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Wheat Hound
08-08-2015, 07:25 PM
Our lack of defensive options is one of several concerns to me. With Forster out injured, we have no other centre halves at all. Even at full back, other than untried laddies. Even discounting the lack of cover for injuries, there is no competition for places. Fontaine and Hanlon looked off the pace and had no urgency about their play. Both Gray and Stevenson were likewise pale shadows of their performances last season. We need at least two defenders in soon in my opinion.

As for Goalkeeper, Oxley inspires zero confidence and his ratio of goals conceded to shots is terrible. Not sure Reguero is the answer but he deserves a shot.

Ringothedog
08-08-2015, 07:28 PM
Our lack of defensive options is one of several concerns to me. With Forster out injured, we have no other centre halves at all. Even at full back, other than untried laddies. Even discounting the lack of cover for injuries, there is no competition for places. Fontaine and Hanlon looked off the pace and had no urgency about their play. Both Gray and Stevenson were likewise pale shadows of their performances last season. We need at least two defenders in soon in my opinion.

As for Goalkeeper, Oxley inspires zero confidence and his ratio of goals conceded to shots is terrible. Not sure Reguero is the answer but he deserves a shot.

We will continue to struggle as long as we have Oxley, Stevenson and hanlon in the team. They are just not good enough.

PISTOL1875
08-08-2015, 07:37 PM
We will continue to struggle as long as we have Oxley, Stevenson and hanlon in the team. They are just not good enough.

You're bang on mate.. Oxley is bogging where Hanlon is never a centre half.. Far too weak and bullied by bigger and stronger forwards.. Stevenson tries his best and is a nice guy but that's the problem.. He's been there over the years and suffered a relegation.. Just not good enough I am afraid..

SteveHFC
08-08-2015, 07:56 PM
Defence hase been awful for the last 2 weeks.

Hermit Crab
08-08-2015, 08:02 PM
As long as oxley is in goals and Stevenson is at left back we are going to concede goals every week. I still can't get over how horrendous oxleys keeping was today for the goals. I think we will lose more games this season than we did last season.

Not In The Know
08-08-2015, 08:14 PM
I find it hard to criticise Stevenson as he has been one of our better players for the last few seasons. But the other common denominator linked to our piss poor defenice is Paul hanlon. Stats don't lie. his whole Hibs career has coincided with us losing soft goals.

theonlywayisup
08-08-2015, 08:18 PM
I'm thinking the Fontaine / Hanlon pairing doesn't work. I've always had a problem with two left sided centre halfs.

Ringothedog
08-08-2015, 08:26 PM
I'm thinking the Fontaine / Hanlon pairing doesn't work. I've always had a problem with two left sided centre halfs.

The opposition don't.

PISTOL1875
08-08-2015, 08:33 PM
Paul Hanlon has not improved as a player in the last 5 years.. He is stuck a level and doesn't seem to be pushing on from it.. Maybe it is time we sold him.

Ringothedog
08-08-2015, 08:34 PM
I find it hard to criticise Stevenson as he has been one of our better players for the last few seasons. But the other common denominator linked to our piss poor defenice is Paul hanlon. Stats don't lie. his whole Hibs career has coincided with us losing soft goals.

Every team plays on Stevenson. They know he is a weak link. Going forward his crossing/passing is abysmal. One good pass or cross in a game does not make him a good player, giving plenty of effort does not make him a good player. Hanlon is terrible on the ground and when someone runs at him, he gets bullied off the ball, he is just too "nice". Oxley does not inspire confidence and so far is culpable for at least 5 of the goals we have lost this season.

Del Boy
08-08-2015, 09:13 PM
Hanlon is just a very average defender. But we seem to accept that.

Would he get a game in the premier league for another team? Not in my opinion.

We need better.

KWJ
08-08-2015, 09:32 PM
Some seriously knee jerk stuff here. Hanlon's decent in my view and we wouldn't have been relegated had he not been injured towards the end of the season.

Turnbull's Tornadoes had 2 left footed centre halfs.

Not huge on Oxley but we've had worse and the others in the league and many in Premiership aren't any better. Concede every week? It's the same back 5 that kept 16 clean sheets last season.

We all wanted to hit the ground running this season but if the fans get on top of our players like many of our last few years then we'll be scraping the barrel for confidence once again and in another rut.

DH1875
09-08-2015, 12:39 AM
Not huge on Oxley but we've had worse and the others in the league and many in Premiership aren't any better. Concede every week? It's the same back 5 that kept 16 clean sheets last season.


Really wish people would start getting over this. We were/are playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football FFS. Of course our defence was always gonna have a good record.

Brooster
09-08-2015, 06:06 AM
We will continue to struggle as long as we have Oxley, Stevenson and hanlon in the team. They are just not good enough.

Absolutely spot on. The 3 worst players on the pitch yesterday which is some accolade considering how bad some of the others were. Oxley is horrendous, I cant believe we couldnt find a better keeper. Hanlon never won a high ball all day despite being taller than his opponent and where do I begin with Stevenson?

B.H.F.C
09-08-2015, 06:09 AM
Absolutely spot on. The 3 worst players on the pitch yesterday which is some accolade considering how bad some of the others were. Oxley is horrendous, I cant believe we couldnt find a better keeper. Hanlon never won a high ball all day despite being taller than his opponent and where do I begin with Stevenson?

Hanlon got absolutely bullied today. Stevenson was just Stevenson. Oxley is a very, very poor goalie.

I thought Fyvie beat them all for being the worst on the park today though.

Brooster
09-08-2015, 06:20 AM
Hanlon got absolutely bullied today. Stevenson was just Stevenson. Oxley is a very, very poor goalie.

I thought Fyvie beat them all for being the worst on the park today though.

Yes. Fyvie, Gray and Fonts were very poor as well but we know they are capable of much more.

Kaiserclem
09-08-2015, 06:54 AM
Could not agree more on the original post. We basically have 4 defenders at the moment, and 5 when Forster is fit. Shocking and we have had all summer to fix this. No excuses if we want to "hit the ground running" as quoted. Hope we sign a centre half and left back this week but no doiubt will either be injured or 4 weeks away from match sharpness lol Synical, who me?

Thecat23
09-08-2015, 07:01 AM
Some seriously knee jerk stuff here. Hanlon's decent in my view and we wouldn't have been relegated had he not been injured towards the end of the season.

Turnbull's Tornadoes had 2 left footed centre halfs.

Not huge on Oxley but we've had worse and the others in the league and many in Premiership aren't any better. Concede every week? It's the same back 5 that kept 16 clean sheets last season.

We all wanted to hit the ground running this season but if the fans get on top of our players like many of our last few years then we'll be scraping the barrel for confidence once again and in another rut.

We would have 100% been relegated even with him back. One player doesn't make a team and Butcher's tactics sent us down.

Thecat23
09-08-2015, 07:03 AM
Hanlon got absolutely bullied today. Stevenson was just Stevenson. Oxley is a very, very poor goalie.

I thought Fyvie beat them all for being the worst on the park today though.

You have just said word for word what my mate said who was at the game. Said Fyvie was terrible. Hanlon and Stevenson very poor and he actually laughed when telling me about another one of Oxley's nightmares.

Borderhibbie76
09-08-2015, 07:28 AM
You have just said word for word what my mate said who was at the game. Said Fyvie was terrible. Hanlon and Stevenson very poor and he actually laughed when telling me about another one of Oxley's nightmares.

The fact we have lost 2 goals from direct free kicks in the first 3 matches concerns me...Oxley is frankly sh###. Even the header he saved in the first half...he pushes the ball right back into middle of 6 yard box...utterly dreadful keeper and I've no idea why Stubbs re-signed him tbh!! Hanlon was bullied all day by Craig of Dumbarton and Stevenson time and again when in good positions was wasteful. All 3 need replacing and fast! And your mate was right, Fyvie was very poor also..but tbh I'd struggle to give anyone pass marks. Worst match I've seen from Cummings also

coldingham hibs
09-08-2015, 07:41 AM
Defence starts from the forwards, with Malonga & Cummings we have no defence, both with poor work rate.

Midfield generally all over the place, slow & no closing down. It's embarrassing how easily we allow teams to play the ball about.

I've watched Hanlon ever since he broke into the team and I've never ever thought he was a competent centre back, far too weak. Fontaine & Gray living off the good performances last season & need to get the finger out.

Oxley, is a very poor keeper & should never have been given a contract. There must be better keepers out there costing less in wages.

Onion
09-08-2015, 07:44 AM
Hanlon is just a very average defender. But we seem to accept that.

Would he get a game in the premier league for another team? Not in my opinion.

We need better.

Don't disagree but average Hibs players should still be good enough to beat Dumbarton. The problem yesterday was much bigger than one or two players playing badly. Stubbs needs to take responsibility for that.

The Leith Dutch
10-08-2015, 10:54 AM
Defence isn't the problem.

Not saying it's great and yes it should be doing better given the quality of the opposition but the real problem is that we're not scoring anything like enough goals.

We shouldn't need to be worrying about keeping the opposition to 0 or 1 goal because we should be putting in 3 or 4 a game.
I'd much rather we didn't lose goals like the stupid ones we lost against Dumbarton but on our budget we will continue to lose daft goals because we're not going to get defenders who don't make mistakes.
Flipside is that for our budget we should comfortably have a team that can stick 3 or 4 past part timers which totally negates the daft goals we might lose.

We have plenty possession and create a good *number* of chances - they're just not good chances generally.
The style should be one or two nasty ball winners in midfield and the other 4 or 5 are guys who go at the opposition with purpose rather than trying to pass it into the net. One or more guys who can ping them from distance and a decent crosser of the ball would help a lot in keeping teams guessing rather than knowing we're going to try to pass our way through them.

Tom Hart RIP
10-08-2015, 11:01 AM
I wasn't at the game, but the guy on the Bounce who writes the Just Back Articlefor the St Pats website had Paul Hanlon as our man of the match.
It's all about opinions I suppose

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:04 AM
I wasn't at the game, but the guy on the Bounce who writes the Just Back Articlefor the St Pats website had Paul Hanlon as our man of the match.
It's all about opinions I suppose

Indeed. I was told he missed out on a couple of headers. So I guess that means bullied all day. Fontaine made a couple of howlers but we await the Fontaine thread. Always the same. Many fans just want CH's that just batter through players. If Hanlon is as poor as some on here think Im sure he will be first dropped with Forster is fit or the new CH joins. :wink:

carnoustiehibee
10-08-2015, 11:06 AM
Indeed. I was told he missed out on a couple of headers. So I guess that means bullied all day. Fontaine made a couple of howlers but we await the Fontaine thread. Always the same. Many fans just want CH's that just batter through players. If Hanlon is as poor as some on here think Im sure he will be first dropped with Forster is fit or the new CH joins. :wink:

Does your pager beep every time someone mentions Paul Hanlon on this forum?

BoomtownHibees
10-08-2015, 11:08 AM
Indeed. I was told he missed out on a couple of headers. So I guess that means bullied all day. Fontaine made a couple of howlers but we await the Fontaine thread. Always the same. Many fans just want CH's that just batter through players. If Hanlon is as poor as some on here think Im sure he will be first dropped with Forster is fit or the new CH joins. :wink:

You were told? So you weren't there? Why not listen to a poster (BHFC) that was at the game? There were more than a couple of headers that your mate Paul lost and Steven Craig bullied him all afternoon.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:17 AM
You were told? So you weren't there? Why not listen to a poster (BHFC) that was at the game? There were more than a couple of headers that your mate Paul lost and Steven Craig bullied him all afternoon.

Yep - I wasn't there. Same goes for the majority on the thread who put down every Hibs defeat to Hanlon or Stevenson. As ive said time after time. If he is as poor as some on here think (and I must watch a different player at Easter Rd) why is he never replaced, why is he pushed back in as soon as half fit?

In the first 30 v Rangers he was pretty much the best player on the park. Then he had to go back and cover the CH role and we lost all shape in midfield and got over powered on the flanks. Yet - this was a Hanlon issue according to some posters on here.

Again having watched the goals we conceded yesterday I fail to see which one was Hanlons fault? I'll happily discuss the mistakes he makes but how on earth can he be blamed for shipping two goals he wasn't involved in??

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:19 AM
Does your pager beep every time someone mentions Paul Hanlon on this forum?

Nah - ive tried to ignore the thread all weekend tbh. But I look forward to the examples of why PH is at fault for us losing two games.

Smartie
10-08-2015, 11:20 AM
I really like Hanlon as a player but he sometimes struggles in physical encounters.

On Saturday he was bullied by a guy that wasn't even that physical.

I thought he had a howler but he had a couple of moments when he looked decent (he dummied their forward nicely at one point) so I suppose if you want to focus on those moments you could give him motm.

I thought he was terrible on Saturday but he normally performs to a far higher standard.

BoomtownHibees
10-08-2015, 11:22 AM
Yep - I wasn't there. Same goes for the majority on the thread who put down every Hibs defeat to Hanlon or Stevenson. As ive said time after time. If he is as poor as some on here think (and I must watch a different player at Easter Rd) why is he never replaced, why is he pushed back in as soon as half fit?

In the first 30 v Rangers he was pretty much the best player on the park. Then he had to go back and cover the CH role and we lost all shape in midfield and got over powered on the flanks. Yet - this was a Hanlon issue according to some posters on here.

Again having watched the goals we conceded yesterday I fail to see which one was Hanlons fault? I'll happily discuss the mistakes he makes but how on earth can he be blamed for shipping two goals he wasn't involved in??

A player doesn't need to be directly at fault for goals to have had a poor game. Fraser Fyvie was the worst player on the park however would you defend him as well due to him not being to blame for any of the goals?

B.H.F.C
10-08-2015, 11:22 AM
Nah - ive tried to ignore the thread all weekend tbh. But I look forward to the examples of why PH is at fault for us losing two games.

Jeez you don't give up on Hanlon do you. Even when you weren't there to see how he performed.

Our defence as a whole were terrible the other day. They never got to grips with the two boys up top for Dumbarton all day and that gave Dumbarton something to play off.

DJ HIBBY
10-08-2015, 11:25 AM
Yep - I wasn't there. Same goes for the majority on the thread who put down every Hibs defeat to Hanlon or Stevenson. As ive said time after time. If he is as poor as some on here think (and I must watch a different player at Easter Rd) why is he never replaced, why is he pushed back in as soon as half fit?

In the first 30 v Rangers he was pretty much the best player on the park. Then he had to go back and cover the CH role and we lost all shape in midfield and got over powered on the flanks. Yet - this was a Hanlon issue according to some posters on here.

Again having watched the goals we conceded yesterday I fail to see which one was Hanlons fault? I'll happily discuss the mistakes he makes but how on earth can he be blamed for shipping two goals he wasn't involved in??

Hanlon and Fontaine were both at blame for the lead-up to the first goal on Saturday. Hanlon got caught under the ball from a long punt leaving Fontaine to cover. Fontaine then gave a cheap foul when the Dumbarton centre forward had nowhere to go. The whole game both centre backs were shaky and bullied by the Dumbarton centre forwards. A few years ago I thought Hanlon would have progressed into a decent centre half but whilst he is ok with the ball at his feet, his defending is poor and imo opinion he is too small and not strong enough, so easily bullied. In short he isn't commanding enough. Both he and Stevenson are imo dead wood and we need to move on from them.

I actually lost count of the number of times that Stevenson got into terrific positions close to the by-line only to deliver a piss poor cross. He panics in the last 3rd of the pitch and shows a complete lack of composure. The only defence for Stevenson is that everyone's delivery from crosses was abysmal.

southsider
10-08-2015, 11:26 AM
If Bartley had jumped at the free kick he could have headed it away. Or the ball hits him in the face. Same result - no goal.

B.H.F.C
10-08-2015, 11:26 AM
Yep - I wasn't there. Same goes for the majority on the thread who put down every Hibs defeat to Hanlon or Stevenson. As ive said time after time. If he is as poor as some on here think (and I must watch a different player at Easter Rd) why is he never replaced, why is he pushed back in as soon as half fit?

In the first 30 v Rangers he was pretty much the best player on the park. Then he had to go back and cover the CH role and we lost all shape in midfield and got over powered on the flanks. Yet - this was a Hanlon issue according to some posters on here.

Again having watched the goals we conceded yesterday I fail to see which one was Hanlons fault? I'll happily discuss the mistakes he makes but how on earth can he be blamed for shipping two goals he wasn't involved in??

And if you want to go back to the Rangers game, yes he played well for 30 minutes. But we'd already lost 3 goals by the time he went back to centre half so our shape was hardly solid prior to that was it? And it's you that keeps tellig us we need to protect our defence isn't it. Well when he was in midfield that went out the window as well.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:28 AM
Jeez you don't give up on Hanlon do you. Even when you weren't there to see how he performed.

Our defence as a whole were terrible the other day. They never got to grips with the two boys up top for Dumbarton all day and that gave Dumbarton something to play off.

Fine - I'm sure he will be dropped then.

B.H.F.C
10-08-2015, 11:29 AM
Fine - I'm sure he will be dropped then.

Cracking reply. Who do you suggest we drop him for seen as we have no fit centre halves?

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:31 AM
And if you want to go back to the Rangers game, yes he played well for 30 minutes. But we'd already lost 3 goals by the time he went back to centre half so our shape was hardly solid prior to that was it? And it's you that keeps tellig us we need to protect our defence isn't it. Well when he was in midfield that went out the window as well.

We need to protect our defence on the flanks. Almost every manager in the league has spotted that. Very few teams come through the middle with us....we have huge gaps down the sides. Our midfield defend very poorly on both sides. That is why we are leaking goals.

B.H.F.C
10-08-2015, 11:33 AM
We need to protect our defence on the flanks. Almost every manager in the league has spotted that. Very few teams come through the middle with us....we have huge gaps down the sides. Our midfield defend very poorly on both sides. That is why we are leaking goals.

Neither goal the other day was as a result of them getting at us down the flanks.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:34 AM
Cracking reply. Who do you suggest we drop him for seen as we have no fit centre halves?

Bartley can play CH. Honestly if he is performing poorly he'd be dropped. We also have Dev players that can come in.

I do not believe our teams issue is down to either of our CHs.

Smartie
10-08-2015, 11:37 AM
Bartley can play CH. Honestly if he is performing poorly he'd be dropped. We also have Dev players that can come in.

I do not believe our teams issue is down to either of our CHs.

They both did well last season and I'd have happily agreed with you then.

They've both been all at sea in our 2 competitive games this season against teams at our level.

I think it is only right that questions should be asked of them as much as anyone.

J-C
10-08-2015, 11:39 AM
As a team you should defend from the front, something we're not doing. Rangers chased us all over the park forcing us to play the ball sooner than we wanted, just watch all the top teams, they'll press high up the pitch to put pressure on, we just don't do enough of this.

B.H.F.C
10-08-2015, 11:40 AM
Bartley can play CH. Honestly if he is performing poorly he'd be dropped. We also have Dev players that can come in.

I do not believe our teams issue is down to either of our CHs.

I'll agree that it's not our only issue. But when you lose 8 goals in 3 competitive games do you not accept that the centre halves are responsible somewhere along the line?

Bad Martini
10-08-2015, 11:42 AM
Defence isn't the problem.

Not saying it's great and yes it should be doing better given the quality of the opposition but the real problem is that we're not scoring anything like enough goals.

We shouldn't need to be worrying about keeping the opposition to 0 or 1 goal because we should be putting in 3 or 4 a game.
I'd much rather we didn't lose goals like the stupid ones we lost against Dumbarton but on our budget we will continue to lose daft goals because we're not going to get defenders who don't make mistakes.
Flipside is that for our budget we should comfortably have a team that can stick 3 or 4 past part timers which totally negates the daft goals we might lose.

We have plenty possession and create a good *number* of chances - they're just not good chances generally.
The style should be one or two nasty ball winners in midfield and the other 4 or 5 are guys who go at the opposition with purpose rather than trying to pass it into the net. One or more guys who can ping them from distance and a decent crosser of the ball would help a lot in keeping teams guessing rather than knowing we're going to try to pass our way through them.

Spot. On.

And this has been the case since Riordan and O'Connor were smashing in ****loads of goals.

The truth is that we used to score a lot more than we conceided but that doens't mean we didnt have defensive issues. We did.

Now were not scoring as many as we should.

Simple maths.

You lose more than you score, you lose. Even simpler maths says you dont lose any, the worst result you end up with is a draw.

Our defence has issues. However, as someone rightly pointed out, the first form of defence is attack.....and if they also fail to score, your ****ed.

ENDOF

JimBHibees
10-08-2015, 11:43 AM
Some seriously knee jerk stuff here. Hanlon's decent in my view and we wouldn't have been relegated had he not been injured towards the end of the season.

Turnbull's Tornadoes had 2 left footed centre halfs.

Not huge on Oxley but we've had worse and the others in the league and many in Premiership aren't any better. Concede every week? It's the same back 5 that kept 16 clean sheets last season.

We all wanted to hit the ground running this season but if the fans get on top of our players like many of our last few years then we'll be scraping the barrel for confidence once again and in another rut.

Neither Jim Black or John Blackley were left footed players.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:45 AM
They both did well last season and I'd have happily agreed with you then.

They've both been all at sea in our 2 competitive games this season against teams at our level.

I think it is only right that questions should be asked of them as much as anyone.

Spot on... where are the questions about the rest. A few people at the game have said that Gray was "murder" Fyvie "worst ever game"

As you say the both did well last season but we are two games in and they are now to blame for every defeat we've ever had.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 11:47 AM
I'll agree that it's not our only issue. But when you lose 8 goals in 3 competitive games do you not accept that the centre halves are responsible somewhere along the line?

The whole team is responsible. Our midfield is constantly held up as being one of the most talented around....yet we are out played by a part time team? That surely should never happen? Also according to Stubbs there is a real lack of urgency and fight in there. In my view games are won and lost in midfield. We should be bossing these games.

bill the hibby
10-08-2015, 12:03 PM
As a team you should defend from the front, something we're not doing. Rangers chased us all over the park forcing us to play the ball sooner than we wanted, just watch all the top teams, they'll press high up the pitch to put pressure on, we just don't do enough of this.

Agree. Same problem as last season. We sit far too deep and invite pressure on ourselves

southern hibby
10-08-2015, 12:15 PM
I'm thinking the Fontaine / Hanlon pairing doesn't work. I've always had a problem with two left sided centre halfs.

My sentiments exactly. Solution not exactly sure however surely oxley, Fontaine and handling must be training together so that they know where the other will be for cover etc.
AS, was a good defender however for some reason he seems to allow the same sh t to happen over and over again without it being addressed. Cross balls are an example. To me BOTH CH should be attacking that ball unless they are adamant that the other ( or oxley if he can ever get his bum of the line ) will be there to cover him / get the ball.
GGTTH

Smartie
10-08-2015, 12:20 PM
I think it was the cup game at Alloa last season - Fontaine had a stinker. Was lunging in, misjudging it in the air, all over the place.

Hanlon swept up behind him beautifully, really saved his bacon at times. Maybe they even planned it that way- Fontaine just attacks everything and whether he gets it or not, Hanlon will sweep?

They looked every bit the partnership that day, doesn't matter which foot you kick with. They did well for much of last season.

They have started this season badly, no question. But I think we're starting to look for things that aren't necessarily there.

Brightside
10-08-2015, 12:29 PM
I think it was the cup game at Alloa last season - Fontaine had a stinker. Was lunging in, misjudging it in the air, all over the place.

Hanlon swept up behind him beautifully, really saved his bacon at times. Maybe they even planned it that way- Fontaine just attacks everything and whether he gets it or not, Hanlon will sweep?

They looked every bit the partnership that day, doesn't matter which foot you kick with. They did well for much of last season.

They have started this season badly, no question. But I think we're starting to look for things that aren't necessarily there.

That's the partnership I see in most games. No doubt they have off days. But im happy with the two we have. The team though must do better as closing down and putting pressure on the oppo.

southern hibby
10-08-2015, 12:29 PM
I think it was the cup game at Alloa last season - Fontaine had a stinker. Was lunging in, misjudging it in the air, all over the place.

Hanlon swept up behind him beautifully, really saved his bacon at times. Maybe they even planned it that way- Fontaine just attacks everything and whether he gets it or not, Hanlon will sweep?

They looked every bit the partnership that day, doesn't matter which foot you kick with. They did well for much of last season.

They have started this season badly, no question. But I think we're starting to look for things that aren't necessarily there.

Smartie, totally agree with your post, except one little bit, there must be something there because yet again cross balls are just not defended with any sort of urgency. Maybe it's just me but I think we need to address our failings immediately if we have any ambition to get out of this league.

GGTTH

Greenworld
10-08-2015, 12:31 PM
Paul Hanlon has not improved as a player in the last 5 years.. He is stuck a level and doesn't seem to be pushing on from it.. Maybe it is time we sold him.
I dont know of anyone knocking the door down wanting to buy is this the last year of his contract

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Brightside
10-08-2015, 12:35 PM
I dont know of anyone knocking the door down wanting to buy is this the last year of his contract

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

You'll be sick as a dog when he signs his extension then! :na na:

Greenworld
10-08-2015, 12:47 PM
We need to protect our defence on the flanks. Almost every manager in the league has spotted that. Very few teams come through the middle with us....we have huge gaps down the sides. Our midfield defend very poorly on both sides. That is why we are leaking goals.
Can you tell our management then please.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

carnoustiehibee
10-08-2015, 12:50 PM
You'll be sick as a dog when he signs his extension then! :na na:

You said on Friday there was a defender signing on Monday. Is this still true? And what position

Greenworld
10-08-2015, 12:56 PM
You'll be sick as a dog when he signs his extension then! :na na:
Not really I have no hatred of paul i just see a weakness... but my point is if he is that good how come we dont get offers...
For what its worth I actually think he would be fantastic in front of a back three or four...


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Brightside
10-08-2015, 12:57 PM
You said on Friday there was a defender signing on Monday. Is this still true? And what position

We are in the process of signing a utility defender. Plays CH. If it happens today I don't know...but its at advanced stages.

carnoustiehibee
10-08-2015, 01:07 PM
We are in the process of signing a utility defender. Plays CH. If it happens today I don't know...but its at advanced stages.

Cheers

HIBERNIAN-0762
10-08-2015, 01:13 PM
We will continue to struggle as long as we have Oxley, Stevenson and hanlon in the team. They are just not good enough.

Sense at last! are we the only ones that can see it?

The Leith Dutch
10-08-2015, 01:24 PM
Sense at last! are we the only ones that can see it?

Not defending those three players but we will continue to struggle while we only score one goal against a team of part timers.
That's the actual problem.

Hibby 2005
10-08-2015, 02:00 PM
Not defending those three players but we will continue to struggle while we only score one goal against a team of part timers.
That's the actual problem.

We scored a goal on Saturday and could have won 1-0, Hearts managed it a few times last season. The real problem is that our forwards are under pressure to score at least 2 goals a game as we will concede goals every week with the defence we have at present.

The Leith Dutch
10-08-2015, 02:58 PM
We scored a goal on Saturday and could have won 1-0, Hearts managed it a few times last season.

The yams did better when scoring only one goal (W4 D2 L1) than we did (W1 D4 L3) I'll give you that.

But they dropped 12 of the 17 points they dropped scoring less than 2 goals.
We lost 36 of the 38 points we dropped scoring less than 2 goals.

Most of the points dropped are a result of scoring less than 2 goals.


The real problem is that our forwards are under pressure to score at least 2 goals a game as we will concede goals every week with the defence we have at present.

If our full time forwards find it too much pressure scoring 2 goals against part time teams I think that's where the real problem is.

And no - I'm not accepting the defence's performance or sticking up for them but surely you'd concede that we have a major problem in attack if our forwards can't hack scoring 2+ a game at this level?

Hibby 2005
10-08-2015, 03:13 PM
The yams did better when scoring only one goal (W4 D2 L1) than we did (W1 D4 L3) I'll give you that.

But they dropped 12 of the 17 points they dropped scoring less than 2 goals.
We lost 36 of the 38 points we dropped scoring less than 2 goals.

Most of the points dropped are a result of scoring less than 2 goals.



If our full time forwards find it too much pressure scoring 2 goals against part time teams I think that's where the real problem is.

And no - I'm not accepting the defence's performance or sticking up for them but surely you'd concede that we have a major problem in attack if our forwards can't hack scoring 2+ a game at this level?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the pressure, from a forwards point of view, of knowing you can't rely on your defence to protect a lead is not exactly healthy. A nervous defence then translates to a stressed out forward line!

The Leith Dutch
10-08-2015, 03:24 PM
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the pressure, from a forwards point of view, of knowing you can't rely on your defence to protect a lead is not exactly healthy. A nervous defence then translates to a stressed out forward line!

Ah - I get you now :)

Guess it can't be easy knowing the defence is so shaky.
Might also go some way to explaining the tippy tappy stuff around the box - forwards trying to keep the ball to ease the pressure on the defence rather than just getting the shots off?

Interested to know what you think about our poor conversion rate of shots - are the chances being created not good enough or the finishing not clinical enough? Or possibly both? The pressure on the forwards created by the defence might suggest they're snatching at the chances.

I just can't help feeling that - at least once we have all our attacking players back - we should be scoring for fun and targeting 80 - 90 goals in the league......

Hibby 2005
10-08-2015, 03:40 PM
Ah - I get you now :)

Guess it can't be easy knowing the defence is so shaky.
Might also go some way to explaining the tippy tappy stuff around the box - forwards trying to keep the ball to ease the pressure on the defence rather than just getting the shots off?

Interested to know what you think about our poor conversion rate of shots - are the chances being created not good enough or the finishing not clinical enough? Or possibly both? The pressure on the forwards created by the defence might suggest they're snatching at the chances.

I just can't help feeling that - at least once we have all our attacking players back - we should be scoring for fun and targeting 80 - 90 goals in the league......

We do seem to be trying to walk the ball into the net at times rather than just having a blast. The forwards didn't look relaxed going by the Dumbarton highlights while the defence was very indecisive. I still feel the major problem is the defence and it worries me that Stubbs resigned Oxley and has kept faith with Hanlon and to a lesser extent Stevenson but I'm aware this has been discussed greatly already.

Ayrshire Hibbie
10-08-2015, 04:15 PM
or
As long as oxley is in goals and Stevenson is at left back we are going to concede goals every week. I still can't get over how horrendous oxleys keeping was today for the goals. I think we will lose more games this season than we did last season.

SunshineOnLeith
10-08-2015, 04:50 PM
Good to see we're back to picking on the two established pros who came through our own ranks after the last couple of years with that interloper Liam Craig having the honour.

People being generally supportive of a couple of honest pros who have found their level and given their all for Hibs for their entire careers to date just felt....weird.

steviehibsleith
10-08-2015, 05:37 PM
Ah - I get you now :)

Guess it can't be easy knowing the defence is so shaky.
Might also go some way to explaining the tippy tappy stuff around the box - forwards trying to keep the ball to ease the pressure on the defence rather than just getting the shots off?

Interested to know what you think about our poor conversion rate of shots - are the chances being created not good enough or the finishing not clinical enough? Or possibly both? The pressure on the forwards created by the defence might suggest they're snatching at the chances.

I just can't help feeling that - at least once we have all our attacking players back - we should be scoring for fun and targeting 80 - 90 goals in the league......
Thats wonderful apart from when we play tough teams and only manage a goal guess we are rooked then because we still have a terrible defence and even you are saying we will concede. No cup runs or promotion for us then but at least we might score goals against part time teams or teams with a budget a quarter of our own.
You are right are forwards are not scoring enough but they do score its the Defence which lose us games it should have been 0-1 to Hibs and we should be on here talking about missed chances not a opening day defeat to Dumbarton.

The Leith Dutch
10-08-2015, 07:27 PM
You are right are forwards are not scoring enough but they do score its the Defence which lose us games it should have been 0-1 to Hibs and we should be on here talking about missed chances not a opening day defeat to Dumbarton.

Points are dropped mostly in the games that you don't score enough goals.

Even at much higher levels that we're playing at you drop most of your points in games you score less than two goals in and that's largely because there is no room for error: unlucky bounce, wicked deflection, switch off for a minute, two guys going for the same ball and so on. All manner of spawny crap and moments of ineptitude and you lose points.

It's really easy to concede a goal even if you have four defenders of a quality we will *never* have at Hibs.
The insurance against that is making sure that conceding a goal doesn't always mean you lose points and that requires 2 or more goals.

We only conceded 2 goals on 7 occasions last season. If we repeat that and score 2 a game over the remaining matches this season we would stroll the league as we'd win 29 of the 35 games.

I'm not arguing in favour of having a crap defence.....just pointing out that fixing the number of goals we score is, in my opinion, a far more achievable way of reducing the number of points we drop.

Unseen work
10-08-2015, 10:46 PM
Our defence is a very weird one IMO. Generally when I watch them I think they perform well and individually I like them as players. I very rarely come away from games saying they had a howler, it is normally the exact opposite.

However

Whenever we conceded it is always down to poor/soft/loss of concentration. It can't just be a coincidence?

I rate Lewis Stevenson and Paul hanlon, but they have been part of the defence for the best part of 5 years, and throughout these 5 years it's been the same issues.

When was the last time Hanlon wasn't a first pick?

I am not solely blaming these guys, but I wonder how our performances would change if we signed 2 new first picks instead of these 2.

I am a massive fan of Forster, he is younger, stronger and more aggressive than Hanlon IMO, yes he makes the odd mistake aswell but I think we should try him with fonts. Or if the rumours are true about a new centre half try him as a first pick.

The matter of the fact is, how many games do we actually have to defend for large periods for in this league? Not many at all. So the couple of times the defence are tested in a game we should be able to have confidence in them to see us through. We should be winning games 1/2-0 instead of trying to win 4-3.

The best we play defensively is against the bigger teams, when we know we have to defend and everyone does there job and is concentrating. That is fine, but it really matters when we play the likes of Dumbarton that we win and don't concede sloppy goals!!!

matty_f
10-08-2015, 10:57 PM
Our defence is a very weird one IMO. Generally when I watch them I think they perform well and individually I like them as players. I very rarely come away from games saying they had a howler, it is normally the exact opposite.

However

Whenever we conceded it is always down to poor/soft/loss of concentration. It can't just be a coincidence?

I rate Lewis Stevenson and Paul hanlon, but they have been part of the defence for the best part of 5 years, and throughout these 5 years it's been the same issues.

When was the last time Hanlon wasn't a first pick?

I am not solely blaming these guys, but I wonder how our performances would change if we signed 2 new first picks instead of these 2.

I am a massive fan of Forster, he is younger, stronger and more aggressive than Hanlon IMO, yes he makes the odd mistake aswell but I think we should try him with fonts. Or if the rumours are true about a new centre half try him as a first pick.

The matter of the fact is, how many games do we actually have to defend for large periods for in this league? Not many at all. So the couple of times the defence are tested in a game we should be able to have confidence in them to see us through. We should be winning games 1/2-0 instead of trying to win 4-3.

The best we play defensively is against the bigger teams, when we know we have to defend and everyone does there job and is concentrating. That is fine, but it really matters when we play the likes of Dumbarton that we win and don't concede sloppy goals!!!

Very much along the lines of a conversation I had with Danderhall Hibs earlier today. :agree:

Unseen work
10-08-2015, 11:26 PM
[QUOTE=matty_f;4437635]Very much along the lines of a conversation I had with Danderhall Hibs earlier today. :agree:[/

It really does stagger me mate. The first goal we conceded was of amateur standard.

J-C
10-08-2015, 11:43 PM
Our defence is a very weird one IMO. Generally when I watch them I think they perform well and individually I like them as players. I very rarely come away from games saying they had a howler, it is normally the exact opposite.

However

Whenever we conceded it is always down to poor/soft/loss of concentration. It can't just be a coincidence?

I rate Lewis Stevenson and Paul hanlon, but they have been part of the defence for the best part of 5 years, and throughout these 5 years it's been the same issues.

When was the last time Hanlon wasn't a first pick?

I am not solely blaming these guys, but I wonder how our performances would change if we signed 2 new first picks instead of these 2.

I am a massive fan of Forster, he is younger, stronger and more aggressive than Hanlon IMO, yes he makes the odd mistake aswell but I think we should try him with fonts. Or if the rumours are true about a new centre half try him as a first pick.

The matter of the fact is, how many games do we actually have to defend for large periods for in this league? Not many at all. So the couple of times the defence are tested in a game we should be able to have confidence in them to see us through. We should be winning games 1/2-0 instead of trying to win 4-3.

The best we play defensively is against the bigger teams, when we know we have to defend and everyone does there job and is concentrating. That is fine, but it really matters when we play the likes of Dumbarton that we win and don't concede sloppy goals!!!


:top marks

I have said before Hanlon is just not good enough, he's been a mainstay in this piss poor defence this past 5 years and if fit will always be 1st pick as there is no one else. I can't believe Stubbs would go out his way to originally play 2 lefty's as a pairing and I can only assume he had Forster in mind or to play 3 at the back.

Lewis I feel sorry for, he was MOM in the cup win in 07 playing as a left sided midfielder with Murphy as his left back( not a bad left back too boot ) but he's been through the wringer with some awful managers playing him everywhere except left midfield where he belongs, jeez even Fenlon thought he could fill in at RB :confused:

What amazes me yet again is the fact that another top former CH can't do the basics and get the defence to do their bloody jobs right, Mowbray, Yogi and Stubbs all wanted pretty football but couldn't organise a defence if their lives depended on it.