He's served his time...yadda yadda yadda

[Hibbyradge]

What an embarrassment. (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/jeremy-corbyn-makes-mike-watson-a-convicted-arsonist-his-education-spokesman-yes-seriously/)

[CropleyWasGod]

After the first two lines, my eyes glazed over :)

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[Hibbyradge]

My mate was at Prestonfield House when he set it on fire.

It's beyond comprehension that Corbyn would bring him in from the House of Lords in the first place.

if it all wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

Actually, it is funny.

[CropleyWasGod]

My mate was at Prestonfield House when he set it on fire.

It's beyond comprehension that Corbyn would bring him in from the House of Lords in the first place.

if it all wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

Actually, it is funny.
I probably agree with that.

However, the "get - Corbyn" agenda is getting so tiresome that any sensible debate gets lost.

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[Hibbyradge]

However, the "get - Corbyn" agenda is getting so tiresome that any sensible debate gets lost.



It's not even started yet.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's not even started yet.
The debate? Wake me up when it does [emoji6]

Or the Corby-chev stuff? Fear that you are right.

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[Hibbyradge]

The debate? Wake me up when it does [emoji6]

Or the Corby-chev stuff? Fear that you are right.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yeah, the latter.

The right wing don't need to do too much just now, but if Corbyn shows any sign at all of becoming a threat, they'll rip him to pieces.

In truth, they'll do that anyway. Just for the hell of it.

[lucky]

Watson made a mistake when drunk. Served his time. Time to move on. It's yet another attack Corbyn story. That been said I don't think anyone who is not elected should serve on the front bench or shadow cabinet

[Hibbyradge]

Watson made a mistake when drunk. Served his time. Time to move on. It's yet another attack Corbyn story. That been said I don't think anyone who is not elected should serve on the front bench or shadow cabinet

I disagree.

A convicted arsonist should not be on the front benches of our government.

Or are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?

[Hiber-nation]

I disagree.

A convicted arsonist should not be on the front benches of our government.

Or are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?

Agree.

Is Corbyn just trying to be controversial with this utterly bizarre appointment?

Mike Watson....I despair!

[lord bunberry]

I disagree.

A convicted arsonist should not be on the front benches of our government.

Or are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?
He isn't on the front benches of our government. I agree though that this clown should be nowhere near parliament after his arson conviction. The press assault on Corbyn has been shameful so far, but on this occasion they've got a point.

[Hibbyradge]

He isn't on the front benches of our government. I agree though that this clown should be nowhere near parliament after his arson conviction. The press assault on Corbyn has been shameful so far, but on this occasion they've got a point.

Yes, you're right.

He's on Labour's front bench.

[Colr]

My mate was at Prestonfield House when he set it on fire.

It's beyond comprehension that Corbyn would bring him in from the House of Lords in the first place.

if it all wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

Actually, it is funny.

Maybe his job is to burn the House of Lords down!

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe his job is to burn the House of Lords down!

He's a peer. He could have done that years ago.

Bloody incompetent!

[danhibees1875]

Set fire to some curtains? Woopty ****** do...

[lord bunberry]

Set fire to some curtains? Woopty ****** do...
I'm guessing the judge who sent him to prison for it didn't have the same attitude to his crime as you.

[johnbc70]

Set fire to some curtains? Woopty ****** do...

How would you have felt if you and your family had been staying in the hotel at the time?

[danhibees1875]

I'm guessing the judge who sent him to prison for it didn't have the same attitude to his crime as you.

I'll admit to some early AM un-advised posting on that one. I think I have a different image in my head of how this incident went down (with no previous knowledge of it at all) to what maybe actually happened.

I apologise for my comments and yes, I can see it could have perhaps spiralled into a distressing time for others in the hotel and wouldn't wish my own family's safety jeopardized.

I do Stil think the media are trying to beat him with any stick wherever possible. I'm not entirely sure his reasons behind constantly leaving himself open to attacks from the press but I'm curious to see who folds first.

[Just Jimmy]

Corbyn and labour are simply condeming us to another decade of tory rule.

Labour are a shambles. They'll haul him down as leader internally before the press do it.

[marinello59]

Corbyn and labour are simply condeming us to another decade of tory rule.

Labour are a shambles. They'll haul him down as leader internally before the press do it.

This appointment is a mistake but they are far from a shambles. Look beyond the sensationalist headlines about IRA sympathisers etc and he has actually put together a fairly broad team. I wouldn't write him or Labour off yet. He may not be the next PM but he may well prepare the ground for somebody else.

[lucky]

I would not have any Lords as part of the front bench but until the Lords is shut its the system we've got. I wouldn't have included Watson but I do believe that convicted criminals do deserve a second chance in life

[heretoday]

This appointment is a mistake but they are far from a shambles. Look beyond the sensationalist headlines about IRA sympathisers etc and he has actually put together a fairly broad team. I wouldn't write him or Labour off yet. He may not be the next PM but he may well prepare the ground for somebody else.

Hear Hear!

[ronaldo7]

I'll admit to some early AM un-advised posting on that one. I think I have a different image in my head of how this incident went down (with no previous knowledge of it at all) to what maybe actually happened.

I apologise for my comments and yes, I can see it could have perhaps spiralled into a distressing time for others in the hotel and wouldn't wish my own family's safety jeopardized.

I do Stil think the media are trying to beat him with any stick wherever possible. I'm not entirely sure his reasons behind constantly leaving himself open to attacks from the press but I'm curious to see who folds first.

The trouble is he seems to be handing them the sticks to do the job. Firstly Lord Falconer, and now a second Lord just to make up the numbers. A wrong choice from Corbyn imo, but hey ho. Two Lords a leaping.

[lord bunberry]

I'll admit to some early AM un-advised posting on that one. I think I have a different image in my head of how this incident went down (with no previous knowledge of it at all) to what maybe actually happened.

I apologise for my comments and yes, I can see it could have perhaps spiralled into a distressing time for others in the hotel and wouldn't wish my own family's safety jeopardized.

I do Stil think the media are trying to beat him with any stick wherever possible. I'm not entirely sure his reasons behind constantly leaving himself open to attacks from the press but I'm curious to see who folds first.
I agree that the media are having a field day with Corbyn, I just don't understand his thinking on this one.

[lord bunberry]

I would not have any Lords as part of the front bench but until the Lords is shut its the system we've got. I wouldn't have included Watson but I do believe that convicted criminals do deserve a second chance in life
I agree people should get a second chance but not everyone gets that second chance. I know people who have been denied the chance to earn a living as a taxi driver for much less than what Watson did. It really annoys me when people like him are allowed to breeze back into their well paid jobs while others are denied the same right.

[Hibbyradge]

I would not have any Lords as part of the front bench but until the Lords is shut its the system we've got. I wouldn't have included Watson but I do believe that convicted criminals do deserve a second chance in life

Yes they do.

But Shadow Ministerial jobs, with all their perks, are hardly the opportunities for convicted criminals to demonstrate remorse for their misdemeanours!

Or, as I've asked before, are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes they do.

But Shadow Ministerial jobs, with all their perks, are hardly the opportunities for convicted criminals to demonstrate remorse for their misdemeanours!

Or, as I've asked before, are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?
As I understand it, he is not a Shadow Minister. He is the Labour spokesman in the Lords with the remit of opposing one particular Government bill.

Your point stands, of course, but it's another example of the media spin.

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[GreenLake]

You can't make this up.

[snooky]

I would not have any Lords as part of the front bench but until the Lords is shut its the system we've got. I wouldn't have included Watson but I do believe that convicted criminals do deserve a second chance in life

Just wonder who'll 'fire' who first - Corbyn or Watson

[--------]

Yes they do.

But Shadow Ministerial jobs, with all their perks, are hardly the opportunities for convicted criminals to demonstrate remorse for their misdemeanours!

Or, as I've asked before, are there no crimes that folk commit which would preclude them being in government after they had served their sentence?


This guy was made a peer for no other reason than as a reward for political services not to the country but to one particular political party. His peerage was really an appointment to a lucrative source of expenses, attendance fees and the perks that go with being in Parliament when business wants a spokesman or cheerleader there.

He's a convicted criminal whose title should have been removed from him when he was convicted. As should have happened with all the other political Lords who've populated HM Prisons in the past few years. He's not an elected representative of the people; he's a discredited party hack whose ttle and position owes nothing to the poeple and everything to patronage and doing his master's bidding.

Arson is a very serious offence and this creep should be nowhere near Parliament in any role.

[Pete]

After the first two lines, my eyes glazed over :)

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:agree:

My eyes are starting to glaze over whenever anything to do with Corbyn gets mentioned.

I'd rather have a front bench full of convicted arsonists who's hearts are in the right place than a bench full of right wing Tory toffs who have never done a days work in their lives and unanimously agree that slashing welfare for the poor and working class is the way forward.

Real people make real mistakes and they should be allowed to live their lives and seek employment within the confines of the law.

Maybe any deviation from the Etonian/Oxbridge/****ging pigs sort of upbringing is a little bit too much for some to comprehend, hence the outcry? :dunno:

[Hibbyradge]

:agree:


I'd rather have a front bench full of convicted arsonists who's hearts are in the right place than a bench full of right wing Tory toffs who have never done a days work in their lives and unanimously agree that slashing welfare for the poor and working class is the way forward.



I don't have a preference between arsonists and those toffs you mention. I'd rather neither were in parliament.

I do believe, however, that people who deliberately break our laws should not be our law makers.

Like it or not, there is no law against being rich and privileged.

[lord bunberry]

:agree:

My eyes are starting to glaze over whenever anything to do with Corbyn gets mentioned.

I'd rather have a front bench full of convicted arsonists who's hearts are in the right place than a bench full of right wing Tory toffs who have never done a days work in their lives and unanimously agree that slashing welfare for the poor and working class is the way forward.

Real people make real mistakes and they should be allowed to live their lives and seek employment within the confines of the law.

Maybe any deviation from the Etonian/Oxbridge/****ging pigs sort of upbringing is a little bit too much for some to comprehend, hence the outcry? :dunno:
The problem I've got with this has nothing to do with upbringing or class, it's the fact that for most jobs a convicted arsonist wouldn't be considered. Politicians are constantly interfering in our day to day lives, but they don't have to face the same barriers if they **** things up.

[lyonhibs]

:agree:

My eyes are starting to glaze over whenever anything to do with Corbyn gets mentioned.

I'd rather have a front bench full of convicted arsonists who's hearts are in the right place than a bench full of right wing Tory toffs who have never done a days work in their lives and unanimously agree that slashing welfare for the poor and working class is the way forward.

Real people make real mistakes and they should be allowed to live their lives and seek employment within the confines of the law.

Maybe any deviation from the Etonian/Oxbridge/****ging pigs sort of upbringing is a little bit too much for some to comprehend, hence the outcry? :dunno:

You're very libertarian if you file a conviction for arson as merely a "real mistake" that shouldn't be taken into consideration when appointing a relatively high ranking politician.

Also, are you saying that being an MP does not constitute doing "a days work"??

Reverse snobbery at its very finest (or poorest, depending on how one looks at it)

[Pete]

I don't have a preference between arsonists and those toffs you mention. I'd rather neither were in parliament.

I do believe, however, that people who deliberately break our laws should not be our law makers.

Like it or not, there is no law against being rich and privileged.


The problem I've got with this has nothing to do with upbringing or class, it's the fact that for most jobs a convicted arsonist wouldn't be considered. Politicians are constantly interfering in our day to day lives, but they don't have to face the same barriers if they **** things up.

To be honest my post was in frustration regarding the relentless campaign against Jeremy Corbyn but has others have said, maybe this is one where people have a point.

It does indeed come down to your own opinion of what sort of background is acceptable but where do you draw the line? Is it not better to let people appoint who they like then let public opinion dictate if that was the correct decision through democratic means?

I'll concede that an arson charge is probably towards the heavy end and it's a bit galling that he can somehow walk back into a life of privilege. However, I'd rather have a convicted, rehabilitated low-level criminal representing me than a dishonest, lying, slimey low-life like Nigel Griffiths or David Blunkett. Honesty and integrity are the two qualities that should be present above all else.

[Pete]

You're very libertarian if you file a conviction for arson as merely a "real mistake" that shouldn't be taken into consideration when appointing a relatively high ranking politician.

Also, are you saying that being an MP does not constitute doing "a days work"??

Reverse snobbery at its very finest (or poorest, depending on how one looks at it)

Of course I would take it into consideration, I just wouldn't automatically chuck the baby out with the bath water...and there's nothing wrong with being libertarian when it comes to some of your beliefs.:cb

I suppose the comments about toffs did come across as reverse snobbery but again, mere frustration at the stick that Corbyn is getting. An ordinary man who is presenting a vision that would help so many people is being undermined by the media who would therefore prefer this brutal, out of touch regime we have in place just now.

As for "a days work", I was suggesting that the majority of the conservative front bench have had a privileged upbringing with no real pressures like struggling to pay your rent or heat your home. I'd say they don't have a ****ing clue about the lives of about 90% of the people they are making decisions for and are woefully out of touch with reality. As for being an MP and considering it a days work...definately but it sure has its benefits. It's a gravy train I would sure as hell like to be on and it's a damn sight easier to get on if you are privileged enough.

[McD]

This guy was made a peer for no other reason than as a reward for political services not to the country but to one particular political party. His peerage was really an appointment to a lucrative source of expenses, attendance fees and the perks that go with being in Parliament when business wants a spokesman or cheerleader there.

He's a convicted criminal whose title should have been removed from him when he was convicted. As should have happened with all the other political Lords who've populated HM Prisons in the past few years. He's not an elected representative of the people; he's a discredited party hack whose ttle and position owes nothing to the poeple and everything to patronage and doing his master's bidding.

Arson is a very serious offence and this creep should be nowhere near Parliament in any role.




Totally agree :top marks

[--------]

To be honest my post was in frustration regarding the relentless campaign against Jeremy Corbyn but has others have said, maybe this is one where people have a point.

It does indeed come down to your own opinion of what sort of background is acceptable but where do you draw the line? Is it not better to let people appoint who they like then let public opinion dictate if that was the correct decision through democratic means?

I'll concede that an arson charge is probably towards the heavy end and it's a bit galling that he can somehow walk back into a life of privilege. However, I'd rather have a convicted, rehabilitated low-level criminal representing me than a dishonest, lying, slimey low-life like Nigel Griffiths or David Blunkett. Honesty and integrity are the two qualities that should be present above all else.


What do 'democratic means' have to do with a member of the House of Lords?

LORD Watson was a political appointee by the Labour Party and now the Labour Party are seeking to rehabilitate him - or appoint him to a position of influence regardless of whether he's been rehabilitated or not.

I'm perfectly happy to suspend judgement on Jeremy Corbyn until the evidence is there upon which to form such a judgement fairly and accurately.

But while he shows he's prepared to use the present system of patronage and cronyism to appoint someone like Lord Watson to positions of prominence - the House of Lords, for crying out loud? - you'll pardon me if I find it a touch difficult to take his libertarian and egalitarian credentials seriously.

I will concede that he seems to have the 'fraternity' bit down pat - look after your buddies regardless of what anyone else might think.

I won't ask what 'honesty and integrity' have to do with Lord Watson, or Lord Watson with them.

[Pete]

What do 'democratic means' have to do with a member of the House of Lords?

It depends. If you are that disgusted by the selection of Lord Watson for this role you can surely voice your displeasure by not voting labour.


LORD Watson was a political appointee by the Labour Party and now the Labour Party are seeking to rehabilitate him - or appoint him to a position of influence regardless of whether he's been rehabilitated or not.

I think this speaks volumes. He has done the crime, served his time and therefore underwent what the justice system sees as a full rehabilitation program. To even suggest that there is some form of rehabilitation at play tells me you feel that there is some price still to be paid by this man even though he has, in the eyes of the law, gone full circle. Personally, I think he is trying to make a strong point and lay down a marker with this appointment.


I'm perfectly happy to suspend judgement on Jeremy Corbyn until the evidence is there upon which to form such a judgement fairly and accurately.

But while he shows he's prepared to use the present system of patronage and cronyism to appoint someone like Lord Watson to positions of prominence - the House of Lords, for crying out loud? - you'll pardon me if I find it a touch difficult to take his libertarian and egalitarian credentials seriously.

I will concede that he seems to have the 'fraternity' bit down pat - look after your buddies regardless of what anyone else might think.

Now that the "yadda yadda" part is over, I'll let you know that you are preaching to the converted when it comes to the House of Lords. I have absolutely no time for this farce and the sooner it is abolished the better.

The post you quoted was where I was trying to make points in a more general sense and weren't specific to this Watson character.

I don't agree with all of Jeremy Corbyns policies but this is one thing I'd definitely be willing to let go to fully support a party who are aligned with my way of thinking regarding issues I feel passionately about like the housing crisis and the nationalisation of certain industries.

[Hibbyradge]

He has done the crime, served his time and therefore underwent what the justice system sees as a full rehabilitation program. To even suggest that there is some form of rehabilitation at play tells me you feel that there is some price still to be paid by this man even though he has, in the eyes of the law, gone full circle.

Spending time in jail does not equate to rehabilitation otherwise there would be no repeat offenders.

Watson's only defense was that he was drunk when he set the hotel on fire. How does someobe get rehabilitated from doing stupid things when drunk? As far as I know, he still drinks.

I've asked this before a couple of times, but no-one has answered yet; are there any crimes which would automatically preclude the perpetrators from being in government after they had served their sentence? Rapists? Pedophiles? Murderers? Fraudsters? Burglars?

Not related to the above argument, but this gives you an idea of the type of man he is http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/shamed-msp-cashed-in-on-being-a-peer-1-1403501

Lots more about this lovely man here (http://www.scotsman.com/lord-watson-1-1811902?currentPage=1).

[marinello59]

I've asked this before a couple of times, but no-one has answered yet; are there any crimes which would automatically preclude the perpetrators from being in government after they had served their sentence? Rapists? Pedophiles? Murderers? Fraudsters? Burglars?



Personally I would draw the line at caravanners.

[lord bunberry]

Spending time in jail does not equate to rehabilitation otherwise there would be no repeat offenders.

Watson's only defense was that he was drunk when he set the hotel on fire. How does someobe get rehabilitated from doing stupid things when drunk? As far as I know, he still drinks.

I've asked this before a couple of times, but no-one has answered yet; are there any crimes which would automatically preclude the perpetrators from being in government after they had served their sentence? Rapists? Pedophiles? Murderers? Fraudsters? Burglars?

Not related to the above argument, but this gives you an idea of the type of man he is http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/shamed-msp-cashed-in-on-being-a-peer-1-1403501

Lots more about this lovely man here (http://www.scotsman.com/lord-watson-1-1811902?currentPage=1).
Disclosure documents are required for loads of public sector jobs, just not the jobs that involve making laws. It's a prime case of do as I say not as I do.

[lord bunberry]

Personally I would draw the line at caravanners.
The mere mention of the word caravan sends a shiver down my spine. In 40 years of being on this earth I've managed to avoid the delights of the caravan holiday, but no more comrade, the October school week is almost upon us and apparently this means a trip to the north of England to spend a week in a caravan. Can anyone tell me if its true about the wife swapping parties :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Disclosure documents are required for loads of public sector jobs, just not the jobs that involve making laws. It's a prime case of do as I say not as I do.

That's about it. Would Say someone like Elton John be given a knighthood if he'd set a hotel on fire?

[lord bunberry]

That's about it. Would Say someone like Elton John be given a knighthood if he'd set a hotel on fire?
They took lester piggotts of him when he was convicted of tax fraud, but I get if you went into your local and added up the criminal convictions it would be lower and less serious than those in the unelected chamber.

[Steve-O]

Spending time in jail does not equate to rehabilitation otherwise there would be no repeat offenders.

Watson's only defense was that he was drunk when he set the hotel on fire. How does someobe get rehabilitated from doing stupid things when drunk? As far as I know, he still drinks.

I've asked this before a couple of times, but no-one has answered yet; are there any crimes which would automatically preclude the perpetrators from being in government after they had served their sentence? Rapists? Pedophiles? Murderers? Fraudsters? Burglars?

Not related to the above argument, but this gives you an idea of the type of man he is http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/shamed-msp-cashed-in-on-being-a-peer-1-1403501

Lots more about this lovely man here (http://www.scotsman.com/lord-watson-1-1811902?currentPage=1).

Well, it does equate to rehabilitation for some. Has he reoffended?

[Pete]

Spending time in jail does not equate to rehabilitation otherwise there would be no repeat offenders.

Watson's only defense was that he was drunk when he set the hotel on fire. How does someobe get rehabilitated from doing stupid things when drunk? As far as I know, he still drinks.


Maybe they get "rehabilitated" by having a shock like this to the system. He might still drink but will he think twice now that there are very real consequences? To me, that falls under the deterrent category which, along with rehabilitation, is an integral part of our justice system. I'm sure that if there was an issue or condition that required rehabilitation then the judge would have imposed some course of treatment.



I've asked this before a couple of times, but no-one has answered yet; are there any crimes which would automatically preclude the perpetrators from being in government after they had served their sentence? Rapists? Pedophiles? Murderers? Fraudsters? Burglars?

I don't actually know but it's an interesting question. All we have are personal opinions based on people's individual moral compass'. Personally I wouldn't want any of the above representing me or enjoying the privileged lifestyle as they are all pretty serious crimes.



Not related to the above argument, but this gives you an idea of the type of man he is http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/shamed-msp-cashed-in-on-being-a-peer-1-1403501

Lots more about this lovely man here (http://www.scotsman.com/lord-watson-1-1811902?currentPage=1).

He does sound like a right welt. I'll give you that. :-D

[Hibbyradge]

I don't actually know but it's an interesting question. All we have are personal opinions based on people's individual moral compass'. Personally I wouldn't want any of the above representing me or enjoying the privileged lifestyle as they are all pretty serious crimes.



Setting fire to hotel where people are sleeping, drinking and eating is pretty serious too!

What was he thinking? :dunno:

[TrinityHibs]

The mere mention of the word caravan sends a shiver down my spine. In 40 years of being on this earth I've managed to avoid the delights of the caravan holiday, but no more comrade, the October school week is almost upon us and apparently this means a trip to the north of England to spend a week in a caravan. Can anyone tell me if its true about the wife swapping parties :greengrin

If you're swapping the wife for a caravan make sure its got a decent heating system as it can be Baltic in the north of England at this time of year.

[MJN1875]

What an embarrassment. (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/jeremy-corbyn-makes-mike-watson-a-convicted-arsonist-his-education-spokesman-yes-seriously/)

At least he's not a nonce

[Hibbyradge]

At least he's not a nonce

Is that mitigation?

[--------]

At least he's not a nonce


And the source of this information?

(In other words, how do you know he's not a 'nonce'?)