PDA

View Full Version : Tickets play off charge or not for season ticket holders



familyman
01-05-2015, 01:13 PM
I believe that season ticket holders for this season, who paid after all really in hope of SPL fixtures ,must be given free admission to play off home games..I also think these fixtures are part of the basic league season ,even if there are issues re sharing tv and other revenues from them they must be seen as PART OF THE SEASONS GAMES....not just because we in effect overpaid in the beginning for the season tickets given relegation..What do folks think?There has to be a line drawn on this, it is I guess not unreasonable we got no refund this year as money as it went to help the club(even if it paid Butchers salary)...
opinions on this worth a discussion perhaps..

CallumLaidlaw
01-05-2015, 01:18 PM
*If the SPFL say that season ticket holders can get in for free but the clubs need to cover the costs, then I do not want hibs to do this. Could cost them around £200k.

*I understand the point about it being part of the season, but I don't know any other league that has a play off system that allows ST holders in for free. These are additional games.

*Maybe a comprimise (based on you saying that some people bought tickets based on being in the premiership and getting 19 home games) would be for the club to cover costs of the 1st home playoff game to take the ticket up to 19 games. Shows a good gesture by the club but makes sure they cover costs in the additional games.

*If the SPFL rule that ST holders can enter for free at no cost to the club, and Motherwell and Rangers do so, then I would expect Hibs to follow suit.

Cammy
01-05-2015, 01:22 PM
I believe that season ticket holders for this season, who paid after all really in hope of SPL fixtures ,must be given free admission to play off home games..I also think these fixtures are part of the basic league season ,even if there are issues re sharing tv and other revenues from them they must be seen as PART OF THE SEASONS GAMES....not just because we in effect overpaid in the beginning for the season tickets given relegation..What do folks think?There has to be a line drawn on this, it is I guess not unreasonable we got no refund this year as money as it went to help the club(even if it paid Butchers salary)...
opinions on this worth a discussion perhaps..

I totally understand where you are coming from but I renewed a season ticket for my 2 kids and myself after we were relegated and don't feel I'm entitled to get in for free. The season ticket is for the league games and the play offs are not part of that just as cup games are not part of it. If we get in for free then great, I wont complain, but if we have to pay then so be it. I just hope we can get back up to the Premier at the end of it. :flag:

GreenCastle
01-05-2015, 01:25 PM
100% there will be a larger crowd present if ST's are included.

Surely that's what we want ?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/318884-who-is-in-the-right-over-the-spfl-play-off-season-ticket-row/

greenlex
01-05-2015, 01:26 PM
Cup top up purchases should be allowed to see this game or indeed three games

Geo_1875
01-05-2015, 01:36 PM
100% there will be a larger crowd present if ST's are included.

Surely that's what we want ?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/318884-who-is-in-the-right-over-the-spfl-play-off-season-ticket-row/

Have you read that article? Simply highlights the incompetence of the football authorities in Scotland. How is it possible to draft a rule that is incomprehensible and can be sidestepped in so many ways? Were the lawyers not up to the job?

It mentions Hibs setting a precedent last year by allowing STs free entry to the Hamilton game. I thought the club paid that money to the SPFL.

Future17
01-05-2015, 01:54 PM
*If the SPFL say that season ticket holders can get in for free but the clubs need to cover the costs, then I do not want hibs to do this. Could cost them around £200k.

*I understand the point about it being part of the season, but I don't know any other league that has a play off system that allows ST holders in for free. These are additional games.

*Maybe a comprimise (based on you saying that some people bought tickets based on being in the premiership and getting 19 home games) would be for the club to cover costs of the 1st home playoff game to take the ticket up to 19 games. Shows a good gesture by the club but makes sure they cover costs in the additional games.

*If the SPFL rule that ST holders can enter for free at no cost to the club, and Motherwell and Rangers do so, then I would expect Hibs to follow suit.

I'd agree with most of that. I don't think Hibs should make a loss on any playoff(s) ticket sales, but I don't think they should be seeking to make a profit either, as these games have essentially come about due a failure of the staff at the club over a prolonged period of time, including this season.

I think the fairest proposition might be to charge all fans attending the first home playoff game and them, assuming there was a 2nd or even 3rd playoff game, to allow ST holders and those attending the first playoff game free (or reduced price) entry as far as the proceeds of the first game would allow.

Andy74
01-05-2015, 01:55 PM
I would prefer to pay. It's neither regular league or cup.

Phil MaGlass
01-05-2015, 02:01 PM
I think everyone should pay, but, how about ST,s have to pay but get free entry to a glamour friendly in the closed season?

Thecat23
01-05-2015, 02:02 PM
As long as the club didn't lose out. But I 100% feel after buying a season ticket and CTU I shouldn't be charged for the play off games. For me it's still part of the season as we are playing to see what league we will be in!

Remembering we have already over paid for season tickets this season. Again this isn't Hibs fault but hope common sense is seen and they are included!

bod
01-05-2015, 02:13 PM
*I understand the point about it being part of the season, but I don't know any other league that has a play off system that allows ST holders in for free. These are additional games.


which other leagues that have a play off system doesn't allow seasy holders in for free ?

Future17
01-05-2015, 02:28 PM
I think everyone should pay, but, how about ST,s have to pay but get free entry to a glamour friendly in the closed season?

That would probably cost the club more than just letting folk into the playoff games for free.

Scouse Hibee
01-05-2015, 02:28 PM
Hibs can't afford to cover the cost of the levy if they let us (ST holders) in for free. I can afford to pay to get in so I'm pretty relaxed about paying despite the fact that I paid SPL prices for my ST and never thought we would be relegated when I bought it. Would obviously prefer not to pay but not at the expense to the club.

CallumLaidlaw
01-05-2015, 02:31 PM
which other leagues that have a play off system doesn't allow seasy holders in for free ?

England for a start

HH81
01-05-2015, 02:34 PM
which other leagues that have a play off system doesn't allow seasy holders in for free ?

I have not heard of season tickets being valid for play off games in any sport. Rugby League is pay when were in play offs.

Geo_1875
01-05-2015, 02:41 PM
I have not heard of season tickets being valid for play off games in any sport. Rugby League is pay when were in play offs.

That's not a real sport.

HH81
01-05-2015, 02:52 PM
That's not a real sport.

The people who fear do tend to say that.

Kojock
01-05-2015, 02:55 PM
Cup top up purchases should be allowed to see this game or indeed three games

Why?? Fans who opted for the CTU were lucky enough to get 4 home ties for their money. This probably cost Hibs money in the long run as they have to give the away team half the gate money.

Keith_M
01-05-2015, 03:02 PM
As long as it didn't cost Hibs any extra, I'd like to see ST holders get into Play Off games for half price.

CallumLaidlaw
01-05-2015, 03:11 PM
As long as it didn't cost Hibs any extra, I'd like to see ST holders get into Play Off games for half price.

Problem is, the SPFL have set the prices at a minimum of £15 and £10. I think its pretty disgusting that they are dictating what a club can charge. Look at Falkirk, they have let under 12's in free all season, yet all of a sudden they would need to charge a tenner if they had been involved.

GreenCastle
01-05-2015, 03:14 PM
Have you read that article? Simply highlights the incompetence of the football authorities in Scotland. How is it possible to draft a rule that is incomprehensible and can be sidestepped in so many ways? Were the lawyers not up to the job?

It mentions Hibs setting a precedent last year by allowing STs free entry to the Hamilton game. I thought the club paid that money to the SPFL.

Agreed - shows the incompetence.

Point 6 for next season - http://wearehibernianfc.co.uk/assets/st-t-c.pdf

CallumLaidlaw
01-05-2015, 03:16 PM
Agreed - shows the incompetence.

Point 6 for next season - http://wearehibernianfc.co.uk/assets/st-t-c.pdf

That could be worded better, considering it doesnt include cup matches.

JimBHibees
01-05-2015, 03:26 PM
which other leagues that have a play off system doesn't allow seasy holders in for free ?

The Championship last year QOS, Falkirk and Hamilton season ticket holders all paid for the play off game.

JimBHibees
01-05-2015, 03:29 PM
What about free entry for fans who have bought next seasons tickets? :stirrer: :greengrin

Keith_M
01-05-2015, 03:35 PM
The Championship last year QOS, Falkirk and Hamilton season ticket holders all paid for the play off game.


Ehm, sorry to be pedantic but, how is that an 'other league'?

JimBHibees
01-05-2015, 03:42 PM
Ehm, sorry to be pedantic but, how is that an 'other league'?

Your right it isn't. :greengrin

Nando™
01-05-2015, 03:44 PM
I hate the idea of it actually costing the club money for us to attend, although maybe a small gesture could be made to ST holders by subsidising adult tickets. 5 quid off, paid by the club. It's a wee nod to the people that have paid their money upfront and maintains value in a season ticket while ultimately not losing that much, approx £12,500 per game according to my fag packet maths.

Whether or not it "should be this" or "should be that", the fact is that, at present, it will cost the club money to let ST holders in for free. Surely people can see that, by demanding play-off games for free, you're helping to reduce Stubbs' budget for next season.

We seem to be in a no-win situation with this, people (including myself) will moan no matter what they decide to do.

Arch Stanton
01-05-2015, 03:51 PM
I believe that season ticket holders for this season, who paid after all really in hope of SPL fixtures ,must be given free admission to play off home games..I also think these fixtures are part of the basic league season ,even if there are issues re sharing tv and other revenues from them they must be seen as PART OF THE SEASONS GAMES....not just because we in effect overpaid in the beginning for the season tickets given relegation..What do folks think?There has to be a line drawn on this, it is I guess not unreasonable we got no refund this year as money as it went to help the club(even if it paid Butchers salary)...
opinions on this worth a discussion perhaps..

I don't think it is a very strong argument. For a start it involves teams from 2 leagues so hardly part of 'basic league season' as you say and since they are knock-out they aren't 'league' fixtures at all, are they?

In my book a basic league season would cover so many up and so many down and at the end of this season Hearts were first and we'll be 2nd/3rd. The idea of play-offs is an innovation and while it doesn't look like it has been thought out very well I would favour everyone paying.

Mind you, I don't have a season ticket. :greengrin

Steve20
01-05-2015, 03:54 PM
Season ticket holders should get in for nothing. Why should they pay again because the club failed to get promoted automatically.

Also, it's based on league positions and decides the league you'll be in. It's part of the league campaign. Anyone saying it's not is just being awkward.

marinello59
01-05-2015, 04:18 PM
If it costs the club money to let ST holders in for free then we should pay. No way would I like my match going subsidised at the expense of next years player budget.

iwasthere1972
01-05-2015, 04:39 PM
If we have to pay then fair enough but when the SPFL come up with this ridiculous possible six game play off then I think a tenner should be the maximum. We're already paying through the nose to watch eighteen home games a season and if Doncaster wasn't such a useless git there would be some more money in football. Admittedly not megabucks but we should never be without a sponsor.

END OFF.

O'Rourke3
01-05-2015, 04:49 PM
If it costs the club money to let ST holders in for free then we should pay. No way would I like my match going subsidised at the expense of next years player budget.

I'm conflicted either way. Having bought a ST for 19 games in the top league I got 18 in a lower tier so there's a bit saying I am owed.
If they let ST holders in in their ticket there will be a bigger crowd. A bigger crowd supporting the team could be the difference and so the pay-off is top league football. Better budgets more Cat A games - so worth the gamble? There would likely be more ST holders were we promoted....

However we may need the money and we may not succeed. Like others I can afford it so I'm not going to start hat kicking if the club ask me to pay up.

But my first point. I know it was difficult for the club to do something having sold STs before relegation so that committed the walk up price. I was not going to complain about what I paid. I did however expect some form of gesture on renewing albeit stuff you may never get the use of, like vouchers. Maybe the Stubbs autograph was intended to fill that void of course :greengrin

DH1875
01-05-2015, 04:57 PM
If the playoff final was played at Hampden in the same way that the final down south is at wembley would we all expect to get in for nowt? Course we wouldn't. Most if not all other leagues charge for playoffs and so do a lot of other sports. Really don't get the arguement for not paying for them at all.

iwasthere1972
01-05-2015, 05:04 PM
If the playoff final was played at Hampden in the same way that the final down south is at wembley would we all expect to get in for nowt? Course we wouldn't. Most if not all other leagues charge for playoffs and so do a lot of other sports. Really don't get the arguement for not paying for them at all.

The difference is that we're not talking about Hampden but home grounds. As I said before, as a season ticket holder I don't mind paying a tenner but anything above that is a joke. This is the Scottish Championship.

Nuff said.

bingo70
01-05-2015, 05:05 PM
Sorry if old news but I see spfl have refused rangers request.

I didn't see rangers make a request, more telling the spfl what they'd be doing.

DH1875
01-05-2015, 05:16 PM
The difference is that we're not talking about Hampden but home grounds. As I said before, as a season ticket holder I don't mind paying a tenner but anything above that is a joke. This is the Scottish Championship.

Nuff said.

OK but to get to that game at wembley the teams have to play home games and guess what, the fans have and have always had to pay.

greenginger
01-05-2015, 05:43 PM
http://sport.stv.tv/football/319139-spfl-to-refuse-permission-for-rangers-play-off-season-ticket-plan/

Rule C 26 is ambiguous alright, but I seem to recall some legal ruling that if an obvious ambiguous clause is included in a document the interpretation is held to be that least favourable to the clause writers ie. the SPFL.

greenlex
01-05-2015, 06:01 PM
Why?? Fans who opted for the CTU were lucky enough to get 4 home ties for their money. This probably cost Hibs money in the long run as they have to give the away team half the gate money. if it's not a league game then it's surely a domestic cup game?

Andy74
01-05-2015, 06:02 PM
Season ticket holders should get in for nothing. Why should they pay again because the club failed to get promoted automatically.

Also, it's based on league positions and decides the league you'll be in. It's part of the league campaign. Anyone saying it's not is just being awkward.

It's the opposite of being awkward is it not?

Quite happy to pay extra and accept its not part of regular season games that were covered by the season ticket.

I think trying to come up with an argument that this is part of the season and Hibs should take a hit or not look to try and recoup some money from this is the awkward stance.

Most sports that have play offs talk about regular and post season games and the post season games are charged.

Andy74
01-05-2015, 06:04 PM
if it's not a league game then it's surely a domestic cup game?

Eh no, it's a play off game. Not sure what's tricky about there being a third category that isn't a regular league game and isn't a cup game.

Wheat Hound
01-05-2015, 06:05 PM
So if it's nothing to do with the league, and isn't classed as such, why do previous yellow and red cards carry into it?

Nando™
01-05-2015, 06:11 PM
if it's not a league game then it's surely a domestic cup game?

We don't win any cups for winning the final.

Eyrie
01-05-2015, 06:35 PM
The key word is "payable".

If season ticket holders get in for nothing then there is nothing "payable" in relation to their attendance, so the only monies payable relate to both home and visiting fans who pay at the gate.

Stuff the SPFL and its greed.

greenlex
01-05-2015, 06:37 PM
Either way it's a domestic home game and season ticket holders should be in for nothing. Cup top up purchasers should feel especially aggrieved. Can't believe the clubs would sign up to such a financial deal.

greenlex
01-05-2015, 06:40 PM
Eh no, it's a play off game. Not sure what's tricky about there being a third category that isn't a regular league game and isn't a cup game.

There's nothing tricky about it. Having purchased a season ticket and a cup top up I would be expecting to be at every home domestic game. This is especially grating as we paid top dollar for the championship privilege. I know it's not Hibs fault but it really grinds my gears. I trust that's scceptable to you.

guillaume
01-05-2015, 07:24 PM
I'd be annoyed after buying shares this year for the squad not to benefit from the extra funds because the club end up subsidising a group of fans who want to get into matches without paying.

greenlex
01-05-2015, 07:34 PM
I'd be annoyed after buying shares this year for the squad not to benefit from the extra funds because the club end up subsidising a group of fans who want to get into matches without paying.
Ooooo I bought shares too and I'd be just as pissed off if the funds were used to allow a group of fans in without paying.Just saying.

Frazerbob
01-05-2015, 07:36 PM
I don't but this argument that it'll be a much smaller crowd if ST holders have to pay. How many folk, who have gone to all or nearly all games, week in/week out and care enough about the club to buy a season ticket in the Championship, will decide not to go when it gets to crunch time for the sake of £20 odd?

familyman
01-05-2015, 07:37 PM
It does seems SPFL have ruled, but if you buy shares, by a cup top up season ticket, by a pie,buy a programme ,miss game or two because of tv schedule changes and buy another season ticket for next season.. you still are going to be asked to cough up for play off games, this seems greedy for sure ,after all the top bottom 6 split in SPL is seen as an artificially created thing to create more funds ,but season ticket holders do not pay extra for the last few games in SPL, seems we are saying a notional sum of £10 maybe less for concessions would be acceptable, no -one wants Hibs to lose out of course....maybe if we have to pay Hibs can at least offer us a token or something to use next year ...
His need a big crowd above all else and that is a good reason to enable season ticket holders in free surely.This is a shambles not of his doing though.

marinello59
01-05-2015, 07:41 PM
It does seems SPFL have ruled, but if you buy shares, by a cup top up season ticket, by a pie,buy a programme ,miss game or two because of tv schedule changes and buy another season ticket for next season.. you still are going to be asked to cough up for play off games, this seems greedy for sure ,after all the top bottom 6 split in SPL is seen as an artificially created thing to create more funds ,but season ticket holders do not pay extra for the last few games in SPL, seems we are saying a notional sum of £10 maybe less for concessions would be acceptable, no -one wants Hibs to lose out of course....maybe if we have to pay Hibs can at least offer us a token or something to use next year ...
His need a big crowd above all else and that is a good reason to enable season ticket holders in free surely.This is a shambles not of his doing though.

Shambles. Is paying for the play offs down south a shambles then?

Lee Marvin
01-05-2015, 07:55 PM
I don't but this argument that it'll be a much smaller crowd if ST holders have to pay. How many folk, who have gone to all or nearly all games, week in/week out and care enough about the club to buy a season ticket in the Championship, will decide not to go when it gets to crunch time for the sake of £20 odd?

Totally agree. I'd say 95% plus would go, whether they had to pay or not. Therefore, doing this will make a very minimal difference to the crowd size.

HappyAsHellas
01-05-2015, 08:24 PM
Due to work ( or lack of ) I couldn't buy a season ticket this season but have only missed one home game. I have paid £22 to watch the likes of Cowdenbeath and £28 to watch the huns/mini huns. We were told at the outset that the prices were being kept up to bring in quality, a statement that some on here openly ridiculed. Alagui, Allan, Gray, Fontaine, Fyvie, Malonga is what this money has enabled us to bring to the club, as well as a forward thinking manager and backroom staff. Now that we're at crunch time some people want to quibble for what looks like will be a £15 admission to try and get promoted? Someone even had the audacity to say that because we failed for automatic promotion Hibs should throw open the doors? Absolutely unbelievable!

Carheenlea
01-05-2015, 08:27 PM
I`ve had what I paid for this season - my seat in the East for all League home games, and because I didn`t take the Cup Top up - my seat reserved for me to buy for the Cup games. The play-offs are a separate entity as far as I`m concerned, and after the debacle of last season, I`m just happy that we have qualified for them and happy to buy tickets accordingly.
The priority for me is simply to get promoted back to the top flight as soon as possible rather than looking for freebies.

greenlex
01-05-2015, 08:52 PM
Dont get me wrong folks I'll be there no matter the cost. My point is and Hibs have backed this up that we shouldn't have to pay for this as already overpriced season ticket holders. It wouldn't be so bad if the cash was going to Hibs but most if it isn't. It's going in the main to Celtic. I'm out.

Future17
02-05-2015, 07:03 AM
Whether it's part of the league campaign, a cup tournament or a third category is, IMHO, irrelevant. What is most relevant (and what will ultimately control Hibs' decision-making on this issue) is how it will affect the club financially.

As many on here have already said, you don't know 100% what you're getting when you buy a season ticket and, for many, that extended to what division we'd be in.

It would not have been possible for Hibs to factor in the cost of playoff games into a season ticket package when we started to sell them, as we had not been relegated at that stage. Even now, with one game of this season to go, we don't know whether we'll be playing 1, 2 or 3 home playoff games. Even if we finish 2nd after today we won't know whether we'll be playing 1 or 2 playoff games.

With that in mind, I think the only sensible approach is to put in place a pricing structure which prevents the club making a loss over 1, 2 or 3 games.

Nando™
02-05-2015, 07:10 AM
Whether it's part of the league campaign, a cup tournament or a third category is, IMHO, irrelevant. What is most relevant (and what will ultimately control Hibs' decision-making on this issue) is how it will affect the club financially.

As many on here have already said, you don't know 100% what you're getting when you buy a season ticket and, for many, that extended to what division we'd be in.

It would not have been possible for Hibs to factor in the cost of playoff games into a season ticket package when we started to sell them, as we had not been relegated at that stage. Even now, with one game of this season to go, we don't know whether we'll be playing 1, 2 or 3 home playoff games. Even if we finish 2nd after today we won't know whether we'll be playing 1 or 2 playoff games.

With that in mind, I think the only sensible approach is to put in place a pricing structure which prevents the club making a loss over 1, 2 or 3 games.

Spot on.

DH1875
02-05-2015, 07:40 AM
Checked out the QOS forum and it would seem all 9 of them are happy with this and that they think both us and newco are being unreasonable.

CallumLaidlaw
02-05-2015, 07:42 AM
As I've said, I have no issue with being charged. I just wish the club were getting more than 50% of what I pay and I hope with a possible 6 games, prices are kept to a minimum

Peevemor
02-05-2015, 07:50 AM
Why not charge ST holders 50% of the recommended price (£7.50 & £5.00), thus making a gesture toward ST holders while not costing the club any money?

greenginger
02-05-2015, 09:12 AM
The reason the SPFL is insisting on all spectators paying for the play-offs is pretty obvious.

It is Doncaster trying to keep his job. His failure to find a sponsor for any of the leagues and the pittance paid for TV coverage means he has to find funds from elsewhere for an end of season divi-up amongst all the clubs.

50 % of the gross is robbery. I could see some playoff fixtures ( not this season ) when the home club's 50% goes entirely on match day costs and travel to the second leg.

Sir David Gray
02-05-2015, 09:44 AM
So if it's nothing to do with the league, and isn't classed as such, why do previous yellow and red cards carry into it?

Precisely the point I have made on a couple of occasions. :agree:

I think the idea of charging season ticket holders for watching play off matches at Easter Road is ridiculous, however having read a lot about it over the last few weeks, I understand that the SPFL is really leaving Hibs with little choice in the matter.

I don't, however, understand how they can stipulate that Sevco cannot let season ticket holders in for free when they have said that they will pay any shortfall out of the club's own coffers.

If the SPFL is still receiving the same amount of money, what difference should it make to them whether the income is coming straight from the pockets of the fans or from the club's own finances?

lucky
02-05-2015, 09:53 AM
If it costs Hibs then no but if not then yes. The cut of the gate money the SPLF are taking is a joke. But then again it's Scottish football so nothing should surprise me

number9dream
02-05-2015, 09:56 AM
The key word is "payable".

If season ticket holders get in for nothing then there is nothing "payable" in relation to their attendance, so the only monies payable relate to both home and visiting fans who pay at the gate.

Stuff the SPFL and its greed.

It may depend on who has the best lawyers arguing over this 26c rule. And, of course, those legal fees will take more money out of the game.

However, it should be remembered that the SPFL is not some evil autonomous entity dreaming up ways to screw us, it reflects the views of member clubs, who have consented to these rules and voted against changing them recently.
That said, I can't believe nobody has proposed a vote of no confidence in Doncaster, Blair etc over their various bunglings, which must now include letting Hibs away with this season ticket issue last time...