usually Saturday mornings so usually conflict with school games. My sons school team has 3 pro youth players who still play when they can but usually this is just cup games nowadays.

[Brooster]

10 I believe and yes they stop playing for club or school.


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Hibs (and most other pro youth clubs) stll let kids play school football.

[MrRobot]

I can't believe they don't play in the same full kit as the Hibs first team, that must be very damaging to the players own ability...