Euro 2016 Qualifying

[Hibernia&Alba]

Indeed. He's been terrible. Why not bring on Griffiths or Naismith and play 2 up top??

Yes, may as well go for it.

[J-C]

There's no easy answer to this. It's been debated and debated.

Maybe it's simply unrealistic for Scotland to compete with consistently and defeat much larger countries like Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc, who have much greater resources, both financial and population wise.

OK it's only 2-3 tonight and anything is possible in a one-off match, but the gulf is clear, and has been for years.


Yet Iceland qualify with a population less than that of Edinburgh?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Indeed. He's been terrible. Why not bring on Griffiths or Naismith and play 2 up top??



coming off now..........FINALLY

[Aldo]

Yes, may as well go for it.

We should of played 2 up top on Friday nite tbh!

[J-C]

2 mids off and 2 on, basically GS happy with a loss.

[Aldo]

coming off now..........FINALLY

Coming off I don't know why he even started!

Don't rate him!

[Aldo]

2 mids off and 2 on, basically GS happy with a loss.

Tbh we lost any chance of qualifying with our defeat on Friday!

[SHODAN]

Unless of course, Ireland get a result against either Poland or Germany.

Naw. Assuming Scotland win away in Gibraltar (if we lose that, we can just withdraw from 2018 qualification), if Germany beat Ireland then the score in the Ireland-Poland game doesn't matter, we finish 3rd.

[God Petrie]

Unless of course, Ireland get a result against either Poland or Germany.

Nope.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/glass-half-chucked/

[J-C]

Tbh we lost any chance of qualifying with our defeat on Friday!


I know but we are getting beat, at least have a ****ing go at them, make it look like we're trying to win the game at least, lets show a bit of balls for once.

[Tyler Durden]

2 mids off and 2 on, basically GS happy with a loss.

You really haven't got a clue. He's gone 4-4-2 but don't let that stop your I'll informed moaning

[Aldo]

I know but we are getting beat, at least have a ****ing go at them, make it look like we're trying to win the game at least, lets show a bit of balls for once.

Agreed with you JC!

[SaulGoodman]

Yet Iceland qualify with a population less than that of Edinburgh?

Just out of curiosity who do Iceland have in their group?

[Thecat23]

Strachan has ****ed this right up. The loss in Georgia was terrible along with his team selection. To leave Griffiths out and not play him at all tonight is beyond baffling!

[Liam89]

Naw. Assuming Scotland win away in Gibraltar (if we lose that, we can just withdraw from 2018 qualification), if Germany beat Ireland then the score in the Ireland-Poland game doesn't matter, we finish 3rd.

I thought Ireland would be on 18 points if they lost vs Germany and won against Poland whereas we'd be on 17 if we win our next 2?

[Mr White]

Just out of curiosity who do Iceland have in their group?

Netherlands turkey czech Republic Latvia and Kazakhstan.

[Aldo]

Just out of curiosity who do Iceland have in their group?

Czech Rep, Turkey, Holland, Latvia and Kazakstan

[Pretty Boy]

Yet Iceland qualify with a population less than that of Edinburgh?

And Ireland have qualified for 2 tournaments since we last did and may well do again. Wales look likely to qualify this year. Even ****ing Latvia have qualified for a major tournament since we last did. Slovenia, population 2.1 million have been at 3 major tournaments since 98, Croatia with a population almost identical to Scotland have been at 3 Euros and 3 World Cups since 1998'

Whilst no one should realistically expect Scotland to go far at the finals of a tournament actually getting there should have been achieved far more often than it has in the last 17 years.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I know but we are getting beat, at least have a ****ing go at them, make it look like we're trying to win the game at least, lets show a bit of balls for once.


i'm sorta fine just getting 3-2 beat by a team that destroyed the mighty brazilians in there own back yard in a world cup final, they're a class act, quality always shines through in the end, disappointed but a realist

[J-C]

You really haven't got a clue. He's gone 4-4-2 but don't let that stop your I'll informed moaning


Well Martin is playing hell of a deep for a second striker, hence why I said 2 for 2 as it looked like a straight swap for a DM and AM.

[God Petrie]

I thought Ireland would be on 18 points if they lost vs Germany and won against Poland whereas we'd be on 17 if we win our next 2?

In that scenario Poland would be on 17 so would Scotland but we'd have drawn and beat Poland so finish third.

[Scorrie]

Yet Iceland qualify with a population less than that of Edinburgh?

Good article in the Guardian today about Iceland football. Lots of investment in facilities, youth coaching etc and good appointments to senior coaching staff. Not rocket science but a good long term plan

[johnbc70]

Just out of curiosity who do Iceland have in their group?

Holland
Turkey
Czech Republic
Latvia
Kazakhstan

[Liam89]

In that scenario Poland would be on 17 so would Scotland but we'd have drawn and beat Poland so finish third.

Och aye, cheers for clearing that up! :greengrin

[SaulGoodman]

Holland
Turkey
Czech Republic
Latvia
Kazakhstan

That's a pretty tricky group.

[cabbageandribs1875]

could have been a wee bit adventurous and at least sent the GK up for that corner



ah he's done it this time

[Sir David Gray]

All over. :boo hoo:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Holland
Turkey
Czech Republic
Latvia
Kazakhstan

Incredible achievement for a country of 300,000 to qualify from that. They must have a good structure in combination with the good luck of a talented group of players emerging together.

[J-C]

Don't mind getting beat by Germany, they are world champs after all but why do we always raise our games against these teams and drop points against the weaker teams in the group.

[emerald green]

Yet Iceland qualify with a population less than that of Edinburgh?

For the first time ever I think? Well done to Iceland. It's always possible as a one-off as you've just pointed out.

However, Scotland used to regularly qualify for World Cup finals, but have not done so now since 1998.

I read an article which said their (Iceland's) technical skills and excellent physical conditioning have made them hard to beat, but it is the tactical nous of wily Swedish coach Lars Lagerback that has helped get the most out of a limited pool of players. Also, most of their players also play at a fairly high level in Europe I think.

[cabbageandribs1875]

ah well...2-3 or 2-9...still nae points

[Onion]

Whole campaign was lost in Tiblisi. Disappointing but not surprising.

[SHODAN]

Poland is a must win now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

ah well...2-3 or 2-9...still nae points

Aye, nothing to show for it, but 2-3 doesn't reflect the huge gulf in class. It could have been a much heavier defeat. We hung in there well.

[cabbageandribs1875]

polski 8 gib 1

Eire 1 Georgia 0

n'orn oirland 1 Hungary 1



sigh

[worcesterhibby]

two shots on target in 180 minutes. zero points form a possible 6. I like Tennis better anyway..Murray on in a minute :)

[J-C]

For the first time ever I think? Well done to Iceland. It's always possible as a one-off as you've just pointed out.

However, Scotland used to regularly qualify for World Cup finals, but have not done so now since 1998.

I read an article which said their (Iceland's) technical skills and excellent physical conditioning have made them hard to beat, but it is the tactical nous of wily Swedish coach Lars Lagerback that has helped get the most out of a limited pool of players. Also, most of their players also play at a fairly high level in Europe I think.


Yep, gone are the days when we had players in most top English teams and in a few European ones too, no more Dalglish, Souness, Archibald, Jordan etc any players we have down south nowadays are either lower EPL or Championship side.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Aye, nothing to show for it, but 2-3 doesn't reflect the huge gulf in class. It could have been a much heavier defeat. We hung in there well.


true, scotland players should be asked to pay admission to watch how the game really should be played, passing was superb

[J-C]

true, scotland players should be asked to pay admission to watch how the game really should be played, passing was superb


Not just the passing but the movement off the ball. One of my biggest bugbears watching Hibs is the lack of movement in a lot of players, never able to get into space to be available for the pass, watched Allan last year looking annoyed many a time when he had the ball and had no one to pass it to as they were all stood around like statues.

[SaulGoodman]

Don't mind getting beat by Germany, they are world champs after all but why do we always raise our games against these teams and drop points against the weaker teams in the group.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Oh to be a Hibs and Scotland fan..

[Gordy M]

And yet win our next two games and i reckon we will make the play offs. Still all to play for.

[B.H.F.C]

Whole campaign was lost in Tiblisi. Disappointing but not surprising.

Signs were there in Dublin. Although we got a point we were brutal there as well.

[trev the hat]

100 lines for Strachan

Play the form players
Play the form players

Time for a young forward thinking coach for the national team IMO away from this old skool predictable team selections & we might actually qualify for a tournament

[cabbageandribs1875]

Not just the passing but the movement off the ball. One of my biggest bugbears watching Hibs is the lack of movement in a lot of players, never able to get into space to be available for the pass, watched Allan last year looking annoyed many a time when he had the ball and had no one to pass it to as they were all stood around like statues.


totally agree :agree:

[hiberactive]

Don't mind getting beat by Germany, they are world champs after all but why do we always raise our games against these teams and drop points against the weaker teams in the group.
We never raised our game tonight-we were absolutely outplayed,Germany could have stepped up another 2 or 3 gears.We have guys playing that should not be anywhere near international matches Hutton,Mulgrew,Forrest,Hanley and even Fletcher.

[J-C]

We never raised our game tonight-we were absolutely outplayed,Germany could have stepped up another 2 or 3 gears.We have guys playing that should not be anywhere near international matches Hutton,Mulgrew,Forrest,Hanley and even Fletcher.


They raised their games compared to Friday night's game, they were competitive tonight, outclassed but competitive, if they had played with that tempo and determination on Friday we would all be sitting here fairly happy.

[hfc rd]

From a neutral point of view. Scotland play Poland next and the Irish are at home to Germany. If Scotland beat Poland and the Germans do the business in Dublin, then Scotland are basically just about guaranteed a play-off spot. As they will be one point behind Ireland and three behind Poland but with the head to head advantage over both the Irish and Poles. Then Scotland are away to Gibraltar with the winner takes all match in Warsaw between Poland and Ireland. Win in Gibraltar and youse are in the play-offs.

All is not lost for you guys.

[Gordy M]

In fact beat poland and we are in the play off unless roi beat germany. (Assuming we beat gilbralter:greengrin)

[Greenblood70]

I don't think the players could have given any more effort but there really is a real dearth of talent in Scotland. The number of times possession is surrendered cheaply, the defenders just panic and boot the ball the way they are facing, strikers first touch isn't up to the task, we squander good crossing positions is criminal.

The game seems to move on and evolve constantly and our answer/contribution to the beautiful game is to bring on Chris ******' Martin to win free kicks for us. I despair.

[SteveHFC]

Cracking game shame we lost. Roll on Poland.

[Pete]

It's not over even if we don't beat Poland.

Ireland taking one point or even none from their remaining two games wouldn't be a shock. If we beat Gibraltar well then that would make up the goal difference.

I think I've got that right?

[blackpoolhibs]

We never raised our game tonight-we were absolutely outplayed,Germany could have stepped up another 2 or 3 gears.We have guys playing that should not be anywhere near international matches Hutton,Mulgrew,Forrest,Hanley and even Fletcher.

Who would replace these players, and how would they have done any different tonight? We've had one bad result in this group, and are still in this.

[Hibrandenburg]

Outclassed in every department but effort but only because the Germans didn't need to put in any.

[Onceinawhile]

It's not over even if we don't beat Poland.

Ireland taking one point or even none from their remaining two games wouldn't be a shock. If we beat Gibraltar well then that would make up the goal difference.

I think I've got that right?

Goal difference doesn't come in to it, it's head to head (which we'd win v Ireland)

[Gordy M]

It's not over even if we don't beat Poland.

Ireland taking one point or even none from their remaining two games wouldn't be a shock. If we beat Gibraltar well then that would make up the goal difference.

I think I've got that right?
Yeh you are right, if we draw with poland and germany beat roi, then we would need poland to win their last game at home to roi. Issue is a draw would see piland qualify and roi in play off.

[Gordy M]

Outclassed in every department but effort but only because the Germans didn't need to put in any.

Well i wish they had put in some 'effort' when got well beaten by poland and drew at home to ireland.

[Dalianwanda]

Outclassed in every department but effort but only because the Germans didn't need to put in any.

Rubbish

[Andy74]

two shots on target in 180 minutes. zero points form a possible 6. I like Tennis better anyway..Murray on in a minute :)

Tennis not going so well either!

[Thecat23]

Rubbish

Not really though is it. Germans never broke sweat and played at a training pace. Difference in the two teams was scary. 75% possession they had and we were chasing shadows.

Never got pumped but we were realistically never in it. Germans were always scoring more when needed.

[ekhibee]

Not really though is it. Germans never broke sweat and played at a training pace. Difference in the two teams was scary. 75% possession they had and we were chasing shadows.

Never got pumped but we were realistically never in it. Germans were always scoring more when needed.
Yeh, that's about right, but just for a small time during the game it was great to see them taken out of their comfort zone. And it was even better to listen to Tom English babbling **** at half time after predicting for the last 3 days that we would get hammered. Bet he was happier than anybody when Germany's 3rd goal went in.

[GreenLake]

Tennis not going so well either!

It's my fault. I bought semi final tickets and that made it a certainty Murray wouldn't make it that far. :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

Rubbish

I'd be interested to hear in what area we were better than the Germans.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd be interested to hear in what area we were better than the Germans.

I'd be interested to hear why we should be better than the Germans in any area?

[easty]

I'd be interested to hear in what area we were better than the Germans.

We had a better ratio in terms of possession to goals?

[stantonhibby]

I'd be interested to hear in what area we were better than the Germans.

I suspect he was commenting on the complete guff about Germany not needing to put any effort in.

[PeeJay]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

[easty]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

I'd agree with him.

[Thecat23]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

He's bang on.

[MB62]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

Pretty accurate IMO. Plenty effort but playing one up front again was never going to trouble Germany. All that done was allow their full back to play as wingers and we played with our backs to the wall. Full credit to the players for effort but just were not good enough. TBF, it was the previous game that was the problem, not last night's game. If we had won on Friday, we would no doubt have been singing the praises of the team for running the World Champs so close.

[stantonhibby]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

We are clearly miles behind Germany.....the annoying thing is that had we shown some of the passion and energy we showed last night on Friday, we would have at least taken a point.

[JimBHibees]

It's not over even if we don't beat Poland.

Ireland taking one point or even none from their remaining two games wouldn't be a shock. If we beat Gibraltar well then that would make up the goal difference.

I think I've got that right?

We have to take something from Poland though a defeat will knock us out. Not taking anything from Georgia means Ireland could lose both last games and still be third. If we had drawn Ireland would have had to take something from Germany or Poland. It isnt ideal that Poland and Ireland play the last game and there could be a mutually favourable result to be had e.g a draw which guarantees Poland qualification and Ireland third.

[JimBHibees]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

Couldnt really argue with him though I think there needs to be a wee bit of perspective in the relative merits and qualities of both teams. Most annoying thing for me what the basis errors committed by Scotland which led to some of the goals the second in particular was chronic. Where was Maloney leaving Can 30 yards of space at the back post? Marshall should have did a lot better also. Germany were excellent in possession and movement however I think we gave them a helping hand with at least 2 of the goals.

[PeeJay]

Couldnt really argue with him though I think there needs to be a wee bit of perspective in the relative merits and qualities of both teams. Most annoying thing for me what the basis errors committed by Scotland which led to some of the goals the second in particular was chronic. Where was Maloney leaving Can 30 yards of space at the back post? Marshall should have did a lot better also. Germany were excellent in possession and movement however I think we gave them a helping hand with at least 2 of the goals.

Fair points - didn't see much of the game, thought some players looked unfit to me in the part of the game that I did see? As to perspective, Strachan is correct in referencing Brazil, I guess. As to mistakes costing goals, don't think Germany's Neuer had his best game either to be fair ...

[JimBHibees]

Fair points - didn't see much of the game, thought some players looked unfit to me in the part of the game that I did see? As to perspective, Strachan is correct in referencing Brazil, I guess. As to mistakes costing goals, don't think Germany's Neuer had his best game either to be fair ...

Agree about the pressing thought it would have been better. Brown looked way off as did Mulgrew IMO.

He certainly didnt especially with first goal, in saying that he could have taken a good book onto the pitch given how little he seen the ball. :greengrin

[pontius pilate]

Taking everything into account over the weekend. I'm hopeful that we can still reach a play off place the Georgia game will come back to haunt us with regards to finishing second. Let's hope results go our way Ireland to get beat from Germany we beat Poland it then leaves Poland and Ireland having to play for the points rather then a safe draw.

I would however like to see some fresh faces brought either back into the squad or brought in for the first time.

[JimBHibees]

Taking everything into account over the weekend. I'm hopeful that we can still reach a play off place the Georgia game will come back to haunt us with regards to finishing second. Let's hope results go our way Ireland to get beat from Germany we beat Poland it then leaves Poland and Ireland having to play for the points rather then a safe draw.

I would however like to see some fresh faces brought either back into the squad or brought in for the first time.

I think we simply have to beat Poland, dont think a draw will be enough.

Steven Whittaker IMO must be wondering what he has to do to get in front of Hutton. Also saw no reason whatsoever for Mulgrew to be in front of Robertson.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think we simply have to beat Poland, dont think a draw will be enough.

Steven Whittaker IMO must be wondering what he has to do to get in front of Hutton. Also saw no reason whatsoever for Mulgrew to be in front of Robertson.

I thought Mulgrew did okay against Muller last night.

IMO, he was in there for his height and his physical presence. It's a common tactic for Germany to ping high balls out to Muller, and for him to knock them back into the middle. Whilst Mulgrew wasn't brilliant, he was probably more appropriate than Robertson for last night.

[easty]

I think we simply have to beat Poland, dont think a draw will be enough.

Steven Whittaker IMO must be wondering what he has to do to get in front of Hutton. Also saw no reason whatsoever for Mulgrew to be in front of Robertson.

Mulgrew looked absolutely lost at left back, he was all over the place. He's not a full back, simple as that, there's nae reason he should be playing ahead of Robertson.

[easty]

I thought Mulgrew did okay against Muller last night.

IMO, he was in there for his height and his physical presence. It's a common tactic for Germany to ping high balls out to Muller, and for him to knock them back into the middle. Whilst Mulgrew wasn't brilliant, he was probably more appropriate than Robertson for last night.

Muller scored twice.

[Dalianwanda]

I'd be interested to hear in what area we were better than the Germans.

I'm not saying the aren't superior, of course they are. Totally disagree with the part that they didn't require any effort though.

[Just_Jimmy]

Muller scored twice.

And the devestating past for the winner came from the left back area ... From Müller.

Mulgrew is garbage

[J-C]

I'm not saying the aren't superior, of course they are. Totally disagree with the part that they didn't require any effort though.


Compared to us they looked like they were playing a friendly, they strolled every department of the game and made us look like amateurs, it may have been 2-3 but they could've scored another 4-5 goals if they really wanted to.

[JimBHibees]

Compared to us they looked like they were playing a friendly, they strolled every department of the game and made us look like amateurs, it may have been 2-3 but they could've scored another 4-5 goals if they really wanted to.

if they were that much in control how did we score two goals?

Some of their stuff was brilliant however our defending made it easier for them than it could/should have been. To say they could have scored 4 or 5 more goals if they wanted to is nonsense to be honest.

[Green Man]

Mulgrew looked absolutely lost at left back, he was all over the place. He's not a full back, simple as that, there's nae reason he should be playing ahead of Robertson.

I assumed Robertson was injured as he wasn't on the bench.

[Dalianwanda]

Compared to us they looked like they were playing a friendly, they strolled every department of the game and made us look like amateurs, it may have been 2-3 but they could've scored another 4-5 goals if they really wanted to.

So their game plan was to keep the score low and only get enough to scrape a win? Surely not. Why wouldn't the want to score more?

[Bad Martini]

My observations:

* WGS was a tit with his selection. Fletcher should have been benched, Sparky should have started.
* The world champions, at times, were less like world champions (two ****ty goals against **** like us - really...!?)
* We contributed largely to our own defeat yesterday yet, I do agree with WGS that we were, for a large chunk of that game, unlucky.
* I Am NOT suggesting we are better than Germany nor suggesting we are anywhere near them. We are, compared to them, very pish...but NOT on yesterdays performance...
* Yesterday under most circumstances, against the best international side in the world would be deemed a "no bad result", especially given our inferior status to them
* ...nope, yesterday was NOT my issue. It was the ***** game against Georgia. Simples. Thats where the damage was done. Thats where the team can take little pride. Thats probably what has cost us qualification.

In addition though, I'd add...

* NO team has set this group alight. Poland started well, the rest have been so so.
* However, unlike a great many who revel in the national team failing, I still hope (and have a glimmer of hope/belief) that the Poles can still do us a favour with the Irish...
* This will rely on WGS getting our **** sorted and having us play like that in our last two games.

Who knows. Hard way for sure. Georgia was the problem. Always a ****ing slip up, every campaign, against supposed "lesser" teams.

Aw the same.

WE'LL BE COMING :saltireflag

[Bad Martini]

So their game plan was to keep the score low and only get enough to scrape a win? Surely not. Why wouldn't the want to score more?

To make it harder for themselves to qualify given the group standings, points and goals ? :confused:

Surely the Germans want to scrape through and look bad, given they are the current world champions and looking like tits against **** like us, Georgia and Ireland would be cool no ? :greengrin

[HappyHanlon]

Mulgrew, Hutton & Hanley - not international class.

Brown has been anonymous for last three matches but it's alright because he has a focussed expression on his face in the build up.

Fletcher looks low on morale (can hardly blame him giving how *****e Sunderland are these days) and is not the right option to play up top (is Griffiths...dunno) One man who isn't is Chris Martin, he's an imposter and seemed intent on just fouling the Germans last night.

I'd like to see us play Ritchie more - looks a good player and comfortable on the ball. Perhaps play him in just behind striker with Maloney and Anya on either flank?

WE CAN STILL DO IT!

[WeeRussell]

My observations:

* WGS was a tit with his selection. Fletcher should have been benched, Sparky should have started.
* The world champions, at times, were less like world champions (two ****ty goals against **** like us - really...!?)
* We contributed largely to our own defeat yesterday yet, I do agree with WGS that we were, for a large chunk of that game, unlucky.
* I Am NOT suggesting we are better than Germany nor suggesting we are anywhere near them. We are, compared to them, very pish...but NOT on yesterdays performance...
* Yesterday under most circumstances, against the best international side in the world would be deemed a "no bad result", especially given our inferior status to them
* ...nope, yesterday was NOT my issue. It was the ***** game against Georgia. Simples. Thats where the damage was done. Thats where the team can take little pride. Thats probably what has cost us qualification.

In addition though, I'd add...

* NO team has set this group alight. Poland started well, the rest have been so so.
* However, unlike a great many who revel in the national team failing, I still hope (and have a glimmer of hope/belief) that the Poles can still do us a favour with the Irish...
* This will rely on WGS getting our **** sorted and having us play like that in our last two games.

Who knows. Hard way for sure. Georgia was the problem. Always a ****ing slip up, every campaign, against supposed "lesser" teams.

Aw the same.

WE'LL BE COMING :saltireflag

:agree: Georgia result has really hurt us - had a strange affect on yesterday for me too... usually I would be waiting all weekend for the game coming round, but I never really believed we were going to get the result we needed last night. Had we got the 3 points we required on Friday... we could have enjoyed sitting frustrating the Germans and taking anything else as a bonus.

Commentators (and a few on here) going overboard about the way the Germans played. There have been far better German teams and performances than what we saw last night.

[Mikey09]

Mulgrew, Hutton & Hanley - not international class.

Brown has been anonymous for last three matches but it's alright because he has a focussed expression on his face in the build up.

Fletcher looks low on morale (can hardly blame him giving how *****e Sunderland are these days) and is not the right option to play up top (is Griffiths...dunno) One man who isn't is Chris Martin, he's an imposter and seemed intent on just fouling the Germans last night.

I'd like to see us play Ritchie more - looks a good player and comfortable on the ball. Perhaps play him in just behind striker with Maloney and Anya on either flank?

WE CAN STILL DO IT!


Ive highlighted the bit of that sentence that just deserves a reply. The whole team were out of sorts against Georgia not just Scott. Last night I thought him McCarthur and Morrison were fantastic against players considered some of the best in the world. Here's a question... If, as you are implying, Scott should have been dropped, who would you have played in that particular position that is better than him?!
The second part of that sentence is just a stupid thing to say.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not saying the aren't superior, of course they are. Totally disagree with the part that they didn't require any effort though.

I disagree, the Germans didn't have to huff and puff to fight for the ball back, we kept giving them it. Our off the ball movement was non existent apart from our attack when going forward but that was because we were playing kick and rush (something the Germans love to play against).

I haven't seen any statistics but I'd guess the Germans had nearly 70% possession meaning there was no need for much effort on their part. The amount of times we played the ball back to our keeper when in possession in the Germans half for him to hoof it forward speaks volumes for the lack of quality in midfield and throws light on what our game plan was. The Germans rarely got out of second gear whilst our lot must have been knackered chasing shadows. Opinions eh!

[Hibrandenburg]

in Löw's post-match interview on German tv he claimed Scotland's tactics were basically centred on "kick-and-rush" with a few standard free-kicks: otherwise Scotland had nothing to offer. Germany controlled the game from the start to finish. Pretty dismissive view of the team's capabilities really - didn't see much of the game myself, but Jögi's game analysis is usually spot on...

Although I agree with him I thought he come across as very ungracious in the interview. It's alright for me to be critical of our team but he could have sandwiched his criticism with a few compliments. Arrogant twat :greengrin

[Brightside]

Ive highlighted the bit of that sentence that just deserves a reply. The whole team were out of sorts against Georgia not just Scott. Last night I thought him McCarthur and Morrison were fantastic against players considered some of the best in the world. Here's a question... If, as you are implying, Scott should have been dropped, who would you have played in that particular position that is better than him?!
The second part of that sentence is just a stupid thing to say.

FWIW i'll chip in... :greengrin Brown is nowhere near the player he once was. I work next to a Celtic fan that goes to all the games and knows what hes talking about. His view is that Brown has been struggling for two years now and simply doesn't have the legs. Luckily at Celtic he has other players next to him that help him out. I'd have actually put Mulgrew in there against Georgia. Brown is no longer good enough for the national team. Mulgrew and D Fletcher would have been effective.

[worcesterhibby]

FWIW i'll chip in... :greengrin Brown is nowhere near the player he once was. I work next to a Celtic fan that goes to all the games and knows what hes talking about. His view is that Brown has been struggling for two years now and simply doesn't have the legs. Luckily at Celtic he has other players next to him that help him out. I'd have actually put Mulgrew in there against Georgia. Brown is no longer good enough for the national team. Mulgrew and D Fletcher would have been effective.

Opinions eh..I think Mulgrew is absolute Lillian Gish, I would't pick him for Hibs against Raith, let alone Scotland V Germany

[calumhibee1]

Mulgrew had a poor game, Brown was poor aswell and Forrest looks out of his depth at this level. Fletcher is also the most toothless forward you're likely to come across. Can win a header and occasionally hold the ball up well, there's no denying that but he literally offers nothing as a goal threat.

[Brightside]

Opinions eh..I think Mulgrew is absolute Lillian Gish, I would't pick him for Hibs against Raith, let alone Scotland V Germany

I think Mulgrew is a shocking LB...and anyone I know thinks the same. But he is effecting in front of the defence.

[Mikey09]

FWIW i'll chip in... :greengrin Brown is nowhere near the player he once was. I work next to a Celtic fan that goes to all the games and knows what hes talking about. His view is that Brown has been struggling for two years now and simply doesn't have the legs. Luckily at Celtic he has other players next to him that help him out. I'd have actually put Mulgrew in there against Georgia. Brown is no longer good enough for the national team. Mulgrew and D Fletcher would have been effective.


Did you and your Celtic supporting work mate see the ground Scott covered last night?! Lennon had him as his captain, WGS the same for the national team.... If he doesn't have the legs anymore why would pros who really know the game have him as captain far less play the lad?! I know who I would listen to.

[JimBHibees]

Did you and your Celtic supporting work mate see the ground Scott covered last night?! Lennon had him as his captain, WGS the same for the national team.... If he doesn't have the legs anymore why would pros who really know the game have him as captain far less play the lad?! I know who I would listen to.

He did get taken off though which is a bit of an indictment for a captain. Although he did alot of running he was off the pace as was McArthur. The midfield looked thrown together to be honest and IMO didnt really work well what with McArthur getting caught out for first goal and Maloney 20 yards out of position for the second.

[Since90+2]

Seems the consensus that the defence was murder last night is not shared by the Scotsman journalist covering the game. He gave the following rating in the paper today:

Hutton - 9
Hanley - 7
Martin - 7
Mulgrew - 8

Interestingly he gave Muller , who scored twice and set up the third , a 7.

[JimBHibees]

Seems the consensus that the defence was murder last night is not shared by the Scotsman journalist covering the game. He gave the following rating in the paper today:

Hutton - 9
Hanley - 7
Martin - 7
Mulgrew - 8

Interestingly he gave Muller , who scored twice and set up the third , a 7.

I would suggest that partcular journo was either not at the game or had been partaking in too much free hospitality. :greengrin

Hutton a 9, dear oh dear. :faf:

[EdinMike]

Mulgrew - cuckoo

Guy is a dud and in all honesty Paterson should be put in ahead of Hutton, as much as it pains me to say...

[Brightside]

Did you and your Celtic supporting work mate see the ground Scott covered last night?! Lennon had him as his captain, WGS the same for the national team.... If he doesn't have the legs anymore why would pros who really know the game have him as captain far less play the lad?! I know who I would listen to.

and how often did he get the tackle in to stop the German attack? and then how many attacks did he kick off. He's be carrying injuries for years. Lennon and WGS pick him as Captain as he has the correct attitude to be a Captain. Oh and Lennon is a prize prik who happily have players getting pi44ed in bars the night before games. Ive had the misfortune of being in the same hotel at the celtic squad on occasion.

I'm sorry if he's your pal but he simply cannot perform at the highest level.

[JimBHibees]

and how often did he get the tackle in to stop the German attack? and then how many attacks did he kick off. He's be carrying injuries for years. Lennon and WGS pick him as Captain as he has the correct attitude to be a Captain. Oh and Lennon is a prize prik who happily have players getting pi44ed in bars the night before games. Ive had the misfortune of being in the same hotel at the celtic squad on occasion.

I'm sorry if he's your pal but he simply cannot perform at the highest level.

Did they beat Hibs the day after though? :greengrin

[J-C]

So their game plan was to keep the score low and only get enough to scrape a win? Surely not. Why wouldn't the want to score more?

I don't think they got out of 2nd gear tbh, we rode our luck a few times and if they really played to full capabilities they could easily have scored more.

[Dalianwanda]

I don't think they got out of 2nd gear tbh, we rode our luck a few times and if they really played to full capabilities they could easily have scored more.

Whos to say they had another gear, may have been one of those days where they didn't click...Its all conjecture apart from the fact we had chances to knick a point & didn't..But then I suppose thats the point of a discussion forum :wink:

[magpie1892]

Seems the consensus that the defence was murder last night is not shared by the Scotsman journalist covering the game. He gave the following rating in the paper today:

Hutton - 9
Hanley - 7
Martin - 7
Mulgrew - 8

Interestingly he gave Muller , who scored twice and set up the third , a 7.

This is why The Scotsman sells 22,000 copies a day (and falling) and got bumped out of their purpose-built offices by a video games company.

[Mikey09]

He did get taken off though which is a bit of an indictment for a captain. Although he did alot of running he was off the pace as was McArthur. The midfield looked thrown together to be honest and IMO didnt really work well what with McArthur getting caught out for first goal and Maloney 20 yards out of position for the second.

Really? I've seen that happen loads of times with teams at club and international level. He was taken off for tactical reasons not for the fact "he's no got the legs anymore."




and how often did he get the tackle in to stop the German attack? and then how many attacks did he kick off. He's be carrying injuries for years. Lennon and WGS pick him as Captain as he has the correct attitude to be a Captain. Oh and Lennon is a prize prik who happily have players getting pi44ed in bars the night before games. Ive had the misfortune of being in the same hotel at the celtic squad on occasion.

I'm sorry if he's your pal but he simply cannot perform at the highest level.


Scott is picked as captain as he has the correct attitude?! Nothing else no? Nothing to do with his ability as a football player? How many other teams way better than us have failed to contain the Germans? I hear this pish that Germany could have upped the tempo any time they wanted and scored 4 or 5 more. Why didn't they then? Yes we made mistakes last night but that's because top players force you to do that. Some need a reality check. And this myth re Lennon being a prick. He is passionate, good company and most importantly when it comes to football, knowledgable.

[liamh2202]

Mulgrew, Hutton & Hanley - not international class.

Brown has been anonymous for last three matches but it's alright because he has a focussed expression on his face in the build up.

Fletcher looks low on morale (can hardly blame him giving how *****e Sunderland are these days) and is not the right option to play up top (is Griffiths...dunno) One man who isn't is Chris Martin, he's an imposter and seemed intent on just fouling the Germans last night.

I'd like to see us play Ritchie more - looks a good player and comfortable on the ball. Perhaps play him in just behind striker with Maloney and Anya on either flank?

WE CAN STILL DO IT!

Is Jordan Rhodes and Ross mcormack injured?

[liamh2202]

Mulgrew - cuckoo

Guy is a dud and in all honesty Paterson should be put in ahead of Hutton, as much as it pains me to say...

Surely Lee Wallace I'd a better lb option?

[JimBHibees]

Really? I've seen that happen loads of times with teams at club and international level. He was taken off for tactical reasons not for the fact "he's no got the legs anymore."






Scott is picked as captain as he has the correct attitude?! Nothing else no? Nothing to do with his ability as a football player? How many other teams way better than us have failed to contain the Germans? I hear this pish that Germany could have upped the tempo any time they wanted and scored 4 or 5 more. Why didn't they then? Yes we made mistakes last night but that's because top players force you to do that. Some need a reality check. And this myth re Lennon being a prick. He is passionate, good company and most importantly when it comes to football, knowledgable.

Do you honestly think he was taken off for tactical reasons? No chance.

[Allant1981]

Do you honestly think he was taken off for tactical reasons? No chance.

He just wasnt good enough last night, no idea how he gets on for celtic but ive not seen him have a really good game for scotland in a long time

[Pretty Boy]

How gutted must San Marino be?

1st away goal in 14 years and heading for a draw before Lithuania get a 92nd minute winner.

[Sir David Gray]

How gutted must San Marino be?

1st away goal in 14 years and heading for a draw before Lithuania get a 92nd minute winner.

That would be quite annoying.

[Mikey09]

Do you honestly think he was taken off for tactical reasons? No chance.


Yes!! Went from 5 in the middle to straight 4-4-2 with Martin on up front with Fletcher. Strachan just went for it sacrificing Scott. As soon as they changed it the whole game opened up. Or maybe it was cause Scott's no got the legs anymore?! :rolleyes:

[Just_Jimmy]

How gutted must San Marino be?

1st away goal in 14 years and heading for a draw before Lithuania get a 92nd minute winner.

Won me £115 quid though

[JimBHibees]

Yes!! Went from 5 in the middle to straight 4-4-2 with Martin on up front with Fletcher. Strachan just went for it sacrificing Scott. As soon as they changed it the whole game opened up. Or maybe it was cause Scott's no got the legs anymore?! :rolleyes:

Has he ever been taken off before? Personally never said he didn't have the legs however he definitely didn't play well either v Georgia or Germany IMO. The obvious sub would have been Morrison who seemed desperate to get a red card.

[blackpoolhibs]

How is it that half the team should not have played as they are either crap or their legs have gone, and those saying this are convinced the players who would have replaced them would have done better.

Yet the same folk are also saying the Germans never got out of 2nd gear, are those players we've put in as replacement for all the dross worth another 2 or 3 gears?

The Germans have made much better teams than us look poor, we've had one bad result and are still in with a great chance, yes with these same players.

[Mikey09]

How is it that half the team should not have played as they are either crap or their legs have gone, and those saying this are convinced the players who would have replaced them would have done better.

Yet the same folk are also saying the Germans never got out of 2nd gear, are those players we've put in as replacement for all the dross worth another 2 or 3 gears?

The Germans have made much better teams than us look poor, we've had one bad result and are still in with a great chance, yes with these same players.


Correct!! Do we all really think Strachan would say, "Right Broony! You've no got the legs anymore so what I'm gonna do is stick you in against the best midfield in the world. Now, they will have most of the ball so we're gonna have to work our baws off! I know you Dinnae have the legs so erm... Just dae yer best!" Believe it or not, the Germans are a decent side who have the capability to play against ANY formation and game plan... Just ask the Brazilian side in the last World Cup how they got on?! Jesus.

[jacomo]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

[Kato]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

I think there was far more xenophobic terms applied in the WWII than putting "the" in front of "germans".

I don't see the xenophobia at all tbh.

[marinello59]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Eh?

[Mikey09]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.


Jesus Christ... I've read it all now on this forum.:rolleyes:

[Hannah_hfc]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.
Have you not confused this with 'ze' instead of 'the' which no-one on this thread has done?

Nothing offensive at all with putting 'the' in front of a nation. Six nations rugby it can be heard all the time - the French, the Welsh, the Italians etc.



Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

[J-C]

How is it that half the team should not have played as they are either crap or their legs have gone, and those saying this are convinced the players who would have replaced them would have done better.

Yet the same folk are also saying the Germans never got out of 2nd gear, are those players we've put in as replacement for all the dross worth another 2 or 3 gears?

The Germans have made much better teams than us look poor, we've had one bad result and are still in with a great chance, yes with these same players.


I never watched friday's game but by all accounts we were poor nearly all over the pitch, I don't think anyone expected us to win on monday, probably best we could hope for was a sneaky draw. Apart from the defence on monday, I thought we competed not to bad to an extent, midfield fought hard and at times we we broke quickly but in general anything we were going to get was from a set piece as we never had the nous to score from open play.

The annoying thing is we raised our game enough to compete against Germany, if we had applied the same gumption on the friday, we wouldn't be having this post mortem.

[Sudds_1]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Not sure I understand your concerns here............how is this any different from terms like - "the English" "The Dutch" "the Croats" "The italians" etc etc....the list is endless.

If they were referred to as the "Krauts" you would have a point................ but no-one is referring to them as that , or indeed any other label.

Think you need to be a little less sensitive mate. Far worse things have been said in the cause on xenophobia!

[CockneyRebel]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.


You really need to get out more.

[mim]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Hmmmmm. So, 'a battling display from the Scots' is xenophobic, is it?

[easty]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

15410

[superfurryhibby]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

He loaded guns and ran off home for his tea.

Quality whoosh moment there methinks..........surely:confused:

The Georgia game was unfortunate. Being as a moderate as we are, we had to have one dire performance in the group. Pity it was a game we expected to have won.

Strachan has got the most out of the squad overall, given how limited they are. Scotland fans are desperate for something to alleviate the pain of never qualifying, it's a sair one, but fairly predictable too.

[cabbageandribs1875]

You really need to get out more.



maybe best/safer if he stays indoors :greengrin

[Brightside]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

so we don't say The French, The Italians?

[Peevemor]

so we don't say The French, The Italians?

Not if they're Germans - sorry, from Germany.


http://38.media.tumblr.com/54f82a0e6de98e5b442f17856aed7552/tumblr_mr90rfwTDy1sy769zo4_400.gif

[Andy74]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Come on now. I think you are way off the mark on this one.

[Brightside]

Not if they're Germans - sorry, from Germany.


http://38.media.tumblr.com/54f82a0e6de98e5b442f17856aed7552/tumblr_mr90rfwTDy1sy769zo4_400.gif

The Rangers?

[HappyHanlon]

Ive highlighted the bit of that sentence that just deserves a reply. The whole team were out of sorts against Georgia not just Scott. Last night I thought him McCarthur and Morrison were fantastic against players considered some of the best in the world. Here's a question... If, as you are implying, Scott should have been dropped, who would you have played in that particular position that is better than him?!
The second part of that sentence is just a stupid thing to say.

:cbstop being so precious....precious!

From the squad that was selected, I would have played Darren Fletcher ahead of Brown. Brown can't handle the big games as Malmo match showed.

[Halifaxhibby]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.


Wind yer neck in mate!!!!, I wouldn't find it xenophobic if we were referred to as 'the scots' put your liberal EU agenda away!!, its a football fans forum!!!

[Alfred E Newman]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

I thought I had read it all on here but this takes the biscuit. Absolute tripe.

[Newry Hibs]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Don Howe referred to the Spanish football team as 'the Spain'. Not sure how this fits in.

[jacomo]

so we don't say The French, The Italians?

Of course we do, but not exclusively.

There is a subtle distinction here, reinforced by people like Alan Shearer, to imply that 'the Germans' are not merely better at football, but somehow different from the rest of us. It is a conscious or unconscious attempt to try and undermine their achievements.

However, the semantics of this have clearly gone over everybody's head so I will leave it at that!

[Kato]

However, the semantics of this have clearly gone over everybody's head so I will leave it at that!

No. The semantics of what you are claiming just don't exist. It's impossible to talk about a country and it's inhabitants at length without using the term "the" -who-ever- unless you jump through some very complicated grammatical hoops.

There is zero xenophobia in the term.

[easty]

Of course we do, but not exclusively.

There is a subtle distinction here, reinforced by people like Alan Shearer, to imply that 'the Germans' are not merely better at football, but somehow different from the rest of us. It is a conscious or unconscious attempt to try and undermine their achievements.

However, the semantics of this have clearly gone over everybody's head so I will leave it at that!

Are you trying to make some kind of nazi-eugenics point? :confused::confused:

[Sir David Gray]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Speechless.
15411

[jacomo]

Are you trying to make some kind of nazi-eugenics point? :confused::confused:

Er, no! Not at all.

The inference is similar as when referring to 'foreigners' in our game - that they have looser morals and are more likely to cheat.

[Kato]

Er, no! Not at all.

The inference is similar as when referring to 'foreigners' in our game - that they have looser morals and are more likely to cheat.

Bollards.

[jacomo]

There is zero xenophobia in the term.

To be clear, I am not accusing anyone on here of being xenophobic.

However, there has been a historical prejudice in the way English football has referred to German football.

[jacomo]

Bollards.

Really? You deny that football commentators / pundits / managers have tried to imply that foreigners are dirty cheats, in comparison to our 'honest lads'?

You are talking bollards here.

[blackpoolhibs]

15412

[Kato]

Really? You deny that football commentators / pundits / managers have tried to imply that foreigners are dirty cheats, in comparison to our 'honest lads'?

You are talking bollards here.

No. I'm denying that there is any malice in using the word "the" in front of the word "germans". Whether Alan Shearer or whoever uses the term doesn't concern me.

I'm also denying that you have the right to define the term or ask that "we" should stop using it because of what you imagine Alan Shearer et al are thinking whilst they use it.

The very idea that anyone can see xenophobia in the words "the germans" is laughable.

It's not even "political correctness gone mad" or whatever term bigots use to excuse their language, it's just an incomprehensible assertion.

[Thecat23]

What the **** has happened to this thread 😂 Some people need to lighten up a little. The world really has gone mad if saying "we are playing the Germans" is offending folk.

We're playing "the English" soon too is that allowed? Anyway Germany were miles ahead of us and never looked in danger of losing even at 1-1 or 2-2. Strachan ****ed up and we may or may not now qualify either way we blew it in Georgia. Roll on the World Cup qualifiers!

[jacomo]

No. I'm denying that there is any malice in using the word "the" in front of the word "germans". Whether Alan Shearer or whoever uses the term doesn't concern me.

I'm also denying that you have the right to define the term or ask that "we" should stop using it because of what you imagine Alan Shearer et al are thinking whilst they use it.

The very idea that anyone can see xenophobia in the words "the germans" is laughable.

It's not even "political correctness gone mad" or whatever term bigots use to excuse their language, it's just an incomprehensible assertion.

I'm not defining anything. But denying someone the right to make a request is spectacularly dumb. Especially in the context of an online forum.

But as I said before, this is clearly lost on you and others on here so don't worry yourself about it any further.

[Iain G]

I mentioned the Germans once but I think I got away with it...

[jacomo]

I mentioned the Germans once but I think I got away with it...


:aok:

[Iain G]

Of course we do, but not exclusively.

There is a subtle distinction here, reinforced by people like Alan Shearer, to imply that 'the Germans' are not merely better at football, but somehow different from the rest of us. It is a conscious or unconscious attempt to try and undermine their achievements.

However, the semantics of this have clearly gone over everybody's head so I will leave it at that!

I think you are seeing sleights that aren't there! I don't think Shearer or Ian Wright or whoever are bright enough to imply anything.

Surely the nation of people from Germany can be referred to as The Germans, just as we are The Scots, Wales are The Welsh and That Manky Cheating Filthy Maroon Mob from Gorgie are The Hearts? :wink:

[Kato]

But as I said before, this is clearly lost on you and others on here so don't worry yourself about it any further.

Cool. Last mention of it from me is to say....

Nothing is lost on me.

Offensiveness within term just doesn't exist.

It's a perfectly normal and inoffensive use of language and grammar used every day and every time Germany plays any sport.

There are far more worrying things in the world than fretting over whether Germans will find the term "the Germans" offensive or not.

[blackpoolhibs]

How are we on The Rangers?

[Kato]

How are we on The Rangers?

Correct but too polite.

[xyz23jc]

How are we on The Rangers?

Much prefer the term The Huns! :greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

Surely the Germans is correct? Germany is a country, we were playing the citizens of that country, called Germans, not the actual country itself.

[J-C]

Of course we do, but not exclusively.

There is a subtle distinction here, reinforced by people like Alan Shearer, to imply that 'the Germans' are not merely better at football, but somehow different from the rest of us. It is a conscious or unconscious attempt to try and undermine their achievements.

However, the semantics of this have clearly gone over everybody's head so I will leave it at that!


Now if we all went around saying The Krauts, The Waps, The Spicks, The Froggies, etc then we may have a wee problem here but seeing as the players who play for that country are German ( except the polish ones obviously ) then they are classed as Germans and as such are allowed to be called the Germans.

[jacomo]

Now if we all went around saying The Krauts, The Waps, The Spicks, The Froggies, etc then we may have a wee problem here but seeing as the players who play for that country are German ( except the polish ones obviously ) then they are classed as Germans and as such are allowed to be called the Germans.

Blimey, more come backs than Duran Duran on this one.

In my original post I did say 'vaguely xenophobic', nothing more, and I'm sorry this observation is lost on you all!

[jacomo]

Surely the Germans is correct? Germany is a country, we were playing the citizens of that country, called Germans, not the actual country itself.

Yes of course it is. And entirely inoffensive.

However, when used exclusively, and uniquely, it is worth asking why.

[mmmmhibby]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Not another Professional Offence Taker???? Its a epidemic lol

[CockneyRebel]

Yes of course it is. And entirely inoffensive.

However, when used exclusively, and uniquely, it is worth asking why.

How is it used exclusively or uniquely? It is used far and wide, even by "the Germans" when they play "the English/Scots/Italians/anybody". So if "the Germans " use it to describe their opponents why can't we use it to describe them?
You are looking for trouble where there is none and I will waste no more time on this nonsense.

[Andy74]

Blimey, more come backs than Duran Duran on this one.

In my original post I did say 'vaguely xenophobic', nothing more, and I'm sorry this observation is lost on you all!

Saying it is lost on us all is just about worse than the initial comment.

We understand it very well thanks, it is just wrong.

Your related points about the attitudes to Germany and the stereotyping from folk like Shearer might actually be right but that's nothing to do with the use of the wording and certainly not a reason why we should be asked to lay off using it.

[jacomo]

How is it used exclusively or uniquely? It is used far and wide, even by "the Germans" when they play "the English/Scots/Italians/anybody". So if "the Germans " use it to describe their opponents why can't we use it to describe them?
You are looking for trouble where there is none and I will waste no more time on this nonsense.

And another one. Any more? :wink:

[Keith_M]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.


Is this meant to be a joke?

What on earth could possibly be offensive about it?


:confused:

[liamh2202]

Can we stop referring to them as 'the Germans' please?

We don't refer to other footballing nations in this way. It's vaguely xenophobic in tone, used by 'the English' in '2 world wars and 1 World Cup' mode to try and denigrate a fellow European nation.

The country is called Germany, it has strong and friendly ties to Scotland and the UK, and a very impressive footballing history.

Jees . they are the Germans though . just like when we play the Irish or the Americans. You are looking for something to be offended by that isn't tgere

[CockneyRebel]

And another one. Any more? :wink:

Meaning?

[jacomo]

Is this meant to be a joke?

What on earth could possibly be offensive about it?


:confused:

It's a semantics issue, as explained above.

As no one else on here seems to know what I'm talking about, please feel free to ignore it!

[hibee_nation]

It's a semantics issue, as explained above.

As no one else on here seems to know what I'm talking about, please feel free to ignore it!

We all know what you are on about just gies peace trying to make out we are all idiots because we think you are talking mince

[jacomo]

We all know what you are on about just gies peace trying to make out we are all idiots because we think you are talking mince

With the greatest respect, and without any insult intended, you really don't!

[CockneyRebel]

It's a semantics issue, as explained above.

As no one else on here seems to know what I'm talking about, please feel free to ignore it!

What a condescending statement - I don't think even you know what you mean - you have attempted to explain yourself several times and each time it makes less sense.

[Mr White]

Jees . they are the Germans though . just like when we play the Irish or the Americans. You are looking for something to be offended by that isn't tgere

You racist. We're the potato people you disrespectful ****er :grr:

[theonlywayisup]

Front page now updated, but copied below too!

Those qualified:
France
England
Iceland
Czech Republic
Austria

Those in qualifying spots:
Wales
Belgium
Slovakia
Spain
Germany
Poland
Switzerland
Northern Ireland
Romania
Russia
Norway
Italy
Portugal
Denmark

Those in play-off spots:
Turkey
Israel
Ukraine (but currently the best third placed nation so would qualify automatically)
Republic of Ireland
Slovenia
Hungary
Sweden
Croatia
Albania

[silverhibee]

Hibs play this weekend, Thank f***.


:flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

Hibs play this weekend, Thank f***.


:flag:

Its the Hibs. :wink:

[Andy74]

With the greatest respect, and without any insult intended, you really don't!

We do. You are just wrong!

[Keith_M]

It's a semantics issue, as explained above.

As no one else on here seems to know what I'm talking about, please feel free to ignore it!


If you post something stupid, you have to accept criticism, surely.


:dunno:

[jacomo]

What a condescending statement - I don't think even you know what you mean - you have attempted to explain yourself several times and each time it makes less sense.

By which I mean, it is the context that is of importance, not the words themselves. Something of a specialist subject in Scottish football, I'd have thought, but obviously not.

[jacomo]

If you post something stupid, you have to accept criticism, surely.


:dunno:

Yeah ok then.

[Eyrie]

It's a semantics issue, as explained above.

As no one else on here seems to know what I'm talking about, please feel free to ignore it!

Alternatively, if no-one else understands the point being made then maybe the jacomoseven is mistaken?

[silverhibee]

Its the Hibs. :wink:

Against the wasps as well, hope the Hibs are buzzing for the weekend. :greengrin

[xyz23jc]

the Hibs....:thumbsup::greengrin:stirrer:

[Sir David Gray]

I'm not defining anything. But denying someone the right to make a request is spectacularly dumb. Especially in the context of an online forum.

But as I said before, this is clearly lost on you and others on here so don't worry yourself about it any further.

I think that when every response you get to something you've said is negative and no-one can understand why you've said what you've said, you have to look at the original statement itself and question what you have said, rather than try to suggest that anyone else is too thick to understand what you've actually said in the first place.

I'm sorry but to suggest that referring to the football team which represents the country of Germany as "the Germans" is even remotely xenophobic is just complete and utter tosh.

I've read some drivel on here over the years (mainly on the Holy Ground) from people claiming that something or other is offensive when it really hasn't been in my view but this takes the biscuit. I actually thought you were joking earlier on, sadly that would appear not to be the case!

[Hibrandenburg]

:grr: Down with the definite article :grr:

[jacomo]

I think that when every response you get to something you've said is negative and no-one can understand why you've said what you've said, you have to look at the original statement itself and question what you have said, rather than try to suggest that anyone else is too thick to understand what you've actually said in the first place.

I'm sorry but to suggest that referring to the football team which represents the country of Germany as "the Germans" is even remotely xenophobic is just complete and utter tosh.

I've read some drivel on here over the years (mainly on the Holy Ground) from people claiming that something or other is offensive when it really hasn't been in my view but this takes the biscuit. I actually thought you were joking earlier on, sadly that would appear not to be the case!

Oh FFS I said ages ago that it was clear no one got my point so I would leave it. No more no less.

And then you all keep on and on and on and on and on about it.

No insults from me, but it's boring.

[Mikey09]

:cbstop being so precious....precious!

From the squad that was selected, I would have played Darren Fletcher ahead of Brown. Brown can't handle the big games as Malmo match showed.


I'll stop being precious when you stop posting rubbish... Scott has handled plenty big games but I'm sure you will ignore them just so it suits your arguement...

[J-C]

Oh FFS I said ages ago that it was clear no one got my point so I would leave it. No more no less.

And then you all keep on and on and on and on and on about it.

No insults from me, but it's boring.


Your problem when you said no one got your point was that you didn't then go on to explain yourself clearly enough, so that people would understand the point you were trying to make.

[jacomo]

Your problem when you said no one got your point was that you didn't then go on to explain yourself clearly enough, so that people would understand the point you were trying to make.

Fair enough.

[Smartie]

Against the wasps as well, hope the Hibs are buzzing for the weekend. :greengrin

Not sure you should be calling them the wasps.

That sounds a bit xenophobic to me, even if it is their actual club nickname.

[mikewynne]

I'm not defining anything. But denying someone the right to make a request is spectacularly dumb. Especially in the context of an online forum.

But as I said before, this is clearly lost on you and others on here so don't worry yourself about it any further.


In life, when everybody disagrees with you it's generally not because they are less intelligent than you, it's generally because you are wrong.

[theonlywayisup]

I feel this thread has gone severely off topic. The constant bickering on some threads is a real bore.

I'm going to close until the next set of games and hopefully then we can keep to the original topic which is to discuss Euro 2016 qualification.