Managers win % since Alex Miller

[CallumLaidlaw]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%

[Elephant Stone]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%

He also inherited a far, far shanner team than the managers round about him.

[GreenArmyyy!]

Pat did ok, not a great job but not a terrible one either. He did his best and I will always be grateful for that. We all know how they ended but at the end of the day he did ok in the league and got us to two cup finals in a row.

[Unseen work]

Let's not forget pat had Leigh griffiths! Without him we would of really struggled. I get he was the one that signed him etc etc

[KeithTheHibby]

And some say that JC was a crap manager for us...

Anyway I'm prepared to excuse Sauzee's record as he was untried and moved from the team to the dugout however as for Butcher...the worst manager I've ever witnessed in charge of my team.

[KeithTheHibby]

Bobby Williamson also had a decent record despite having to get rid of the majority of our best players and basically took over a relegation threatened team.

[hfc rd]

Let's not forget pat had Leigh griffiths! Without him we would of really struggled. I get he was the one that signed him etc etc


It was Calderclown that signed him.

[skipster7]

So Tony Mowbray has the best stats as his were all in the top division. What a good team we had then.:not worth

[Michael]

How is Mixu so low? We were always top 6 under him I think.

[Stevie Reid]

How is Mixu so low? We were always top 6 under him I think.

Lots of draws and barely won a top 6 game under him IIRC.

[J-C]

It also shows that last 2 times we've been relegated the percentage around 20 mark, Duffy and Butcher, how the hell can any manager only get 20% win ratio :confused:

[franck sauzee]

It also shows that last 2 times we've been relegated the percentage around 20 mark, Duffy and Butcher, how the hell can any manager only get 20% win ratio :confused:

By winning only 1 in 5 games :P

[allezsauzee]

I didn't think I'd ever dislike a manager as much as Jim Duffy...Butcher proved me wrong though

[Smartie]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%

That's an interesting list.

I think it would only be fair to take Franck out - he had too few games in charge, so the effects of a "small sample size" will be amplified and his results will seem worse than they actually were.

The thing that is strange about it is that results really don't lie - it is probably the exact order I would rate our managers in during my time watching the club. Not much between the bottom three but I must admit I really didn't like Calderwood so he'd probably be bottom.

[MWHIBBIES]

Let's not forget pat had Leigh griffiths! Without him we would of really struggled. I get he was the one that signed him etc etcMcLeish has Sauzee and Latapy, Mowbray had Riordan and O'Connor, Yogi had Stokes and Riordan, Mixu had Fletcher and Riordan.

Without managers having good players they struggle. Yogi and Mixu kinda did regardless.

[Leithenhibby]

And some say that JC was a crap manager for us...

Anyway I'm prepared to excuse Sauzee's record as he was untried and moved from the team to the dugout however as for Butcher...the worst manager I've ever witnessed in charge of my team.

:agree:

69 Days is not a fair kick o'the baw in my book :rolleyes:

[Leith_Hibee]

McLeish also has a season in the Championship.

[Keith_M]

The thing that is strange about it is that results really don't lie - it is probably the exact order I would rate our managers in during my time watching the club. ...


Surely Stubbs' win ratio is out of context, as every match has been in the second tier.

[Smartie]

Surely Stubbs' win ratio is out of context, as every match has been in the second tier.

Placed in the context of the absolute abomination he inherited I think it's fair enough (but I accept that on the face of it being in the second tier for his entire reign so far flatters things). I don't think there are many managers on that list that could have turned things round the way he did, I suppose McLeish did something similar.

Time will tell, obviously, but so far I really like him. He totally changed our style of play, he attracted good players for the level we're at, unfortunately he just had too much too improve in his first year so we fell a bit short.

I have confidence that if he stays long enough then he'll earn his place at the top of that list.

[Pretty Boy]

I'd be interested to see that stats for both JCs and Yogis first 30 games in charge and their last 20 odd. My guess is the difference would be very clear.

[lyonhibs]

That's an interesting list.

I think it would only be fair to take Franck out - he had too few games in charge, so the effects of a "small sample size" will be amplified and his results will seem worse than they actually were.

The thing that is strange about it is that results really don't lie - it is probably the exact order I would rate our managers in during my time watching the club. Not much between the bottom three but I must admit I really didn't like Calderwood so he'd probably be bottom.

Agree in principle but I'd be surprised to see many say they enjoyed the Blobby reign more that Yogi, if we can conveniently omit the last few months with his "fitba folk ken what's gaun oan " straw clutching.

Different times I accept. Miller, Stokes and Riordan. On the rare occasions they were all up for it and in form, that was a very decent team.

[Onion]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%

Sauzee is a Hibee footballing god and can do no wrong, so above any criticism. End of.
TB being below the worst manager we'd ever seen at ER (Duff Jimmy), says everything that needs saying about Butcher and his dream team - utterly horrendous.
Duff Jimmy was semi interesting to listen to, Calderdud was a useless, boring and gormless.
If you remove PF's cup wins, would show a very different picture.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Fenlon did okay in the grand scheme of things IMHO. Two cup finals in a row can't be sniffed at, but it was the 1-5 and 0-7 that killed him, and by the end he knew he could go no further.


P.S. Butcher you ****

[Smartie]

Agree in principle but I'd be surprised to see many say they enjoyed the Blobby reign more that Yogi, if we can conveniently omit the last few months with his "fitba folk ken what's gaun oan " straw clutching.

Different times I accept. Miller, Stokes and Riordan. On the rare occasions they were all up for it and in form, that was a very decent team.

Yogi's team was a joy to watch at times, especially the first few months. I really thought we were onto something there but then it all went a bit belly up, although how much of that was due to Yogi and how much was due to the "conduit" is up for discussion. Yogi did well with Mixu's players and adding a sprinkling of his own early on. He did have a couple of appalling transfer windows though, how much of that was down to him buying the wrong players and how much it was down to him missing out on his main targets and being effectively undermined, then blamed when it didn't work out……

As regards Blobby, none of us will really look back on that time with a great deal of fondness but I actually think that with hindsight Blobby did a very decent job and deserves our respect. He had to dismantle a highly-paid (and hopelessly underachieving) team and throw in the youngsters, and whilst it wasn't exactly inspiring at least we were never really threatened by relegation. I know that is faint praise given the size and ambitions of our club but you only need to see our current predicament (and that of The Rangers and Hearts) to see that this needn't necessarily be taken for granted. And there was probably a fair bit of "financial doping" going on elsewhere at that time so he was working with one arm tied behind his back.

[Eyrie]

McLeish also has a season in the Championship.

Taking those league games out (28 wins in 36 games) then GJP still gets a reasonable 38.28%.

[james62]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%

I think these 2 should be taken out. As has previously been said on this thread Sauzee wasn't given nearly enough time and Stubbsy (as much as I think is the man to take us forward) has only managed in the 2nd tier. Outwith those 2 I would say the list isn't really surprising.

[Purple & Green]

If you only include wins then you won't see a true picture, the draw and loss percentages are equally revealing.

Re Fenlon, he made some dreadful mistakes with Hibs friendly media and I think his biggest failing was a lack of confidence in his own ability - I think he knew how bad our problems were and I think he could have fixed them. I suppose that's why he's back in Ireland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hfc rd]

Was having a wee looks at this earlier and was surprised where some of the managers placed in win %
For example, how high PF was considering the stick he got, and that Calderwood was higher than Jim Duffy. Feel bad that Franck is bottom, but taking him out, those next 3 are horrible horrible football managers :bitchy::bitchy:


Alan Stubbs 56.76%
Tony Mowbray 48.15%
Alex Mcleish 46.95%
John Collins 42.59%
Bobby Williamson 36.56%
Pat Fenlon 35.63%
John Hughes 35.19%
Alex Miller 34.88%
Mixu Paatelainen 30.65%
Colin Calderwood 24.49%
Jim Duffy 20.83%
Terry Butcher 20.69%
Franck Sauzee 6.67%


Kinda surprised how Blobby is 5th.

[Peevemor]

And some say that JC was a crap manager for us...

There was a huge difference in results between the team he inherited and the one he put together.

[Clarence]

Mowbray wasn't perfect but all things being equal, he is rightly top of that list. Mcleish had a better team but we paid for it and they petered out in 2001.

[MWHIBBIES]

And some say that JC was a crap manager for us...

Anyway I'm prepared to excuse Sauzee's record as he was untried and moved from the team to the dugout however as for Butcher...the worst manager I've ever witnessed in charge of my team.Don't think many people say that, most of them say he couldn't sign a player to save himself which is completely true. We had some amazing performances under him, 6-1 away at Motherwell probably the best I've ever seen Hibs play but he didn't half sign some dreadful players.

[allezsauzee]

Yogi's team was a joy to watch at times, especially the first few months. I really thought we were onto something there but then it all went a bit belly up, although how much of that was due to Yogi and how much was due to the "conduit" is up for discussion. Yogi did well with Mixu's players and adding a sprinkling of his own early on. He did have a couple of appalling transfer windows though, how much of that was down to him buying the wrong players and how much it was down to him missing out on his main targets and being effectively undermined, then blamed when it didn't work out……

As regards Blobby, none of us will really look back on that time with a great deal of fondness but I actually think that with hindsight Blobby did a very decent job and deserves our respect. He had to dismantle a highly-paid (and hopelessly underachieving) team and throw in the youngsters, and whilst it wasn't exactly inspiring at least we were never really threatened by relegation. I know that is faint praise given the size and ambitions of our club but you only need to see our current predicament (and that of The Rangers and Hearts) to see that this needn't necessarily be taken for granted. And there was probably a fair bit of "financial doping" going on elsewhere at that time so he was working with one arm tied behind his back.

Williamson inherited a bloated overpaid squad that had turned into a shambles and handed over a promising young team to Mowbray. Not suggesting he deserves all the credit for developing Broonie, Deeks, etc but he managed that transition very well.

[jacomo]

It was Calderclown that signed him.

Aye but Pat made him. LG seems happy to credit Pat with getting him focused on the right priorities.

[overdrive]

Aye but Pat made him. LG seems happy to credit Pat with getting him focused on the right priorities.

Caldwerood tended to play him on the wing rather than up front as well.

[MWHIBBIES]

Caldwerood tended to play him on the wing rather than up front as well.Tactical genius Colin Calderwood.

[KeithTheHibby]

Don't think many people say that, most of them say he couldn't sign a player to save himself which is completely true. We had some amazing performances under him, 6-1 away at Motherwell probably the best I've ever seen Hibs play but he didn't half sign some dreadful players.

His team were practically sold underneath him and he was given pennies to replace them. I do think we can afford to cut him some slack there.

[KeithTheHibby]

Yogi's team was a joy to watch at times, especially the first few months. I really thought we were onto something there but then it all went a bit belly up, although how much of that was due to Yogi and how much was due to the "conduit" is up for discussion. Yogi did well with Mixu's players and adding a sprinkling of his own early on. He did have a couple of appalling transfer windows though, how much of that was down to him buying the wrong players and how much it was down to him missing out on his main targets and being effectively undermined, then blamed when it didn't work out……

As regards Blobby, none of us will really look back on that time with a great deal of fondness but I actually think that with hindsight Blobby did a very decent job and deserves our respect. He had to dismantle a highly-paid (and hopelessly underachieving) team and throw in the youngsters, and whilst it wasn't exactly inspiring at least we were never really threatened by relegation. I know that is faint praise given the size and ambitions of our club but you only need to see our current predicament (and that of The Rangers and Hearts) to see that this needn't necessarily be taken for granted. And there was probably a fair bit of "financial doping" going on elsewhere at that time so he was working with one arm tied behind his back.



In one sentence you say Williamson deserves some respect and in another you call him Blobby?

[Peevemor]

His team were practically sold underneath him and he was given pennies to replace them. I do think we can afford to cut him some slack there.


He was given a healthy budget to replace them but blew it on total crap.

[DavieRoy]

I am thinking back to a Ebbe Skovdahl quote now about statistics being like mini-skirts...

Mowbray was great and as much as Williamson blooded the youngsters, he never had them playing like Mowbray and it could have been worse, Williamson might have got us Bobby Mann in a swap deal for Riordan and Whittaker.

The pathetic choice of managers between Hughes and Stubbs summed up the malaise at the club and the lack of proper head hunting.

Calderwood was a disaster, Fenlon too, mainly due to three results but the football was awful. Butcher says it all. Fenlon was the only one to last two years since Mowbray. Inability to get rid, showed too much faith and gave him money.

Glad Yogi has gone on to show what he can do and is now a winner, something nobody can take away from him.

McLeish, Mowbray, Collins and Hughes were my favourites but given what we had to endure under Calderwood and Fenlon, I realise how the likes of Mixu was actually holding back the tide, despite his ratio.

The worst thing about the Calderwood and Fenlon eras was the way people tried to spin positives when there were none and the fact people tried, showed how far we had fallen.

Positives were Mowbray and Collins etc. great days between 2004 and 2007 but all in all up to 2010.

[Pretty Boy]

There was a huge difference in results between the team he inherited and the one he put together.

Yep hence my post about being interested in the different stats for his first 30 games and his final 24.

The.difference would be huge. I remember Mixu was appointed just before a SC game.v ICT and most on here said we had no chance because of the mess he'd inherited from Collins. Think we won 3-0 and Paul Hanlon made his debut

[Kato]

His team were practically sold underneath him and he was given pennies to replace them. I do think we can afford to cut him some slack there.

One thing that shocked me about Collins was his lack of contacts in the game willing to come and play for him. Given his career I thought there may be a couple of old pro's willing to come and play for him. I wouldn't give a young, untried manager a huge budget but Collins was given quite a decent amount to rebuild the squad. His signings were rubbish.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Yep hence my post about being interested in the different stats for his first 30 games and his final 24.

The.difference would be huge. I remember Mixu was appointed just before a SC game.v ICT and most on here said we had no chance because of the mess he'd inherited from Collins. Think we won 3-0 and Paul Hanlon made his debut


Was it not Callum Booth that made his debut? I remember sitting with my dad saying, isnt it refreshing having a manager that plays a LB at LB! :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

Was it not Callum Booth that made his debut? I remember sitting with my dad saying, isnt it refreshing having a manager that plays a LB at LB! :greengrin

Definitely Hanlon.

Booth also made his debut in the SC. 1-0 loss to Ayr.

[truehibernian]

Definitely Hanlon.

Booth also made his debut in the SC. 1-0 loss to Ayr.

Definitely Paul - Dean Shiels hattrick too IIRC :aok:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Definitely Hanlon.

Booth also made his debut in the SC. 1-0 loss to Ayr.

:aok: Must just be getting them confused then. Its the ICT game I'm thinking of, but the wrong player :greengrin

[KeithTheHibby]

He was given a healthy budget to replace them but blew it on total crap.

How do you define a healthy budget? I think it was anything but considering the players sold from under him.

Scott Brown 4.5m
David Murphy 2m
Steven Whittaker 2m
Kevin Thomson 2m
Ivan Sproule 0.5m


11m worth of talent. How much of that was re-invested? Very little...

[Fergus52]

How do you define a healthy budget? I think it was anything but considering the players sold from under him.

Scott Brown 4.5m
David Murphy 2m
Steven Whittaker 2m
Kevin Thomson 2m
Ivan Sproule 0.5m


11m worth of talent. How much of that was re-invested? Very little...

We had a training groud and stand to build.

In the last ten years or so he's the only manager that had proper money to spend of transfer fees and he blew 200k on o'brien, 100k on makalamby and 100k on john rankin.

[Pretty Boy]

We had a training groud and stand to build.

In the last ten years or so he's the only manager that had proper money to spend of transfer fees and he blew 200k on o'brien, 100k on makalamby and 100k on john rankin.

Mixu signed Rankin.

Made his debut as a sub at Tynecastle.

[Fergus52]

Mixu signed Rankin.

Made his debut as a sub at Tynecastle.

My bad, still he spent 300k plus high wages on dross

[KeithTheHibby]

We had a training groud and stand to build.

In the last ten years or so he's the only manager that had proper money to spend of transfer fees and he blew 200k on o'brien, 100k on makalamby and 100k on john rankin.

The training ground was already built, JC opened it then quit the next day so that is not a valid point.
The stand did not have to be built, that was down to choice.

As for your figures I have never seen anywhere evidence that we paid for those players. Infact I think John Rankin was a Mixu signing.

[Fergus52]

The training ground was already built, JC opened it then quit the next day so that is not a valid point.
The stand did not have to be built, that was down to choice.

As for your figures I have never seen anywhere evidence that we paid for those players. Infact I think John Rankin was a Mixu signing.

Built but not completely paid for.

Scroll down on the link below to the transfers section and you'll see the fees we paid as well as the poor players he brought in on a free.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Hibernian_F.C._season

Rankin was mixu's signing, my mistake.

[KeithTheHibby]

Built but not completely paid for.

Scroll down on the link below to the transfers section and you'll see the fees we paid as well as the poor players he brought in on a free.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Hibernian_F.C._season

Rankin was mixu's signing, my mistake.


Wiki is hardly the most reliable place for stats about transfers. As far as I am concerned we never paid a transfer fee for these guys. We may however paid them quite well. Either way Maka and AOB were utter crap, granted, however on paper they should have returned a lot more than they did.
They were probably signed on the basis they would be sold for a much higher fee.

[Woodrow]

I didn't think I'd ever dislike a manager as much as Jim Duffy...Butcher proved me wrong though

Bear in mind at 20.83% - Duff Jimmy only lost 1 of his first 8 league games - I think we might even have been top in mid October?? :confused:

Then he had us 3-0 up against the Hunz at home and managed to lose 3-4 (Gascoigne and Mark O'Negri ran amuck) .... after that it was free-fall until he got launched ...

[CallumLaidlaw]

Wiki is hardly the most reliable place for stats about transfers. As far as I am concerned we never paid a transfer fee for these guys. We may however paid them quite well. Either way Maka and AOB were utter crap, granted, however on paper they should have returned a lot more than they did.
They were probably signed on the basis they would be sold for a much higher fee.

We definitely paid money for O'Brien if stories at the time were to be believed. And I bet most of Collins signings were on more money than the players that went the other way.

I always thought that Collins was a good coach & tactician but would really have benefitted with someoene helping with player identification. Kerr, Gathuessi, Nouboussie, Joneleit, Makalambay, O'Brien, Morais :confused::confused:

[liamh2202]

Kinda surprised how Blobby is 5th.

Don't forget he also brought through a lot of lads other managers profited from