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emerald green
22-09-2015, 08:21 PM
Probably no surprise after the public criticism from Mourinho.

Sir David Gray
22-09-2015, 08:26 PM
Good on her for not accepting the bullying tactics employed by Mourinho.

Disgraceful behaviour by him and I hope she takes Chelsea to the cleaners as I understand she's seeking legal advice.

easty
22-09-2015, 08:29 PM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.

Sir David Gray
22-09-2015, 08:41 PM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.

She was, and still is, a medical professional with a duty of care to the players on the pitch. She went onto the pitch to tend to a supposedly injured player, which is what she was paid to do, and she was slated by Mourinho, not just privately but also in public.

It's not for Mourinho to make the call about who is and isn't injured, his job is to coach the team and help them win football matches, it's not to decide when a player needs medical treatment and when he doesn't.

And perhaps if he feels that Eden Hazard had gone down when he wasn't actually injured, he should be having a word with him about time wasting and feigning injury instead of having a go at the club doctor for doing her job.

Lago
22-09-2015, 08:45 PM
She was, and still is, a medical professional with a duty of care to the players on the pitch. She went onto the pitch to tend to a supposedly injured player, which is what she was paid to do, and she was slated by Mourinho, not just privately but also in public.

It's not for Mourinho to make the call about who is and isn't injured, his job is to coach the team and help them win football matches, it's not to decide when a player needs medical treatment and when he doesn't.

And perhaps if he feels that Eden Hazard had gone down when he wasn't actually injured, he should be having a word with him about time wasting and feigning injury instead of having a go at the club doctor for doing her job.
Ref called her on, now taking legal advice. Compo claim on its way I think.

emerald green
22-09-2015, 08:47 PM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.

Good managers don't criticise their staff in public. That's basic stuff.

Chelsea asked Carneiro to return to work, but she has decided not to and is now considering her legal position. I would say it's because of that legal advice, and nowt to do with the press.

easty
22-09-2015, 08:47 PM
She was, and still is, a medical professional with a duty of care to the players on the pitch. She went onto the pitch to tend to a supposedly injured player, which is what she was paid to do, and she was slated by Mourinho, not just privately but also in public.

It's not for Mourinho to make the call about who is and isn't injured, his job is to coach the team and help them win football matches, it's not to decide when a player needs medical treatment and when he doesn't.

And perhaps if he feels that Eden Hazard had gone down when he wasn't actually injured, he should be having a word with him about time wasting and feigning injury instead of having a go at the club doctor for doing her job.

The press seen it unfold, Mourinho was clearly raging at the time, and he was asked about it....a lot. Why should he say he wasn't pissed off?

Players go down all the time, not necessarily faking it, but not needing treatment either. And that was the case with Hazard in this instance. As a medical professional, and as someone involved in top level football, she should - and no doubt does - know this.

All the crap with her thanking the fans for 'thier support during this tough period', on instagram or whatever, was ridiculous. She perpetuated it.

Biggie
22-09-2015, 08:49 PM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.

Yeah but easty, do you think he would have made such a fuss if the doctor was a bloke ?
I got the impression he was playing to the masses and saying "look this bloody woman doesn't understand football" ? Look at me I'm chastising her......

easty
22-09-2015, 08:49 PM
Good managers don't criticise their staff in public. That's basic stuff.

Chelsea asked Carneiro to return to work, but she has decided not to and is now considering her legal position. I would say it's because of that legal advice, and nowt to do with the press.

He'd already done it, without saying a word to the press. They all saw him raging at her.

Just because she's had legal advice, doesn't mean it's good advice.

BoomtownHibees
22-09-2015, 08:50 PM
The press seen it unfold, Mourinho was clearly raging at the time, and he was asked about it....a lot. Why should he say he wasn't pissed off?

Players go down all the time, not necessarily faking it, but not needing treatment either. And that was the case with Hazard in this instance. As a medical professional, and as someone involved in top level football, she should - and no doubt does - know this.

All the crap with her thanking the fans for 'thier support during this tough period', on instagram or whatever, was ridiculous. She perpetuated it.

Hazard asked the ref to allow her on for treatment. She can't then make a judgement from the side of the pitch to say "na I'm just going to stay here thanks"

easty
22-09-2015, 08:51 PM
Yeah but easty, do you think he would have made such a fuss if the doctor was a bloke ?
I got the impression he was playing to the masses and saying "look this bloody woman doesn't understand football" ? Look at me I'm chastising her......

I think he would have kicked off just as much if it had been a guy, yeah. But, the press wouldn't have jumped all over it straight afterwards, and he wouldn't have been asked half as many questions about it. It'd all have blown over by now.

HoboHarry
22-09-2015, 09:02 PM
Sign her up at Hibs. That would sell 3000 season tickets :)

brog
22-09-2015, 09:06 PM
Everything Mourinho does is calculated & he plays the media for all that it's worth. In this case he got it badly wrong & its rebounded on him & his club.

JimBHibees
22-09-2015, 09:08 PM
Everything Mourinho does is calculated & he plays the media for all that it's worth. In this case he got it badly wrong & its rebounded on him & his club.

Agree totally absolutely despicable behaviour by the biggest ego on the planet.

emerald green
22-09-2015, 09:09 PM
He'd already done it, without saying a word to the press. They all saw him raging at her.

Just because she's had legal advice, doesn't mean it's good advice.

So that makes it OK then? She was only trying to do her job was she not? As far as I'm aware, Mourinho then continued his criticism at subsequent press conferences until he started losing the rag because the press kept asking him about the matter.

Usually, when people seek legal advice it's for a good reason. The FA is looking into a complaint that Mourinho used abusive or sexist language towards Carneiro. Whether he did or not I don't know. Time will tell.

Mikey09
22-09-2015, 09:15 PM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.


Big deal?! She has lost her job through no fault of her own. Mourinho has acted like an utter fud in this and it would make no difference whatsoever if it had been a bloke. No doubt he is a very good manager but he needs to wind his neck in and actually get his team winning. His antics are boring now.

Hiber-nation
22-09-2015, 09:20 PM
Everything Mourinho does is calculated & he plays the media for all that it's worth. In this case he got it badly wrong & its rebounded on him & his club.

Spot on. The man is an arrogant bully and a serial bore yet the media still pander to him.

Baader
22-09-2015, 10:14 PM
Poor stuff from Mourinho - seems there's always something he provides to distract the media when Chelsea have a bad time. Sadly too many fall for his cowardly antics.

No medical professional deserves to be criticised in public purely for trying to do their job. Expect no less from Chelsea though, pretty vile club.

FranckSuzy
22-09-2015, 10:22 PM
Any doctor/medical professional has their own regulatory body to adhere to, not a manager's say so. Therefore, IMHO, she has done nothing wrong and he's just peed off at not having the final say.

ScottB
22-09-2015, 10:24 PM
I would imagine that, in medical matters, the Doctors authority would, or should, overrule anybody else present. She's in her place on the bench, the player has requested her assistance, why on earth would she not come on? If she hadn't and the player had been injured, what then?

As others have said, if Hazard wasn't really injured, what's he doing asking for medical help? That's who Jose should be mouthing off at.

In the current climate, with how sport deals with injury is coming under scrutiny, Mourinho probably couldn't have picked a worse time to pick a pointless fight with his club Doctor.

Shrekko
22-09-2015, 10:30 PM
I was bored of Mourinho years ago but his behaviour here has been absolutely despicable. I'm not so sure that the fact she's female really has much to do with it being such a big story. I can only guess that there was a build up to this as even by his own standards his comments and behaviour are absolutely ridiculous and irrational. When you look at the footage again today, Hazard is clearly making out he's pretty badly hurt when she's attending to him so if he thinks he wasn't and it cost the team when he went off, he's angry at the wrong person. The public dressing down he gave her was disgusting as were his after match comments.

GreenLake
23-09-2015, 12:58 AM
He over reacted and should have dealt with it differently. However, these outbursts are part of his nature and we could do with a few more like him willing to go balls to the wall. Punish them when they deserve it for sure, and I expect he might face that down the road on this issue. He wont lose any money, not that it would hurt him anyway, but he will face a bit of public judgement.

I doubt he will ever admit it, but I bet he regrets blurting out against her now.

Bostonhibby
23-09-2015, 07:03 AM
Everything Mourinho does is calculated & he plays the media for all that it's worth. In this case he got it badly wrong & its rebounded on him & his club.
Yep, they'll be getting the cheque book out very soon to get this one out of the way. Senior figure made it impossible for an employee to do their job properly and created a stressful workplace atmosphere. Slam dunk for a decent employment lawyer, and then there's all that lovely media cash unless they buy her silence at a premium.

greenginger
23-09-2015, 07:34 AM
Yep, they'll be getting the cheque book out very soon to get this one out of the way. Senior figure made it impossible for an employee to do their job properly and created a stressful workplace atmosphere. Slam dunk for a decent employment lawyer, and then there's all that lovely media cash unless they buy her silence at a premium.


And probably put female participation in top level football back 20 years.

easty
23-09-2015, 07:41 AM
Big deal?! She has lost her job through no fault of her own. Mourinho has acted like an utter fud in this and it would make no difference whatsoever if it had been a bloke. No doubt he is a very good manager but he needs to wind his neck in and actually get his team winning. His antics are boring now.

She lost her job because she decided not to go back.

Scouse Hibee
23-09-2015, 07:42 AM
Big deal?! She has lost her job through no fault of her own. Mourinho has acted like an utter fud in this and it would make no difference whatsoever if it had been a bloke. No doubt he is a very good manager but he needs to wind his neck in and actually get his team winning. His antics are boring now.



:top marksHis antics are becoming tiresome, he has made a fool of himself over this situation, if he had big enough balls to admit he was wrong then this would be a non story and everything would have resumed as normal. Instead he once again chose to tackle the situation in his own embarrassing style and deserves the fallout he has created.

Colr
23-09-2015, 07:45 AM
This was all blown way out of proportion in my opinion. If she wasn't a women it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal, and it's because of the press.

She was part of the Chelsea staff, so worked for Mourinho, and she didn't do what he wanted, so he was pissed off. Big deal.

Both her and her male counterpart were treated the same (which I thought was pretty lousy management from Moronho but he is a supreme asshole).

It would not have been an issue for the press had she not been female and passably attractive. It sells papers.

easty
23-09-2015, 07:48 AM
Both her and her male counterpart were treated the same (which I thought was pretty lousy management from Moronho but he is a supreme asshole).

It would not have been an issue for the press had she not been female and passably attractive. It sells papers.

Exactly.

Speedy
23-09-2015, 07:48 AM
I was bored of Mourinho years ago but his behaviour here has been absolutely despicable. I'm not so sure that the fact she's female really has much to do with it being such a big story. I can only guess that there was a build up to this as even by his own standards his comments and behaviour are absolutely ridiculous and irrational. When you look at the footage again today, Hazard is clearly making out he's pretty badly hurt when she's attending to him so if he thinks he wasn't and it cost the team when he went off, he's angry at the wrong person. The public dressing down he gave her was disgusting as were his after match comments.

It 100% does. The fact a male physio was downgraded without even a mention on this thread (and comparatively very little in the media) strongly suggests that is the case.

Speedy
23-09-2015, 07:49 AM
Both her and her male counterpart were treated the same (which I thought was pretty lousy management from Moronho but he is a supreme asshole).

It would not have been an issue for the press had she not been female and passably attractive. It sells papers.

Beat me to it.

TrinityHibs
23-09-2015, 08:16 AM
She lost her job because she decided not to go back.

to work with a bully who had demoted her for no justifiable reason and publically humiliated her by calling into question her ability to do her job. Just finished it for you there Easty.

There is also the yet to be determined abusive/sexual insults. The man's a tool

JimBHibees
23-09-2015, 08:35 AM
to work with a bully who had demoted her for no justifiable reason and publically humiliated her by calling into question her ability to do her job. Just finished it for you there Easty.

There is also the yet to be determined abusive/sexual insults. The man's a tool

Agree completely while the fact she is female probably raised the profile of the story especially with the red tops it would have been a story anyway with the medical staff being publically criticised and then removed for the next game. Medical and Football organisations have since the case questioned Mourinho's actions and comments.

The bottom line is though they did absolutely nothing wrong as they would only go onto the pitch when the ref told them to do so at the request of the player. Mourinho was wrong at the time then compounded the initial error by his actions since.

easty
23-09-2015, 08:41 AM
to work with a bully who had demoted her for no justifiable reason and publically humiliated her by calling into question her ability to do her job. Just finished it for you there Easty.

There is also the yet to be determined abusive/sexual insults. The man's a tool

Just because you say there was no justifiable reason, that doesn't make it so. Mourinho said that they wouldn't be on the bench for the next game, but that didn't mean they wouldn't be in the future. That's what he said.

Also from what I've read of it he called her - what literally translates as - 'daughter of a whore' in Portugese, but that's said to be the equivalent of calling someone a 'son of a bitch'. If we're picking folk up for using language like that in football, then there's going to be a hell of a lot of people getting pulled up. Or does it only count as abuse if it's to a female?

Keith_M
23-09-2015, 08:48 AM
Both her and her male counterpart were treated the same (which I thought was pretty lousy management from Moronho but he is a supreme asshole).

It would not have been an issue for the press had she not been female and passably attractive. It sells papers.


Let's just assume that's true (and I agree it's quite possible)... What relevance has it to the situation?


She followed the instructions of the Ref to attend to a player who appeared to be injured. She was treated very badly by a bully while doing her job, more than once being publicly ridiculed.

The facts do not change just because it WAS reported, so surely people are entitled to give their opinions on it.

Mikey09
23-09-2015, 09:00 AM
Just because you say there was no justifiable reason, that doesn't make it so. Mourinho said that they wouldn't be on the bench for the next game, but that didn't mean they wouldn't be in the future. That's what he said.

Also from what I've read of it he called her - what literally translates as - 'daughter of a whore' in Portugese, but that's said to be the equivalent of calling someone a 'son of a bitch'. If we're picking folk up for using language like that in football, then there's going to be a hell of a lot of people getting pulled up. Or does it only count as abuse if it's to a female?


You're clutching at straws mate!! And so will Mourinho be when she hopefully takes him AND Chelsea to the cleaners. If my wife was being treated like that at her work by an egotistical, arrogant bully, who thinks he's untouchable I'd go in and give him a slap round the puss. She was waved onto the park by the match official... Imagine the bother she'd be in if she'd ignored him and something unthinkable had happened to Hazard?! Do you think Mourinho would have accepted responsibility?! I think we all know the answer to that one....

easty
23-09-2015, 09:00 AM
Let's just assume that's true (and I agree it's quite possible)... What relevance has it to the situation?


She followed the instructions of the Ref to attend to a player who appeared to be injured. She was treated very badly by a bully while doing her job, more than once being publicly ridiculed.

The facts do not change just because it WAS reported, so surely people are entitled to give their opinions on it.

Just because a ref says a medic can come on, doesn't mean they have to go on. On one hand we have people saying that it's up to the medic to decide who's injured and who's not, but then we have people saying the ref told them to come on. It's not Mourinho's place to say there's an injury, but it is the refs? Hazard was absolutely fine as well, but that's not really relevant.

She wasn't treated nearly as badly as some people make out, they were both branded impulsive and naive, then left off first team duties. They have a big medical team, plenty other qualified medics to do the job while they were left out, which wasn't indefinitely, as Mourinho stated to the press.

And as you say, people are entitled to their opinion. That's mines.

easty
23-09-2015, 09:05 AM
You're clutching at straws mate!! And so will Mourinho be when she hopefully takes him AND Chelsea to the cleaners. If my wife was being treated like that at her work by an egotistical, arrogant bully, who thinks he's untouchable I'd go in and give him a slap round the puss. She was waved onto the park by the match official... Imagine the bother she'd be in if she'd ignored him and something unthinkable had happened to Hazard?! Do you think Mourinho would have accepted responsibility?! I think we all know the answer to that one....

I'm not clutching at anything. Ultimately, I don't care what happens with this whole situation, I don't like or dislike Chelsea or Mourinho, I just think it's been blown way out of proportion given that what actually happened was pretty trivial.

Given that taking someone to the cleaners means to take someone's money in a dishonest, or unfair, way, then you'd perhaps be right.

What happened to Hazard? Nowt. He was fine.

JimBHibees
23-09-2015, 09:06 AM
Just because a ref says a medic can come on, doesn't mean they have to go on. On one hand we have people saying that it's up to the medic to decide who's injured and who's not, but then we have people saying the ref told them to come on. It's not Mourinho's place to say there's an injury, but it is the refs? Hazard was absolutely fine as well, but that's not really relevant.

She wasn't treated nearly as badly as some people make out, they were both branded impulsive and naive, then left off first team duties. They have a big medical team, plenty other qualified medics to do the job while they were left out, which wasn't indefinitely, as Mourinho stated to the press.

And as you say, people are entitled to their opinion. That's mines.

How do you know how they were treated ? If they were treated in anyway like they were treated publically I am assuming it wasnt great.

The ref would ask the player if he wanted treatment, assuming Eden said yes and the ref then waved them on. Why would the medical people not go on if they were waved on by someone who had asked the player. The person Jose should have been angry with was the player himself rather than the medical people though less easy to do that with one of his main stars.

easty
23-09-2015, 09:15 AM
How do you know how they were treated ? If they were treated in anyway like they were treated publically I am assuming it wasnt great.

The ref would ask the player if he wanted treatment, assuming Eden said yes and the ref then waved them on. Why would the medical people not go on if they were waved on by someone who had asked the player. The person Jose should have been angry with was the player himself rather than the medical people though less easy to do that with one of his main stars.

I only know what's been reported in the press, what more can we go on? If Mourinho has been giving her abuse behind the scenes and making life hell for her, then that's obviously different, but given that there's been nothing like that reported, you can't just assume it has been happening. At the time of the incident they were both yelled at, is that enough of a reason to quit your job for bullying? Not for me. In the press conference they were called impulsive and naive, is that enough of a reason to quit your job for bullying? Again, not for me. Then they were removed, for the time being, from first team duties. Again, that's nae reason to quit your job for bullying.

Baader
23-09-2015, 09:23 AM
I only know what's been reported in the press, what more can we go on? If Mourinho has been giving her abuse behind the scenes and making life hell for her, then that's obviously different, but given that there's been nothing like that reported, you can't just assume it has been happening. At the time of the incident they were both yelled at, is that enough of a reason to quit your job for bullying? Not for me. In the press conference they were called impulsive and naive, is that enough of a reason to quit your job for bullying? Again, not for me. Then they were removed, for the time being, from first team duties. Again, that's nae reason to quit your job for bullying.

You must be an employers dream! Mourinho made her position untenable by criticising their actions publicly. You keep bigging up Mourinho here but what exactly did the medical team do wrong? Or do you think its fair game for your employer to openly question your judgement and professionalism in a press conference? Why didn't he lay in to Hazard? I wonder...

This whole incident has not gone down well at all at Chelsea and there are a decent few there concerned about the club's image in light of this.

Liberal Hibby
23-09-2015, 09:25 AM
Or does it only count as abuse if it's to a female?
No it counts as abuse if it's to an employee. You said mourino called her a 'child of a whore'. I'd say that's prima faci evidence of workplace bullying.

Mikey09
23-09-2015, 09:26 AM
I'm not clutching at anything. Ultimately, I don't care what happens with this whole situation, I don't like or dislike Chelsea or Mourinho, I just think it's been blown way out of proportion given that what actually happened was pretty trivial.

Given that taking someone to the cleaners means to take someone's money in a dishonest, or unfair, way, then you'd perhaps be right.

What happened to Hazard? Nowt. He was fine.


It was Mourinho who blew the whole thing out of proportion suspending them.

Whether Hazard was fine is irrelevant... What if, god forbid, it had been another Muamba situation?! Who is Mourinho to judge from that distance if a player is seriously hurt or not? The official has players safety to consider, the club doctor and physio have a duty of care towards the players. If both think the player needs treatment then who the hell is Mourinho to decide otherwise? His win at all cost thinking has gone too far here as the only thing he was worried about was Hazard leaving the pitch leaving Chelsea a man short. He's an utter fud. I respect your opinion easty however I totally disagree mate.

Smartie
23-09-2015, 09:52 AM
Mourinho is known for his leadership skills, he's one of the top managers in the world and can get players to run through brick walls for him.

He got this badly wrong, on many levels.

You don't criticise specific players, the kit man, the tea lady or the medical staff and the best leaders know that every little bit of what makes up their organisation contributes to their success.

He hung the medical staff out to dry and it is possibly the biggest error of judgment he has made (I'm sure it will have had an impact and influenced their bad start to the season).

It won't be fatal although the club will have to shell out a few quid in compensation and the club's "global brand" will have been damaged.

Mourinho doesn't do public humility, fair play to him that is the style he has chosen to adopt.

But deep down he'll know he's mad a mess of this and if he had his time again he'd handle it differently.

easty
23-09-2015, 09:52 AM
You must be an employers dream! Mourinho made her position untenable by criticising their actions publicly. You keep bigging up Mourinho here but what exactly did the medical team do wrong? Or do you think its fair game for your employer to openly question your judgement and professionalism in a press conference? Why didn't he lay in to Hazard? I wonder...

This whole incident has not gone down well at all at Chelsea and there are a decent few there concerned about the club's image in light of this.

When exactly have I bigged up Mourinho?

Jon Fearn was treated the same way, he hasn't felt his position is untenable.

I think it's fair game for Mourinho to answer a direct question from the press about the situation, by calling them impulsive and naive. Is that really a massive insult?

easty
23-09-2015, 10:00 AM
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It was Mourinho who blew the whole thing out of proportion suspending them.

Whether Hazard was fine is irrelevant... What if, god forbid, it had been another Muamba situation?! Who is Mourinho to judge from that distance if a player is seriously hurt or not? The official has players safety to consider, the club doctor and physio have a duty of care towards the players. If both think the player needs treatment then who the hell is Mourinho to decide otherwise? His win at all cost thinking has gone too far here as the only thing he was worried about was Hazard leaving the pitch leaving Chelsea a man short. He's an utter fud. I respect your opinion easty however I totally disagree mate.

Were they actually suspended from the club? I know they were removed from first team duties, I didn't think they'd been suspended though.

It wasn't a Muamba situation though. It's not really comparable to that at all.

Baader
23-09-2015, 10:01 AM
When exactly have I bigged up Mourinho?

Jon Fearn was treated the same way, he hasn't felt his position is untenable.

I think it's fair game for Mourinho to answer a direct question from the press about the situation, by calling them impulsive and naive. Is that really a massive insult?

For doing nothing more than your job? Yes it is. He manages to avoid questions all the time with the "I don't want to talk about it" line. I don't agree with your take on this. You haven't answered what they actually done wrong to merit the public criticism in the first place.

Pretty Boy
23-09-2015, 10:13 AM
Just because you say there was no justifiable reason, that doesn't make it so. Mourinho said that they wouldn't be on the bench for the next game, but that didn't mean they wouldn't be in the future. That's what he said.

Also from what I've read of it he called her - what literally translates as - 'daughter of a whore' in Portugese, but that's said to be the equivalent of calling someone a 'son of a bitch'. If we're picking folk up for using language like that in football, then there's going to be a hell of a lot of people getting pulled up. Or does it only count as abuse if it's to a female?

In Spanish the son/daughter of a whore insult is hugely offensive, the equivalent of using a certain work beginning with c in English.

If it's the same in Portugese I can see why she's takingn offence.

easty
23-09-2015, 10:21 AM
No it counts as abuse if it's to an employee. You said mourino called her a 'child of a whore'. I'd say that's prima faci evidence of workplace bullying.

I also said he called her it in Portugese, and that it was our equivalent of calling someone a son of a bitch. Is it bad language, yes. Is it bullying, not for me. If it is, then there must be a hell of a lot of people working in football clubs that could make a claim today.

TrinityHibs
23-09-2015, 10:21 AM
Were they actually suspended from the club? I know they were removed from first team duties, I didn't think they'd been suspended though.

It wasn't a Muamba situation though. It's not really comparable to that at all.

Fearn wasn't removed from first team duties. He just didn't sit on the bench.

easty
23-09-2015, 10:25 AM
In Spanish the son/daughter of a whore insult is hugely offensive, the equivalent of using a certain work beginning with c in English.

If it's the same in Portugese I can see why she's takingn offence.

I've no idea how it's construed in Portugese, I'm just saying that I read it reported that it was the equivalent of 'son of a bitch'. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/14/jose-mourinho-chelsea-eva-carneiro-son-of-a-bitch-jon-fearn)

Iain G
23-09-2015, 10:25 AM
Fearn wasn't removed from first team duties. He just didn't sit on the bench.

But is on first team duty in their cup game tonight

easty
23-09-2015, 10:27 AM
Fearn wasn't removed from first team duties. He just didn't sit on the bench.

He didn't take to Facebook about the situation either, so I assume that's where that comes from.

Mikey09
23-09-2015, 10:28 AM
Were they actually suspended from the club? I know they were removed from first team duties, I didn't think they'd been suspended though.

It wasn't a Muamba situation though. It's not really comparable to that at all.


They were suspended from first team duties.

No it wasn't a Muamba situation but who's to say the next one won't be? the ref has to take precautions as do the medical staff. My point is Mourinho has no right to interfere if the doctor and physio are waved on. He knows he's over stepped the mark but is too arrogant to admit it. He would have got a hell of a lot more respect if he had held his hands up and admitted he has handled this poorly. Good managers can admit they get things wrong and learn from them. Mourinho sees that as some kind of failing or flaw. He instead blames everyone around him when things go wrong, yet takes all the plaudits with his smug attitude when they win. Arse.

easty
23-09-2015, 10:32 AM
They were suspended from first team duties.

No it wasn't a Muamba situation but who's to say the next one won't be? the ref has to take precautions as do the medical staff. My point is Mourinho has no right to interfere if the doctor and physio are waved on. He knows he's over stepped the mark but is too arrogant to admit it. He would have got a hell of a lot more respect if he had held his hands up and admitted he has handled this poorly. Good managers can admit they get things wrong and learn from them. Mourinho sees that as some kind of failing or flaw. He instead blames everyone around him when things go wrong, yet takes all the plaudits with his smug attitude when they win. Arse.

I suppose it's about choice of words then, they weren't properly suspended (I don't think), just removed from first team duties. They're employed by Chelsea, not Chelsea first team.

HappyHanlon
23-09-2015, 10:50 AM
Sign her up at Hibs. That would sell 3000 season tickets :)

Don't need her - we've got Kitty McKinnon :not worth:drool:

NAE NOOKIE
23-09-2015, 10:57 AM
Both her and her male counterpart were treated the same (which I thought was pretty lousy management from Moronho but he is a supreme asshole).

It would not have been an issue for the press had she not been female and passably attractive. It sells papers.

Ye gods mate .... how high is your bar :greengrin

To be serious though: We are not talking about a guy with a bucket of water and a sponge here, if you google Ms Carneiro its pretty clear that she is extremely well qualified and highly regarded. In the medical profession the worst thing that anybody can do to you is call into question your judgement and professionalism, especially in public.

IMO the second the ref waved her on that's where Mourinho's say in the matter ended and she became responsible for the situation, which means she pretty well had no choice but to go onto the pitch ..... I actually like Mourinho, he brings a different dimension to the game and whatever he is he certainly aint boring, but he has got this badly wrong. Somebody said he called her a "daughter of a whore" ... perhaps in some cultures that's a minor insult, but I'm willing to bet that in Portuguese culture which is pretty religious its not the thing to call anybody lightly.

I agree that the story has made headlines because Jose Mourinho is involved and Eva Carneiro is very attractive, not to mention a woman in a male dominated world, but that doesn't make Mourinho's actions any less wrong and her stance in the matter any less right. She has been verbally abused, relieved of her duties, criticised in public after the fact and had her judgement and professionalism called into question ..... I doubt her personal or professional pride would allow her any other course of action.

EskbankHibby
23-09-2015, 10:59 AM
That the physio has decided to stay and the doctor to leave is of no consequence really. I'm not bothered by any facebook posts or distinction between male or female healthcare professionals in the media or general population.

I'm sure we all have our own opinions on how we would react if someone in our organisation were to insist on our roles being downgraded - even temporarily - for doing our jobs in the manner not only in which we should do them but in the manner in which we HAVE to do them.

Player goes down - referee asks player if medical assistance is required - player says yes - Referee waves medical team on. After this sequence of events the medical team do not have a choice, what Mourinho has suggested apparently is that the medical team should be applying some non-clinical reasoning relating to the game situation and ignoring their duty of care to Hazard. This is absurd.

Professionally the doctor and physio were put in a dreadful position, google the 'bloodgate' scandal to navigate through that particular minefield where professional ethics clash with team goals (the physio was initially struck off).

Diagnosis without assessment would be a catastrophic route to go down clinically in any environment, even when dealing with a seemingly benign presentation like a player like Hazard going down for the 6th time in a game. Mourinho has behaved ridiculously here, that the club has seemingly backed him is equally ridiculous in my opinion and the only real surprise here is that any of the medical team are still there.

TrinityHibs
23-09-2015, 11:10 AM
They were suspended from first team duties.

No it wasn't a Muamba situation but who's to say the next one won't be? the ref has to take precautions as do the medical staff. My point is Mourinho has no right to interfere if the doctor and physio are waved on. He knows he's over stepped the mark but is too arrogant to admit it. He would have got a hell of a lot more respect if he had held his hands up and admitted he has handled this poorly. Good managers can admit they get things wrong and learn from them. Mourinho sees that as some kind of failing or flaw. He instead blames everyone around him when things go wrong, yet takes all the plaudits with his smug attitude when they win. Arse.

Fearn wasn't. He travelled with the team to the next game as first team physio. He just didn't sit on the bench.

JimBHibees
23-09-2015, 11:17 AM
That the physio has decided to stay and the doctor to leave is of no consequence really. I'm not bothered by any facebook posts or distinction between male or female healthcare professionals in the media or general population.

I'm sure we all have our own opinions on how we would react if someone in our organisation were to insist on our roles being downgraded - even temporarily - for doing our jobs in the manner not only in which we should do them but in the manner in which we HAVE to do them.

Player goes down - referee asks player if medical assistance is required - player says yes - Referee waves medical team on. After this sequence of events the medical team do not have a choice, what Mourinho has suggested apparently is that the medical team should be applying some non-clinical reasoning relating to the game situation and ignoring their duty of care to Hazard. This is absurd.

Professionally the doctor and physio were put in a dreadful position, google the 'bloodgate' scandal to navigate through that particular minefield where professional ethics clash with team goals (the physio was initially struck off).

Diagnosis without assessment would be a catastrophic route to go down clinically in any environment, even when dealing with a seemingly benign presentation like a player like Hazard going down for the 6th time in a game. Mourinho has behaved ridiculously here, that the club has seemingly backed him is equally ridiculous in my opinion and the only real surprise here is that any of the medical team are still there.

Agree with all of that. The player obviously told the ref he needed assistance, the ref complied and the medics rolled on. If there was nothing wrong with Hazard it should be him getting any flack. The medics did their job as no doubt they would be told to do unless Jose has put in a clause saying unless it is injury time and it is Eden because he tends to exaggerate a bit :greengrin

AndyM_1875
23-09-2015, 11:35 AM
I've no idea how it's construed in Portugese, I'm just saying that I read it reported that it was the equivalent of 'son of a bitch'. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/14/jose-mourinho-chelsea-eva-carneiro-son-of-a-bitch-jon-fearn)

In Spanish or Portuguese it's an incredibly offensive thing to say. My Mrs speaks Spanish and if someone used that or any of the myriad of expressions based around 'Hijo de Puta', 'Puta Madre' etc towards her then they'd have a very sore face and deservedly so.

overdrive
23-09-2015, 11:40 AM
I like Mourinho but I think he got this very wrong. If the referee called the medical staff on, the medical staff have a duty of care to the player. The reason why the referee can instruct the medical staff to do so (over and above instructions from any management) is a combination of the medical staff's duty of care to the player and the fact the referee has responsibility for the safety of the players during the match (I think).

That said, it is highly unusual for a doctor to be coming on the pitch for every injury - it is usually the physio who goes on. I'm not sure why Chelsea had a doctor going on all the time (as it seemed she did).

Beefster
23-09-2015, 11:52 AM
Players go down all the time, not necessarily faking it, but not needing treatment either. And that was the case with Hazard in this instance. As a medical professional, and as someone involved in top level football, she should - and no doubt does - know this.

Someone has maybe pointed this out already but Hazard was asked by the ref if he needed treatment and said yes. The ref called the medical staff on as a result. I'm not sure how she (or the physio for that matter) was supposed to know that Hazard didn't need treatment when he was saying that he did.

Brightside
23-09-2015, 12:23 PM
Someone has maybe pointed this out already but Hazard was asked by the ref if he needed treatment and said yes. The ref called the medical staff on as a result. I'm not sure how she (or the physio for that matter) was supposed to know that Hazard didn't need treatment when he was saying that he did.

This whole thing has nothing to do with her coming onto the pitch. Hence why she is going for constructive dismissal. Expect her to get a whopping out of court settlement. :wink:

Kavinho
23-09-2015, 05:08 PM
I also said he called her it in Portugese, and that it was our equivalent of calling someone a son of a bitch. Is it bad language, yes. Is it bullying, not for me. If it is, then there must be a hell of a lot of people working in football clubs that could make a claim today.


Just as well then it's not you judging in the inevitable employment tribunal (unless they settle first!)

Bullying/harassment is generally defined by the impact and effect it has on the recipient, and not on whether there was any deliberate intent by the perpetrator..

Broadly, if she's felt bullied or belittled by it, then she has been....

21.05.2016
23-09-2015, 05:14 PM
Good on her. Mourinho made an absolute tit of himself in this whole affair.

I used to quite like Mourinho but over the years he's come across more and more of an arrogant, smug smart arse. I dare say a lot of his arrogance is to do with his management style - he wants the upmost respect from his players and wants to make it clear that he wont be undermined but still think hes a bit of an arse.