Scotland's squad

[Unseen work]

Is it just me that is getting bored of the same players getting a game for years and producing very little and none of the youth players getting game time?

For me I think we need a bit of a freshen up. Let's start some of the more inexperienced/younger players.

For me guys like:
Ryan gauld
Christie
Stuart Armstrong
Griffiths
Ryan jack
Callum Patterson
Allan (if he gets game time at celtic and reproduces form)

[liamh2202]

You are far too forward thinking. I have no idea how selections are made because it certainly isn't on merit

[Scottie]

Absolute embarrassment of a squad.

Strachen will get an easy ride, if that was anybody else's team that performed like that tonight there would be calls all round for the manager to be sacked.

[Alfred E Newman]

Strachan has tried to build an effective team with the old faithful, players who are not the best but work well together as a team. Tonight they were found out big style and most of them looked the very ordinary players they are.

[Andy74]

At least these reactions after one match aren't confined to Hibs games!

Poor tonight but these players have done alright recently. Are the ones listed above any better right now for competitive matches?

[lyonhibs]

Callum Paterson ? Jeeeesus.

Agree in general though. Hutton and Morrison in particular were appalling

[Unseen work]

At least these reactions after one match aren't confined to Hibs games!

Poor tonight but these players have done alright recently. Are the ones listed above any better right now for competitive matches?

I'm basing it over the past couple of years. They've improved a bit recently but overall I still think we are very poor. And i dont think the players who we could try give a chance too would of done any worse than the 11 tonight. Building for the future at the same time.

Guys like Hutton etc have always been in the squad, we need to start basing th le squad on merit not on what league you play in.

[Unseen work]

Callum Paterson ? Jeeeesus.

Agree in general though. Hutton and Morrison in particular were appalling

Even though he is hearts. I think he is a very good player, good athlete and defends and attacks well. I think he will be the future right back

[Greenblood70]

For a player who's commanded decent fees and played at premiership level I never fail to be amazed by Alan Hutton's abject failure to defend properly. He is horrific.

[lyonhibs]

For a player who's commanded decent fees and played at premiership level I never fail to be amazed by Alan Hutton's abject failure to defend properly. He is horrific.

I daresay this isn't a good thing, but I am never surprised by the depths he plumbs. Awful, awful defender

[The Harp Awakes]

When are we ever going to learn that you get 1 chance of qualifying. Yes play it cagey against decent opposition but against the wee teams you need to go for it. Back to the Walter Smith and Craig Brown dark era. I think we have blown it again.

[lyonhibs]

When are we ever going to learn that you get 1 chance of qualifying. Yes play it cagey against decent opposition but against the wee teams you need to go for it. Back to the Walter Smith and Craig Brown dark era. I think we have blown it again.

That Craig Brown 'dark era' where we qualified for most things?

Aye, terrible so it was.

[The Harp Awakes]

That Craig Brown 'dark era' where we qualified for most things?

Aye, terrible so it was.

He qualified for 2 and failed to qualify for 2 in a day when Mickey Mouse teams were Mickey Mouse teams. Great record right enough. Iceland, Luxembourg, etc are no mugs now but were then and it's harder to qualify now. CB's football would make your eyes bleed. I was at most of the games and can remember them well.

[KWJ]

Like Berti Vogts did?

[KWJ]

When are we ever going to learn that you get 1 chance of qualifying. Yes play it cagey against decent opposition but against the wee teams you need to go for it. Back to the Walter Smith and Craig Brown dark era. I think we have blown it again.

You've picked 2 of the most successful Scotland managers in the last 20 years there, odd.

The current players are the ones who had us pushing for auto qualification from the position of 4th seeds. To drop them would've been mental.

I don't think Strachan got it right today, not by a long way, but an overhaul of the squad would be ludicrous. As has been said with positivity, we've built up a club atmosphere, why would you want to change that?

Poland game is huge now, we should still be looking to make the playoffs.

[KWJ]

Nightmare and very possible situation is Poland v Ireland in the last game where if neither side lose they both progress to championships or playoff. 0-0 much?

[Michael]

When are we ever going to learn that you get 1 chance of qualifying. Yes play it cagey against decent opposition but against the wee teams you need to go for it. Back to the Walter Smith and Craig Brown dark era. I think we have blown it again.

What? Two of the better Scotland managers of recent times surely?

Far, far better than vogts and potter - that's for sure.

[Sir David Gray]

He qualified for 2 and failed to qualify for 2 in a day when Mickey Mouse teams were Mickey Mouse teams. Great record right enough. Iceland, Luxembourg, etc are no mugs now but were then and it's harder to qualify now. CB's football would make your eyes bleed. I was at most of the games and can remember them well.

I would love to see Scotland play in a major tournament, regardless of what type of football we're playing. I was 10 the last time we qualified for a major tournament, assuming we have now messed up our chances of qualifying for Euro 2016, I'll be at least 30 before we're back in another tournament. For a country like Scotland to go at least 20 years without qualifying for a major tournament, is a total embarrassment.

I love hearing about times when we actually qualified for major events described as "dark eras". It's a bit like the tenures of John Hughes and Mixu Paatelainen being described as bad times for Hibs, when we used to continuously finish in the top six of the SPL and now we're playing in the Championship for the second successive season.

[The Harp Awakes]

I would love to see Scotland play in a major tournament, regardless of what type of football we're playing. I was 10 the last time we qualified for a major tournament, assuming we have now messed up our chances of qualifying for Euro 2016, I'll be at least 30 before we're back in another tournament. For a country like Scotland to go at least 20 years without qualifying for a major tournament, is a total embarrassment.

I love hearing about times when we actually qualified for major events described as "dark eras". It's a bit like the tenures of John Hughes and Mixu Paatelainen being described as bad times for Hibs, when we used to continuously finish in the top six of the SPL and now we're playing in the Championship for the second successive season.

Everything is relative Trig. If you had witnessed the Scotland teams of the 70s and 80s then endured games during the Craig Brown era, believe me they were painful. Walter Smith was a traitor for deserting his country and going back to the Huns, as correctly described at the time by the then French Manager, Domenech.

The point I was trying to make (obviously not too well) before the onslaught, was that when the opportunity comes along for Scotland to be successful we go back into our shell through negative tactics. Strachan has been positive and a breath of fresh air so far but he clearly got it wrong tonight in terms of tactics and team selection.

[Tyler Durden]

Everything is relative Trig. If you had witnessed the Scotland teams of the 70s and 80s then endured games during the Craig Brown era, believe me they were painful. Walter Smith was a traitor for deserting his country and going back to the Huns, as correctly described at the time by the then French Manager, Domenech.

The point I was trying to make (obviously not too well) before the onslaught, was that when the opportunity comes along for Scotland to be successful we go back into our shell through negative tactics. Strachan has been positive and a breath of fresh air so far but he clearly got it wrong tonight in terms of tactics and team selection.

I know what you mean and I agree about our mentality, we are never ruthless. Even looking back to the Ireland game, we were a bit too satisfied with a draw.

I think it's difficult to criticise this squad prior to tonight. But they need to realise that in these campaigns, you can't afford a single slip up. Losing in Germany is fine but if you fail to beat teams ranked beneath you, it's pretty much game over.

We're now relying on Ireland slipping up to get 3rd I think

[Sir David Gray]

Everything is relative Trig. If you had witnessed the Scotland teams of the 70s and 80s then endured games during the Craig Brown era, believe me they were painful. Walter Smith was a traitor for deserting his country and going back to the Huns, as correctly described at the time by the then French Manager, Domenech.

The point I was trying to make (obviously not too well) before the onslaught, was that when the opportunity comes along for Scotland to be successful we go back into our shell through negative tactics. Strachan has been positive and a breath of fresh air so far but he clearly got it wrong tonight in terms of tactics and team selection.

I agree totally with the bit in bold.

Tonight's performance and result was extremely disappointing.

[Ryan69]

For a player who's commanded decent fees and played at premiership level I never fail to be amazed by Alan Hutton's abject failure to defend properly. He is horrific.

I'm surprised you even see him play....must play football at most 10 times a year!

Every player in the squad should be playing because they are performing! NOT just cause its so and so and he is valued at x amount!

[Spudster]

Like Berti Vogts did?
As hopeless as he was with media his record wasn't THAT bad (got us to the playoffs), especially when you consider the mess Brown left us in. The end of Browns era had us playing guys that literally didn't have a club!?

[craigmounthibby]

I daresay this isn't a good thing, but I am never surprised by the depths he plumbs. Awful, awful defender

He's a cheat too. Punts the ball past a player, gets touched when running round him and goes down like he's been shot. It's utterly embarrassing that he gets picked to represent my country.

[PeterboroHibee]

Whilst I think Strachan has done reasonably well so far, I do agree with the general point of this thread that more of the younger guys should be getting chances. Strachan completely wastes friendy games in my opinion by selecting the same 13-14 players, and whenever he calls up a youngster (such as Gauld), it tends to be a token effort and they never play.

What surprised/terrified me most from last night was that there was pretty much no creative player (apart from Maloney, Ritchie and possibly Griffiths) in the entire squad. After Georgia got their goal they were quite content to sit in whenever Scotland had the ball, and Strachan's response to that was to bring on Forrest, who can only really beat a man with pace.

[WoreTheGreen]

He's a cheat too. Punts the ball past a player, gets touched when running round him and goes down like he's been shot. It's utterly embarrassing that he gets picked to represent my country.

Spot on been saying it for years no ability to beat a player so knocks the ball past opponent so eiher claims obstuction or dives a cheat all day long

[GreenOnions]

I actually thought Scotland played pretty well until Georgia scored and that we had been the better team by some distance. We were a little unlucky not to have scored ourselves by then IMO. Once Georgia scored they grew in confidence and were happy to allow us possession in front of them. We just didn't have enough quality middle to front to create more opportunities.

Whilst I agree with the general point that more younger prospects could be introduced (Armstrong and Mackay-Steven in particular spring to mind) I find it hard to believe that many armchair observers would have picked a better team than started last night.

Unfortunately for us Anya just didn't do it last night. He did deserve his place though I'd argue but, if he was fit, Armstrong might have been a good sub to bring on for him. Fletcher and Naismith are both regular starters in the Premier League and have performed well for us together recently. I also thought bringing on Forrest was a good move. Morrison and Maloney are good football players but again, just didn't have the quality last night with the final ball so perhaps a case could be made for someone like MacKay-Steven or Forrest to have started wide right in place of one of those two. I take the point re Hutton and would have started Whittaker if it were up to me but I imagine that Strachan feels Hutton's defending is better.

All in all I would argue that the starting eleven was an understandable selection - although I would maybe have changed a couple of positions.

[PeterboroHibee]

I actually thought Scotland played pretty well until Georgia scored and that we had been the better team by some distance. We were a little unlucky not to have scored ourselves by then IMO. Once Georgia scored they grew in confidence and were happy to allow us possession in front of them. We just didn't have enough quality middle to front to create more opportunities.

Whilst I agree with the general point that more younger prospects could be introduced (Armstrong and Mackay-Steven in particular spring to mind) I find it hard to believe that many armchair observers would have picked a better team than started last night.

Unfortunately for us Anya just didn't do it last night. He did deserve his place though I'd argue but, if he was fit, Armstrong might have been a good sub to bring on for him. Fletcher and Naismith are both regular starters in the Premier League and have performed well for us together recently. I also thought bringing on Forrest was a good move. Morrison and Maloney are good football players but again, just didn't have the quality last night with the final ball so perhaps a case could be made for someone like MacKay-Steven or Forrest to have started wide right in place of one of those two. I take the point re Hutton and would have started Whittaker if it were up to me but I imagine that Strachan feels Hutton's defending is better.

All in all I would argue that the starting eleven was an understandable selection - although I would maybe have changed a couple of positions.

We didnt have a shot on target so I dont think we were unlucky. We were okay before Georgia scored, then became a bit of a shambles - sloppy posession, slack passing and a general lack of ideas. Also, as Ive said above, I dont see how bringing on Forrest was a good move. Similar to Anya his game is predominantly about his pace, which was never going to work against a good defensive team who were sitting on a lead.

The starting 11 was predictable based on Strachans loyalty to a handful of players, but it was, in my opinion, too negative for the opposition we were up against. All of them are hard working players but, Maloney aside, there was just no creativity.

[ancient hibee]

I actually thought Scotland played pretty well until Georgia scored and that we had been the better team by some distance. We were a little unlucky not to have scored ourselves by then IMO. Once Georgia scored they grew in confidence and were happy to allow us possession in front of them. We just didn't have enough quality middle to front to create more opportunities.

Whilst I agree with the general point that more younger prospects could be introduced (Armstrong and Mackay-Steven in particular spring to mind) I find it hard to believe that many armchair observers would have picked a better team than started last night.

Unfortunately for us Anya just didn't do it last night. He did deserve his place though I'd argue but, if he was fit, Armstrong might have been a good sub to bring on for him. Fletcher and Naismith are both regular starters in the Premier League and have performed well for us together recently. I also thought bringing on Forrest was a good move. Morrison and Maloney are good football players but again, just didn't have the quality last night with the final ball so perhaps a case could be made for someone like MacKay-Steven or Forrest to have started wide right in place of one of those two. I take the point re Hutton and would have started Whittaker if it were up to me but I imagine that Strachan feels Hutton's defending is better.

All in all I would argue that the starting eleven was an understandable selection - although I would maybe have changed a couple of positions.


I'm afraid neither Fletcher or Naismith are regular starters any more.(Sunderland tried to offload Fletcher and Norwich almost got Naismith)and Maloney is just back in the country.I think it was a poor selection and was never going to get us goals.

[gegs70]

I'm afraid neither Fletcher or Naismith are regular starters any more.(Sunderland tried to offload Fletcher and Norwich almost got Naismith)and Maloney is just back in the country.I think it was a poor selection and was never going to get us goals.

Did Armstrong not pull out of the squad due to injury? But I felt we lacked a player that could break down a team that was trying to shut up shop for 90 minutes and hit on the break! We don't really have the inventive type player.....

[Frazerbob]

At least these reactions after one match aren't confined to Hibs games!

Poor tonight but these players have done alright recently. Are the ones listed above any better right now for competitive matches?

Exactly. The feeling amongst the TA coming out the Aviva Stadium just a couple of months ago was that we were going to qualify automatically.....for the first time since 98. The atmosphere was buzzing. One game later and the knives are out. Yes, a poor performance on so many levels but lets just remember where we were before GS came in and let's not forget how difficult a group we are in. If we get third, which is still very possible, it will be success.

[CorrieHibs]

For tomorrow my team would be

Gordon

Whittaker Hanley Martin Robbo

Fletch McArthur

Maloney Morrison Anya

Naismith

[CockneyRebel]

Is it just me that is getting bored of the same players getting a game for years and producing very little and none of the youth players getting game time?

For me I think we need a bit of a freshen up. Let's start some of the more inexperienced/younger players.

For me guys like:
Ryan gauld
Christie
Stuart Armstrong
Griffiths
Ryan jack
Callum Patterson
Allan (if he gets game time at celtic and reproduces form)



McArthur should be in.

[Smartie]

I'm always surprised how much grief Hutton seems to get.

I've never really liked him or rated him at club level but I think he's been an excellent Scotland player. He has his defensive flaws, no doubt about it but he's been excellent going forward - often Scotland's most potent attacking threat - for years.

The biggest problem with him has often been his lack of club football, meaning he's been a bit rusty when the Internationals come round but I don't think he's let Scotland down often.

He was brutal the other night though, and with 20/20 hindsight Whittaker would have been a far better option.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm always surprised how much grief Hutton seems to get.

I've never really liked him or rated him at club level but I think he's been an excellent Scotland player. He has his defensive flaws, no doubt about it but he's been excellent going forward - often Scotland's most potent attacking threat - for years.

The biggest problem with him has often been his lack of club football, meaning he's been a bit rusty when the Internationals come round but I don't think he's let Scotland down often.

He was brutal the other night though, and with 20/20 hindsight Whittaker would have been a far better option.

I think that may be part of Scotland's problem. Too many players picked on previous Scotland form rather than current form.

I understand that to an extent with regards to trying to create a 'club atmosphere' but there has to be a balance. James McArthur is performing week in week out for a good EPL team yet doesn't get a look in, Griffiths is banging in goals lefty, right and centre yet Fletcher (6 goals in 35 games for Sunderland this season so far and last, 4 goals total for Scotland) starts ahead of him. Steven Whittaker has performed consistently in the Championship for Norwich and, last weekend excepted, has played well since returning to the EPL but is omitted at the expense of Alan Hutton who has had a bit of a nomadic few years and been pretty heavily criticised by Villa fans at the start of this season.

It seems to me there has to be a balance between a club atmosphere and a jobs for the boys scenario.

[bod]

Exactly. The feeling amongst the TA coming out the Aviva Stadium just a couple of months ago was that we were going to qualify automatically.....for the first time since 98. The atmosphere was buzzing. One game later and the knives are out. Yes, a poor performance on so many levels but lets just remember where we were before GS came in and let's not forget how difficult a group we are in. If we get third, which is still very possible, it will be success.

:agree:

always thought play off was possible at the start of the campaign & anything above a bonus.
us & the germans would've been happy with 4 points out of these two games, hopefully they'll take their eye off the ball thinking they've nearly qualified & we cash in

[GreenOnions]

We didnt have a shot on target so I dont think we were unlucky. We were okay before Georgia scored, then became a bit of a shambles - sloppy posession, slack passing and a general lack of ideas. Also, as Ive said above, I dont see how bringing on Forrest was a good move. Similar to Anya his game is predominantly about his pace, which was never going to work against a good defensive team who were sitting on a lead.

The starting 11 was predictable based on Strachans loyalty to a handful of players, but it was, in my opinion, too negative for the opposition we were up against. All of them are hard working players but, Maloney aside, there was just no creativity.

I don't really think we are disagreeing about too much here. Maybe Strachan is loyal to some players because they have delivered for him in previous games? I didn't say we were unlucky overall. I said we were a little unlucky not to have scored before they did. I don't think many would disagree that we were the better team up until that point. I accept that we hadn't had a shot on target but we had tested their defence in the first half a lot more than they'd tested ours and looked the more likely of the two teams to break the deadlock.

I agree with your general point about introducing more younger "creative" players to the squad. However, unfortunately the most difficult part of football is the final ball and we just don't have a lot of players in Scotland who can do that expertly to international quality.

That is the reason I say that I really don't think many people would have used a hugely different starting eleven than that which began the game on Friday. Our options are limited. I would have been inclined to have had one or two more creative players on the bench and maybe started one or two different players but I'm not convinced it would have made that much difference. We are never going to score a barrowload of goals. If we play well - we may win by a goal or two but if things don't go quite to plan we are never going to have the comfort of a few goals of an advantage.

[JimBHibees]

Even though he is hearts. I think he is a very good player, good athlete and defends and attacks well. I think he will be the future right back

He has a chronic lack of ability though, nowhere near international standard IMO.

[JimBHibees]

Exactly. The feeling amongst the TA coming out the Aviva Stadium just a couple of months ago was that we were going to qualify automatically.....for the first time since 98. The atmosphere was buzzing. One game later and the knives are out. Yes, a poor performance on so many levels but lets just remember where we were before GS came in and let's not forget how difficult a group we are in. If we get third, which is still very possible, it will be success.

Tend to agree though thought the performance in Ireland wasnt great either and some of the selections mystifying Forsyth in and Anya out. I think we were happy with a point in that game which may come back to haunt us.

Friday was very poor and a very poor goal to lose which put us on the backfoot. I wouldnt rule out Georgia getting something in Dublin which could put us in a stronger position. Dont see us getting anything tonight as think Germany going forward are very good.