Forget the defence - we just don't score enough: Stats from last season

[The Leith Dutch]

Lot of people slamming the defence after Saturday and without excusing their mistakes it's just not where our problem is.
We are ineffectual around the opposition goal - last season we were regularly hitting 15+ attempts on goal but still averaged less than 2 a game.

Realistically:
We will never sign defenders who don't make mistakes.
We can have attack minded players capable of sticking 3 or 4 past teams like Dumbarton.

We need to be attacking enough to not worry about conceding anything less than 3 goals.

Stats from last season:

Hibs scored 2 or more : W20 D1 L0
Hibs scored only 1 : W1 D4 L3
Hibs don't score : W0 D2 L5

We shipped 36 of the 38 points we dropped in games where we scored < 2 goals
A massive half of those points came in games where we only scored one where you're vulnerable to a freak moment or a loss of concentration.

We need to:
1) Stop pissing about trying to walk it in
2) Learn to (or sign folk) who can shoot from distance
3) Cross properly from open play and corners
4) Get more shots off

We're going to ship stupid goals but we need to stop them meaning we ship stupid points.

[Waxy]

Perhaps someone could do a sticky Hibs goalscorers league on here. Guess alot of players read these forums and a league table would be extra motivation to find the net
Plus it's always good to see the scoring stats and this would make it easy to find.

[SunshineOnLeith]

We scored more goals than anyone apart from Hearts in the league last season.

[BoomtownHibees]

We shouldn't have to score 3 or 4 goals to beat Dumbarton

[The Leith Dutch]

We scored more goals than anyone apart from Hearts in the league last season.

Yep but we didn't score enough. Nowhere near enough.

They scored 26 extra goals which translated to 21 extra points primarily because that gave them more 2+ games (they averaged 2.66 a game).
Aside from being a significant number more goals than us their value is seriously inflated as the goals over 2 directly lead to points saved or points won.

[southsider]

These are part-time pub players we are up against. We should be scoring 3 0r 4 goals a game. Leigh would get 50 goals in this league......just as soon as those pesky euro-million numbers come up.

[Smartie]

Our reluctance to "put it in the mixer" from free kicks was baffling too. You never know what you might get from the odd % ball (and no, I'm not advocating all-out Butcherball).

Send up the centre-halves then play tippy tappy football amongst yourselves 40 yards out whilst all the other players watch on from the box.

Bizarre.

[The Leith Dutch]

We shouldn't have to score 3 or 4 goals to beat Dumbarton

You're right and I'm certainly not happy about shipping 2 goals to Dumbarton and they were stupid goals to lose but nonetheless we're just not going to sign a defence that doesn't concede any goals.

Put it another way even had it been one goal we'd still have dropped two points.

We can - and should - have attacking players who can score 2+ goals each game and that will win you significantly more points and is much, much more achievable than getting a watertight defence.

I'd also rather watch us beat Dumbarton 4-2 than 1-0.

[Big_Franck]

Last season we badly lacked goals from midfield. Something that IMO Stubbs hasn't addressed with his signings so far this summer. If we don't sign goal-scoring midfielders/wide players we won't win the league IMO.

[Smartie]

Last season we badly lacked goals from midfield. Something that IMO Stubbs hasn't addressed with his signings so far this summer. If we don't sign goal-scoring midfielders/wide players we won't win the league IMO.

A bit harsh.

Carmichael, Boyle and McGinn haven't featured yet, I'm positive they'll add to our threat in the final third.

[Brightside]

tbh ive never understood why we don't shoot from outside the box. Standard of goalie in this league is poor. Sign Toni Duggan from Manchester Ladies... she;s pings them in from 30 yards all day long.

[Hibby 2005]

Is it unrealistic to expect our defence to keep a clean sheet against Dumbarton? I've said elsewhere that there's now extra pressure on our forwards/midfielders to score at least twice in every game.

[J-C]

Our goal to shot ratio is very poor, takes far too many attempts to score, get that sorted or get players in that can convert. People keep saying Cummings and malonga were top strikers, 20 an 18 respectively but tbh who else was scoring, not enough frkm elsewhere and not enough from our strikers also.

[The Leith Dutch]

tbh ive never understood why we don't shoot from outside the box. Standard of goalie in this league is poor. Sign Toni Duggan from Manchester Ladies... she;s pings them in from 30 yards all day long.

Yep. Aside from the fact that you'll get goals from the shots - especially in this league as you say - it makes us far less predictable and makes the moves we currently do more likely to be effective. Teams can't just sit off if we can shoot from distance which means potentially more gaps for the tippy-tappy stuff.

When I watch us attack I can see exactly what we're going to do so the opposition will see it to.
That instantly means the pass in to the player for the chance has to be an order of magnitude better if you want it to succeed.

I do think having Boyle fit will give us a big lift as a bit of pace always gives you an alternative mind.

[Purple & Green]

If you'd wrote that before the season kicked off, then there's a lot of sense and looking back to last season, say, v 1998/99 when we shipped more goals per game then it's a reasonable observation on what needed improved.

However.

Having lost six at home to Rangers, and two at Dumbarton in our opening three games I'm of the opinion that there are serious issues in the defence that needs resolved now otherwise we could end up half a dozen points behind Rangers before we're out of August.

It's essentially the same defence as last season, but so far I think we miss Forster and Gray doesn't look fit. We lack options to come in, I fear.


Lot of people slamming the defence after Saturday and without excusing their mistakes it's just not where our problem is.
We are ineffectual around the opposition goal - last season we were regularly hitting 15+ attempts on goal but still averaged less than 2 a game.

Realistically:
We will never sign defenders who don't make mistakes.
We can have attack minded players capable of sticking 3 or 4 past teams like Dumbarton.

We need to be attacking enough to not worry about conceding anything less than 3 goals.

Stats from last season:

Hibs scored 2 or more : W20 D1 L0
Hibs scored only 1 : W1 D4 L3
Hibs don't score : W0 D2 L5

We shipped 36 of the 38 points we dropped in games where we scored < 2 goals
A massive half of those points came in games where we only scored one where you're vulnerable to a freak moment or a loss of concentration.

We need to:
1) Stop pissing about trying to walk it in
2) Learn to (or sign folk) who can shoot from distance
3) Cross properly from open play and corners
4) Get more shots off

We're going to ship stupid goals but we need to stop them meaning we ship stupid points.

[Big_Franck]

A bit harsh.

Carmichael, Boyle and McGinn haven't featured yet, I'm positive they'll add to our threat in the final third.

I don't think it is. Boyle was here last season but for the two players you've mentioned McGinn scored 4 goals in 84 games for St Mirren and Carmichael scored 1 goal last season and 1 goal in season 2013-14.

Of course these midfielders that haven't scored many goals in their careers so far could all start scoring a lot more but it's unlikely IMO.

I don't doubt that they are good players but for me at the moment we look like we'll again dominate teams but not score enough goals to win the league.

[Gordy M]

These are part-time pub players we are up against. We should be scoring 3 0r 4 goals a game. Leigh would get 50 goals in this league......just as soon as those pesky euro-million numbers come up.
Nah they are not. Just cos they are part time doesnt make them a pub team:rolleyes: Yeh we should be beating them but that is just wrong.

[The Leith Dutch]

Having lost six at home to Rangers, and two at Dumbarton in our opening three games I'm of the opinion that there are serious issues in the defence that needs resolved now otherwise we could end up half a dozen points behind Rangers before we're out of August.

It's essentially the same defence as last season, but so far I think we miss Forster and Gray doesn't look fit. We lack options to come in, I fear.

Hoping I don't come across as unconcerned with how poorly we've defended but I thought Fontaine looked very good last season and Hanlon looked better when Fontaine played well as the latter is more of a leader.

Missed the Petrofac game but will be along on Saturday and will be interested to see how Gray is.
Worrying that he's gone from what looked like one of our most positive signings to inconsistent/injury prone.

Related - I'm surprised of the talk of another CH in the transfer thread not because of the quality of players we have there but the quantity.

Given the supposed squad composition Leanne Dempster put forward I'd have thought we wouldn't be looking for another CH having Fontaine, Hanlon and Forster there with the under 21 and youth players as cover.

I'd presume it must be either a youth player, a dual cover player who can play Full Back as well or I'd take it as an indication that we're thinking three centre backs as the main defensive formation.

[Purple & Green]

Not at all.

I think Saturday will be interesting as its the kind of game where we struggled last season v full time teams at Easter Road.




Hoping I don't come across as unconcerned with how poorly we've defended but I thought Fontaine looked very good last season and Hanlon looked better when Fontaine played well as the latter is more of a leader.

Missed the Petrofac game but will be along on Saturday and will be interested to see how Gray is.
Worrying that he's gone from what looked like one of our most positive signings to inconsistent/injury prone.

Related - I'm surprised of the talk of another CH in the transfer thread not because of the quality of players we have there but the quantity.

Given the supposed squad composition Leanne Dempster put forward I'd have thought we wouldn't be looking for another CH having Fontaine, Hanlon and Forster there with the under 21 and youth players as cover.

I'd presume it must be either a youth player, a dual cover player who can play Full Back as well or I'd take it as an indication that we're thinking three centre backs as the main defensive formation.

[HFC 0-7]

Lot of people slamming the defence after Saturday and without excusing their mistakes it's just not where our problem is.
We are ineffectual around the opposition goal - last season we were regularly hitting 15+ attempts on goal but still averaged less than 2 a game.

Realistically:
We will never sign defenders who don't make mistakes.
We can have attack minded players capable of sticking 3 or 4 past teams like Dumbarton.

We need to be attacking enough to not worry about conceding anything less than 3 goals.

Stats from last season:

Hibs scored 2 or more : W20 D1 L0
Hibs scored only 1 : W1 D4 L3
Hibs don't score : W0 D2 L5

We shipped 36 of the 38 points we dropped in games where we scored < 2 goals
A massive half of those points came in games where we only scored one where you're vulnerable to a freak moment or a loss of concentration.

We need to:
1) Stop pissing about trying to walk it in
2) Learn to (or sign folk) who can shoot from distance
3) Cross properly from open play and corners
4) Get more shots off

We're going to ship stupid goals but we need to stop them meaning we ship stupid points.

you can look at it any way you want really. In the 15 games that we scored under 2, there were 7 games where the opposition defence performed better than ours. It was clearly a combination of the 2. Yes in some games we had a lot of chances but they were not clear cut, it wasn't like we were clean through with only the keeper to beat. The defence however let in quite a lot of silly goals which cost us points. We need to be having more clean sheets, top team grind out results at 1-0, what those stats show is that we can't do that because we will concede goals.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it's a bit of both. I think our defence is probably good enough but our goalie is not. He just doesn't make the saves when we need him. His shots to goals ratio is poor.
This is pointed out here by STV.
http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/hearts/314157-how-hearts-brushed-aside-the-competiton-to-win-the-scottish-championship/

However we also do not score enough goals especially our midfielders.
We have not signed any goal scoring midfielders either. Last season the yams had Walker, King and Nicholson regularly chipping in with goals.
Our strikers need to be better as well. In this league it is not unreasonable to expect them to be hitting 20+.