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Big L
02-07-2015, 11:49 PM
A bit concerned about the amount of youngsters who have had the boot in the last year or so, Perntreau I believe has just signed for Crystal Palace, , good enough for an EPL club but not for us. What did they see that we didn't ? Think it would be a big mistake to punt Stanton and maybe Handling and Harris. Thoughts please.

Unseen work
03-07-2015, 12:12 AM
Think it's different scenarios. Kleton is younger and only played a couple of times. Goalies more than any position need confidence and grow leaps and bounds with experience. You see very few goalkeepers under 22 being first choice.

If any to lose he is the one that makes me concerned if we miss out as we dumped him early.

Danny Sam and Alex have all had there chance. Some rate them some don't, some think they could become good, some don't. But at the end of the day they have all played enough games to prove themselves and the fact they haven't nailed down a position says if they were to leave it wouldn't be a major loss.

lucky
03-07-2015, 05:20 AM
If they are good enough Stubbs would play them. Sadly 4 you've mentioned are good enough and the 3 outfield players have had enough chances to prove themselves

Ronniekirk
03-07-2015, 06:22 AM
Time will tell if it was a mistake but out track record on brining through goalkeepers through our system is poor and something that needs addressed .

Think lots of us had high hopes that at least one of Stanton handling or Harris might be capable of breaking through and establishing themselves and stubbs and his team have been chosen by Leeann to bridge that disconnect between youth development and first team .That was one of the key priorities identified when she came in and she quickly decidedButcher wasn't up to that task .

It's still early days for Stubbs as these players were already at the club when he arrived but our need at present is to build a squad to get us promoted as third season in championship isn't palatable for anyone to consider so Danny Sam and Alex are under more pressure to deliver if they get first team oppertunity and Stubbs has to factor that Ito his thinking versus letting them go to bring in another squad player that can do a job right now .

Can any of the regulars that watch the development team like Billy Whizz or O Conners Strip name a young player we have released in last three or four years that has gone on to establish themselves in the first team of another club at a decent level as that is one way of looking at whether we are letting good young talent go to early

Big L
03-07-2015, 06:35 AM
OP. I would have kept Perntreau because keepers get better with age, and anyone Stubbs brings in now will only be a cheap backup to Oxley
As for Stanton I can't get my head round this, everyone who knows anything about football says he is an exceptional talent,. What makes matters worses is Cummings is the only development player who regularly gets a game in the first team, totally disappointed with that stat when you consider the amount of young players who break thru at other clubs!

Scouse Hibee
03-07-2015, 07:08 AM
A bit concerned about the amount of youngsters who have had the boot in the last year or so, Perntreau I believe has just signed for Crystal Palace, , good enough for an EPL club but not for us. What did they see that we didn't ? Think it would be a big mistake to punt Stanton and maybe Handling and Harris. Thoughts please.

Who said he wasn't good enough for us?

Pretty Boy
03-07-2015, 07:29 AM
Tbh I'm utterly stunned Perntreou has ended up at an EPL side. He was always a weak link in the development side imo and had a few poor games that I saw last season. He was a big lad and vocal though so maybe Crystal Palace think there is something they can work with, I'd be very surprised if he makes it at that level even allowing for his age which is young in goalkeeping terms.

There's always a bit mumping and moaning when we release youngsters but I struggle to think of any who have gone on to have successful careers at a comparable or better level than Hibs. In the last 10 years I can't think of one.

TheFamous1875
03-07-2015, 07:32 AM
Tbh I'm utterly stunned Perntreou has ended up at an EPL side. He was always a weak link in the development side imo and had a few poor games that I saw last season. He was a big lad and vocal though so maybe Crystal Palace think there is something they can work with, I'd be very surprised if he makes it at that level even allowing for his age which is young in goalkeeping terms.

There's always a bit mumping and moaning when we release youngsters but I struggle to think of any who have gone on to have successful careers at a comparable or better level than Hibs. In the last 10 years I can't think of one.

Kirk Broadfoot?

Pretty Boy
03-07-2015, 07:36 AM
Kirk Broadfoot?

Over 10 years ago and if memory serves me correctly Broadfoot asked to be released as he wanted to move back west.

Speedy
03-07-2015, 07:49 AM
A bit concerned about the amount of youngsters who have had the boot in the last year or so, Perntreau I believe has just signed for Crystal Palace, , good enough for an EPL club but not for us. What did they see that we didn't ? Think it would be a big mistake to punt Stanton and maybe Handling and Harris. Thoughts please.

I've not seen enough of him to comment on his ability but you have to remember that they have a lot more money to punt on youngsters.

If 1 in 50 makes the first team it's probably a good investment for them. We can't afford to hold on to everyone in hope.

erin go bragh
03-07-2015, 08:16 AM
The boy Scougal ( spelling ) but can't think of any in the last three years .

GGTTH

since90plustwo
03-07-2015, 09:22 AM
Kirk Broadfoot?

Sean Welsh. Captain of a premiership side.

Smartie
03-07-2015, 09:32 AM
If you'd have asked me at some point last season which player of ours would get a move to a Premiership club, Perntreau would have been about the last one I would have guessed.

Good luck to the lad - it's a great move for him.

But let's wait until he's made a few blinding first team performances before we start getting too critical of Hibs over this.

As has been mentioned above, they haven't got too many of these wrong over the years.

calumhibee1
03-07-2015, 09:58 AM
Nothing against the lad but how has he managed that?! Everytime I seen him he has been average at best, usually poor.

ancient hibee
03-07-2015, 10:14 AM
OP. I would have kept Perntreau because keepers get better with age, and anyone Stubbs brings in now will only be a cheap backup to Oxley
As for Stanton I can't get my head round this, everyone who knows anything about football says he is an exceptional talent,. What makes matters worses is Cummings is the only development player who regularly gets a game in the first team, totally disappointed with that stat when you consider the amount of young players who break thru at other clubs!

Your second point shows why the entire youth set up has been revamped.Over the past few years it has often been said that we had a great and successful system for bringing players through despite the complete lack of evidence for this.

lochhibs
03-07-2015, 10:19 AM
He'll be about 4th choice at palace. Same instance with handling,Stanton and Harris,Stubbs is seeing them every day in training. I'd rather Stanton and Harris stayed but if Stubbs doesn't see it in them and wants to move them on that's good enough for me.

TowerHibs
03-07-2015, 10:35 AM
Sean Welsh. Captain of a premiership side.
who plays about 5 games a season. Chocolate balls

johnbc70
03-07-2015, 10:43 AM
Have we ever brought a goalie through from the youth team who went on and established themselves in the first team? Chris Reid does not count as he played 35 games in 10 years.

lord bunberry
03-07-2015, 11:36 AM
He'll be about 4th choice at palace. Same instance with handling,Stanton and Harris,Stubbs is seeing them every day in training. I'd rather Stanton and Harris stayed but if Stubbs doesn't see it in them and wants to move them on that's good enough for me.

He was third choice at a Scottish championship team. Mark Oxley was fourth choice at Hull. I've never seen this guy play, but a team playing at a significantly higher level than us think he's got something about him. As you say Stubbs has decided to let him go so we just have to move on.

ekhibee
03-07-2015, 12:18 PM
I saw him 2 or 3 times, and unlike a few people on here I thought he was alright, a young keeper who would definitely improve. Good luck to him down there anyway.

Sammy7nil
03-07-2015, 12:20 PM
Tbh I'm utterly stunned Perntreou has ended up at an EPL side. He was always a weak link in the development side imo and had a few poor games that I saw last season. He was a big lad and vocal though so maybe Crystal Palace think there is something they can work with, I'd be very surprised if he makes it at that level even allowing for his age which is young in goalkeeping terms.

There's always a bit mumping and moaning when we release youngsters but I struggle to think of any who have gone on to have successful careers at a comparable or better level than Hibs. In the last 10 years I can't think of one.

Wotherspoon ?

Mcpakeisgod
03-07-2015, 01:49 PM
Wotherspoon ?



Different, wasn't released as a youngster, was released as an average regular In the squad

lord bunberry
03-07-2015, 02:26 PM
Different, wasn't released as a youngster, was released as an average regular In the squad

He wasn't released, he turned down a new deal.

Ronniekirk
03-07-2015, 02:33 PM
Over 10 years ago and if memory serves me correctly Broadfoot asked to be released as he wanted to move back west.

Your memory is spot on

Mcpakeisgod
03-07-2015, 02:36 PM
He wasn't released, he turned down a new deal.

Just going by what the news said at the time

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23147403

Smartie
03-07-2015, 02:37 PM
I'd be astonished if somewhere there is a former Hibs manager lying awake at night wondering how they managed to let Kirk Broadfoot slip through the club's fingers.

bigwheel
03-07-2015, 02:39 PM
I'd be astonished if somewhere there is a former Hibs manager lying awake at night wondering how they managed to let Kirk Broadfoot slip through the club's fingers.

hahaha never a truer post ....

Big L
03-07-2015, 03:47 PM
Who said he wasn't good enough for us?
AS freed him, obviously didn't think he was good enough!!

Scouse Hibee
03-07-2015, 03:54 PM
AS freed him, obviously didn't think he was good enough!!

Nope could have freed him for a number of reasons.

KWJ
03-07-2015, 06:19 PM
Newcastle signed Tony Caig. Should we not have let him go because a prem team wanted him?

:greengrin

Big L
03-07-2015, 08:20 PM
Nope could have freed him for a number of reasons.

Name them!

Pretty Boy
03-07-2015, 08:48 PM
Name them!

I think a big part of the reason was alluded to above re finances. If Crystal Palace take a punt on him and in 2 years he's not good enough then so what? He'll be on money that is peanuts to them.

At Hibs we need a keeper who was pushing for the number 1 slot. For some of the criticism Oxley was getting last season not one person was shouting for Kleton to get a start. The one game he did play saw Stubbs set up ridiculously conservatively to protect him, that says a lot. At 20 he would have been taking up an over age slot in the development squad, taking a wage whilst not being in a position to push for a 1st team slot, and believe me he was nowhere near ready, and we don't have the luxury of being able to afford that.

With regards Handling and Stanton both really need to kick on or can have no complaints about being shipped out either. The Hibs 20s/development team played some lovely stuff the last few years and James McDonagh is a great guy but when it came to producing players for the 1st team it was failing badly and that's why wholesale changes were made. Craig Flanagan was pretty savage in his assessment and passed comment that several of the under 13 and 14 players were outperforming 20s players in basic fitness and strength tests. Last year we shipped out a load of players to much angst and few have done much of note. Ryan Baptie was released by ICT, Ross Caldwell was released by St Mirren, Euan Smith was released by Kilmarnock...... If Hibs feel a few of the next batch Aren't up to scratch I'd trust us to get it right as we usually do.

On the bright side there are some cracking prospects in the current development side. Lewis Allan, Ben Stirling, Conor Duthie, Calum Crane and Aaron Dunsmore are ones to keep and eye on and if 1 or 2 of them make the step up we'll have done well imo.

Billy Whizz
03-07-2015, 09:23 PM
I think a big part of the reason was alluded to above re finances. If Crystal Palace take a punt on him and in 2 years he's not good enough then so what? He'll be on money that is peanuts to them.

At Hibs we need a keeper who was pushing for the number 1 slot. For some of the criticism Oxley was getting last season not one person was shouting for Kleton to get a start. The one game he did play saw Stubbs set up ridiculously conservatively to protect him, that says a lot. At 20 he would have been taking up an over age slot in the development squad, taking a wage whilst not being in a position to push for a 1st team slot, and believe me he was nowhere near ready, and we don't have the luxury of being able to afford that.

With regards Handling and Stanton both really need to kick on or can have no complaints about being shipped out either. The Hibs 20s/development team played some lovely stuff the last few years and James McDonagh is a great guy but when it came to producing players for the 1st team it was failing badly and that's why wholesale changes were made. Craig Flanagan was pretty savage in his assessment and passed comment that several of the under 13 and 14 players were outperforming 20s players in basic fitness and strength tests. Last year we shipped out a load of players to much angst and few have done much of note. Ryan Baptie was released by ICT, Ross Caldwell was released by St Mirren, Euan Smith was released by Kilmarnock...... If Hibs feel a few of the next batch Aren't up to scratch I'd trust us to get it right as we usually do.

On the bright side there are some cracking prospects in the current development side. Lewis Allan, Ben Stirling, Conor Duthie, Calum Crane and Aaron Dunsmore are ones to keep and eye on and if 1 or 2 of them make the step up we'll have done well imo.

Some interesting points PB. We've had a lot of good young talent at ER for a few years now, but they don't seem to have made the grade, for whatever reason.
Am I right in thinking, that we haven't produced a young player, who's a 1st team regular since East Mains opened. I'm taking Paul Hanlon out of this, as he was pre East Mains

Speedy
03-07-2015, 09:52 PM
Some interesting points PB. We've had a lot of good young talent at ER for a few years now, but they don't seem to have made the grade, for whatever reason.
Am I right in thinking, that we haven't produced a young player, who's a 1st team regular since East Mains opened. I'm taking Paul Hanlon out of this, as he was pre East Mains

Forster? Suppose he joined quite late.

Scouse Hibee
03-07-2015, 10:07 PM
PB has saved me the trouble.

HTD1875
03-07-2015, 10:13 PM
The other lad released alongside him Neil Martinyuuk has also quickly got another club aswell. He's at St Johnstone.

Big L
04-07-2015, 08:42 AM
Can't be ersed as it's not exactly rocket science to think of them yourself! PB has saved me the trouble of educating you.
My post made it clear that I was concerned about the amount of young players being released or not fulfilling their potential to allow them to break in to the first team squad, and what that tells me is their is a either a problem in the selection of players at an early age or their is a problem in the coaching process. Every club in the land are able to produce their own players which in itself can be very profitable as we've witnessed in years gone bye, Thomson, Brown, Riordan etc. In recent years we have produced very little! That to me is a major concern and just as important is the waste of young talent not to mention the waste of time and expense, this area needs to adressed and quickly! PB your post was informative ! Scouse your comment re my education was definitely not required pal, GGTTH!

liamh2202
04-07-2015, 08:58 AM
My post made it clear that I was concerned about the amount of young players being released or not fulfilling their potential to allow them to break in to the first team squad, and what that tells me is their is a either a problem in the selection of players at an early age or their is a problem in the coaching process. Every club in the land are able to produce their own players which in itself can be very profitable as we've witnessed in years gone bye, Thomson, Brown, Riordan etc. In recent years we have produced very little! That to me is a major concern and just as important is the waste of young talent not to mention the waste of time and expense, this area needs to adressed and quickly! PB your post was informative ! Scouse your comment re my education was definitely not required pal, GGTTH!

Thomson brown and riordon came through at a time where we scouted youngsters from boys clubs. We signed them as full time players. Its not how it works now. I still think we have done well when you look at the players we have brought through from our youth setup. Fletch , Hanlon , Forster , to name a few. Ironically Cummings was brought in like it used to be done , scouted from boys club.

Scouse Hibee
04-07-2015, 09:00 AM
My post made it clear that I was concerned about the amount of young players being released or not fulfilling their potential to allow them to break in to the first team squad, and what that tells me is their is a either a problem in the selection of players at an early age or their is a problem in the coaching process. Every club in the land are able to produce their own players which in itself can be very profitable as we've witnessed in years gone bye, Thomson, Brown, Riordan etc. In recent years we have produced very little! That to me is a major concern and just as important is the waste of young talent not to mention the waste of time and expense, this area needs to adressed and quickly! PB your post was informative ! Scouse your comment re my education was definitely not required pal, GGTTH!

Aye you're right, I retract it.

Big L
04-07-2015, 12:09 PM
Aye you're right, I retract it.

Nae bother scouse!