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Lago
29-04-2015, 02:43 PM
Reported in todays Daily Mail that Celtic considering bids for 2 Dund Utd players, Souter and Cetci (spelling?). No doubht within months they will complain about lack of competition and demand a move to EPL. Do they ever raise their own young players or have any decent scouting system.

Coults1875
29-04-2015, 02:49 PM
or have any decent scouting system.

Do they not have the ex hibs scout John Park at the club?

jacomo
29-04-2015, 02:54 PM
Gonna raid Dundee Utd again, you mean?

lyonhibs
29-04-2015, 02:56 PM
Lack of domestic competition..............harms Celtc in Europe................we've outgrown the SPL...................repeat to fade.

********s, the lot of them.

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:07 PM
Doesn't bother me to be honest, they are the team with the most money to spend in Scotland and its obvious they will be able to pay for better players than the others.

I don't think anyone is forcing those teams to accept bids and at least in theory the money is being kept within the domestic game.

I'd be delighted if Hibs were taking the better players from teams below us consistently so can't complain about Celtic doing it.

Pete
29-04-2015, 03:09 PM
Reported in todays Daily Mail that Celtic considering bids for 2 Dund Utd players, Souter and Cetci (spelling?). No doubht within months they will complain about lack of competition and demand a move to EPL. Do they ever raise their own young players or have any decent scouting system.

This will no doubt be fantastic for Scottish football according to Celtic.

It's simple. There has to be rules put in place to maintain competition or the Scottish game will die.

There's only so much people will take before they find something else to do.

Steve20
29-04-2015, 03:11 PM
Doesn't bother me to be honest, they are the team with the most money to spend in Scotland and its obvious they will be able to pay for better players than the others.

I don't think anyone is forcing those teams to accept bids and at least in theory the money is being kept within the domestic game.

I'd be delighted if Hibs were taking the better players from teams below us consistently so can't complain about Celtic doing it.

I agree mostly, but they shouldn't complain about a lack of competition.

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:20 PM
I agree mostly, but they shouldn't complain about a lack of competition.

I'm not sure they do. I've heard on occasion some reference to them not being tested enough and it leading to lack of sharpness when playing better teams but I'm not sure as a club they have complained that other teams aren't competing with them.

Mibbes Aye
29-04-2015, 03:20 PM
Reported in todays Daily Mail that Celtic considering bids for 2 Dund Utd players, Souter and Cetci (spelling?). No doubht within months they will complain about lack of competition and demand a move to EPL. Do they ever raise their own young players or have any decent scouting system.

Not that I'm sympathetic to them but I imagine they face exactly the same situation as we do, in that they invest in their youth structure but even with the best will in the world, only a tiny, tiny number will ever make it as consistent first-team players. If you look at the Double-winning youth side we had, I think Hanlon is the only player still with us and IIRC he didn't feature with them as he had already been promoted to the first-team squad the year before.

I guess that it's harder still at the likes of Celtc, because their benchmark for a consistent first-team player should be someone capable of holding a place in a League-winning side and having the technical ability to compete in European competition. Arguably we've not had anyone like that coming through for ten years, notwithstanding we are a biggish club with a robust set-up.

Pete
29-04-2015, 03:23 PM
Doesn't bother me to be honest, they are the team with the most money to spend in Scotland and its obvious they will be able to pay for better players than the others.

I don't think anyone is forcing those teams to accept bids and at least in theory the money is being kept within the domestic game.

I'd be delighted if Hibs were taking the better players from teams below us consistently so can't complain about Celtic doing it.

Hope is what keeps fans interested and how many young Dundee United fans will be looking at recent events and end up not wanting to bother?

In this modern age where there is do much more to do, people will just end up supporting Celtic or an English team on TV.

The pyramid will collapse from the bottom if we persist with this "trickle down" policy.

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:27 PM
Hope is what keeps fans interested and how many young Dundee United fans will be looking at recent events and end up not wanting to bother?

In this modern age where there is do much more to do, people will just end up supporting Celtic or an English team on TV.

The pyramid will collapse from the bottom if we persist with this "trickle down" policy.

That's not really Celtic's problem, and nothing new about players going to bigger teams.

Would you worry about hope if we took a couple of players from Queen of the South next year, or Sibbald from Falkirk?

I wouldn't.

Michael
29-04-2015, 03:28 PM
I'm not sure they do. I've heard on occasion some reference to them not being tested enough and it leading to lack of sharpness when playing better teams but I'm not sure as a club they have complained that other teams aren't competing with them.

They couldn't have made there feelings towards domestic competition any clearer: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26406994

(Can't do link as on mobile.)

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:29 PM
Not that I'm sympathetic to them but I imagine they face exactly the same situation as we do, in that they invest in their youth structure but even with the best will in the world, only a tiny, tiny number will ever make it as consistent first-team players. If you look at the Double-winning youth side we had, I think Hanlon is the only player still with us and IIRC he didn't feature with them as he had already been promoted to the first-team squad the year before.

I guess that it's harder still at the likes of Celtc, because their benchmark for a consistent first-team player should be someone capable of holding a place in a League-winning side and having the technical ability to compete in European competition. Arguably we've not had anyone like that coming through for ten years, notwithstanding we are a biggish club with a robust set-up.

I think they also have one or two that they did develop to be fair.

James Forrest, Callum McGregor, Charlie Mulgrew, Liam Henderson. Dylan McGeough ain't bad although he will hopefully not stay with them.

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:33 PM
They couldn't have made there feelings towards domestic competition any clearer: http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26406994

(Can't do link as on mobile.)

I'm not sure that article says what you think it does. Ceretainly nothing in the quotes along the lines of Celtic blaming the lack of competition from others in the league. It's more around the gap between Scotland other nations.




Celtic's Peter Lawwell: Lack of competition needs addressed
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell feels the lack of competition in Scotland's top flight needs addressed.

The reigning champions are 21 points clear at the top of the Premiership and are close to a third straight title.

Lawwell was speaking as the club honoured the 20th anniversary of Fergus McCann's takeover.

“Celtic and other Scottish clubs are at a competitive disadvantage in terms of wages and transfer fees


Peter Lawwell

Celtic chief executive
"The perceived lack of competition in Scottish football in the league is an issue that we need to find a solution to," Lawwell told BBC Radio Scotland.

"There are different challenges, different types of challenge but still big challenges for everyone in Scottish football.

"Things have changed over the last 15, 20 years, particularly in media values in the big nations that have gone beyond anyone's reasonable expectations.

"The gap between the big nations and the small nations is huge and we need to find a solution for Scottish football as well as Celtic in order to bridge that gap in some way or other.

"It's put Celtic and other Scottish clubs at a competitive disadvantage in terms of wages and transfer fees."

Canada-based businessman McCann rescued Celtic from the brink of bankruptcy in March 1994 when the club's credit facility was recalled by the bank.

The club's fortunes were subsequently transformed, both on and off the pitch, under McCann's five-year stewardship with Celtic Park rebuilt and the team winning their first league title in a decade in 1998.

Since McCann's departure, Celtic have won eight league titles in 15 years.

And Lawwell believes the club are now "probably financially in the best position we've ever been in".

"We have the best facilities, we have a great management team, we've great executives at the club, the best sports science and one of the best recruitment functions in Europe," he added.

"So, we are in pretty good shape, there's no question about that."

Pete
29-04-2015, 03:36 PM
That's not really Celtic's problem, and nothing new about players going to bigger teams.

Would you worry about hope if we took a couple of players from Queen of the South next year, or Sibbald from Falkirk?

I wouldn't.

Sounds mad but I wouldn't like it. We should let Falkirk and QOS build for the future and attract fans away from the old firm by giving them something to believe in.

Players have indeed always went to bigger teams (usually in Glasgow) but there hasn't always been this many choices when it comes to football and recreation in general.

I don't know precisely what needs to be done but we need to be very careful with our game. Young fans are everything and we need to give them something to believe in...and that goes for all the clubs.

Michael
29-04-2015, 03:38 PM
I'm not sure that article says what you think it does. Ceretainly nothing in the quotes along the lines of Celtic blaming the lack of competition from others in the league. It's more around the gap between Scotland other nations.




Celtic's Peter Lawwell: Lack of competition needs addressed
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell feels the lack of competition in Scotland's top flight needs addressed.

The reigning champions are 21 points clear at the top of the Premiership and are close to a third straight title.

Lawwell was speaking as the club honoured the 20th anniversary of Fergus McCann's takeover.

“Celtic and other Scottish clubs are at a competitive disadvantage in terms of wages and transfer fees


Peter Lawwell

Celtic chief executive
"The perceived lack of competition in Scottish football in the league is an issue that we need to find a solution to," Lawwell told BBC Radio Scotland.

"There are different challenges, different types of challenge but still big challenges for everyone in Scottish football.

"Things have changed over the last 15, 20 years, particularly in media values in the big nations that have gone beyond anyone's reasonable expectations.

"The gap between the big nations and the small nations is huge and we need to find a solution for Scottish football as well as Celtic in order to bridge that gap in some way or other.

"It's put Celtic and other Scottish clubs at a competitive disadvantage in terms of wages and transfer fees."

Canada-based businessman McCann rescued Celtic from the brink of bankruptcy in March 1994 when the club's credit facility was recalled by the bank.

The club's fortunes were subsequently transformed, both on and off the pitch, under McCann's five-year stewardship with Celtic Park rebuilt and the team winning their first league title in a decade in 1998.

Since McCann's departure, Celtic have won eight league titles in 15 years.

And Lawwell believes the club are now "probably financially in the best position we've ever been in".

"We have the best facilities, we have a great management team, we've great executives at the club, the best sports science and one of the best recruitment functions in Europe," he added.

"So, we are in pretty good shape, there's no question about that."

For me he's talking about two separate things there. First, lack of domestic competition. Second, gap between big and small nations.

He says the lack of domeatoc competition needs to be addressed... and what did he do? Buy United's best players.

PeeJay
29-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell feels the lack of competition in Scotland's top flight needs addressed.

The reigning champions are 21 points clear at the top of the Premiership and are close to a third straight title.



Looks to me like the gap is only 8 points? Am I missing something or do Celtc count points differently in Glasgow? :confused:

Andy74
29-04-2015, 03:43 PM
Sounds mad but I wouldn't like it. We should let Falkirk and QOS build for the future and attract fans away from the old firm by giving them something to believe in.

Players have indeed always went to bigger teams (usually in Glasgow) but there hasn't always been this many choices when it comes to football and recreation in general.

I don't know precisely what needs to be done but we need to be very careful with our game. Young fans are everything and we need to give them something to believe in...and that goes for all the clubs.

Well yes, closing down the transfer system is mad. Firstly the players themselves would not work under the circulstances and woulld expect to be able to make a living where they can and secondly you move the problem to kids football and how players are recruited if you can only play players that you raised yourself.

Interesting you think there are choices of things to do - I support Hibs beacuse they are Hibs, most football fans are simliar and most also have a reasonable expectation of where their club sits in the scheme of things.

I'm not sure forcing everyone to watch only the best of what the teams can produce themselves is any more of a sell to encourage people in. Quite frankly I'd rather watch Allan and Malonga just now ahead of Stanton and Handling for example.

Bishop Hibee
29-04-2015, 03:48 PM
I remember the days we could "raid" Dundee Utd. Darren Jackson and Mikey O'Neill were great signings😀 Beadie and Kirkwood not so 😕

cabbageandribs1875
29-04-2015, 03:49 PM
Looks to me like the gap is only 8 points? Am I missing something or do Celtc count points differently in Glasgow? :confused:



the quoted article is from the 2nd March

Pete
29-04-2015, 04:11 PM
Well yes, closing down the transfer system is mad. Firstly the players themselves would not work under the circulstances and woulld expect to be able to make a living where they can and secondly you move the problem to kids football and how players are recruited if you can only play players that you raised yourself.

Interesting you think there are choices of things to do - I support Hibs beacuse they are Hibs, most football fans are simliar and most also have a reasonable expectation of where their club sits in the scheme of things.

I'm not sure forcing everyone to watch only the best of what the teams can produce themselves is any more of a sell to encourage people in. Quite frankly I'd rather watch Allan and Malonga just now ahead of Stanton and Handling for example.

I'm not advocating the closure of the transfer system. Restriction on transfer activity between clubs in the same country could be looked at and made workable. Selling players to teams from another country is slightly more palatable than selling to your rivals and the situation where top players constantly head from one certain club to another isn't healthy.

I move the "problem" to youth football because that's ultimately where the answer is. I would rather watch Handling and Stanton lift the league title against other home grown teams than watch Allen and Malonga struggle to make the top six while knowing we have no chance of the title.

And it's interesting that you use yourself as an example when it comes to supporting the club and fans acceptance. What age are you and what footballing choices did you have during your formative years? I bet the only live football you could watch was going to a game or the odd game on TV. Competition and hope is the only thing that will keep kids coming to Scottish games and give them a bond that will keep them coming back.

I know we are all operating independently and have our own aims as clubs but I think we have to do something radical. It won't happen though as its all about short-term self preservation when it comes to the big boys, ourselves included.

PeeJay
29-04-2015, 04:13 PM
the quoted article is from the 2nd March

OK ... alles klar!!

Big_Franck
29-04-2015, 04:19 PM
I agree with Andy here. It's nothing new and happens in leagues the world over. Also, as Andy says if we were to do the same to falkirk/qos/livi etc. we'd not be complaining.

I hope for their sake united have them on decent contracts so they'll get decent fees. They can then reinvest some of it to keep the league competitive(ish).

Thecat23
29-04-2015, 04:23 PM
Russian billionaire takes over Hibs and raids Celtic 😁 Imagine the outcry!!!

3pm
29-04-2015, 04:23 PM
Russian billionaire takes over Hibs and raids Celtic 😁 Imagine the outcry!!!

Only when you start posting their salaries!!! :o)

Andy74
29-04-2015, 04:25 PM
I'm not advocating the closure of the transfer system. Restriction on transfer activity between clubs in the same country could be looked at and made workable. Selling players to teams from another country is slightly more palatable than selling to your rivals and the situation where top players constantly head from one certain club to another isn't healthy.

I move the "problem" to youth football because that's ultimately where the answer is. I would rather watch Handling and Stanton lift the league title against other home grown teams than watch Allen and Malonga struggle to make the top six while knowing we have no chance of the title.And it's interesting that you use yourself as an example when it comes to supporting the club and fans acceptance. What age are you and what footballing choices did you have during your formative years? I bet the only live football you could watch was going to a game or the odd game on TV. Competition and hope is the only thing that will keep kids coming to Scottish games and give them a bond that will keep them coming back.

I know we are all operating independently and have our own aims as clubs but I think we have to do something radical. It won't happen though as its all about short-term self preservation when it comes to the big boys, ourselves included.

The fact that the bit in bold won't happen is the problem.

I'm not getting why you think getting in the top six with players we can bring in like Allan and Malonga is a struggle whilst you have us winning a home grown league with Handling and Stanton.

Do you not mean you would rather watch home grown players struggle than you would see plyers we have brought in win? If not then you are mixing up your aguments are you not?

We would be a less competitive and less entertaining prospect doing what you want to do - we would become more of a backwater and even more people would go looking to see decent players somewhere else.

Interestingly, Dundee Utd wouldn't have had half the players they have sold or are trying to sell in the first place if they couldn't have brought them in in the first place. Also their response was to buy Kilmarnock's best prospect was it not - and the guy from Arbroath was it that done well against us. That's the way it works.

Mibbes Aye
29-04-2015, 04:30 PM
I'm not advocating the closure of the transfer system. Restriction on transfer activity between clubs in the same country could be looked at and made workable. Selling players to teams from another country is slightly more palatable than selling to your rivals and the situation where top players constantly head from one certain club to another isn't healthy.

I move the "problem" to youth football because that's ultimately where the answer is. I would rather watch Handling and Stanton lift the league title against other home grown teams than watch Allen and Malonga struggle to make the top six while knowing we have no chance of the title.

And it's interesting that you use yourself as an example when it comes to supporting the club and fans acceptance. What age are you and what footballing choices did you have during your formative years? I bet the only live football you could watch was going to a game or the odd game on TV. Competition and hope is the only thing that will keep kids coming to Scottish games and give them a bond that will keep them coming back.

I know we are all operating independently and have our own aims as clubs but I think we have to do something radical. It won't happen though as its all about short-term self preservation when it comes to the big boys, ourselves included.

I think restriction on transfer activity within Scotland is tricky because I suspect EU law would forbid it. Any measures would have to be adopted universally across member states I suspect.

I think you're right to focus on youth football as both the problem and the solution. While far from perfect I think there's been significant progress at child and youth levels in how we develop youngsters. It's far from perfect but it's better than it was. I genuinely think that the national team will have progressively better options for selection, in terms of technical ability, in ten years time and if we keep it up in fifteen and twenty years time, relative to where we are now.

Pete
29-04-2015, 04:33 PM
I agree with Andy here. It's nothing new and happens in leagues the world over. Also, as Andy says if we were to do the same to falkirk/qos/livi etc. we'd not be complaining.

I hope for their sake united have them on decent contracts so they'll get decent fees. They can then reinvest some of it to keep the league competitive(ish).

It does indeed happen all over the world but leagues all over the world are boring with only certain teams winning them. Leagues all over the world are also losing fans to the same big right or ten champions league teams.

"Competitive(ish)" isn't going to cut it for too much longer as far as we're concerned. Two teams have shared our championship for the last 30 years or something and we need change!

Pete
29-04-2015, 04:59 PM
The fact that the bit in bold won't happen is the problem.

I'm not getting why you think getting in the top six with players we can bring in like Allan and Malonga is a struggle whilst you have us winning a home grown league with Handling and Stanton.

Do you not mean you would rather watch home grown players struggle than you would see plyers we have brought in win? If not then you are mixing up your aguments are you not?

We would be a less competitive and less entertaining prospect doing what you want to do - we would become more of a backwater and even more people would go looking to see decent players somewhere else.

Interestingly, Dundee Utd wouldn't have had half the players they have sold or are trying to sell in the first place if they couldn't have brought them in in the first place. Also their response was to buy Kilmarnock's best prospect was it not - and the guy from Arbroath was it that done well against us. That's the way it works.

I'm not sure if you're having a pop at our youth system or not with your first part and if you are you are missing my point and doing our youngsters a disservice. I'm staggered that you say that doing what I suggest would make it less entertaining and competitive. How the hell can the game in this country be any less competitive than it is now??

And perhaps instead of going to United, these players would stay at clubs like Arbroath for a while, giving them something to build on and a little hope.

"That's the way it works". It is indeed but it isn't beyond the wit of man to change things if it's for the greater good.

J-C
29-04-2015, 05:06 PM
Ex Celtic player now Dundee U manager who also gets a cut of any player sales shocker.

Pete
29-04-2015, 05:10 PM
I think restriction on transfer activity within Scotland is tricky because I suspect EU law would forbid it. Any measures would have to be adopted universally across member states I suspect.

I think you're right to focus on youth football as both the problem and the solution. While far from perfect I think there's been significant progress at child and youth levels in how we develop youngsters. It's far from perfect but it's better than it was. I genuinely think that the national team will have progressively better options for selection, in terms of technical ability, in ten years time and if we keep it up in fifteen and twenty years time, relative to where we are now.

Time will tell if the changes we made have an effect but I agree that kids coaching is a lot better than it was. In my day we played with full size goals, mitre mouldmasters and we were told to hoof it up the park.

It will be depressing if the future competitiveness of our league was dependant on producing enough youth talent to go around after the Glasgow clubs have had their share.

vote UKIP anybody? :greengrin

heidtheba
29-04-2015, 05:20 PM
I suppose, IMHO, the thing is, if they play the young players they've raided from other clubs, I don't really have an issue. That's the way of the World and one of those things most teams expect. Its the 'Riordan situation' as I'd call it where they buy a player from a threatening team and simply don't play him. That's where I hate the Old Firm (and surely the Rangers too if they get financially strong again one day, don't underestimate that). Then they are wasting a player. That irks.

--------
29-04-2015, 05:29 PM
I'm not sure if you're having a pop at our youth system or not with your first part and if you are you are missing my point and doing our youngsters a disservice. I'm staggered that you say that doing what I suggest would make it less entertaining and competitive. How the hell can the game in this country be any less competitive than it is now??

And perhaps instead of going to United, these players would stay at clubs like Arbroath for a while, giving them something to build on and a little hope.

"That's the way it works". It is indeed but it isn't beyond the wit of man to change things if it's for the greater good.


The OF have always seen the Scottish League as cannon-fodder. We only exist to go along to Parkhead or Ibrox to be royally cuffed; and they only come to ER to win (and win handsomely is their expectation).

they have by far the biggest fan base - in part at least generated by the sectarian ethos of both clubs); League rules allow them the lion's share of all sponsor money coming into the game; their financial clout allows them to plunder the other teams of their best players; and if all else fails, the match officials will step up to the plate and help out with a wee penalty here, a red card there, and an offside goal allowed if all else fails.

This is how it's been for all the years I've watched the game, and even I've become sick of it. The game in Scotland is run by airbags like Regan and Doncaster; it stinks of favoritism and corruption, and it'll go on like that as long as we just bend over, grasp our ankles, and continue to think of Glasgow as the hub of the football universe while the Gruesome Twosome hand us out another royal screwing.

The saddest thing of all is that the clubs themselves, in whose interest radical change would clearly be, and who have the power (if they acted together) to bring about that change, seem perfectly happy to be the ducks in the OF's shooting gallery.

snooky
29-04-2015, 05:34 PM
Doesn't bother me to be honest, they are the team with the most money to spend in Scotland and its obvious they will be able to pay for better players than the others.

I don't think anyone is forcing those teams to accept bids and at least in theory the money is being kept within the domestic game.

I'd be delighted if Hibs were taking the better players from teams below us consistently so can't complain about Celtic doing it.

Well, it bothers me Andy, however I take your point.
That's fine, but tell those bunch of moaning minnies to STFU when they start complaining that there's no competition in the SPL. :brickwall
Them and their defunct buddies are/were just a pair of hoovers.

ScottB
29-04-2015, 05:38 PM
To be fair, nobody is holding a gun to United's head to accept Celtic's bids, nor to the players heads to choose a move there over trying their luck down south.

The bad thing, for me, is Scottish talent stagnating up here instead of seeking to test themselves at higher levels.

Nando™
29-04-2015, 05:39 PM
The OF have always seen the Scottish League as cannon-fodder. We only exist to go along to Parkhead or Ibrox to be royally cuffed; and they only come to ER to win (and win handsomely is their expectation).

they have by far the biggest fan base - in part at least generated by the sectarian ethos of both clubs); League rules allow them the lion's share of all sponsor money coming into the game; their financial clout allows them to plunder the other teams of their best players; and if all else fails, the match officials will step up to the plate and help out with a wee penalty here, a red card there, and an offside goal allowed if all else fails.

This is how it's been for all the years I've watched the game, and even I've become sick of it. The game in Scotland is run by airbags like Regan and Doncaster; it stinks of favoritism and corruption, and it'll go on like that as long as we just bend over, grasp our ankles, and continue to think of Glasgow as the hub of the football universe while the Gruesome Twosome hand us out another royal screwing.

The saddest thing of all is that the clubs themselves, in whose interest radical change would clearly be, and who have the power (if they acted together) to bring about that change, seem perfectly happy to be the ducks in the OF's shooting gallery.

Didn't we almost get that ridiculous 11-1 rule changed, but for the short-sighted, moronic, f***wittery of Aberdeen?

--------
29-04-2015, 05:56 PM
Didn't we almost get that ridiculous 11-1 rule changed, but for the short-sighted, moronic, f***wittery of Aberdeen?


Something like. Like turkeys voting for Christmas, the Scottish League clubs. :rolleyes:

Andy74
29-04-2015, 06:03 PM
I'm not sure if you're having a pop at our youth system or not with your first part and if you are you are missing my point and doing our youngsters a disservice. I'm staggered that you say that doing what I suggest would make it less entertaining and competitive. How the hell can the game in this country be any less competitive than it is now??

And perhaps instead of going to United, these players would stay at clubs like Arbroath for a while, giving them something to build on and a little hope.

"That's the way it works". It is indeed but it isn't beyond the wit of man to change things if it's for the greater good.

I'm not having a pop as such but who have we produced worth watching recently?

Even in good years you maybe get one or two players capable of stepping up.

What you want to do is basically ensure we are stuck with just who we manage to produce and they can't move anywhere and we can't bring anyone in?

I'd suggest you are bonkers if you don't think that it would have an impact on quality and entertainment and crowds. Our product would be very poor indeed if we were not able to bring in players from wherever we can.

Keeping players at lower levels who have the ability to play at a higher one is nonsensical for their development as well. It would have been better all round if Andy Webster was still ploughing away with Arbroath with the best they have to muster to play with him? Andrew Robertson would be making Queens Park more competitive so good lad, keep it going.

Let's not even get on to a recent Hibs history that might have been complete with the likes of Michael Renwick and Graeme Donald gracing us for years on end instead of Jackson, O'Neill and dare I say Sauzee and Latapy.

BoomtownHibees
29-04-2015, 06:03 PM
Didn't we almost get that ridiculous 11-1 rule changed, but for the short-sighted, moronic, f***wittery of Aberdeen?

Remember at the time Aberdeen would have visions of being the 2nd best team in the country for a number of years so there was no way they would vote for prize money to be distributed fairer and other similar changes

CockneyRebel
29-04-2015, 06:23 PM
The OF have always seen the Scottish League as cannon-fodder. We only exist to go along to Parkhead or Ibrox to be royally cuffed; and they only come to ER to win (and win handsomely is their expectation).

they have by far the biggest fan base - in part at least generated by the sectarian ethos of both clubs); League rules allow them the lion's share of all sponsor money coming into the game; their financial clout allows them to plunder the other teams of their best players; and if all else fails, the match officials will step up to the plate and help out with a wee penalty here, a red card there, and an offside goal allowed if all else fails.

This is how it's been for all the years I've watched the game, and even I've become sick of it. The game in Scotland is run by airbags like Regan and Doncaster; it stinks of favoritism and corruption, and it'll go on like that as long as we just bend over, grasp our ankles, and continue to think of Glasgow as the hub of the football universe while the Gruesome Twosome hand us out another royal screwing.

The saddest thing of all is that the clubs themselves, in whose interest radical change would clearly be, and who have the power (if they acted together) to bring about that change, seem perfectly happy to be the ducks in the OF's shooting gallery.

PatHead
29-04-2015, 10:45 PM
Dundee Utd have "raided" Queens Park and Partick for players. They made a killing on Andrew Robertson after one year. Don't have sympathy, law of jungle applies.

matty_f
29-04-2015, 11:25 PM
I don't think Celtc buying players from Scottish clubs us an issue in principle, so long as they pay the going rate.

Ideally they'd be buying from clubs in a better financial state than most Scottish clubs are currently in, so the selling club would be able to re-invest that money in their squad.

What you would ideally like to see then is that money finding its way through Scottish football and as a result seeing the standards rise.

For example, Celtc buy player A from Hibs for £2m. Hibs buy player B from Raith for £0.5m, Raith buy player C from Brechin for £250k etc - that would be healthy for the game, IMHO. Nobody is restricted in where they can play and clubs have an incentive to produce good players.

Unfortunately most clubs are in debt so a team like Dundee United would cash in on good players but are not in a position to re-invest the cash. Their fans would be me comfortable losing a GMS or Armstrong if they were replaced with good players.

Andy74
29-04-2015, 11:31 PM
I don't think Celtc buying players from Scottish clubs us an issue in principle, so long as they pay the going rate.

Ideally they'd be buying from clubs in a better financial state than most Scottish clubs are currently in, so the selling club would be able to re-invest that money in their squad.

What you would ideally like to see then is that money finding its way through Scottish football and as a result seeing the standards rise.

For example, Celtc buy player A from Hibs for £2m. Hibs buy player B from Raith for £0.5m, Raith buy player C from Brechin for £250k etc - that would be healthy for the game, IMHO. Nobody is restricted in where they can play and clubs have an incentive to produce good players.

Unfortunately most clubs are in debt so a team like Dundee United would cash in on good players but are not in a position to re-invest the cash. Their fans would be me comfortable losing a GMS or Armstrong if they were replaced with good players.

It is working to some extent as some of the cash immediately went from Dundee Utd to Kilmarnock and Arbroath for two of their young players. Longer term they have more freedom in their finances now to invest further in players.

Let's not forget this was kicked off by Dundee Utd being able to bring players like GMS and Robertson in from smaller teams in the first place.

matty_f
29-04-2015, 11:37 PM
It is working to some extent as some of the cash immediately went from Dundee Utd to Kilmarnock and Arbroath for two of their young players. Longer term they have more freedom in their finances now to invest further in players.

Let's not forget this was kicked off by Dundee Utd being able to bring players like GMS and Robertson in from smaller teams in the first place.
Fair point, I've not really followed what's happened with the top flight clubs so didn't realise United had signed a couple of players.

givescotlandfreedom
30-04-2015, 03:56 AM
I'm not sure they do. I've heard on occasion some reference to them not being tested enough and it leading to lack of sharpness when playing better teams but I'm not sure as a club they have complained that other teams aren't competing with them.

I seem to recall Delia moaning about it a couple of months before signing two players from Dundee United.

Lago
30-04-2015, 12:01 PM
And today we have Jose Morineo saying Scottish football is a one club league. To be fair he also said the same of German football, however I would prefer to watch a league like Germany's as opposed to Scotlands

snooky
30-04-2015, 12:13 PM
The OF have always seen the Scottish League as cannon-fodder. We only exist to go along to Parkhead or Ibrox to be royally cuffed; and they only come to ER to win (and win handsomely is their expectation).

they have by far the biggest fan base - in part at least generated by the sectarian ethos of both clubs); League rules allow them the lion's share of all sponsor money coming into the game; their financial clout allows them to plunder the other teams of their best players; and if all else fails, the match officials will step up to the plate and help out with a wee penalty here, a red card there, and an offside goal allowed if all else fails.

This is how it's been for all the years I've watched the game, and even I've become sick of it. The game in Scotland is run by airbags like Regan and Doncaster; it stinks of favoritism and corruption, and it'll go on like that as long as we just bend over, grasp our ankles, and continue to think of Glasgow as the hub of the football universe while the Gruesome Twosome hand us out another royal screwing.

The saddest thing of all is that the clubs themselves, in whose interest radical change would clearly be, and who have the power (if they acted together) to bring about that change, seem perfectly happy to be the ducks in the OF's shooting gallery.

Spot on, GH - every word.

As a tail piece ...
How many time have the OF bought a player, not to strengthen their own team but solely to weaken any possible opposition? The said players are then left in to languish in the reserves.

AndyM_1875
30-04-2015, 12:50 PM
Didn't we almost get that ridiculous 11-1 rule changed, but for the short-sighted, moronic, f***wittery of Aberdeen?

We did. Aberdeen cuddled up to the soapdodgers.

However they'll be booted into touch in the time it takes for Rangers to come into the top flight in a month or a year's time and then the "special relationship" between the toxic twins will be as it ever was no doubt.

TheFamous1875
30-04-2015, 01:01 PM
If we hadn't sold all of our top players in such a small amount of time and never replaced them, I think we'd feel differently about this.

Dundee Utd lost John Daly and replaced him with Nadir Ciftći, Barry Douglas with Andrew Robertson whose now been replaced by Paul Dixon, Gavin Gunning with Fojut, Ryan Gauld with Charlie Telfer. It's not like-for-like, but it seems like it could work in the long run. Gethussi for Whittaker? O'Brien for Brown? Gies a brek.

Leithenhibby
30-04-2015, 01:02 PM
Dundee Utd have "raided" Queens Park and Partick for players. They made a killing on Andrew Robertson after one year. Don't have sympathy, law of jungle applies.

I agree 100% :agree:

number9dream
30-04-2015, 01:02 PM
OK ... alles klar!!

2 March 2014 - for those Lawwell quotes

CallumLaidlaw
30-04-2015, 02:28 PM
And today we have Jose Morineo saying Scottish football is a one club league. To be fair he also said the same of German football, however I would prefer to watch a league like Germany's as opposed to Scotlands

Mourinho is daft saying that about German football. There has been 5 different Bundesliga winners in the last 12 seasons. There have only been 4 different EPL winners in the last 19 seasons, and we've seen the likes of Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Munchengladbach all tend to do well in Europe.

JimBHibees
30-04-2015, 02:46 PM
Can United really complain when they and no-one else decided that selling Stuart Armstong at the same time as GMS was a good idea?

They had sold Gauld and Robertson approx 6 months before so dont really understand their need to sell Armstrong who was still on a reasonable size contract. Idiotic management IMO.

easty
30-04-2015, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE=gloryhunter;4361139]

Spot on, GH - every word.

As a tail piece ...
How many time have the OF bought a player, not to strengthen their own team but solely to weaken any possible opposition? The said players are then left in to languish in the reserves.

That's not why they do it, in my opinion anyway. They sign players who've done well in the SPL, assuming they'll be the same for them. But like us signing Tim bloody Clancey. Looked the part at Motherwell, looked the prat at Hibs. We signed him to better us, not weaken Motherwell.

Lago
30-04-2015, 06:36 PM
:top marks
Mourinho is daft saying that about German football. There has been 5 different Bundesliga winners in the last 12 seasons. There have only been 4 different EPL winners in the last 19 seasons, and we've seen the likes of Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Munchengladbach all tend to do well in Europe.

snooky
30-04-2015, 06:43 PM
[QUOTE=snooky;4361469]

That's not why they do it, in my opinion anyway. They sign players who've done well in the SPL, assuming they'll be the same for them. But like us signing Tim bloody Clancey. Looked the part at Motherwell, looked the prat at Hibs. We signed him to better us, not weaken Motherwell.

We needed a RB. Celtc have signed players even though they were already well covered in the players' field positions.

OF = Gluttons
Rest = Eating to survive

Brooster
30-04-2015, 07:10 PM
These things happen but for Delia to say that DU should be is honoured is arrogance of the highest order. Doesnt surprise me mind you, him and Collins are arrogant tw4ts.

JimBHibees
01-05-2015, 10:55 AM
These things happen but for Delia to say that DU should be is honoured is arrogance of the highest order. Doesnt surprise me mind you, him and Collins are arrogant tw4ts.

Agree entirely absolutely no need to say that at all.