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Unseen work
09-08-2015, 03:31 PM
Some very interesting tweets today from tam about john Collins.

@The_Tman10: There is not a more arrogant man in Scottish football than John Collins. Great player in his day but if was chocolate would eat himself. 🙈🍫🍫

@The_Tman10: If you didn't have a 6 pack or do 50 pull ups you didn't play ask Stephen Glass!!😂 Glad punters now seeing what people within the game know.

Also our ex youngster Jonathan Bailey piped up

@jbaillie22: @The_Tman10 Telling John Park to send the young lads in one by one to look at his body so they knew what they had to aspire to! 😂😂

blackpoolhibs
09-08-2015, 03:36 PM
To be fair, if i was chocolate i'd eat myself too.


I love chocolate.

Jim44
09-08-2015, 03:38 PM
Some very interesting tweets today from tam about john Collins.

@The_Tman10: There is not a more arrogant man in Scottish football than John Collins. Great player in his day but if was chocolate would eat himself. 🙈🍫🍫

@The_Tman10: If you didn't have a 6 pack or do 50 pull ups you didn't play ask Stephen Glass!!😂 Glad punters now seeing what people within the game know.

Also our ex youngster Jonathan Bailey piped up

@jbaillie22: @The_Tman10 Telling John Park to send the young lads in one by one to look at his body so they knew what they had to aspire to! 😂😂

Fair comment but where are punters now seeing what those in the game already know?

Pete
09-08-2015, 03:40 PM
Some very interesting tweets today from tam about john Collins.

@The_Tman10: There is not a more arrogant man in Scottish football than John Collins. Great player in his day but if was chocolate would eat himself. 🙈🍫🍫

@The_Tman10: If you didn't have a 6 pack or do 50 pull ups you didn't play ask Stephen Glass!!😂 Glad punters now seeing what people within the game know.

Also our ex youngster Jonathan Bailey piped up

@jbaillie22: @The_Tman10 Telling John Park to send the young lads in one by one to look at his body so they knew what they had to aspire to! 😂😂

That last one sounds a bit dodgy.

Unseen work
09-08-2015, 03:40 PM
Fair comment but where are punters now seeing what those in the game already know?

Not sure mate. Just found it interesting how straight up he was about it. Heard a lot of hear say about the 6 pack story's etc but can't think of any who has came out and said it so directly

Hibernia&Alba
09-08-2015, 03:40 PM
[QUOTE=Unseen work;4436529@jbaillie22: @The_Tman10 Telling John Park to send the young lads in one by one to look at his body so they knew what they had to aspire to![/QUOTE]


Is that true? If so, it really is cringe.

Haymaker
09-08-2015, 03:42 PM
Not sure mate. Just found it interesting how straight up he was about it. Heard a lot of hear say about the 6 pack story's etc but can't think of any who has came out and said it so directly

Simon Brown? Someone like that. Pretty sure it was a keeper.


EDIT: Yep, Simon Brown http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/6729753.stm

Beefster
09-08-2015, 03:53 PM
Fair comment but where are punters now seeing what those in the game already know?

Collins is getting slated for an interview in today's press about how ***** Scottish players are.

Danderhall Hibs
09-08-2015, 03:57 PM
If top players like McManus and Baillie are willing to speak up about a no mark like JC I'm all ears.

Kojock
09-08-2015, 03:59 PM
To be fair, if i was chocolate i'd eat myself too.


I love chocolate.

Nah you would lick yourself it would take longer :wink:

Collins was at Dumbarton yesterday and I asked him if he was here to see SA, he said it was the Celtic player who is on loan to them he had come to see.

Beefster
09-08-2015, 03:59 PM
If top players like McManus and Baillie are willing to speak up about a no mark like JC I'm all ears.

Using that logic, not many folk would be allowed to say that Graeme Souness is a twat.

Hibby Bairn
09-08-2015, 03:59 PM
Collins is getting slated for an interview in today's press about how ***** Scottish players are.

Got a link to the story in today's paper?

Dave-O
09-08-2015, 04:01 PM
@jbaillie22: @The_Tman10 Telling John Park to send the young lads in one by one to look at his body so they knew what they had to aspire to! 

Is that even legal......:faf:

JimBHibees
09-08-2015, 04:03 PM
If top players like McManus and Baillie are willing to speak up about a no mark like JC I'm all ears.

My thoughts also. :greengrin

Kojock
09-08-2015, 04:10 PM
Got a link to the story in today's paper?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13583690.John_Collins__Scottish_players_not_clever _or_quick_enough_to_punish_Celtic/

Since90+2
09-08-2015, 04:16 PM
Nah you would lick yourself it would take longer :wink:

Collins was at Dumbarton yesterday and I asked him if he was here to see SA, he said it was the Celtic player who is on loan to them he had come to see.


Woudn't be surprised if they were having a peak at Cummings as well.

Mr White
09-08-2015, 04:24 PM
Did tam mcmanus ever work with or under jc? Seems an odd attack to make in public. It's no secret collins has high self esteem but imo, in football terms he has every right to. The man management and 6 pack stuff is questionable no doubt but folk like simon brown and tam mcmanus might have went a bit further in the game if they had a fraction of collins attitude and commitment to fitness.

GordonHFC
09-08-2015, 04:25 PM
I had a cracking 6 pack when I was younger but was completely **** at football.

Kojock
09-08-2015, 04:29 PM
Did tam mcmanus ever work with or under jc? Seems an odd attack to make in public. It's no secret collins has high self esteem but imo, in football terms he has every right to. The man management and 6 pack stuff is questionable no doubt but folk like simon brown and tam mcmanus might have went a bit further in the game if they had a fraction of collins attitude and commitment to fitness.

Frank Sauzee a great guy and a player than Collins could only dream about being.

Franck Stanton
09-08-2015, 04:34 PM
So what if Collins has a six - pack, so have I.....it's just that it is mixed in with the rest of the messages so you can't see it. :greengrin

Mr White
09-08-2015, 04:35 PM
Frank Sauzee a great guy and a player than Collins could only dream about being.

Hmmm not sure that's entirely true and anyway I wasn't suggesting arrogance is a pre-requisite for being a successful footballer but collins certainly has a track record to back up his attitude in terms of football achievement.

carnoustiehibee
09-08-2015, 04:48 PM
If top players like McManus and Baillie are willing to speak up about a no mark like JC I'm all ears.

A bit harsh, Baillie had a fantastic first game v celtic then I'm sure had to retire tho injury

Kojock
09-08-2015, 04:50 PM
Hmmm not sure that's entirely true and anyway I wasn't suggesting arrogance is a pre-requisite for being a successful footballer but collins certainly has a track record to back up his attitude in terms of football achievement.

I'm not questioning Collins track record, he was lucky enough to be born with a talent and has utilised that well, there's no need to adopt a superior attitude which he obviously has.


Collins, whose side visit Partick Thistle today, says it is easy for his players to adopt a swashbuckling mentality in domestic matches because their opponents are neither sharp nor smart enough to exploit spaces left at the back.

There's no need whatsoever to come out with statements like that.

The Hibee Harp
09-08-2015, 04:51 PM
If true it's likely that McManus and Baillie have heard stories second hand given Tam was emptied by Mowbray and Jonathan by Williamson. Iirc Tam came back for a short trial under Collins but wasn't offered a deal - bitter perhaps?

Mr White
09-08-2015, 05:06 PM
I'm not questioning Collins track record, he was lucky enough to be born with a talent and has utilised that well, there's no need to adopt a superior attitude which he obviously has.



There's no need whatsoever to come out with statements like that.

No disagreement on that.

Hibrandenburg
09-08-2015, 05:07 PM
Think Collins must have had at least one six pack before picking the team.

ionahibby
09-08-2015, 05:08 PM
Considering McManus's career nosedived i suspect it's pure resentment on his behalf. Football players get it too easy these days a little bit of work and they ain't happy.

Baader
09-08-2015, 05:28 PM
Think Collins must have had at least one six pack before picking the team.

Must've had about 4 when he signed Alan O'Brien.

GreenCastle
09-08-2015, 05:30 PM
John Collins did win us our last silverware !!

CraigHibee
09-08-2015, 05:32 PM
Im better than Collins, I've got a beer keg as a belly 😀

Thecat23
09-08-2015, 05:33 PM
Considering McManus's career nosedived i suspect it's pure resentment on his behalf. Football players get it too easy these days a little bit of work and they ain't happy.

Don't think they were scared of hard work. Maybe the fact Collins was acting like a Greek God made the players think he was a bit of a roaster?

I do believe though that Collins had the right attitude towards work ethic. Just a shame his people skills were non existent and he signed some of the worst players we've had!

Booked4Being-Ugly
09-08-2015, 05:34 PM
John Collins is a tw@t, is there a more cushier job in football than being number 2 to the Celtic manager?

Chip shop Joe
09-08-2015, 05:41 PM
No doubt he is a bit of a tube however we have been discussing for the last 24 hours how unfit we look at the moment. Something that could never be labelled at Collins or his team and he is/was a winner, again something that we appear to me missing! He was a great player and delivered both for Scotland and his clubs so love it or loath it he has earned the right to be an arrogant twat[emoji1]

jdships
09-08-2015, 06:01 PM
Interesting remarks by McM & B.
At the time JC was at ER I had two young rellies , 18/19 , at ER ( Now left the club)
Both have said , at the time and since, that JC had " not an ounce of man management skills"
One of the boys had , on a couple of occasions , asked him for advice . to do with his future career in football. On both occasions he "told" him to " speak to your father or get an agent "
The second one was the victim of a bit of bullying and sought Collins help , to be told" You'll have to learn to fend for yourself if your going to make it in football"
One of the physio's sorted it out for the lad
I hasten to add I have on a number of occasions spent time in JC's company at " social events " and always found him a pleasure to spend time with
It would appear it is his lack of understanding of management needs that llet him down
:confused:

Danderhall Hibs
09-08-2015, 06:06 PM
Interesting that an 18/19 year old knows what good man management is?

I'd also say speaking to your parents is good advice.

liamh2202
09-08-2015, 06:07 PM
Interesting that an 18/19 year old knows what good man management is?

I'd also say speaking to your parents is good advice.

Yeah getting an agent as a youth player is not a bad shout either tbh

Carheenlea
09-08-2015, 06:29 PM
If anyone is entitled to be a bit full of themselves it's someone like John Collins, who made had a great career playing for some big clubs. He didn't get there just by playing great football, he looked after himself and made the most of what was not little a talent. 10 times the player McManus ever was.

Unseen work
09-08-2015, 06:34 PM
No one is doubting Collins footballing ability or enthusiasm for the game.

But there's no way you can defend getting the youth players in the changing room to look at his 6 pack hahaha. Cringey.

Carheenlea
09-08-2015, 06:39 PM
No one is doubting Collins footballing ability or enthusiasm for the game.

But there's no way you can defend getting the youth players in the changing room to look at his 6 pack hahaha. Cringey.

That is hard to defend to be fair :hmmm:

silverhibee
09-08-2015, 06:41 PM
If top players like McManus and Baillie are willing to speak up about a no mark like JC I'm all ears.

:tee hee:

Kojock
09-08-2015, 06:50 PM
Just because you are good at something or had to work hard to get there, why do you have to adopt a superior, I'm better than you attitude. Hes got the wee man syndrome.

Mr White
09-08-2015, 07:05 PM
Just because you are good at something or had to work hard to get there, why do you have to adopt a superior, I'm better than you attitude. Hes got the wee man syndrome.

Perhaps but maybe if some of our former players had listened to the essence of what he was saying rather than the delivery they could have improved their professional performance. Ignoring the message because the messenger is an arrogant prick is a little self defeating imo. Having said that his comments about partick and the other teams in the premiership were unprofessional and uncalled for and i'll be glad to see them come back to haunt him.

heretoday
09-08-2015, 07:57 PM
No one is doubting Collins footballing ability or enthusiasm for the game.

But there's no way you can defend getting the youth players in the changing room to look at his 6 pack hahaha. Cringey.

I can't imagine the unassuming Alan Stubbs doing that.

jdships
09-08-2015, 08:35 PM
Interesting that an 18/19 year old knows what good man management is?

I'd also say speaking to your parents is good advice.

When a boy signs for a football club as a professional the least surely he can expect from his manager is help ,advice .and guidance .
Is that too much to ask for ?
How much did either of our fathers know about professional football and the workings of a club ?
We are talking about advice as to training, finance and the way forward in their careers
When these two lads signed up with Hibs there were two people from the club explaining what was expected from them and what they could expect from the staff at ER
Surely a Manager who could find time to speak with his players one to one is not asking too much
Hibs run educational classes for their young players which is to their credit
After Collins left the attitude of the managers who followed changed and there was a completely different atmosphere between the management staff and the players
Hope that you have a better attitude towards your staff at work than JC had :greengrin:wink:

jdships
09-08-2015, 08:38 PM
Yeah getting an agent as a youth player is not a bad shout either tbh

And the cost is ?
Most lads wait till they sign their first " Professiona;" contract

Jim44
09-08-2015, 08:40 PM
Perhaps but maybe if some of our former players had listened to the essence of what he was saying rather than the delivery they could have improved their professional performance. Ignoring the message because the messenger is an arrogant prick is a little self defeating imo. Having said that his comments about partick and the other teams in the premiership were unprofessional and uncalled for and i'll be glad to see them come back to haunt him.

His boss, Deila, had a sarky go at the state of Scottish pitches last week as well. This is all part of their superior attitude about not wanting to be in the Scottish leagues. They absolutely hate and resent their association with the SPFL but seem to forget that their whole existence was and is built round being a member of our league. They don't seem to realise that participation in European competitions is a reward for doing well in their national league and that participation in our national league is not a preparation for European football. They can greet and moan all they want, but until an elitist European League is established and they flee the nest, they shouldn't wash their dirty linen in public.

H18 SFR
09-08-2015, 08:46 PM
I would take John Collins back in a millisecond. He had/has extremely high expectations, demanded high standards and led by example. Sadly many players in the modern game don't seem to aspire to much in the game. Plenty aspirations re salary but not re development.

Mr White
09-08-2015, 08:49 PM
His boss, Deila, had a sarky go at the state of Scottish pitches last week as well. This is all part of their superior attitude about not wanting to be in the Scottish leagues. They absolutely hate and resent their association with the SPFL but seem to forget that their whole existence was and is built round being a member of our league. They don't seem to realise that participation in European competitions is a reward for doing well in their national league and that participation in our national league is not a preparation for European football. They can greet and moan all they want, but until an elitist European League is established and they flee the nest, they shouldn't wash their dirty linen in public.

Celtc management in outburst of delusional arrogance. Shockeroony :greengrin

Mcpakeisgod
09-08-2015, 09:17 PM
Interesting that an 18/19 year old knows what good man management is?

I'd also say speaking to your parents is good advice.

It is interesting, and it's right, they are the ones being managed, if they don't like how it's going, then they are obviously being managed the wrong way.

Danderhall Hibs
09-08-2015, 09:18 PM
It is interesting, and it's right, they are the ones being managed, if they don't like how it's going, then they are obviously being managed the wrong way.

Of course they've no experience of what good is and are probably being influenced by the experienced pros in the room.

Mcpakeisgod
09-08-2015, 09:20 PM
Going by the chap talking about the two 18/19 year olds, there was no external influence, they asked for help/advice, and got told to run along

liamh2202
09-08-2015, 09:22 PM
And the cost is ?
Most lads wait till they sign their first " Professiona;" contract

No cost. They give free advice in the hope you stick with them when you do go proffesional.

MWHIBBIES
09-08-2015, 09:26 PM
No doubt he is a bit of a tube however we have been discussing for the last 24 hours how unfit we look at the moment. Something that could never be labelled at Collins or his team and he is/was a winner, again something that we appear to me missing! He was a great player and delivered both for Scotland and his clubs so love it or loath it he has earned the right to be an arrogant twat[emoji1]I don't think anyone has a right to be a twat to their colleagues and peers because they are good at what they do.

overdrive
09-08-2015, 09:27 PM
I'm a bit surprised but this article seems to suggest Baillie was still at Hibs under Collins so he may have witnessed what he claims.

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/collins-hails-retiring-hibs-kid-baillie-1-1317125

anon1875
09-08-2015, 11:35 PM
I guess we will never know but what I will say is that John Collins is working with a team on the verge or qualifying for the champions league group stages and Tam McManus is where? Maybe Jc was a bit arrogant and maybe that's why he is a better coach than manager, I still think he knows what he's talking about.

jacomo
10-08-2015, 02:16 AM
No doubt he is a bit of a tube however we have been discussing for the last 24 hours how unfit we look at the moment. Something that could never be labelled at Collins or his team and he is/was a winner, again something that we appear to me missing! He was a great player and delivered both for Scotland and his clubs so love it or loath it he has earned the right to be an arrogant twat[emoji1]

:agree:

On the one hand fans complain about the chronic lack of a winner's mentality at Hibs. On the other, they love piling into the one manager in recent times who showed an ability to instil one.

I couldn't give a s*** what the players thought of JC. He got winning performances out of them.

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 06:29 AM
Interesting remarks by McM & B.
At the time JC was at ER I had two young rellies , 18/19 , at ER ( Now left the club)
Both have said , at the time and since, that JC had " not an ounce of man management skills"
One of the boys had , on a couple of occasions , asked him for advice . to do with his future career in football. On both occasions he "told" him to " speak to your father or get an agent "
The second one was the victim of a bit of bullying and sought Collins help , to be told" You'll have to learn to fend for yourself if your going to make it in football"
One of the physio's sorted it out for the lad
I hasten to add I have on a number of occasions spent time in JC's company at " social events " and always found him a pleasure to spend time with
It would appear it is his lack of understanding of management needs that llet him down
:confused:

You must come from an incredibly talented and huge family as you seem to have a never ending supply of relatives who have been on Hibs books over the last 10 years or so!

Bay Area Hibees
10-08-2015, 06:31 AM
Clearly JC has high opinion of himself.
But that seems to be common thread, Sir A Ferguson is far from universally liked. For all that praise what he did for some players there are plenty that have examples to the contrary.
I guess that's the reality of football management.
JC was my first hibs hero, was pure class.
Quite unusual for ex players to be critical of others public ally so guess Tam really has axe to grind.

Danderhall Hibs
10-08-2015, 06:51 AM
You must come from an incredibly talented and huge family as you seem to have a never ending supply of relatives who have been on Hibs books over the last 10 years or so!

:agree: and the 2 boys didn't think to go to any of their relatives for career advice.

Andy74
10-08-2015, 06:57 AM
You must come from an incredibly talented and huge family as you seem to have a never ending supply of relatives who have been on Hibs books over the last 10 years or so!

I've always thought that about in the know guys. Some have been in the know for years despite players and staff changing regularly. Perhaps Lewis Stevenson has a lot mates that like a gossip?

scooby
10-08-2015, 07:04 AM
Don't think they were scared of hard work. Maybe the fact Collins was acting like a Greek God made the players think he was a bit of a roaster?

I do believe though that Collins had the right attitude towards work ethic. Just a shame his people skills were non existent and he signed some of the worst players we've had!

This.

jdships
10-08-2015, 07:38 AM
You must come from an incredibly talented and huge family as you seem to have a never ending supply of relatives who have been on Hibs books over the last 10 years or so!

For the record
Played for the Hibs
My Uncle 1920/30
Cousin 1950's
Cousin 1960/70
Cousin's son 1990
do 2012/14
do 2012/14

Played for Liverpool
Billy Liddel 1940's
Relation thro' marriage
2nd Cousin 1970's

That answer your quetion :greengrin

jdships
10-08-2015, 07:41 AM
No cost. They give free advice in the hope you stick with them when you do go proffesional.

Fair comment . Thank you

Stokesy's on fire
10-08-2015, 08:23 AM
John Collins won us a cup and did it in style. A cup winning manager and should be respected for that.

Scorrie
10-08-2015, 08:27 AM
For the record
Played for the Hibs
My Uncle 1920/30
Cousin 1950's
Cousin 1960/70
Cousin's son 1990
do 2012/14
do 2012/14

Played for Liverpool
Billy Liddel 1940's
Relation thro' marriage
2nd Cousin 1970's

That answer your quetion :greengrin

Jeezo with that pedigree I'll be disappointed if you don't start against Morton 😀

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 08:43 AM
For the record
Played for the Hibs
My Uncle 1920/30
Cousin 1950's
Cousin 1960/70
Cousin's son 1990
do 2012/14
do 2012/14

Played for Liverpool
Billy Liddel 1940's
Relation thro' marriage
2nd Cousin 1970's

That answer your quetion :greengrin

I wasn't questioning the validity of your claims although there doesn't seem to be any overlap with the Collins era from the info provided?

It was more a statement that including yourself it was quite unusual that one family would have such an history of providing players for the club.

It must be quite bitter sweet that yourself and the Collins era & 2012-14 youngsters didn't graduate to the first team?

I suppose its a salutary lesson that you have never "made it" until you are established in the first team.

As someone for whom the peak of their career was Edinburgh Amateurs and Sunday pub leagues it is still one hell of an achievement.

Probably too early to say for the 12-14 youngsters but did the rest remain in the game?

I used to coach for Bonnyrigg Rose's young teams and a few of the boys from there and other teams in the leagues went initiative.

Some of these boys looked very good and as some of them were mates of my son I tried to keep track of them, these boys are now in their mid 20's and after being spat out by the machine only one of them now plays football at any level (Preston Athletic)and he was never picked up at initiative level. The others don't play at all anywhere.

Always seems a great pity to me that these boys who had far far more ability than I could ever had imagined became so disillusioned they didn't want to even play amateur with their mates.

Another thing is that a hell of a lot of them ended up injured (not a career ending one, but just old and worn out before their time with various niggles) and couldn't play now even if they wanted to.

NAE NOOKIE
10-08-2015, 10:09 AM
Collins has the right attitude as far as fitness is concerned. These days though any individual player who wants to continue making a living at the game must realise that they are professional athletes and act accordingly, they surely don't need the coach or manager to point that out. That's one reason I'm pleased to see the club try to get Andy Murray on board .. a man who is his own manager and must push himself to the standard of fitness he needs to stay at the top and listen to fitness coaches he knows he can sack at a whim, a true example to follow. ................... As for Collins the manager: For me he is the man who took arguably the best Hibs team since the 70s and failed to get them past a 1st division team and into a cup final against one of the poorer sides his precious Celtic has had for quite some time. A man who instead of realising that page one chapter one of 'how to get noticed as a novice manager' is to find a way to overcome a clubs limited finances, not quit like a prima donna when he gets told the budget is going to be limited, that privilege is reserved for managers who have already made their mark.............................. His comments about Scottish players are at best badly thought out, of course there are players out there capable of unlocking the Celtic defense .. Leigh Griffiths, Gary McKay - Steven, Nadir Ciftci ... oh wait a minute. I seem to remember St Johnston's dummies unpicking their back 4 like a poundshop lock in the first game of the season and a sympathetic ref allowing the horribly exposed Gordon to stay on after his last man foul.

jdships
10-08-2015, 11:03 AM
I wasn't questioning the validity of your claims although there doesn't seem to be any overlap with the Collins era from the info provided?

It was more a statement that including yourself it was quite unusual that one family would have such an history of providing players for the club.

It must be quite bitter sweet that yourself and the Collins era & 2012-14 youngsters didn't graduate to the first team?

I suppose its a salutary lesson that you have never "made it" until you are established in the first team.

As someone for whom the peak of their career was Edinburgh Amateurs and Sunday pub leagues it is still one hell of an achievement.

Probably too early to say for the 12-14 youngsters but did the rest remain in the game?

I used to coach for Bonnyrigg Rose's young teams and a few of the boys from there and other teams in the leagues went initiative.

Some of these boys looked very good and as some of them were mates of my son I tried to keep track of them, these boys are now in their mid 20's and after being spat out by the machine only one of them now plays football at any level (Preston Athletic)and he was never picked up at initiative level. The others don't play at all anywhere.

Always seems a great pity to me that these boys who had far far more ability than I could ever had imagined became so disillusioned they didn't want to even play amateur with their mates.

Another thing is that a hell of a lot of them ended up injured (not a career ending one, but just old and worn out before their time with various niggles) and couldn't play now even if they wanted to.



Good post and thankyou for your comments which are very interesting and true to life (( for me anyway :greengrin)
My father was one of 13 children , 10 males, ( !!!!) and three of them played pro football for Hibs , Falkirk and Kings Park ( now Stirling Albion)
My uncle , who also played for Leith Athletic and St Bernards , in WW2 was too old to fight , and spent a lot of time at ER " helping out" and I was taken along regularly and met my all tiime hero Jimmy Kerr the goalkeeper !!.
Tommy Preston , born the same year as myself,was a lifelong friend and intrduced me to many Hibs players and took me to functions right up until his recent death
Your highlighted para says it all!!
I was pro ( part time) at 17 " A talent" at 18 " a promising winger" at close to 20 " Sorry son don't think you will make it at this level " ( my manager) . Freed and decided to give up and follow my trade .
Alex Miller told me once if he got a small handful of boys out of 50/60 17/19 yearolds who eventually made it to the top he was happy
Always remember in the " old days" at the end of the season looking for the " Reinstatement" List of players freed from Senior clubs and returning to Junior to see who hadn't made it !!
From my own short career , albeit a long time ago, I was always grateful for a pat on the back or general advice form the manager and when he gave me a " nickname" I really thought I had made it :greengrin
For me it doesn't matter a toss what level you played the game at the bottom line was the FUN and friendship of those playing days
I still have a couple of mates . now like me, in their 80's who played at a much higher level than myself and we meet now and again and " chew the fat" and wallow in nostalgia
" The Last of the Summer Wine " if you like !!
Thanks again !!:thumbsup:

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 11:24 AM
Good post and thankyou for your comments which are very interesting and true to life (( for me anyway :greengrin)
My father was one of 13 children , 10 males, ( !!!!) and three of them played pro football for Hibs , Falkirk and Kings Park ( now Stirling Albion)
My uncle , who also played for Leith Athletic and St Bernards , in WW2 was too old to fight , and spent a lot of time at ER " helping out" and I was taken along regularly and met my all tiime hero Jimmy Kerr the goalkeeper !!.
Tommy Preston , born the same year as myself,was a lifelong friend and intrduced me to many Hibs players and took me to functions right up until his recent death
Your highlighted para says it all!!
I was pro ( part time) at 17 " A talent" at 18 " a promising winger" at close to 20 " Sorry son don't think you will make it at this level " ( my manager) . Freed and decided to give up and follow my trade .
Alex Miller told me once if he got a small handful of boys out of 50/60 17/19 yearolds who eventually made it to the top he was happy
Always remember in the " old days" at the end of the season looking for the " Reinstatement" List of players freed from Senior clubs and returning to Junior to see who hadn't made it !!
From my own short career , albeit a long time ago, I was always grateful for a pat on the back or general advice form the manager and when he gave me a " nickname" I really thought I had made it :greengrin
For me it doesn't matter a toss what level you played the game at the bottom line was the FUN and friendship of those playing days
I still have a couple of mates . now like me, in their 80's who played at a much higher level than myself and we meet now and again and " chew the fat" and wallow in nostalgia
" The Last of the Summer Wine " if you like !!
Thanks again !!:thumbsup:

Interesting

I knew Jimmy Kerr

He was a member of Longniddry where I was also a member too as were Eddie Turnbull & Lawrie Reilly and Tommy Younger

I was lucky enough to play with Jimmy a couple of times and this would be late 70's early 80's and he was a lovely humble guy.

I didn't play with Lawrie or Eddie but knew them and in particular Eddie to speak to.

I suppose the worlds a different place now, but I come from a long line of Hibs supporters and getting to meet and speak to guys who were heroes to my father and I was a great thrill.

There's a huge disconnect now between footballers and supporters, although other than at OF level in Scotland, they aren't on huge money but they just seem so much more remote than their forebears even though they aren't in remotely the same class of player.

I was luck enough to be invited to a dinner at Archerfield 3 or 4 months back and was sat beside Tommy Younger's son who is one of their Exec's, I kind of knew him through Longniddry also but only vaguely.

We got talking about his Dad's regular trips back from National Service to play for Hibs (way before my time, but I knew this from Hibs books I have) and I couldn't remember his nickname "Offenbach"

In the modern day cult of nothing celebrity's these guys and the Tornadoes were really something.

To paraphrase "Flower of Scotland" When will we see their likes again" particularly in a Hibs jersey

Thanks for your replies, I have enjoyed my wee trip down memory lane!

Finally like you my favourite part of the season was looking at the freed lists as well. At one time I would have known virtually every player in top couple of division by name and was always intrigued to see who was going where.

I guess that was my first clue that different people see the same players in a different light.

I would struggle now to name all the players on Hibs books.

NORTHERNHIBBY
10-08-2015, 12:09 PM
Now that Keith Harris has departed the scene, it is surely time for him and Tommy Craig to reprise their ventriloquist act. ?

Winston Ingram
10-08-2015, 12:19 PM
Don't think they were scared of hard work. Maybe the fact Collins was acting like a Greek God made the players think he was a bit of a roaster?

I do believe though that Collins had the right attitude towards work ethic. Just a shame his people skills were non existent and he signed some of the worst players we've had!

This.

jdships
10-08-2015, 12:49 PM
Interesting

I knew Jimmy Kerr

He was a member of Longniddry where I was also a member too as were Eddie Turnbull & Lawrie Reilly and Tommy Younger

I was lucky enough to play with Jimmy a couple of times and this would be late 70's early 80's and he was a lovely humble guy.

I didn't play with Lawrie or Eddie but knew them and in particular Eddie to speak to.

I suppose the worlds a different place now, but I come from a long line of Hibs supporters and getting to meet and speak to guys who were heroes to my father and I was a great thrill.

There's a huge disconnect now between footballers and supporters, although other than at OF level in Scotland, they aren't on huge money but they just seem so much more remote than their forebears even though they aren't in remotely the same class of player.

I was luck enough to be invited to a dinner at Archerfield 3 or 4 months back and was sat beside Tommy Younger's son who is one of their Exec's, I kind of knew him through Longniddry also but only vaguely.

We got talking about his Dad's regular trips back from National Service to play for Hibs (way before my time, but I knew this from Hibs books I have) and I couldn't remember his nickname "Offenbach"

In the modern day cult of nothing celebrity's these guys and the Tornadoes were really something.

To paraphrase "Flower of Scotland" When will we see their likes again" particularly in a Hibs jersey

Thanks for your replies, I have enjoyed my wee trip down memory lane!

Finally like you my favourite part of the season was looking at the freed lists as well. At one time I would have known virtually every player in top couple of division by name and was always intrigued to see who was going where.

I guess that was my first clue that different people see the same players in a different light.

I would struggle now to name all the players on Hibs books.


:top marks
Like you have enjoyed the " trip down memory lane - thanks again
As you quite rightly say it is now almost impossible to get to know " footballers" personally
Since Tommy P passed away don't have a close contact at ER
Given it's now 75 years sincle uncle David took me to HibsV Rangers in December 1940 and as the years roll by it is becoming invcreasingly unlikely that I will see Hibs lift the Scottish Cup .
Have enjoyed what has been the roller coaster ride to end all roller coaster rides following Hibernian FC:greengrin
Keep well and keep " dreaming the dream"

Evergreen86
10-08-2015, 01:04 PM
Seems Jamie McCluskey is not a fan of JC either.... 'In the top one of the worst people Ive met in football! Great player doesnt make you a great person as everybody knows now

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 02:03 PM
:top marks
Like you have enjoyed the " trip down memory lane - thanks again
As you quite rightly say it is now almost impossible to get to know " footballers" personally
Since Tommy P passed away don't have a close contact at ER
Given it's now 75 years sincle uncle David took me to HibsV Rangers in December 1940 and as the years roll by it is becoming invcreasingly unlikely that I will see Hibs lift the Scottish Cup .
Have enjoyed what has been the roller coaster ride to end all roller coaster rides following Hibernian FC:greengrin
Keep well and keep " dreaming the dream"

You too take care of yourself!

I know I went beforehand but the first game I really remember is Joe Baker's return v Aberdeen

Joe was wearing white boots and scored pronto!

The good times have far outweighed the bad, both my children have grown up watching and supporting Hibs and even if like you I don't see them win the cup, hope springs eternal that they will.

My dad died in 2004 and the closest I have felt to him since was when we won the league cup in 2007

Hibs mean so much to so many people. I wonder if many of the current officials and players at ER recognise or even care to what extent that is the truth.

GGTTH

Shrekko
10-08-2015, 02:53 PM
For the record
Played for the Hibs
My Uncle 1920/30
Cousin 1950's
Cousin 1960/70
Cousin's son 1990
do 2012/14
do 2012/14

Played for Liverpool
Billy Liddel 1940's
Relation thro' marriage
2nd Cousin 1970's

That answer your quetion :greengrin

C'mon jdships- you've been claiming you've got 'boys' at East Mains for as far back as I can recall- not just since 2012! Still no explanation as to the apparent gap during JC's tenure...

Danderhall Hibs
10-08-2015, 03:53 PM
Seems Jamie McCluskey is not a fan of JC either.... 'In the top one of the worst people Ive met in football! Great player doesnt make you a great person as everybody knows now

]Mcluskey as well? Really convincing argument being made now.

liamh2202
10-08-2015, 04:09 PM
]Mcluskey as well? Really convincing argument being made now.

All 'a' listers lol

JimBHibees
10-08-2015, 04:34 PM
]Mcluskey as well? Really convincing argument being made now.

:faf:

Baldy Foghorn
10-08-2015, 04:39 PM
Given what he did in the game, he can say what he wants.... Last Manager to win a trophy with us, don't understand the stick he gets......

Pete
10-08-2015, 04:48 PM
Given what he did in the game, he can say what he wants.... Last Manager to win a trophy with us, don't understand the stick he gets......

Classic six-pack envy. I feel his pain.

NAE NOOKIE
10-08-2015, 04:58 PM
Given what he did in the game, he can say what he wants.... Last Manager to win a trophy with us, don't understand the stick he gets......

I'm the opposite ....... I don't understand the way some folk rate him as a Hibs manager. The team that won the League cup was as much down to Mowbray as Collins, and as I said before, he was the manager who couldn't get that wonderful team through two games against first division Dunfermline and into a cup final we would have had a decent chance of actually winning. Its pretty clear that his man management was abysmal and that's a big part of a managers job. He might not have been a quitter on the pitch, but as far as I'm concerned he was as a manager. As for his record as a player giving him a right to say what he wants .... I suppose so, but he wont be the first player with a great record to come out with a load of utter bollox once they have hung up their boots.

Baldy Foghorn
10-08-2015, 05:06 PM
I'm the opposite ....... I don't understand the way some folk rate him as a Hibs manager. The team that won the League cup was as much down to Mowbray as Collins, and as I said before, he was the manager who couldn't get that wonderful team through two games against first division Dunfermline and into a cup final we would have had a decent chance of actually winning. Its pretty clear that his man management was abysmal and that's a big part of a managers job. He might not have been a quitter on the pitch, but as far as I'm concerned he was as a manager. As for his record as a player giving him a right to say what he wants .... I suppose so, but he wont be the first player with a great record to come out with a load of utter bollox once they have hung up their boots.

A quitter as Manager? Not from what I remember, let's not forget the part RP played in JC's tenure....

Pretty Boy
10-08-2015, 05:18 PM
I always find it hard to assess Collins.

Obviously as a cup winning manager he deserves a bit respect, a courtesy not often afforded to Alex Miller btw who coached at a far higher level than Collins has thus far, but there were plenty low points as well. He managed the Brown/Thomson fiasco poorly and ironically one of the biggest criticisms of his team towards the end of his tenure was that the team wasn't fit enough (although I think this is often a go to excuse when a team is playing poorly. He signed badly, ok he was working on a reduced budget but was the money spent on an untried goalkeeper given what had gone before really the best use of a chunk of the budget? A lot is often made of the performance against Ranger when we won 1-0 at Ibrox, it was superb. Sadly after that we lost our next 2 game against Motherwell and St Mirren and drew with Hearts, beat Gretna on 10 November then failed win again until 18 January (8 games) when we beat ICT and Collins was gone.

His comments about the level of the SPFL are not really on, especially given Celtic are every bit as much a contributing factor as the other teams. Ok so he was a good player who played abroad and mid table in England (and achieved less than say Paul Lambert, Graeme Souness, Alan Hansen or Darren Fletcher and his English career was at a similar level to Robert Snodgrass, Graham Dorrans, Steven Whittaker etc) but I don't think that gives him the right to lay into guys earning a fraction of what the Celtic 1st team squad are, many of who are undoubtedly good, honest professionals.

Pete
10-08-2015, 05:19 PM
I'm the opposite ....... I don't understand the way some folk rate him as a Hibs manager. The team that won the League cup was as much down to Mowbray as Collins, and as I said before, he was the manager who couldn't get that wonderful team through two games against first division Dunfermline and into a cup final we would have had a decent chance of actually winning. Its pretty clear that his man management was abysmal and that's a big part of a managers job. He might not have been a quitter on the pitch, but as far as I'm concerned he was as a manager. As for his record as a player giving him a right to say what he wants .... I suppose so, but he wont be the first player with a great record to come out with a load of utter bollox once they have hung up their boots.

Dunfermline were in the top flight. :greengrin

Kojock
10-08-2015, 05:48 PM
Given what he did in the game, he can say what he wants.... Last Manager to win a trophy with us, don't understand the stick he gets......

As a player maybe. As a manager his record is pretty poor.
Hibs win ratio 42% Charleroi win ratio 38% then a year as DOF at Livi. Not exactly a "say what he wants" managerial career. The guy is so full of his own importance and his arrogance is beyond belief. If he was a good manager he would be a manager in his own right.

Kojock
10-08-2015, 05:54 PM
A quitter as Manager? Not from what I remember, let's not forget the part RP played in JC's tenure....

Don't agree with the way the players went about it, or RPs subsequent actions, but there was obviously significant unrest to merit their actions.

bill the hibby
10-08-2015, 06:19 PM
As a player maybe. As a manager his record is pretty poor.
Hibs win ratio 42% Charleroi win ratio 38% then a year as DOF at Livi. Not exactly a "say what he wants" managerial career. The guy is so full of his own importance and his arrogance is beyond belief. If he was a good manager he would be a manager in his own right.

42% isn't that bad at all compared to what we've had to suffer since

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 06:32 PM
Of the fact that Collins is an arrogant and pretty brainless git with some of his actions and words I don't think there is any doubt.

However those players rounding on him will have similar to the effect Dennis Healey once described a barbed comment from Geoffrey Howe as "like being savaged by a dead sheep"

They are nobodies and all Collins has to do is say show me your medals or your caps and they are blown out the water.

Ironically, given our current circumstances, in the early days of his tenure I thought he instilled a bit of much needed steel into Mowbray's team which was always prone to bottling it.

I personally don't have any doubt that Mowbray's team would have lost to St Johnstone in the Semi at *********** and for that reason alone Collins must go down as a limited success as Hibs Manager.

The Pub team quarter final of that cup? (the 81% game) and the final itself were two of the best performances from any Hibs team I have seen since the Tornadoes and despite his poor signings and his chucking it I think he is judged far more harshly by Hibs fans over his time here than he deserves.

Pretty Boy
10-08-2015, 06:42 PM
Of the fact that Collins is an arrogant and pretty brainless git with some of his actions and words I don't think there is any doubt.

However those players rounding on him will have similar to the effect Dennis Healey once described a barbed comment from Geoffrey Howe as "like being savaged by a dead sheep"

They are nobodies and all Collins has to do is say show me your medals or your caps and they are blown out the water.

Ironically, given our current circumstances, in the early days of his tenure I thought he instilled a bit of much needed steel into Mowbray's team which was always prone to bottling it.

I personally don't have any doubt that Mowbray's team would have lost to St Johnstone in the Semi at *********** and for that reason alone Collins must go down as a limited success as Hibs Manager.

The Pub team quarter final of that cup? (the 81% game) and the final itself were two of the best performances from any Hibs team I have seen since the Tornadoes and despite his poor signings and his chucking it I think he is judged far more harshly by Hibs fans over his time here than he deserves.

His medals?

He won 2 major trophies in his playing career. A Scottish Cup and a Ligue 1 title. Whilst better than McManus et all it's hardly an embarrassment of riches that gives him the right to show contempt to fellow pros in the way he has done in the last few days.

Kojock
10-08-2015, 06:52 PM
42% isn't that bad at all compared to what we've had to suffer since

He has only managed two teams in his own right over a period of 2 1/2 to 3 years. Nobody is doubting his ability as a player, what is being questioned is his man management skills and the fact that he is full of his own importance is the reason he will never have a notable managerial career.

Jonnyboy
10-08-2015, 07:01 PM
:top marks
Like you have enjoyed the " trip down memory lane - thanks again
As you quite rightly say it is now almost impossible to get to know " footballers" personally
Since Tommy P passed away don't have a close contact at ER
Given it's now 75 years sincle uncle David took me to HibsV Rangers in December 1940 and as the years roll by it is becoming invcreasingly unlikely that I will see Hibs lift the Scottish Cup .
Have enjoyed what has been the roller coaster ride to end all roller coaster rides following Hibernian FC:greengrin
Keep well and keep " dreaming the dream"

Could it have been this one? http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/game.php?gameid=82224 Oh and were you at the 8-1 game? http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/game.php?gameid=82474 :greengrin

Kavinho
10-08-2015, 07:07 PM
When you take all the faux indignation out of it, I think what he said is actually fairly accurate, all be it disrespectful.

Yes they do Hoover up the best of the rest,

but in rare league games when they are in need, they do more times then not, push on & press up the pitch and leave gaps which ultimately, they rarely get punished for.


....when they try that in European games, they can look very naive.



hope Malmo pump them.

Quite often a few years after we've been derided for taking a horsing, the team that pumped us turns up at ridiculously high levels
ref Dnipro in the cup final, and Malmö in the CL group stages.

another Scottish team taking a pumping, or a team that has beaten us doing well helps rebalance a warped view of our results. (Maybe just for me!)

jdships
10-08-2015, 07:12 PM
C'mon jdships- you've been claiming you've got 'boys' at East Mains for as far back as I can recall- not just since 2012! Still no explanation as to the apparent gap during JC's tenure...

Yes you are quite right and my sincere apologies I got my dates mixed up it should have been 2005 to 2008 when r my two lads were at ER and 2010 to 12 they were friends of mines boys and well known to me
I plead an age defence being in my 84th year :hibees
For what its worth I have met many boys who have been with Hibs , and their parents , since 2006. This mostly thro' my close friendship with Tam Preston .
Trust that is an acceptable answer :greengrin:wink:

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 07:24 PM
His medals?

He won 2 major trophies in his playing career. A Scottish Cup and a Ligue 1 title. Whilst better than McManus et all it's hardly an embarrassment of riches that gives him the right to show contempt to fellow pros in the way he has done in the last few days.

I thought I had made it clear that I accepted he was arrogant and brainless and whilst I haven't even bothered to read them I am told his comments are crass.

Medals apart his playing career both domestically and internationally is light years apart from any of his current detractors and I am sure he isn't losing too much sleep over their view of him.

If you wanted to be cynical you could position it that those ill advised comments were a way of getting the media to focus on Celtic again after the Scott Allan media fest that has enveloped The Rangers

jdships
10-08-2015, 08:34 PM
Could it have been this one? http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/game.php?gameid=82224 Oh and were you at the 8-1 game? http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/game.php?gameid=82474 :greengrin

V Rangers Jock Cuthbertson scored the winning goal December 1940 and Jimmy Kerr gave me an old jersey as a keepsake after the game !
I was 8 years old and uncle did not take me every week ( mydad was away at the War ) so don't remember if I was at the game you mention.

Happy days !!

Jonnyboy
10-08-2015, 09:05 PM
V Rangers Jock Cuthbertson scored the winning goal December 1940 and Jimmy Kerr gave me an old jersey as a keepsake after the game !
I was 8 years old and uncle did not take me every week ( mydad was away at the War ) so don't remember if I was at the game you mention.

Happy days !!

Indeed :agree:

Shrekko
10-08-2015, 09:11 PM
Yes you are quite right and my sincere apologies I got my dates mixed up it should have been 2005 to 2008 when r my two lads were at ER and 2010 to 12 they were friends of mines boys and well known to me
I plead an age defence being in my 84th year :hibees
For what its worth I have met many boys who have been with Hibs , and their parents , since 2006. This mostly thro' my close friendship with Tam Preston .
Trust that is an acceptable answer :greengrin:wink:

Absolutely!

:flag:

BSEJVT
10-08-2015, 09:15 PM
V Rangers Jock Cuthbertson scored the winning goal December 1940 and Jimmy Kerr gave me an old jersey as a keepsake after the game !
I was 8 years old and uncle did not take me every week ( mydad was away at the War ) so don't remember if I was at the game you mention.

Happy days !!

Another coincidence

My folks met Johnny and his wife whose name escapes for the moment (Nancy maybe?) and became friendly with them in the late 60's early 70's

Its a long old time ago now but I think they were down in Morpeth or Harrogate (was he is the Civil Service and he died down there?)

When she moved back it was to Mountcastle and my folks helped her settle in.

I remember playing rounders with him in Banchory park which was where I think we met them.

I would only be about 8 or 9 then and the significance of who he was was lost on me.

NAE NOOKIE
10-08-2015, 09:27 PM
Dunfermline were in the top flight. :greengrinSo they were ....... I always get mixed up with that one, by the time they played the cup final I'm pretty sure they had been relegated though.