League Cup Format changes (Possible league reconstruction)

[Billy Whizz]

Might be in place by next season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/

[hibs#1]

Might be in place by next season

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/33765192

Link doesn't work for me

[Eyrie]

Not that I'm suspicious or anything but ...


The structure of the competition is the subject of club discussions, as is league restructuring.

A self-imposed three-year hiatus on changing the leagues ends next summer.

Seems nicely set up to expand the top flight to 14/16/18 teams depending on your preference.

[Billy Whizz]

Link doesn't work for me


Fixed it

[Thecat23]

I'm 100% sure this will be in place for the start of next season. Posted a while ago that a few players have been told they expect change to happen. Well some of The Rangers players that is!!

[Onion]

Might be in place by next season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/scottish/

If we look like winning the league, Hibs should vote against.

[Michael]

A league cup group stage in the summer sounds good to me.

Would love an 18 team top flight too, but i doubt it will ever happen. Lower league should be regionalised (after second tier) and a proper pyramid should be in place. One can hope...

[SunshineOnLeith]

If we look like winning the league, Hibs should vote against.

We really shouldn't. An overwhelming majority of fans are in favour of reconstruction and voting against just to stop Rangers getting up is cutting our nose off to spite our face

[hibs#1]

Fixed it
Cheers bud

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[SquashedFrogg]

RE: League construction I think this has to happen at some point.

14 teams as the very minimum.

And scrap this "top 6 p*sh" which is a total waste of time. League placings should be measured at the end of a season, not with 5 games to go.

[Eyrie]

RE: League construction I think this has to happen at some point.

14 teams as the very minimum.

And scrap this "top 6 p*sh" which is a total waste of time. League placings should be measured at the end of a season, not with 5 games to go.

That would rule out a 14 team league, as there would have to be a split since 26 games won't be enough and 52 would be too many.

A 16 team league means 30 games, which also isn't enough, so be default the answer has to be 18 for 34 games plus the revised league cup.

[matty_f]

I genuinely don't care who benefits from it, we need league reconstruction to happen asap for the health of the game.

[Waxy]

I'd like the league cup final in Late October/November like it used to be.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I have been a supporter of a bigger league for years. If that gets us back up all the better.

[hibs#1]

I think a bigger league is the way forward,that's just my opinion also think the metioned changes to the league cup aer a good idea

[ballengeich]

That would rule out a 14 team league, as there would have to be a split since 26 games won't be enough and 52 would be too many.

A 16 team league means 30 games, which also isn't enough, so be default the answer has to be 18 for 34 games plus the revised league cup.

That would take us back to the format abandoned after the 74-75 season.

[Bristolhibby]

I have been a supporter of a bigger league for years. If that gets us back up all the better.

This.

Scottish Football is stale. Laying the same teams 4 times a season is a joke. Combined with the fact that teams in our top 4 leagues are basically pub teams.

J

[ballengeich]

Combined with the fact that teams in our top 4 leagues are basically pub teams.

J

They're not. They're teams of full-time or part-time professional footballers. Because of the differences in population and finance they're not as strong as the teams in larger countries, but pub teams????? You must drink in very different pubs from the ones I use (or ever played for).

[Bristolhibby]

They're not. They're teams of full-time or part-time professional footballers. Because of the differences in population and finance they're not as strong as the teams in larger countries, but pub teams????? You must drink in very different pubs from the ones I use (or ever played for).

Obviously not literally mate. My point is the standard and fan base is just not there. As was said earlier, regionalised lower leagues with two bigger Premiership and Championship.

J

[RoxburghHibs]

Make it a 16 team top flight.

Teams play each other home and away (30 games) the then split into top and bottom 8.

This creates 7 fixtures after the split - so 37 league fixtures in total.

I'd also love to see the Scottish and English league cup semi-finalists qualify for a British cup.

[bingo70]

I genuinely don't care who benefits from it, we need league reconstruction to happen asap for the health of the game.

League reconstruction is great news for Hibs, we might go up without it but that's by no means certain. The removal of the risk and almost guarantee of return to top level football would be a huge boost.

It may even allow us to relax and give youngsters more game time towards the end of the season.

I realise what I'm saying is pretty disrespectful to teams like st mirren, falkirk, raith qots etc but that just shows that Scotland could cope with a bigger league.

If there's a chance the rangers could benefit from a bigger league tgen so be it.

[Bristolhibby]

They're not. They're teams of full-time or part-time professional footballers. Because of the differences in population and finance they're not as strong as the teams in larger countries, but pub teams????? You must drink in very different pubs from the ones I use (or ever played for).

Obviously not literally mate. My point is the standard and fan base is just not there. As was said earlier, regionalised lower leagues with two bigger Premiership and Championship.

J

[3pm]

Playing teams like Montrose and Stranraer in a league doesn't float my boat. Bad enough playing the likes of Alloa and such four times a season as it stands.

[Bristolhibby]

Playing teams like Montrose and Stranraer in a league doesn't float my boat. Bad enough playing the likes of Alloa and such four times a season as it stands.

We'd be playing the likes of Falkirk, QOTS, St. Mirren, Raith Rovers, Rangers, the Premier league and the likes. Not your Stranraers, etc.

J

[Hibbyradge]

Make it a 16 team top flight.

Teams play each other home and away (30 games) the then split into top and bottom 8.

This creates 7 fixtures after the split - so 37 league fixtures in total.

I'd also love to see the Scottish and English league cup semi-finalists qualify for a British cup.

It would be 14 games after the split, making a total of 44 games.

That's too many.

[emerald green]

IMHO I think whether or not league reconstruction goes ahead in season 2016/17 will be hugely influenced by whether or not it's looking like The Rangers are going to be promoted at the end of this season.

[high bee]

18 team league seems the best of a bad bunch, would've rather had 14 or at a push 16 but I cannot stand the split and it's seems the only way to avoid it is to go for 18.

The league would be decent year 1 presuming its:

Aberdeen
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Falkirk
Hamilton
Hearts
Hibs
Inverness CT
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
Queen of the South
Ross County
Raith Rovers
St Johnstone
St Mirren
The Rangers.

The issue is how many do you promote and the quality of this coming up.

[SteveHFC]

18 team league seems the best of a bad bunch, would've rather had 14 or at a push 16 but I cannot stand the split and it's seems the only way to avoid it is to go for 18.

The league would be decent year 1 presuming its:

Aberdeen
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Falkirk
Hamilton
Hearts
Hibs
Inverness CT
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
Queen of the South
Ross County
Raith Rovers
St Johnstone
St Mirren
The Rangers.

The issue is how many do you promote and the quality of this coming up.

3 down

3 up

[Nevi_SOL]

3 down

3 up

They have also said they like the play-offs. So could be 2 down automatically 16th place in a play-off between 3rd 4th and 5 in the championship

[high bee]

3 down

3 up

What would be the most sensible league structure below? 2 regional leagues of 12? Or 2 national leagues? Or maybe 3 leagues?

Interesting times ahead, potentially.

If you had 2 regional leagues you could have the winners of each promoted then the 2nd in each in a playoff.

[MyJo]

That would rule out a 14 team league, as there would have to be a split since 26 games won't be enough and 52 would be too many.

A 16 team league means 30 games, which also isn't enough, so be default the answer has to be 18 for 34 games plus the revised league cup.

Top 2 leagues of 16 playing 30 games and a restructured league cup that includes all 32 teams in the top two leagues in a champions league style tournament with group stages would guarantee 36 games a season and a spare couple of weeks for a winter break to be included.

[lord bunberry]

Why don't we just make it simple and have a 20 team league playing each other twice. A 20 team 2nd division doing the same.

[--------]

A league cup group stage in the summer sounds good to me.

Would love an 18 team top flight too, but i doubt it will ever happen. Lower league should be regionalised (after second tier) and a proper pyramid should be in place. One can hope...




Plus ϛa change, plus c'est la même chose ... :greengrin

That was how we did it in the 1960's when I were a mere slip of a lad who never imagined for a moment that half a century would pass me
by and STILL we wouldn't have won the Scottish Cup. The season began with the League Cup sections of four teams to a section, playing each other home and away, with the winners going into the quarter-finals.

And if I remember aright, the League was split into a First Division and a Second Division, and the First Division had no fewer than 18 teams in it ....

[Bishop Hibee]

34 games in the league is 1 less home game for Championship teams and 2 less for Premiership teams . ST prices won't fall but it's 2 games without walk-up money, hospitality etc. would clubs accept this?

As for a July League Cup, utterly bizarre. Why not have it midweek as it is now and used to be with the final before Christmas?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't get the argument that the standard of the Scottish game has fallen? We are still exporting players to England in roughly the numbers we always did except they don't go to the premiership as much as that is now the preserve of the global elite. And now we get a lot more players from England coming up here as their top flight is shutting them out.
The standard these days is as good as when I started watching.

[Eyrie]

Why don't we just make it simple and have a 20 team league playing each other twice. A 20 team 2nd division doing the same.

But we have 42 senior clubs in Scotland, not 40, so we'd have to get rid of two.

:taxi for Septic and Sevco Huns :thumbsup:

[Bristolhibby]

How many of those senior clubs get unsustainable gates of under 1000 fans?

J

[Sioux]

I don't get the argument that the standard of the Scottish game has fallen? We are still exporting players to England in roughly the numbers we always did except they don't go to the premiership as much as that is now the preserve of the global elite. And now we get a lot more players from England coming up here as their top flight is shutting them out.
The standard these days is as good as when I started watching.

The barometer must be how we compare to other leagues.

Wasn't that long ago teams from Scotland were playing in European finals. Now they're struggling to qualify. The National team hasn't made the finals of a competition since 1998. That suggests we're getting worse.

[GreenCastle]

I was under the impression any changes to league structure had to be voted through before the start of a new season..

Can anyone confirm ?

Would love a larger top league playing each team only twice - once home (sold out Derby etc) and once away - (larger travelling supports).

[IberianHibernian]

Big mistake with League Cup was delaying semis and final till after Christmas . Before it was a tournament that rewarded teams that did well for a few months ( Partick Thistle in 1970 , us in 1991 when we were top of the league as well as LC winners ) even if they didn`t have energy or resources to keep playing well all season . Playing semis and final several months after earlier rounds means it`s hard to keep interest and also means playing semis in worst weather and disrupting league . And means LC and SC going on at same time which isn`t ideal . As for groups , they mean lots of unimportant matches early in season or pre season . One year we beat St Johnstone 9 v 2 and drew 0 v 0 with Montrose both at home in final 2 group matches in front of tiny crowds ( 2000 v Montrose but that was day Pat Stanton left and we were already out of LC ) as Rangers won group . European qualifiers and glamour friendlies for Celtic ( and maybe even us ) will be more competition to LC group matches .

[greenlex]

How many of those senior clubs get unsustainable gates of under 1000 fans?

J
They have sustainable gates or they would fold surely? Just because it's sub 1000 doesn't mean it's not sustainable.

[Greenworld]

Long overdue I have never spoken to a fan of any team who does not think a larger leugue is required

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[lord bunberry]

But we have 42 senior clubs in Scotland, not 40, so we'd have to get rid of two.

:taxi for Septic and Sevco Huns :thumbsup:
That works for me :greengrin

[Nutmegged]

There will be no chance of League Reconstruction next Season, the likelihood is Sevco will be promoted this Season so in that sense the SPFL will say they'll want to see how the Premiership goes with Celtic and The Rangers 2012 in the same Division, they wont change it until they give that a go.

As for the League Cup format, group stages will hardly bring fans back to games, if knock out football where winner takes all won't appeal to fans then I fail to see how random group games will - the only way I see any kind of group games garnering interest would be if they regionalised the competiton, local-ish Derbies would get IMO be the only thing that will get fans interested in these games at the earlier stages

[bigwheel]

There will be no chance of League Reconstruction next Season, the likelihood is Sevco will be promoted this Season so in that sense the SPFL will say they'll want to see how the Premiership goes with Celtic and The Rangers 2012 in the same Division, they wont change it until they give that a go.

As for the League Cup format, group stages will hardly bring fans back to games, if knock out football where winner takes all won't appeal to fans then I fail to see how random group games will - the only way I see any kind of group games garnering interest would be if they regionalised the competiton, local-ish Derbies would get IMO be the only thing that will get fans interested in these games at the earlier stages


There is no more likelihood of them getting promoted than us...

[7 Up]

Almost everyone seems to favour larger leagues. Playing the same team four or more times a season is simply too often.

Group stages in the League Cup is an interesting idea. Devil would be in the detail though.

[RoxburghHibs]

It would be 14 games after the split, making a total of 44 games.

That's too many.

No it wouldn't?

They don't play 10 games after the split just now only 5.

[NAE NOOKIE]

18 team league seems the best of a bad bunch, would've rather had 14 or at a push 16 but I cannot stand the split and it's seems the only way to avoid it is to go for 18.

The league would be decent year 1 presuming its:

Aberdeen
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Falkirk
Hamilton
Hearts
Hibs
Inverness CT
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
Queen of the South
Ross County
Raith Rovers
St Johnstone
St Mirren
The Rangers.

The issue is how many do you promote and the quality of this coming up.

That's the problem with an 18 team league. If that leaves you with an 18 team 2nd division there is little chance of a team coming through that division who could realistically be a challenge for a European place in the seasons after promotion. Looking at that list above, of what's left in Div 2 there are very few clubs who could come up and have the tools required to establish themselves in the top flight. The only candidates I can see are the following clubs, based purely on the possibility that if they do well they could match or better the likes of ICT crowd wise:

Dunfermline
Morton
Ayr Utd

Not much of a list. There is a chance that Airdrie or Livingston could join the list with 'much' better management and that some tiny club could do a Ross County, but both are unlikely IMO.

IMO the limit is 16. I know a lot of people don't like the split, but as far as I can see the only real problem with it has been that under the present structure it causes an imbalance of fixtures ..... EG .. Aberdeen away to Celtic twice and home once before the split. A bigger league would leave scope for 30 games home and away, followed by a top 6 playing 10 games home and away ... total 40 games. That leaves the bottom 10 with a total of 48 games, but its not like they will be in Europe.

[Sammy7nil]

There is no more likelihood of them getting promoted than us...

If u do believe that then fill yer boots at the bookies Rangers 4/6 Hibs 5/2. P. S. The bookies do not normally get it so wildly wrong and they believe Rangers have a far better chance of winning the league

[GreenCastle]

I was under the impression any changes to league structure had to be voted through before the start of a new season..

Can anyone confirm ?

Would love a larger top league playing each team only twice - once home (sold out Derby etc) and once away - (larger travelling supports).

Does anyone know the answer to the above ?

I also wouldn't seed the league cup - free for all from the start would make it more interesting.

[RoxburghHibs]

Does anyone know the answer to the above ?

I also wouldn't seed the league cup - free for all from the start would make it more interesting.

I'd actually like to see 4 pots one for each division used in the draw. Anything to avoid playing the same teams too many times (if a league system were to be introduced).

[Lucius Apuleius]

If u do believe that then fill yer boots at the bookies Rangers 4/6 Hibs 5/2. P. S. The bookies do not normally get it so wildly wrong and they believe Rangers have a far better chance of winning the league

Youare right Sammy,they are not often wrong.Can you remember what the hun odds werelast season?

[bigwheel]

If u do believe that then fill yer boots at the bookies Rangers 4/6 Hibs 5/2. P. S. The bookies do not normally get it so wildly wrong and they believe Rangers have a far better chance of winning the league


Not really a gambling type......let's see where the prices are after the first 10 games...

[Waxy]

Guess a rangers win would be a terrible result for the bookies. I'd imagine most rangers fans (and probably a few jambos) have bet them already. The price isn't changing, its like the bookies are enticing them in and fancy them to be beaten.