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matty_f
02-09-2015, 11:26 PM
This is the first of a series of blogs I've written looking at the changes at Hibs since the Petrie protests in June '14, from the perspective of people working within the club.

To kick off, this is an interview with Frank Dougan.

I'd just like to post a thank you to Colin Millar, Frank Dougan, Amit Moudgil, and Stephen Dunn for their time and help in making these interviews happen.

http://hibscomebackison.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/changing-times-frank-dougan.html

gazman
02-09-2015, 11:36 PM
Excellent read and he is so right about the negativity its a marathon not a sprint and the board are doing things the right way,big Frank made so many valid points there that im sure most of us agree with,onwards and upwards

NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2015, 12:56 AM
I get Frank's passion .... I really do .... and I agree with everything he has said regarding progress in the last 14 months ..... But he is getting himself a bit mixed up between his passion as a supporter and how a director of a football club has to approach things, fan or not.

As a fan who will stick with Hibs no matter what I also don't have a lot of time for folk who find any number of reasons to stay away and don't back the club from the stands at a time when they are needed most ..... In my opinion the measure of a true fan is one who will put up with the rubbish and keep going because they love the club, not because of its results, not because it does or doesn't win things and not because it plays beautiful football, but because its their club no matter what. We are the ones who in the end will ensure that the 'fans' who need a reason to come back will have a club to come back to ............ that for me is an indisputable fact.

But, as a simple fan that is my prerogative. That is not a prerogative that directors or owners of a club can, or should, enjoy. No matter how passionate you feel about the subject, as a director you simply cannot berate fans for not turning up, and you certainly do not call fans on social media 'keyboard warriors' ..... You plead, you beg, you incentivise where you can, and you do everything you can to improve performance and results on the pitch. But you simply must not do anything which will alienate stay away fans who for one reason or another don't feel motivated to come and watch the team.

If Frank Dougan Hibs fan gets torn in, his targets say GTF and a day later forget about it.

If Frank Dougan Hibs director gets torn in, his targets might just as likely go, 'how dare you lecture me after the ***** Hibs have served up for nearly a decade and from the lofty position of a second season in the 2nd tier of Scottish football and from 5th place at that.

Page 1 chapter 1 of how to run a successful football club .... every fan, or potential fan, is gold dust ..... butter them up, kiss their ***** .... but under no circumstances tell them that they are part of the problem .... and do not lecture them about being negative when the club you are running has won the 3rd best trophy in the country once in 23 years and that is the sum total of its success ..... having been relegated twice in the same period.

Luv ya Frank .... but don't let passion get in the way of pragmatism.

Slicer
03-09-2015, 01:01 AM
Thanks for that Matty :aok:

Congruence
03-09-2015, 06:01 AM
Very enjoyable read. Thanks for that

HibbyKeith
03-09-2015, 06:36 AM
Good read matty, look forward to the others.

Viva_Palmeiras
03-09-2015, 06:45 AM
This is the first of a series of blogs I've written looking at the changes at Hibs since the Petrie protests in June '14, from the perspective of people working within the club.

To kick off, this is an interview with Frank Dougan.

I'd just like to post a thank you to Colin Millar, Frank Dougan, Amit Moudgil, and Stephen Dunn for their time and help in making these interviews happen.

http://hibscomebackison.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/changing-times-frank-dougan.html

Great insight into the man and the next chapter in our Hibstory. Well done Matty.

Forza Fred
03-09-2015, 06:55 AM
I've known Frank for 45 years or so, and have known him to be very critical of boards, managers etc in the past.

Hence why I find his criticism of criticism itself by some, surprising.


Football fans in General will NEVER be satisfied to a degree where they will not criticise some aspect of things.....I'm sure even Barcelona fans, or some of them see things that they criticise, and Hibs last time I looked, weren't Barcelona!

I would hope his comments weren't fully representational of the attitude of the board in general......ie....along the lines of .."just what do these supporters really expect, don't they know we are doing a wonderful job?"

ozhibs
03-09-2015, 07:14 AM
I've known Frank for 45 years or so, and have known him to be very critical of boards, managers etc in the past.

Hence why I find his criticism of criticism itself by some, surprising.


Football fans in General will NEVER be satisfied to a degree where they will not criticise some aspect of things.....I'm sure even Barcelona fans, or some of them see things that they criticise, and Hibs last time I looked, weren't Barcelona!

I would hope his comments weren't fully representational of the attitude of the board in general......ie....along the lines of .."just what do these supporters really expect, don't they know we are doing a wonderful job?"

Maybe we criticise because we care and have put up with so much crap over the years that most of us have heard it all before.

Colr
03-09-2015, 07:19 AM
Excellent read and he is so right about the negativity its a marathon not a sprint and the board are doing things the right way,big Frank made so many valid points there that im sure most of us agree with,onwards and upwards

While we have been running a marathon, Hearts seem to have been running a sprint.

heretoday
03-09-2015, 07:41 AM
Maybe we criticise because we care and have put up with so much crap over the years that most of us have heard it all before.

Exactly. We have heard all of it before. I think it's time for the board to get on with running the club and the manager to run the team. Less PR talk and more onfield action please.

matty_f
03-09-2015, 07:50 AM
I've known Frank for 45 years or so, and have known him to be very critical of boards, managers etc in the past.

Hence why I find his criticism of criticism itself by some, surprising.


Football fans in General will NEVER be satisfied to a degree where they will not criticise some aspect of things.....I'm sure even Barcelona fans, or some of them see things that they criticise, and Hibs last time I looked, weren't Barcelona!

I would hope his comments weren't fully representational of the attitude of the board in general......ie....along the lines of .."just what do these supporters really expect, don't they know we are doing a wonderful job?"


Maybe we criticise because we care and have put up with so much crap over the years that most of us have heard it all before.

I don't think Frank is complaining or worried about criticism, he's someone that's very vocal when something is wrong himself. I think his concern is around the people who do nothing but criticise, and who refuse to acknowledge improvements. You'll see them on this forum, they might even reply to this post...

IMHO, I think it's important to differentiate constructive and reasonable criticism from perpetual complaining. One is helpful, the other clearly isn't.

hibs0666
03-09-2015, 07:52 AM
I don't think Frank is complaining or worried about criticism, he's someone that's very vocal when something is wrong himself. I think his concern is around the people who do nothing but criticise, and who refuse to acknowledge improvements. You'll see them on this forum, they might even reply to this post...

IMHO, I think it's important to differentiate constructive and reasonable criticism from perpetual complaining. One is helpful, the other clearly isn't.

Underwhelmed. :wink:

Viva_Palmeiras
03-09-2015, 08:21 AM
I don't think Frank is complaining or worried about criticism, he's someone that's very vocal when something is wrong himself. I think his concern is around the people who do nothing but criticise, and who refuse to acknowledge improvements. You'll see them on this forum, they might even reply to this post...

IMHO, I think it's important to differentiate constructive and reasonable criticism from perpetual complaining. One is helpful, the other clearly isn't.

The so-called "keyboard warriors" could consider volunteering for working together...
There are constructive ways - of which volunteering is one - to get better insight and put forward ideas. We have a forum now and representation Let's use it.

superfurryhibby
03-09-2015, 08:44 AM
Interesting interview, well done to Matty for getting this out.

I found Frank a bit contrary. As a director he doesn't go to Tynecastle? I would have thought that he would need to get over that one of he is representing the club ( the fans representative on the board in fact).

I also found it a bit odd that none of the four targets he identified included automatic promotion. It was definitely one of mine last season and remains the same this season. Ok, it's a challenge to say the least but let's not kid ourselves, that's the goal, although I'm sure we'll settle for going up via the play offs!

The bit about keyboard warriors etc. Naw mate! He needs to elaborate a bit on that if he wants us to see him as doing anything else but trot out the board line. Fact is that no one would give a toss about negative views if the club was doing as well as Frank describes in his hypothesis. The minority is a very small minority and I wouldn't give them that much credit for influencing others.

The reasons for the decline in attendances are complex and to link that and Internet is disingenuous. Try considering the high prices, the recent history of the clubs mismanagement ( with Petrie still lurking in the shadows), the underlying discontent about how fans have been treated ( probably not that differently to other clubs , but no doubt that we have not been properly valued in the past when it comes to the peripherals of our match day , ahem, "experience".

I would have liked to hear more about the work of the fans reps on the board, what have they changed and what are the targets for future improvement? Stay clear of being used for propaganda Frank, it will give you more credibility.

For me it's fair to say that we have invested in players, well done to the fans for putting their money where their mouths are. All he investors in the club deserve a huge thanks for their commitment We have a better squad than we have had for a good few years, a manager who is playing the right way and will hopefully have learned enough to make the difference this season.

As I say, an interesting piece. I wonder Matty, how proscribed were your questions? We're you able to ask Frank what you wanted or were there stipulations attached? It would add more value for future sessions if you were able to respond to the replies with a less passive stance?

Onion
03-09-2015, 08:49 AM
I don't think Frank is complaining or worried about criticism, he's someone that's very vocal when something is wrong himself. I think his concern is around the people who do nothing but criticise, and who refuse to acknowledge improvements. You'll see them on this forum, they might even reply to this post...

IMHO, I think it's important to differentiate constructive and reasonable criticism from perpetual complaining. One is helpful, the other clearly isn't.

Great to get this insight and have guys like Frank at the sharp end.

"Keyboard warriors" are obviously irking Hibs, but IMO they're giving too much credibility to these deflectors. They are not what's keeping people away. If Hibs think that, then they don't appreciate the extent of the damage done by successive managers, players and Board decisions before Stubbs. And Hearts resurrection doesn't help.

Frank can see the progress first hand and it's great that's he's excited by that, but he can't realistically expect absent fans to return on yet another promise. Only a winning team & good football will get fans back. That's where 100% ofl the clubs focus should be on.

matty_f
03-09-2015, 09:02 AM
Interesting interview, well done to Matty for getting this out.

I found Frank a bit contrary. As a director he doesn't go to Tynecastle? I would have thought that he would need to get over that one of he is representing the club ( the fans representative on the board in fact).

I also found it a bit odd that none of the four targets he identified included automatic promotion. It was definitely one of mine last season and remains the same this season. Ok, it's a challenge to say the least but let's not kid ourselves, that's the goal, although I'm sure we'll settle for going up via the play offs!

The bit about keyboard warriors etc. Naw mate! He needs to elaborate a bit on that if he wants us to see him as doing anything else but trot out the board line. Fact is that no one would give a toss about negative views if the club was doing as well as Frank describes in his hypothesis. The minority is a very small minority and I wouldn't give them that much credit for influencing others.

The reasons for the decline in attendances are complex and to link that and Internet is disingenuous. Try considering the high prices, the recent history of the clubs mismanagement ( with Petrie still lurking in the shadows), the underlying discontent about how fans have been treated ( probably not that differently to other clubs , but no doubt that we have not been properly valued in the past when it comes to the peripherals of our match day , ahem, "experience".

I would have liked to hear more about the work of the fans reps on the board, what have they changed and what are the targets for future improvement? Stay clear of being used for propaganda Frank, it will give you more credibility.

For me it's fair to say that we have invested in players, well done to the fans for putting their money where their mouths are. All he investors in the club deserve a huge thanks for their commitment We have a better squad than we have had for a good few years, a manager who is playing the right way and will hopefully have learned enough to make the difference this season.

As I say, an interesting piece. I wonder Matty, how proscribed were your questions? We're you able to ask Frank what you wanted or were there stipulations attached? It would add more value for future sessions if you were able to respond to the replies with a less passive stance?
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. :aok:
I was able to ask whatever i wanted, Frank was happy to answer.

jacomo
03-09-2015, 09:05 AM
Good interview. Frank doesn't hold back, eh?

It's an interesting point about the ST holders from last season who didn't renew this time. Is the fact Hearts are in a division above us a big factor? I guess it must be.

Tha Cabbage Kid
03-09-2015, 09:13 AM
met frank a couple of times too. think he is a good hibee. nice interview Matty.
:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

Peevemor
03-09-2015, 09:26 AM
Exactly. We have heard all of it before. I think it's time for the board to get on with running the club and the manager to run the team. Less PR talk and more onfield action please.

But does it not carry more clout given that it's coming from someone, known to many, who was elected to the board to represent his fellow supporters? As for the "less PR talk" comment - firstly he doesn't strike me as someone who 'does' PR and, secondly, is it not part of his remit to act as a liaison between the fans and the board? If he didn't say anything then he would (rightly IMO) get pelters.

superfurryhibby
03-09-2015, 09:34 AM
But does it not carry more clout given that it's coming from someone, known to many, who was elected to the board to represent his fellow supporters? As for the "less PR talk" comment - firstly he doesn't strike me as someone who 'does' PR and, secondly, is it not part of his remit to act as a liaison between the fans and the board? If he didn't say anything then he would (rightly IMO) get pelters.

It would carry more clout if Frank wasn't fuelling the myth.

I would like to hear a more "Frank" line on the reasons for the downturn in season tickets etc, keyboard warrior talk is not that helpful. In fact it's a bit too much like doing what you're told.

MrSmith
03-09-2015, 09:56 AM
It would carry more clout if Frank wasn't fuelling the myth.

I would like to hear a more "Frank" line on the reasons for the downturn in season tickets etc, keyboard warrior talk is not that helpful. In fact it's a bit too much like doing what you're told.


You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players. Everything feels bolt-on not building from however, there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!

flash
03-09-2015, 09:56 AM
It would carry more clout if Frank wasn't fuelling the myth.

I would like to hear a more "Frank" line on the reasons for the downturn in season tickets etc, keyboard warrior talk is not that helpful. In fact it's a bit too much like doing what you're told.
In your opinion. I agree with him that the constant negativity doesn't help at a time when we need all pulling in the same direction.

Bostonhibby
03-09-2015, 10:07 AM
It would carry more clout if Frank wasn't fuelling the myth.

I would like to hear a more "Frank" line on the reasons for the downturn in season tickets etc, keyboard warrior talk is not that helpful. In fact it's a bit too much like doing what you're told.

It was good to read the blog and long may it continue, the keyboard warrior talk is disrespectful, what are we meant to do in the context of the directors views? blindly accept them or say nothing in disagreement or end up branded keyboard warriors / negative? Kind of defeats the purpose of the interview if only positive noises are welcome.

Would sending a letter in be more acceptable? the club are rightly staying in touch with fans via the internet so its just about foreseeable that fans might respond in a similar way through various forums, using keyboards.

For what its worth there's a lot of overdue good stuff happening at last and I am happy with having Frank and Amit, the supporters on board but I agree with the very good post above about the difference between being a fan and being a director.

Peevemor
03-09-2015, 10:08 AM
You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players.

Since 'Bosman', all clubs have a much higher turnover of players than before. Also, the bulk of Hibs 1st team squad from last season are still there, in addition to some (hopefully) quality signings.


Everything feels bolt-on not building from however

Everthing that's been put in place since LD's arrival is about building from the bottom and continuity.


there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

The players that we've signed are on 2, 3 & (McGinn) 4 year contracts.


I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!

Neither do I.

SlickShoes
03-09-2015, 10:10 AM
If anything constant internet chatter while good or bad at least keeps me engaged with hibs when at times over the last few years I would have just switched off from it and not bothered going to some games. If everyone agreed on forums and twitter than no one would engage with anyone at all.

These people have always existed, they were in your local pub but maybe there was only one or two of them. Now they can engage with eachother on the internet so it may seem like there are a lot of these people or they are influencing others. To me he seems like a man that doesn't understand the internet.

" Alright we're in the same division but we're seeing better football, more attacking football." that line made me laugh, I have been at 2 games this season and watched another 2 on TV, we have not been playing well at all.

I don't know how you can not understand the 1300 people not renewing, countless times over the last 5 or 6 years people have been giving hibs a "one last chance" then I am out scenario, I suspect that staying in the championship for another year at SPL level prices (which are too much as it is) was too much for some people.

One of my worst moments as a hibs fan was losing that play off to rangers and the realisation that we are down there for another year, it was crushing and if I was a season ticket holder, the way I felt after that game would not have led me to renew my seat.

Peevemor
03-09-2015, 10:11 AM
It was good to read the blog and long may it continue, the keyboard warrior talk is disrespectful, what are we meant to do in the context of the directors views? blindly accept them or say nothing in disagreement or end up branded keyboard warriors / negative? Kind of defeats the purpose of the interview if only positive noises are welcome.

For what its worth there's a lot of overdue good stuff happening at last and I am happy with having Frank and Amit, the supporters on board but I agree with the very good post above about the difference between being a fan and being a director.

I don't think so at all. There's an endless amount of ignorant & unfounded crap posted on here and elsewhere, much of it far more disrespectful than anything Frank has said in the interview.

Bostonhibby
03-09-2015, 10:17 AM
I don't think so at all. There's an endless amount of ignorant & unfounded crap posted on here and elsewhere, much of it far more disrespectful than anything Frank has said in the interview.

Don't disagree with you at all, but hey, that's the internet.

I suppose what gets me is when reasoned criticism (or not outright happy clapping :greengrin) is dismissed as "keyboard warrior" and the like - Personally not upset by the gist of what Frank is saying. I rose to the keyboard warrior chat again.

NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2015, 10:20 AM
Exactly. We have heard all of it before. I think it's time for the board to get on with running the club and the manager to run the team. Less PR talk and more onfield action please.

As things stand the PR from Hibs is right on the button IMO ..... I also think there's not a great deal more the club could be doing to back the manager within the constraints of our budget, some of the players we have managed to attract is remarkable, considering the league we are in .... We have a lot of new players who like it or not still need time to get better as a unit, but the signs are good if last Saturday is anything to go by.

As I said previously ... My only problem with Frank's interview was that it contained some criticism of a section of our support ... As a member of our board he has to put his personal feelings aside on these things, and that includes being MIA at Tynecastle .... Unless of course they have a restraining order on him :greengrin

Mikey09
03-09-2015, 10:21 AM
I don't think so at all. There's an endless amount of ignorant & unfounded crap posted on here and elsewhere, much of it far more disrespectful than anything Frank has said in the interview.


Well said. Frank talking about people criticising the club? He means criticising for the sake of it. The club I'm sure would welcome criticism as long as there is a point to it and is constructive. Why would they or should they give the time of day to some utter drivel we have read on this forum and heard shouted at games?!

AL-Qaholik
03-09-2015, 10:28 AM
Frank's a top guy and we all know how much he bleeds green BUT he's giving this interview as a director of the club and, as such, is treading on very dangerous ground IMO.
Imagine if a non-fan-elected board member had come out and said folk's reasons for not renewing or buying season tickets were "petty". Or suggested that anyone who doesn't go to games has no right to criticise anything at the club? He'd be rightly rounded and held accountable. This is an interview with Frank the board member, but it's clearly Frank the Fan who is answering. FWIW, I think having someone like Frank on the board is absolutely invaluable to what they club are trying to achieve but the board as a whole, fan-reps very much included, are gonna have to be far less disrespectful in future interviews if they want to get the fans back on side...

JimBHibees
03-09-2015, 10:28 AM
Seems an incredibly high number of 1300 not to renew from last season to this. Personally thought last season was a huge improvement certainly in terms of the quality of football on show. Very surprised. I think Frank's ire is directed at the hugely unhelpful campaign orchestrated around about the start of the share issue which to me was damaging to the club as there were some serious allegations made which to me have never been proven to be anywhere near true.

superfurryhibby
03-09-2015, 10:30 AM
I don't think so at all. There's an endless amount of ignorant & unfounded crap posted on here and elsewhere, much of it far more disrespectful than anything Frank has said in the interview.

Boston point is valid, discontent is legitimate and we, the fan/customer/life and soul of the club, have the right to express a view.

There has been a lot of nonsense posted on here. However, this has led to some well informed responses. Guys like Caversham and Cropley was God have helped undermine said nonsense in a way that the board would have struggled to do so.

I was ( and still partially remain) sceptical about the way the club has been run over the STF years, but I also feel reassured that we are not being royally shafted. Without discussion and dissent, we may have struggled to put some of the nonsense to bed.

For the fans reps on the board it must be a fine line to tread. I think they have credibility and that is really important, but they must navigate carefullyif they aren't to be seen as a mouthpiece of the executive directors. I look forward to seeing and hearing more of them and hearing more about how the club is accommodating fans wishes. At this massively important period in our history it matters.

NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2015, 10:53 AM
Well said. Frank talking about people criticising the club? He means criticising for the sake of it. The club I'm sure would welcome criticism as long as there is a point to it and is constructive. Why would they or should they give the time of day to some utter drivel we have read on this forum and heard shouted at games?!

For a football club what you think and what you say cant always be the same thing. In the minds of those who post the negative stuff their point of view is just as valid as the next guys. As for folk shouting stuff at games ....... At least they are at the game .. there's plenty of folk out there saying nice stuff who still cant quite find the way to Leith on a Saturday .... which of the two groups are of more value to Hibs?

CallumLaidlaw
03-09-2015, 11:17 AM
You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players. Everything feels bolt-on not building from however, there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!

I find this quite interesting. I personally feel there is a better connection between fans and players than there's been for a number of years. The likes of Martin Boyle, Jason Cummings, Marvin Bartley now chat freely with the fans on social media. Boyle & Cummings joined some fans in the pub on Saturday night for a few drinks with Martin Boyle saying he done it because "its you guys that pay my wages". It's nice to think we have players that finally realise that. I certainly didnt feel that with the likes of Ryan McGivern in the squad. The visits to east mains allowed fans to chat with Stubbs, George Craig, etc, and get a real feel of what goes on at the training centre. The players all seem to be in it together, with a real bond between them and the coaching staff too.
I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.

As an aside, I don't have an issue with Frank the Director talking like Frank the Fan. We'd all be very quick to round on him if he came out with a load of pre-prepared director-speak. The whole point of a fan on the board is to react like a fan, talk like a fan surely.

As for the "keyboard warriors" comment - I think its something we can all relate to. I dont think its AS bad on here as it is on some of the facebook groups, especially where these people can tag the club into their comments. Some people literally have NOTHING positive to say about the club. Someone started a comment on one of the FB groups yesterday saying "so much for Hibs promise of spending the Scott Allan money" - of course, Mcgregor, McGeouch, Anier, Insall cost nothing weekly or in signing on fees!!

Bad Martini
03-09-2015, 11:29 AM
I find this quite interesting. I personally feel there is a better connection between fans and players than there's been for a number of years. The likes of Martin Boyle, Jason Cummings, Marvin Bartley now chat freely with the fans on social media. Boyle & Cummings joined some fans in the pub on Saturday night for a few drinks with Martin Boyle saying he done it because "its you guys that pay my wages". It's nice to think we have players that finally realise that. I certainly didnt feel that with the likes of Ryan McGivern in the squad. The visits to east mains allowed fans to chat with Stubbs, George Craig, etc, and get a real feel of what goes on at the training centre. The players all seem to be in it together, with a real bond between them and the coaching staff too.
I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.

:agree:

For sure.

As regards the interview and the afflicted punters who feel concerned/upset/slightly pissed off someone who loves the club would dare question other fans, I say, bollocks. Grow a pair and take it on the chin. This falls into two categories:

1) If you feel afflicted by the mans words because you sometimes vent fairly, on issues that piss you off - you're entitled to do that, nobody minds, most folk do it and I'd wager it shows that you give a toss. Fair play. Suggest the "keyboard warrior" thing was NOT aimed at you :agree:

2) If you feel afflicted by the mans words because you always vent fairly (or otherwise), on issues that piss you off and anything/everything you can - you're NOT entitled to do that, nobody gives a toss, most folk dont do it and I'd wager it shows that you are an arse and we dont need you anyway? Suggest the "keyboard warrior" was aimed at you but should've said "if you're no with us, you're against us ya torn faced gett" :aok:

This said, this could be why I never have and never will be elected to the board or any other position of diplomacy in fitba. :greengrin

In all seriousnes, if someone is giving up their time to better the club and tells how it is, thats fair enough in my book.

We're all Hibby's. Anyone who perenially moans is just (at best) ****ing boring and misguided and at worst, enjoying some odd and perverse joy from winding others up.

GGTTH

Jack
03-09-2015, 11:32 AM
I think Frank is reflecting LDs frustration at supporters not being able to draw a line in the sand from the previous regime and their disasters and moving on together with the renewed hope and optimism of those currently running the club.

I do too, at times, I got my first season ticket for years on the back of seeing those changes and a tidal wave of optimism.

But equally I suppress a rage for what happened to us, one of the advantages of having a multi personality issue! So I know how they feel too and some of the negativity is justified. Many bridges have burned over the years. Hibs need to show more empathy with those supporters rather than expect compliance.

The answers around keyboard warriors is just a piece of crap. I wonder how and when, given his disassociation with the internet, this became part of Franks vocabulary and what he means by it!

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 11:33 AM
Perhaps the 1300 non renewers were people who were locked into a season ticket last season having purchased before relegation? The clubs 'tough luck' attitude to pricing may hardened their stance to buying season tickets?
Being criticised by the board will bring them back though, I'm sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kato
03-09-2015, 11:38 AM
I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.


Thing it takes a long slow process for that disconnect to occur. The process of reconnecting can be even longer. The best way to speed it up will be different factors for different people and even then the reconnect might not even happen.

There isn't a simple switch or a "drawing a line underneath the past" that connects people back up again. It's an emotional and visceral process.

Forza Fred
03-09-2015, 11:45 AM
Perhaps the 1300 non renewers were people who were locked into a season ticket last season having purchased before relegation? The clubs 'tough luck' attitude to pricing may hardened their stance to buying season tickets?
Being criticised by the board will bring them back though, I'm sure.


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That is something that I see as being not helpful.......the Fawlty a Towers' almost suggestion I sometimes detect along the lines of....."this football club would function very well if it wasn't for the supporters..."

Managers/politicians/football club boards will ALWAYS have a degree of criticism, no matter what they do.

Their job as leaders is to identify what is valid, and respond to it, and frankly ignore the spurious stuff.

Not to complain publicly about it being offered though...

Forza Fred
03-09-2015, 11:48 AM
The answers around keyboard warriors is just a piece of crap. I wonder how and when, given his disassociation with the internet, this became part of Franks vocabulary and what he means by it!

Very good point.

JoeT_WasTheBest
03-09-2015, 11:49 AM
I love the fact Frank doesn't understand why people don't come back and that some are blaming Petrie which is so petty. This is the same guy who at the end of the Hamilton game was shouting to me, in earshot of my then 8 year old and 6 year old, that he wouldn't be going back until "that ******** Petrie" left....

I can understand and welcome the fact that people change their minds, but a bit of an acceptance that he had held that view himself wouldn't have gone amiss IMHO.

That apart, I wish him and Amit all the best.

green day
03-09-2015, 11:50 AM
Seems an incredibly high number of 1300 not to renew from last season to this. Personally thought last season was a huge improvement certainly in terms of the quality of football on show. Very surprised. I think Frank's ire is directed at the hugely unhelpful campaign orchestrated around about the start of the share issue which to me was damaging to the club as there were some serious allegations made which to me have never been proven to be anywhere near true.

Its still happening, if you look at some of the tweets sent by mates of a certain boxing promoter they are still playing the 'its a ponzi scheme for Farmers benefit' line - these guys have a lot of connections, both on and offline and mud sticks.

As many others have said, we are no worse or better than other fans - a successful team will bring back the fans - no question. I remember the days of Tynecastle being like a morgue when they were in the old first division - changed days, eh?

Success will encourage more fans = more money = more success = more fans.

As for ST numbers, there must also have been a lot (like me plus 2) who had not had one for years and got one this year.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-09-2015, 11:52 AM
You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players. Everything feels bolt-on not building from however, there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!



Maybe you just need to admit that you are an ex-Hibs fan then?

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 11:57 AM
Maybe you just need to admit that you are an ex-Hibs fan then?

Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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flash
03-09-2015, 12:07 PM
Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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You are right.
Maybe the club should listen more and interact better with supporters. Maybe they should back the manager in the transfer market. Maybe they should apologise for how the club was run up until recently.

Oh hang on they did all that.

Does there ever come a point where the onus switches from the club, who are clearly making a massive effort to reconnect, to those who have decided to withdraw their support?

CallumLaidlaw
03-09-2015, 12:08 PM
Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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He says himself he doesn't know what will bring him back so how are the club meant to know?

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-09-2015, 12:14 PM
Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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Yeah, but that's the rub. How do they do that in a way that they are not already?

What more can the club do at the moment? We are in a terrible situation, no doubt, but it is not the fault of the people in charge now, who are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The latent (ex?) Hibs support out there are not doing their bit, and are part of the problem at the moment. The reason it annoys me so much is that it worries me, because at the moment i really can see a scenario where Hibs become a permanently reduced club in terms of size and stature, a la Dundee. And you know who will be the first to moan about it if that does happen - the same fans who are a large part of the problem in the first place.

Dont get me wrong Ozy, god knows its been difficult following Hibs lately, and personally i have fallen out of love with the club a lot - i now dont attend games for no good reason when i never would have in the past. But equally, there is only one way out of the malaise, and that is for fans to do their bit, show their loyalty and courage and get behind the team.

Remember how we all looked at clubs such as Man City and lauded the loyalty of their fans through their dark years? Well, i dont htink anyone will be lauding the loyalty of the wider Hibs support, who in my opinion, have not stepped up to the plate when it was needed. We as a support have shown the collective lack of backbone that the worst Hibs teams have been known for.

Onion
03-09-2015, 12:27 PM
Is this bit right .....

"There's 1300 people who haven't renewed from last season, and we're actually up on season ticket numbers overall, so why are these people not coming back? "

Do Hibs genuinely not know why those 1300 customers have not renewed or am I just reading this wrong. The impression Frank gives is that they made a few phone calls and got a few reasons and "excuses".

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 12:51 PM
Yeah, but that's the rub. How do they do that in a way that they are not already?

What more can the club do at the moment? We are in a terrible situation, no doubt, but it is not the fault of the people in charge now, who are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The latent (ex?) Hibs support out there are not doing their bit, and are part of the problem at the moment. The reason it annoys me so much is that it worries me, because at the moment i really can see a scenario where Hibs become a permanently reduced club in terms of size and stature, a la Dundee. And you know who will be the first to moan about it if that does happen - the same fans who are a large part of the problem in the first place.

Dont get me wrong Ozy, god knows its been difficult following Hibs lately, and personally i have fallen out of love with the club a lot - i now dont attend games for no good reason when i never would have in the past. But equally, there is only one way out of the malaise, and that is for fans to do their bit, show their loyalty and courage and get behind the team.

Remember how we all looked at clubs such as Man City and lauded the loyalty of their fans through their dark years? Well, i dont htink anyone will be lauding the loyalty of the wider Hibs support, who in my opinion, have not stepped up to the plate when it was needed. We as a support have shown the collective lack of backbone that the worst Hibs teams have been known for.

Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.
Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back. A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.
Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.
On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.



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Peevemor
03-09-2015, 01:06 PM
Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.

Is LD not in charge? And even if she does have to answer to STF via RP, she seems to be getting a pretty free rein - so where's the problem?


Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back.

See above. If people can't recognise how much things have changed at ER/EM, it's because they don't want to IMO.


A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.

Which is why STF & RP have actioned a long term plan effectively gifting (from their point of view) control of the club to the fans.


Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.

Maybe in reality it would be detrimental? Maybe LD wouldn't have been given such a free hand if RP wasn't there to run stuff past STF?


On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.


Supporters buy strips if they like them, not simply to give the club money. Maybe the club have got something right for once - much as it might stick in your throat.

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 01:22 PM
Is LD not in charge? And even if she does have to answer to STF via RP, she seems to be getting a pretty free rein - so where's the problem?



See above. If people can't recognise how much things have changed at ER/EM, it's because they don't want to IMO.



Which is why STF & RP have actioned a long term plan effectively gifting (from their point of view) control of the club to the fans.



Maybe in reality it would be detrimental? Maybe LD wouldn't have been given such a free hand if RP wasn't there to run stuff past STF?



Supporters buy strips if they like them, not simply to give the club money. Maybe the club have got something right for once - much as it might stick in your throat.

Why would it stick in my throat?


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SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-09-2015, 01:30 PM
Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.
Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back. A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.
Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.
On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.


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Frankly, the idea that our Board make-up is keeping large numbers of fans away from is not true, and fans who use that are simply making an excuse. I couldnt even name the Hbs board, and i doubt many others could either. Agree about Petrie stepping down, and that annoys me too - if i had done as bad a job as him, i would have the grace to resign. But if people are basically giving up supporting Hibs because of Petrie, then thats just daft. Different it was an organised and sustained boyott (which can be very effective), but this isnt.

I remember for years when i was young hearing how many Hibs fans wouldnt go back to ER until Alex Miller was out. I honestly grew-up htinking that there were thousands of Hibbies staging some principled boycott. But they didnt materialise, and i learned that many people like to be associated or known as a Hibs fan, but in actual fact are just constantly looking for an excuse not to have to bother being an actual supporter.

I agree the core support have done their bit, but that is what worries me. Hibs success as far as crowds go isnt determined by the core, but by the latent support. They are very conspicuous by their absence, and it gets my goat. These people are occasional followers, and they are not doing their bit.

The latent, collective Hibs support are spineless. They often do not attend matches they think we will lose (Hearts semi final and recent playoff against Huns for example), and they get my goat because it is them that are doing the most damage by abandoning their club when their support is most needed. I just wish they would have the courage of their convictions and admit it, rather than hiding behind some pathetic excuse.

MrSmith
03-09-2015, 01:35 PM
Thanks for all the replies and comments.

I've been thinking about this all day. I'm not angry at the board nor the players and for sure, it is not the fans fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. I appreciate what Leanne, Alan Stubbs and his coaching team are doing however, I feel the heart has been ripped out of us! We are too nice! We need a ruthless fighting streak from top to bottom that installs/Instills a winning mentality! That means coming out and standing up to the constant Glasgow SFA/SPFL and media machine nonsense! We have it on the terraces just not in the club anymore. We are just too nice and drab.

Peevemor
03-09-2015, 01:45 PM
Why would it stick in my throat?


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One less reason to have a pop at the board.

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 01:45 PM
Frankly, the idea that our Board make-up is keeping large numbers of fans away from is not true, and fans who use that are simply making an excuse. I couldnt even name the Hbs board, and i doubt many others could either. Agree about Petrie stepping down, and that annoys me too - if i had done as bad a job as him, i would have the grace to resign. But if people are basically giving up supporting Hibs because of Petrie, then thats just daft. Different it was an organised and sustained boyott (which can be very effective), but this isnt.

I remember for years when i was young hearing how many Hibs fans wouldnt go back to ER until Alex Miller was out. I honestly grew-up htinking that there were thousands of Hibbies staging some principled boycott. But they didnt materialise, and i learned that many people like to be associated or known as a Hibs fan, but in actual fact are just constantly looking for an excuse not to have to bother being an actual supporter.

I agree the core support have done their bit, but that is what worries me. Hibs success as far as crowds go isnt determined by the core, but by the latent support. They are very conspicuous by their absence, and it gets my goat. These people are occasional followers, and they are not doing their bit.

The latent, collective Hibs support are spineless. They often do not attend matches they think we will lose (Hearts semi final and recent playoff against Huns for example), and they get my goat because it is them that are doing the most damage by abandoning their club when their support is most needed. I just wish they would have the courage of their convictions and admit it, rather than hiding behind some pathetic excuse.

Attendance at the Hearts semi final was down to the club only selling one ticket per season ticket holder. It stopped people from being able to get seats together. It was a crazy decision that caused a lot of embarrassment for the club.
They have learned from that mistake and since then trips to Hampden have been well attended.


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Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 01:49 PM
One less reason to have a pop at the board.

I only care about our on field performance. You won't find me on threads complaining about the hue of our new home strip etc.
on off field matters the board have performed adequately.
It's results that matter. Nothing else.


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blackpoolhibs
03-09-2015, 02:24 PM
FFS even a monkey knows why season ticket holders have not renewed, you only need to look at what league we are playing in and how we got there.

Here's a phrase you might know Frank?

The straw that broke the camel's back. :rolleyes:

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-09-2015, 02:52 PM
Attendance at the Hearts semi final was down to the club only selling one ticket per season ticket holder. It stopped people from being able to get seats together. It was a crazy decision that caused a lot of embarrassment for the club.
They have learned from that mistake and since then trips to Hampden have been well attended.


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Yeah, they defintely made it more difficult, but come on, that doesn't sound a bit like an excuse to you?

Ozyhibby
03-09-2015, 03:03 PM
Yeah, they defintely made it more difficult, but come on, that doesn't sound a bit like an excuse to you?

My dad normally goes to big games with me and he leaves it to me to get tickets, sort buses etc.
That day he said not to bother as it would have meant two desperate trips down to ER to get tickets and we would not be together anyway. He watched in the pub instead.
Your right, it is an excuse but why did the club make it difficult for him to attend when they had all those unsold tickets.
Still, it's not an issue now because they have learned from that mistake.


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NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2015, 03:20 PM
Thanks for all the replies and comments.

I've been thinking about this all day. I'm not angry at the board nor the players and for sure, it is not the fans fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. I appreciate what Leanne, Alan Stubbs and his coaching team are doing however, I feel the heart has been ripped out of us! We are too nice! We need a ruthless fighting streak from top to bottom that installs/Instills a winning mentality! That means coming out and standing up to the constant Glasgow SFA/SPFL and media machine nonsense! We have it on the terraces just not in the club anymore. We are just too nice and drab.

In the last 3 months we have berated the SPFL for the last day of the season fixtures fiasco. We have refused to give Sevco a full allocation of tickets, purely in retaliation for them doing the same to us and we have refused to buckle during the Scott Allan saga in the face of a Weegie media bombardment. Hardly the actions of a nice or drab club.

green day
03-09-2015, 03:28 PM
The impression Frank gives is that they made a few phone calls

They made more than a few phone calls. They also phoned a lot of people on the back of HSL membership as well (called two of my mates, one of whom signed up).

The board is massively proactive now, but we are in the 2nd tier and a lot of people still use the 'petrie' excuse.

I am fairly sure if we make a cup final the 'petrie must go before I support hibs again' brigade will be queuing up for tickets as usual (and I am not having a pop at them, I have been there myself).

Its just human nature.

MrSmith
03-09-2015, 03:30 PM
In the last 3 months we have berated the SPFL for the last day of the season fixtures fiasco. We have refused to give Sevco a full allocation of tickets, purely in retaliation for them doing the same to us and we have refused to buckle during the Scott Allan saga in the face of a Weegie media bombardment. Hardly the actions of a nice or drab club.


All done in a nice civilised manner!

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
03-09-2015, 03:30 PM
Thanks for all the replies and comments.

I've been thinking about this all day. I'm not angry at the board nor the players and for sure, it is not the fans fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. I appreciate what Leanne, Alan Stubbs and his coaching team are doing however, I feel the heart has been ripped out of us! We are too nice! We need a ruthless fighting streak from top to bottom that installs/Instills a winning mentality! That means coming out and standing up to the constant Glasgow SFA/SPFL and media machine nonsense! We have it on the terraces just not in the club anymore. We are just too nice and drab.

A bit ironic saying that, when that's exactly what you seem to not be doing.

WestStandMoaner
03-09-2015, 05:47 PM
FFS even a monkey knows why season ticket holders have not renewed, you only need to look at what league we are playing in and how we got there.

Here's a phrase you might know Frank?

The straw that broke the camel's back. :rolleyes:

spot on mate, this is not difficult to understand, if people are complaining now about the lack of support another season without promotion and Hibs will be in big trouble.

On a personal level I think the club have done well with signings and communication and hope we have now turned the corner

c,mon the hibs

bigwheel
03-09-2015, 06:18 PM
Great blog post Matty...really interesting read...and the fact that it a 3+ page thread shows that it has ignited some quality discussion. Keep them coming!

Lots of positives out of what Frank is saying - I do agree with his keyboard warriors point - the little socialist/James Connolly crew that are constantly negative about anything Hibs do on Social media - yet, I don't see anything they are doing that is positive for the club in any format. Their approach of abusing Farmer and co, and any fans who chooses to support the clubs progress is a strange way to build a supportive community around Hibs.

One worry I had as I read the bog is that Frank sounded more like a director than a fan. Surely the who point of having fans reps on the board is to ensure a strong fans voice in the boardroom and equally a strong voice back to the fans. If he doesn't like sitting in the directors box I suggest an easy solution to him and Amit...ditch the directors box and sit every game with the fans - that will help keep them looking through our eyes rather than a directors eyes..

Glory Glory!

Peevemor
03-09-2015, 06:26 PM
Great blog post Matty...

One worry I had as I read the bog is that Frank sounded more like a director than a fan...

Yet others on this thread have criticised him for talking like a fan when representing the board. Just goes to show how difficult it must be to wear both hats.

bigwheel
03-09-2015, 06:28 PM
Yet others on this thread have criticised him for talking like a fan when representing the board. Just goes to show how difficult it must be to wear both hats.


That is so true..very hard balance to get right. Still, sitting with the fans is easy though :)

Baldy Foghorn
03-09-2015, 06:38 PM
Yet others on this thread have criticised him for talking like a fan when representing the board. Just goes to show how difficult it must be to wear both hats.

Hard balancing act that's for sure.....

MrSmith
03-09-2015, 06:48 PM
A bit ironic saying that, when that's exactly what you seem to not be doing.

No irony in my post whatsoever!

Ive done my supporting, 45 years to be precise! Right now I just simply have had enough. It may change, it may not! I've been through worse than this during the 80's but one thing for sure, we could identify with the effort.

bigwheel
03-09-2015, 06:52 PM
No irony in my post whatsoever!

Ive done my supporting, 45 years to be precise! Right now I just simply have had enough. It may change, it may not! I've been through worse than this during the 80's but one thing for sure, we could identify with the effort.


that's your prerogative. You can choose what you do with your time...you admit you are not a supporter now though "I've done my supporting". Yet, you care enough to still be on the board?

For me, Don't like where we are, but I absolutely identify with the effort from the team, the management and the club to move us forward.

Scouse Hibee
03-09-2015, 09:34 PM
No irony in my post whatsoever!

Ive done my supporting, 45 years to be precise! Right now I just simply have had enough. It may change, it may not! I've been through worse than this during the 80's but one thing for sure, we could identify with the effort.

I've done my supoorting! You say that as if it's a badge that you can wear to justify not going anymore it's not.

superfurryhibby
03-09-2015, 10:06 PM
I've done my supoorting! You say that as if it's a badge that you can wear to justify not going anymore it's not.

To be fair, people can do whatever they like. We have discussed this on the board so many times and the bottom line is this...... who are you or me to tell anyone else what they should be doing or not doing in respect of a football team, or in fact any other aspect of their lives?

I've supported Hibs fora long time. It's ebbed and flowed In terms of attending games ( due to many factors, from teenage pot induced apathy, to playing on a Saturday myself, watching my eldest play on Saturdays, being skint, being crap, to whateverI might consider as a better thing to do). The thing is that it doesn't stop me wanting us to win, reading about our history or blethering to pals about footy.

Hibs are a friend with extras in my life, I like them well enough but I'm never going to marry them.

Back to Frank. Must be a tough job, but a labour of love. I think that it's a sign of huge progress that we have a fan presence on the board. There is a lot of importance attached to the role, way more than might initially meet the eyei. The club stand to lose a lot of credibility if it all went pear shaped and the fans reps were to resign.

I don't know him or Amit, but I'm glad we have a voice in the running of the club.

FranckSuzy
03-09-2015, 10:13 PM
Great blog post Matty...really interesting read...and the fact that it a 3+ page thread shows that it has ignited some quality discussion. Keep them coming!

Lots of positives out of what Frank is saying - I do agree with his keyboard warriors point - the little socialist/James Connolly crew that are constantly negative about anything Hibs do on Social media - yet, I don't see anything they are doing that is positive for the club in any format. Their approach of abusing Farmer and co, and any fans who chooses to support the clubs progress is a strange way to build a supportive community around Hibs.

One worry I had as I read the bog is that Frank sounded more like a director than a fan. Surely the who point of having fans reps on the board is to ensure a strong fans voice in the boardroom and equally a strong voice back to the fans. If he doesn't like sitting in the directors box I suggest an easy solution to him and Amit...ditch the directors box and sit every game with the fans - that will help keep them looking through our eyes rather than a directors eyes..

Glory Glory!

Thought most men took a paper in with them to read :tee hee:

MrSmith
04-09-2015, 04:25 AM
I've done my supoorting! You say that as if it's a badge that you can wear to justify not going anymore it's not.


Erm no, just no!

bigwheel
04-09-2015, 04:35 AM
Thought most men took a paper in with them to read :tee hee:

[emoji2]

Libby Hibby
04-09-2015, 05:05 AM
The majority of my m8s who have not renewed or don't PATG every week, do so, simply because they feel the product on the pitch and end result is still not there. They do however, recognise the efforts the club are putting but they feel simply let down with results and performances of the past.

Get it right on the park consistantly and these fans will return as will others. This may take time to convince some but the green shoots are starting to appear and hopefully this team assembled starts to flourish for a sustained period.

brog
04-09-2015, 10:16 AM
I've known Frank for 45 years or so, and have known him to be very critical of boards, managers etc in the past.

Hence why I find his criticism of criticism itself by some, surprising.

I would hope his comments weren't fully representational of the attitude of the board in general......ie....along the lines of .."just what do these supporters really expect, don't they know we are doing a wonderful job?"


Hi Freddie, like you I've been a friend of Frank's for longer than I care to remember. Frank's always been a wee bit of a contradiction, anti-establishment but somehow of the establishment, whether at the Supporters' Club or now HFC. That's not a criticism, merely an observation.
I bow to no one in my criticism of what sometimes appears to be constant negativity on Hibs Net but in this case I think Frank's got some of it wrong. I've followed Hibs for some 60 years yet the 3 summers of 2012-14 saw possibly 3 of the worst results in our history, each one witnessed by fans who had turned out in their thousands to support our club. Even I, seen it all with regard to Hibs, was left traumatised by the Hamilton game/performance. I find it hard to be overly critical of fans who, with these events still fresh in the memory, haven't yet returned to the fold, I'm more surprised so many stayed!
On the other hand! I do believe there are people who will now use any excuse to rationalise their non attendance at ER. I found some expectations of last season to be ridiculous. For the 1st time ever we were in a lower tier along with Yams & Sevco, who had 1 & 2 years respectively to prepare for the event. We were a demoralised, shambles of a club yet we came 1 offside goal away from probably making the play off final. We finished above Sevco for the 1st time in nearly 40 years & beat them by the largest margin ever in our history, 8-1 wartime not withstanding! Along the way we played some wonderful football, light years removed from recent seasons, yet people said our season would only have been a success if we got promoted. That IMO was unrealistic. I think AS & LD along with others deserve huge credit for turning our club around. They weren't here for the recent debacles & probably can't appreciate just how bad those were so I can understand their disappointment at the comparative lack of support. We don't know yet how this season will go but it appears from this transfer window that off the park improvements continue to be made. Hopefully our results & our crowds will improve throughout the season.
PS, after 1/1/73 both us & Yams next home games were against East Fife. Our crowd, was 17,068, Yams had 5,625! Yams crowd was 35% lower than their previous home game. Things can change pretty quickly.

Kato
04-09-2015, 10:24 AM
Hi Freddie, like you I've been a friend of Frank's for longer than I care to remember. Frank's always been a wee bit of a contradiction, anti-establishment but somehow of the establishment, whether at the Supporters' Club or now HFC. That's not a criticism, merely an observation.
I bow to no one in my criticism of what sometimes appears to be constant negativity on Hibs Net but in this case I think Frank's got some of it wrong. I've followed Hibs for some 60 years yet the 3 summers of 2012-14 saw possibly 3 of the worst results in our history, each one witnessed by fans who had turned out in their thousands to support our club. Even I, seen it all with regard to Hibs, was left traumatised by the Hamilton game/performance. I find it hard to be overly critical of fans who, with these events still fresh in the memory, haven't yet returned to the fold, I'm more surprised so many stayed!
On the other hand! I do believe there are people who will now use any excuse to rationalise their non attendance at ER. I found some expectations of last season to be ridiculous. For the 1st time ever we were in a lower tier along with Yams & Sevco, who had 1 & 2 years respectively to prepare for the event. We were a demoralised, shambles of a club yet we came 1 offside goal away from probably making the play off final. We finished above Sevco for the 1st time in nearly 40 years & beat them by the largest margin ever in our history, 8-1 wartime not withstanding! Along the way we played some wonderful football, light years removed from recent seasons, yet people said our season would only have been a success if we got promoted. That IMO was unrealistic. I think AS & LD along with others deserve huge credit for turning our club around. They weren't here for the recent debacles & probably can't appreciate just how bad those were so I can understand their disappointment at the comparative lack of support. We don't know yet how this season will go but it appears from this transfer window that off the park improvements continue to be made. Hopefully our results & our crowds will improve throughout the season.
PS, after 1/1/73 both us & Yams next home games were against East Fife. Our crowd, was 17,068, Yams had 5,625! Yams crowd was 35% lower than their previous home game. Things can change pretty quickly.

Great post, Brog.

CallumLaidlaw
04-09-2015, 10:39 AM
Hi Freddie, like you I've been a friend of Frank's for longer than I care to remember. Frank's always been a wee bit of a contradiction, anti-establishment but somehow of the establishment, whether at the Supporters' Club or now HFC. That's not a criticism, merely an observation.
I bow to no one in my criticism of what sometimes appears to be constant negativity on Hibs Net but in this case I think Frank's got some of it wrong. I've followed Hibs for some 60 years yet the 3 summers of 2012-14 saw possibly 3 of the worst results in our history, each one witnessed by fans who had turned out in their thousands to support our club. Even I, seen it all with regard to Hibs, was left traumatised by the Hamilton game/performance. I find it hard to be overly critical of fans who, with these events still fresh in the memory, haven't yet returned to the fold, I'm more surprised so many stayed!
On the other hand! I do believe there are people who will now use any excuse to rationalise their non attendance at ER. I found some expectations of last season to be ridiculous. For the 1st time ever we were in a lower tier along with Yams & Sevco, who had 1 & 2 years respectively to prepare for the event. We were a demoralised, shambles of a club yet we came 1 offside goal away from probably making the play off final. We finished above Sevco for the 1st time in nearly 40 years & beat them by the largest margin ever in our history, 8-1 wartime not withstanding! Along the way we played some wonderful football, light years removed from recent seasons, yet people said our season would only have been a success if we got promoted. That IMO was unrealistic. I think AS & LD along with others deserve huge credit for turning our club around. They weren't here for the recent debacles & probably can't appreciate just how bad those were so I can understand their disappointment at the comparative lack of support. We don't know yet how this season will go but it appears from this transfer window that off the park improvements continue to be made. Hopefully our results & our crowds will improve throughout the season.
PS, after 1/1/73 both us & Yams next home games were against East Fife. Our crowd, was 17,068, Yams had 5,625! Yams crowd was 35% lower than their previous home game. Things can change pretty quickly.

Great post. I agree that it would have been easy for me and many others to walk away after the Hamilton game. It was demoralising. More so to me than another couple of horrific results we'd endured in the previous 2 years. But (and maybe I'm easily influenced) the words that followed from Dempster & Stubbs made me feel that they deserved an opportunity to prove themselves. They hadn't been involved in the previous regime, and in fact Alan said if he'd realised just what a poor position we were actually in, he's not 100% that he would've still taken the job. What really turned me round was last christmas. We had the result against TheRangers on the 27th and a couple of days later, I visited the training centre with this very forum. The talks from Craig, Stubbs, Mathie & Flannigan really bhoyed me and the other fans that were there, and made you realise just how different things already were from 7 months previous - from training to our approach to games, to our youth development & player identification. It was impossible to come away from that and not be excited about where our club was heading. Sometimes things don't go right on the pitch - but that cant ALWAYS be attributed to the people in the dugout or boardroom. Its how they react to that that matters. For instance, losing the playoffs was gutting, but the way we went about our business in the transfer window, including the stance on Scott Allan, was refreshing to say the least. The videos produced by the club and billboards being put up around the area show real effort and thought from the club at getting fans back. Yes results play a huge part, and nothing is more important than promotion come May, but I do believe that the Dempster & Craig have genuinely done everything they possibly can (within the constraints of the club) to give us the best possible chance of going up this year.

Tha Cabbage Kid
04-09-2015, 10:42 AM
my opinion on getting more fans in the game would be the kids. if there was more chance of actual footballers taking time out to go to schools and talk to the kids about football.

1. it would encourage them to come along to watch/play football
2. realise the dream of becoming a star is possible.
and
3. give the kids face to face contact with a football star who (i think) would be the best person to promote hibs.

listened to a great interview with Chris hadfield (the astonaut). he felt the best way of helping kids realise a dream was by skyping school all over the coutry from the space station so the kids could have real interaction with someone doing something special and letting them see that it is possible. but i suppose this is a discussion for another day. but my main point is, if we can get the kids to come to games we can bring the adults too but kids are the future of this club.

147lothian
04-09-2015, 11:03 AM
I know that Frank was very critical of the board and Petrie in particular pre relegation, but I remember having a quick chat with Frank at the Petrie Out rally, and him say something along the lines of 'don't worry there will be changes' I never fully understood that at the time, but with the subsequent changes that have taken place, it seems like Frank had his finger on the pulse regarding what goes on behind the scenes at Easter Road.

I've know Frank for umpteen years through his previous association with the HSA, he is a supporter first and foremost who wants the best for the club, there is no way he would ever let himself be used as a mouth piece for the board, he would walk if he felt he was being used as such, this is a guy we can trust, he lives and breaths Hibernian Football Club, as he has praise for the changes that have taken place under Leanne Dempster, for me we have no better source of evidence that at last the club is moving in the right direction

Baldy Foghorn
04-09-2015, 11:51 AM
I know that Frank was very critical of the board and Petrie in particular pre relegation, but I remember having a quick chat with Frank at the Petrie Out rally, and him say something along the lines of 'don't worry there will be changes' I never fully understood that at the time, but with the subsequent changes that have taken place, it seems like Frank had his finger on the pulse regarding what goes on behind the scenes at Easter Road.

I've know Frank for umpteen years through his previous association with the HSA, he is a supporter first and foremost who wants the best for the club, there is no way he would ever let himself be used as a mouth piece for the board, he would walk if he felt he was being used as such, this is a guy we can trust, he lives and breaths Hibernian Football Club, as he has praise for the changes that have taken place under Leanne Dempster, for me we have no better source of evidence that at last the club is moving in the right direction

Agree with this, he won't be used, if he was, he would walk..... I'm sure with the amount of calls, messages and discussions he has with fans, that the Board will be well aware of the mood of fan's at every opportunity.....

ahibby
04-09-2015, 12:14 PM
It's interesting that 1300 haven't renewed their ST......... I am one of those. BF doesn't understand us but it's quite simple for some of us. Hibs had to have a good preseason and show us at the beginning that they learned from last season and the start that Hearts made. Last season we actually played better in the Petrofac at Ibrox than we did this season at ER. Losing 6-2 at home at the start of the season followed by a 2-1 defeat to Dumbarton was an awful start and BF admits to us having a bad start. He doesn't seem to tie that in with ST sales though. I'll probably end up paying more to watch Hibs this season than I did with a ST last season but Hibs must learn. People will buy ST when they have the money if they show us that they start the season ready. We were far of being ready at the start of this season. I'll probably save money on walk up by buying a half season ticket as long as we get what we rightly expect from a Hibs team in this league.

CallumLaidlaw
04-09-2015, 02:39 PM
It's interesting that 1300 haven't renewed their ST......... I am one of those. BF doesn't understand us but it's quite simple for some of us. Hibs had to have a good preseason and show us at the beginning that they learned from last season and the start that Hearts made. Last season we actually played better in the Petrofac at Ibrox than we did this season at ER. Losing 6-2 at home at the start of the season followed by a 2-1 defeat to Dumbarton was an awful start and BF admits to us having a bad start. He doesn't seem to tie that in with ST sales though. I'll probably end up paying more to watch Hibs this season than I did with a ST last season but Hibs must learn. People will buy ST when they have the money if they show us that they start the season ready. We were far of being ready at the start of this season. I'll probably save money on walk up by buying a half season ticket as long as we get what we rightly expect from a Hibs team in this league.

Its a shame that the club being unlucky with several unexpected injuries has cost them hundreds of season tickets then....

blackpoolhibs
04-09-2015, 04:38 PM
Its a shame that the club being unlucky with several unexpected injuries has cost them hundreds of season tickets then....


Come on Callum, if its not injuries its something else? There are reasons why folk have not renewed and it's mainly results and results over a long period of time that's left us playing 2nd tier football.

How anyone on the board can fail to understand this is astounding, especially the fans representative? And if that is what they all think on the board at the club, then they are not as clued up on things as i keep hearing they are?

Onion
04-09-2015, 05:05 PM
Come on Callum, if its not injuries its something else? There are reasons why folk have not renewed and it's mainly results and results over a long period of time that's left us playing 2nd tier football.

How anyone on the board can fail to understand this is astounding, especially the fans representative? And if that is what they all think on the board at the club, then they are not as clued up on things as i keep hearing they are?

:top marks There's simply no excuse for the club to be ignorant. It takes zero money and about a couple of hours of effort to put together an online questionnaire to get the answers they need. Email all 1300 and you can bet most would respond, as they'll still care about the club. They'll also be pretty open and honest in their reasons. Hibs might not like the answers but at least they'll know what they have to do to start getting these folk back or if it's a lost cause. At the very least, Hibs might give the impression they care about lost fans :confused:

marinello59
04-09-2015, 05:27 PM
:top marks There's simply no excuse for the club to be ignorant. It takes zero money and about a couple of hours of effort to put together an online questionnaire to get the answers they need. Email all 1300 and you can bet most would respond, as they'll still care about the club. They'll also be pretty open and honest in their reasons. Hibs might not like the answers but at least they'll know what they have to do to start getting these folk back or if it's a lost cause. At the very least, Hibs might give the impression they care about lost fans :confused:

LD has made it clear since her first day in the job that she understood exactly why there were fans disenchanted with the club. Since then there had been several initiatives/meeting etc held to find a way forward. Maybe you missed all that happening but it did. And fans who have not renewed have been contacted if I am reading FD's comments correctly. He lists the areas that he thinks we have improved in as a club and to be fair to him I haven't seen anything significant outside of that list given as a reason for still not attending ER. Hence his comment about failing to understand just why some wont go back. Seems like fair comment to me if you agree with his views on where we have improved. If you don't agree we have improved in those areas then you still won't be back but its totally unfair to try and paint him as being ignorant of people's concerns or accusing the board of simply not caring.

CallumLaidlaw
04-09-2015, 08:09 PM
Come on Callum, if its not injuries its something else? There are reasons why folk have not renewed and it's mainly results and results over a long period of time that's left us playing 2nd tier football.

How anyone on the board can fail to understand this is astounding, especially the fans representative? And if that is what they all think on the board at the club, then they are not as clued up on things as i keep hearing they are?

Most people praised Hibs for the work they done in early pre season to get business done. We mostly felt that Hibs HAD learnt from the previous year. Injuries definitely held us back, as shown by the squad that had to be selected for the petrofac game. I feel to say Hibs didn't prepare properly for this season is unfair. Sometimes things happen that just can't be helped.
On the other hand tho, things that happened previous to that COULD have been helped, and if people still want to hold the current staff responsible for that, then there's not much that's going to be able to change their opinion.

blackpoolhibs
04-09-2015, 08:20 PM
Most people praised Hibs for the work they done in early pre season to get business done. We mostly felt that Hibs HAD learnt from the previous year. Injuries definitely held us back, as shown by the squad that had to be selected for the petrofac game. I feel to say Hibs didn't prepare properly for this season is unfair. Sometimes things happen that just can't be helped.
On the other hand tho, things that happened previous to that COULD have been helped, and if people still want to hold the current staff responsible for that, then there's not much that's going to be able to change their opinion.

I don't hold the new folk at the club responsible for where we are playing our football these days, i do blame Petrie for it though. And because of his mismanagement, i now no longer have a season ticket and pick and choose when i attend.

It makes no difference who we have in charge now, that man and his management appointments formed the way i now feel about attending matches.

There are many more like me who are fed up with the standard of football and the standard of players we've had over the last few years, its resulted in 1300 season ticket holders not renewing and since Mowbrays years many more too. Its not rocket science, in fact as i said before how anyone wouldn't know this is astounding?

Tyler Durden
04-09-2015, 08:25 PM
I don't hold the new folk at the club responsible for where we are playing our football these days, i do blame Petrie for it though. And because of his mismanagement, i now no longer have a season ticket and pick and choose when i attend.

It makes no difference who we have in charge now, that man and his management appointments formed the way i now feel about attending matches.

There are many more like me who are fed up with the standard of football and the standard of players we've had over the last few years, its resulted in 1300 season ticket holders not renewing and since Mowbrays years many more too. Its not rocket science, in fact as i said before how anyone wouldn't know this is astounding?

I read Dougans view to be shock that people had STs after relegation, saw the apparent (albeit fruitless) progress under Stubbs and only THEN they failed to renew. Which is a fair point IMO.

Then again it's understandable if some people viewed the play off failure to be another kick in the teeth and decided to pick and choose their games in another Championship season

Jack
05-09-2015, 07:30 AM
What I haven’t seen on this thread are the people who have said since the East was built there's no need to buy a ST as there will always be seats available.

That's been the case for 5 or 6 years now and each year more season ticket holders will join them.

Tag that along with the cost of a season ticket being so close to walking up that missing a couple of games doesn't make buying it such good value.

Relegation has just made all of that 10 times worse.

Yet during that time Hibs have maintained the same pricing model.

Until Hibs are where LD and AS say they want us to be; at the top end of Scottish football ... regularly at Hampden and competing in Europe ... they are going to have to become much more creative with that pricing structure.

Andy74
05-09-2015, 08:50 AM
I read Dougans view to be shock that people had STs after relegation, saw the apparent (albeit fruitless) progress under Stubbs and only THEN they failed to renew. Which is a fair point IMO.

Then again it's understandable if some people viewed the play off failure to be another kick in the teeth and decided to pick and choose their games in another Championship season

Quite a few had purchased prior to relegation though.

FitbaFolkKen
05-09-2015, 09:21 AM
What I haven’t seen on this thread are the people who have said since the East was built there's no need to buy a ST as there will always be seats available.

That's been the case for 5 or 6 years now and each year more season ticket holders will join them.

Tag that along with the cost of a season ticket being so close to walking up that missing a couple of games doesn't make buying it such good value.

Relegation has just made all of that 10 times worse.

Yet during that time Hibs have maintained the same pricing model.

Until Hibs are where LD and AS say they want us to be; at the top end of Scottish football ... regularly at Hampden and competing in Europe ... they are going to have to become much more creative with that pricing structure.

I can only make about 70-80% of games. An option that I think would work well is if you could buy a bulk batch of tickets in advance and redeem them against games. I would buy a ten ticket package for £200 in advance. Then just phone up and book in, or I'm sure it could be arranged online at some agreed point in advance giving Hibs the opportunity to sell the seat if I didn't want to use it.

I've sponsored a player this year but not bought a season ticket and will probably walk up to ten or so games when business allows.

Pricing etc... is just an example of an alternative system that I think might work.

One Day
06-09-2015, 08:01 AM
I can only make about 70-80% of games. An option that I think would work well is if you could buy a bulk batch of tickets in advance and redeem them against games. I would buy a ten ticket package for £200 in advance. Then just phone up and book in, or I'm sure it could be arranged online at some agreed point in advance giving Hibs the opportunity to sell the seat if I didn't want to use it.

I've sponsored a player this year but not bought a season ticket and will probably walk up to ten or so games when business allows.

Pricing etc... is just an example of an alternative system that I think might work.

That sounds something that could be looked into further

bigwheel
06-09-2015, 08:19 AM
I can only make about 70-80% of games. An option that I think would work well is if you could buy a bulk batch of tickets in advance and redeem them against games. I would buy a ten ticket package for £200 in advance. Then just phone up and book in, or I'm sure it could be arranged online at some agreed point in advance giving Hibs the opportunity to sell the seat if I didn't want to use it.

I've sponsored a player this year but not bought a season ticket and will probably walk up to ten or so games when business allows.

Pricing etc... is just an example of an alternative system that I think might work.


Your take on this shows an interesting different point to me. You are not one of the group who is fed up of where we are and is choosing not to be an ST. You are actively supporting the club (such as sponsoring a player), yet the ST structure doesn't work for you - this sort of 10 book ticket seems a great idea...

MrSmith
06-09-2015, 08:59 AM
Your take on this shows an interesting different point to me. You are not one of the group who is fed up of where we are and is choosing not to be an ST. You are actively supporting the club (such as sponsoring a player), yet the ST structure doesn't work for you - this sort of 10 book ticket seems a great idea...


Fans support the club in different way, just because you don't renew doesn't mean any fan is lesser. As I said earlier, my three kids support hibs which means: three home strips plus an additional away kit for my eldest as well as his season ticket so, nearly £500! Maybe I have temporarily fallen out of love with hibs but such as it is and to be clear ... Disappointment, gross disappointment! The final straw was relegation! Subsequent promotion failure has not helped.

brassmonkeybar
06-09-2015, 09:06 AM
What I haven’t seen on this thread are the people who have said since the East was built there's no need to buy a ST as there will always be seats available.

That's been the case for 5 or 6 years now and each year more season ticket holders will join them.

Tag that along with the cost of a season ticket being so close to walking up that missing a couple of games doesn't make buying it such good value.

Relegation has just made all of that 10 times worse.

Yet during that time Hibs have maintained the same pricing model.

Until Hibs are where LD and AS say they want us to be; at the top end of Scottish football ... regularly at Hampden and competing in Europe ... they are going to have to become much more creative with that pricing structure.

Now theres a sensible post right there
Why pay all that money for a st up front when u r ALWAYS guaranteed a seat for any home game incl cup games by just walking up and paying?

bigwheel
06-09-2015, 09:08 AM
Fans support the club in different way, just because you don't renew doesn't mean any fan is lesser. As I said earlier, my three kids support hibs which means: three home strips plus an additional away kit for my eldest as well as his season ticket so, nearly £500! Maybe I have temporarily fallen out of love with hibs but such as it is and to be clear ... Disappointment, gross disappointment! The final straw was relegation! Subsequent promotion failure has not helped.

The fact that you do that and are still on here tells me that you will fall back in love with Hibs again sometime [emoji106]

Beefster
06-09-2015, 09:32 AM
Sounds like a wee bit of Stockholm Syndrome going on. Either than or some directors are losing touch with sections of the folk they're supposed to be representing (I'm assuming that it's all Hibs supporters, irrespective of whether they've deserted us or not). Hopefully, Amit has a better idea of why folk aren't buying/renewing season tickets. I'd say it's a bit more baffling why 7k of us continue to.

Aside from that, unless they are physically banned from Tynecastle, it seems mildly ridiculous that a Hibs director refuses to go to Hearts away.

liamh2202
06-09-2015, 09:36 AM
I think the biggest issue with sts is it just isn't value for money enough unfortunately.

CallumLaidlaw
06-09-2015, 11:15 AM
I think the biggest issue with sts is it just isn't value for money enough unfortunately.

I have never thought a ST is value for money. Neither are shares. But we buy them because of our love for the club

147lothian
06-09-2015, 02:53 PM
I can only make about 70-80% of games. An option that I think would work well is if you could buy a bulk batch of tickets in advance and redeem them against games. I would buy a ten ticket package for £200 in advance. Then just phone up and book in, or I'm sure it could be arranged online at some agreed point in advance giving Hibs the opportunity to sell the seat if I didn't want to use it.

I've sponsored a player this year but not bought a season ticket and will probably walk up to ten or so games when business allows.

Pricing etc... is just an example of an alternative system that I think might work.

I like this idea, if you could get a card that is valid for 10 swipes, then there would be no need to even phone, the card would just register each time you pass through the turn style at the end of the day its about attracting people to Easter Road, which means being flexible im sure your not the only one who thinks a season ticket isn't so appealing when you cant make every game

Tyler Durden
06-09-2015, 03:24 PM
Quite a few had purchased prior to relegation though.

True. I had forgotten that and sounds like Dougan has too

Pretty Boy
06-09-2015, 03:27 PM
I have never thought a ST is value for money. Neither are shares. But we buy them because of our love for the club

I think that's true for some of us but we need to accept there are different types of fans who look at different issues when purchasing a ST/tickets.

Jack makes a valid point re availability these days. Since the new East was built we have sold out ER once I think, although I stand ready to be corrected, and anyone who wishes to buy a ticket for any game will get one. The loyalty scheme has in a way, and this isn't a criticism of it, exacerbated that because should we reach a semi or final with a 20000 allocation someone knows they need only attend 4 or 5 games at the very most to be pretty much guaranteed a ticket.

I can't help think the single tier ST model that has been around for years now is maybe a bit outdated and it may be time to look at multiple game packages, family specials etc.

Finally whilst this isn't a criticism of FD as such and much of what he says is true; he is a guy who you could strand on a desert island and he'd probably still make it to ER by 3pm on Saturday rather than miss the game. Whilst that is commendable he maybe isn't best placed to understand the mentality and varied reasons why others can't attend ER. I realise I'm lucky in that I have no kids and my missus works weekend so following Hibs home and away is easy for me. Equally I know plenty guys of the same age as me who are at a stage in life when football becomes that wee bit less important due to marriage, having children, career changes etc etc.

CallumLaidlaw
06-09-2015, 04:55 PM
I think that's true for some of us but we need to accept there are different types of fans who look at different issues when purchasing a ST/tickets.

Jack makes a valid point re availability these days. Since the new East was built we have sold out ER once I think, although I stand ready to be corrected, and anyone who wishes to buy a ticket for any game will get one. The loyalty scheme has in a way, and this isn't a criticism of it, exacerbated that because should we reach a semi or final with a 20000 allocation someone knows they need only attend 4 or 5 games at the very most to be pretty much guaranteed a ticket.

I can't help think the single tier ST model that has been around for years now is maybe a bit outdated and it may be time to look at multiple game packages, family specials etc.

Finally whilst this isn't a criticism of FD as such and much of what he says is true; he is a guy who you could strand on a desert island and he'd probably still make it to ER by 3pm on Saturday rather than miss the game. Whilst that is commendable he maybe isn't best placed to understand the mentality and varied reasons why others can't attend ER. I realise I'm lucky in that I have no kids and my missus works weekend so following Hibs home and away is easy for me. Equally I know plenty guys of the same age as me who are at a stage in life when football becomes that wee bit less important due to marriage, having children, career changes etc etc.

Nah, I do totally get that we all don't fall into the same type of fan and some WILL look for value for money.

I've said for a while now that the club really should look at a season book that guarantees tickets for say 10 matches. I'm sure plenty would buy, but the club may be worried that current season ticket holders would downgrade to this type of ticket.

A better type of family season ticket would definitely be well looked upon tho.

HFC 0-7
06-09-2015, 05:45 PM
I have never thought a ST is value for money. Neither are shares. But we buy them because of our love for the club

think you are missing the point here though. There are different types of fans out there and the club needs them all. Keep the season ticket prices high and not particularly cheaper than walk ups and you will still get the majority of the 'hardcore' supporter going. Then there are the supporters that maybe weigh things up a bit more and look at the cost vs the enjoyment they get out of it and decide that their money can be spent elsewhere. Hibs need to get these supporters coming back and there are 2 ways to do it, reduce the ST prices significantly vs walk ups, or, improve the product. The product is improving, but IMO, too slowly for these supporters to come back. We were miles off the pace of Hearts last year and its looking like Rangers are quite a bit ahead this year.

People will say that you should support through thick and thin but thats just not the way that all fans are thinking. Like it or not, we need all the fans, its up to the club to improve the product or produce a package that is too hard to turn down. This isnt just a Hibs thing either, any club that put their fans through what we have would lose a lot of regulars.

FitbaFolkKen
06-09-2015, 08:15 PM
Your take on this shows an interesting different point to me. You are not one of the group who is fed up of where we are and is choosing not to be an ST. You are actively supporting the club (such as sponsoring a player), yet the ST structure doesn't work for you - this sort of 10 book ticket seems a great idea...

Yeah I've always felt the ticketing system is a bit archaic and doesn't provide much flexibility. In any other market this would probably be one the first things that get addressed.

Carheenlea
06-09-2015, 08:18 PM
I look on a season ticket much in the same way as a golf club membership or gym membership. The more you use it the better value it becomes. The single biggest commitment a supporter can contribute is by purchasing a ST. I`m not able to attend every single game, but I`m happy to commit to the club in this way. I wouldn`t be interested in a reduced game ST but I suspect the club would feel too many full paying season holders would take up that option. There has been a big push to get more season tickets sold by the club, and I don`t really see that target changed any time soon.

PatHead
06-09-2015, 10:15 PM
Over the last few years whilst being involved with Working Together we have discussed the issue of methods of increasing the fan base on a regular basis and it is still ongoing. The "10 game ticket" has been discussed however there is the chance that the number of increased sales would not match the fall in season ticket holders.

I did the phone sessions for a couple of nights and very few folk who weren't renewing quoted cost as the main reason for not renewing. As other posters have said the main reason was a change in circumstances often to do with working patterns or health issues. I only had one not coming back until Rod Petrie is gone being there was their reason and that was matched by one renewer who had died and the family hadn't informed us.

The bottom line is that the largest method of funding our player budget is through the number of season tickets sold. The introduction of the interest free option a couple of years ago was brought in to try and make it easier for fans to purchase tickets. That made it more like a gym or golf membership with monthly payments which hopefully made it easier.

Children's season tickets offer brilliant value so I don't know how their season tickets could be more competitive.

I totally get Frank's frustration but the bottom line is that until we get a winning team on the pitch and back to the top division gates will not increase dramatically. We have reduced individual match prices and the gates don't automatically double if the price is halved. We even gave away tickets to season ticket holders for the Cowdenbeath game and never had a great uptake.

Open to suggestions though if people have before the next meeting.........

147lothian
07-09-2015, 02:57 PM
think you are missing the point here though. There are different types of fans out there and the club needs them all. Keep the season ticket prices high and not particularly cheaper than walk ups and you will still get the majority of the 'hardcore' supporter going. Then there are the supporters that maybe weigh things up a bit more and look at the cost vs the enjoyment they get out of it and decide that their money can be spent elsewhere. Hibs need to get these supporters coming back and there are 2 ways to do it, reduce the ST prices significantly vs walk ups, or, improve the product. The product is improving, but IMO, too slowly for these supporters to come back. We were miles off the pace of Hearts last year and its looking like Rangers are quite a bit ahead this year.

People will say that you should support through thick and thin but thats just not the way that all fans are thinking. Like it or not, we need all the fans, its up to the club to improve the product or produce a package that is too hard to turn down. This isnt just a Hibs thing either, any club that put their fans through what we have would lose a lot of regulars.

Good point mate, I would like to see idea's that reach out to different types of fan's

Forza Fred
07-09-2015, 04:28 PM
think you are missing the point here though. There are different types of fans out there and the club needs them all. Keep the season ticket prices high and not particularly cheaper than walk ups and you will still get the majority of the 'hardcore' supporter going. Then there are the supporters that maybe weigh things up a bit more and look at the cost vs the enjoyment they get out of it and decide that their money can be spent elsewhere. Hibs need to get these supporters coming back and there are 2 ways to do it, reduce the ST prices significantly vs walk ups, or, improve the product. The product is improving, but IMO, too slowly for these supporters to come back. We were miles off the pace of Hearts last year and its looking like Rangers are quite a bit ahead this year.

People will say that you should support through thick and thin but thats just not the way that all fans are thinking. Like it or not, we need all the fans, its up to the club to improve the product or produce a package that is too hard to turn down. This isnt just a Hibs thing either, any club that put their fans through what we have would lose a lot of regulars.


Spot on.

While I, at the age of 64 at the other end of the globe still see Hibs as something that I daily think about, not everybody is the same.

They may have......a life where Hibs although important to them, is just not THAT important as they have other interests.

The match day experience needs to be interesting, and most importantly following the Hibs needs to make people feel, good.......no longer will everybody pay their season ticket money out of a sense of duty.....and then suffer extreme disappointments and shrug them off.

Many will, and do.....but times are changing, and we need to win these people back......not complain that they won't come back etc

I think that is where I disagree with Frank's view......but having said that Given Frank's love for the Hibs I can understand his viewpoint.....I just don't think it applies to as many fans these days.

ahibby
07-09-2015, 04:49 PM
Its a shame that the club being unlucky with several unexpected injuries has cost them hundreds of season tickets then....

Callum I don't think your argument really holds. Foster pulled a hamstring not a long term injury and he played against Rangers in the 6-2 embarrassment. We've brought in McGeouch, Henderson, McGregor, Feruz, Insall, and the other striker. None of them had a pre season with us. AS Stubbs quoted recently as saying 'Now we are ready' Thereby implying that we weren't when ST were on sale. What's wrong wit being ready when STs were on sale? That's all I'm asking, if the club wants me to buy then they need to show me what I'm buying. They can't say oh you can just trust us to put together a league winning side pay up. No it doesn't work like that anymore for me. I've had too many disappointments to date. In future I want to see what we have got before I buy a ST. By the way only a few games at home in to the season and I've spent over one hundred quid on family tickets so far. If this continues then it's going to cost me a hell of a lot more than the price of my ST renewal would have. So Hibs are going to make more money from me this season than they did last when I had an ST, so does it really matter? Also I don't understand why it's important for them to go to a foreign training camp when only have the squad are signed, doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't seem to pay any dividends anyway because we were poor at the start of the season.

bigwheel
07-09-2015, 06:30 PM
Callum I don't think your argument really holds. Foster pulled a hamstring not a long term injury and he played against Rangers in the 6-2 embarrassment. We've brought in McGeouch, Henderson, McGregor, Feruz, Insall, and the other striker. None of them had a pre season with us. AS Stubbs quoted recently as saying 'Now we are ready' Thereby implying that we weren't when ST were on sale. What's wrong wit being ready when STs were on sale? That's all I'm asking, if the club wants me to buy then they need to show me what I'm buying. They can't say oh you can just trust us to put together a league winning side pay up. No it doesn't work like that anymore for me. I've had too many disappointments to date. In future I want to see what we have got before I buy a ST. By the way only a few games at home in to the season and I've spent over one hundred quid on family tickets so far. If this continues then it's going to cost me a hell of a lot more than the price of my ST renewal would have. So Hibs are going to make more money from me this season than they did last when I had an ST, so does it really matter? Also I don't understand why it's important for them to go to a foreign training camp when only have the squad are signed, doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't seem to pay any dividends anyway because we were poor at the start of the season.

STs go on sale in March.....

jacomo
08-09-2015, 11:19 AM
Callum I don't think your argument really holds. Foster pulled a hamstring not a long term injury and he played against Rangers in the 6-2 embarrassment. We've brought in McGeouch, Henderson, McGregor, Feruz, Insall, and the other striker. None of them had a pre season with us. AS Stubbs quoted recently as saying 'Now we are ready' Thereby implying that we weren't when ST were on sale. What's wrong wit being ready when STs were on sale? That's all I'm asking, if the club wants me to buy then they need to show me what I'm buying. They can't say oh you can just trust us to put together a league winning side pay up. No it doesn't work like that anymore for me. I've had too many disappointments to date. In future I want to see what we have got before I buy a ST. By the way only a few games at home in to the season and I've spent over one hundred quid on family tickets so far. If this continues then it's going to cost me a hell of a lot more than the price of my ST renewal would have. So Hibs are going to make more money from me this season than they did last when I had an ST, so does it really matter? Also I don't understand why it's important for them to go to a foreign training camp when only have the squad are signed, doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't seem to pay any dividends anyway because we were poor at the start of the season.

Hibs are a long way from the top of the football food chain.

This has a major impact on player recruitment, as we have to wait for other clubs to make moves before we can complete our own business. I think this is a fact of life and not the fault of the club.

Take this summer as an example - one of our key players tapped up, Hibs could choose how to respond to the derisory bids that followed but couldn't confirm other business until SA's future was sorted out.

dangermouse
08-09-2015, 12:42 PM
The majority of my m8s who have not renewed or don't PATG every week, do so, simply because they feel the product on the pitch and end result is still not there. They do however, recognise the efforts the club are putting but they feel simply let down with results and performances of the past.

Get it right on the park consistantly and these fans will return as will others. This may take time to convince some but the green shoots are starting to appear and hopefully this team assembled starts to flourish for a sustained period.

The old catch 22 scenario, without their money we are unlikely to improve so they'll never be back.

AL-Qaholik
08-09-2015, 02:17 PM
The old catch 22 scenario, without their money we are unlikely to improve so they'll never be back.

That's just not true though, is it? Our budget still dwarves all but one of the clubs in our division & many of those in the division above us! It's all about how the money is spent and how the club is managed - on and off the field. I reckon that's what a lot of people who are holding out are looking for.

dangermouse
08-09-2015, 02:28 PM
That's just not true though, is it? Our budget still dwarves all but one of the clubs in our division & many of those in the division above us! It's all about how the money is spent and how the club is managed - on and off the field. I reckon that's what a lot of people who are holding out are looking for.

Using that argument, The Rangers should have romped back into the Premiership at the first time of asking but didn't due to the numpties that were training and picking the team. It was only when they had someone that knew what they were doing that we got gazumped.

We have a clever young manager who took a team of underachievers and turned them into a football team. If you were at the friendly against Berwick at the start of last season you'll have seen Michael Nelson the footballer not a rabbit caught in the headlights.

If those that choose to stay away until results start to improve actually put their money where their mouth is, maybe we could have afforded a better contract for Scott Allan and he would still be here? Maybe other players may have joined who knows but those withholding their money because they are waiting on improvement on the park are actually contributing to the lack of progression. To coin a phrase, you can only pee with the appendage you have.

AL-Qaholik
08-09-2015, 02:47 PM
That's basically the same argument I was making! Rangers didn't romp the league precisely because of mismanagement. It was this same sort of mismanagement that sees us in the predicament we're in after the last 8 years.
Rangers now seem to be getting the management side right (on the field at least) and are reaping the benefits. That is exactly what we need to be doing to entice people back. Being 9 points and many goals adrift (albeit with a game in hand) this early in the season is just not going to cut it with most stay-away fans...

liamh2202
08-09-2015, 03:41 PM
I have never thought a ST is value for money. Neither are shares. But we buy them because of our love for the club

Unfortunately blind love for the club comes behind family finances now for me.I had bought a st this year for me and the boy planning on traveling through from helensburgh, which was fine. Unfortunately I then got posted in Portsmouth so kept his but could not justify keeping mine.yes that probably rules me out of the uber fan club but I think a lot of people have to prioritize and unfortunately the football is not the be all and end all for everyone

HFC 0-7
08-09-2015, 03:47 PM
That's just not true though, is it? Our budget still dwarves all but one of the clubs in our division & many of those in the division above us! It's all about how the money is spent and how the club is managed - on and off the field. I reckon that's what a lot of people who are holding out are looking for.

I think we are in a difficult situation at the moment. We built the infrastructure for the future but it comes at a cost. We have more income than many teams in this division and above but our overheads must be much larger. The training centre must cost a bit in utilities etc then all the people working there, other teams won't have that. Our stadium up keep must be quite a lot, all the corporate space but is it being used well, behind the goals is looking shabby, the bar looks poorly stocked, they hardly have straws ffs! I do wonder if we could do more to have these spaces used more frequently.

liamh2202
08-09-2015, 04:22 PM
I think we are in a difficult situation at the moment. We built the infrastructure for the future but it comes at a cost. We have more income than many teams in this division and above but our overheads must be much larger. The training centre must cost a bit in utilities etc then all the people working there, other teams won't have that. Our stadium up keep must be quite a lot, all the corporate space but is it being used well, behind the goals is looking shabby, the bar looks poorly stocked, they hardly have straws ffs! I do wonder if we could do more to have these spaces used more frequently.

Hamilton have their supporters club in the main stand so that operates all the time. Could that be something we could maybe do with behind the goals. I feel commercially hibs may have lost touch a bit and rather than sell it as an exclusive venue why not open it up to the support and locals to use?

jacomo
09-09-2015, 03:18 PM
I think we are in a difficult situation at the moment. We built the infrastructure for the future but it comes at a cost. We have more income than many teams in this division and above but our overheads must be much larger. The training centre must cost a bit in utilities etc then all the people working there, other teams won't have that. Our stadium up keep must be quite a lot, all the corporate space but is it being used well, behind the goals is looking shabby, the bar looks poorly stocked, they hardly have straws ffs! I do wonder if we could do more to have these spaces used more frequently.

Are there licensing restrictions that prevent BTG being opened to the public?

Kato
09-09-2015, 03:49 PM
The old catch 22 scenario, without their money we are unlikely to improve so they'll never be back.

We've built great teams on a shoe-string before.

HFC 0-7
09-09-2015, 05:16 PM
Are there licensing restrictions that prevent BTG being opened to the public?


Not sure urge about that tbh. I was more thinking about people using it for functions etc, IMO, it can't be used much for functions as it's just not stocked well etc.