Shooting of news crew in America

[HH81]

See two have been shot while filming live.

The world has gone mad!

[HibsMax]

See two have been shot while filming live.

The world has gone mad!
Just saw that about an hour ago. Suspect is known and expected to be picked up soon. Potentially a disgruntled employee.

Update: They have him but it's not clear if he's dead or alive. He shot himself.

[The Gorf]

America.......guns. Say no more.
RIP to the two shot dead. Just watched it in the news. The camaraman who was shot dead caught the guy on his camera before the fatal shot.

[HibsMax]

America.......guns. Say no more.
RIP to the two shot dead. Just watched it in the news. The camaraman who was shot dead caught the guy on his camera before the fatal shot.

That's a little unfair but I can certainly see why non-Americans see it this way. Believe it or not, there is a large percentage of Americans who are unhappy with the number of people killed and injured by people with guns. There are many people who want change. There's also a large number of Americans who believe that the solution is more guns, but it's not the majority. Strangely enough I can see where those people are coming from. I mean, if you live in a country where there is a genuine risk of being shot then you have one of three options:
1. never leave your house,
2. leave the country,
3. protect yourself.

There is an unlisted 4th option, remove guns from society, and the reason I didn't list it is that I just don't see that ever happening.

I have no issue with people protecting themselves but they have to be smart about it. An improperly secured weapon is just as dangerous as a stolen weapon. If I bought a firearm and left it lying around the house (which should be safe, we have no kids) and then someone broke into my house, found the gun and stole it...that would be on me. It's not my fault that my house was broken into but it's 100% my duty to make sure that my firearm(s) are properly secured at all times. The issue that some people have with that is that a properly secured weapon is of no use in an emergency if you have to go through one or more layers of security to get access to it.

[RyeSloan]

That's a little unfair but I can certainly see why non-Americans see it this way. Believe it or not, there is a large percentage of Americans who are unhappy with the number of people killed and injured by people with guns. There are many people who want change. There's also a large number of Americans who believe that the solution is more guns, but it's not the majority. Strangely enough I can see where those people are coming from. I mean, if you live in a country where there is a genuine risk of being shot then you have one of three options: 1. never leave your house, 2. leave the country, 3. protect yourself. There is an unlisted 4th option, remove guns from society, and the reason I didn't list it is that I just don't see that ever happening. I have no issue with people protecting themselves but they have to be smart about it. An improperly secured weapon is just as dangerous as a stolen weapon. If I bought a firearm and left it lying around the house (which should be safe, we have no kids) and then someone broke into my house, found the gun and stole it...that would be on me. It's not my fault that my house was broken into but it's 100% my duty to make sure that my firearm(s) are properly secured at all times. The issue that some people have with that is that a properly secured weapon is of no use in an emergency if you have to go through one or more layers of security to get access to it.

It's crystal clear the guns are the problem but gawd knows what the solution is in a society where so many firearms already exist and a large portion of that society support (or at least tolerate to some degree) their presence...seems an intractable problem to me.

[calumhibee1]

I'm of the same opinion as SiMar. I can't see how they can fix this, but it's totally out of control. The last year or two in the USA has been nothing short of ridiculous.

[Jim44]

The Sun apparently have a picture of the murderer's hand with a flash from the gun aimed at the female reporter. They also give a link to view the video of the murder. Their morality has no bounds.

[Northernhibee]

The Sun apparently have a picture of the murderer's hand with a flash from the gun aimed at the female reporter. They also give a link to view the video of the murder. Their morality has no bounds.

The Daily Star also had that picture too and the Daily Mail website similarly.

That's not journalism, that's tragedy porn.

[Mikey09]

That's a little unfair but I can certainly see why non-Americans see it this way. Believe it or not, there is a large percentage of Americans who are unhappy with the number of people killed and injured by people with guns. There are many people who want change. There's also a large number of Americans who believe that the solution is more guns, but it's not the majority. Strangely enough I can see where those people are coming from. I mean, if you live in a country where there is a genuine risk of being shot then you have one of three options:
1. never leave your house,
2. leave the country,
3. protect yourself.

There is an unlisted 4th option, remove guns from society, and the reason I didn't list it is that I just don't see that ever happening.

I have no issue with people protecting themselves but they have to be smart about it. An improperly secured weapon is just as dangerous as a stolen weapon. If I bought a firearm and left it lying around the house (which should be safe, we have no kids) and then someone broke into my house, found the gun and stole it...that would be on me. It's not my fault that my house was broken into but it's 100% my duty to make sure that my firearm(s) are properly secured at all times. The issue that some people have with that is that a properly secured weapon is of no use in an emergency if you have to go through one or more layers of security to get access to it.



Then the Americans who believe this must collectively make this happen!! Keep looking the other way and nothing will happen... Sorry that's not true, more innocent children will be slaughtered. It's this BULL**** "right to bear arms" that the Yanks are so hung up on that is the problem.
Huge change in attitude and a reality check on your rights is needed over the pond HibsMax...

[DH1875]

I have no issue with people protecting themselves but they have to be smart about it. An improperly secured weapon is just as dangerous as a stolen weapon. If I bought a firearm and left it lying around the house (which should be safe, we have no kids) and then someone broke into my house, found the gun and stole it...that would be on me. It's not my fault that my house was broken into but it's 100% my duty to make sure that my firearm(s) are properly secured at all times. The issue that some people have with that is that a properly secured weapon is of no use in an emergency if you have to go through one or more layers of security to get access to it.

Other than a safe there's not many safe places to keep the gun. If its in a drawer then the guy robbing your house can easily find it. Problem with a safe is the time it could take to get the gun from it. Are you gonna say to the guy that's broke in, 2 minutes mate while I get my gun? The other problem is that the guy breaking in might think, hold on a minute, they've got a safe, they must be minted. I've no problem with people protecting themselves but why a gun. Why not baseball bats. I believe baseball is very popular in America and that a lot of people have them. Keep one at the side of the bed, you here a noise, grab it and go see what the noise is. If you see some random guy in your kitchen then blam you hit him with it. No one needs to be shot and no one is stealing guns. Course you could always keep the gun locked up safe at the gun club but then that aint gonna protect you much at home is it.

[Speedy]

Other than a safe there's not many safe places to keep the gun. If its in a drawer then the guy robbing your house can easily find it. Problem with a safe is the time it could take to get the gun from it. Are you gonna say to the guy that's broke in, 2 minutes mate while I get my gun? The other problem is that the guy breaking in might think, hold on a minute, they've got a safe, they must be minted. I've no problem with people protecting themselves but why a gun. Why not baseball bats. I believe baseball is very popular in America and that a lot of people have them. Keep one at the side of the bed, you here a noise, grab it and go see what the noise is. If you see some random guy in your kitchen then blam you hit him with it. No one needs to be shot and no one is stealing guns. Course you could always keep the gun locked up safe at the gun club but then that aint gonna protect you much at home is it.

There's an argument to say a baseball bat is no use against a robber with a gun.

I struggle to see a solution. Even if they were banned it's unlikely that the bams would hand them in.

[lord bunberry]

Other than a safe there's not many safe places to keep the gun. If its in a drawer then the guy robbing your house can easily find it. Problem with a safe is the time it could take to get the gun from it. Are you gonna say to the guy that's broke in, 2 minutes mate while I get my gun? The other problem is that the guy breaking in might think, hold on a minute, they've got a safe, they must be minted. I've no problem with people protecting themselves but why a gun. Why not baseball bats. I believe baseball is very popular in America and that a lot of people have them. Keep one at the side of the bed, you here a noise, grab it and go see what the noise is. If you see some random guy in your kitchen then blam you hit him with it. No one needs to be shot and no one is stealing guns. Course you could always keep the gun locked up safe at the gun club but then that aint gonna protect you much at home is it.
I suppose the argument with that will be that a baseball bat isn't going to be much use if the random guy in your kitchen has a gun. The answer is to get rid of all the guns, it might not happen in one go, but they need to keep chipping away at it.

[heretoday]

Baseball bat's not much use unless you are physically able to wield it with power. I'll stick with the Magnum and the dodgy Clint Eastwood impression.

Sorry to joke but the whole world is going to hell and there's no stopping it. USA aren't going to "get rid of all the guns". Won't happen.

[Hibrandenburg]

I know this clip is a comedy sketch but there are some very valid points. Don't get put off by the guys name :greengrin


http://youtu.be/HTyQ4Q8z-D8

[lord bunberry]

I know this clip is a comedy sketch but there are some very valid points. Don't get put off by the guys name :greengrin


http://youtu.be/HTyQ4Q8z-D8
He's got balls doing that in America

[Sergio sledge]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics

Yet many Americans believe that "more guns" is the answer?

[HibsMax]

It's crystal clear the guns are the problem but gawd knows what the solution is in a society where so many firearms already exist and a large portion of that society support (or at least tolerate to some degree) their presence...seems an intractable problem to me.
I don't think it's crystal clear. I'm not a gun nut, don't own any, but I am a believer in the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" mantra. I am not a Trump supporter either but I agree with his comment of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental [health] problem"

Don't get me wrong, if there were no guns in this country then I absolutely believe there would be less violent crime but I still see this as being about the individuals. I think the proper question should be, "Why are Americans killing each other at such an alarming rate?".

[HibsMax]

Then the Americans who believe this must collectively make this happen!! Keep looking the other way and nothing will happen... Sorry that's not true, more innocent children will be slaughtered. It's this BULL**** "right to bear arms" that the Yanks are so hung up on that is the problem.
Huge change in attitude and a reality check on your rights is needed over the pond HibsMax...

How do you make it happen? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking a genuine question. One reason, perhaps THE reason, that people will give you for not turning over their guns is that they believe the only people who will be left with guns will be the police and criminals. Police response times, depending on where you live, can be too long to save your life and people understandably want to protect themselves from criminals. I'm not saying this is my argument (I don't own any guns) but it's the toughest argument you will likely come across. How do you tell a person they don't have the right to defend their family?

The second amendment is only one argument people might use, and not everybody uses it. It's out-dated and reflects a different time.

[HibsMax]

Other than a safe there's not many safe places to keep the gun. If its in a drawer then the guy robbing your house can easily find it. Problem with a safe is the time it could take to get the gun from it. Are you gonna say to the guy that's broke in, 2 minutes mate while I get my gun? The other problem is that the guy breaking in might think, hold on a minute, they've got a safe, they must be minted. I've no problem with people protecting themselves but why a gun. Why not baseball bats. I believe baseball is very popular in America and that a lot of people have them. Keep one at the side of the bed, you here a noise, grab it and go see what the noise is. If you see some random guy in your kitchen then blam you hit him with it. No one needs to be shot and no one is stealing guns. Course you could always keep the gun locked up safe at the gun club but then that aint gonna protect you much at home is it.
Yup, that's the argument that some people use for not securing their firearm. That could really back fire if someone armed with a knife breaks into your house and finds your gun, only to use it on you!

The answer to "why a gun?" is because, without the element of surprise, a gun is pretty much superior to all other forms of self defence.

[HibsMax]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics

Yet many Americans believe that "more guns" is the answer?
I hear that all the time and I wonder if that point of view is being skewed a little? More guns is clearly not the solution to gun crime BUT people arming themselves for self protection is ONE possible solution to avoiding getting killed. However, when you put it in terms like that, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that a modern civilisation should be resorting to.

The solution is multi-faceted. We've got to determine why violent crime is so high in the first place. I don't believe guns should be banned but the sale of certain types of guns should definitely be off the table. No citizen needs a fully automatic assault rifle.

[Haymaker]

I hear that all the time and I wonder if that point of view is being skewed a little? More guns is clearly not the solution to gun crime BUT people arming themselves for self protection is ONE possible solution to avoiding getting killed. However, when you put it in terms like that, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that a modern civilisation should be resorting to.

The solution is multi-faceted. We've got to determine why violent crime is so high in the first place. I don't believe guns should be banned but the sale of certain types of guns should definitely be off the table. No citizen needs a fully automatic assault rifle.

The idea of everyone being armed is interesting. I kinda see what people are saying but in reality would I react if I was being shot at? I would probably **** myself. A good friend of mine who served in the Guards regiments says he would be able to react - but he has 10 years hard training. I wouldn't and I doubt many others would react and take down a shooter.

We have had this discussion many times and I honestly don't see how it can be resolved. America is a very complicated country - I often describe it as 50 countries in one.

[Onceinawhile]

http://youtu.be/p1qE8eDkzgE

Given that bill died in 93 it shows how long it's been going on.

[Mikey09]

How do you make it happen? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking a genuine question. One reason, perhaps THE reason, that people will give you for not turning over their guns is that they believe the only people who will be left with guns will be the police and criminals. Police response times, depending on where you live, can be too long to save your life and people understandably want to protect themselves from criminals. I'm not saying this is my argument (I don't own any guns) but it's the toughest argument you will likely come across. How do you tell a person they don't have the right to defend their family?

The second amendment is only one argument people might use, and not everybody uses it. It's out-dated and reflects a different time.


Im in no way daft enough to think there is an easy solution to this, however the thing that saddens me is the grip the NRA have over the American government. Self interest of staying in office obviously comes before tackling the shocking gun crime and the slaughtering of kids for them. They disgust me. People should be battering down the doors of there congressman demanding change! I know cultures are different between us but the fixation with guns is one of the biggest differences I see. I don't claim to have the answers but as I stated something needs to be done...and something is better than nothing because what's happening just now isn't working. That's obvious to us all. :agree:

[RyeSloan]

I don't think it's crystal clear. I'm not a gun nut, don't own any, but I am a believer in the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" mantra. I am not a Trump supporter either but I agree with his comment of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental [health] problem" Don't get me wrong, if there were no guns in this country then I absolutely believe there would be less violent crime but I still see this as being about the individuals. I think the proper question should be, "Why are Americans killing each other at such an alarming rate?".

Fair points Max but the statistics show otherwise...more guns tends to equal more gun deaths (and suicides) ergo less guns less gun crime.

People may well kill people but having a society awash with guns (of any type) simply makes that much easier. Not exactly a hardened killer myself but I would assume it's rather easier to pull a trigger of a gun than it is to get up close and personal to bludgeon or knife someone to death.

I get that it's easy to pontificate from a society that is largely gun free and as I said earlier the U.S. would appear to have an intractable problem but until people like yourself and millions others get off the fence and realise that in fact it is the guns that kill people and that there is plenty of evidence that removing guns lowers gun crime and death rates then the issue will rumble on and the deaths and multiple shootings will continue ad infinitum.

As for your final point as to why do Americans kill each other at such an alarming rate? Well as a society you have made that much easier by tolerating a gun culture....make it harder to kill each other and there will be less killing. Not going to happen though as some states can't even bring themselves to force bikers to wear helmets for gawds sake!

[DH1875]

If guns were as easy to come by here in the UK then there would be a lot more gun crime and deaths. I believe that when someone has a breakdown and goes out shooting people, 9 out of 10 times its because the gun was sitting there. Something in them snaps and off they go. Make it harder for people to get guns and you reduce the chances of this happening IMO.
Can just about anyone still buy a gun in America? Remember you had to wait a few weeks if you wanted to buy a big one but think you could buy the wee one then and there. Is that still the case?

[Beefster]

The Sun apparently have a picture of the murderer's hand with a flash from the gun aimed at the female reporter. They also give a link to view the video of the murder. Their morality has no bounds.


The Daily Star also had that picture too and the Daily Mail website similarly.

That's not journalism, that's tragedy porn.

There's a lot of hypocrisy in the media too. The Guardian has a video on its site of a policeman being shot in a massacre a couple of years ago but seems to be 'taking a stand' with the Virginia shooting videos.

[Steve-O]

I don't think it's crystal clear. I'm not a gun nut, don't own any, but I am a believer in the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" mantra. I am not a Trump supporter either but I agree with his comment of "it's not a gun problem, it's a mental [health] problem"

Don't get me wrong, if there were no guns in this country then I absolutely believe there would be less violent crime but I still see this as being about the individuals. I think the proper question should be, "Why are Americans killing each other at such an alarming rate?".

It's true to an extent, but people with guns kill people a lot easier than people without guns.

[Keith_M]

The answer to not being killed by someone with a gun in the US, while going about your everyday routine, is apparently, to carry a gun yourself.

Whether you are a local newspaper reporter filming an interview about a trivial story or a schoolteacher in a kindergarten, you should be armed like Rambo at all times.

Though, quite how two people interviewing someone on camera could both concentrate on the interview and, at the same time, have 360 degree vision for any potential shooter, I'll leave it for others to explain.

[Just Alf]

15353

[GreenLake]

There are loads of guns in Canada and I think it might be easier to buy them and ammo too. They don't seem to shoot each other much.

Many of the inexplicable shootings over the last few years were carried out by individuals reported to be on psych meds. Are they something to do with it? Perhaps psych meds are at least an indicator that there are a significant number of individuals with the potential to turn violently insane with a weapon.

One thing that gets me when I read about a mass shooting followed by the suicide of the perpetrator is why didn't the rat not just do himself first?

Taking out drug, gang and suicide related gun deaths the figures are still much higher than in the UK but I think there is a much more serious statistical threat from a car accident. You have to see the way some people drive here to believe it.

[HibsMax]

Fair points Max but the statistics show otherwise...more guns tends to equal more gun deaths (and suicides) ergo less guns less gun crime.
No doubt. All you need to do is start with "No guns = No gun crime" - it's difficult to argue against that. I'm not trying to take anyone's gun(s) away from them BUT if there was a way that guns could be removed from society, I would be up for that.


People may well kill people but having a society awash with guns (of any type) simply makes that much easier. Not exactly a hardened killer myself but I would assume it's rather easier to pull a trigger of a gun than it is to get up close and personal to bludgeon or knife someone to death.
I'm in the same boat as you. I imagine plunging a knife into someone's stomach while looking them in the eye as their life drains out of them would be quite traumatising. However, and I don't know this myself, I imagine that in the heat of the moment, if fighting for your life, it would be a lot easier. One of the morbid thoughts I've had (not recurring, I don't need therapy) is imagining how I would react if someone was trying to kill me. Would I fight back or would I be frozen by fear and "allow" myself to be killed? How does a person ever know? It doesn't matter what I think I would do, it matters what I would actually do. I hope I don't have to find out.


I get that it's easy to pontificate from a society that is largely gun free and as I said earlier the U.S. would appear to have an intractable problem but until people like yourself and millions others get off the fence and realise that in fact it is the guns that kill people and that there is plenty of evidence that removing guns lowers gun crime and death rates then the issue will rumble on and the deaths and multiple shootings will continue ad infinitum.
I'm not really on the fence, I just disagree with you slightly. We agree that guns make it easier to kill a person but I don't believe that a gun makes a person a killer. You have to have that screw loose in the first place IMO.


As for your final point as to why do Americans kill each other at such an alarming rate? Well as a society you have made that much easier by tolerating a gun culture....make it harder to kill each other and there will be less killing. Not going to happen though as some states can't even bring themselves to force bikers to wear helmets for gawds sake! (New Hampshire is one of those states.)
I wonder though. If guns were much harder to come by, what would all those mass killers do instead? Nothing? There are a lot of f'ed up individuals and even though a gun makes their mission easier to achieve, they still have a mission and without a gun I'm not so sure they wouldn't execute it using something else e.g., homemade bomb, a car, etc. That is not an argument to not get rid of guns, it's just an observation that we need to figure out what makes these people snap and, more importantly, figure out how to spot the signs before they go totally nuts. I don't doubt that there are some mass killers who would not have carried out their plan if they couldn't get a gun, but what happens to their sickness? They still need help.

[HibsMax]

If guns were as easy to come by here in the UK then there would be a lot more gun crime and deaths. I believe that when someone has a breakdown and goes out shooting people, 9 out of 10 times its because the gun was sitting there. Something in them snaps and off they go. Make it harder for people to get guns and you reduce the chances of this happening IMO.
Can just about anyone still buy a gun in America? Remember you had to wait a few weeks if you wanted to buy a big one but think you could buy the wee one then and there. Is that still the case?
Gun laws vary by state. I don't have any first hand experience buying guns but my understanding is that you can buy guns quite easily through certain channels e.g., gun shows. There are waiting periods but that depends on state and I don't know all the state laws. I know that in Massachusetts, the closer you are to Boston, the harder it is to get a permit to the extent that it's pretty much impossible to be a Boston resident and buy a gun. Get out into the boonies (30 miles or so) and it's much easier.

Dylann Roof, the kid who shot up the church in North Carolina, should not have passed the background check because of a misdemeanour but that wasn't caught. There are flaws. I've even heard that if the background check is taking too long, the sale can still go through. WTF!?! Why have a background check then?

[HibsMax]

The answer to not being killed by someone with a gun in the US, while going about your everyday routine, is apparently, to carry a gun yourself.

Whether you are a local newspaper reporter filming an interview about a trivial story or a schoolteacher in a kindergarten, you should be armed like Rambo at all times.

Though, quite how two people interviewing someone on camera could both concentrate on the interview and, at the same time, have 360 degree vision for any potential shooter, I'll leave it for others to explain.

People have suggested guns in schools and churches. That just sends a shiver down my spine.

[HibsMax]

15353
:agree:

[HibsMax]

There are loads of guns in Canada and I think it might be easier to buy them and ammo too. They don't seem to shoot each other much.

Many of the inexplicable shootings over the last few years were carried out by individuals reported to be on psych meds. Are they something to do with it? Perhaps psych meds are at least an indicator that there are a significant number of individuals with the potential to turn violently insane with a weapon.

One thing that gets me when I read about a mass shooting followed by the suicide of the perpetrator is why didn't the rat not just do himself first?

Taking out drug, gang and suicide related gun deaths the figures are still much higher than in the UK but I think there is a much more serious statistical threat from a car accident. You have to see the way some people drive here to believe it.
Precisely. Ok, so you're hurting inside and you think the world owes you something. I would prefer that you didn't kill yourself but if murder-suicide is the route you're taking, why not try suicide-murder instead?

[Hibrandenburg]

Saw a statistic recently that puts the whole gun situation in the US into perspective for me.

"Over 40 million Americans suffer from mental illness, only some of them can afford treatment but all of them can buy guns".

[calumhibee1]

There are loads of guns in Canada and I think it might be easier to buy them and ammo too. They don't seem to shoot each other much.

Many of the inexplicable shootings over the last few years were carried out by individuals reported to be on psych meds. Are they something to do with it? Perhaps psych meds are at least an indicator that there are a significant number of individuals with the potential to turn violently insane with a weapon.

One thing that gets me when I read about a mass shooting followed by the suicide of the perpetrator is why didn't the rat not just do himself first?

Taking out drug, gang and suicide related gun deaths the figures are still much higher than in the UK but I think there is a much more serious statistical threat from a car accident. You have to see the way some people drive here to believe it.

:agree: When I was in Miami the other month I seen a woman driving with her left foot out the window sitting on her wing mirror while on the phone. This was on a highway while doing about 70mph with a kid in the back.

[Peevemor]

:agree: When I was in Miami the other month I seen a woman driving with her left foot out the window sitting on her wing mirror while on the phone. This was on a highway while doing about 70mph with a kid in the back.

I have a bagpipe playing pal (Weegie) who, on long road trips, regularly plays his practice chanter while steering with his knees. On extra long trips, he's even been known to 'crack one off' to break up the journey.

[DaveF]

I have a bagpipe playing pal (Weegie) who, on long road trips, regularly plays his practice chanter while steering with his knees. On extra long trips, he's even been known to 'crack one off' to break up the journey.

You need some new pals :-)