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View Full Version : Yesterday's refeee, Mr A Sash of Broxburn/Bridgeton



Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2015, 09:48 AM
Yet another man of the match award at Ibrox goes to the referee. What a disgrace to the game that man was/is. I'm still fuming at his abysmal performance.

It was never a free kick for he goal.
Wilson was booked then immediately committed another foul!
Wallace could have had three yellows.
Nude nut Law could have been out there with a crow bar and wouldn't have been booked.
He couldn't wait to book Hibs players, suddenly remembering he had coloured cards in his pocket.

Disgusted but unsurprised. How many times are we (and every other club) going to be cheated at the Bigot Bowl? Sick and tired of it.

S4uzee
24-08-2015, 09:51 AM
He failed to book Kiernan for a shocking tackle on Henderson then booked McGinn later on for less of a tackle - abysmal

Smartie
24-08-2015, 09:54 AM
I didn't think the referee was that bad.

He made the wrong call for the free-kick, no doubt about it. But we're talking about a free-kick out wide that the boy did brilliantly to score. Not a penalty, not a sending-off, not a game-changer. And you could see why, at the pace of play he might have given it - he'll have seen the ball strike the hand and then had to make a quick decision.

We lost that game because we missed our chances and a moment of inspiration for them meant they scored. We work taking our chances, we'll get better and we might have a chance.

If we keep looking to scapegoat referees or Oxley then we'll get nowhere.

NORTHERNHIBBY
24-08-2015, 09:57 AM
How many clear cut chances on goal did the referee miss?
Straws and clutch.

Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2015, 09:58 AM
I didn't think the referee was that bad.

He made the wrong call for the free-kick, no doubt about it. But we're talking about a free-kick out wide that the boy did brilliantly to score. Not a penalty, not a sending-off, not a game-changer. And you could see why, at the pace of play he might have given it - he'll have seen the ball strike the hand and then had to make a quick decision.

We lost that game because we missed our chances and a moment of inspiration for them meant they scored. We work taking our chances, we'll get better and we might have a chance.

If we keep looking to scapegoat referees or Oxley then we'll get nowhere.

Totally agree we didn't take our chances, but that clown in the middle robbed us of at least a point. We could easily have been playing nine men; no doubt he would have sent off Wilson and Wallace if they were Hibs players. Persistent fouling from Huns, whilst our players were in the booking for giving a Hun a nasty stare.

PatHead
24-08-2015, 10:01 AM
I didn't think the referee was that bad.

He made the wrong call for the free-kick, no doubt about it. But we're talking about a free-kick out wide that the boy did brilliantly to score. Not a penalty, not a sending-off, not a game-changer. And you could see why, at the pace of play he might have given it - he'll have seen the ball strike the hand and then had to make a quick decision.

We lost that game because we missed our chances and a moment of inspiration for them meant they scored. We work taking our chances, we'll get better and we might have a chance.

If we keep looking to scapegoat referees or Oxley then we'll get nowhere.

Agree we lost because we didn't take our chances.

It does not defend a poor referee. If you look at the tv pictures he could not have seen clearly that it was a handball, his positioning would not have allowed him to do so and there is a fair chance that there were also players in the way.

He should also have booked a couple of The Rangers players before even thinking about booking a Hibs player. Halliday was fouling on a regular basis but seemed to have an immunity from bookings. He was not slow to talk to their players (thugs) but never spoke to ours before booking them.

Leith Mo
24-08-2015, 10:28 AM
This is the man whose brother by many accounts was a player for the old club that played at Ibrox and who has been promised a hero's welcome by his brethren at the Beach Lane "social club". No impartiality there and clear bias demonstrated by some curious decisions. Yes we never took our chances but their twelfth man wasn't the bears in the stands but the man with the whistle (as usual).

JimBHibees
24-08-2015, 10:31 AM
This is the man whose brother by many accounts was a player for the old club that played at Ibrox and who has been promised a hero's welcome by his brethren at the Beach Lane "social club". No impartiality there and clear bias demonstrated by some curious decisions. Yes we never took our chances but their twelfth man wasn't the bears in the stands but the man with the whistle (as usual).

What are you on about?

Smartie
24-08-2015, 10:32 AM
Agree we lost because we didn't take our chances.

It does not defend a poor referee. If you look at the tv pictures he could not have seen clearly that it was a handball, his positioning would not have allowed him to do so and there is a fair chance that there were also players in the way.

He should also have booked a couple of The Rangers players before even thinking about booking a Hibs player. Halliday was fouling on a regular basis but seemed to have an immunity from bookings. He was not slow to talk to their players (thugs) but never spoke to ours before booking them.

I'm not saying he got the free-kick call right - having watched it replayed about 145 times I think he got it wrong.

All I'm saying is that it's one of those that you could see why he gave it - it's a tough call for a referee. He only gets one chance at it.

As for the bookings etc, it's hardly game-changing stuff.

Griffiths' shot that crossed the line, Craig Thomson's "performance" in the cup final - these are occasions when the refereeing has been dire and cost us matches.

I think we're clutching at straws going all guns blazing at the ref for yesterday.

We will get far worse than that over the course of this (and any) season. See the 2 stonewall penalties we were denied during the first half of last week's game for an example.

lucky
24-08-2015, 10:41 AM
I thought the ref was fine bar the free kick for the goal

JimBHibees
24-08-2015, 10:51 AM
I thought the ref was fine bar the free kick for the goal

I think that I would agree with that. Possibly Halliday should have been yellowed however not sure the Hibs bookings were poor decisions.

Future17
24-08-2015, 10:54 AM
I thought the ref was fine bar the free kick for the goal

:agree:

There were some decisions which would have angered supporters of either side as they were borderline, but that's the nature of football refereeing. All you're really looking for is consistency and I think that he did a decent job in that regard.

The free-kick decision for the goal was poor though. At that distance, with the ball travelling at the speed and McGeouch's arm by his side, you really have to see his arm move towards the ball (after it's kicked) in order to give a foul. I think he'll be disappointed with that one when he sees it again.

Sylar
24-08-2015, 11:00 AM
The scarcely concealed sectarianism in this thread is utterly nauseating.

PatHead
24-08-2015, 11:05 AM
I'm not saying he got the free-kick call right - having watched it replayed about 145 times I think he got it wrong.

All I'm saying is that it's one of those that you could see why he gave it - it's a tough call for a referee. He only gets one chance at it.

As for the bookings etc, it's hardly game-changing stuff.

Griffiths' shot that crossed the line, Craig Thomson's "performance" in the cup final - these are occasions when the refereeing has been dire and cost us matches.

I think we're clutching at straws going all guns blazing at the ref for yesterday.

We will get far worse than that over the course of this (and any) season. See the 2 stonewall penalties we were denied during the first half of last week's game for an example.

Taking your points

I can't see why he gave it on at least 2 counts....1) it was not a foul and 2) he could not have seen it from his positioning and as he couldn't see it he shouldn't have given it.

The bookings are game changing stuff. If a player is booked they are unlikely to commit as many fouls which allows the opposition player to win their individual "battle".

With Griffiths and Thomson we were cheated as we have been on numerous occasions. We should stand up to these officials and start to apply pressure on them.

Agree that unless we stand up for ourselves and start influencing the press by asking about decisions before games - think back to Ferguson before Aberdeen went to Glasgow.

If we do that we might not get "worse" over the season. Just because it has always happened does not mean it should continue to happen. We have to be driving this.

Salt N Sauzee
24-08-2015, 11:10 AM
Ref was average. Got a couple calls wrong in our favour and against it.

Can't blame the him for yesterday. We didn't take our chances. Simple as.

PatHead
24-08-2015, 11:10 AM
The scarcely concealed sectarianism in this thread is utterly nauseating.

Not being sectarian purely highlighting how ex-players brothers should not be allowed to referee games when they are a self proclaimed supporter.

The first person that brought it to my attention was a season ticket holding The Rangers supporter who commented last week, "That's good he is one of us. Card carrying member."

By the way he also mentioned he was the same referee who did not give Celtic a penalty in the semi final against ICT last season and he shouldn't be refereeing at this standard for that decision alone.

we are hibs
24-08-2015, 11:28 AM
He also awarded a freekick in a similar position before the handball one when Boyle clearly took the ball. I could see it and I was at the other end of the ground!

Bad Martini
24-08-2015, 11:59 AM
:agree:

There were some decisions which would have angered supporters of either side as they were borderline, but that's the nature of football refereeing. All you're really looking for is consistency and I think that he did a decent job in that regard.

The free-kick decision for the goal was poor though. At that distance, with the ball travelling at the speed and McGeouch's arm by his side, you really have to see his arm move towards the ball (after it's kicked) in order to give a foul. I think he'll be disappointed with that one when he sees it again.

Agreed. Especially the bit in bold. I thought he had a **** game and whilst favouring rangers on more occassions than us, Ithought he was a bad ref as opposed to an out and out biased ref...there is a difference. No consistency as someone pointed out too.

hibee_nation
24-08-2015, 12:04 PM
The scarcely concealed sectarianism in this thread is utterly nauseating.

Here have a sick bag.

Golden Bear
24-08-2015, 12:19 PM
I thought the ref was fine bar the free kick for the goal

:agree:

Not a perfect performance by the Ref by any means but overall he did ok.

To suggest anything else is frankly ludicrous

Betty Boop
24-08-2015, 12:23 PM
Jeez not another excuse as to why we didn't get a result. :greengrin

Sylar
24-08-2015, 12:30 PM
Not being sectarian purely highlighting how ex-players brothers should not be allowed to referee games when they are a self proclaimed supporter.

The first person that brought it to my attention was a season ticket holding The Rangers supporter who commented last week, "That's good he is one of us. Card carrying member."

By the way he also mentioned he was the same referee who did not give Celtic a penalty in the semi final against ICT last season and he shouldn't be refereeing at this standard for that decision alone.

Your posts aren't amongst those that I found pretty galling PH.

The title alone is an embarrassment.

GreenOnions
24-08-2015, 12:36 PM
I didn't think the referee was that bad.

He made the wrong call for the free-kick, no doubt about it. But we're talking about a free-kick out wide that the boy did brilliantly to score. Not a penalty, not a sending-off, not a game-changer. And you could see why, at the pace of play he might have given it - he'll have seen the ball strike the hand and then had to make a quick decision.

We lost that game because we missed our chances and a moment of inspiration for them meant they scored. We work taking our chances, we'll get better and we might have a chance.

If we keep looking to scapegoat referees or Oxley then we'll get nowhere.

I agree with this. The ref made a mistake and it obviously shouldn't have been a free kick. However, we only have ourselves to blame for the defeat as, although Rangers had more of the play - particularly in the second half, we defended well and had enough clear-cut chances to win two games.

Despite the result I'm reasonably encouraged in a lot of ways though. I thought we looked organised and we defended very effectively throughout. We played some nice football and created five or six really good chances. Our midfield has quality but has really only just been put together so will get better and better as the season progresses. A couple of our new guys tired through lack of match fitness (Henderson in particular) and that will improve also.

Golden Bear
24-08-2015, 12:41 PM
Your posts aren't amongst those that I found pretty galling PH.

The title alone is an embarrassment.



:agree:

It makes us as bad as them. I'd rather we distanced ourselves from that nonsense.

HibbySpurs
24-08-2015, 12:46 PM
Your posts aren't amongst those that I found pretty galling PH.

The title alone is an embarrassment.

Yeah I must admit I found the title pretty sad actually... Coming from Edinburgh but now living in Broxburn I find the feeling that anyone who lives in Broxburn to be Hun laughable.... Yes a large contingent but many Hibs/Hearts fans live in Broxburn/Uphall.

As for the ref, though he did OK, wasnt a free kick for the goal but could see how it was given as DM pulls his arm back.... The thought that the ref was biased never actually entered my mind until I read this thread.

Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2015, 01:05 PM
Your posts aren't amongst those that I found pretty galling PH.

The title alone is an embarrassment.

Au contraire, pointing out yet another example of partial refereeing against away teams at Ibrox (and it happens at Celtic Park) with an insouciant title is perfectly legitimate. I could have put Mr A Hun or Mr Mason Boyne to make the point, but the name is a pish take and isn't important; his being central to the result is. I thought he was terrible and that once again an away team were hard done by in Glasgow. It was a fine effort by the Hibs players (finishing aside) but we were denied at least a point by the referee, IMHO. He played his part in performing for the The Rangers fans, so Mr Sash can be him for he day.

Sylar
24-08-2015, 01:17 PM
Au contraire, pointing out yet another example of partial refereeing against away teams at Ibrox (and it happens at Celtic Park) with an insouciant title is perfectly legitimate. I could have put Mr A Hun or Mr Mason Boyne to make the point, but that isn't important; his being central to the result is. I thought he was terrible and that once again an away time were hard done by in Glasgow. It was a fine effort by the Hibs players (finishing aside) but we were denied at least a point by the referee, IMHO.

Except that's not what you're doing. At all.

You're linking a referee and his performance (perceived by you to be corrupt) to a religious institution that are commonly associated with Rangers on sectarian grounds.

I agree he didn't have the greatest of games, but to try and associate that to some orange affiliation is downright bigoted, petty and baseless.

You wouldn't dare connect any such performance at Parkhead to the Catholic Church so why is it acceptable to bring the Orange Order into his refereeing performance yesterday?

Keith_M
24-08-2015, 01:29 PM
Except that's not what you're doing. At all.

You're linking a referee and his performance (perceived by you to be corrupt) to a religious institution that are commonly associated with Rangers on sectarian grounds.

I agree he didn't have the greatest of games, but to try and associate that to some orange affiliation is downright bigoted, petty and baseless.

You wouldn't dare connect any such performance at Parkhead to the Catholic Church so why is it acceptable to bring the Orange Order into his refereeing performance yesterday?


When did the Orange Order become a religion?


EDIT: Just to clarify, I agree that there was no reason to mention the OO in the thread title, no matter how repulsive I find them.

Green&White
24-08-2015, 01:34 PM
How was their forward (waghorn maybe?) not booked for diving first half 2?? ref even gave the old 'ach get up' hand movement to him as soon as he hit the deck. was a embarrassing dive

PatHead
24-08-2015, 01:35 PM
There is nothing wrong with the orange lodge.

It is just a group of like minded individuals who like to go for a walk whilst listening to live music.

PatHead
24-08-2015, 01:37 PM
How was their forward (waghorn maybe?) not booked for diving first half 2?? ref even gave the old 'ach get up' hand movement to him as soon as he hit the deck. was a embarrassing dive

The assault on a Hibs player on the touchline right on half time was ignored as well.

It is a shame that we are so used to this behaviour that a lot of supporters accept it as the norm and say he didn't have too bad a game.

Sylar
24-08-2015, 01:39 PM
When did the Orange Order become a religion?

I think you'll find i said "religious institution", rather than "a religion".

Keith_M
24-08-2015, 01:40 PM
I think you'll find i said "religious institution", rather than "a religion".


You then made a direct comparison to the Roman Catholic Church.

Sylar
24-08-2015, 01:43 PM
You then made a direct comparison to the Roman Catholic Church.

Because they're the religious institution that are most commonly (rightly or wrongly) associated with Celtic...?

Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2015, 01:49 PM
Except that's not what you're doing. At all.

You're linking a referee and his performance (perceived by you to be corrupt) to a religious institution that are commonly associated with Rangers on sectarian grounds.

I agree he didn't have the greatest of games, but to try and associate that to some orange affiliation is downright bigoted, petty and baseless.

You wouldn't dare connect any such performance at Parkhead to the Catholic Church so why is it acceptable to bring the Orange Order into his refereeing performance yesterday?

Answered above. Highlighting the partiality of his display isn't at all "bigoted, petty and baseless". Yet again a referee was a 'homer' at Ibrox, and as The Sash is a favourite ditty of their support, and as he was their latest referee come mascot for the day, he's earned his title. Aligning the referee with the Rangers support, due to his performance, isn't the same thing as participating in theirbigoted behaviour. Had the referee done exactly the same thing at Parkhead, I would certainly have associated him with their support: perhaps Mr A Tim or Mr A Provo.

I take your point, really, but don't mistake taking the pish out of the guy (by aligning him with Rangers because of performance) for any kind of bigotry. It mightn't be to your taste, fair enough, but in no way is it bigoted. He made the bigots very happy yesterday, which was the point of calling him Mr Sash. I'm in no way mocking his religious beliefs, should he hold any. I could have said Mr UDA, but I wouldn't be seriously suggesting he's a Loyalist paramilitary; merely he endeared himself to the home support who are known to have a liking for such people.

Kato
24-08-2015, 01:58 PM
It is a shame that we are so used to this behaviour that a lot of supporters accept it as the norm and say he didn't have too bad a game.


This. Particularly when it comes to how bookings are given/not given.

Future17
24-08-2015, 02:29 PM
The assault on a Hibs player on the touchline right on half time was ignored as well.

It is a shame that we are so used to this behaviour that a lot of supporters accept it as the norm and say he didn't have too bad a game.

I think, from sitting in the stand at ER or even watching games in the pub, some supporters can be extremely biased towards their own team when evaluating a refereeing performance. The allegations that Waghorn "dived" and that Henderson was "assaulted" would be totally reversed by some supporters had those players been wearing different jerseys.

I understand that it can be hard to be objective when you're emotionally connected to the play, but some of the claims you hear from fans are ridiculous and the hyperbole (also in use on this thread) can make these claims pretty cringeworthy.

Eyrie
24-08-2015, 06:11 PM
There is a need to be objective and consider how you would react to the decision had the jerseys been the other way round.

Equally there is a need for the referee to be consistent, and he clearly wasn't because twice during the first half Halliday fouled a Hibs player to prevent us breaking, yet McGinn was booked when he did the same thing just once.

PatHead
24-08-2015, 06:17 PM
I would expect the referee to book our players when they committed bookable fouls or dived. I would expect them to be treated the same way.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It doesn't happen.

Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2015, 06:35 PM
I would expect the referee to book our players when they committed bookable fouls or dived. I would expect them to be treated the same way.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It doesn't happen.

Aye, that's just the way it goes for all visiting teams at Ibrox/Parkhead and it will probably never change. We're just not going to get marginal decisions or tight calls in the majority of cases. The ridiculous handball call for the goal wouldn't have been given at the other end.

bawheid
24-08-2015, 06:35 PM
Not being sectarian purely highlighting how ex-players brothers should not be allowed to referee games when they are a self proclaimed supporter.

The first person that brought it to my attention was a season ticket holding The Rangers supporter who commented last week, "That's good he is one of us. Card carrying member."

By the way he also mentioned he was the same referee who did not give Celtic a penalty in the semi final against ICT last season and he shouldn't be refereeing at this standard for that decision alone.

lol. You shouldn't allow yourself to be wound up by Sevconians. Just to confirm, Steven McLean is not a Rangers fan...

Future17
25-08-2015, 07:08 AM
There is a need to be objective and consider how you would react to the decision had the jerseys been the other way round.

Equally there is a need for the referee to be consistent, and he clearly wasn't because twice during the first half Halliday fouled a Hibs player to prevent us breaking, yet McGinn was booked when he did the same thing just once.

Rangers weren't breaking when McGinn committed the foul he was booked for; Law was travelling across the pitch, not towards goal. I think the ref probably gave a yellow for that as it was effectively a tackle from behind.

Again, it's a borderline decision, but there was no need for McGinn to be sliding in there and he badly mistimed it.

JimBHibees
25-08-2015, 08:13 AM
Rangers weren't breaking when McGinn committed the foul he was booked for; Law was travelling across the pitch, not towards goal. I think the ref probably gave a yellow for that as it was effectively a tackle from behind.

Again, it's a borderline decision, but there was no need for McGinn to be sliding in there and he badly mistimed it.

Agree with that.

calmac12000
25-08-2015, 01:42 PM
I think you'll find i said "religious institution", rather than "a religion".
I would say there are significant differences between most mainstream established religions and the Loyal Orange Order. It is worrying in this day and age that any intelligent adult would be unaware of this or claim to. be.
At any rate as this is a football forum and not a forum for religious debate,Iwill leave the matter ther,

Hibernia&Alba
25-08-2015, 01:51 PM
I would say there are significant differences between most mainstream established religions and the Loyal Orange Order. It is worrying in this day and age that any intelligent adult would be unaware of this or claim to. be.
At any rate as this is a football forum and not a forum for religious debate,Iwill leave the matter ther,

Indeed. Lightheartedly associating the ref with Rangers fans because of poor decisions (IMHO) at Ibrox is in no way bigoted. Indeed it's a jib at their bigotry. Anyway, I still say we were shortchanged there yet again and should have come away with a draw; a win, if we'd been able to finish.

GreenLake
25-08-2015, 02:27 PM
Refs at times make it like we are playing into a headwind and the other team has it behind them. It's subtle but apparent.

There is a difference between poor refereeing and biased refereeing. Biased refereeing does not have to be blatant and calling teams for fouls ever so slightly differently after change of play situations can have a big influence on the outcome of matches. It directs control on the momentum of play. It's subtle but effective.

Some teams seem to get a lift from the ref and other teams get a hindering.

EUFA should do a study of Scottish matches and perhaps appoint foreign refs for a season or two.

Even bad refs are better than biased refs.