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monarch
30-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Just heard on sportsound that it was the fourth official that instigated the controversial sending off of Derek Lyall of QOS against Rangers. In the Championship fourth officials are only required for televised matches so given that The Rangers will be the "most televised" team in the championship does this constitute the lack of a level playing field ?

Fife-Hibee
30-08-2015, 01:40 PM
Certainly seems like it :(

ekhibee
30-08-2015, 01:45 PM
well to be fair Warburton has just said that he was only 5 yards away from it and no way was it a sending off at all, but the fact remains, Kiernan wasn't even booked. The game was over after that.

Sir David Gray
30-08-2015, 01:47 PM
Just heard on sportsound that it was the fourth official that instigated the controversial sending off of Derek Lyall of QOS against Rangers. In the Championship fourth officials are only required for televised matches so given that The Rangers will be the "most televised" team in the championship does this constitute the lack of a level playing field ?

That's actually a good point.

In Championship games where there is a fourth official, they probably shouldn't be allowed to get involved in any decision making since most of the other matches in the league won't have a fourth official.

Hibernia&Alba
30-08-2015, 01:48 PM
well to be fair Warburton has just said that he was only 5 yards away from it and no way was it a sending off at all, but the fact remains, Kiernan wasn't even booked. The game was over after that.

He must be taken aback by how many things seem to go Rangers' way up here. He isn't used to it.

Sir David Gray
30-08-2015, 01:48 PM
well to be fair Warburton has just said that he was only 5 yards away from it and no way was it a sending off at all, but the fact remains, Kiernan wasn't even booked. The game was over after that.

That's easy to say when your team's just gone on and taken full advantage of the decision by winning 5-1.

I wonder what his opinion would have been had Lyle not been sent off and Queen of the South had got something out of the match.

emerald green
30-08-2015, 01:53 PM
Presumably the QOS fans will be organising a petition to have today's referee banned from handling any of their matches in future. :cb

Keith_M
30-08-2015, 02:06 PM
QOS player sent off

Rangers awarded two penalties.

Warburton must be thinking this Management carry on is a doddle nowadays.

Smartie
30-08-2015, 02:20 PM
Not sure the fact that a fourth official exists in more of their games than in others is necessarily in itself an advantage for them. The official is allowed to give decisions both ways (whether they choose to or not) and might just as easily have picked up on something that a The Rangers player did.

They'd probably argue (as I'm sure the OF did previously when their players seemed to be more regularly retrospectively done for things) that the extra scrutiny is actually a disadvantage.

The fact that an official has the power to melt into the background if they want to avoid the controversy and aggro that goes with giving a decision against the Old Firm most definitely is an advantage though.

Scottie
30-08-2015, 02:58 PM
Just heard on sportsound that it was the fourth official that instigated the controversial sending off of Derek Lyall of QOS against Rangers. In the Championship fourth officials are only required for televised matches so given that The Rangers will be the "most televised" team in the championship does this constitute the lack of a level playing field ?
Excellent point but unfortunately nothing we can do about it.

Mr White
30-08-2015, 03:24 PM
Some IT genius needs to develop software that can analysis a match from say 6 fixed camera angles, one in the centre of each stand and one on each goal line and process the correct decision. Could do away with refs altogether in professional matches and with them the human error factor and accusations of bias.

green day
30-08-2015, 03:26 PM
Some IT genius needs to develop software that can analysis a match from say 6 fixed camera angles, one in the centre of each stand and one on each goal line and process the correct decision. Could do away with refs altogether in professional matches and with them the human error factor and accusations of bias.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just ask Robbie Neilson to tell the ref what the right decision is?

Mr White
30-08-2015, 03:28 PM
Wouldn't it be simpler to just ask Robbie Neilson to tell the ref what the right decision is?

Or bypass him and ask craig levein directly :greengrin

The_Sauz
30-08-2015, 03:36 PM
Yet Kris Boyd got away with it at Ibrox last season when he did the same thing on Foster!
Maybe the 4th official was tying his lace and never saw it, just like the Moshni punch on Fontaine :rolleyes:

ekhibee
30-08-2015, 05:16 PM
That's easy to say when your team's just gone on and taken full advantage of the decision by winning 5-1.

I wonder what his opinion would have been had Lyle not been sent off and Queen of the South had got something out of the match.
my mistake, he shouldn't have said anything at all after the game about it.

Sir David Gray
30-08-2015, 05:21 PM
my mistake, he shouldn't have said anything at all after the game about it.

Who's saying that?

I'm just saying that it's easy for a winning manager to express sympathy for the opposition when they've had a man sent off.

ekhibee
30-08-2015, 05:25 PM
Who's saying that?

I'm just saying that it's easy for a winning manager to express sympathy for the opposition when they've had a man sent off.
And I'm saying that he was asked about it so obviously he's got to give some answer. Most managers say they didn't see it or something like that, at least he had the honesty to say how it was, regardless of whether they went on to win it.

Sir David Gray
30-08-2015, 05:32 PM
And I'm saying that he was asked about it so obviously he's got to give some answer. Most managers say they didn't see it or something like that, at least he had the honesty to say how it was, regardless of whether they went on to win it.

Fair enough, I just think he may have given a different answer if Lyle had stayed on the pitch and Queen of the South had gone on to take something from the match, that's all.

Argylehibby
30-08-2015, 08:18 PM
Not sure the fact that a fourth official exists in more of their games than in others is necessarily in itself an advantage for them. The official is allowed to give decisions both ways (whether they choose to or not) and might just as easily have picked up on something that a The Rangers player did.

They'd probably argue (as I'm sure the OF did previously when their players seemed to be more regularly retrospectively done for things) that the extra scrutiny is actually a disadvantage.

The fact that an official has the power to melt into the background if they want to avoid the controversy and aggro that goes with giving a decision against the Old Firm most definitely is an advantage though.

They complained often that they got caught more than anyone else because they were on the telly more. The other way you could look at it though is that referees seemed to miss more of their indiscretions than anyone else's!

ekhibee
30-08-2015, 09:33 PM
Fair enough, I just think he may have given a different answer if Lyle had stayed on the pitch and Queen of the South had gone on to take something from the match, that's all.
You're quite right mate, sorry, wasn't trying to start an argument, think we were just coming at it from different angles.

NAE NOOKIE
30-08-2015, 10:22 PM
The sending off was an utter joke and the first penalty wasn't much better ............ QotS not the team they were last season by the looks of it.

J-C
31-08-2015, 06:54 AM
The sending off was an utter joke and the first penalty wasn't much better ............ QotS not the team they were last season by the looks of it.


They'd won their first 3 games until yesterday, so not that bad a team, a better start than we've had, looks like it was just one of those days for them.

JimBHibees
31-08-2015, 09:11 AM
Just watched the highlights for an experienced player Lyle was very stupid to make the head motion especially with the 4th official a yard away. First penalty was never a pen in a million years. Rangers looked sharp and good going forward..

dangermouse
31-08-2015, 09:30 AM
Fairly certain there was a fourth official at ER on Saturday dealing with the subs.

NAE NOOKIE
31-08-2015, 10:15 AM
Just watched the highlights for an experienced player Lyle was very stupid to make the head motion especially with the 4th official a yard away. First penalty was never a pen in a million years. Rangers looked sharp and good going forward..

Unfortunately at the moment they look capable of blowing everybody apart from us away ..... The hardest away games in this league are QotS, Falkirk, Raith Rovers and I would think St Mirren once they get their act together. At the moment I just cant see the Zombies dropping more points at these venues than we will. That's not a criticism of Hibs, just an assessment based on the way the season has started.

erin go bragh
31-08-2015, 10:48 AM
Unfortunately at the moment they look capable of blowing everybody apart from us away ..... The hardest away games in this league are QotS, Falkirk, Raith Rovers and I would think St Mirren once they get their act together. At the moment I just cant see the Zombies dropping more points at these venues than we will. That's not a criticism of Hibs, just an assessment based on the way the season has started.
I concur NN . We have to at least equal there results til we play them . Must beat them at ER . We will need to beat them in all the three games if we are to win the league imho .

GGTTH

Velma Dinkley
31-08-2015, 10:50 AM
Unfortunately at the moment they look capable of blowing everybody apart from us away ..... The hardest away games in this league are QotS, Falkirk, Raith Rovers and I would think St Mirren once they get their act together. At the moment I just cant see the Zombies dropping more points at these venues than we will. That's not a criticism of Hibs, just an assessment based on the way the season has started.

The Rangers won comfortably against us when we had 6-8 potential first team players injured. They've also won comfortably against part time teams and teams that have had a player sent off. Apart from that they have struggled and relied on huge chunks of luck/favourable (dodgy) decisions. I'm sure they will drop plenty of points over the course of the season. It's up to us to drop less.:flag:

NAE NOOKIE
31-08-2015, 11:22 AM
The Rangers won comfortably against us when we had 6-8 potential first team players injured. They've also won comfortably against part time teams and teams that have had a player sent off. Apart from that they have struggled and relied on huge chunks of luck/favourable (dodgy) decisions. I'm sure they will drop plenty of points over the course of the season. It's up to us to drop less.:flag:

I wasn't counting the 2 - 6 game ..... we were the better team until our makeshift midfield fell apart.

Waxy
31-08-2015, 11:23 AM
Warburton will get sacked in 2 or 3 years for a lack of getting anywhere near Celtic. His end is written already.

Canon Hannan
31-08-2015, 02:14 PM
He must be taken aback by how many things seem to go Rangers' way up here. He isn't used to it.

The referee was a Rangers season ticket holder in the past too.

liamh2202
31-08-2015, 02:45 PM
The referee was a Rangers season ticket holder in the past too.

Because he is a football fan should that mean he can't referee?

Sylar
31-08-2015, 03:49 PM
The referee was a Rangers season ticket holder in the past too.

I've read this a few times now - same thing was said of Steven McLean last week too. Two quick questions though:

1) Why does this mean they can't referee? I think most officials support one club or another in Scotland (indeed, a well known linesman is a Hearts fan and former ST holder at Tynecastle and has been hounded from the stands for some decisions he's given against them in recent years - however, he's fair and impartial in his role but makes mistakes).

2) Is there any actual evidence that he was a ST holder at Ibrox? Sounds like the kind of thing that would be cooked up on Kerrydale Street or its ilk to satisfy an explanation behind a 'bad' refereeing performance.

Onion
31-08-2015, 03:58 PM
Because he is a football fan should that mean he can't referee?

Since when has anyone gone to Ibrox to simply enjoy the football ? The Rangers fans are notorious for their sectarianism, hatred, violence, tribalism, hooliganism, and "no one like us" self pity. Anyone who voluntarily goes along to Ibrox on a regular basis is there for a lot more than a game of football, and are of questionable character and integrity.

Sylar
31-08-2015, 04:02 PM
Since when has anyone gone to Ibrox to simply enjoy the football ? The Rangers fans are notorious for their sectarianism, hatred, violence, tribalism, hooliganism, and "no one like us" self pity. Anyone who voluntarily goes along to Ibrox on a regular basis is there for a lot more than a game of football, and are of questionable character and integrity.

Total bollocks :agree:

Canon Hannan
31-08-2015, 05:04 PM
Since when has anyone gone to Ibrox to simply enjoy the football ? The Rangers fans are notorious for their sectarianism, hatred, violence, tribalism, hooliganism, and "no one like us" self pity. Anyone who voluntarily goes along to Ibrox on a regular basis is there for a lot more than a game of football, and are of questionable character and integrity.

Great post and clearly true. Top post.

liamh2202
31-08-2015, 05:37 PM
Since when has anyone gone to Ibrox to simply enjoy the football ? The Rangers fans are notorious for their sectarianism, hatred, violence, tribalism, hooliganism, and "no one like us" self pity. Anyone who voluntarily goes along to Ibrox on a regular basis is there for a lot more than a game of football, and are of questionable character and integrity.

Utter crap my friend

emerald green
31-08-2015, 06:48 PM
Because he is a football fan should that mean he can't referee?

It's not necessarily being a football fan though. It's when someone is a "fan" of a particular club. That's different.

[QUOTE=Sylar;4456212]I've read this a few times now - same thing was said of Steven McLean last week too. Two quick questions though:

1) Why does this mean they can't referee?

It doesn't mean they can't referee. However, if an official is or was an acknowledged/proven supporter of a particular club (especially if they were at some point a season ticket holder, thus showing a high level of allegiance to that club IMO) do you honestly believe that allegiance can and always is completely forgotten when that official takes charge of his favourite club's fixture(s)? His judgement and impartiality would never be affected in the slightest in the scenario described above?

--------
31-08-2015, 07:00 PM
Since when has anyone gone to Ibrox to simply enjoy the football ? The Rangers fans are notorious for their sectarianism, hatred, violence, tribalism, hooliganism, and "no one like us" self pity. Anyone who voluntarily goes along to Ibrox on a regular basis is there for a lot more than a game of football, and are of questionable character and integrity.


Do you mean ALL of them?

Because I know a lot of Rangers supporters around Lanarkshire, and what you've posted there about "the Rangers fans" - which certainly seems to mean all of them - is totally and utterly untrue.

SOME are like that. Maybe even A LOT of them are like that.

But cast your eye over some of the threads on THIS forum and you'll find people who're guilty of hatred, tribalism, and 'no one likes us' self-pity.

Sectarianism, violence, and hooliganism? Well, I've encountered all three at ER over the years. And you can add arrogance and self-righteousness as well.

liamh2202
31-08-2015, 07:12 PM
It's not necessarily being a football fan though. It's when someone is a "fan" of a particular club. That's different.

[QUOTE=Sylar;4456212]I've read this a few times now - same thing was said of Steven McLean last week too. Two quick questions though:

1) Why does this mean they can't referee?

It doesn't mean they can't referee. However, if an official is or was an acknowledged/proven supporter of a particular club (especially if they were at some point a season ticket holder, thus showing a high level of allegiance to that club IMO) do you honestly believe that allegiance can and always is completely forgotten when that official takes charge of his favourite club's fixture(s)? His judgement and impartiality would never be affected in the slightest in the scenario described above?

Yes

ancient hibee
31-08-2015, 07:23 PM
It's not necessarily being a football fan though. It's when someone is a "fan" of a particular club. That's different.

[QUOTE=Sylar;4456212]I've read this a few times now - same thing was said of Steven McLean last week too. Two quick questions though:

1) Why does this mean they can't referee?

It doesn't mean they can't referee. However, if an official is or was an acknowledged/proven supporter of a particular club (especially if they were at some point a season ticket holder, thus showing a high level of allegiance to that club IMO) do you honestly believe that allegiance can and always is completely forgotten when that official takes charge of his favourite club's fixture(s)? His judgement and impartiality would never be affected in the slightest in the scenario described above?

So does that mean anyone who was Hibs daft as a kid and through his teens shouldn't be allowed to referee Hibs games or in fact any games in case he really disliked all other clubs?

emerald green
31-08-2015, 07:27 PM
Yes

OK that's your view and who is to say you aren't right? Call me cynical if you like, but I would find it hard to believe that impartiality would be maintained all the time in the circumstances I described in my earlier post.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

liamh2202
31-08-2015, 07:32 PM
OK that's your view and who is to say you aren't right? Call me cynical if you like, but I would find it hard to believe that impartiality would be maintained all the time in the circumstances I described in my earlier post.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yeh its just my view.I apologise Didn't mean to be blunt. My view of referees is similar to players. And I know when I played for other teams I wanted to beat hibs just as much as anyone else. I think proffesional pride comes to the fore and refs just want to do a good job. I agree they often make mistakes but I feel that is just down to us having poor refs rather than anything more cynical.

emerald green
31-08-2015, 07:39 PM
Yeh its just my view.I apologise Didn't mean to be blunt. My view of referees is similar to players. And I know when I played for other teams I wanted to beat hibs just as much as anyone else. I think proffesional pride comes to the fore and refs just want to do a good job. I agree they often make mistakes but I feel that is just down to us having poor refs rather than anything more cynical.

No apology needed. Yours is fair comment.

We just have different opinions on this subject, although I do agree with you that we do have some poor refs. :aok:

ancient hibee
31-08-2015, 07:41 PM
Refs do make mistakes but seldom as many as are made by the players.

emerald green
31-08-2015, 07:54 PM
So does that mean anyone who was Hibs daft as a kid and through his teens shouldn't be allowed to referee Hibs games or in fact any games in case he really disliked all other clubs?

No, of course not. How could it be proved which other clubs he really disliked for starters?

My point / question was whether someone who has or had a proven allegiance to a particular club (the example I gave was of a season ticket holder) could never allow that allegiance to affect his judgement and impartiality at all times if he was refereeing a match involving that club.