England and sectarianism

[Diclonius]

England are showing how it should be done re sectarianism by handing Kirk Broadfoot (remember him?) a ten-game ban for anti-Catholic abuse against James McClean in a friendly.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rotherham-defender-kirk-broadfoot-handed-6127136

Wonder how long a ban he'd be given if he was still playing for the Huns?

[Del Boy]

Well done the FA.

Wish we took such a firm stance on sectarianism, but then that would mean punishing Celtic and Sevco.

[Keith_M]

Well done the FA.

Wish we took such a firm stance on sectarianism, but then that would mean punishing Celtic and Sevco.


:agree:

[PatHead]

"Broadfoot was born into a Protestant family in Ayrshire and is known to be a staunch supporters of certain cultural traditions relating to his religion."

Sfa probably think it is probably okay then.

[cabbageandribs1875]

says everything about the type of person kirk clubfoot is, i've thought for years now that our neighbours over the border must think this country is truly backwards when it comes to religious bigotry

[Keith_M]

"Broadfoot was born into a Protestant family in Ayrshire and is known to be a staunch supporters of certain cultural traditions relating to his religion."



:hmmm:


Whatever could they mean?

[JimBHibees]

Well done the FA.

Wish we took such a firm stance on sectarianism, but then that would mean punishing Celtic and Sevco.

Yep dealt with in the way it should be in a normal society. Broadfoot shown as a complete cretin.

[liamh2202]

Broadfoot is a bellend and has rightly been punished.. Something just doesn't fit right with that cock James MacLean being painted as a victim though. Hes a horrible human being

[JimBHibees]

Broadfoot is a bellend and has rightly been punished.. Something just doesn't fit right with that cock James MacLean being painted as a victim though. Hes a horrible human being

He certainly does go out of his way to make a point. All he had to do was face a flag yet he felt it appropriate to make a point. Pathetic.

[bigwheel]

Broadfoot is a bellend and has rightly been punished.. Something just doesn't fit right with that cock James MacLean being painted as a victim though. Hes a horrible human being

If he is suffering bigoted abuse then he , in this case . is a victim surely ?

[Hibernia&Alba]

"Broadfoot was born into a Protestant family in Ayrshire and is known to be a staunch supporters of certain cultural traditions relating to his religion."

And how often does he practise his religion e.g attend church, open a Bible etc? Another ramjet.

[liamh2202]

If he is suffering bigoted abuse then he , in this case . is a victim surely ?

I would agree if he never done anything to aggrevate the situation. Doesn't excuse broadfoots actions but MacLean is a knob who is just as bigoted as broadfoot

[Vini1875]

He certainly does go out of his way to make a point. All he had to do was face a flag yet he felt it appropriate to make a point. Pathetic.

What was pathetic about it? Why should people just go along with stuff they don't agree with? The British national anthem being played at a club friendly, what the **** is that all about? If they played it at Easter Road for a club game I would hope we would boo it.

He only turned his back which I think given his history is an entirely appropriate protest. A certain type of Britishness is being forced on us all at the moment and I think it is right to resist it.

[JimBHibees]

What was pathetic about it? Why should people just go along with stuff they don't agree with? The British national anthem being played at a club friendly, what the **** is that all about? If they played it at Easter Road for a club game I would hope we would boo it.

He only turned his back which I think given his history is an entirely appropriate protest. A certain type of Britishness is being forced on us all at the moment and I think it is right to resist it.

No one asked him to sing it just show a bit if respect to the country that he is making a living in and also the American anthem as well. Hardly a big deal I would have thought. No type of Britishness was forced on anyone in this instance. No doubt WBA have players from all over the world some of which may have issues from history with Britain some who will not. Attention seeking of the worst kind IMO.

[Bostonhibby]

England are showing how it should be done re sectarianism by handing Kirk Broadfoot (remember him?) a ten-game ban for anti-Catholic abuse against James McClean in a friendly.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rotherham-defender-kirk-broadfoot-handed-6127136

Wonder how long a ban he'd be given if he was still playing for the Huns?
Yet more evidence of why football in England doesn't need any of the bigot twins joining the gravy train.

[jdships]

Sectarianism in general was one of the reasons I " stopped doing religion " 35 years ago
I saw it at work and socially and waited and waited for the " establishment"" to condemn it - Not a squeak !
Religion = hypocrisy sadly

[green&left]

No one asked him to sing it just show a bit if respect to the country that he is making a living in and also the American anthem as well. Hardly a big deal I would have thought. No type of Britishness was forced on anyone in this instance. No doubt WBA have players from all over the world some of which may have issues from history with Britain some who will not. Attention seeking of the worst kind IMO.

*** anthems, minute silences for everything and everyone, troops marching about the place.

When did fitba became some nationalist pantomime.

Fair play to him. You get ejjits shouting from the rooftops they fought for your free speech. Then whinging like **** when the lad uses that free speech to not wear a poppy or in this case not be upstanding for the british national anthem. Couldn't make it up :faf:

[JimBHibees]

*** anthems, minute silences for everything and everyone, troops marching about the place.

When did fitba became some nationalist pantomime.

Fair play to him. You get ejjits shouting from the rooftops they fought for your free speech. Then whinging like **** when the lad uses that free speech to not wear a poppy or in this case not be upstanding for the british national anthem. Couldn't make it up :faf:

The game was in America.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

No sure that it is true to say that this comes from a protestant culture. Comes from the racists and bigots within that culture who look to twist things

[CropleyWasGod]

*** anthems, minute silences for everything and everyone, troops marching about the place.

When did fitba became some nationalist pantomime.

Fair play to him. You get ejjits shouting from the rooftops they fought for your free speech. Then whinging like **** when the lad uses that free speech to not wear a poppy or in this case not be upstanding for the british national anthem. Couldn't make it up :faf:

... but he feels it's okay to work in a country of which he doesn't approve?

:confused:

[Keith_M]

What was pathetic about it? Why should people just go along with stuff they don't agree with? The British national anthem being played at a club friendly, what the **** is that all about? If they played it at Easter Road for a club game I would hope we would boo it.

He only turned his back which I think given his history is an entirely appropriate protest. A certain type of Britishness is being forced on us all at the moment and I think it is right to resist it.


Vinni, this seems to be the norm in the US, even though it's probably stupid to most of us. They play their own national anthem before loads of sporting and other events (even concerts!).

Even though I thnk it's daft, there was nothing to stop the guy just standing with his head bowed, instead of making a point of turning away.

FWIW, I support his right not to wear a Poppy, if he so chooses. I think this forced poppy wearing is a total nonsense and it should be up to the individual whether they wear one or not. I've never worn a Poppy but I'm not going to go into the reason why (suffice it to say, it has nothing to do with the Northern Irish sectarian divide). It's my choice and no one should force someone else to make a gesture purely for good PR.

[HappyHanlon]

I can't believe we had that bigot on our books!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Its been a good couple of weeks since we had one of these threads. Popcorn time.

[Colr]

says everything about the type of person kirk clubfoot is, i've thought for years now that our neighbours over the border must think this country is truly backwards when it comes to religious bigotry

We do - especially those of us from Scotland.

[Colr]

I would agree if he never done anything to aggrevate the situation. Doesn't excuse broadfoots actions but MacLean is a knob who is just as bigoted as broadfoot

It not religion it's tribalism.

[Geo_1875]

I would agree if he never done anything to aggrevate the situation. Doesn't excuse broadfoots actions but MacLean is a knob who is just as bigoted as broadfoot

Refusing to toe the party line doesn't make you a bigot. Conscientious objection isn't a crime outside of wartime.

[superfurryhibby]

... but he feels it's okay to work in a country of which he doesn't approve?

:confused:

I don't approve of the British government, should I leave the country then? As for the USA, I won't even begin.

Broadfoot is getting what he deserves. Shame our own football authorities lack the bawz to take a similar stance.

[Sir David Gray]

I've no time for Kirk Broadfoot as a player and if he said something out of order then he deserves a punishment (i say "if" because the article doesn't actually specify what he said) however I really cannot stand James McClean.

If I hated a country as much as James McClean appears to hate the UK, I wouldn't live and work in that country.

No-one asked him to sing GSTQ before that match, just to show a wee bit of decorum and he couldn't even manage that. Instead he acted like a fool and brought all the attention on himself. If that was an isolated incident then you could maybe forgive him but he also had all the carry on with the refusal to wear a poppy on his jersey for Remembrance Day.

He needs to grow up.

[calmac12000]

:hmmm: Whatever could they mean? Is that a polite way of saying he's a big dirty orange *******?

[bigwheel]

I would agree if he never done anything to aggrevate the situation. Doesn't excuse broadfoots actions but MacLean is a knob who is just as bigoted as broadfoot

You have to judge actions at the time - he suffered sectarian abuse ...he deserves support - if he was the abuser , then likewise he would deserve to be punished. In this case , he was the victim

[bigwheel]

I've no time for Kirk Broadfoot as a player and if he said something out of order then he deserves a punishment (i say "if" because the article doesn't actually specify what he said) however I really cannot stand James McClean.

If I hated a country as much as James McClean appears to hate the UK, I wouldn't live and work in that country.

No-one asked him to sing GSTQ before that match, just to show a wee bit of decorum and he couldn't even manage that. Instead he acted like a fool and brought all the attention on himself. If that was an isolated incident then you could maybe forgive him but he also had all the carry on with the refusal to wear a poppy on his jersey for Remembrance Day.

He needs to grow up.

Why do you think he hates the country ? Because he refused to stand for the anthem ? Are people not allowed different beliefs ? I wouldn't stand for the British anthem if I could avoid it ...does that make me hate England ??

[Pretty Boy]

Rotherham fans will be delighted.

[Keith_M]

All of the above discussion aside, I still support the English FA's strong line on sectarian abuse.

[Andy74]

I've no time for Kirk Broadfoot as a player and if he said something out of order then he deserves a punishment (i say "if" because the article doesn't actually specify what he said) however I really cannot stand James McClean.

If I hated a country as much as James McClean appears to hate the UK, I wouldn't live and work in that country.

No-one asked him to sing GSTQ before that match, just to show a wee bit of decorum and he couldn't even manage that. Instead he acted like a fool and brought all the attention on himself. If that was an isolated incident then you could maybe forgive him but he also had all the carry on with the refusal to wear a poppy on his jersey for Remembrance Day.

He needs to grow up.

James McLean was born in the UK. Why should he move out?

I think its difficult to understand from the outside the impact of growing up in what would have been a minority in Derry during a difficult period.

He has been brought up seeing and hearing about actions being carried out under the British flag. It's not abour religion its about real life treatment of people.

He isn't practicing hatred against anyone, he is just refusing to join in with organised signs of respect for something he obviously has no respect for. I don't think it makes him a bigot.

[liamh2202]

What was pathetic about it? Why should people just go along with stuff they don't agree with? The British national anthem being played at a club friendly, what the **** is that all about? If they played it at Easter Road for a club game I would hope we would boo it.

He only turned his back which I think given his history is an entirely appropriate protest. A certain type of Britishness is being forced on us all at the moment and I think it is right to resist it.

What if it was flower of Scotland being played? It was the national anthem of the club he plays for . played as is customary before an american sporting event. All he proved was he's a classless twat. And an attention seeker

[ancient hibee]

Why do you think he hates the country ? Because he refused to stand for the anthem ? Are people not allowed different beliefs ? I wouldn't stand for the British anthem if I could avoid it ...does that make me hate England ??

No it makes you very confused-it's the UK national anthem what's that to do with whether or not you hate England.

[bigwheel]

No it makes you very confused-it's the UK national anthem what's that to do with whether or not you hate England.

I used the term deliberately

At one time the words were this

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.


My main point is just be cause he chooses to not respect the anthem - doesn't mean he hates the country

[Smartie]

All of the above discussion aside, I still support the English FA's strong line on sectarian abuse.

:agree:

As you say, all other discussion aside that is by far the most important thing to take from this.

If you don't want sectarianism then take a zero-tolerance, heavy punishing, nae whataboutery whatsoever line on it and watch it disappear. Good on the FA for having the nuts to do what they've done, outstanding.

I'm not a massive fan of the over-hyped English Premier League and all that goes with it. But I have been seriously impressed with the way that the FA have gone about certain things - goal-line technology, professional referees and I've been impressed with the way that they have pursued that corruption within FIFA and refused to let it lie whilst the rest of the world seemed to just accept it. They led from the front and that seems to be getting results.

If only our authorities were in the same league. Small-minded, OF- obsessed, backward, corrupt technophobes.

[liamh2202]

I used the term deliberately

At one time the words were this

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.


My main point is just be cause he chooses to not respect the anthem - doesn't mean he hates the country

At one time before it was the UK national anthem ;)

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

:agree:

As you say, all other discussion aside that is by far the most important thing to take from this.

If you don't want sectarianism then take a zero-tolerance, heavy punishing, nae whataboutery whatsoever line on it and watch it disappear. Good on the FA for having the nuts to do what they've done, outstanding.

I'm not a massive fan of the over-hyped English Premier League and all that goes with it. But I have been seriously impressed with the way that the FA have gone about certain things - goal-line technology, professional referees and I've been impressed with the way that they have pursued that corruption within FIFA and refused to let it lie whilst the rest of the world seemed to just accept it. They led from the front and that seems to be getting results.

If only our authorities were in the same league. Small-minded, OF- obsessed, backward, corrupt technophobes.

Obviously the money they get from SKY doesnae help some of these things at all.

[Colr]

I used the term deliberately

At one time the words were this

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.



Only briefly and not in the original song.

Its like saying that the Beatles were racist because they wrote Yellow Submarine and Hibs fans changed the words!

[brog]

Interesting article in Guardian re this & the DR expurgated version!

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/24/daily-record-sanitises-story-of-player-banned-for-sectarian-tirade

[Smartie]

Obviously the money they get from SKY doesnae help some of these things at all.

When you talk your game up and not down then companies like SKY tend to want to pay a bit more for it.

Barry Hearn had the right idea.

[Iggy Pope]

Kirk Broadfoot, once on our books is that right? Do we not run a check on these ****s first? Whelehan and Hannan must be spinning in their graves.

[PatHead]

Seemingly all the members of his family have the initials KB (King Billy) his father, brother and sister and I am sure that will not be a co-incidence. (Sure they are not all the same person.)

But he does have the IQ of someone who injured himself with an egg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8051673.stm

[bigwheel]

Only briefly and not in the original song.

Its like saying that the Beatles were racist because they wrote Yellow Submarine and Hibs fans changed the words!


yes, only when the Jacobite's dared to rebel....doesn't make me (personally) feel anymore affinity to the song....not quite the same as your Beatles analogy...anyway...that wasn't the material point I was making

[marinello59]

I used the term deliberately

At one time the words were this

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.


My main point is just be cause he chooses to not respect the anthem - doesn't mean he hates the country

They were never the words of the National Anthem. They originally appeared in a privately published pamphlet, the equivalent of an Internet forum at the time. The only people who ever quote those words are Scots looking for another reason to have a chip on their shoulder.

[bigwheel]

They were never the words of the National Anthem. They originally appeared in a privately published pamphlet, the equivalent of an Internet forum at the time. The only people who ever quote those words are Scots looking for another reason to have a chip on their shoulder.


or people who make sweeping generalisations

[marinello59]

or people who make sweeping generalisations

Ill acknowledge that as a fair point. I should have said the only time I see it used is by Scots looking for more reasons to resent England. Maybe you could also acknowledge that your claim that those were ever the words to the National Anthem is wrong.

[marinello59]

No it makes you very confused-it's the UK national anthem what's that to do with whether or not you hate England.

I don't stand for the National Anthem and I wouldn't expect others to. The player was perfectly entitled not to wear a Poppy. There are plenty more of proud Brits who won't wear it either for various reasons.
Turning your back on the flag of a nation you are perfectly happy to make a living in does seem ill advised. His choice but surely just staring ahead would have been enough. He is the victim here though. The Hun is a bigoted arse.
At last he has finally got some sort of punishment. The SFA should be ashamed but sadly they won't give a toss.

[bigwheel]

Ill acknowledge that as a fair point. I should have said the only time I see it used is by Scots looking for more reasons to resent England. Maybe you could also acknowledge that your claim that those were ever the words to the National Anthem is wrong.



That's fair..it was sung by anti- jacobites during a time of rebellion...to them it was their version of the anthem...hate filled..not unlike it's used today at times.

For me , the Anthem is important in this discussion thread. I personally wouldn't sing it. I don't believe in God, nor am I supportive of the Monarchy. I find it elitist. The song itself has long since been adopted by those with far right political views as a tribal chant of (at times) hate, certainly discriminatory. We will hear it sung tomorrow in that guise. Just because of those views, don't suggest it means someone has a narrow minded chip on their shoulder, or "hates the English". I lived in London for 10 years - love it and still do. My business takes me all across Europe and beyond. I spent this week with Spanish, Portuguese, English, Irish and Dutch people...magic! Mix of cultures is a superb environment. Doesn't change my view on monarchy though or the anthem.

I don't know James McClean's views. I could hazard a guess at them, but if his belief system is not to support the UK anthem, then I respect his choice. People seem to be creating him as an "England Hater", because he chose to take a stand. Now that seems narrow minded to me..

[Scouse Hibee]

Sectarianism ......a word I only learned about when I came to Scotland.

[Nameless]

An act of disrespect towards a national icon, is an act of disrespect against the nation itself. You can't hate an inanimate object like a flag, but you can hate what it represents - what does a flag represent? It represents a nation and its people. McLean is as much a bigot as Broadfoot, but he gets to pretend his hatred is nationalism and patriotism. The two of them need to grow up, it's pathetic that adults carry on in this fashion - it's 2015. I doubt VERY MUCH, that many people of either persuasion across the Irish sea*are*impressed by the antics of foolish men and their ignorant stupidity.

[bigwheel]

Sectarianism ......a word I only learned about when I came to Scotland.


Have a read about Liverpool from 1840's onwards...it was once dubbed the "The Belfast of England". Maybe the sectarian riots in Liverpool in 1909??...It's part of this country's heritage, like it or not. Unfortunately, a group of people still to have that belief system..

[bigwheel]

An act of disrespect towards a national icon, is an act of disrespect against the nation itself. You can't hate an inanimate object like a flag, but you can hate what it represents - what does a flag represent? It represents a nation and its people. McLean is as much a bigot as Broadfoot, but he gets to pretend his hatred is nationalism and patriotism. The two of them need to grow up, it's pathetic that adults carry on in this fashion - it's 2015. I doubt VERY MUCH, that many people of either persuasion across the Irish sea*are*impressed by the antics of foolish men and their ignorant stupidity.


McLean may be a bigot, I genuinely don't know...but that point in bold is utter rubbish...

[Nameless]

McLean may be a bigot, I genuinely don't know...but that point in bold is utter rubbish...

Why? Do you disrespect a song or a flag because you dislike it, or what it is symbolic of? An act of disrespect against a national flag or anthem is directed at the nation itself. If you disagree, please tell me what else a flag or anthem represents?

[bigwheel]

Why? Do you disrespect a song or a flag because you dislike it, or what it is symbolic of? An act of disrespect against a national flag or anthem is directed at the nation itself. If you disagree, please tell me what else a flag or anthem represents?

An anthem is simply a hymn sung as a mark of loyalty to the nation. Ours is also sung as loyalty to our Monarch. Why should a young Irish man sing that? To suggest that not signing it is an act of disrespect against an entire nation is hyperbole in the extreme.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Totally understand the anthem bit and not singing it.Why would he? Ihave had to stand for many anthems in my life and sung none of them.Knowing the words might havehelped right enough.No need to turn his back on the flagthough in my opinion.

[Smartie]

An act of disrespect towards a national icon, is an act of disrespect against the nation itself. You can't hate an inanimate object like a flag, but you can hate what it represents - what does a flag represent? It represents a nation and its people. McLean is as much a bigot as Broadfoot, but he gets to pretend his hatred is nationalism and patriotism. The two of them need to grow up, it's pathetic that adults carry on in this fashion - it's 2015. I doubt VERY MUCH, that many people of either persuasion across the Irish sea*are*impressed by the antics of foolish men and their ignorant stupidity.

Loads of people will be impressed with their nonsense. There are plenty of like-minded idiots over there who remain determined to keep the country in the dark ages. They are the type that board the boats each weekend to come and sing their p!sh at Ibrox and Parkhead.

Fortunately they are in a dwindling minority and the vast majority of that truly brilliant part of the world have woken up and realised that there is a far better way to live your life and are now openly able to co-operate with one another.


I have a bit of sympathy for McLean. He is from a tough part of the world and he'll have had a particular exposure to certain things so some of his actions are understandable. He's not condoning terrorism, he's not carrying out violent acts - he's carrying out quiet, dignified protests in a way that he chooses.

I'd say the same if we were talking about a Northern Irish protestant, someone from say the Shankill Road area of Belfast whose family and friends may have suffered at the hands of the IRA. If they had chosen to make a living playing football in the Republic of Ireland should they be expected to sing the Irish National Anthem and go along with all the traditions that go with it? Actually I think this may have happened with rugby players in the past, from Ulster but playing for "Ireland" at rugby….


You can't excuse Broadfoot. He's an utter helmet, exactly the kind of pr!ck that this country specialises in producing and it's shameful for us that he's carrying out that nonsense outwith our borders. We don't want to get known for exporting that nonsense. For way too long has this stuff been dismissed and played down up here and I'm sick of it. We've not had trouble in our land the like of which the Northern Irish have and it's always been a mystery to me why so many imbeciles from within our shores are drawn to either side of the Irish problems. And yes, I'd say the same if it was one of your Cambuslang/ Greenock/ Port Glasgow or wherever pseudo-republicans as well, having a go at an Ivan Sproule/ Dean Shiels or whoever.

[bigwheel]

Loads of people will be impressed with their nonsense. There are plenty of like-minded idiots over there who remain determined to keep the country in the dark ages. They are the type that board the boats each weekend to come and sing their p!sh at Ibrox and Parkhead.

Fortunately they are in a dwindling minority and the vast majority of that truly brilliant part of the world have woken up and realised that there is a far better way to live your life and are now openly able to co-operate with one another.


I have a bit of sympathy for McLean. He is from a tough part of the world and he'll have had a particular exposure to certain things so some of his actions are understandable. He's not condoning terrorism, he's not carrying out violent acts - he's carrying out quiet, dignified protests in a way that he chooses.

I'd say the same if we were talking about a Northern Irish protestant, someone from say the Shankill Road area of Belfast whose family and friends may have suffered at the hands of the IRA. If they had chosen to make a living playing football in the Republic of Ireland should they be expected to sing the Irish National Anthem and go along with all the traditions that go with it? Actually I think this may have happened with rugby players in the past, from Ulster but playing for "Ireland" at rugby….


You can't excuse Broadfoot. He's an utter helmet, exactly the kind of pr!ck that this country specialises in producing and it's shameful for us that he's carrying out that nonsense outwith our borders. We don't want to get known for exporting that nonsense. For way too long has this stuff been dismissing and played down up here and I'm sick of it. We've not had trouble in our land the like of which the Northern Irish have and it's always been a mystery to me why so many imbeciles from within our shores are drawn to either side of the Irish problems. And yes, I'd say the same if it was one of your Cambuslang/ Greenock/ Port Glasgow or wherever pseudo-republicans as well, having a go at an Ivan Sproule/ Dean Shiels or whoever.


good summary to me...

[Nameless]

An anthem is simply a hymn sung as a mark of loyalty to the nation. Ours is also sung as loyalty to our Monarch. Why should a young Irish man sing that? To suggest that not signing it is an act of disrespect against an entire nation is hyperbole in the extreme.
I would protect his right not to sing it with every argument I have. I think singing the anthem of another country is....silly. My point is against him turning his back on the flag. As another has said, show some class and bow your head - or better still hold your head high and face your "oppressors" flag with dignity. To make a blatant display, is just attention seeking not furthering a cause.

[Nameless]

Loads of people will be impressed with their nonsense. There are plenty of like-minded idiots over there who remain determined to keep the country in the dark ages. They are the type that board the boats each weekend to come and sing their p!sh at Ibrox and Parkhead.

Fortunately they are in a dwindling minority and the vast majority of that truly brilliant part of the world have woken up and realised that there is a far better way to live your life and are now openly able to co-operate with one another.


I have a bit of sympathy for McLean. He is from a tough part of the world and he'll have had a particular exposure to certain things so some of his actions are understandable. He's not condoning terrorism, he's not carrying out violent acts - he's carrying out quiet, dignified protests in a way that he chooses.

I'd say the same if we were talking about a Northern Irish protestant, someone from say the Shankill Road area of Belfast whose family and friends may have suffered at the hands of the IRA. If they had chosen to make a living playing football in the Republic of Ireland should they be expected to sing the Irish National Anthem and go along with all the traditions that go with it? Actually I think this may have happened with rugby players in the past, from Ulster but playing for "Ireland" at rugby….


You can't excuse Broadfoot. He's an utter helmet, exactly the kind of pr!ck that this country specialises in producing and it's shameful for us that he's carrying out that nonsense outwith our borders. We don't want to get known for exporting that nonsense. For way too long has this stuff been dismissing and played down up here and I'm sick of it. We've not had trouble in our land the like of which the Northern Irish have and it's always been a mystery to me why so many imbeciles from within our shores are drawn to either side of the Irish problems. And yes, I'd say the same if it was one of your Cambuslang/ Greenock/ Port Glasgow or wherever pseudo-republicans as well, having a go at an Ivan Sproule/ Dean Shiels or whoever.

I can't disagree with that - good post.

[bigwheel]

I would protect his right not to sing it with every argument I have. I think singing the anthem of another country is....silly. My point is against him turning his back on the flag. As another has said, show some class and bow your head - or better still hold your head high and face your "oppressors" flag with dignity. To make a blatant display, is just attention seeking not furthering a cause.



To be fair, you were going off on a deep "disrespecting the whole nation" point which was way over the top....I guess my simple point is why be offended though - I personally wouldn't do it, but if he had the boldness to make a statement - whether it was ego, showing off, or a deep belief system...Doesn't he have the right? It seems a bit immature to me, but I respect his personal choice.

We have an appalling heritage of oppression all around the world ...so if one kid chooses to make a stance - then to me, fair play. We probably deserve it.

[Nameless]

Doesn't he have the right? It seems a bit immature to me, but I respect his personal choice

We agree on that - I respect anyone's right to protest, I just think his attempt is a bit contrived.

[bigwheel]

We agree on that - I respect anyone's right to protest, I just think his attempt is a bit contrived.


I agree on that too....but respect his boldness in a way...

[LiverpoolHibs]

An act of disrespect towards a national icon, is an act of disrespect against the nation itself. You can't hate an inanimate object like a flag, but you can hate what it represents - what does a flag represent? It represents a nation and its people. McLean is as much a bigot as Broadfoot, but he gets to pretend his hatred is nationalism and patriotism. The two of them need to grow up, it's pathetic that adults carry on in this fashion - it's 2015. I doubt VERY MUCH, that many people of either persuasion across the Irish sea*are*impressed by the antics of foolish men and their ignorant stupidity.


Why? Do you disrespect a song or a flag because you dislike it, or what it is symbolic of? An act of disrespect against a national flag or anthem is directed at the nation itself. If you disagree, please tell me what else a flag or anthem represents?

It's smashing you're making this argument while you have the picture you do as an avatar.

[Nameless]

It's smashing you're making this argument while you have the picture you do as an avatar.
I was waiting for someone to mention that - please tell me you recognise the vast difference in circumstances.

[Pretty Boy]

I was waiting for someone to mention that - please tell me you recognise the vast difference in circumstances.

The treatments of blacks pre and during the civil rights struggle in the US and the treatment of Catholics in Northen Ireland pre the civil rights advances in the early to mid 1960s aren't that vastly different.

[bigwheel]

The treatments of blacks pre and during the civil rights struggle in the US and the treatment of Catholics in Northen Ireland pre the civil rights advances in the early to mid 1960s aren't that vastly different.


Completely agree with this....

[Nameless]

The treatments of blacks pre and during the civil rights struggle in the US and the treatment of Catholics in Northen Ireland pre the civil rights advances in the early to mid 1960s aren't that vastly different.

His raised hand salute, in such a public setting, drew the world's attention to the plight of the blacks in America. What current plight is McLean drawing the world's attention to?

[Pretty Boy]

His raised hand salute, in such a public setting, drew the world's attention to the plight of the blacks in America. What current plight is McLean drawing the world's attention to?

In later years perhaps, the contemporary mainstream response was generally critical.

I don't think McLean was making any real point with his actions, on this occasion at least, but his background may well mean he feels the same way about the British state as Tommie Smith et all felt about the 60s US establishment.

[Sir David Gray]

Why do you think he hates the country ? Because he refused to stand for the anthem ? Are people not allowed different beliefs ? I wouldn't stand for the British anthem if I could avoid it ...does that make me hate England ??

Not just this, there's also the incident with the refusal to wear the poppy on his shirt for Remembrance Day. Perhaps "hate" was a bit strong but he clearly has a major issue with respecting British customs. If I had as much of a problem with my country's traditions and customs then I would move out.


James McLean was born in the UK. Why should he move out?

I think its difficult to understand from the outside the impact of growing up in what would have been a minority in Derry during a difficult period.

He has been brought up seeing and hearing about actions being carried out under the British flag. It's not abour religion its about real life treatment of people.

He isn't practicing hatred against anyone, he is just refusing to join in with organised signs of respect for something he obviously has no respect for. I don't think it makes him a bigot.

I know he was born in the UK but he clearly identifies more with being Irish than he does with being British and if that's the way he feels then that's fine. All I'm saying is, if I felt the same way about the UK as he does then I wouldn't wish to live there anymore and I would make sure that I moved somewhere else.

I wouldn't expect him to sing GSTQ (I wouldn't sing it either) but to turn his back on the flag and bow his head during the anthem whilst the rest of his team mates are singing it really isn't on and it just brings embarrassment upon the club. Presumably he didn't tell Tony Pulis before the game about his intentions either and that just shows him up to be really immature in my book.

I've no time at all for this sort of behaviour.

[liamh2202]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11750741/James-McCleans-snub-to-Englands-flag-was-disgraceful-if-he-hates-it-so-much-he-should-leave-the-Premier-League.html

Sums it up for me

[Sir David Gray]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11750741/James-McCleans-snub-to-Englands-flag-was-disgraceful-if-he-hates-it-so-much-he-should-leave-the-Premier-League.html

Sums it up for me

Yep and me.

Good article.

[Colr]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11750741/James-McCleans-snub-to-Englands-flag-was-disgraceful-if-he-hates-it-so-much-he-should-leave-the-Premier-League.html

Sums it up for me

Agreed.

[Purple & Green]

Was broadfoot binned from Hibs for off the field issues? Vague recollection I've got.

McClean is a funny old thing. There's plenty of people who were directly involved in the troubles who have moved on through truth and reconciliation - his protests seem petty, unnecessary and disrespectful to his current employers and fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

Not just this, there's also the incident with the refusal to wear the poppy on his shirt for Remembrance Day. Perhaps "hate" was a bit strong but he clearly has a major issue with respecting British customs. If I had as much of a problem with my country's traditions and customs then I would move out.



I'm sorry Trig but I have to strongly disagree with that point of view.


I think the guy can rightly be slated for deliberately disrepecting the national anthem. OK, he has issues with it, so he could have just stood there with his head bowed, not deliberately turn away and make a deliberate show of disrespect. I myself have issue with the words of the Irish National Anthem but I would never show such public disrespect to the people of Ireland by doing what he did.


However, the issue with the Poppy is completely different. The wearing of a Poppy has now become such an enormously contentious issue, where people complain en-masse if even one person is seen on TV without one. They then infer a lack of respect for the war dead, the British Establishment, et al.

At no point does it occur to people the irony of talking up the fight for freedom and against oppression, while at the same time trying to force their views on other people. There are also many reasons for not wearing a Poppy and some of the implications are, quite frankly, over the top. I've never in my life worn a Poppy. I have my reasons (not the same as his), which will stay private, but that does not mean I have no respect for the sacrifices made during the war or have no pity for the wounded of various conflicts.

People should be allowed to choose something like this and not have it forced upon them for a PR stunt by a Football Club, something that has only come into vogue in recent years, as a response to the over the top criticism I mentioned earlier.

[Canon Hannan]

Well done the English FA. Stamping out this evil man's hate. Pity the SFA cannot follow their rules of deducting points for sectarian singing? It is easy - when fans sing a song of religious hate deduct points. Only SEVCO will be effected, not Hearts, Hibs or Celtic.

[cabbageandribs1875]

heard on the radio 3 south stand bigots were arrested for sectarian singing at the game today(lets be honest..it should have been 3000) and sevco could be in trouble for the party songs :rolleyes: aye RIGHT

[anon1875]

I like James McClean and I think he's bloody brave. Erin Go Bragh.

[ronaldo7]

I like James McClean and I think he's bloody brave. Erin Go Bragh.

Here are McClean's reasons for not wearing a poppy.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/07/wigan-james-mcclean-poppy-bolton

I'm sure he has reasons why he turned away from a piece of cloth too. Has anyone asked him?

[Baader]

Good on the FA. Sectarian bigotry is a huge blight on Scottish football and Scottish society. An absolute embarrassment.

Broadfoot has always been a complete imbecile of a man. Only player I can recall being injured after an egg he put in a microwave exploded in his face. Kind of sums up the level of intelligence you are dealing with...

[Stranraer]

Typical hun.

At last the FA are doing something right.

[superfurryhibby]

Interesting debate and largely respectful to each other's very differing views.

I struggle with the idea that Someone should leave Britain and not warn a living when they are supposedly British born.

I personally want to dismantle the British state and choose to exercise my democratic right to vote and join a political party with that aim. That would not be exclusive to working in Engalnd, which also happens to be the place of birth for my grandfather and a whole branch of my extended family.

As an aside. Why were the Polis letting Huns put there arms around them for photos after the game. Doesn't that fuel the Polis are Proddies ***** that the Huns believe? They should be a bit smarter than that in my view.