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Forza Fred
08-08-2015, 11:39 PM
After the Rangers game some of us questioned our fitness levels.

Views were as one expects on a forum like ours, mixed.

We have now recently played the team many expect to finish top...and the team of part timers some expect to finish close to bottom.

I asked a question with ten minutes to go yesterday concerning how our fitness levels appeared comparative to Dumbarton's....it went unanswered,probably cos most people were searching for rusty razor blades
So to anyone who saw the game...ability wise aside.....as the game word on, did we look noticeably fitter than our part time opponents in your opinion?

Serious question.

Sir David Gray
08-08-2015, 11:49 PM
I don't necessarily think we struggled for fitness, I just don't think we were very good.

Ozyhibby
08-08-2015, 11:52 PM
Right now you have to say that the whole George Craig regime has to be questioned.

Big_Franck
09-08-2015, 12:24 AM
Right now you have to say that the whole George Craig regime has to be questioned.

Bit of an overreaction is that not? Let's see where we are after half a dozen games.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-08-2015, 12:56 AM
Right now you have to say that the whole George Craig regime has to be questioned.

Ffs

Ozyhibby
09-08-2015, 01:02 AM
Bit of an overreaction is that not? Let's see where we are after half a dozen games.

After half a dozen games last year we were out of contention.
Fact is we are losing against part time teams despite us paying for sports scientists, fitness coaches, recruitment professionals etc. and every single part of it seems to be failing.
It's a disgrace but hey, at least the communication with fans is better.

Velma Dinkley
09-08-2015, 01:45 AM
Lol

bingo70
09-08-2015, 05:17 AM
After half a dozen games last year we were out of contention.
Fact is we are losing against part time teams despite us paying for sports scientists, fitness coaches, recruitment professionals etc. and every single part of it seems to be failing.
It's a disgrace but hey, at least the communication with fans is better.

I would say it's fair to question it.

Another thing that's concerned me is this all new singing and dancing scouting network that he was putting together. Despite this he couldn't get s better keeper than Oxley and managed to find one player from out with Scotland.

I hate how much I'm using hearts as an example but they're discovering players from all over the world, that's what I was expecting from this new set up.

Greenworld
09-08-2015, 07:15 AM
Our fitness levels are atrocious you are correct to mention hearts they are clearly doing something right.
I remember stubbs saying the in all day hearts methods were not for him well maybe he should look again.
For what its worth I still think hibs will finish Second in the league and loose in the play offs again ( its what we do )

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

coldingham hibs
09-08-2015, 07:24 AM
Not sure if fitness is an issue but we do appear to lack sharpness all over the park. I was concerned at the level of performance against Dunfermline pre-season where we looked way off the pace and looked like a team that hadn't played together before.

I would have anticipated a lot of work being put in after that game as the short comings were clearly evident & worrying.

Fortunately I cannot comment on the games since as I have not attended any but by all accounts we seem to be in the same position.

For me it is important during pre-season to test yourself against teams of a much higher standard in order to identify what parts of the team require attention, our pre-season consisted of teams who were way below (or should have been) our level.

Baldy Foghorn
09-08-2015, 08:32 AM
Right now you have to say that the whole George Craig regime has to be questioned.

Total drivel......

Ozyhibby
09-08-2015, 08:35 AM
Total drivel......

What do you think the problem is?

GlasgowHibee
09-08-2015, 08:38 AM
I think the fitness levels are fine, it's the desire that needs to be questioned. What good are decent fitness levels if you're not going to go that extra 10% to steal the ball from your opponent.

Baldy Foghorn
09-08-2015, 08:40 AM
Total drivel......

We haven't seen our best 11 yet, we haven't been creating much, and have shipped silly goals....Let's not lay the blame at GC or the fitness coaches eh....

Smartie
09-08-2015, 08:48 AM
I think the fitness levels are fine, it's the desire that needs to be questioned. What good are decent fitness levels if you're not going to go that extra 10% to steal the ball from your opponent.

There may be something in this.

There was a point during the second half when we won a corner on our right, there was maybe abut 10 minutes to go.

We had one guy (who had won the corner) out at the corner and one guy in the box. All our other players were casually ambling up the park to get in position. We were 2-1 down against a pet-time team ffs, at least they could/should have the fitness and desire to push on a bit at that stage.

I couldn't work out if it was because they were knackered or didn't want it enough but there really seemed to be something badly wrong with us yesterday.

I can't put my finger on it. The Allan episode, fitness, desire, pessimism after what happened l last season, I don't know. But there's something just "not right".

stubru59
09-08-2015, 09:53 AM
The development of sport science over the past 20 years means even part-time teams are able to attain fitness levels comparable to full time timers.

Being full time allows (or should allow) players to work on the technical aspects of their game. So, in theory, a decent full time team should be able to retain possession for longer, thus forcing the opposition to work harder and tire more quickly. At least, that's the theory.

It doesn't take into account a whole gambit of things like attitude, ability, tactics, unforced errors, or the will to win. Our game yesterday seems to suggest a number of those factors were at work.
They need fixed, and soon.

GreenLake
09-08-2015, 10:25 AM
The main failing in fitness for some I suspect will be due to inappropriate nutrition and lifestyle for a professional athlete. Build a big dorm at East Mains, force feed them and put the lights out at 10pm. :greengrin

Eyrie
09-08-2015, 10:40 AM
What do you think the problem is?
You're saying the problem is the new structure, yet that is an approach used by many clubs now in many different sports.

Do you mean that the problem is we're implementing it badly?

bingo70
09-08-2015, 10:46 AM
You're saying the problem is the new structure, yet that is an approach used by many clubs now in many different sports.

Do you mean that the problem is we're implementing it badly?

If other teams are getting success from the same model we will at some point need to look at what we're doing differently to them if things don't improve. Obviously it's still early days and I don't think anybody is suggesting we empty George Craig, dempster or Stubbs but given how poorly prepared we seem to be I don't think it's that unreasonable to question it at this stage.

Pretty Boy
09-08-2015, 11:00 AM
I think some are confusing fitness with tempo.

I don't think we looked unfit yesterday, we were just slow and ponderous. There was a point yesterday when Fyvie had the ball about 35 yards from goal, 5 Hibs players were stood in a row on the 18 yard line, no movement from any of them, Fyvie held the ball for about 30 seconds then had to turn and pass the ball back to our own centre half because there was no forward option.

Situations like that weren't uncommon so all the pace was taken from our game. Players were still chasing, and beating Dumbarton players, to the ball well into the last 10 minutes. It wasn't a fitness problem that cost us yesterday, it was a poor performance all round couple with individual errors.

Heedersnvolleys
09-08-2015, 11:05 AM
The development of sport science over the past 20 years means even part-time teams are able to attain fitness levels comparable to full time timers.

Being full time allows (or should allow) players to work on the technical aspects of their game. So, in theory, a decent full time team should be able to retain possession for longer, thus forcing the opposition to work harder and tire more quickly. At least, that's the theory.

It doesn't take into account a whole gambit of things like attitude, ability, tactics, unforced errors, or the will to win. Our game yesterday seems to suggest a number of those factors were at work.
They need fixed, and soon.
Sorry but I don't think that is true. If anything sport science makes the gulf wider. The main advances in sports science is in recovery so athletes can train hard 3, 4 days in a row and if done right stil be fresh for match day. If I remember rightly Ian Murray said Dumbarton train on a quarter of a pitch on a Tuesday and get a full pitch for an hour on a Thursday. If you have been to EM we should be out of site fitness wise against these part time teams.
What I will say though if these part time players are hungry enough and are given the correct advice they could make some of the fitness up in there own time.

Scorrie
09-08-2015, 11:13 AM
Assuming our fitness is comparible to other teams (that Dutch guy recently cast a bit of doubt on that...) then we have serious problems with desire and motivation. Some of our players just can't seem bothered, a number of posters have mentioned our lack of urgency yesterday

Blaster
09-08-2015, 11:21 AM
Assuming our fitness is comparible to other teams (that Dutch guy recently cast a bit of doubt on that...) then we have serious problems with desire and motivation. Some of our players just can't seem bothered, a number of posters have mentioned our lack of urgency yesterday

Spot on mate. Key word there is desire. Fitness and skill can take you so far but you need the desire more than anything. Desire can fill the gap between average players and skilful ones

stubru59
09-08-2015, 11:42 AM
Sorry but I don't think that is true. If anything sport science makes the gulf wider. The main advances in sports science is in recovery so athletes can train hard 3, 4 days in a row and if done right stil be fresh for match day. If I remember rightly Ian Murray said Dumbarton train on a quarter of a pitch on a Tuesday and get a full pitch for an hour on a Thursday. If you have been to EM we should be out of site fitness wise against these part time teams.
What I will say though if these part time players are hungry enough and are given the correct advice they could make some of the fitness up in there own time.

That was basically my point. The other factors I mentioned can be corrected by what we do.

Hamish
09-08-2015, 02:59 PM
They were in for training at 9 this morning.

blackpoolhibs
09-08-2015, 03:03 PM
They were in for training at 9 this morning.


Aye but they had Saturday off.

HibbyRod
09-08-2015, 03:13 PM
Aye but they had Saturday off.

:greengrin Thanks for the laugh BH.

HappyAsHellas
09-08-2015, 03:14 PM
Our fitness levels are atrocious you are correct to mention hearts they are clearly doing something right.
I remember stubbs saying the in all day hearts methods were not for him well maybe he should look again.
For what its worth I still think hibs will finish Second in the league and loose in the play offs again ( its what we do )

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

You can develop youth or try bringing in untested foreigners who haven't made it at a good level. They have brought in foreigners, all over six foot and it may work or it may go pear shaped. It's not a good system for continuity or the long term. We seem to be relying on more home grown youth which I believe will benefit us long term. Still doesn't mean we should lose to the likes of Dumbarton though.

liamh2202
09-08-2015, 03:17 PM
You can develop youth or try bringing in untested foreigners who haven't made it at a good level. They have brought in foreigners, all over six foot and it may work or it may go pear shaped. It's not a good system for continuity or the long term. We seem to be relying on more home grown youth which I believe will benefit us long term. Still doesn't mean we should lose to the likes of Dumbarton though.

You can't accuse them of not bringing through youth players recently

blackpoolhibs
09-08-2015, 03:21 PM
You can develop youth or try bringing in untested foreigners who haven't made it at a good level. They have brought in foreigners, all over six foot and it may work or it may go pear shaped. It's not a good system for continuity or the long term. We seem to be relying on more home grown youth which I believe will benefit us long term. Still doesn't mean we should lose to the likes of Dumbarton though.


Are you not a wee bit fed up of long term, new stands, new training ground youth team development, all great for the long term.

I'd like a bit of now time, and have said so for the last 8 years or so give or take one season.

With Hibs its always jam tomorrow. :rolleyes:

Haymaker
09-08-2015, 03:28 PM
I think some are confusing fitness with tempo.

.

Yes and no. Tempo can be dictated by fitness levels, a fully fit side in top condition should be able to play a higher tempo on both sides of the ball. An unfit or over trained team tends to be slower as they are not in peak condition.


However, we could just be seeing the players following Stubbs orders and he wants a slow tempo game? :dunno:

Franck Stanton
09-08-2015, 04:19 PM
Aye but they had Saturday off.


LOL [if I didn't laugh I'd probably greet] Still brought a wee smile to my grumpy auld mug.

Thecat23
09-08-2015, 04:23 PM
You can develop youth or try bringing in untested foreigners who haven't made it at a good level. They have brought in foreigners, all over six foot and it may work or it may go pear shaped. It's not a good system for continuity or the long term. We seem to be relying on more home grown youth which I believe will benefit us long term. Still doesn't mean we should lose to the likes of Dumbarton though.

The sad part is our youth players who have broke through are struggling to even get a game at this level. Harris, Stanton and Handling all told if they found a club they could go. Gone are the days of Browns, Thomsons, O'Connors!

Hearts have brought through some very good players past couple of years and they seem to be doing well.

SquashedFrogg
09-08-2015, 04:48 PM
Are you not a wee bit fed up of long term, new stands, new training ground youth team development, all great for the long term.

I'd like a bit of now time, and have said so for the last 8 years or so give or take one season.

With Hibs its always jam tomorrow. :rolleyes:

I'm with this. Long term is satisfying and good to know but crowds are dwindling through lack of 'now time'...

We need something now to get bums on seats, people excited and bring some success

Ronniekirk
09-08-2015, 04:50 PM
The sad part is our youth players who have broke through are struggling to even get a game at this level. Harris, Stanton and Handling all told if they found a club they could go. Gone are the days of Browns, Thomsons, O'Connors!

Hearts have brought through some very good players past couple of years and they seem to be doing well.

And those players were brought through without a state of the art training centre , but clearly we had scouts with an eye for a player ,and someone was doing something right in coaching them .
It's interesting hearts can even get interest in young players that can't hold down a first team place from English Clubs .That has to be an indication they are doing something right .
But Stubbs isn't responsible for the three latest young players you mention ,but clearly he is of the view they aren't ready to improve us ,which given yeserdays performance is a sad indictment .i know Stanton got on but once Boyle Carmicahel Keatings and Mcginn are match fit it's hard to see Sam getting a lot of game time and Harris appears to have had his opportunity and now not getting picked.

Martin at least looks like he has potential and let's hope their are a few more in current development squad that could be starting to be ready to push for inclusion by end of season

GreenArmyyy!
09-08-2015, 05:57 PM
Right now you have to say that the whole George Craig regime has to be questioned.

Trawled through a lot and this is the second worst comment in the last 24 hours, congratulations.

Billy Whizz
09-08-2015, 05:58 PM
Trawled through a lot and this is the second worst comment in the last 24 hours, congratulations.

What is the worst

GreenArmyyy!
09-08-2015, 07:57 PM
What is the worst

Someone saying the clock is ticking on Stubbs time at Hibs.

Stuarty27
09-08-2015, 08:15 PM
Someone saying the clock is ticking on Stubbs time at Hibs.

tick tock :greengrin

Greenworld
09-08-2015, 08:18 PM
Of course it is he was a risk appointment no different to others u would have to be insane not to ask the question is he doing the right things

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J-C
10-08-2015, 02:01 PM
We can give Stubbs last year but so far we have to question a good few things. Pre season looks to be a worry with a lack of preparation, signings while looking decent also have to be questioned re injuries to almost all of them. Tactics have a big question mark too, formations and subs all random at times.

worcesterhibby
10-08-2015, 02:44 PM
I think Hibs were caught between a rock and a hard place on Saturday. Stubbs knows that teams like Dumbarton will sit deep against us and try to hit on the break, so he is know doubt telling his players to be patient, work the ball about, probe for opportunities "and the goals will come". That "patience" seems to have developed into a slow tempo, leaving players a bit static and opportunities few and far between. Rangers seemed to have adopted a much more aggressive approach, similar to the way hearts played against lesser opposition last year, going at them with pace and aggression. We all want to see the ball passed and we sure as hell don't want to see Butcher like tactics, but the balance just isn't right at the moment.

The sooner we have a fully fit Boyle and Carmichael on the field to inject a bit of pace the better. We also need more players who are actually happy to run with the ball and beat a man. Plus a forward to will aggressively challenge for the ball in the box and get in front of his marker. Stevenson has had plenty of grief for his delivery, but too often no one comes to the front post and tries to get to the ball first, so it looks like his crosses 'Never beat the first man" Dom and Cummings just seem to like to stand in the box and hope it will fall for them. run diagonally and get across in front of your man !! jeez it's not rocket science.

Jones28
10-08-2015, 04:16 PM
What do you think the problem is?

A teaming having a collective off day is obviously far too simple for Hibs.net

ancient hibee
10-08-2015, 04:26 PM
I think Hibs were caught between a rock and a hard place on Saturday. Stubbs knows that teams like Dumbarton will sit deep against us and try to hit on the break, so he is know doubt telling his players to be patient, work the ball about, probe for opportunities "and the goals will come". That "patience" seems to have developed into a slow tempo, leaving players a bit static and opportunities few and far between. Rangers seemed to have adopted a much more aggressive approach, similar to the way hearts played against lesser opposition last year, going at them with pace and aggression. We all want to see the ball passed and we sure as hell don't want to see Butcher like tactics, but the balance just isn't right at the moment.

The sooner we have a fully fit Boyle and Carmichael on the field to inject a bit of pace the better. We also need more players who are actually happy to run with the ball and beat a man. Plus a forward to will aggressively challenge for the ball in the box and get in front of his marker. Stevenson has had plenty of grief for his delivery, but too often no one comes to the front post and tries to get to the ball first, so it looks like his crosses 'Never beat the first man" Dom and Cummings just seem to like to stand in the box and hope it will fall for them. run diagonally and get across in front of your man !! jeez it's not rocket science.

I've no doubt that your first para re Stubbs is right and it also is what is wrong.If we were in the EPL that would be the right way to play but in the second tier of Scottish football the right way is to apply pressure and get the ball into the opposing penalty as quickly and as often as possible.Then the goals come.

Forza Fred
10-08-2015, 08:43 PM
I've no doubt that your first para re Stubbs is right and it also is what is wrong.If we were in the EPL that would be the right way to play but in the second tier of Scottish football the right way is to apply pressure and get the ball into the opposing penalty as quickly and as often as possible.Then the goals come.

I think that is the tactics teams employ against US! :wink:

Shanksaidno
10-08-2015, 08:50 PM
Clock is ticking for Stubbs.. . Time out if we do not get promotion by hook or crook this season ... He knows that!

Baldy Foghorn
10-08-2015, 08:59 PM
Clock is ticking for Stubbs.. . Time out if we do not get promotion by hook or crook this season ... He knows that!

Point of him signing a contract extension was.................??