Irvine Welsh's take on it

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2015/may/07/labour-risks-failing-the-english-just-like-it-did-the-scottish?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[Hibbyradge]

"Labour had already made the massive tactical error of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives in Better Together, during the seismic referendum campaign. This greatly hastened a secular decline, giving generations of Scottish leftists the excuse to jump ship.

For many Scots, publicly supporting the SNP even last year would have felt like taking your secret lover to your long-term partner’s funeral. Once it was confirmed that this partner had been screwing around with your much hated, corpulent boss for years, that outing turned from one of shame into a joyous party".

As accurate an analogy as I've ever seen. It describes me perfectly.

[ronaldo7]

14824

[lyonhibs]

"Labour had already made the massive tactical error of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives in Better Together, during the seismic referendum campaign. This greatly hastened a secular decline, giving generations of Scottish leftists the excuse to jump ship.

For many Scots, publicly supporting the SNP even last year would have felt like taking your secret lover to your long-term partner’s funeral. Once it was confirmed that this partner had been screwing around with your much hated, corpulent boss for years, that outing turned from one of shame into a joyous party".

As accurate an analogy as I've ever seen. It describes me perfectly.

:agree::agree:

Told my Mum I was voting SNP this morning, which went down like a stinky fart in a convent. About 30 seconds of debate later she admitted she was "holding her nose and voting for Labour" as seemingly a vote for the SNP is a vote for David Cameron.

If and when Labour, and Scottish Labour in particular, start acting like Labour again, I'll happily go back to what is and has been my family's natural party for eons. Until then, they can ram it.

[snooky]

:agree::agree:

Told my Mum I was voting SNP this morning, which went down like a stinky fart in a convent. About 30 seconds of debate later she admitted she was "holding her nose and voting for Labour" as seemingly a vote for the SNP is a vote for David Cameron.

If and when Labour, and Scottish Labour in particular, start acting like Labour again, I'll happily go back to what is and has been my family's natural party for eons. Until then, they can ram it.

I think that's how many folk feel (although not necessarily myself).
The SNP haven't so much as won their new votes, more like Labour have lost them.
Alas, this is just the next stage of Labour's demise from a self-inflicted wound.

At the last election disgruntles went from Lab to Lib, and see how that turned out. :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

"Labour had already made the massive tactical error of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives in Better Together, during the seismic referendum campaign. This greatly hastened a secular decline, giving generations of Scottish leftists the excuse to jump ship.

For many Scots, publicly supporting the SNP even last year would have felt like taking your secret lover to your long-term partner’s funeral. Once it was confirmed that this partner had been screwing around with your much hated, corpulent boss for years, that outing turned from one of shame into a joyous party".

As accurate an analogy as I've ever seen. It describes me perfectly.

Is your boss that fat? :greengrin

Seriously, had Labour stuck to their ideological reasons for opposing independence (the "socialism has no borders" argument), and not resorted to the "independence is bad" argument that BT used, they might have come out of that debate with a lot more respect than they did. They may have won that particular battle, in that many of their supporters still voted No, but so many of those supporters are now exercising their right to say "you betrayed us".

How are Labour going to react? I hope they get their act together soon, although I have my doubts whether they can do it soon enough for 2016. To have good Government, we need good opposition; Labour's record in opposition in Scotland has been appalling recently. Unless most of the MP's who lose their jobs today, many of whom are more able than their Holyrood counterparts, stand next year, I fear that may continue.

[Keith_M]

I'm personally p1ssed off with the manner in which parties vote against proposals purely because a party they didn't like were the one's that made it.

The minority SNP Administration at Holyrood put forward a number of proposals that were actually favoured by Labour elsewhere, e.g. Minimum Alcohol Pricing, but Labour voted against it purely because they didn't want the SNP to be a success. That played a large part in many people switching their vote in the following Election and giving the SNP a majority (myself included)

I now see something similar happening again, where Labour are against the SNP as a point of principal and won't even consider working with them, even on matters in which they agree.

That's not serving the people, it's self interest.

[Hibbyradge]

Is your boss that fat? :greengrin

Seriously, had Labour stuck to their ideological reasons for opposing independence (the "socialism has no borders" argument), and not resorted to the "independence is bad" argument that BT used, they might have come out of that debate with a lot more respect than they did. They may have won that particular battle, in that many of their supporters still voted No, but so many of those supporters are now exercising their right to say "you betrayed us".

How are Labour going to react? I hope they get their act together soon, although I have my doubts whether they can do it soon enough for 2016. To have good Government, we need good opposition; Labour's record in opposition in Scotland has been appalling recently. Unless most of the MP's who lose their jobs today, many of whom are more able than their Holyrood counterparts, stand next year, I fear that may continue.

Unfortunately, he is.

I'm self employed! :greengrin




Seriously, had Labour stuck to their ideological reasons for opposing independence (the "socialism has no borders" argument), and not resorted to the "independence is bad" argument that BT used, they might have come out of that debate with a lot more respect than they did. They may have won that particular battle, in that many of their supporters still voted No, but so many of those supporters are now exercising their right to say "you betrayed us".

How are Labour going to react? I hope they get their act together soon, although I have my doubts whether they can do it soon enough for 2016. To have good Government, we need good opposition; Labour's record in opposition in Scotland has been appalling recently. Unless most of the MP's who lose their jobs today, many of whom are more able than their Holyrood counterparts, stand next year, I fear that may continue.

:agree:

[Bristolhibby]

A very good article.

The Union is dead, we are just at the end of the beginning.

I hope the Left down here can get its act together.

J

[Geo_1875]

Is your boss that fat? :greengrin

Seriously, had Labour stuck to their ideological reasons for opposing independence (the "socialism has no borders" argument), and not resorted to the "independence is bad" argument that BT used, they might have come out of that debate with a lot more respect than they did. They may have won that particular battle, in that many of their supporters still voted No, but so many of those supporters are now exercising their right to say "you betrayed us".

How are Labour going to react? I hope they get their act together soon, although I have my doubts whether they can do it soon enough for 2016. To have good Government, we need good opposition; Labour's record in opposition in Scotland has been appalling recently. Unless most of the MP's who lose their jobs today, many of whom are more able than their Holyrood counterparts, stand next year, I fear that may continue.

I would disagree with that in many cases, and in all parties. The first bunch of MSPs were mostly starting from scratch and have developed well. The reporting of Holyrood tends to highlight the trivial and ignores a lot of the good work that they are doing. Many of the Westminster rejects will bring too much baggage with them. Others will see it as a step down and can make more money elsewhere (it's what many of them are most interested in after all). Some should just see it as the end of their political career and go back where they came from.

[Smartie]

I would disagree with that in many cases, and in all parties. The first bunch of MSPs were mostly starting from scratch and have developed well. The reporting of Holyrood tends to highlight the trivial and ignores a lot of the good work that they are doing. Many of the Westminster rejects will bring too much baggage with them. Others will see it as a step down and can make more money elsewhere (it's what many of them are most interested in after all). Some should just see it as the end of their political career and go back where they came from.

Yep, I agree.

I like that the new Scottish parliament is untarnished by many of the political scandals that have emerged over the past few years. A different culture exists and I think that politicians of all parties behave themselves significantly better than the Westminster lot. Because it is a new parliament there is less of a tendency to slip into bad habits simply because of tradition and "this is the way it has always been". It may be a bit rough around the edges but they are learning and getting better all the time.

The Westminster lot may have a role to play at Holyrood but they will need to do a lot of soul-searching over the next year if they are to understand why what has happened has happened. only then might they have something to offer.


As per usual that was a truly magnificent piece by Irvine Welsh. I often find it hard to articulate my thoughts and feelings about politics but whenever he writes anything I agree with every word, and all I really want to do is say "this".

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm personally p1ssed off with the manner in which parties vote against proposals purely because a party they didn't like were the one's that made it.
I
The minority SNP Administration at Holyrood put forward a number of proposals that were actually favoured by Labour elsewhere, e.g. Minimum Alcohol Pricing, but Labour voted against it purely because they didn't want the SNP to be a success. That played a large part in many people switching their vote in the following Election and giving the SNP a majority (myself included)

I now see something similar happening again, where Labour are against the SNP as a point of principal and won't even consider working with them, even on matters in which they agree.

That's not serving the people, it's self interest.

That coffee smells great doesn't it? :greengrin

[Keith_M]

That coffee smells great doesn't it? :greengrin


:na na: