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Diclonius
17-06-2015, 06:20 PM
Seen a few contrasting views on this cup on the board over the last year - what are your views towards it this season?

Personally, I think we should try and win everything we're in. A cup win is still a cup win.

Sir David Gray
17-06-2015, 06:24 PM
I'm not particularly bothered about it but I want us to win every single match that we play so that would obviously mean that I hope we win the tournament.

Oscar T Grouch
17-06-2015, 06:24 PM
We should try and win every competition we are in. It's that simple.

Billy Whizz
17-06-2015, 06:29 PM
It's our 4th priority, and should be treated with team selection accordingly. Looks like we might have to postpone 2 Saturday fixtures if we were to progress to the final

jacomo
17-06-2015, 06:30 PM
Hard to believe McCoist isn't around to defend the trophy.

How many cups did he win with Rangers and The Rangers in the end?

Pretty Boy
17-06-2015, 06:39 PM
Want us to win it.

iwasthere1972
17-06-2015, 06:46 PM
I think we should challenge to win the cup.

LancashireHibby
17-06-2015, 06:48 PM
Bit of both for me. Use it as an opportunity for players to get match fitness etc before the start of the season, but take it seriously enough that we should fancy our chances of winning it.

emerald green
17-06-2015, 06:53 PM
My attitude is this tournament is not important. I think Hibs have got much more important games to focus on, and players play too many matches already during a season. Just my opinion though.

offshorehibby
17-06-2015, 06:57 PM
Hibs will only get stronger by winning every game possible. By all means play the odd fringe player or blood the odd youngster but i go to every Hibs game expecting us to win it.

jdships
17-06-2015, 07:01 PM
When did this club reach a situation that a " competition" wasn't worth entering/winning ?
We are not exactly in the top 100 of world clubs are we ?
A trophy is a trophy is a trophy and a win is a win is a win :flag::flag::flag:

Coults1875
17-06-2015, 07:07 PM
When did this club reach a situation that a " competition" wasn't worth entering/winning ?
We are not exactly in the top 100 of world clubs are we ?
A trophy is a trophy is a trophy and a win is a win is a win :flag::flag::flag:

Completely agree :top marks

CRAZYHIBBY
17-06-2015, 07:08 PM
I want to win it........its a cup and would be a great day out if we win. This might be our only Chance of silverware this season and to say it doesn't matter and its meaningless is a load of p1sh......i think some people are forgetting that we are not a premiership club.....we are a championship club. This is our level now and ill be gutted if we don't win it

Ozyhibby
17-06-2015, 07:15 PM
Should only be used to give game time to those who need it and the youngsters.
Nothing should distract us from the main goal of winning this league.

NAE NOOKIE
17-06-2015, 07:21 PM
I voted that I don't care about it, but that's not strictly true .... I would like us to win it and I certainly don't want to disrespect any sponsor willing to put money into Scottish football.

But if I'm honest getting promoted simply has to be all we care about next season and if that means not risking injury, suspension or burn out to our top players in any of the cup competitions then so be it. I will of course revise this if we draw the Yams in anything.

Eyrie
17-06-2015, 07:25 PM
I have a mixed view on this, so haven't voted.

The first game is part of our pre-season and is simply a chance to get the players match fit.

The next couple of rounds are an opportunity for fringe players to get some playing time to show if they can step up.

But if we make the semi or the final then I want us to take it seriously and win a trophy.

portyhibernian
17-06-2015, 07:51 PM
Not bothered about it, use first game as a pre season warm up, anything beyond that I'd play fringe players. If we win it then brilliant, if not, meh.

Jonnyboy
17-06-2015, 07:53 PM
When did this club reach a situation that a " competition" wasn't worth entering/winning ?
We are not exactly in the top 100 of world clubs are we ?
A trophy is a trophy is a trophy and a win is a win is a win :flag::flag::flag:

Indeed. Had this 'not worth trying' attitude been around in the 70's we'd have refused to enter the Drybrough Cup!

Boydyhfc
17-06-2015, 08:01 PM
League is obviously our main objective. However, we should still be aiming to win this aswell as the league.

In it to win it. Simples.

Billy Whizz
17-06-2015, 08:04 PM
Indeed. Had this 'not worth trying' attitude been around in the 70's we'd have refused to enter the Drybrough Cup!

Unlike you, I was in short trousers in the early 70's. Was the Drybrough Cup for all league teams? Was this the tournament that had the offside line extended to the 18 yard box?

Jonnyboy
17-06-2015, 08:08 PM
Unlike you, I was in short trousers in the early 70's. Was the Drybrough Cup for all league teams? Was this the tournament that had the offside line extended to the 18 yard box?

Was the top scoring teams from each Division, Billy. We won it twice beating Celtic 5-3 and 1-0 in the finals and yes, that's when they extended the 18 yard line :agree:

Billy Whizz
17-06-2015, 08:11 PM
Was the top scoring teams from each Division, Billy. We won it twice beating Celtic 5-3 and 1-0 in the finals and yes, that's when they extended the 18 yard line :agree:

I know we won it!!!
Couldn't remember who got to enter it though

MyJo
17-06-2015, 08:22 PM
I'll take any opportunity for Hibs to win something thank you very much.

Nando™
17-06-2015, 08:44 PM
I want to win it........its a cup and would be a great day out if we win. This might be our only Chance of silverware this season and to say it doesn't matter and its meaningless is a load of p1sh......i think some people are forgetting that we are not a premiership club.....we are a championship club. This is our level now and ill be gutted if we don't win it

What you're forgetting is that the team we have now is miles better than anything we've had since about 2008.

Onceinawhile
17-06-2015, 08:52 PM
Want us to win it. The only team I'd not be expecting us to beat would be The rangers 2012.

SteveHFC
17-06-2015, 08:55 PM
Want us to win it. Anything else is totally unacceptable.

Andy74
17-06-2015, 09:26 PM
Want us to win it. Anything else is totally unacceptable.

You love this unacceptable word. What are the consequences for the thing happening that you won't accept?

B.H.F.C
17-06-2015, 09:35 PM
Strongest team in the first game. It'll have a competitive edge that friendly won't and can help the players be ready for the first day of the season.

After that, use it to give players needing game time a run out. And try to introduce a few younger players.

Nando™
17-06-2015, 09:36 PM
The fact that we're having to reschedule league matches for this diddy tournament means that I'd rather we put our reserves out for these games.

My_Wife_Camille
17-06-2015, 09:46 PM
Want Hibs to win every game we play whether it's the Champions League or a pre-season friendly. I do however see this diddy tournament as a distraction and taking part is an embarrassment. I hope we win it by playing reserves and youth.

At the same time if we do a Hearts and get pumped out by someone like Livi early doors then I will not give a flying one of we go up.

It's like one of those pish consolation cups you used to get a primary school where all the losers fought it out to be the best loser.

matty_f
17-06-2015, 09:49 PM
I really think we should try and win every game we play. Winning becomes a habit, if we want to start embedding a successful culture at the club then winning games and trophies needs to be an aspiration.

I think it sends the wrong message if we take any competition or match lightly. IMHO if you've got fans paying to see a match then you should treat them with respect and go in committed to winning.

hibbytam
17-06-2015, 09:59 PM
If we don't win it, and get promoted, I won't lose any sleep over it.

similarly if we do win it, and don't go up, it won't be any consolation.


But it would be nice to do a double. or triple. Or quadruple.

bingo70
17-06-2015, 10:05 PM
Great opportunity to introduce youngsters to playing first team football and potentially get them used to playing at Easter road if we can get a couple of home games.

No need to play the first team, would mean more to our youngsters if they could get a decent run, more likely to capture the imagination of the fans if we did that as well.

lord bunberry
17-06-2015, 10:37 PM
It should be treated as an opportunity to play players who aren't playing regularly. It's a long season and this cup is just an unnecessary distraction from what's important.

Bronson
17-06-2015, 10:39 PM
I'd play a weak team, it means nothing to me.

Bill Milne
18-06-2015, 08:10 AM
Hardly a top priority but I don't want to travel to a game where we are not even trying to win.

Benny Brazil
18-06-2015, 08:45 AM
Great opportunity to introduce youngsters to playing first team football and potentially get them used to playing at Easter road if we can get a couple of home games.

No need to play the first team, would mean more to our youngsters if they could get a decent run, more likely to capture the imagination of the fans if we did that as well.

Thats my take on it as well bingo - league is the only priority next season.

J-C
18-06-2015, 08:50 AM
Agree it's 4th priority but we should still take it fairly seriously, a nice blend of experience and youth in these games will do for me, it's all about getting that winning habit going.

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 09:28 AM
The fact that we're having to reschedule league matches for this diddy tournament means that I'd rather we put our reserves out for these games.

To win the Scottish Cup or League Cup you have to rearrange league matches, should we just forget those as well?

jdships
18-06-2015, 09:35 AM
To win the Scottish Cup or League Cup you have to rearrange league matches, should we just forget those as well?

Absolutely!
Hibernian FC are members of the SFA and by virtue of that they work/opertae by the rules
Simple logic which applies at work.play etc !!

Nando™
18-06-2015, 09:59 AM
To win the Scottish Cup or League Cup you have to rearrange league matches, should we just forget those as well?

Those are not diddy cups.

green&left
18-06-2015, 10:08 AM
To win the Scottish Cup or League Cup you have to rearrange league matches, should we just forget those as well?

He did say "diddy cups".


Not arsed in the slightest about it. Play the youngsters.

Bad Martini
18-06-2015, 11:16 AM
If we enter the competition, pay the costs associated with it and ask the PUNTERS to pay for tickets to watch it, there is only one answer to this quesiton. We need to attempt to win everything we can and who the actual **** are we to call anything diddy anyway?

The botom line, if it doesn't matter, if it's not worth the hassle, it's not worth asking people to pay to watch it and therefore dont enter.

Otherwise, do all you can to win it.:agree:

ENDOF?

GreenCastle
18-06-2015, 11:21 AM
Best team to try and win it - a cup is a cup plus can add a feel good factor plus benefits of merchandising / increased ticket sales of people enjoy watching us.

HappyHanlon
18-06-2015, 11:25 AM
Mickey Mouse cup - play the development lads.

Would hate lose a key player to injury playing a full squad in a cup which is meaningless.

Just_Jimmy
18-06-2015, 11:26 AM
It's pointless games we don't need. We need to get out this league this season. Every extra game is a chance of an injury or suspension. Play the kids.

Bad Martini
18-06-2015, 11:28 AM
Mickey Mouse cup - play the development lads.

Would hate lose a key player to injury playing a full squad in a cup which is meaningless.

That approach can be taken....if we do that, it should be bucket donations to get in and we call it quits? :aok:

Otherwise, treat the cup like any other organised competition and attempt to win it.

Can see no point in entering if it's just to make up numbers surely?

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 11:31 AM
Those are not diddy cups.

Are we so great these days we can refer to competitions as diddy cups?

I think not.

By definition we are in it because we are not a top flight club.

Waxy
18-06-2015, 11:37 AM
Every round we get through is more cash for the club so for that reason we should try and win it.
Though i wouldnt want the open top bus if we do.

My_Wife_Camille
18-06-2015, 11:37 AM
That approach can be taken....if we do that, it should be bucket donations to get in and we call it quits? :aok:

Otherwise, treat the cup like any other organised competition and attempt to win it.

Can see no point in entering if it's just to make up numbers surely?agreed, the club could make a real statement of intent by withdrawing from this distraction completely. It's a diddy cup for diddy teams and just being associated with it is embarrassing and only goes to show how far we have fallen.

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 11:39 AM
agreed, the club could make a real statement of intent by withdrawing from this distraction completely. It's a diddy cup for diddy teams and just being associated with it is embarrassing and only goes to show how far we have fallen.

We are in it because we got relegated, which makes us a diddy club in your books.

My_Wife_Camille
18-06-2015, 11:48 AM
We are in it because we got relegated, which makes us a diddy club in your books.
I never said only diddy clubs entered it so you can ram that. I Said it's a competition for diddy Clubs. It exists simply so that these diddy clubs can have a chance of winning something. It's not something that a club of Hibernians size should be involved in.

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 11:51 AM
I never said only diddy clubs entered it so you can ram that. I Said it's a competition for diddy Clubs. It exists simply so that these diddy clubs can have a chance of winning something. It's not something that a club of Hibernians size should be involved in.

Feeling outsmarted eh that you have resorted to saying I should ram it.

It's a competition for diddy clubs (according to you) that we are in therefore we must then be a diddy club.

What is so difficult for you to grasp?

allezsauzee
18-06-2015, 11:53 AM
I think we should try to win it but with the under 20s squad. it would be good experience for the young lads trying to win something against more experienced professionals.

Thecat23
18-06-2015, 12:01 PM
I want to win it........its a cup and would be a great day out if we win. This might be our only Chance of silverware this season and to say it doesn't matter and its meaningless is a load of p1sh......i think some people are forgetting that we are not a premiership club.....we are a championship club. This is our level now and ill be gutted if we don't win it

You would honestly be gutted if we didn't win it?? Jeezo this cup IS utter dross! Yes we are a championship club but I want back to the prem asap. If Scott Allan broke his leg in one of these pointless games and it ruined our promotion chances how would you feel?

The League cup and Scottish are better cups but again couldn't care less if we win them because one season down is manageable but 2 or god forbid three or four would ruin us. Play the under 14's for all I care I want out this ****ty league first and foremost so save the best players for that!!!

Thecat23
18-06-2015, 12:04 PM
I think we should try to win it but with the under 20s squad. it would be good experience for the young lads trying to win something against more experienced professionals.

I agree :agree:

With no reserve league we should use this to give the young lads competitive competition. They will be playing against bigger lads who want to win and that will gain them vital experience for down the line.

Nando™
18-06-2015, 12:08 PM
Are we so great these days we can refer to competitions as diddy cups?

I think not.

By definition we are in it because we are not a top flight club.

Yes, absolutely. Hibs winning this diddy cup will not be considered a great achievement by anyone. Similarly, if we win the league then no one will be shouting from the rooftops about it, because Hibs are far too big to consider a pitiful league and cup as good enough for a club this size.

I know fine well why we are in it.

For what it's worth, I'd like our reserves and youth lads to win it, and I'll probably go to the home games and the final.

My_Wife_Camille
18-06-2015, 12:10 PM
Feeling outsmarted eh that you have resorted to saying I should ram it.

It's a competition for diddy clubs (according to you) that we are in therefore we must then be a diddy club.

What is so difficult for you to grasp?
Right, look at it this way.

Little Marcos soft play is for children. If a grown man lowered himself and entered the soft play area, that would not therefore make him a child. It would however be hugely embarrassing for the man and a little inappropriate.

Likewise, the challenge cup is for diddy teams. Just because hibs have lowered themselves and entered the challenge cup, it does not make us a diddy club but it is also pretty embarrassing.

Simple:greengrin

The_Horde
18-06-2015, 12:25 PM
Right, look at it this way.

Little Marcos soft play is for children. If a grown man lowered himself and entered the soft play area, that would not therefore make him a child. It would however be hugely embarrassing for the man and a little inappropriate.

Likewise, the challenge cup is for diddy teams. Just because hibs have lowered themselves and entered the challenge cup, it does not make us a diddy club but it is also pretty embarrassing.

Simple:greengrin

Deary me, can't disagree more. There would still be pretty decent celebrations if we won this cup.

Especially if we beat the huns in the final.

I am not embarrassed by my club. We played poorly and got.relegated. It's not embarrassing, it's what we deserved and we deserve to be in this cup.

iwasthere1972
18-06-2015, 12:26 PM
I agree :agree:

With no reserve league we should use this to give the young lads competitive competition. They will be playing against bigger lads who want to win and that will gain them vital experience for down the line.

Until we reach the final. We say thanks and then field our first team.

Andy74
18-06-2015, 12:29 PM
Come on now, I still recall the glorious day we won the Tennents Sixes!

Surely we haven't grown so bored of winning trophies that we would pass one up?

My_Wife_Camille
18-06-2015, 12:31 PM
Deary me, can't disagree more. There would still be pretty decent celebrations if we won this cup.

Especially if we beat the huns in the final.

I am not embarrassed by my club. We played poorly and got.relegated. It's not embarrassing, it's what we deserved and we deserve to be in this cup.

Deary me. The PC brigade out in force. Lunatic by name, Lunatic by nature. What part are you finding so hard to grasp?

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 12:32 PM
Right, look at it this way.

Little Marcos soft play is for children. If a grown man lowered himself and entered the soft play area, that would not therefore make him a child. It would however be hugely embarrassing for the man and a little inappropriate.

Likewise, the challenge cup is for diddy teams. Just because hibs have lowered themselves and entered the challenge cup, it does not make us a diddy club but it is also pretty embarrassing.

Simple:greengrin

We aren't going to agree on this (which is fair enough) so this will be my last post on the matter.

I understand that you find it embarrassing that we are in the Challenge Cup.

I understand we are in the Challenge Cup because we aren't in the top flight of Scottish Football. I don't like it but nevertheless we are in it. I think we are a bigger club than Ross County, Partick Thistle, Hamilton, etc but right now they aren't in it and we are so we just have to get on with it.

I will leave it up to Alan Stubbs to decide whether we take it serious or not, if he puts out a strong team then that implies to me he wants to win it, if he puts out a weak team it implies to me he doesn't care.

If we were to play Rangers in the final then between us we could fill Hampden and that would be a decent pay day for the club and would enable us to maybe strengthen the squad, but I guess that is a different argument for another day.

scoopyboy
18-06-2015, 12:34 PM
Come on now, I still recall the glorious day we won the Tennents Sixes!

Surely we haven't grown so bored of winning trophies that we would pass one up?

I think I still have this on a VHS video tape!!!!!!

Thecat23
18-06-2015, 12:36 PM
Come on now, I still recall the glorious day we won the Tennents Sixes!

Surely we haven't grown so bored of winning trophies that we would pass one up?

Loved the Tennents Sixes. I was only about 12 to be fair but still watched every one.

truehibernian
18-06-2015, 12:40 PM
It's a professional sport and as such we should treat each and every game in every tournament professionally - we are in it, so let's try and win it.

This tournament is one where if the draw is 'kind' then if you have a good lead in games, you can introduce youth players who are on the cusp of getting into the first team for a decent amount of game time to get that cup/match experience (Duthie, Lewis Allan, Scott Martin, Callum Crane, Aaron Dunsmore).

Mind I come from an era where 'shooty in', 'bangers, 'kerbie' and 'british bulldog' was taken deadly serious :greengrin

1875godsgift
18-06-2015, 01:02 PM
Right, look at it this way.

Little Marcos soft play is for children. If a grown man lowered himself and entered the soft play area, that would not therefore make him a child. It would however be hugely embarrassing for the man and a little inappropriate.

Likewise, the challenge cup is for diddy teams. Just because hibs have lowered themselves and entered the challenge cup, it does not make us a diddy club but it is also pretty embarrassing.

Simple:greengrin

Nice analogy!
But surely there would be a sign up saying
" Under 12's only "?
So the grown-up would be chucked out for breaking the rules 🚷

emerald green
18-06-2015, 06:13 PM
I want to win it........its a cup and would be a great day out if we win. This might be our only Chance of silverware this season and to say it doesn't matter and its meaningless is a load of p1sh......i think some people are forgetting that we are not a premiership club.....we are a championship club. This is our level now and ill be gutted if we don't win it

Who are these people that are forgetting that Hibs are not a premiership club? Not me. Hibs supporters are reminded about this fact on a daily basis by our friends in maroon every day.

It's the fact that Hibs are not a Premier league club at the moment which should mean all the clubs' efforts are concentrated in getting out of the Championship at the end of this season. That means not getting involved in p!sh tournaments like this any longer than necessary, risking players getting injured, and which frankly most Hibs supporters I believe would not give a toss about if we were still in the Premier league.

Hibs should follow the example of HMFC last season (there, I've gone and said it) and concentrate on one thing this coming season, and one thing only. That means getting promotion. Forget about the diddie cups like this. I think the Yams purposely played a weakened team in this tournament early doors last season and were beaten 4-1 by Livingston. They weren't in the least bit bothered about that, having achieved their far more important objective at the end of the season.

If this is our level now, I'll be gutted if it continues much longer.

Nutmegged
18-06-2015, 08:03 PM
You look at how Hearts basically patched it last year and it worked out for them, they got lucky and unlucky in equal measures in the other Cups by drawing Celtic, it became easy for them to concede both Cups at the first hurdle because "they wanted to focus on the League" but if they drew anyone else bar Celtic with the run they'd be on they'd have fancied themselves to win those ties and then they're looking at the competitions conpletely differently.

I wouldn't say or schedule is too hectic, we've got what potentially 3 Challene Cup 3 League Cup and One Scottish Cup game before Christmas, a couple of those are before the League Season starts, I think we should be trying to win every Cup

Pedantic_Hibee
18-06-2015, 08:21 PM
The only thing that's more embarrassing than Hibs winning the Challenge Cup is Hibs NOT winning the Challenge Cup.

Scouse Hibee
18-06-2015, 08:49 PM
Some folk on here allow themselves to be embarrassed by a football team! Oh dear that in itself is embarrassing.

Andy74
18-06-2015, 10:07 PM
Some folk on here allow themselves to be embarrassed by a football team! Oh dear that in itself is embarrassing.

Agree.

monktonharp
18-06-2015, 10:39 PM
You look at how Hearts basically patched it last year and it worked out for them, they got lucky and unlucky in equal measures in the other Cups by drawing Celtic, it became easy for them to concede both Cups at the first hurdle because "they wanted to focus on the League" but if they drew anyone else bar Celtic with the run they'd be on they'd have fancied themselves to win those ties and then they're looking at the competitions conpletely differently.

I wouldn't say or schedule is too hectic, we've got what potentially 3 Challene Cup 3 League Cup and One Scottish Cup game before Christmas, a couple of those are before the League Season starts, I think we should be trying to win every Cupfirstly, I could not give a flying fiddler's about the gorgie mob. I always consider them to be the luckiest club on earth, and stand by that as they should be playing in the East of Scotland cup this season. however, I do agree that Hibernian, a long established football club, despite being in a lower division and having one of Scotland's most up to date stadiums
should invariably be competing in every match they play in, with a view to winning.

Diclonius
18-06-2015, 10:44 PM
I take it there won't be a clamour for tickets if we reach the final. That's fine then, all the more chance I'll get one. :aok:

My_Wife_Camille
18-06-2015, 10:48 PM
I take it there won't be a clamour for tickets if we reach the final. That's fine then, all the more chance I'll get one. :aok:
:agree: I certainly won't be anywhere near it so you'll be welcome to mine.

Bad Martini
19-06-2015, 11:47 AM
As I said a few posts ago before it went radge talking about play centres :confused::greengrin and other aspects of mentalness, it's quite simple...

If we enter it and charge the punters proper prices, afford us the decency of a proper team, commnesurate with our payment for said ticket.
If we dont do that, its a sham no. And on THAT basis, we either enter it properly, or we dont?

Simple enough. :confused:

As for the final if we go there, the team that should play in that should be the team that got us there no?

Back in the real world, that's likely to be a mix of youth and experience. And why not? Most of us remember two wins in what could loosely be described our "recent" past. Someone really thinks we're better than any cup? Other teams will be in it no? Possibly teams that have put us out other cups in the not (so) distant past? So, who are we to say we're better than that?

And who doesn't like winning a cup? :gwa:

I also come from that school of thought where you want to win everything, as if yer life depended on it...from kerby to ****ing tiddlywinks, it makes no odds. Losers whine about their best, winners go home and **** the prom queen, as a wee milkman who probably and should've supported Hibs, (if he didny) being of the Cowgate, once famously said :greengrin

:aok:

Baldy Foghorn
19-06-2015, 01:22 PM
Some folk on here allow themselves to be embarrassed by a football team! Oh dear that in itself is embarrassing.

Never ever been embarrassed by the mighty Hibernian F.C.

Upset/raging yes:cb

Baldy Foghorn
19-06-2015, 01:24 PM
As I said a few posts ago before it went radge talking about play centres :confused::greengrin and other aspects of mentalness, it's quite simple...

If we enter it and charge the punters proper prices, afford us the decency of a proper team, commnesurate with our payment for said ticket.
If we dont do that, its a sham no. And on THAT basis, we either enter it properly, or we dont?

Simple enough. :confused:

As for the final if we go there, the team that should play in that should be the team that got us there no?

Back in the real world, that's likely to be a mix of youth and experience. And why not? Most of us remember two wins in what could loosely be described our "recent" past. Someone really thinks we're better than any cup? Other teams will be in it no? Possibly teams that have put us out other cups in the not (so) distant past? So, who are we to say we're better than that?

And who doesn't like winning a cup? :gwa:

I also come from that school of thought where you want to win everything, as if yer life depended on it...from kerby to ****ing tiddlywinks, it makes no odds. Losers whine about their best, winners go home and **** the prom queen, as a wee milkman who probably and should've supported Hibs, (if he didny) being of the Cowgate, once famously said :greengrin

:aok:


:top marks:top marks:top marks

ENDOF