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underscore
20-08-2015, 11:15 AM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

Gatecrasher
20-08-2015, 11:17 AM
I Don't know about the worst but some could definitely do with a chill pill from time to time, some of the over reactions to trivial things are a bit bewildering.

superfurryhibby
20-08-2015, 11:18 AM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

You could rephrase it and ask if we are the most tolerant fans in Scotland?

Watching the ***** that has passed for football this past seven or eight years, the poor management of the club and the ignomy of relegation. Pretty sure it would generate as many moans from any other club of our stature.

In a word, NO.

hibbeedavid
20-08-2015, 11:19 AM
I think if other clubs had endured the last decade we have from having one of the most exciting young squads in the country to trying to scrape out of the second tier at second attempt they would complain just as much! Likewise if we'd won 2 Scottish Cups and had quite a few European ties and then won the second tier at a canter we'd be a lot less critical of things too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Greencore
20-08-2015, 11:24 AM
Yes.

Jim44
20-08-2015, 11:25 AM
You could rephrase it and ask if we are the most tolerant fans in Scotland?

Watching the ***** that has passed for football this past seven or eight years, the poor management of the club and the ignomy of relegation. Pretty sure it would generate as many moans from any other club of our stature.

In a word, NO.

Took the words out of my mouth. Considering we think of ourselves as one of the bigger clubs in Scotland, we've certainly had more to moan about than most. I'm surprised you have raised the subject and given us something else to moan about. :-)

Bad Martini
20-08-2015, 11:25 AM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

Dodging the question completely and taking a look at the sheer irony here, you posted a negative thread about the fans negativity to complain about negativity :aok::confused::greengrin

And to answer the question, sometimes. Often when **** hits the fan. Fans are fickle. Mostly all for the same cause, save for a few crackpots who are a definite minority, love to moan about absolutely EVERYTHING in life and clearly dont get any :greengrin

GGTTH

Torto7062
20-08-2015, 11:25 AM
I Don't know about the worst but some could definitely do with a chill pill from time to time, some of the over reactions to trivial things are a bit bewildering.

Totally agree..even when Stubbsy renewed his contract folk were saying "what now why not wait to see if we get promoted "

I thought ffs we were always going to be down at least one if not two years,Houdini could nae run Hibs any better now....the past is the past for God's sake look forwards whether we play like Barca or play like Dulkla Pumpherston always support the team

Andy74
20-08-2015, 11:28 AM
I think if other clubs had endured the last decade we have from having one of the most exciting young squads in the country to trying to scrape out of the second tier at second attempt they would complain just as much! Likewise if we'd won 2 Scottish Cups and had quite a few European ties and then won the second tier at a canter we'd be a lot less critical of things too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's relevant of course but the negativity started before we got to where we are now and probably contributed to it.

There's been a few managers who maybe could have done with a bit more time or backing but it was deemed not good enough or progress wasn't quick enopugh, or the football wasn't good enough. In isolation those were often valid concerns but the upshot is, we got change and none of the change we have had has taken us forward.

J-C
20-08-2015, 11:29 AM
With years of disappointment and generally being shafted from pillar to post, negativity is the norm for us as fans and it's very hard to be positive all the time, we are always waiting for the next kick in the teeth at every corner.

Scouse Hibee
20-08-2015, 11:31 AM
Expectation beyond realism is the problem.

oneone73
20-08-2015, 11:35 AM
Expectation beyond realism is the problem.

Nonsense.It's the hope that kills us.

Scouse Hibee
20-08-2015, 11:38 AM
Maybe harder for some to admit than others.

keep the faith
20-08-2015, 11:45 AM
Yes

Purehibee_MYB
20-08-2015, 11:46 AM
Is this thread negative about being negative? Is it a self-perpetuating cycle? There must be a word for it :cb

JimBHibees
20-08-2015, 11:47 AM
Is this thread negative about being negative? Is it a self-perpetuating cycle? There must be a word for it :cb

Negativity. :greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
20-08-2015, 11:48 AM
No more than any other club.

FranckSuzy
20-08-2015, 11:49 AM
You could rephrase it and ask if we are the most tolerant fans in Scotland?

Watching the ***** that has passed for football this past seven or eight years, the poor management of the club and the ignomy of relegation. Pretty sure it would generate as many moans from any other club of our stature.

In a word, NO.

:agree: Factor in paying top dollar for the second season in a row also and I would say we're pretty tolerant really :greengrin

One thing that does do my nut in though is as soon as we get a half-decent player/manager, some posters start speculating how long it'll be before they leave :rolleyes:

Mango Man
20-08-2015, 11:50 AM
It's not just the last 8 years we have underachieved, look through our history, the whole Scottish Cup jinx, one of the worst Derby records ever, the only thing that keeps us going is that we had the Famous 5 and the Tornadoes. Judas had a good team to watch and Mogga too, apart from that I'm struggling to think of the positives.

So the answer to your question is yes and with very good reason.

GreenArmyyy!
20-08-2015, 11:51 AM
Yes.

J-C
20-08-2015, 11:56 AM
Expectation beyond realism is the problem.


For many of us who grew up watching the Tornadoes, regularly splitting the old firm during that time and European football almost every year, to what's happened to the club since the 80's, almost being taken over and finally after the last 6-7 years being relegated again, our expectation has to be higher to what it is. We are a proud old club with many years of tradition and history and being stuck down here while the cheats from PBS and Greyskull prosper is galling, we should be a steady top 6 club with European football our aim, not messing around down here trying to scrape wins against Dumbarton and the like.

Shrekko
20-08-2015, 11:59 AM
It's hard to say exactly where we rank but the support is very negative IMO. Most games you're more aware of cat-calls and abuse than people being supportive. Too many stories from opposition players/managers suggesting that the ER crowd turn quickly on the players. I've never understood where the sense of entitlement comes from- we've more often than not been rubbish for as long as I can remember. I realise that plays a part in the frustration but abusing players doesnt help the cause either.

Not sure I buy the 'every clubs the same' either as having been to other teams games it quite often feels completely different.

superfurryhibby
20-08-2015, 12:03 PM
Took the words out of my mouth. Considering we think of ourselves as one of the bigger clubs in Scotland, we've certainly had more to moan about than most. I'm surprised you have raised the subject and given us something else to moan about. :-)

Ayes, but I never posed the question, I merely offered my opinion😜

In terms of expectation, I reckon most folk have realistic and proportionate ones. For me it's a top six finish, the occasional cup final, with victory and good management of our resources. We have the facilities and infrastructure, what we need is a team that does justice to the name Hibernian and the loyal fans who've had their patience stretched to the limits. Is that of much to ask?

GreenCastle
20-08-2015, 12:09 PM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

No - I would say we are some of the most loyal.

It angers me when people believe the fans are part of the issue.

It's anything but....the fans have been very loyal over the years and still continue to buy over priced ST's and strips / shares etc.

The issue with this club and many still can't see it....was the way it is / was run - several decisions at board level by RP and STF and lack of investment with some horrendous managerial appointments = the mess we currently find ourselves in. The constant in this mess is RP and the lack of direction from the top.

The question could be - Are Hibs fans the most accepting / deluded in Scotland (after what we have had to put up with)

davidw
20-08-2015, 12:10 PM
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Not negative at all.

Lago
20-08-2015, 12:13 PM
I'll answer after the rangers game, it could prove interesting.

Smartie
20-08-2015, 12:14 PM
I sometimes wonder if there is a bit of chicken and egg about it.

Are we negative because of the rubbish we've been subjected to by the team/club?

Or do the team struggle as a result of the never-ending negativity that seems to rain down on them?

I had hoped that last season would have broken the cycle, having a decent team playing the right way helps. We fell short last season but the ovation at the end of the ER playoff suggested that the fans were behind the club again.


Being at the Dumbarton game felt like a step back in time, fans being at each other's throats due to the Scott Allan saga.

Hopefully with that situation now having been resolved we can move on again. A cheeky wee result on Sunday would go a long way to fixing things.

Onion
20-08-2015, 12:15 PM
Moaning benchmark for fans is set by the club's performance v expectations (especially in big game) and its record v local rivals. Over the last 30 years, Hibs have come up well short on both, so little wonder we feel hard done by.

Took some English pals along to a regular Hibs game at ER and they had not come across a more negative crowd. I've also been to a few Champ grounds down south and was amazed at how upbeat the fans were, even when the football and game was crap. Our weather and the Tory government doesn't help 😊

Steve20
20-08-2015, 12:16 PM
Only because Hibs have been the most negative club in Scotland for years (and I'm not talking about style of play). For a club our size, we've produced the most embarrassing results (2012 cup final, playing for damage limitation the next final, 0-9 Malmo, the Hamilton playoff fiasco).

Negative on forums? Yeah. But it's a miracle even 8,000 still turn up considering the results we've had and still are having.

It's also a nonsense to suggest people being negative has caused some of the nightmare performances. At games, our supporters are no worse than anyone else. People just like to blame the support (last people who should be blamed) for how low we've sunk, when it's the people running our club and those on the pitch who are.

Thecat23
20-08-2015, 12:17 PM
No - I would say we are some of the most loyal.

It angers me when people believe the fans are part of the issue.

It's anything but....the fans have been very loyal over the years and still continue to buy over priced ST's and strips / shares etc.

The issue with this club and many still can't see it....was the way it is / was run - several decisions at board level by RP and STF and lack of investment with some horrendous managerial appointments = the mess we currently find ourselves in. The constant in this mess is RP and the lack of direction from the top.

The question could be - Are Hibs fans the most accepting / deluded in Scotland (after what we have had to put up with)

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Gordy M
20-08-2015, 12:18 PM
Much as we have put up with a lot in previous years, i still think some fans use that as an excuse to be negative and critisize...the comeback being well look at the last 8 years iv every right to moan, its almost like the club arent alliwed to move on. A poster earlier mentioned getting to the odd cup final, well we got to two, two years running and because of results then they are also used as an excuse to moan or be negative. Ive said this before, easy to be negative, because youre either proved right...or hibs are winning or doing something right. All imo of course!

Jim44
20-08-2015, 12:19 PM
Ayes, but I never posed the question, I merely offered my opinion😜

In terms of expectation, I reckon most folk have realistic and proportionate ones. For me it's a top six finish, the occasional cup final, with victory and good management of our resources. We have the facilities and infrastructure, what we need is a team that does justice to the name Hibernian and the loyal fans who've had their patience stretched to the limits. Is that of much to ask?

Sorry, SFH. My question was aimed at the OP and phrased badly.

PeeJay
20-08-2015, 12:19 PM
I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

Not sure people are revelling. At the end of the day, the football on show is what matters. Maybe if we were in the top league and close to winning it or - dare I say it - winning it, if we were constantly challenging for European trophies, taking home the SC/LC every other year, beating our neighbours convincingly more often than not and so on - you know being successful at football, if people were still complaining at the level they do,then you may have a point for asking this question, but - I mean look at the club and its recent record - is it really any wonder that people complain? There are justified reasons for the complaints: it's quite a long list actually ....

Onion
20-08-2015, 12:20 PM
For many of us who grew up watching the Tornadoes, regularly splitting the old firm during that time and European football almost every year, to what's happened to the club since the 80's, almost being taken over and finally after the last 6-7 years being relegated again, our expectation has to be higher to what it is. We are a proud old club with many years of tradition and history and being stuck down here while the cheats from PBS and Greyskull prosper is galling, we should be a steady top 6 club with European football our aim, not messing around down here trying to scrape wins against Dumbarton and the like.

That problem will fix itself in time, when all TT veterans pass on. Then there will be much smaller crowds at ER will much lower expectations. The atmosphere will be brilliant, and the beleaguered Hibs Board and owner won't have to put up with the constant moaning from its customers 😉

Smartie
20-08-2015, 12:22 PM
No - I would say we are some of the most loyal.

It angers me when people believe the fans are part of the issue.

It's anything but....the fans have been very loyal over the years and still continue to buy over priced ST's and strips / shares etc.

The issue with this club and many still can't see it....was the way it is / was run - several decisions at board level by RP and STF and lack of investment with some horrendous managerial appointments = the mess we currently find ourselves in. The constant in this mess is RP and the lack of direction from the top.

The question could be - Are Hibs fans the most accepting / deluded in Scotland (after what we have had to put up with)

I think that this has a bit to do with it as well. The club heap pressure on themselves by charging way over the odds for what is on offer.

I know they have their reasons - they tell us often enough - but when the results on the park fall so far short of what we are being asked to fund then it's no surprise that some choose to vent their frustrations.

Onion
20-08-2015, 12:27 PM
Much as we have put up with a lot in previous years, i still think some fans use that as an excuse to be negative and critisize...the comeback being well look at the last 8 years iv every right to moan, its almost like the club arent alliwed to move on. A poster earlier mentioned getting to the odd cup final, well we got to two, two years running and because of results then they are also used as an excuse to moan or be negative. Ive said this before, easy to be negative, because youre either proved right...or hibs are winning or doing something right. All imo of course!

You're really trying to use the last two cup final thrashings as a reason to be happy, one by our oldest, bitter rivals ? Think that just fans the flames 😕

Shrekko
20-08-2015, 12:27 PM
For many of us who grew up watching the Tornadoes, regularly splitting the old firm during that time and European football almost every year, to what's happened to the club since the 80's, almost being taken over and finally after the last 6-7 years being relegated again, our expectation has to be higher to what it is. We are a proud old club with many years of tradition and history and being stuck down here while the cheats from PBS and Greyskull prosper is galling, we should be a steady top 6 club with European football our aim, not messing around down here trying to scrape wins against Dumbarton and the like.

Are you not effectively saying though that we've been fairly rubbish consistently for 35 years? Eddie Turnbull's record for league finishes was actually 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 6th,4th, 5th, and 10th, so it's maybe more like 40 years! This is seen as being our 2nd greatest era in history and folk talk like the Tornadoes were unbeatable.

Dont get me wrong- we probably have under-achieved simply due to the size of the club, but I don't get the theory that Hibs fans are entitled to expect better because of past standards.

hhibs
20-08-2015, 12:27 PM
You could rephrase it and ask if we are the most tolerant fans in Scotland?

Watching the ***** that has passed for football this past seven or eight years, the poor management of the club and the ignomy of relegation. Pretty sure it would generate as many moans from any other club of our stature.

In a word, NO.

Agreed!

Hibby 2005
20-08-2015, 12:37 PM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

In recent years we've turned up in numbers when it matters only to be let down time and again which may account for the disaffected among the support.

Rod Petrie hasn't helped matters either.

A consistent winning team that doesn't bottle the big occasions would make everyone happy.

underscore
20-08-2015, 12:43 PM
You're really trying to use the last two cup final thrashings as a reason to be happy, one by our oldest, bitter rivals ? Think that just fans the flames 

So is it better not to get there?? This is kind of my point - no one like losing. But surely 2nd place is better than last place?

Bostonhibby
20-08-2015, 12:43 PM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....

Nope. I have a good friend who is a St. Mirren fan and if ever I need reminded how good life as a Hibby is I only have to talk to him.

The last seven or eight years have been the ones that have got me the most exasperated with Hibs but the reason I and a couple like me keep coming back / will never go away is that we always know there will be better times round the corner - We are optimists and maybe realists - the corner might be 10 years or more in the turning but we are Hibbies because of where we were born, our family ties, the feeling we have developed for the club and what it stands for over the years.

There's nothing wrong with some forms of negativity, or not being an outright happy clapper regardless of how we are doing - I am all for all forms of attacks on those who do our club no good or over time are simply not up to the job especially if it brings about change for the better. Being negative about individual performances / games is always going to happen as an expression of disappointment of failure to live up to expectations, it should be short term if you really do support the club and progress is being made.

Separating the institution I love from the non performers who have custody of it from time to time is how I reconcile it - failure to improve & entertain is what usually results in less than positive comments about those responsible for it.

AndyM_1875
20-08-2015, 12:44 PM
I know they have their reasons - they tell us often enough - but when the results on the park fall so far short of what we are being asked to fund then it's no surprise that some choose to vent their frustrations.

Certainly agree with your point regarding results. I think it's nothing short of miraculous that Hibs still get 8000+ through the gate given the slaps in the face the fans have taken. When you add up two spineless cup final displays, a European humiliation and worst of all, a completely avoidable relegation where we find ourselves playing part time sides on crap pitches and losing. The support have shown incredible resilience. The support has a right to be irritated and angry at where Hibs find themselves especially given the infrastructure investment the club has made in recent years to the detriment of the team.

For me the biggest danger Hibs face is the fans apathy. People have lots of choice as to how they spend their money at weekends.
A fan reacting angrily to a bad result will always return.
A fan that shrugs their shoulders and says quietly and rationally "You know what... I can't be bothered doing this. It's not enjoyable any more, I can spend my time and money doing other things" is going to be the hardest of all to get back to Easter Road and there are hundreds if not thousands of folk that feel like that in Edinburgh who once used to go to Easter Road.

Bostonhibby
20-08-2015, 12:46 PM
You could rephrase it and ask if we are the most tolerant fans in Scotland?

Watching the ***** that has passed for football this past seven or eight years, the poor management of the club and the ignomy of relegation. Pretty sure it would generate as many moans from any other club of our stature.

In a word, NO.

Right on the money - add this to what I said above.

B.H.F.C
20-08-2015, 12:48 PM
So is it better not to get there?? This is kind of my point - no one like losing. But surely 2nd place is better than last place?

In 2012 would I'd have much rather lost to the sheep in the semi final than get to the final and endure what happened.

Hiber-nation
20-08-2015, 12:56 PM
100% no.

Gordy M
20-08-2015, 12:58 PM
You're really trying to use the last two cup final thrashings as a reason to be happy, one by our oldest, bitter rivals ? Think that just fans the flames 😕

Where did i say fans should be happy? Il ask you, would you be happy if we got to a final this year? Would that be seen as success? In hindsight the worst thing that happened was getting to the two finals and europe. Fans would be less negative than they are if we had been knocked out in the semis. Which is at odds with what u want as a supporter. I was replying to someone who stated that getting to a final is success, when us getting to two in a row is quite clearly not and is used as a reason to critisize the club.

Ozyhibby
20-08-2015, 01:24 PM
Much as we have put up with a lot in previous years, i still think some fans use that as an excuse to be negative and critisize...the comeback being well look at the last 8 years iv every right to moan, its almost like the club arent alliwed to move on. A poster earlier mentioned getting to the odd cup final, well we got to two, two years running and because of results then they are also used as an excuse to moan or be negative. Ive said this before, easy to be negative, because youre either proved right...or hibs are winning or doing something right. All imo of course!

The club can move on when they turn the corner result wise. While we are in the 2nd div the only people who have moved on are the 4000+ missing fans from a few years back.

Thecat23
20-08-2015, 01:25 PM
So is it better not to get there?? This is kind of my point - no one like losing. But surely 2nd place is better than last place?

Finishing second is no different from going out first round. You have failed to win it simple as that! A winners mentality shows second as complete failure. We should stop excepting failure on and off the park try to move on as one but learn from what has happened because this club has been a shambles for too long and I'm sick of it.

Doesn't mean I don't think we can't become a success again but I will not be fully happy until we are back in the prem competing for European football. None of this Dumbarton crap! Get out this ****ty league, build a team that's good to watch and you will see a real change in attitude towards our club.

HUTCHYHIBBY
20-08-2015, 01:27 PM
We just need a little patience, I'm sure thats what we were told a few years ago. :-)

lord bunberry
20-08-2015, 01:32 PM
Of course we're not. What we do have is a section of our support who can't wait to have. A dig at fellow supporters with threads like this and comments like 'we get the team we deserve ' if we got the team we deserve we wouldn't be languishing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. Hibs fans are amongst the most loyal fans in the country and **** threads like this are insulting.

Bostonhibby
20-08-2015, 01:33 PM
We just need a little patience, I'm sure thats what we were told a few years ago. :-)

Decades, wasn't it?::wink:

Gordy M
20-08-2015, 01:33 PM
The club can move on when they turn the corner result wise. While we are in the 2nd div the only people who have moved on are the 4000+ missing fans from a few years back.

No i totally accept that, but you have got to admit the negativity on here is almost constant, i genuinely think that a lot of the fans have given up winning the league already? And i know what they will say.....after the last 8 years what do u expect?? Yeh the team need to produce the results but they certainly wont do that if they have given up the league like some of the fans (on here) have.

flash
20-08-2015, 01:36 PM
Maybe on here at times but certainly not during matches.

Gordy M
20-08-2015, 01:40 PM
Of course we're not. What we do have is a section of our support who can't wait to have. A dig at fellow supporters with threads like this and comments like 'we get the team we deserve ' if we got the team we deserve we wouldn't be languishing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. Hibs fans are amongst the most loyal fans in the country and **** threads like this are insulting.
Whats insulting is fans coming on here and having a go at hibs at every opportunity. I work in central scotland and have to put up with every old firm and ***** fan having a go, i come on here to read about my club and for some positive news and all i read is the same **** ive heard from work colleagues! An all round more positive atmosphere cannot do any harm for us all. For the record the fans at the games are a lot more supportive and im not talking about them, mainly on here!

lord bunberry
20-08-2015, 01:42 PM
Whats insulting is fans coming on here and having a go at hibs at every opportunity. I work in central scotland and have to put up with every old firm and ***** fan having a go, i come on here to read about my club and for some positive news and all i read is the same **** ive heard from work colleagues! An all round more positive atmosphere cannot do any harm for us all. For the record the fans at the games are a lot more supportive and im not talking about them, mainly on here!
You're talking about a small number of posters being negative, that doesn't make us the most negative fans in the country. To suggest so is an insult IMO.

underscore
20-08-2015, 01:43 PM
Of course we're not. What we do have is a section of our support who can't wait to have. A dig at fellow supporters with threads like this and comments like 'we get the team we deserve ' if we got the team we deserve we wouldn't be languishing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. Hibs fans are amongst the most loyal fans in the country and **** threads like this are insulting.

Are they insulting? I don't think there is a thread on the board that even when providing positive news is peppered with "why bother" "we're p1sh" type comments. I sit in the stand at every game and even when we are holding the ball, passing it all the over park, all I hear is "this is p!sh stubbs" "Call this entertainment". Half the people just seem to go to have a bloody moan. Its a negative atmosphere. I don't get why people want to put themselves through that - both on here and at the games, and I'm wondering if we just attract that type of personality?

Keith_M
20-08-2015, 01:49 PM
Hard to tell if we're the worst but we do like a good moan

:greengrin

Gordy M
20-08-2015, 01:50 PM
You're talking about a small number of posters being negative, that doesn't make us the most negative fans in the country. To suggest so is an insult IMO.

Fair enough, i didnt say that we are the most negative support, my posts were that we could be a lot more positive. Folk have every right to express their opinions but some of the stuff that the club have been critisized for is just ridiculous....and draining to read. Thats all i was saying.

TheFamous1875
20-08-2015, 01:52 PM
Expectation beyond realism is the problem.


I would say it's more of a case of fans' standards being much higher than the standards of those who've been in charge of our club for quite some time...Hibernian football club, like any club or business or anything, starts from the beginning - we've had great teams over the years; we've won cups, had great players, achieved famous victories against Barcelona and Real Madrid and other great European sides - we have a good history behind us in that regard, and while history is exactly that, part of why Hibs' fans expectations are never met is because we have for too long not done the minimum expected of any club or business, which is to make sure your product is always of the standard it was when the customer first bought it - or else they won't be coming back.


If a popular, ambitious and successful restaurant loses it's head chef to a bigger restaurant, do they throw away the menu? No, they invest in a new chef and keep their standards up because their business and their reputation and their livelihoods depend on it. It's the same with a football club in some regard; people's fathers and grandfathers etc were there to see Turnbull's Tornadoes, The Famous five, Joe Baker, Willie Hamilton, John Collins, Steve Archibald, Leigh, Sauzee & Latapy - whichever players grabbed their imaginations and made them decide that this was the club for them from a young age and most of these people don't return now because the joy that pulled them in through the terraces has been replaced by years of abject failure instead. People can only take too much disappointment in their lives, and, to the perseverance of the Hibs' faithful, it's a miracle we even get 8,500 a week.


The problem is that there's such a wide gap between the club that the fans know in their hearts and in their memories or have been told about by those who got them into the club in the first place and the reality of where the club has been taken. There is no correlation between the fans' love of the club and the complacent approach to business that the club has done for the last 35/40 years.


So in my opinion it is not that the general majority of Hibs fans have unrealistic expectations, it's more that the very basics of what made Hibs what they are, in this climate or the one of yesteryear, have for too long not been met by those in charge of the club. I believe that Leann Dempster and George Craig are beginning to make the best of the potential that we have here and in the next few years we will start to see the benefits of their approach to managing our club.


As an aside, here are my expectations of Hibernian football club:


- build a squad that is the correct blend of talent, hard-work, athleticism, determination, dedication, teamwork, leadership and bravery


- be tactically astute: know when to make a sub, when to pick a certain player in the squad or when they need dropped, what formation to use, what approach to win the game against the opposition is needed. Case in point: we pass the ball around the final third in a pedestrian manner like they do in Spain and struggle to break down part-time opposition, which Hearts blew away consistently last year with pace and strength alongside footballing ability. They (unfortunately) showed the exact science of how to win the Scottish Championship.


- be financially astute and spend wisely: when to invest (Griffiths) and when not to invest (James Collins).


- give youth their chance, but not to the detriment of the team: if they're good enough, they'll get in ahead of someone whose been brought in who was already deemed good enough.


-be fair, be honest and always work within the community and do everything they can to help people in the community and to get people into the gates through a advertising, schemes, initiatives, etc.


If we do all these things, success will prevail. A good team on the park who have those attributes at any level will be successful and will breed success off the park. Success off the park should mean success on the park at all times, both always in a perfect balance.


It'll take many years for the club to get back to where it belongs in the hearts of the fans after such long indented disappointment and apathy, but it is possible, and I'll be there for the long haul.

lord bunberry
20-08-2015, 01:55 PM
Are they insulting? I don't think there is a thread on the board that even when providing positive news is peppered with "why bother" "we're p1sh" type comments. I sit in the stand at every game and even when we are holding the ball, passing it all the over park, all I hear is "this is p!sh stubbs" "Call this entertainment". Half the people just seem to go to have a bloody moan. Its a negative atmosphere. I don't get why people want to put themselves through that - both on here and at the games, and I'm wondering if we just attract that type of personality?
That's no different from any other fans though. If we're doing well the support is more positive and right now we're in the second tier and in some people's eyes(not mine) facing the prospect of 3 seasons down here. If we win on Sunday and go on a bit of a run then the positivity will return.

GreenArmyyy!
20-08-2015, 01:56 PM
Yes we are but we have good reason to be, I am going to be negative here, I am 22 and overall I have have a truly miserable life supporting Hibs, blips aside. On the other hand I will never stop going to watch my team and hoping that just maybe one day we will get a bit of glory for ourselves. Although I hate the negativity around the club I do not blame anybody for feeling that way.

lord bunberry
20-08-2015, 01:56 PM
Fair enough, i didnt say that we are the most negative support, my posts were that we could be a lot more positive. Folk have every right to express their opinions but some of the stuff that the club have been critisized for is just ridiculous....and draining to read. Thats all i was saying.
I agree with that, my comments were directed at the op regarding us being the most negative.

underscore
20-08-2015, 02:01 PM
I agree with that, my comments were directed at the op regarding us being the most negative.

and I wasn't saying we were.....I was asking Are we? Also I do wonder if we attract some doom? There are a few near me who would go to a circus and slag off the Clown's make up.

Keith_M
20-08-2015, 02:04 PM
Someone mentioned that there are certain posters that come one here purely to criticize. I think the negativity they spread is effective way beyond their actual numbers, so it possibly seems they are more numerous than they actually are.

Be honest, they are certain people that many of us have now taken for granted as either posting negativity with each post or just can't wait for something to go wrong so they can drag up their grievances.

Before I even read though this, I tried to predict a couple of names that I'd see who would post something negative in reply and I've seen one of them already.

Keith_M
20-08-2015, 02:05 PM
and I wasn't saying we were.....I was asking Are we? Also I do wonder if we attract some doom? There are a few near me who would go to a circus and slag off the Clown's make up.


I've never liked Clowns






:wink:

Mango Man
20-08-2015, 02:28 PM
The thing is the negatives outweigh the positives by some distance in Hibs history, to be positive we need something tangible to cling on to, Stubbs and co are doing a good job so far but just can't help feeling it's all gonna go pear shaped at any moment, we are a very fragile club and supporting Hibs has really dampened my own personal enthusiasm for football in general.

matty_f
20-08-2015, 02:55 PM
Perspective is key - we, as a support, are not overtly negative IMHO. In fact, I think there's a lot of optimism and support. You get the odd loudmouth at games that will have a go relentlessly, but for every one of them there are several hundred/thousand who get behind the team.

On hibs.net, there are a handful of posters who post almost relentlessly negative posts, but again they're in the minority. There are others that give honest opinions on negative events - when we get pumped by Dumbarton, complaining about it isn't negative - it's a natural reaction, and you'll often find these posters reacting very positively to positive news.

We are probably not unlike any other support, to be honest. Except for the yams, who are freaks.

Ozyhibby
20-08-2015, 05:32 PM
All negativity will go away when the team start to perform to the clubs potential. We have a wage budget in the top 5 in the country but we are languishing in the 2nd div for a 2nd season.
None of the board see that as a resigning issue so they must think that it is acceptable.
Hard to put a positive spin on that although many try.

green day
20-08-2015, 05:35 PM
All negativity will go away when the team start to perform to the clubs potential. We have a wage budget in the top 5 in the country but we are languishing in the 2nd div for a 2nd season.
None of the board see that as a resigning issue so they must think that it is acceptable.
Hard to put a positive spin on that although many try.

They might think that en masse resignation of a board might put the entire club in jeopardy.

But don't worry, you just carry on with your relentless positivity........

chinaman
20-08-2015, 05:38 PM
Ayes, but I never posed the question, I merely offered my opinion😜

In terms of expectation, I reckon most folk have realistic and proportionate ones. For me it's a top six finish, the occasional cup final, with victory and good management of our resources. We have the facilities and infrastructure, what we need is a team that does justice to the name Hibernian and the loyal pfans who've had their patience stretched to the limits. Is that of much to ask?
Good post furry !

Iain G
20-08-2015, 05:47 PM
All negativity will go away when the team start to perform to the clubs potential. We have a wage budget in the top 5 in the country but we are languishing in the 2nd div for a 2nd season.
None of the board see that as a resigning issue so they must think that it is acceptable.
Hard to put a positive spin on that although many try.

For most of my life Hibs have never performed consistantly to our mythical potential, we are where we are for a whole bunch of reasons that have been done to death. We deserve to be where we are just now. The club have changed hugely in the last year, maybe not as much as we would all like as we still have to get over the soft touch that we have had for far too long for example but there are positives there and there is a will of people to see those positives and support the changes.

Its far too easy to criticise Hibs and they have been their own worst enemy in making it so easy, but there are positive sogns there and we should pull together as club and support to get this bloody football club up to the upper levels of Scottuah football again.

Criticism qnd cynicism is the easy way, taking a leap of faith again after seasons of being burnt is a lil bit harder but will be worth it on the end.

Ozyhibby
20-08-2015, 05:51 PM
They might think that en masse resignation of a board might put the entire club in jeopardy.

But don't worry, you just carry on with your relentless positivity........

As opposed to them staying and us flourishing? We've lost about 30% of our fans on their watch. If they keep that up, then our club really will be in jeopardy.

Hibernia&Alba
20-08-2015, 06:05 PM
The answer is no, we are not the most negative by any stretch. We averaged over ten thousand last season; just think of doing that, after the miseries we've endured in recent years. At many clubs the fans would have staged a revolt and caused chaos, but we've taken it all with great patience and largely in silence. As for negative posters, they're an inevitable consequence of the club's downward trajectory during the past decade. Some people are by nature more pessimistic than others, but Hibs could test the patience of a saint. Of course some people are just never happy, but the vast majority of critical posters on .net are reasonable people who have become disillusioned IMO; and the fact they post shows they still care about the club. Better that than indifference.

Somehow we need to remain optimistic that the good times will return. It's when fans lose hope that they walk way.

Libby Hibby
20-08-2015, 06:09 PM
No...is that negative?

Keith_M
20-08-2015, 06:12 PM
No...is that negative?


It's positively negative...


I think.

tamig
20-08-2015, 06:15 PM
I don't spend any time on other teams forums. But do "that lot" spend as long constantly picking fault with everything to do with their club?

I read a book a few years ago called "Not everything in the world is *****" We should maybe hand out copies at the game (that's if those that hate it so much actually go to the games)

I'd love to know why some of us seem to revel in complaining about just how ***** everything is....
I think it's more that there are a few regular posters on here who I'd put in the glass half empty category - so you don't have to wait too long for something negative to pop up in even the most optimistic of threads. However, I don't think these characters are representative of our support as a whole. After some of the poundings of the last 4-5 years it's pretty amazing we still have a hard core of around 8k.

s.a.m
20-08-2015, 06:16 PM
Or two negatives. Which makes a positive.
Result!!

PISTOL1875
20-08-2015, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't say we were the most negative but my word , we are up there alright.. Sometimes I read posts on here from people and listen to others at matches who I think are never happy unless they are complaining.. Moaning constantly instead of backing the team and the players.. One player makes a mistake and he is instantly ***** and the fans are right on his back.. Other managers have publically stated this in the media and that being the reason they wouldn't want to take over at Easter Road...

Yeh we have had very little to shout about over the last decade but this cycle we are in will get us nowhere in future years... Rod Petrie's being in charge of things hasn't helped in any way or form and I feel that when he does eventually leave , a dark cloud will be lifted over Hibs and fans will come back...

Lago
20-08-2015, 07:32 PM
Yes we are but we have good reason to be, I am going to be negative here, I am 22 and overall I have have a truly miserable life supporting Hibs, blips aside. On the other hand I will never stop going to watch my team and hoping that just maybe one day we will get a bit of glory for ourselves. Although I hate the negativity around the club I do not blame anybody for feeling that way.
I am at the other end of the age group, I vividly remember the tornados, and some of the characters I ve seen in hibs shirts lately claiming to be football players make my heart sink. To have seen hibs hold there own with Leeds Utd and Liverpool, to have seen a 16 year old Jimmy O'Rouke make first team debut in a European competition, to have watched the like of Stanton, Blackley, Edwards, Duncan, Stewart, is it any wonder that I was tempted to post a negative comment after the Dumbarton game (I didn't ) maybe I should have. People who care about the club have been driven to negativity by the absolute mediocrity that they have been forced to watch over many years, over seen by managers like Auld, Duffy, Williamson, Calderwood, need I go on, yes there are a minority that take pleasure in a negative post, but most don't.

Bostonhibby
20-08-2015, 07:39 PM
I am at the other end of the age group, I vividly remember the tornados, and some of the characters I ve seen in hibs shirts lately claiming to be football players make my heart sink. To have seen hibs hold there own with Leeds Utd and Liverpool, to have seen a 16 year old Jimmy O'Rouke make first team debut in a European competition, to have watched the like of Stanton, Blackley, Edwards, Duncan, Stewart, is it any wonder that I was tempted to post a negative comment after the Dumbarton game (I didn't ) maybe I should have. People who care about the club have been driven to negativity by the absolute mediocrity that they have been forced to watch over many years, over seen by managers like Auld, Duffy, Williamson, Calderwood, need I go on, yes there are a minority that take pleasure in a negative post, but most don't.

:top marks same era as me I feel.

Its definitely been tough going since Mowbray and to think I was unhappy with Auld just because he knew how to set out not to get beat, and often achieved it - he was counter culture to what we had been brought up on just prior to him.

Pretty Boy
20-08-2015, 07:59 PM
Perspective is key - we, as a support, are not overtly negative IMHO. In fact, I think there's a lot of optimism and support. You get the odd loudmouth at games that will have a go relentlessly, but for every one of them there are several hundred/thousand who get behind the team.

On hibs.net, there are a handful of posters who post almost relentlessly negative posts, but again they're in the minority. There are others that give honest opinions on negative events - when we get pumped by Dumbarton, complaining about it isn't negative - it's a natural reaction, and you'll often find these posters reacting very positively to positive news.

We are probably not unlike any other support, to be honest. Except for the yams, who are freaks.

Spot on, saved me a bit of typing.

Lago
20-08-2015, 08:03 PM
:top marks same era as me I feel.

Its definitely been tough going since Mowbray and to think I was unhappy with Auld just because he kundoubtedly to set out not to get beat, and often did - he was counter culture to what we had been brought up on just prior to him.
It has been hard going and you know, I had a father in law who would take great delight in telling me tales of the famous five, and how Gordon Smith was undoubtedly the greatest footballer he had ever seen, and he was a proud English man, who grew to love hibs as much as newcastle his home team, but even he admitted that watching Turnball's team was up there with the best. in later years he gave up going to ER because he couldn't reconcile what hibs had become against what they had been, and I don't think he was alone in doing that, and in a way who can blame them.

Sir David Gray
20-08-2015, 08:03 PM
Spot on, saved me a bit of typing.

:agree: Particularly the last sentence. :greengrin

HappyAsHellas
21-08-2015, 12:47 AM
If most other teams had been through what we have over the last 6 or 7 years they would be leaving in their droves. We are not in a particularly happy place at the moment, our pre season which was going well until the SA saga, the defeat from Der Hun in the petrowahtsit cup (even though we had 5 first team members missing and 5 teenagers on the bench) does not make for happy reading. However dear fellow Hibbies, let us not be disheartened by recent events. Losing to Dumbarton was not nice, yet Dom's post match interview filled me with hope - and there's the rub, the players knew they had under performed as did we. Young Henderson looks like a player as does McGinn. We are building and nurturing a youthful side combined with 4 year contracts which bodes well for the future. I remember Turnbull's tornadoes, great European adventures and lording it over the puddledrinkers for years on end. To me, it feels like a great and unbearable weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Years of mismanagement and employing the wrong people at the wrong time has finally ceased. We are now, I believe, truly back on the road to where Hibs should be - that doesn't mean it will be easy, or we might have to face the odd disappointment along the road. But we are being run as a good, honest footballing community club now - when's the last time you could say that? Not in my lifetime. Be patient, the corner is fast approaching, and unlike the puddledrinkers from the slum area known as Gorgie, we will never stoop so low as to have only 5,000 fans a week 'cause they weren't doing very well at the time. Hibs fans negative? NEVER!

Pete
21-08-2015, 01:52 AM
The thing is the negatives outweigh the positives by some distance in Hibs history, to be positive we need something tangible to cling on to, Stubbs and co are doing a good job so far but just can't help feeling it's all gonna go pear shaped at any moment, we are a very fragile club and supporting Hibs has really dampened my own personal enthusiasm for football in general.

Bloody hell I didn't think you could trump your last post but you've done it.

To be fair, I think there are only two clubs in Scotland where positives outweigh the negatives in their history and the rest are pretty much of a muchness.

It doesn't matter who you support, you're a pretty hardy soul if you're a non-OF Scottish football fan.

Kaiser1962
21-08-2015, 06:57 AM
Are you not effectively saying though that we've been fairly rubbish consistently for 35 years? Eddie Turnbull's record for league finishes was actually 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 6th,4th, 5th, and 10th, so it's maybe more like 40 years! This is seen as being our 2nd greatest era in history and folk talk like the Tornadoes were unbeatable.

Dont get me wrong- we probably have under-achieved simply due to the size of the club, but I don't get the theory that Hibs fans are entitled to expect better because of past standards.

We "split" the OF in 1973-1974 and again in 1974-1975. It could be argued we did it again in 1977-1978 (4th to Celtic's 5th) and 1994-1995 (3rd to Celtic's 4th). Those remain the only two times we have finished above Celtic or (pre 2012) Rangers since 1964-1965 (4th to Rangers 5th and Celtic's 8th) and we never finished above Rangers (New or Old with them in the same division) till last season, 40 years after Turnbull did it.

Incidentally Hibs were managed by Jock Stein in 1964-1965

Beefster
21-08-2015, 08:00 AM
We are when it comes to criticising other Hibs supporters.

Bostonhibby
21-08-2015, 08:13 AM
We "split" the OF in 1973-1974 and again in 1974-1975. It could be argued we did it again in 1977-1978 (4th to Celtic's 5th) and 1994-1995 (3rd to Celtic's 4th). Those remain the only two times we have finished above Celtic or (pre 2012) Rangers since 1964-1965 (4th to Rangers 5th and Celtic's 8th) and we never finished above Rangers (New or Old with them in the same division) till last season, 40 years after Turnbull did it.

Incidentally Hibs were managed by Jock Stein in 1964-1965

Interesting stats, thanks, in the 70's period you mention I used to really look forward to playing the uglies as we usually got a result - also led me to the conclusion that the rangers have a bit more incentive this season as they have never finished above us.

Keith_M
21-08-2015, 08:21 AM
Just to clarify on 'Turnbull's Tornadoes'.


That phrase was only ever used in regard to the early part of the Turnbull era.

Each person might have a slightly different perspective on what exactly it refers to (e.g. some people regard it as referring to a specific eleven) but, even in it's loosest sense, nobody ever referred to the the team of the last few years of Turnbull's reign as the 'Tornadoes'.

The Tornadoes were a great team. What came after that was average to downright awful, culminating in relegation.

Posh Swanny
21-08-2015, 08:44 AM
As a Posh fans who has also lived in Portsmouth, I can honestly say that Hibs fans are no different to those two sets of fans, so I'd wager that it's no different to others in Scotland too. When things aren't going well they moan like *****, barrack their own players, argue with each other, boycott games etc. And by "not going well" I tend to mean, "not as well as expected" - Pompey fans moaning a few years ago as they didn't invest at the right time to push on into Europe, Posh fans going crazy at the owner because Sheffield United pay higher wages than we do.

The only times fans are truly happy are when a) their team is winning consistently or b) their team has been brought back from the brink of financial oblivion and there's a feeling of unity about the place. Bournemouth and (sadly) Hearts come to mind as two clubs who are riding the crest of those two particular waves right now. But it only usually works for a relatively short time - many Brighton fans are back to their moaning best already, for example.

Unfortunately for Hibs fans, the club have been struggling to escape the forecful rip-tide of on-pitch rubbish coupled with relative financial security for quite some time!