Ruthless with youngsters

[madhatter]

I'm glad to see we are becoming more ruthless with youngsters. I think Harris and Stanton might be gone. Some part of me would be happy if they stayed but I honestly don't think they've improved much since they broke through. Handling is in similar boat tbh. We've had a history of clinging on to youngsters hoping that one day they'll come good.

Obviously they might but by now I would have expected Harris to be tearing most defences a new one due to his pace and acceleration. I would've expected Stanton to be fitter and more physical. They both should be regulars by now.

[Andy74]

I'm glad to see we are becoming more ruthless with youngsters. I think Harris and Stanton might be gone. Some part of me would be happy if they stayed but I honestly don't think they've improved much since they broke through. Handling is in similar boat tbh. We've had a history of clinging on to youngsters hoping that one day they'll come good.

Obviously they might but by now I would have expected Harris to be tearing most defences a new one due to his pace and acceleration. I would've expected Stanton to be fitter and more physical. They both should be regulars by now.

Yep, they all suffer similar issues well, good players technically but not strong enough and don't seem to have the mentality to play at a club of the size of Hibs. We can't keep players on the basis they might have a good game every month or so.

Hopefully this is being addressed through the academy. When you look at Hearts, no one really raves about the players in their youth teams yet they all go straight in to the first team and perform pretty well.

[Mikey09]

I'm glad to see we are becoming more ruthless with youngsters. I think Harris and Stanton might be gone. Some part of me would be happy if they stayed but I honestly don't think they've improved much since they broke through. Handling is in similar boat tbh. We've had a history of clinging on to youngsters hoping that one day they'll come good.

Obviously they might but by now I would have expected Harris to be tearing most defences a new one due to his pace and acceleration. I would've expected Stanton to be fitter and more physical. They both should be regulars by now.


A wee bit harsh on Sam Stanton to be honest. Sam has generally done well when used his problem this season has been Allan, Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig. All very good players. Handling is different. I think someone must bite the bullet and play him in a specific position as I honestly don't think we know what his best position is! Play him somewhere and stick to it. I've also said before Harris will come back and play a bigger part this season. I have faith in the boy. :thumbsup:

[Ozyhibby]

A wee bit harsh on Sam Stanton to be honest. Sam has generally done well when used his problem this season has been Allan, Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig. All very good players. Handling is different. I think someone must bite the bullet and play him in a specific position as I honestly don't think we know what his best position is! Play him somewhere and stick to it. I've also said before Harris will come back and play a bigger part this season. I have faith in the boy. :thumbsup:

We've just let Liam Craig go and he was keeping Stanton out the team. Fact is, he has not taken his chance.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It has to be said that Stanton, Harris and Handling have been around the first team for a while now without looking like becoming regulars. But all three of them have talent, so its a tough one for Hibs. I would love to see Stanton go out on loan, for me he is the one with the most potential.

Perhaps its because someone mentioned players needing to bulk up, but all of a sudden Graham Payne who played for Dundee Utd came to mind ... all the bulk of a pipe cleaner and impossible to knock off the ball, what a great wee player he was.

[J-C]

It has been mentioned on a good few threads that our main problem was the youth players were not nearly ready enough to be introduced to 1st team football, this was the main reason Bill Hendry and James Mcdonaugh were released from their contracts ( I think James was offered a lesser coaching role but turned it down ). The football our youth were playing was always nice pretty attacking football but strength and conditioning and mental strength was neglected, meaning they turned up at 1st team level still looking like wee laddies and then they struggled to cope with the more physical side of the game.
This was 2 years ago now, we have specialist strength and conditioning coaches, so I'd expect to see these 3 lads pushing for regular 1st team spots but they still seem to be behind where they should be. Sam is now 21, as to is Danny with Harris now 20 years old. They are now of an age where they should be 1st picks on the team sheet but they aint, aslo we still don't know where Sammy and Danny are best played, midfield, attacking mid, out wide we still don't know.

[Unseen work]

It has been mentioned on a good few threads that our main problem was the youth players were not nearly ready enough to be introduced to 1st team football, this was the main reason Bill Hendry and James Mcdonaugh were released from their contracts ( I think James was offered a lesser coaching role but turned it down ). The football our youth were playing was always nice pretty attacking football but strength and conditioning and mental strength was neglected, meaning they turned up at 1st team level still looking like wee laddies and then they struggled to cope with the more physical side of the game.
This was 2 years ago now, we have specialist strength and conditioning coaches, so I'd expect to see these 3 lads pushing for regular 1st team spots but they still seem to be behind where they should be. Sam is now 21, as to is Danny with Harris now 20 years old. They are now of an age where they should be 1st picks on the team sheet but they aint, aslo we still don't know where Sammy and Danny are best played, midfield, attacking mid, out wide we still don't know.

I know the coaches have a responsibility for there physical development.

But IMO at the end of the day it's the players that need to realise this is holding them back massively, when I was 16 I realised I had to join a gym to play better in football, I bulked up and my all round game improved as a result. Now I never played at a very high level or anything, so for a youngster at an spl team to neglect this side to me is staggering.

[Mikey09]

We've just let Liam Craig go and he was keeping Stanton out the team. Fact is, he has not taken his chance.


So maybe Stubbs thinks Sam will be given this season to push into Craig's role? This is a huge season for Sam and I for one have great faith in him to be a big player for us... :thumbsup:

[MB62]

I know the coaches have a responsibility for there physical development.

But IMO at the end of the day it's the players that need to realise this is holding them back massively, when I was 16 I realised I had to join a gym to play better in football, I bulked up and my all round game improved as a result. Now I never played at a very high level or anything, so for a youngster at an spl team to neglect this side to me is staggering.

I don't think it is just our young team that suffers from this, I have been saying our whole squad has been lightweight for years. When Celtc gubbed us in the final a few years ago, it was men against boys in the physical aspect of things, we were getting bullied off the ball in every challenge.
There is absolutely no excuse for this to be happening, given the facilities we have at East Mains. Players not bulking out is down to either poor coaching or laziness on the players part, or both.
I do believe this improved last season but there is still room for more work to be done there.

[jacomo]

Ryan Gauld and our very own Riordan are not big lads but broke through anyhow - although I agree, players can disregard their physical development as well.

I hope all three prove themselves worthy of a 1st team place this season, it is time to step up.

[brog]

It has been mentioned on a good few threads that our main problem was the youth players were not nearly ready enough to be introduced to 1st team football, this was the main reason Bill Hendry and James Mcdonaugh were released from their contracts ( I think James was offered a lesser coaching role but turned it down ). The football our youth were playing was always nice pretty attacking football but strength and conditioning and mental strength was neglected, meaning they turned up at 1st team level still looking like wee laddies and then they struggled to cope with the more physical side of the game.
This was 2 years ago now, we have specialist strength and conditioning coaches, so I'd expect to see these 3 lads pushing for regular 1st team spots but they still seem to be behind where they should be. Sam is now 21, as to is Danny with Harris now 20 years old. They are now of an age where they should be 1st picks on the team sheet but they aint, aslo we still don't know where Sammy and Danny are best played, midfield, attacking mid, out wide we still don't know.

I agree with much of what you say JC but it's actually less than a year since our youth set up was reformed. The problem with all 3 players, Sam, Danny & Alex is that they're far too good for development football but have struggled to make an impact at senior level. Alex is the biggest disappointment for me, I saw Celtc-Dundee at the end of last season & he was like a lost wee laddie playing with the big boys. I think Sam has a real opportunity this season with LC gone. He's now the only natural left sided midfielder & I think he could flourish getting the opportunity to play beside the likes of Fyvie &, fingers crossed, Scott Allan. I don't want to start another Danny Handling debate but I think he could do a real job for a team such as Falkirk or Dunfermline & hopefully work his way back up again. The one thing all 3 need is games, they can't improve on the bench.

[Unseen work]

I don't think it is just our young team that suffers from this, I have been saying our whole squad has been lightweight for years. When Celtc gubbed us in the final a few years ago, it was men against boys in the physical aspect of things, we were getting bullied off the ball in every challenge.
There is absolutely no excuse for this to be happening, given the facilities we have at East Mains. Players not bulking out is down to either poor coaching or laziness on the players part, or both.
I do believe this improved last season but there is still room for more work to be done there.

That's true, this season u can see a massive difference in the shape of the players we have
Gray, forster, Fontaine, Stevenson, fyvie, Allan are all stocky muscular guys, u can also see Cummings is starting to add quite a bit of muscle

[J-C]

That's true, this season u can see a massive difference in the shape of the players we have
Gray, forster, Fontaine, Stevenson, fyvie, Allan are all stocky muscular guys, u can also see Cummings is starting to add quite a bit of muscle


Strength doesn't come from pure muscle bulk alone, you can be strong without being huge. If you've ever met Fontaine you'd see this, he's a fairly tall lad and on the pitch looks a decent size, stand next to him and there's nothing of him, no huge muscles just strong sinewy ones, very similar Farid and Malonga.

[Unseen work]

Strength doesn't come from pure muscle bulk alone, you can be strong without being huge. If you've ever met Fontaine you'd see this, he's a fairly tall lad and on the pitch looks a decent size, stand next to him and there's nothing of him, no huge muscles just strong sinewy ones, very similar Farid and Malonga.

I realise this. Disagree with Fontaine however, he's a big guy IMO and a lot bulkier than faird and malonga who are more ripped

[Unseen work]

http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.3712734.1425827569!/image/3676155752.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/3676155752.jpg

This photo looks like Stanton is his son haha

[J-C]

I realise this. Disagree with Fontaine however, he's a big guy IMO and a lot bulkier than faird and malonga who are more ripped


I can tell you he's not, I met him a few times and although big, he's not huge with bulked up muscles, strong and sinewy like Farid etc.

[Unseen work]

I can tell you he's not, I met him a few times and although big, he's not huge with bulked up muscles, strong and sinewy like Farid etc.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this, although his arms aren't massive, they are quite big and IMO his back and shoulders give him a bulkier look than malonga and farid.

[green.and.white]

The wonderful thing about Football is that you don't need to be a certain height like in Basketball, or a certain build like in the NFL, this is a sport open to everyone of any shape or size. Doesn't matter if you're built like Xavi or Cristiano Ronaldo or Peter Crouch, you can make it if you're good enough.

I am currently not convinced by Handling, he should really have stood out in this league but failed to, comparing him with Cummings who has stepped forward and finished as the leagues top scorer. I like Stanton, there is definitely a player in there but next season is make or brake for him :flag:

[The Leith Dutch]

We've just let Liam Craig go and he was keeping Stanton out the team. Fact is, he has not taken his chance.

Much as I like Stanton I have to agree.
If you look at the midfield that kept him out only Allan would be close to untouchable performance wise.
Any of Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig could have been dislodged with the right performance (which is no slight on those players as McGeough had a pretty good season).

He managed 857 minutes over 22 appearances in the league which suggests that he had chances but didn't push on.
Somewhat harsh I know but I think more ruthlessness and less consoling arm round the shoulder / misty eyed perception of youth is probably a significant part of our long term malaise......

[Unseen work]

Much as I like Stanton I have to agree.
If you look at the midfield that kept him out only Allan would be close to untouchable performance wise.
Any of Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig could have been dislodged with the right performance (which is no slight on those players as McGeough had a pretty good season).

He managed 857 minutes over 22 appearances in the league which suggests that he had chances but didn't push on.
Somewhat harsh I know but I think more ruthlessness and less consoling arm round the shoulder / misty eyed perception of youth is probably a significant part of our long term malaise......

I know u say only Allan couldn't be displace but fyvie mcgeoch and robbo all had really go seasons individually, and even more so as a unit working together imo

[brog]

Much as I like Stanton I have to agree.
If you look at the midfield that kept him out only Allan would be close to untouchable performance wise.
Any of Fyvie, Robbo, McGeouch and Craig could have been dislodged with the right performance (which is no slight on those players as McGeough had a pretty good season).

He managed 857 minutes over 22 appearances in the league which suggests that he had chances but didn't push on.
Somewhat harsh I know but I think more ruthlessness and less consoling arm round the shoulder / misty eyed perception of youth is probably a significant part of our long term malaise......

I think that's very harsh on Sam. He only started 8 league games & 9 in total all season, ie 20% of our games. It's hard to influence games getting only 20 mins or so at a time, there were a number of games when Scott A & others in our midfield were very quiet in the first 20 but came on to a great game.

[The Leith Dutch]

I know u say only Allan couldn't be displace but fyvie mcgeoch and robbo all had really go seasons individually, and even more so as a unit working together imo

Sorry - didn't put that particularly well.

Those three all had good seasons and did work well together.....was more that I could have seen Stanton dislodging one of them with a series of excellent performances. Wasn't a criticism of any of those three and the only reason Allan was excepted was (for me at least) he regularly performed at a level above anything I've seen so far from Stanton.

[The Leith Dutch]

I think that's very harsh on Sam. He only started 8 league games & 9 in total all season, ie 20% of our games. It's hard to influence games getting only 20 mins or so at a time, there were a number of games when Scott A & others in our midfield were very quiet in the first 20 but came on to a great game.

It's certainly harsh :)
But I suppose that's the point of the thread - should we be harsher on and expect more of our young players?

On the minutes front and looking only at the league:
8 starts + 14 sub performances at around 20 minutes each.
This against generally weak opposition.

I'd argue that if, as the thread is suggesting, we're being more ruthless then that's a more than decent chance to stake a claim and that a player who genuinely has "it" would have stuck his hand up.

Not ruling out the fact that sticking by players and gradually coaxing the best out of them is a decent option but I think it's worth debating whether the risk of throwing away a good one merits sticking by a lot who don't make it.

I guess it comes down to what you think will get the best out of a young player:
Ruthless to force them to perform or nurturing so that they're not too scared.

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm glad to see we are becoming more ruthless with youngsters. I think Harris and Stanton might be gone. Some part of me would be happy if they stayed but I honestly don't think they've improved much since they broke through. Handling is in similar boat tbh. We've had a history of clinging on to youngsters hoping that one day they'll come good.

Obviously they might but by now I would have expected Harris to be tearing most defences a new one due to his pace and acceleration. I would've expected Stanton to be fitter and more physical. They both should be regulars by now.

Agreed. We are playing in the second tier of Scottish football.

[Unseen work]

Sorry - didn't put that particularly well.

Those three all had good seasons and did work well together.....was more that I could have seen Stanton dislodging one of them with a series of excellent performances. Wasn't a criticism of any of those three and the only reason Allan was excepted was (for me at least) he regularly performed at a level above anything I've seen so far from Stanton.

Sorry get what you mean now!
Deffinetly think Stanton has the ability and would of provided a good balance to the midfield, very creative as well and can score goals. Hope he pushes on this season

[anon1875]

I honestly don't think coming on here though and making threads about them not being good enough helps the situation. These young boys probably come on here and read things, can't imagine it does wonders for their confidence. Who remembers all the David Wotherspoon threads from a few years back? Now he's in the SPFL/Europe and we're stuck down here so that shows you how much half the people starting those threads really knew about judging a player. It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do in football.

[J-C]

I honestly don't think coming on here though and making threads about them not being good enough helps the situation. These young boys probably come on here and read things, can't imagine it does wonders for their confidence. Who remembers all the David Wotherspoon threads from a few years back? Now he's in the SPFL/Europe and we're stuck down here so that shows you how much half the people starting those threads really knew about judging a player. It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do in football.


And tell me, how many years massaging their egos do we have to do to wait for them to start stepping up, they are not young boys any more, in fact only a year or two less than Allan and Fyvie, they should be forcing Craig and Robertson out the team and they didn't.

[ancient hibee]

I think that's very harsh on Sam. He only started 8 league games & 9 in total all season, ie 20% of our games. It's hard to influence games getting only 20 mins or so at a time, there were a number of games when Scott A & others in our midfield were very quiet in the first 20 but came on to a great game.

Don't think it's really harsh.If Stanton only started 8 league games it's because the coaches didn't think he was ready to start more and that really is what this thread is about.

[brog]

Don't think it's really harsh.If Stanton only started 8 league games it's because the coaches didn't think he was ready to start more and that really is what this thread is about.


Or maybe because we had our best midfield since the days of Boozy, Scotty etc. At the start of last season no one would have believed we would have Allan, Fyvie & McGeouch in our team. If Stanton wasn't getting a game ahead of the likes of Taiwo or Tudor-Jones I would agree.

[StevieT]

In my opinion, the worst thing that could happen to youth development was the disbanding of the reserve league. There is a huge gulf between the youngsters and the first team. The reserve league allowed good youngsters to pit their talents against seasoned pro's in a safe environment. Now it's Under 20 or first team with nothing in between. Whilst this may suit teams like the OF etc who can go out and buy ready made first team players, clubs like us who need to nurture youth now don't have the environment to do so.

[brog]

In my opinion, the worst thing that could happen to youth development was the disbanding of the reserve league. There is a huge gulf between the youngsters and the first team. The reserve league allowed good youngsters to pit their talents against seasoned pro's in a safe environment. Now it's Under 20 or first team with nothing in between. Whilst this may suit teams like the OF etc who can go out and buy ready made first team players, clubs like us who need to nurture youth now don't have the environment to do so.

Couldn't agree more. I said in an earlier post that IMO Stanton, Harris & Handling are far too good for development football but struggle to hold down a first team place. It's the same across the city with Holt being the prime example but King & even Nicholson not always being first choices.

[StevieT]

Couldn't agree more. I said in an earlier post that IMO Stanton, Harris & Handling are far too good for development football but struggle to hold down a first team place. It's the same across the city with Holt being the prime example but King & even Nicholson not always being first choices.

Exactly Brog. If you are too good for development but not good enough for the first team you either get splinters in your backside or loaned out. It will be interesting to see which of our loaned out players actually make it in our first team and which end up plying their trade in the lower leagues.

[Thecat23]

Holt, King and Nicholson are far better IMO than Stanton, Harris and Handling.

It wouldn't bother me if all three were let go to free wages or even loaned out! Said it for a long time and was shot down that these lads needed to step up when given the chance. Stanton is the best of the three for what I've seen and if you can't dominate in this league then I'm sorry there's something not right!

I'm not having a go at these players by the way, good pros but for me not good enough for were we as a club want to be or want to go.

[StevieT]

Holt, King and Nicholson are far better IMO than Stanton, Harris and Handling.

It wouldn't bother me if all three were let go to free wages or even loaned out! Said it for a long time and was shot down that these lads needed to step up when given the chance. Stanton is the best of the three for what I've seen and if you can't dominate in this league then I'm sorry there's something not right!

I'm not having a go at these players by the way, good pros but for me not good enough for were we as a club want to be or want to go.

Agreed. There is no room for sentiment. If they aren't seen to be good enough then let them find their own level elsewhere. However, I think something needs to be done to close the gap between development and first team football.

If enough teams were interested, why not organise a friendly with the team we are about to play in a reverse fixture. Non playing first team players, players returning from injury and development players could play against each other in an unofficial reserve type league but played as friendlies.

[Thecat23]

Agreed. There is no room for sentiment. If they aren't seen to be good enough then let them find their own level elsewhere. However, I think something needs to be done to close the gap between development and first team football.

If enough teams were interested, why not organise a friendly with the team we are about to play in a reverse fixture. Non playing first team players, players returning from injury and development players could play against each other in an unofficial reserve type league but played as friendlies.

That's a very good idea as I fully agree there is a gap between our first team and the u20's. The reserve league matured these guys and toughened them up. Need something put in place and friendly games isn't a bad shout!

[Ozyhibby]

I honestly don't think coming on here though and making threads about them not being good enough helps the situation. These young boys probably come on here and read things, can't imagine it does wonders for their confidence. Who remembers all the David Wotherspoon threads from a few years back? Now he's in the SPFL/Europe and we're stuck down here so that shows you how much half the people starting those threads really knew about judging a player. It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do in football.

Witherspoon played as many games for Hibs as these three put together.
He took his chance.

[TowerHibs]

I mind a thread on here last season going mental at the 3 or 4 players we were releasing who were deemed future stars. A left back i seem to recall......not even sure where he is.

These guys have to be taking their chance. I dont care who is in the team, they have to keep developing and keep improving. Look at the guys at Hamilton. I think the "conveyor belt" has ruined a lot of players attitudes. The notion of that all you need to do is break into the team and you will move on is no longer true.

It response to the OP. I agree, they have had their chance. The 3 of them will be 21 next years and no longer youngsters. if they are not better than we have, im sure the next batch of 18 year olds will take the place of the next prospect. Its ruthless but the harsh realilty

[SquashedFrogg]

Interesting thread. It's really tough one as we all want to see a young player coming through the ranks and 'making it'.

In an ideal world they'd get all the time in the world to do so.

The fear for me is always "Have we let them go too soon?" or "Would one more year have made the difference?".

If I had to pick one out of the three to keep and give more opportunity to it would be Stanton.

Our recruitment and overall re-structuring of our club however, gives me confidence that if we do let these guys go, we will have a new breed of 'younger players' coming through...

Good discussion though :agree:

[SquashedFrogg]

I mind a thread on here last season going mental at the 3 or 4 players we were releasing who were deemed future stars. A left back i seem to recall......not even sure where he is.

These guys have to be taking their chance. I dont care who is in the team, they have to keep developing and keep improving. Look at the guys at Hamilton. I think the "conveyor belt" has ruined a lot of players attitudes. The notion of that all you need to do is break into the team and you will move on is no longer true.

It response to the OP. I agree, they have had their chance. The 3 of them will be 21 next years and no longer youngsters. if they are not better than we have, im sure the next batch of 18 year olds will take the place of the next prospect. Its ruthless but the harsh realilty

Fair comments.

[Unseen work]

The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

[SquashedFrogg]

The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

Agree. Perhaps circumstances don't help and unfortunately we are in a position where we need to gt promoted so no 'comfort zone' to give younger boys a good run at it.

Defo 3 players with talent but maybe right place but just wrong time? (Which happens at lots of clubs I guess)

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I'd be very disappointed if Stanton was to leave. There absolutely is a player in there. Disappointed he didn't make more of an impact last season but I still believe in him. Make or break this season coming though

[anon1875]

And tell me, how many years massaging their egos do we have to do to wait for them to start stepping up, they are not young boys any more, in fact only a year or two less than Allan and Fyvie, they should be forcing Craig and Robertson out the team and they didn't.
That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

[SquashedFrogg]

That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

I see what your you're saying my friend and get the sentiments but at the moment we can't really afford to carry squad players. Regardless of what they earn. Maybe in a year or two we can but not now. We need a trim, lean talented squad right now. Until we re-establish ourselves in the top flight we simply can't do that.

[tamig]

I know the coaches have a responsibility for there physical development.

But IMO at the end of the day it's the players that need to realise this is holding them back massively, when I was 16 I realised I had to join a gym to play better in football, I bulked up and my all round game improved as a result. Now I never played at a very high level or anything, so for a youngster at an spl team to neglect this side to me is staggering.

I've said this on several threads last season that these guys should be working with the fitness gurus to put on a few pounds of muscle. Stanton is a lovely player to watch but he blows over like a feather in a breeze when an opponent comes within 5 yards of him.

[B.H.F.C]

That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

But if you can get rid of two or three players not making an impact and bring in one that does then it wouldn't be silly. We need players who, if they get a chance, can take it.

It's perfectly fair to compare them to the players that you mention as that is who they are competing with. Whether they are young, experienced or whatever is irrelevant. If they aren't contributing enough, we need to bring in someone to replace them.

[Eyrie]

My view this time last year was that a season in the second tier was make-or-break for the three being discussed, together with Forster.

I'm not concerned about Forster who has played well when fit, but the other three haven't done enough. I might keep them for one last year as depth since they won't be on big wages, but on the available evidence I'd be surprised if any of the three do enough to become a regular starter.

[Andy74]

That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

Fyvie himself had played for Aberdeen nearly 60 times before he was 20. He is now only 22. These guys have to be good enough to match this and they aren't currently.

[mca]

Maybe they way we have played and been coached under a few ex-managers kinda knocked their Confidence to Bits.. before they even reached the First Team ??

:wink:

[SquashedFrogg]

Maybe they way we have played and been coached under a few ex-managers kinda knocked their Confidence to Bits.. before they even reached the First Team ??

:wink:

But talent rises to the top and they haven't?

Many of the young players who have succeeded in our recent past played or trained under Williamson. That didn't stunt or harm their talent.

Doesn't wash for me I'm afraid.

[J-C]

That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

I'm saying at their age, Allan and Fyvie were regulars in their respective teams and got moves south, do you think anyone from down south will be coming in for them anytime soon. These guys, in particular Handling and Stanton have have a decent go in the 1st team, in fact Handling had a good run out when McGeouch was injured but they've never managed to grab the opportunity and become regulars, this is the Championship we're talking about, these guys if they were on loan would've been at teams in this division.

[The Leith Dutch]

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok


Bloody good point this. I'm still not sure exactly what their best position is supposed to be. Would be interesting to know how this plays out behind the scenes and whether they are certain themselves.

Also agree with the other posters that Stanton and Handling need a bit more physicality. On top of everything else it will help their confidence - when you see Handling getting bumped around by some low rent thug it's not likely to make his next touch or pass better :(

If I was to pick one of our youngsters that I think is most likely to make the cut it would be Forster.
He has the weaknesses I'd expect of a youngster - a wee bit inexperienced in positioning and decision making.
You'd hope that a good manager (particularly an ex-central defender) can help him with this.

Why I think he's more likely to make it is he has the physical presence that if he gets his decision making right he's going to execute.
If Stanton or Handling do everything else right - control and decision - there's still a chance it won't come off because they can be shoved around.

The other bit I like about Forster is the bit you can't teach which is his attitude - it's pretty clear he thinks he belongs in the first team and that shows in how he carries himself when playing.

By no means saying he's guaranteed to make it but for me he's at a very good level for his age.

[eastcoasthibby]

Interesting thread this and loads of salient points for and against our young boys and if /when/can they make it !! I personally think the signs are there for a couple of them 1) Foerster has made the break through and when fit is,a first team regular , but needs to work hard and develop himself and get his head into living the right lifestyle as a pro footballer no more nonsense like the George Street gang stuff.
I think Danny Handling has reached his peak of ability , personally I think his real lack of any pace is a problem and not got the physical attributes to play a more restrictive central midfield role, definitely a decent brain and can finish, think championship in another team is it !! Stanton has bags of ability he needs to find consistency and a bit of physicality in his game, protecting the ball or winning his share of tackles , he is a talent in dribbling, getting into good positions, creatively, scores goals, he can go in but needs much more match time. Alex Harris since his injury has lacked real confidence, perhaps even before that expectations hit him hard as he hadn't really done much other than a few games where his potential showed, the flair and use of his pace were unseen. Has his move to Dundee helped from what I have seen in TV and heard from a few of their fans , he didn't give them much. He needs to get his head in the right place and give what we saw before and physiologically get himself sorted to play with his attributes, cos flitting in and out of games, shark by any kind of tackle or challenge is no good nowadays..... I have my doubts if he has it in him but hope to be proven wrong.
So Stanton and Forster have it and need to force themselves forward, Harris and Handling have a bit of work to do get up into the next stage ....all just my humble view.

[maturehibby]

Before that Motherwell animal Hutchinson took Harris out with one of the worst tackles I have ever seen - he was a Class act with a good/great career ahead of him but the injury damaged him physically and mentally and the player has not regained his confidence and ability YET but it perhaps needs the coaching to bring him back to the player he is capable of being and the belief of his Manager and coaches

[PeterboroHibee]

The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

Spot on. Theres a few examples where guys have been let go at a very young age, but that happens at almost every club. I cant think of any Hibs players who made it to the first team level, didnt quite make and were released, then went on to be a huge success elsewhere?