Officials in the play offs

[Gordy M]

Ive seen it posted many times on here, that the rangers will get some sort of help from officials during the play offs. Can someone explain to me how exactly this will happen?

1. Does every official support rangers (or celtic)
2. In all this time has no official has ever been honest enough to come forward and whistle blow that he was told to favour the old firm(the rangers)??
3. Do we really believe that the authorities tell officials to favour the rangers?
4. Are the sfa/spfl really that corrupt? And no one has ever come out and exposed them?

Or do we only see the decisions that go against us and conclude that it must be down to a bias rather poor officiating??

For the record i dont think officials are corrupt....if i did, id probably chuck the whole thing !!

just interested as to how folk think that rangers will be assisted during the play offs?

[Hibeesmad]

We won't need to worry about Rangers once Queen of the South beat them

[Col2]

Craig Thomson has not taken a Hibs game for a while. I am absolutely certain he will get our next game, especially if it's against Sevco.

We witnessed Willie Collum in the last game. I fully expect the authorities to play the trump cards.

[weecounty hibby]

There is a long long list of decisions that der hun have hsd that have frankly been unbelievable. Some against us off the top of my hesd snf mot even having to think about it are the john mcdonald penalty, the laudrup penalty, the 79 cup final non penalty. Im sure that we could have s pretty long list of them so please add

[Scott Allan Key]

Despite their dirty and niggling style of play Rangers had the best disciplinary record regarding cards issued. Is this not evidence of referees following the script in giving Rangers what they (wrongly) feel they are entitled to, in having favourable decisions go their way?

[hibbybrian]

There is a long long list of decisions that der hun have hsd that have frankly been unbelievable. Some against us off the top of my hesd snf mot even having to think about it are the john mcdonald penalty, the laudrup penalty, the 79 cup final non penalty. Im sure that we could have s pretty long list of them so please add


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glHjPwhAPdI

14789

[weecounty hibby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glHjPwhAPdI

14789

I was sat behind the goals that day directly in line with the incident and there was about a foot of a gap between Benny and that cheating hun ******* MacDonald. I'm sure there's a picture somewhere that shows it. Make no mistake referees have helped them out time after time over the years

[wookie70]

Some of the worst carnage in the streets around ER I have ever witnessed after that MacDonald dive.

There have been way too many shocking decision go in favour of the two establishment teams against us over the years to conclude it can be anything other than bias. I doubt the authority instruct refs because they probably ceased to need to years ago.

[Skol]

Remember the penalty and ulrik Laursen being sent off.

[brog]

I'm not sure if the OP is at the wind up but my memory goes back to 1958 when the ref, Bobby Davidson IIRC, originally allowed an Oldco equaliser in a cup semi-final. The fact that Ralph Brand had clearly punched the ball into the net was incidental. Luckily the linesman kept his flag up & Davidson reluctantly had to chalk off the supposed goal. The really shocking thing however is that the brave Lino never again officiated at a top class game. From then to last week's game where Newco equalised at 2 minutes to 5, this rancid mob have been the subject of favouritism & yes, cheating to ensure they retain/regain their place at the top. Doncaster's original decision to play Newco's game after everyone else's exemplifies the attitude. Does anyone really believe Hibs would have been granted that advantage?

[Geo_1875]

Was there not a linesman in the 90s who was "downgraded" after failing to flag for an incident which would have favoured Oldco at Tynie? Sure he went to court and lost.

[AlbertK86]

I remember being in the east that day going mental at yet another blatant cheat by Rangers and officials

[Bostonhibby]

There is a long long list of decisions that der hun have hsd that have frankly been unbelievable. Some against us off the top of my hesd snf mot even having to think about it are the john mcdonald penalty, the laudrup penalty, the 79 cup final non penalty. Im sure that we could have s pretty long list of them so please add

:agree: Sadly for Scottish football, its not completely about which of the uglies they may or may not support, there have been so many incidents like the ones you mention over my decades of watching the game that its not just incompetence, there's something at the core of the establishment itself that usually means certain teams get the "lucky" or helpful decisions and others don't, or not as many.

We will doubtless see it again when we get Thomson in one of the key games we have to get through. if not Collum will do the needful as well.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm not sure if the OP is at the wind up but my memory goes back to 1958 when the ref, Bobby Davidson IIRC, originally allowed an Oldco equaliser in a cup semi-final. The fact that Ralph Brand had clearly punched the ball into the net was incidental. Luckily the linesman kept his flag up & Davidson reluctantly had to chalk off the supposed goal. The really shocking thing however is that the brave Lino never again officiated at a top class game. From then to last week's game where Newco equalised at 2 minutes to 5, this rancid mob have been the subject of favouritism & yes, cheating to ensure they retain/regain their place at the top. Doncaster's original decision to play Newco's game after everyone else's exemplifies the attitude. Does anyone really believe Hibs would have been granted that advantage?

Jeez Bobby Davidson, forgot about him - straightforward no holds barred hun - Him and Brian McGinlay (?).

[Brunswickbill]

See for yourself :stirrer::stirrer:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SsEJYY3HW8E/TPmCPknxQcI/AAAAAAAACpY/yfDHssaE4Jo/s1600/tiny+wharton.JPG

[emerald green]

The question I often ask myself is this. How do referees and linesmen end up in these roles in the first place?

By this, I mean they must surely at some point in their lives have taken an interest in football, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they would have supported, or at least had a preference for, a particular club. Is it impossible to believe that this preference might be carried forward into their job as an official at matches later in life? They may not sit in the stand with a scarf round their necks anymore, but the old "loyalty" is still there perhaps, and they are not really 100% impartial?

Next, I also believe many officials are basically too scared / intimidated to give decisions against the "bigger" clubs. Those clubs with seemingly the most clout and influence in the corridors of power who may be able to influence their careers, either positively or negatively.

This happens not just in Scotland. Look at the numerous decisions which seemed to favour Manchester United in England, particularly under Ferguson who seemed to deliberately go out to intimidate officials. The penalties, the endless time added on at the end of matches as Ferguson stood at the side staring at his watch? In Spain, I've heard it said that when Real Madrid needed a penalty, they often get one. Paranoia? Can it all just be swept under the carpet as easily as that in the face of lots of evidence over decades?

The next reason is that there may be some officials who for reasons best known to themselves, appear to carry a grudge against certain clubs. Step forward Craig Thomson and his seemingly endless vendetta against Hibs. Can he really be described as impartial given his record when officiating Hibs matches?

Finally, there is just sheer incompetence. For example, how can all six officials not see a clear hand ball in the box? Or, how can one of our "top referees" not see a St Mirren player practically juggling the ball with both hands in the penalty box and waive away loud claims for a penalty all around the ground?

This is where I believe video technology needs to be introduced, especially for high profile, high stakes matches. This could be used to at least try to eliminate some of these seemingly inexplicable refereeing decisions.

[snooky]

Count how many times we have been given dodgy decisions that won us crucial games. Now do the same for the OF.
You'll need a postage stamp for the first calc and a paper mill for the second.

[brog]

[QUOTE=emerald green;4364451]The question I often ask myself is this. How do referees and linesmen end up in these roles in the first place?

Good question! I took my ref's badge when I moved to England & I was coached by a Grade 1 ref, was officiating in top division in the 80's. He was a good guy, unfortunately suffered a breakdown ( honest ) after a pitch invasion at Birmingham IIRC. I was to be fast tracked to Grade 1 but had to give up because of travel with my job. The great majority of my fellow refs were really good guys with a genuine love of the game but some just had no empathy whatsoever & could only ref by the book. To answer your question I believe a small majority really enjoy the sense of power & authority. I do believe Scottish refs are mainly incompetent rather than corrupt but there's no doubt both the bigot brothers usually benefit from their incompetence. It's just human nature, if you know you'll never get any grief from giving a wrong decision to the OF but will suffer hugely if you get it wrong the other way ( see ICT! ) then that has to influence your decision making, even if it's only subconsciously!

[Onion]

Decades of evidence of referees favouring the OF tells it's own story. Probably many reasons for their blatant bias include fear, intimidation, stress, force of habit, favour and cheating. It's human nature for most people to want to be popular and refs are no different, MUCH easier to favour the OF than give a decision against them. IMO there is a general understanding within the authorities and media, that the OF are favoured for lots of obvious reasons. Vlad knew this, we all know this, but no one is prepared to do anything about it.

There's an obvious desire within the SFA/SPFL, media (BT, Sky, press) and probably many Prem teams (incl Celtic) for Sevco to be promoted. This is driven by money and need to raise the profile of the game again. That alone introduces strong potential for bias, which in turn questions the integrity of the game.

So, no one should be shocked when a ref bottles a decision or favours the Huns in the Play-offs. He's going to get little grief for favouring Sevco and helping to get them into the Prem, but will be hounded and vilified if he gives a game changing decision against them. We've already seen with Doncaster that integrity is trumped by money and self interest.

[Gordy M]

I'm not sure if the OP is at the wind up but my memory goes back to 1958 when the ref, Bobby Davidson IIRC, originally allowed an Oldco equaliser in a cup semi-final. The fact that Ralph Brand had clearly punched the ball into the net was incidental. Luckily the linesman kept his flag up & Davidson reluctantly had to chalk off the supposed goal. The really shocking thing however is that the brave Lino never again officiated at a top class game. From then to last week's game where Newco equalised at 2 minutes to 5, this rancid mob have been the subject of favouritism & yes, cheating to ensure they retain/regain their place at the top. Doncaster's original decision to play Newco's game after everyone else's exemplifies the attitude. Does anyone really believe Hibs would have been granted that advantage?
Why would i be at the wind up??? Basically what your saying is that scottish football is corrupt to the core and that the 'establishment' will cheat to ensure the rangers will get through the play offs?? Im saying i refuse to believe it is....?? I asked for evidence of that, and all i have seen is examples of bad refereeing? Two different things imo. The rangers example against falkirk, why woulx the ref not just add 5 mins on? Instead of 2? If he was 'cheating' then surely thats what he would do??

[Lucius Apuleius]

Why would i be at the wind up??? Basically what your saying is that scottish football is corrupt to the core and that the 'establishment' will cheat to ensure the rangers will get through the play offs?? Im saying i refuse to believe it is....?? I asked for evidence of that, and all i have seen is examples of bad refereeing? Two different things imo. The rangers example against falkirk, why woulx the ref not just add 5 mins on? Instead of 2? If he was 'cheating' then surely thats what he would do??

I happen to agree. Incompetence more than corruption. However I do think certain referees err on the side of caution to the OF rather than make a contentious decision.

[Gordy M]

I happen to agree. Incompetence more than corruption. However I do think certain referees err on the side of caution to the OF rather than make a contentious decision.
Yeh mate, i dont particularly disagree with that, but the suggestion was that the authorities would cheat to assist the rangers. I just wondered how people thought they would do this?

Wait and see, some ref will give them a dodgy pen and il look a bit silly!!! Lol.

[H18 SFR]

Was there not a linesman in the 90s who was "downgraded" after failing to flag for an incident which would have favoured Oldco at Tynie? Sure he went to court and lost.

George McGuire. He actually won his case, it was ruled that he should be returned to the senior list of referees but did not specify at which level so the SFA put him back on as a referee in the east of sctland league.

[Eyrie]

I said this in another thread, and it bears repeating.

If Queen of the South beat Sevco Huns, we can expect to get all the "soft" decisions in our favour because Hibs being promoted will make it much easier for Sevco Huns next season.

[fatbloke]

My laddie was working at Tynie yesterday and says that the nonsense has begun already he reckons both Rangers goals should not have been. Apparently HMFCc were denied a free kick in the lead up to the first and denied a stonewall penalty in the build up to the second. Have not seen the highlights yet so will reserve judgement until then. I'm sure a wee nudge and and a wink here and there will be made to help Sevco get promoted. After all it will save Scottish football according to some plums e.g. John(or is it Joan) Collins.

[emerald green]

Good question! I took my ref's badge when I moved to England & I was coached by a Grade 1 ref, was officiating in top division in the 80's. He was a good guy, unfortunately suffered a breakdown ( honest ) after a pitch invasion at Birmingham IIRC. I was to be fast tracked to Grade 1 but had to give up because of travel with my job. The great majority of my fellow refs were really good guys with a genuine love of the game but some just had no empathy whatsoever & could only ref by the book. To answer your question I believe a small majority really enjoy the sense of power & authority. I do believe Scottish refs are mainly incompetent rather than corrupt but there's no doubt both the bigot brothers usually benefit from their incompetence. It's just human nature, if you know you'll never get any grief from giving a wrong decision to the OF but will suffer hugely if you get it wrong the other way ( see ICT! ) then that has to influence your decision making, even if it's only subconsciously!

Thanks, some interesting points from someone who was actually a referee! Can I ask you this? Were you a Hibs supporter before you took your referee's badge? I'm asking this because I believe some referees do retain a "liking" (for want of a better word) for certain clubs. See my previous post.

Also, the bit in bold - that sounds awfully like Craig Thomson to me.

[PatHead]

I can't remember the last time Celtic, Rangers or Sevco got a decision in their favour when there was uproar. When a decision goes against them though.............................

[Onion]

I happen to agree. Incompetence more than corruption. However I do think certain referees err on the side of caution to the OF rather than make a contentious decision.

That isn't incompetence, it's a deliberate act favouring one side over the other aka cheating.

[brog]

Why would i be at the wind up??? Basically what your saying is that scottish football is corrupt to the core and that the 'establishment' will cheat to ensure the rangers will get through the play offs?? Im saying i refuse to believe it is....?? I asked for evidence of that, and all i have seen is examples of bad refereeing? Two different things imo. The rangers example against falkirk, why woulx the ref not just add 5 mins on? Instead of 2? If he was 'cheating' then surely thats what he would do??

If you read my other post you'll see I said I favoured incompetence over corruption. However, the example I gave from the 50's ( where an official was downgraded for doing his job ) was IMO a clear example of corruption & I also gave the recent example of Doncaster attempting to give Newco an advantage by playing their game after all other games. That's not bad refereeing, if it's not corruption it certainly isn't sporting integrity as LD pointed out.

[brog]

Thanks, some interesting points from someone who was actually a referee! Can I ask you this? Were you a Hibs supporter before you took your referee's badge? I'm asking this because I believe some referees do retain a "liking" (for want of a better word) for certain clubs. See my previous post.

Also, the bit in bold - that sounds awfully like Craig Thomson to me.

Been a Hibs fan all my life but all my refereeing was done in South England. I agree your thought re CT!!

[Lucius Apuleius]

That isn't incompetence, it's a deliberate act favouring one side over the other aka cheating.

Disagree. You are taking my words too deep. Erring on the side of caution says he was unsure of the decision to make in my opinion hence incompetence.

[emerald green]

Been a Hibs fan all my life but all my refereeing was done in South England. I agree your thought re CT!!

OK cheers. :aok:

[ancient hibee]

Wasn't the linesman who gave Rangers a dreadful penalty against Hearts a few years back a policeman at Govan?

[emerald green]

Wasn't the linesman who gave Rangers a dreadful penalty against Hearts a few years back a policeman at Govan?

I think that may be correct IIRC. It was all treated as a big joke by some I seem to remember, and then swept under the carpet as per usual.

[MB62]

Remember a game at Ibrox in the 80's. We were in the top tier of the Broomloan stand in the days before segregation. The score was 0-0 and my cousin who was driving, always liked to leave that place 5 minutes early to get away from that lot. As we made our way to the exit, Kevin McKee went on a 'mazy' run down the wing from his right back role. We stopped at the exit to the stairs as Kevin ran in to the box where he promptly sent skywards by Donkey MacPherson. 'PENALTY' I shouted, as a few thousand pairs of eyes stared daggers at me, but thankfully THE most blatant penalty I have ever seen for Hibs at Ibrox was NOT GIVEN and we escaped down the stairs and away in the car, the game finished 0-0.

As for Sevco and decisions affecting the play-offs. How on earth were the Yams denied a penalty on Saturday?
In what was two identical situations, Celtc have their keeper sent off in the semi-final off the cup against Inverness and Inverness get a penalty, yet hearts don't even get the penalty against Sevco. The ref should be made to publicy state why that was NOT a penalty and explain the difference between the two situations.
Forward runs through one on one with the keeper, knock the ball past him and keeper pulls him down (or at least the players momentum takes him in to the keeper, clever by the forward).
One is a penalty and a sending off, the other is NOTHING.

At that particular time, the games stood Hearts 0-1 Sevco, Falkirk 0-1 Hibs.
Our game was far from being won but a penalty for the Yams and a sending off would greatly affected Sevco's chances of winning their game, plus their keeper would be suspended for the play-of against QofS.

I think every help will be given to that lot to try and help them get up to the top division for the first time in their short history and if any team manages to beat them over two legs, they will have thoroughly deserved it.

[brog]

By coincidence today there's a piece in the DR which talks about the ref, Jim Callaghan being suspended by the SFA in 1969 for 2 months. His crime was failing to send off John Hughes in an OF game. Oldco sent in a letter of complaint & the ref was suspended. Possibly corruption is too strong a word but it's undue influence at least.

[The Leith Dutch]

Two things:

1) Bring back the Maltese referees - no bias there.

2) Let's just play like we did when we dismantled them 4-0 at Easter Road and they can have Walter ****ing Smith refereeing with John Grieg as linesman and they'll still be in the championship next year.

[Waxy]

Two things:

1) Bring back the Maltese referees - no bias there.

2) Let's just play like we did when we dismantled them 4-0 at Easter Road and they can have Walter ****ing Smith refereeing with John Grieg as linesman and they'll still be in the championship next year.Can't remember beating QoS 4-0 but aye good shout with Maltese refs.

[Peevemor]

Remember a game at Ibrox in the 80's. We were in the top tier of the Broomloan stand in the days before segregation. The score was 0-0 and my cousin who was driving, always liked to leave that place 5 minutes early to get away from that lot. As we made our way to the exit, Kevin McKee went on a 'mazy' run down the wing from his right back role. We stopped at the exit to the stairs as Kevin ran in to the box where he promptly sent skywards by Donkey MacPherson. 'PENALTY' I shouted, as a few thousand pairs of eyes stared daggers at me, but thankfully THE most blatant penalty I have ever seen for Hibs at Ibrox was NOT GIVEN and we escaped down the stairs and away in the car, the game finished 0-0.

As for Sevco and decisions affecting the play-offs. How on earth were the Yams denied a penalty on Saturday?
In what was two identical situations, Celtc have their keeper sent off in the semi-final off the cup against Inverness and Inverness get a penalty, yet hearts don't even get the penalty against Sevco. The ref should be made to publicy state why that was NOT a penalty and explain the difference between the two situations.
Forward runs through one on one with the keeper, knock the ball past him and keeper pulls him down (or at least the players momentum takes him in to the keeper, clever by the forward).
One is a penalty and a sending off, the other is NOTHING.

At that particular time, the games stood Hearts 0-1 Sevco, Falkirk 0-1 Hibs.
Our game was far from being won but a penalty for the Yams and a sending off would greatly affected Sevco's chances of winning their game, plus their keeper would be suspended for the play-of against QofS.

I think every help will be given to that lot to try and help them get up to the top division for the first time in their short history and if any team manages to beat them over two legs, they will have thoroughly deserved it.

I remember a match at Ibrox in the mid 90s where Kevin McAllister was 'halfed' in the penalty box about 30 seconds into the match. I was in the Waddell Suite with my uber-hun ex-father-in-law and even he couldn't believe that no penalty was given.

You get used to it though. Anyone remember Andy Goram lying unconscious in the Hibs box for a full minute until Rangers scored? :rolleyes:

[Waxy]

Remember a game at Ibrox in the 80's. We were in the top tier of the Broomloan stand in the days before segregation. The score was 0-0 and my cousin who was driving, always liked to leave that place 5 minutes early to get away from that lot. As we made our way to the exit, Kevin McKee went on a 'mazy' run down the wing from his right back role. We stopped at the exit to the stairs as Kevin ran in to the box where he promptly sent skywards by Donkey MacPherson. 'PENALTY' I shouted, as a few thousand pairs of eyes stared daggers at me, but thankfully THE most blatant penalty I have ever seen for Hibs at Ibrox was NOT GIVEN and we escaped down the stairs and away in the car, the game finished 0-0.

As for Sevco and decisions affecting the play-offs. How on earth were the Yams denied a penalty on Saturday?
In what was two identical situations, Celtc have their keeper sent off in the semi-final off the cup against Inverness and Inverness get a penalty, yet hearts don't even get the penalty against Sevco. The ref should be made to publicy state why that was NOT a penalty and explain the difference between the two situations.
Forward runs through one on one with the keeper, knock the ball past him and keeper pulls him down (or at least the players momentum takes him in to the keeper, clever by the forward).
One is a penalty and a sending off, the other is NOTHING.

At that particular time, the games stood Hearts 0-1 Sevco, Falkirk 0-1 Hibs.
Our game was far from being won but a penalty for the Yams and a sending off would greatly affected Sevco's chances of winning their game, plus their keeper would be suspended for the play-of against QofS.

I think every help will be given to that lot to try and help them get up to the top division for the first time in their short history and if any team manages to beat them over two legs, they will have thoroughly deserved it.what about the stonewall penalty not given at the end of the 1979 Scottish cup final? Funny how no trace of tv coverage are available.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

My laddie was working at Tynie yesterday and says that the nonsense has begun already he reckons both Rangers goals should not have been. Apparently HMFCc were denied a free kick in the lead up to the first and denied a stonewall penalty in the build up to the second. Have not seen the highlights yet so will reserve judgement until then. I'm sure a wee nudge and and a wink here and there will be made to help Sevco get promoted. After all it will save Scottish football according to some plums e.g. John(or is it Joan) Collins.

Never a penalty, keeper got the ball with his hand, cannae be bothered checking the other one.