SNP maintains winning streak in by-eletions

[ronaldo7]

Some poor turn outs, but the SNP hold 4 and gain 1 on the night.

http://t.co/sqCgwXDX4r

[ronaldo7]

15504:aok:


15505:aok:

[Future17]

15504:aok:


15505:aok:

Jeez, I know it's Ayrshire but that's a worrying result for Labour by anyone's standards.

[ronaldo7]

Jeez, I know it's Ayrshire but that's a worrying result for Labour by anyone's standards.

:agree: Both wards, the Labour vote has dropped. It looks like the Tories are now stealing Labour's clothes with the move to second in East Ayrshire.

Just heard SNP hold Stirling East.

Aberdeen Midstocket/Rosemount ward to the SNP, another Gain.

Aberdeen George st Harbour ward to the SNP.

Independent retains Heldon and Laich in Moray.

[ronaldo7]

SNP hold Hamilton North and East increasing vote by 2.4%

Labour lose 9.4% of their vote with most going to the Tories.

15938

[Geo_1875]

SNP hold Hamilton North and East increasing vote by 2.4%

Labour lose 9.4% of their vote with most going to the Tories.

15938

Just how can a disgruntled Labour voter change to Tory? That is just wrong even in council by-elections.

[marinello59]

Just how can a disgruntled Labour voter change to Tory? That is just wrong even in council by-elections.

Some obviously went to the SNP. The rest probably weren't that bothered about the tartan branding and went for the originals. :devil:

[Geo_1875]

Some obviously went to the SNP. The rest probably weren't that bothered about the tartan branding and went for the originals. :devil:

They could have followed Labour policy and abstained.

[Hibs Class]

They could have followed Labour policy and abstained.

Almost 80% did just that.

[ronaldo7]

Just how can a disgruntled Labour voter change to Tory? That is just wrong even in council by-elections.

It happens all the time Saff of the Border. Thank goodness we have a FANTASTIC alternative.:greengrin

[lyonhibs]

Some of these turnout numbers are absolutely pathetic.

Still, good to see that the trend amongst those that could be bothered vaguely reflected the GE results. Until Labour becomes an actual credible political party again, it really is SNP or bust in Scotland IMO.

Never thought I'd find myself saying that, but there we go.

[ronaldo7]

Chris Cunningham elected in Glasgow. The turn out was very low(under 24%) with a swing of 20% from Labour to the SNP.

https://t.co/fX69k0Nw5z

[pontius pilate]

Chris Cunningham elected in Glasgow. The turn out was very low(under 24%) with a swing of 20% from Labour to the SNP.

https://t.co/fX69k0Nw5z

Noticed the Tories had a slight rise as well. Is that then stealing traditional Labour voters in glasgow

[lucky]

Bad result for Labour but council by elections in multi member wards are not a great barometer for future elections

[JeMeSouviens]

Bad result for Labour but council by elections in multi member wards are not a great barometer for future elections

Talk about clutching at straws!

2015 - wiped out in UKGE bar Foundation of Muppets boy
2016 - hammered in SGE finishing behind Tories
2015/16 - dropping like the proverbial in every opinion poll to the point where 20% seems like a far off dream.

How much more barometric do you need?

[cabbageandribs1875]

labour came 7th(SEVENTH) up culloden way, i'm stunned they even came 7th(SEVENTH) i can only assume only :7: parties took part :greengrin



anyone know who the voter might have been :)

[Pretty Boy]

Whilst I understand the glee about Labours woes, particularly in Scotland, it is worrying.

With no credible opposition to the Tories at a UK wide level they have the majority, and arguably the mandate, to implement whatever takes their fancy with little worry to worry about in at least one general election.

Labour need to get their act together and fast but I've been saying that for at least 4 years so I'm not holding my breath. When Tony Blair starts threatening a return to front line politics amid rumblings of a new centrist pro Europe party you know it's time to be concerned.

[lucky]

Talk about clutching at straws!

2015 - wiped out in UKGE bar Foundation of Muppets boy
2016 - hammered in SGE finishing behind Tories
2015/16 - dropping like the proverbial in every opinion poll to the point where 20% seems like a far off dream.

How much more barometric do you need?

Not clutching at straws but in the context of the Glasgow council by-election it's not a great barometer for future elections.

A couple of months back Strugeon's dad lost a by-election and her mum lost her provost role in Ayrshire this did not mean that the snp were going backwards. Clearly Labour have to regain the trust and ear of the Scottish and British people because Scotland is a one party state and England is heading that way too. Other parties are enjoying success but it was not that long ago that Labour enjoyed it. I'm always hopeful that our time will come again. If Nicola calls a referendum and loses then resigns I'm not sure that the SNP have anyone to replace her with who would be as effective or as popular with the Scottish people. Labour are down but we are not out and will be fighting hard in next years council elections to retain every council seat we hold just now.

[snooky]

Just how can a disgruntled Labour voter change to Tory? That is just wrong even in council by-elections.

Kinda like a TRFC supporter deciding to follow Celtc after their recent OF drubbing.
It's just no' right. (No pun intended)

[stoneyburn hibs]

Whilst I understand the glee about Labours woes, particularly in Scotland, it is worrying.

With no credible opposition to the Tories at a UK wide level they have the majority, and arguably the mandate, to implement whatever takes their fancy with little worry to worry about in at least one general election.

Labour need to get their act together and fast but I've been saying that for at least 4 years so I'm not holding my breath. When Tony Blair starts threatening a return to front line politics amid rumblings of a new centrist pro Europe party you know it's time to be concerned.

I'd say that that the labour party are now irrelevant in Scotland, and it's not of their own doing.

[snooky]

I'd say that that the labour party are now irrelevant in Scotland, and it's not of their own doing.

Sorry to disagree but I think it is.

[Mr Grieves]

I'd say that that the labour party are now irrelevant in Scotland, and it's not of their own doing.

Whose doing is it then?

Anyway, the council election result in Culloden is quite interesting. With the the single transferable vote going in the lib dens favour despite the SNP leading at the beginning.

[weecounty hibby]

Not clutching at straws but in the context of the Glasgow council by-election it's not a great barometer for future elections.

A couple of months back Strugeon's dad lost a by-election and her mum lost her provost role in Ayrshire this did not mean that the snp were going backwards. Clearly Labour have to regain the trust and ear of the Scottish and British people because Scotland is a one party state and England is heading that way too. Other parties are enjoying success but it was not that long ago that Labour enjoyed it. I'm always hopeful that our time will come again. If Nicola calls a referendum and loses then resigns I'm not sure that the SNP have anyone to replace her with who would be as effective or as popular with the Scottish people. Labour are down but we are not out and will be fighting hard in next years council elections to retain every council seat we hold just now.
Scotland was a one party state for decades under Labour who in turn left is in a state. It seems only now that it's a problem having one very strong party leading the country. Thankfully that party is the SNP. The real problem is the fact that there is no real opposition. Labour are a shambles and no matter how many times Ruthy denies it the SNP do in fact speak for Scotland on many many issues

[Hibrandenburg]

Just how can a disgruntled Labour voter change to Tory? That is just wrong even in council by-elections.


I think the whole brexit thing has shown that many of our so called socialists are in fact national socialists.

[marinello59]

I think the whole brexit thing has shown that many of our so called socialists are in fact national socialists.

Wow. A wee bit over the top there I think.

[Hibrandenburg]

Wow. A wee bit over the top there I think.

Why, If someone holds socialist values but holds his national borders security and looking after his nations "own way of life" above those values, then by definition he's a "national socialist".

[lucky]

Scotland was a one party state for decades under Labour who in turn left is in a state. It seems only now that it's a problem having one very strong party leading the country. Thankfully that party is the SNP. The real problem is the fact that there is no real opposition. Labour are a shambles and no matter how many times Ruthy denies it the SNP do in fact speak for Scotland on many many issues
Maybe a lack of opposition during Labours domination years contributed to their down fall. But has Scotland improved under the SNP?
Police in a shambles
NHS on its knees
Hospitals closing
Railway biggest mess since privatisation
Class sizes bigger
Referendum divided the country
I can't see much improvements

[marinello59]

Why, If someone holds socialist values but holds his national borders security and looking after his nations "own way of life" above those values, then by definition he's a "national socialist".

You are very carefully choosing the imaginary words you want to put in to the mouths of your unidentified group of 'so called' socialists there. The same sort of thing gets thrown at the SNP by those looking for a lazy way to dismiss complex arguments with a slur. Not your usual way of operating.

[Hibrandenburg]

You are very carefully choosing the imaginary words you want to put in to the mouths of your unidentified group of 'so called' socialists there. The same sort of thing gets thrown at the SNP by those looking for a lazy way to dismiss complex arguments with a slur. Not your usual way of operating.

To be honest it's an idea that's been banging around in my head whilst I've been looking for an explanation as to how so called labour supporters (socialists) could be motivated to vote in favour of isolation and favouritism for British nationals? It's not intended as a dig but purely a means of explanation to something that baffles me. I can't come up with a better one so it might be worthwhile throwing it out there for discussion.

[Moulin Yarns]

labour came 7th(SEVENTH) up culloden way, i'm stunned they even came 7th(SEVENTH) i can only assume only :7: parties took part :greengrin



anyone know who the voter might have been :)


1st votes
SNP 753
Con 439
LibDem 463
Lab 163
Green 180
Ind1 23
Ind2 274
Ind3 158
Ind4 315

Final stage
SNP 1001
LibDem 1026

Ind1drops out first stage then Ind3 then Labour then Green Then ind2 then Ind 4 finally Con

Leaving it between SNP andLibDem

[The Pointer]

Maybe a lack of opposition during Labours domination years contributed to their down fall. But has Scotland improved under the SNP?
Police in a shambles
NHS on its knees
Hospitals closing
Railway biggest mess since privatisation
Class sizes bigger
Referendum divided the country
I can't see much improvements

And don't forget the farmers have been hung out to dry and the fishing industry has been screwed by the SNP jumping into bed with massively funded American 'environmentalist' groups. (This is one group who will benefit greatly from Brexit.) Also, as part of their petty socialist thinking they're hitting small landowners.

[ronaldo7]

Maybe a lack of opposition during Labours domination years contributed to their down fall. But has Scotland improved under the SNP?
Police in a shambles
NHS on its knees
Hospitals closing
Railway biggest mess since privatisation
Class sizes bigger
Referendum divided the country
I can't see much improvements

In the current climate of making lists, I though you might want to look at this one. It's rather long though, and you may be belching by the end.

The list is not exhaustive, but the best bit for me is the Queensferry crossing which £1.4Billion will be invested, nearly the same amount that Labour returned to Westminster from 1999-2007 as they didn't know what to do with it.

Another bit I like is the 30,000 houses built against 6 by Labour(that's not 6k, just 6)

https://caltonjock.com/2016/04/25/snp-government-achievements-the-list-and-it-is-long/

[lucky]

New bridge built with Chinese steal. Most of the £1.4b left these shores. The Govt has built NO homes but local councils have.

[ronaldo7]

New bridge built with Chinese steal. Most of the £1.4b left these shores. The Govt has built NO homes but local councils have.

You forgot the Polish and Spanish steel going into the bridge. You also forgot than not one company in Scotland or the Uk made a bid to provide the steel.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.thenational.scot/news/no-scots-bids-for-forth-bridge-contract.8986&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjz8su_r83PAhVGVBQKHbZRDeE4ChAWCB0wCA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEjVHokKTN9Wnm8HaWDqbRvt2lTcA

Over 30,000 new homes built, and over £1.7Billion investment under the SNP watch. Labour built 6 hooses

[Just Alf]

New bridge built with Chinese steal. Most of the £1.4b left these shores. The Govt has built NO homes but local councils have.


The £££'s got us a bridge though rather than being handed back which was more the point being made.

And to be fair re the steel the government did try to source initially from the UK but there were no producers still able to provide the particular grade of steel required, the majority of other steel in the project came from the UK (that's a drop in the ocean of the overall project tho!)

[JeMeSouviens]

Maybe a lack of opposition during Labours domination years contributed to their down fall. But has Scotland improved under the SNP?
Police in a shambles
NHS on its knees
Hospitals closing
Railway biggest mess since privatisation
Class sizes bigger
Referendum divided the country
I can't see much improvements

Hyperbole much? :rolleyes:

The trouble with this sort of chat is it just doesn't chime with the reality people see around us. I think Scotland probably has improved a little since devolution and more than half of that has now been under an SNP executive. Granted the pace of improvement isn't great and there's plenty room for it but overall I think most people would give the SNP a C+ or so. Statements like "police in a shambles" and "NHS on its knees" are just so obviously bs that you can't help but switch off to the rest of the message.

Even the BBC are reporting some good news. :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37616226 - "A European study has suggested that Scotland has the best quality of life among the home nations.
The findings - based on data from 37 regions of the UK - considered factors such as health, safety, access to education and personal rights."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37618111 - "Over the 10-year period from 2006-07 to 2015-16, the number of homicide cases in Scotland fell by 52% (62 cases) from 119 to 57"

[RyeSloan]

Hyperbole much? :rolleyes:

The trouble with this sort of chat is it just doesn't chime with the reality people see around us. I think Scotland probably has improved a little since devolution and more than half of that has now been under an SNP executive. Granted the pace of improvement isn't great and there's plenty room for it but overall I think most people would give the SNP a C+ or so. Statements like "police in a shambles" and "NHS on its knees" are just so obviously bs that you can't help but switch off to the rest of the message.

Even the BBC are reporting some good news. :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37616226 - "A European study has suggested that Scotland has the best quality of life among the home nations.
The findings - based on data from 37 regions of the UK - considered factors such as health, safety, access to education and personal rights."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37618111 - "Over the 10-year period from 2006-07 to 2015-16, the number of homicide cases in Scotland fell by 52% (62 cases) from 119 to 57"

I think you are right and proves that politicians impact less on the economy and well being of the nation than they think they do.

Employees of the state may see differently considering the teachers are complaining about the hours they work, doctors and nurses complaining about the funding of the NHS etc but from my cynical perspective these things never change (Teachers were on strike when I was in primary many many moons ago!).

Largely though, and I say this as a very light user of state services and public transport etc, things seem pretty much as they were.

Have the SNP made a great difference to me in my life? No. Did Labour before them? No.

What has impacted me most is where I work, where I live, how much I earn and who I share my life with....all things largely within my control.

So in summary politicians and governments are over rated and I'm unclear why so many people get their knickers in such a twist over them [emoji13]

[lucky]

Hyperbole much? :rolleyes:

The trouble with this sort of chat is it just doesn't chime with the reality people see around us. I think Scotland probably has improved a little since devolution and more than half of that has now been under an SNP executive. Granted the pace of improvement isn't great and there's plenty room for it but overall I think most people would give the SNP a C+ or so. Statements like "police in a shambles" and "NHS on its knees" are just so obviously bs that you can't help but switch off to the rest of the message.

Even the BBC are reporting some good news. :wink:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37616226 - "A European study has suggested that Scotland has the best quality of life among the home nations.
The findings - based on data from 37 regions of the UK - considered factors such as health, safety, access to education and personal rights."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37618111 - "Over the 10-year period from 2006-07 to 2015-16, the number of homicide cases in Scotland fell by 52% (62 cases) from 119 to 57"

So the underfunding of the NHS, wards closing, hospital closing, less people employed by NHS does not count as NHS on its knees?
Police Scotland has been a disaster, no accountability from local politicians now the Nats want to merge BTP with Police Scotland so again Police in a shambles is a reasonable statement

[RyeSloan]

So the underfunding of the NHS, wards closing, hospital closing, less people employed by NHS does not count as NHS on its knees?
Police Scotland has been a disaster, no accountability from local politicians now the Nast want to merge BTP with Police Scotland so again Police in a shambles is a reasonable statement

But maybe some of the hospitals were simply not needed or not equipped to deal with the changing requirements? Seems to me numbers of people employed and total number of beds or hospitals would be an incredibly crude metric to measure a health system on. About as crude as saying something is on its knees...what does that mean in terms of outcomes compared to 5 or 10 years ago (when I assume it was standing tall or something like that!)?

As for the police...again there is surely some logic in centrally pooling resources and a separate BTP seems absolutely pointless. No doubt the police changes could and should have been done better but that also doesn't automatically mean that change wasn't required or wasn't the correct thing to do.

I'm all for a bit of Nat bashing (any politician of any colour will do actually) but sound bites and measures that mean nothing is probably not going to be overly effective.

[Mibbes Aye]

To be honest it's an idea that's been banging around in my head whilst I've been looking for an explanation as to how so called labour supporters (socialists) could be motivated to vote in favour of isolation and favouritism for British nationals? It's not intended as a dig but purely a means of explanation to something that baffles me. I can't come up with a better one so it might be worthwhile throwing it out there for discussion.

I'm not sure if I've picked this up right, apologies if I've got it wrong.

If the question is why do some Labour supporters favour Brexit, then at least some come from a long-existing camp (Corbyn's not exactly a stranger to this group). For them, the benefits of improved workers' rights and everything else are a sop to pacify us and distract us from the bigger picture. In their view, the EU is a vehicle for allowing capitalism to run unfettered, with negative consequences for the worker.

It's curious because for many of us, the EU promotes a sense of internationalism, which is a fundamental aspect of genuine socialist belief. Let alone all the other benefits.

Labour's history with the EU/EC is convoluted and contradictory. Attlee wanted no part of any federation or federalism. Gaitskell wasn't interested either, yet in many respects as a post-war leader he stands closest comparison to Blair, who was far more enthusiastic. Gaitskell likened joining the EEC to giving up "...a thousand years of history", which sounds like nationalist rhetoric. Yet his internationalist and socialist credentials were generally sound, if somewhat to the moderate end of the spectrum.