View Full Version : Official Site: Stubbs On St Mirren Draw
RSS Bot
26-09-2015, 08:40 PM
More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5721)
More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5721)
The TT's squad in 1972, granted, a great deal more talented, but it was also a great deal smaller than today's equivalent. That squad was able to cope with two games in a week, and back then the opposition really were hard and hard then is a world away from what what sides like Livingston & ST Mirren would be described as!
Going by this and given the size of Hibs staff these days, I knew at the time Tom McNiven was superb, if modern players, on bowling green type pitches [by comparison] are jaded with three games in a week, given his resources, Tom must have rivalled JC as a miracle maker, as his Hibs teams played almost every mid week for months on end, without being as jaded was we were today!
Sorry Alan, I don't buy this three games in a week nonsense, we had just come back from having a week off for international games.
Although I like the management team, I despair when I hear such pathetic excuses and wonder how we can ever turn our players in to winners when such an inept performance can be explained away like this.
Green Fish
26-09-2015, 09:42 PM
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
AFKA5814_Hibs
26-09-2015, 09:44 PM
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
Both games were moved for TV. I don't get any excuse for playing midweek. All professional football players should be able to play Sat-Wed-Sat.
Albion Hibs
26-09-2015, 09:46 PM
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
Because it it is absolutely essential that they return to the premier league this year. If they don't football across the world will seek to exist.
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
TV.
Ah, it is a conspiracy rather than just an extremely poor excuse? I'm sorry, having to play 270 minutes of football in 8 days should never be considered excessive, god help us if it is.
lord bunberry
26-09-2015, 10:06 PM
I'm sick of ****ing excuses. I've listened to one after another for 30 years, it was time to deliver and we didn't. If we can't cope with 3 games in a week we will win **** all. I'm feeling pretty despondent tonight.
B.H.F.C
26-09-2015, 10:07 PM
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
Let's no be using that type of thing for our own failings.
Golden Bear
26-09-2015, 10:11 PM
Jaded, maybe, but why are sevco who played on the Tuesday waiting until Sunday to play their league game
Aye the Martians are coming tae get us, mark my words. The conspiracy theories continue it seems.
Green Fish
26-09-2015, 10:22 PM
Let's no be using that type of thing for our own failings.
FWIW I agree, it is not a valid reason to use. There is no doubt that professional players should be able to perform after two days recovery. Just querying why they have 4 days in-between games
B.H.F.C
26-09-2015, 10:32 PM
FWIW I agree, it is not a valid reason to use. There is no doubt that professional players should be able to perform after two days recovery. Just querying why they have 4 days in-between games
Tv dictated their kick off times, simple. Fatigue had nothing to do with the sitters that Boyle, Malonga, Henderson and Fontaine missed in the second half today.
Alfred E Newman
27-09-2015, 06:04 AM
The TT's squad in 1972, granted, a great deal more talented, but it was also a great deal smaller than today's equivalent. That squad was able to cope with two games in a week, and back then the opposition really were hard and hard then is a world away from what what sides like Livingston & ST Mirren would be described as!
Going by this and given the size of Hibs staff these days, I knew at the time Tom McNiven was superb, if modern players, on bowling green type pitches [by comparison] are jaded with three games in a week, given his resources, Tom must have rivalled JC as a miracle maker, as his Hibs teams played almost every mid week for months on end, without being as jaded was we were today!
Sorry Alan, I don't buy this three games in a week nonsense, we had just come back from having a week off for international games.
Although I like the management team, I despair when I hear such pathetic excuses and wonder how we can ever turn our players in to winners when such an inept performance can be explained away like this.
You are right. It is nonsense to blame tiredness especially at this level and as early in the season. God help us if we ever make it to the Champions League.
CorrieHibs
27-09-2015, 08:31 AM
We have a big enough squad. Anyone tired should of been dropped. Plus you don't get tired of winning. The players should of still being buzzing from Wednesday. Pathetic excuse Alan.
HUTCHYHIBBY
27-09-2015, 08:54 AM
Should HAVE.
Steve20
27-09-2015, 09:01 AM
His record against full time teams in this league is poor. He's running out of excuses. He deserves the whole season to see if he can get us up, but if he fails again, he simply has to go at the end of the season.
H18S NX
27-09-2015, 09:01 AM
Keep it real Alan,tiredness is no excuse,we got what we deserved yesterday,and why were you going to put Stanton on after 88 mins,absolutely crazy,you were found wanting yesterday,end of.
Andy74
27-09-2015, 09:23 AM
Tv dictated their kick off times, simple. Fatigue had nothing to do with the sitters that Boyle, Malonga, Henderson and Fontaine missed in the second half today.
What sitter did Malonga miss?
B.H.F.C
27-09-2015, 09:25 AM
What sitter did Malonga miss?
Free header from 6 yards. About two minutes after he came on.
Andy74
27-09-2015, 09:51 AM
Free header from 6 yards. About two minutes after he came on.
Not a sitter at all. The way the ball was floated over he was having to put the power into it. He wasn't running onto it as the had to check back when Stevenson laid it back for McGinn. It was at an angle wide of the goal so he could only really stand and put it straight.
A sitter is something you'd expect to go in nine times out of ten. Scoring from there wasn't as easy as that.
bigwheel
27-09-2015, 10:03 AM
Not a sitter at all. The way the ball was floated over he was having to put the power into it. He wasn't running onto it as the had to check back when Stevenson laid it back for McGinn. It was at an angle wide of the goal so he could only really stand and put it straight.
A sitter is something you'd expect to go in nine times out of ten. Scoring from there wasn't as easy as that.
Perhaps not a sitter - it was though a free header, 5 yards out and he managed to get enough power on it, but hit it straight at the keeper. Malonga will be disappointed he didn't score - decent chance.
B.H.F.C
27-09-2015, 10:13 AM
Not a sitter at all. The way the ball was floated over he was having to put the power into it. He wasn't running onto it as the had to check back when Stevenson laid it back for McGinn. It was at an angle wide of the goal so he could only really stand and put it straight.
A sitter is something you'd expect to go in nine times out of ten. Scoring from there wasn't as easy as that.
A free header from 6 yards with nobody remotely close to him constitutes a sitter for me. He could have brought it down if he wanted. If you want to win games you need to take chances like that.
Baldy Foghorn
27-09-2015, 02:29 PM
Free header from 6 yards. About two minutes after he came on.
I think he thought he was offside, therefore never gave it his all. No excuse mind you.
Andy74
27-09-2015, 02:37 PM
Perhaps not a sitter - it was though a free header, 5 yards out and he managed to get enough power on it, but hit it straight at the keeper. Malonga will be disappointed he didn't score - decent chance.
From that angle with no power on the cross just creating the power is about all you can do. He was outside the goal so very difficult to give that any direction to beat a goalkeeper.
S4uzee
27-09-2015, 02:45 PM
From that angle with no power on the cross just creating the power is about all you can do. He was outside the goal so very difficult to give that any direction to beat a goalkeeper.
Head it into the ground. He should've scored just admit it
Billy Whizz
27-09-2015, 02:46 PM
From that angle with no power on the cross just creating the power is about all you can do. He was outside the goal so very difficult to give that any direction to beat a goalkeeper.
I agree, also think he caused them more bother in his 20 mins or so, than the other attackers did in their time on the pitch
Andy74
27-09-2015, 03:10 PM
Head it into the ground. He should've scored just admit it
What difference would heading it into the ground have made from there? It wasn't a powerful cross to him standing centre of the goals. He doesn't have much to hit.
SaulGoodman
27-09-2015, 03:33 PM
Head it into the ground. He should've scored just admit it
If he headed it into the ground people would've complained about that as well :hilarious
B.H.F.C
27-09-2015, 03:35 PM
If he headed it into the ground people would've complained about that as well :hilarious
If he'd just scored nobody would have been complaining! Not that he was the only guilty one in the second half of course.
Ozyhibby
27-09-2015, 03:50 PM
If he'd just scored nobody would have been complaining! Not that he was the only guilty one in the second half of course.
Correct, Liam Henderson was the biggest offender. If Malonga had fluffed that chance who would be getting slaughtered.
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The_Horde
27-09-2015, 04:14 PM
From that angle with no power on the cross just creating the power is about all you can do. He was outside the goal so very difficult to give that any direction to beat a goalkeeper.
This. Unfortunately in creating the power it also gave away where he was heading it.
The real sitter was actually Boyle's chance IMO.
Correct, Liam Henderson was the biggest offender. If Malonga had fluffed that chance who would be getting slaughtered.
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There are some real on here who think they know everything when in fact they know FA about the game Shut TFU and let AS get on with his job
hibbybrian
27-09-2015, 04:23 PM
The TT's squad in 1972, granted, a great deal more talented, but it was also a great deal smaller than today's equivalent. That squad was able to cope with two games in a week, and back then the opposition really were hard and hard then is a world away from what what sides like Livingston & ST Mirren would be described as!
Sorry Alan, I don't buy this three games in a week nonsense, we had just come back from having a week off for international games.
Although I like the management team, I despair when I hear such pathetic excuses and wonder how we can ever turn our players in to winners when such an inept performance can be explained away like this.
I'm with you on this one Ray.
During August 1972 Hibs played 9 games winning 8 and losing 1 scoring 22 goals
During September 1972 Hibs played 8 games winning 7 and losing 1 scoring 21 goals
By the end of November 1972 Hibs had played 31 games winning 23, drawing 3 and losing 5, scoring 83 goals, and during this four month period, only 11 outfield players were used in the 31 consecutive games.:not worth
Whilst I don't expect the same results as the TT Team, excuses about playing only 3 games in close proximity are just that - excuses. :rolleyes:
:top marks
I'm with you on this one Ray.
During August 1972 Hibs played 9 games winning 8 and losing 1 scoring 22 goals
During September 1972 Hibs played 8 games winning 7 and losing 1 scoring 21 goals
By the end of November 1972 Hibs had played 31 games winning 23, drawing 3 and losing 5, scoring 83 goals, and during this four month period, only 11 outfield players were used in the 31 consecutive games.:not worth
Whilst I don't expect the same results as the TT Team, excuses about playing only 3 games in close proximity are just that - excuses. :rolleyes:
Correct at the moment we are just not good enough.
Hibbyradge
27-09-2015, 05:48 PM
The TT's squad in 1972, granted, a great deal more talented, but it was also a great deal smaller than today's equivalent. That squad was able to cope with two games in a week, and back then the opposition really were hard and hard then is a world away from what what sides like Livingston & ST Mirren would be described as!
Going by this and given the size of Hibs staff these days, I knew at the time Tom McNiven was superb, if modern players, on bowling green type pitches [by comparison] are jaded with three games in a week, given his resources, Tom must have rivalled JC as a miracle maker, as his Hibs teams played almost every mid week for months on end, without being as jaded was we were today!
Sorry Alan, I don't buy this three games in a week nonsense, we had just come back from having a week off for international games.
Although I like the management team, I despair when I hear such pathetic excuses and wonder how we can ever turn our players in to winners when such an inept performance can be explained away like this.
I think you'd be surprised at how often Hibs had disappointing results after playing in Europe during the week even under Turnbull.
We may have fared better when our opponents had also played midweek, but on Saturday, St Mirren were fresh against a Hibs team which had worked its socks off to beat the form team in the country.
I said before the game that tired legs would be an issue and I also called the result as a draw.
Every manager says that grueling midweek games affect their team's performance at the weekend, from Ferguson to Mourhino. They're not lying.
rcarter1
27-09-2015, 06:03 PM
There are some real on here who think they know everything when in fact they know FA about the game Shut TFU and let AS get on with his job
The only problem is that this is a football fans forum, where people air their views on these things. Your right that an average supporter doesn't know as much as a professional in the game. Nonetheless, supporters invest emotionally (and financially) in the club, and Id rather see people chew over things the way they see it on here, then boo or go radge at games. As for AS, he is in a very competitive, and potentially very lucrative profession. These jobs don't get handed to people by lottery. You earn the right by winning, by working out how to meet the expectations of the club you are managing, and then doing your best to exceed them. Its his prerogative to blame tiredness, or moan about packed defences, or whatever. Meanwhile, If Im chairman at an EPL club, and I look at Stubbs record, I think hmm. Early doors, lots still to learn, but he isn't yet meeting the supporters expectations with a budget miles beyond the competition - bar Rangers of course. Its AS career. If he wants to take responsibility and forget about the excuses, then great. If not, its a long way down for those who can only say 'its not my fault'.
coldingham hibs
27-09-2015, 06:41 PM
The only problem is that this is a football fans forum, where people air their views on these things. Your right that an average supporter doesn't know as much as a professional in the game. Nonetheless, supporters invest emotionally (and financially) in the club, and Id rather see people chew over things the way they see it on here, then boo or go radge at games. As for AS, he is in a very competitive, and potentially very lucrative profession. These jobs don't get handed to people by lottery. You earn the right by winning, by working out how to meet the expectations of the club you are managing, and then doing your best to exceed them. Its his prerogative to blame tiredness, or moan about packed defences, or whatever. Meanwhile, If Im chairman at an EPL club, and I look at Stubbs record, I think hmm. Early doors, lots still to learn, but he isn't yet meeting the supporters expectations with a budget miles beyond the competition - bar Rangers of course. Its AS career. If he wants to take responsibility and forget about the excuses, then great. If not, its a long way down for those who can only say 'its not my fault'.
100% Correct.
100% Correct.
Never at any time has AS said its not his fault At the same time a manager can only do and say so much At the end of the day it is down to the players
Ozyhibby
27-09-2015, 09:16 PM
Never at any time has AS said its not his fault At the same time a manager can only do and say so much At the end of the day it is down to the players
Buck stops with the manager. It's up to him to get them playing. He has to find a way of getting us scoring goals or the pressure on him will increase.
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Eyrie
27-09-2015, 10:38 PM
Never at any time has AS said its not his fault At the same time a manager can only do and say so much At the end of the day it is down to the players
But the players have to use the tactics that the manager instructs them to use. What do the players do if those tactics aren't working?
I think you'd be surprised at how often Hibs had disappointing results after playing in Europe during the week even under Turnbull.
We may have fared better when our opponents had also played midweek, but on Saturday, St Mirren were fresh against a Hibs team which had worked its socks off to beat the form team in the country.
I said before the game that tired legs would be an issue and I also called the result as a draw.
Every manager says that grueling midweek games affect their team's performance at the weekend, from Ferguson to Mourhino. They're not lying.
Dave without going to the record books, the most gruelling period that I have known for a Hibs team was in season 72-3, where we played in three cup competitions during the first half of the season, this meant that we were playing in most, if not all, mid-weeks.
This went on right from the very beginning of the season, as we started off on the Saturday, when we scored four against Montrose [I think it was], we followed this up by skelping the new Cup Winners Cup holders, rangers, 3-0 in the mid-week game and then ended the first eight days of the season, by putting five past Celtic, including extra time, on the renowned energy sapping pitch at Hampden.
Hibs continued this mid-week ritual right through to December, by which time we had two more successful Hampden appearances [one of them a mid-week semi] as well as being through to the Cup Winners Cup quarter final.
During this period, we played 12 games in the league cup alone, with a majority of them being played mid-week.
With regard to the mid-week "hangover effect", it doesn't seem to have had an affect, as Celtic, who had the same sort of schedule as we had, were the only team that were above us in the league, as December came to a close, things were that tight at the top, that our famous win the following day, put us in that top position.
Given that we had been playing practically every mid-week, our Saturday league performances couldn't have been too shabby, given our position in the league. Our cup record was far from shabby as well, as we had won the two competitions that had been completed and we were through to the, March quarter finals, in the other one.
We achieved all of the above with a wafer thin squad [which was our downfall in the end] and even although it was usually the same 11 players who played in all the games, jaded was a word never used.
number9dream
28-09-2015, 07:28 AM
If Stubbs was concerned with fatigue why did he not address it?
Malonga could have started and the toiling Henderson & McGinn should have been replaced at HT (Carmichael & Stanton).
I might have been tempted to replace Fontaine with McGregor too - simply on form.
DH1875
28-09-2015, 07:32 AM
How many teams in this league are part time? Should ask their players about fatigue.
BoomtownHibees
28-09-2015, 07:43 AM
If Stubbs was concerned with fatigue why did he not address it?
Malonga could have started and the toiling Henderson & McGinn should have been replaced at HT (Carmichael & Stanton).
I might have been tempted to replace Fontaine with McGregor too - simply on form.
Is that the same Fontaine who was MOTM against Aberdeen?
Smartie
28-09-2015, 07:56 AM
We have a big squad and plenty of fitness coaches.
There is no way that we should be caught out by having to play 3 matches in a week - once.
If this is really the case and the reason we lost then Stubbs should be looking to hide this rather than highlight it because it is his responsibility to rotate his squad and adjust training schedules accordingly rather than make excuses.
Arch Stanton
28-09-2015, 08:13 AM
How many teams in this league are part time? Should ask their players about fatigue.
"Should ask their players about fatigue." - why?
The only people mentioning tiredness and fatigue are the ones griping about AS. He certainly didn't mention it and there was certainly no sign of tiredness or fatigue on Saturday - absolutely no shortage of effort whatsoever! Being jaded is not the same thing and was very obvious, especially against a team who were so ultra negative.
He said there was a lack of zip and sparkle and that was there for all to see as well. McGinn was the most obvious example as he was all over the pitch like a rash but was putting in wayward passes left right and centre.
After Wednesday's fantastic show it is no surprise to me that Aberdeen lost and we drew on Saturday. The notion that one game is the same as every other game is rubbish IMO.
Brightside
28-09-2015, 08:25 AM
I've been away a few days but its nice to see that from Wednesday and Stubbs being a tactical genius, he's now not good enough and some are calling for his head. Unreal.net.
Hibbyradge
28-09-2015, 08:31 AM
Dave without going to the record books, the most gruelling period that I have known for a Hibs team was in season 72-3, where we played in three cup competitions during the first half of the season, this meant that we were playing most, if not all, mid-week games.
This went on right from the very beginning of the season, as we started off on the Saturday, when we scored four against Montrose [I think it was], we followed this up by skelping the new Cup Winners Cup holders, rangers, 3-0 in the mid-week game and then ended the first eight days of the season, by putting five past Celtic, including extra time, on the renowned energy sapping pitch at Hampden.
Hibs continued this mid-week ritual right through to December, by which time we had two more successful Hampden appearances [one of them a mid-week semi] as well as being through to the Cup Winners Cup quarter final.
During this period, we played 12 games in the league cup alone, with a majority of them being played mid-week.
With regard to the mid-week "hangover effect", it doesn't seem to have had an affect, as Celtic, who had the same sort of schedule as we had, were the only team that were above us in the league, as December came to a close, things were that tight at the top, that our famous win the following day put us in that top position.
Given that we had been playing practically every mid-week, our Saturday league performances couldn't have been too shabby, given our position in the league. Our cup record was far from shabby as well, as we had won the two competitions that had been completed and we were through to march quarter finals, in the other one.
We achieved all of the above with a wafer thin squad [which was our downfall in the end] and even although it was usually the same 11 players who played in all the games, jaded was a word never used.
That was an exceptionally good Hibs side, generally playing against much weaker opposition.
None of those teams were top of the division above us, like Aberdeen were and it was a leviathan performance. And, let's fact it, although St Mirren have had a poor start to the season, they're no mugs and will be battling us for a play off place.
However, to use your example, when we played Hadjuk Split in 73, for example, we could only draw with Killie and we lost to Rangers on the following Saturdays. We also lost to East Fife following our first game against Sporting Lisbon. The word "jaded" may not have been used, but it would have been relevant. Football then was probably too macho to admit something like that though. Or maybe they didn't understand the demands on their bodies as well as their minds.
The intensity of football today is much greater than it was 40 years ago, recovery time is necessarily longer and most games are won on the margins.
The world's top coaches all know that there is an advantage to the team with the most rested players. People like Arsene wenger, Roberto Mancini and Jurgen Klopp (among others) have all suggested that their players had suffered from mental and/or physical fatigue after poor weekend results. There is money to be made by backing against teams who have had a midweek game in Europe and betting sites advise their members to expect a reduction of team performance when they play on the weekend after a European game..
I suspect we're going to need to agree to disagree on this, which is fair enough. I'm just waiting on someone using the argument that they used to play 2 eleven a side games on a Saturday followed by 2 eleven a side games on a Sunday, and still have enough energy for a game of long bangers after tea! :greengrin
I'm going to wait and see what Leann says in her e-mail this week before making comment on AS and the St. Mirren game. :wink: :greengrin
JimBHibees
28-09-2015, 08:52 AM
I've been away a few days but its nice to see that from Wednesday and Stubbs being a tactical genius, he's now not good enough and some are calling for his head. Unreal.net.
Your not wrong, knee jerk.net :greengrin
That was an exceptionally good Hibs side, generally playing against much weaker opposition.
None of those teams were top of the division above us, like Aberdeen were and it was a leviathan performance. And, let's fact it, although St Mirren have had a poor start to the season, they're no mugs and will be battling us for a play off place.
However, to use your example, when we played Hadjuk Split in 73, for example, we could only draw with Killie and we lost to Rangers on the following Saturdays. We also lost to East Fife following our first game against Sporting Lisbon. The word "jaded" may not have been used, but it would have been relevant. Football then was probably too macho to admit something like that though. Or maybe they didn't understand the demands on their bodies as well as their minds.
The intensity of football today is much greater than it was 40 years ago, recovery time is necessarily longer and most games are won on the margins.
The world's top coaches all know that there is an advantage to the team with the most rested players. People like Arsene wenger, Roberto Mancini and Jurgen Klopp (among others) have all suggested that their players had suffered from mental and/or physical fatigue after poor weekend results. There is money to be made by backing against teams who have had a midweek game in Europe and betting sites advise their members to expect a reduction of team performance when they play on the weekend after a European game..
I suspect we're going to need to agree to disagree on this, which is fair enough. I'm just waiting on someone using the argument that they used to play 2 eleven a side games on a Saturday followed by 2 eleven a side games on a Sunday, and still have enough energy for a game of long bangers after tea! :greengrin
Dave, I'm sorry to disagree, but I'm sure Hibs played and beat, East Fife, on league business, twice that season, both games 1-0, Alan Gordon being the scorer both games. The home fixture, as I'm sure you are aware, was the infamous game that is where John Brownlie broke his leg and Alex Edwards got the booking that led to his 10 game ban and Pat Stanton was also banned following his booking in the same fixture.
The Saturday games following both Sporting legs, resulted in Hibs victory's [East Fife & ST Johnstone]. When the draw was made, Sporting were big favourites to progress to the next round and therefore size of the effort Hibs made to achieve that 6-1 result, could also be measured in leviathan proportions. Even the Saturday match, following the game in difficult to reach, Albania, against Besa, Hibs won 3-0 at Cappielow.
The games against Hadjuk Split were in March 1973, when our aforementioned paper thin squad, had already been badly weakened by injury and suspension.
I would suggest the longer recovery time those top coaches are talking about are when their teams go weeks on end playing two games a week and not a one off, as was the case with Hibs.
I agree, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree :greengrin:thumbsup:
silverhibee
28-09-2015, 09:48 AM
There are some real on here who think they know everything when in fact they know FA about the game Shut TFU and let AS get on with his job
Charming
silverhibee
28-09-2015, 09:50 AM
The only problem is that this is a football fans forum, where people air their views on these things. Your right that an average supporter doesn't know as much as a professional in the game. Nonetheless, supporters invest emotionally (and financially) in the club, and Id rather see people chew over things the way they see it on here, then boo or go radge at games. As for AS, he is in a very competitive, and potentially very lucrative profession. These jobs don't get handed to people by lottery. You earn the right by winning, by working out how to meet the expectations of the club you are managing, and then doing your best to exceed them. Its his prerogative to blame tiredness, or moan about packed defences, or whatever. Meanwhile, If Im chairman at an EPL club, and I look at Stubbs record, I think hmm. Early doors, lots still to learn, but he isn't yet meeting the supporters expectations with a budget miles beyond the competition - bar Rangers of course. Its AS career. If he wants to take responsibility and forget about the excuses, then great. If not, its a long way down for those who can only say 'its not my fault'.
Beat me to it. :greengrin
Spot on.
Hibbyradge
28-09-2015, 10:02 AM
Dave, I'm sorry to disagree, but I'm sure Hibs played and beat, East Fife, on league business, twice that season, both games 1-0, Alan Gordon being the scorer both games. The home fixture, as I'm sure you are aware, was the infamous game that is where John Brownlie broke his leg and Alex Edwards got the booking that led to his 10 game ban and Pat Stanton was also banned following his booking in the same fixture.
The Saturd
I agree, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree :greengrin:thumbsup:
Yes, you're correct on all those counts. :greengrin
jacomo
28-09-2015, 11:16 AM
We have a big squad and plenty of fitness coaches.
There is no way that we should be caught out by having to play 3 matches in a week - once.
If this is really the case and the reason we lost then Stubbs should be looking to hide this rather than highlight it because it is his responsibility to rotate his squad and adjust training schedules accordingly rather than make excuses.
:agree:
I'm a big fan of Stubbs but we have a big enough squad to cope, surely?
Not buying this excuse at all.
Sir David Gray
28-09-2015, 11:20 AM
How many teams in this league are part time? Should ask their players about fatigue.
Dumbarton and Alloa are part time, the rest are full time.
DH1875
28-09-2015, 11:28 AM
Dumbarton and Alloa are part time, the rest are full time.
Are all the players at Dumbarton part time? I look at their squad and dont think they all can be.
McSwanky
28-09-2015, 12:50 PM
I'm getting a bit tired of this "3 games in a week" spin.
Following that logic, we normally play 2 games in a week. But we don't really, do we? We play one game a week. Usually on a Saturday.
It's one extra game on a Wednesday. That's what it is. 90 minutes on top of the usual weekly 90. An hour and a half. Surely the Scottish Championship/League Cup can't be that bad that an extra hour and a half midweek results in your performance dropping so badly at the weekend?
FranckSuzy
28-09-2015, 12:57 PM
If the current squad can't cope with a midweek game then maybe we should be re-evaluating the benefit (and expense) of fitness/conditioning coaches, sport scientists, nutritionists, etc, etc :wink:
flash
28-09-2015, 01:02 PM
On Wednesday this forum loved the manager and the players. Yesterday the manager was on borrowed time and half the team simply aren't up to it.
Bipolar to say the least.
matty_f
28-09-2015, 01:03 PM
On Wednesday this forum loved the manager and the players. Yesterday the manager was on borrowed time and half the team simply aren't up to it.
Bipolar to say the least.
:agree:
McSwanky
28-09-2015, 01:10 PM
On Wednesday this forum loved the manager and the players. Yesterday the manager was on borrowed time and half the team simply aren't up to it.
Bipolar to say the least.
Over 11000 users on the site. I've never seen such a large group of people be described as 'bipolar' before.
Has it occurred to you that it might be different people forming the two different opinions?
Smartie
28-09-2015, 01:16 PM
On Wednesday this forum loved the manager and the players. Yesterday the manager was on borrowed time and half the team simply aren't up to it.
Bipolar to say the least.
It's harsh to say bi-polar.
"Fine margins" is what it comes down to for me.
He got it spot on and deserved all of the plaudits that came his way on Wednesday.
If Stevenson's sliced cross goes 3 inches left and in then we've got the 3 points putting more pressure on The Rangers going into Sunday's game then he gets away with it on Saturday and again deserves praise.
We need to win EVERY WEEK and when that doesn't happen then questions will (rightly) be asked and fingers pointed, particularly when in doing so we have shown frailties that we've shown for some time.
Hibbyradge
28-09-2015, 01:50 PM
I'm getting a bit tired of this "3 games in a week" spin.
Following that logic, we normally play 2 games in a week. But we don't really, do we? We play one game a week. Usually on a Saturday.
It's one extra game on a Wednesday. That's what it is. 90 minutes on top of the usual weekly 90. An hour and a half. Surely the Scottish Championship/League Cup can't be that bad that an extra hour and a half midweek results in your performance dropping so badly at the weekend?
Our performance didn't drop "so badly", though.
We outplayed St Mirren, but just couldn't break their 8 man defence down.
Stubbs reckons we lost a bit of edge because the players' legs hadn't recovered 100% from a very tough, and successful, game against the team at the top of the league above us.
That sounds perfectly plausible to me.
dangermouse
28-09-2015, 02:16 PM
Our performance didn't drop "so badly", though.
We outplayed St Mirren, but just couldn't break their 8 man defence down.
Stubbs reckons we lost a bit of edge because the players' legs hadn't recovered 100% from a very tough, and successful, game against the team at the top of the league above us.
That sounds perfectly plausible to me.
Something my son and I were talking about after the game. We both thought, prior to kick off, that St Mirren would "have a go" as they are after all one of the bigger teams in the division. We both couldn't understand then why they parked the bus? They never did that when we were both in the top league so why now?
Baldy Foghorn
28-09-2015, 02:54 PM
On Wednesday this forum loved the manager and the players. Yesterday the manager was on borrowed time and half the team simply aren't up to it.
Bipolar to say the least.
The fickleness of football in full flow......
Wednesday we were magic, draw on Saturday and AS role is being questioned, utter madness..........
JimBHibees
28-09-2015, 03:18 PM
Our performance didn't drop "so badly", though.
We outplayed St Mirren, but just couldn't break their 8 man defence down.
Stubbs reckons we lost a bit of edge because the players' legs hadn't recovered 100% from a very tough, and successful, game against the team at the top of the league above us.
That sounds perfectly plausible to me.
Agree completely you also have to take into account alot of the players are young also.
Disappointing but these things happen.
The fickleness of football in full flow......
Wednesday we were magic, draw on Saturday and AS role is being questioned, utter madness..........
The Hibs fans were quick enough to criticise the media for stating that rangers would walk this division. So far they have been proved right, with so little of the season gone, our challenge has descended to that of a whimper.
With the season ticket sales, crowds [although low by our standards] and HSL, Hibs budget and resources,Rangers apart, are far superior than every other team in the division and as such, our league results should be better than they have been so far.
I think the additional level criticism attracted to this particular result, has been caused by the managers statement. To win any league you need a winning mentality and I don't believe for a minute, making tame excuses for the players, will help them gain that needed winning mentality.
Another reason I question Alan Stubbs judgement, to blame the poor performance on being jaded, is that this was always going to get a poor reaction from the fans, simply because breaking down teams, who sit in, is not a new problem to this Hibs team.
Even although I believe he was wrong on two counts, with the statement he gave, I still hope he is our manager for years to come, but that will only happen if he learns from his mistakes.
McSwanky
28-09-2015, 09:45 PM
Our performance didn't drop "so badly", though.
We outplayed St Mirren, but just couldn't break their 8 man defence down.
Stubbs reckons we lost a bit of edge because the players' legs hadn't recovered 100% from a very tough, and successful, game against the team at the top of the league above us.
That sounds perfectly plausible to me.
Fair dos. Sounds plausible to me too. But how many times have we seen Stubbs's Hibs either stutter over the line by a single goal, or draw or lose after 'outplaying' a supposedly inferior team? Is there always an excuse other than 'we just don't score enough goals?'
Hibbyradge
28-09-2015, 09:54 PM
Fair dos. Sounds plausible to me too. But how many times have we seen Stubbs's Hibs either stutter over the line by a single goal, or draw or lose after 'outplaying' a supposedly inferior team? Is there always an excuse other than 'we just don't score enough goals?'
It's the soundtrack of my life!
Thanks for your generous concession, by the way.
Jones28
29-09-2015, 06:51 AM
Something my son and I were talking about after the game. We both thought, prior to kick off, that St Mirren would "have a go" as they are after all one of the bigger teams in the division. We both couldn't understand then why they parked the bus? They never did that when we were both in the top league so why now?
Teams now know that's how Hibs don't win games. Park the bus, they can't break teams down and try and hit on the counter for a smash and grab. Teams are only playing this way because it worked all season last season.
McSwanky
29-09-2015, 07:45 AM
Thanks for your generous concession, by the way.
You are so annoying! :wink:
Ronniekirk
29-09-2015, 07:53 AM
Something my son and I were talking about after the game. We both thought, prior to kick off, that St Mirren would "have a go" as they are after all one of the bigger teams in the division. We both couldn't understand then why they parked the bus? They never did that when we were both in the top league so why now?
Was at there game at home to Raith . They were shambolic in first half ,but the better team in the second half and had a go ,and lost the game ,so no surprise to me they played that way , and played for the point ,as they need every point they can get just now to avoid getting stuck in bottom five
Hibbyradge
29-09-2015, 09:33 AM
You are so annoying! :wink:
:hilarious
I was genuinely thanking you.
That rarely happens on here.
Once folk adopt a position, they tend to defend it in the face of any and every argument, so I noticed and appreciated your concession.
I'm sorry if my reply came across in the wrong way.
As a token of my good will, to reciprocate, I'll concede that I can, on rare occasions, be annoying. :thumbsup:
We beat Aberdeen on wednesday because they opened up and had a go at us, leaving space for our better players and allow the tactics to work, when teams park the bus we still struggle to break the down and it's all down to the tactics used. This isn't an isolated incident, last season when teams such as Hearts, Rangers etc had a go we had very good records against them but how many dropped points did we have when we face d 10 men behind the ball, AS still hasn't been able to work that out this year but last season and now this, Hears and Rangers have.
rcarter1
29-09-2015, 12:29 PM
The Hibs fans were quick enough to criticise the media for stating that rangers would walk this division. So far they have been proved right, with so little of the season gone, our challenge has descended to that of a whimper.
With the season ticket sales, crowds [although low by our standards] and HSL, Hibs budget and resources,Rangers apart, are far superior than every other team in the division and as such, our league results should be better than they have been so far.
I think the additional level criticism attracted to this particular result, has been caused by the managers statement. To win any league you need a winning mentality and I don't believe for a minute, making tame excuses for the players, will help them gain that needed winning mentality.
Another reason I question Alan Stubbs judgement, to blame the poor performance on being jaded, is that this was always going to get a poor reaction from the fans, simply because breaking down teams, who sit in, is not a new problem to this Hibs team.
Even although I believe he was wrong on two counts, with the statement he gave, I still hope he is our manager for years to come, but that will only happen if he learns from his mistakes.
I would suspect Mourinho, Fergason, Guardiola had to learn from some mistakes in their early careers (and even still now..). Stubbs often looks hunted in the interviews. If its the pressure of the job, then he needs to somehow put this whole thing into perspective. Football comes with grief from all angles. Take the useful feedback, accept that 1.1 years in to this career, you aren't a finished article as a manager, and do your best to ignore the emotional side of it. Cool under pressure wins the day more often then not.
And then work out how to put 5 past these part time teams! :greengrin
I would suspect Mourinho, Fergisson, Guardiola had to learn from souke in their early careers (and even still now..). Stubbs often looks hunted in the interviews. If its the pressure of the job, then he needs to somehow put this whole thing into perspective. Football comes with grief from all angles. Take the useful feedback, accept that 1.1 years in to this career, you aren't a finished article as a manager, and do your best to ignore the emotional side of it. Cool under pressure wins the day more often then not.
And then work out how to put 5 past these part time teams! :greengrin
In a way I think you hit the nail on the head, Stubbs is early in his career and learning, unfortunately from hibs point of view he is learning at ER and making his mistakes at ER. Later in his career another club will benefit.
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