The Royal Kettle/Teapot Syndrome

[snooky]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/17/europe/uk-duke-edinburgh-sponge-gaffe/index.html

A quote from the Grand Duke of Spongeland himself.

[Future17]

It can't be much longer before they have to stop rolling him out.

[steakbake]

I really hate the way these are affectionately reported as 'gaffes'.

[Hibs Class]

I really hate the way these are affectionately reported as 'gaffes'.

:agree: or the quote at the end of the article "That is just typical from the Duke. He is renowned for his humour". I think if you asked folk what he is renowned for, humour would not be top of the list.

[snooky]

I really hate the way these are affectionately reported as 'gaffes'.

After he left, I'll bet the Duke's poor wee spongers were saying "Oh how we laughed".

What a royal roaster.

Has this quote been widely reported here in the UK? Just wondered, as the link above is to a CNN report.

[Sir David Gray]

After he left, I'll bet the Duke's poor wee spongers were saying "Oh how we laughed".

What a royal roaster.

Has this quote been widely reported here in the UK? Just wondered, as the link above is to a CNN report.

Sky News certainly mentioned it during their press review last night.

[Pete]

Why are these two still at the top of the royal tree? They should have stepped aside years ago and let Charles have a shot...or even William.

Maybe more people would accept the monarchy if it was a bit fresher. What's the point in all their good PR if we have this idiot kicking about and a 100 year old queen?

Maybe nobody has told them the age you can start getting your state pension.

[Mr White]

While I don't agree with having a monarchy I actually quite like prince Phillip. Some of his quotes are legendary. How do you keep the locals off the sauce long enough to pass? to a scottish driving instructor :tee hee: way more entertaining than the rest of the royals.

[green glory]

Oh dear. Awaits apologists.

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[hibbybrian]

Oh dear. Awaits apologists.

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Certainly not an apologist, but five years later in 1938 . . . .

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[Betty Boop]

Oh dear. Awaits apologists.

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I can understand folk defending the Queen, who was six at the time. However the Queen Mother ?

[Peevemor]

In 1933 the Nazi salute (Hitler greeting) was made more or less compulsory in Germany. Could they just be practising for a visit or something?

[Hibrandenburg]

I can understand folk defending the Queen, who was six at the time. However the Queen Mother ?

:agree: You have to be careful what you do and say in front of the kids.

[Betty Boop]

:agree: You have to be careful what you do and say in front of the kids.


:greengrin

[Beefster]

Certainly not an apologist, but five years later in 1938 . . . .

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The England team were in Berlin and were instructed by the government to salute. Blame appeasement rather than the players.

[Gatecrasher]

Oh dear. Awaits apologists.

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Did hitler not only come into power in 1933? Would they have even known what was about to happen at this point (6 years before war)? Yeah it looks bad now but it might not have been bad then. It's pretty easy to look back now and make smarmy comments when none of us were alive then.

[ronaldo7]

The England team were in Berlin and were instructed by the government to salute. Blame appeasement rather than the players.

We can't know what people would be like back then, but, looking forward would it be like thinking that Isis is good, and people could join them to "Free the world"?

[Peevemor]

Did hitler not only come into power in 1933? Would they have even known what was about to happen at this point (6 years before war)? Yeah it looks bad now but it might not have been bad then. It's pretty easy to look back now and make smarmy comments when none of us were alive then.

Exactly. I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to the royal family, but this is just sensationalist pish taken completely out of context.

[Scouse Hibee]

Sensationalist pish from a ****** rag, how the hell can they peddle this nonsense, talk about scraping the bottom of a very deep barrel.

[ronaldo7]

In 1933 the Nazi salute (Hitler greeting) was made more or less compulsory in Germany. Could they just be practising for a visit or something?

15156

Seems to have carried on for a wee while.

[liamh2202]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/12/27/1225813/996967-prince-harry-in-nazi-uniform.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/weird/military-reenactment-society-members-criticised-for-wearing-nazi-uniforms-to-function/story-e6frev20-1225813997001&h=421&w=316&tbnid=1ttKD7slzC7q3M:&docid=8mPifhm9ctR6dM&hl=en-GB&ei=EsWqVYDpOIGwU6yQoMAI&tbm=isch&client=ms-android-h3g-gb&ved=0CCAQMygDMANqFQoTCIC68OzP5cYCFQHYFAodLAgIiA

Haha can't believe people get upset over nonsense

[Future17]

Exactly. I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to the royal family, but this is just sensationalist pish taken completely out of context.


Sensationalist pish from a ****** rag, how the hell can they peddle this nonsense, talk about scraping the bottom of a very deep barrel.

I'm no fan of The Sun but in what way is it "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? :confused:

[liamh2202]

I'm no fan of The Sun but in what way is it "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? :confused:

Because they have dug up a picture of something that is now regarded as a nono but at the time it was taken was perfectly acceptable. Especially for visitors to Germany?

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm no fan of The Sun but in what way is it "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? :confused:

Are you having a laugh? Have you read the headline or the other script.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I'd love it if the "royal family" had absolutely nothing to do with the Republic of Scotland, but this story is a load of pish, tabloid gash. Newspaper sensationalist rubbish. Or is it ?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Are you having a laugh? Have you read the headline or the other script.

Is your judgement clouded because it's the Sun newspaper ?

[Scouse Hibee]

Is your judgement clouded because it's the Sun newspaper ?

My judgement would be exactly the same what ever the paper.

[Future17]

Are you having a laugh? Have you read the headline or the other script.

The headline is the sort of awful attempt at some sort of pun that all tabloids churn out for reasons unbeknownst to most of us, but it's not sensationalist. The sub-heading says "Secret 1933 film shows Edward VIII teaching this Nazi salute to the Queen" which, in the absence of any other explanation, appears to be exactly what is happening.

I haven't read the full story in the paper itself as I would never lower myself, but I have read the analysis by a variety of media outlets. It seems clear that the story is in no way insinuating that the Queen was a Nazi sympathiser and cites evidence to the contrary. However, it does review Edward's alleged sympathies of that ilk and his various related actions which have been the subject of scrutiny previously.

In what way is that "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? I would think most people would consider the story (which essentially is the discovery of the historical footage) to be of public interest. I've got close to zero interest in the Royal Family and I find it interesting. In fact, if this footage came into the possession of a national media outlet and was suppressed, I'd find that extremely troublesome.

[Scouse Hibee]

The headline is the sort of awful attempt at some sort of pun that all tabloids churn out for reasons unbeknownst to most of us, but it's not sensationalist. The sub-heading says "Secret 1933 film shows Edward VIII teaching this Nazi salute to the Queen" which, in the absence of any other explanation, appears to be exactly what is happening.

I haven't read the full story in the paper itself as I would never lower myself, but I have read the analysis by a variety of media outlets. It seems clear that the story is in no way insinuating that the Queen was a Nazi sympathiser and cites evidence to the contrary. However, it does review Edward's alleged sympathies of that ilk and his various related actions which have been the subject of scrutiny previously.

In what way is that "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? I would think most people would consider the story (which essentially is the discovery of the historical footage) to be of public interest. I've got close to zero interest in the Royal Family and I find it interesting. In fact, if this footage came into the possession of a national media outlet and was suppressed, I'd find that extremely troublesome.

Well if that headline, pictures and the initial message it sends out is not sensationalist I'm a Scotsman!

[Peevemor]

The headline is the sort of awful attempt at some sort of pun that all tabloids churn out for reasons unbeknownst to most of us, but it's not sensationalist. The sub-heading says "Secret 1933 film shows Edward VIII teaching this Nazi salute to the Queen" which, in the absence of any other explanation, appears to be exactly what is happening.

I haven't read the full story in the paper itself as I would never lower myself, but I have read the analysis by a variety of media outlets. It seems clear that the story is in no way insinuating that the Queen was a Nazi sympathiser and cites evidence to the contrary. However, it does review Edward's alleged sympathies of that ilk and his various related actions which have been the subject of scrutiny previously.

In what way is that "sensationalist" or "nonsense"? I would think most people would consider the story (which essentially is the discovery of the historical footage) to be of public interest. I've got close to zero interest in the Royal Family and I find it interesting. In fact, if this footage came into the possession of a national media outlet and was suppressed, I'd find that extremely troublesome.

It's sensationalist because of the banner headline and the "story" spread across 7 pages.

[Hibs Class]

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[Scouse Hibee]

15157

Brilliant!

[Keith_M]

I'm a republican* and would be very happy if this anachronism were removed but I personally think too much is being read into that picture. The 'Nazi' salute has connotations attached with the benefit of hindsight but, at the time, it's possible they thought it good manners to do this, possibly in preparation for a state visit.

Oh and the current queen was a small child at the time, merely doing as instructed.





* For those of slow mind, this is NOT the same as an 'Irish Republican'.

[Future17]

Well if that headline, pictures and the initial message it sends out is not sensationalist I'm a Scotsman!


It's sensationalist because of the banner headline and the "story" spread across 7 pages.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

In 1933 it was common for people in Britain to take the piss out of the Nazi salute. Hitler had only just come to power and was seen as a bit of a joke figure. No one knew what would happen six years later as he dragged Europe into war.
It is sensationalist but that is the sun to a tee. There were real news stories happening but they thought that an 80 year old silent family movie that no one knows what was really going on is best they can have on the front page. Newspapers will be a thing of the past within the next 20 years due to nonsense like this. I prefer to look at news online from different sources so I can make up my own mind about what i read

[Colr]

In 1933 it was common for people in Britain to take the piss out of the Nazi salute. Hitler had only just come to power and was seen as a bit of a joke figure. No one knew what would happen six years later as he dragged Europe into war.
It is sensationalist but that is the sun to a tee. There were real news stories happening but they thought that an 80 year old silent family movie that no one knows what was really going on is best they can have on the front page. Newspapers will be a thing of the past within the next 20 years due to nonsense like this. I prefer to look at news online from different sources so I can make up my own mind about what i read

If anyone had leaning towards the nazis it was Edward 8th which, I'm pretty sure, is why they bumped him rather than because of his rather homely wife.

[Geo_1875]

Lots of posters making reference to a possible visit to Germany. I think the history books will tell if such a visit actually happened. Or maybe there is another explanation.

And would a six year old member of the British Royal family be expected to give a salute to a foreign head of state when a simple curtsey would suffice?

[Future17]

In 1933 it was common for people in Britain to take the piss out of the Nazi salute. Hitler had only just come to power and was seen as a bit of a joke figure. No one knew what would happen six years later as he dragged Europe into war.
It is sensationalist but that is the sun to a tee. There were real news stories happening but they thought that an 80 year old silent family movie that no one knows what was really going on is best they can have on the front page. Newspapers will be a thing of the past within the next 20 years due to nonsense like this. I prefer to look at news online from different sources so I can make up my own mind about what i read

Obviously people are entitled to make their own minds up about any subject, but I'm confused by the reaction of people on here which seems to suggest it's fine to assume it's perfectly innocent, but not fine to question whether it is or not. :confused:

[hibbytam]

Just to add a little context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_in_Germany
Notable extracts include:
28 February – The Reichstag Fire Decree is passed in response to the Reichstag fire, nullifying many German civil liberties.
1 March – Hundreds are arrested as the Nazis round up their political opponents.
20 March — Dachau, the first Nazi concentration camp, is completed (it opens 22 March).
1 April – The recently elected Nazis under Julius Streicher organise a one-day boycott of all Jewish-owned businesses in Germany.

7 April – The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service is passed, forcing all "non-Aryans" to retire from the legal profession and civil service.
21 April – Germany outlaws the kosher ritual shechita.
26 April – The Gestapo is established in Germany.
10 May – The Nazis stage massive public book burnings throughout Germany.
26 May — The Nazi Party introduces a law to legalise eugenic sterilisation.
14 July – Forming new political parties is forbidden in Germany. The Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring is implemented. All non-Nazi parties are forbidden in Germany.
16 October – Germany announces its intention to officially leave the League of Nations.

It's always easy to condemn with hindsight, and obviously a 7 year old isn't going to be aware of any of this.
However, the images are an important reminder that many people in British society, going to the very top, supported the Nazis, with the knowledge of much of the above(not to mention the violence, hatred and intimidation that had followed the nazi rise to power) , and Hitlers intentions were very apparent from long before (mein Kampf was published in the mid 20s).

[offshorehibby]

The Queens uncle Edward VIII who abdicated in 1937 openly showed sympathy to the Nazi cause pre WWii.

[--------]

Shock! Horror! The House of Windsor (not so long before Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) playing at being Nazis!

Edward VIII was in full sympathy with the Nazis, and after his abdication he and Wallis spent quite a lot of time in Germany being made much of by Nazi dignitaries like Ribbentrop and Goebbels.

When France surrendered in 1940 there was a strong peace party just hotching to come to terms with Hitler - Edward was being touted as Head of State (King Edward VIII Mark 2, so to speak) and Lloyd George was front-runner for the Prime Minister's position. The Foreign Secretary, Lord Halifax was another who was in favour of asking for terms from Der Fὔhrer. The Windsors (should that be the Simpsons?) were punted out to the Bahamas simply because they couldn't be trusted - there's plenty of evidence that they would have collaborated with the Nazis if they'd been given half a chance.

By then, however, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth would have been well aware that there would have been no good ending for them or their daughters in the event of a Nazi takeover and the re-installation of their slippery in-laws to Buckingham Palace. I seem to recall that Mrs Simpson couldn't have children, so I suppose the princesses might have been kept and brought up as good little Fascists, but their parents would have certainly been disposed of. Ma Simpson wasn't the forgiving type, according to all accounts, and she and the Queen Mother loathed one another. King George and ex-king Edward weren't best buddies either.

The photo looks to me like a nasty bit of mischief on Edward's part rather than anything serious. There were lots of people who were sympathetic to Nazism in 1933 but who changed their attitudes radically in the next 5 or 6 years. However - those who had been fellow-travellers and sympathisers were very keen after 1940 to have their former opinions airbrushed out of the picture - in retrospect everyone was a thoroughly sound patriot and anti-Nazi.

The film's 82 years old, and in many ways no more than a historical curiosity, but surely it would be a fool who failed to understand that the British establishment, centred as it is around the monarchy even now, isn't just as potentially ruthless in what it'll do to hold on to (and even increase) its power and privileges for the future as any Fascist dictatorship.

They've just had more practice.

[Mr White]

Shock! Horror! The House of Windsor (not so long before Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) playing at being Nazis!

Edward VIII was in full sympathy with the Nazis, and after his abdication he and Wallis spent quite a lot of time in Germany being made much of by Nazi dignitaries like Ribbentrop and Goebbels.

When France surrendered in 1940 there was a strong peace party just hotching to come to terms with Hitler - Edward was being touted as Head of State (King Edward VIII Mark 2, so to speak) and Lloyd George was front-runner for the Prime Minister's position. The Foreign Secretary, Lord Halifax was another who was in favour of asking for terms from Der Fὔhrer. The Windsors were punted out to the Bahamas simply because they couldn't be trusted - there's plenty of evidence that they would have collaborated with the Nazis if they'd been given half a chance.

By then, however, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth would have been well aware that there would have been no good ending for them or their daughters in the event of a Nazi takeover and the re-installation of their slippery in-laws to Buckingham Palace. I seem to recall that Mrs Simpson couldn't have children, so I suppose the princesses might have been kept and brought up as good little Fascists, but their parents would have certainly been disposed of. Ma Windsor wasn't the forgiving type, according to all accounts, and she and the Queen Mother loathed one another. King George and ex-king Edward weren't best buddies either.

The photo looks to me like a nasty bit of mischief on Edward's part rather than anything serious. There were lots of people who were sympathetic to Nazism in 1933 but who changed their attitudes radically in the next 5 or 6 years. However - those who had been fellow-travellers and sympathisers were very keen after 1940 to have their former opinions airbrushed out of the picture - in retrospect everyone was a thoroughly sound patriot and anti-Nazi.

The film's 82 years old, and in amny ways no more than a historical curiosity, but surely it would be a fool who failed to understand that the British establishment, centred as it is around the monarchy even now, isn't just as potentially ruthless in what it'll do to hold on to (and even increase) its power and privileges for the future as any Fascist dictatorship.

They've just had more practice.
Doddie I love your cynical history posts. Factual(presumably) and entertaining! :thumbsup:

[Glory Lurker]

I don't have a royalist bone in my body, but I find the Sun's decision to run with this pathetic. I feel sorry for the Queen that this has been dragged up.

[--------]

Doddie I love your cynical history posts. Factual (presumably) and entertaining! :thumbsup:



"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." (George Bernard Shaw) :wink:

I do try to avoid the more outrageous forms of guesswork, actually. :greengrin

The Windsor's fascination with Hitler and Nazism is well-documented, and it's Edward squatting behind Princess Margaret in the film clip. Looks like he's the one orchestrating things.

There were all sorts of rumours about Wallace Simpson - that she had had a string of abortions in her youth that had left her unable to have children, that she was a lesbian, that she was transgender - and these circulated around 'society' and in the European gutter press. (Definitely NOT in the British papers, not even the NOTW.) It's quite possible that it was Edward who couldn't father children - he had numerous mistresses and there's no record of any pregnancies, but then those matters were dealt with very discreetly in those days. But by the time they became an item they were both in their forties, and in those days a woman - a rich woman, I mean - didn't go in for pregnancy or childbirth at that age.

Regarding any projections regarding what might have happened had we come to terms with Hitler in 1940, I think the German record in the countries they did occupy speaks for itself. I understand that there were plans to get the Royal Family and the Churchill government out of the UK to Canada to continue the fight from there, but how realistic these plans were I can't say and I very much doubt they would have come to any sort of fruition. That would have required the Americans to waken up and come down off the fence at least a year earlier than they did. And in they end they entered the war only because they were forced to by the Pearl Harbour attack. If Hitler hadn't been as monumentally stupid as he was in declaring war on the US, we might still be waiting for the Yanks to declare war on Germany.

(Did you know that towards the end of the war a plan was hatched to assassinate Hitler. Churchill was furious and absolutely forbade any action to be taken. Hitler, he said, was doing far too good a job screwing up the German war effort to be killed. If someone else had taken over, the war might have lasted into 1946 or '47.)

I think there's a sort of emotional immaturity that leads some people to a fascination with cults of violence like Nazism. George V wasn't exactly a sensitive and caring father to Kings Edward VIII and George VI. Edward was shielded to an extent because he was the heir, but George (Albert as was) had a horrendous time. One of the causes of his stammer.

Actually, the whole family culture was weird. There was a third brother, John, who was born with learning difficulties. He died in his teens after spending his life hidden away from public view and quite isolated from the rest of the family. Very sad and quite scary, IMO - The Prisoner of Zenda meets Jane Eyre.

Another wee footnote - the original film of The Prisoner of Zenda came out in 1937 - George VI's coronation year and a year after the abdication. If you know the story of the book and the film - princely duty and the obligation for those of royal blood to place their duty to the Crown ahead of their personal needs and desires and happiness (cheesy but quite well-done in the film) - it's almost impossible not to see the film as an anti-abdication propaganda piece. The main characters sacrifice their personal happiness to the greater good, with the support and sympathy of the few faithful servants who in on the secret - exactly the opposite of what Eddie Eight and Wallace did.

Truth is, Phil the Ancient Greek isn't any more eccentric or hide-bound or closet fascist than most of the rest of the family. He just doesn't bother to hide it.

The Windsors make Gomez and Morticia and the rest look totally normal.

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/hitler-royal-wave/

[alnewhaven]

Wasn't there one of Victoria's kids inherited a German title and moved to the Fatherland? Saw a documentary few years ago where he attended s state funeral wearing a German steel helmet

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its interesting to note that Philips uncle Louis Mountbatten engineered his meeting with the then 13 year old Elizabeth Windsor at a naval regatta in the 30s with the deliberate intention of getting her to 'fall for him' ..... It worked a treat and the 17 year old Philip entered into regular correspondence with her not long after that.

If there had been the internet in those days I wonder how that would have been viewed.

Anyway ..... If I had been on the end of Phil's spongers comment I would have replied "we sponge off the taxpayers the same as you do, but we get a lot less"

[The Pointer]

It's sensationalist because of the banner headline and the "story" spread across 7 pages.

It's not a 'gaffe', he's just saying what he thinks and it's usually pretty funny. Wonderful man and he can keep me entertained over a drink any time.