View Full Version : Scottish football without the old firm
Geo_1875
16-04-2015, 11:37 AM
Would it be better?
Without a doubt.
Ozyhibby
16-04-2015, 11:39 AM
It would die in afraid. Your grandkids would support Celtic or Rangers as one of only two scottish teams in the BIG league.
If they go, we all have to go.
They have a hold over every club in Scotland to the point where it's turning Scottish football into panto.
Spfl and sky will get Rangers up at any cost.
R'Albin
16-04-2015, 11:43 AM
It would die in afraid. Your grandkids would support Celtic or Rangers as one of only two scottish teams in the BIG league.
If they go, we all have to go.
Nonsense.
Edit - unless I've missed the deliberate irony somewhere.
Biggie
16-04-2015, 11:46 AM
Scottish football is dying WITH the old firm......
Jonny1875
16-04-2015, 11:47 AM
Think the game would suffer in the short-term in terms of money and finance from TV etc. However in the long-term if the league is competitive (something which it clearly lacks) and attendances rise etc then TV companies would be interested, just look at how well BT Sport is covering Scottish football this season.:agree:
Geo_1875
16-04-2015, 11:47 AM
It would die in afraid. Your grandkids would support Celtic or Rangers as one of only two scottish teams in the BIG league.
If they go, we all have to go.
I don't think that would happen.
Most lower division English clubs have a loyal support without hope of reaching "the biggest bestest league in the world". True, there are many kids wandering around in a ManU, ManC, Chelsea top but 99% of them will never ever see them play live unless their local team draw them in the cup.
The 10 teams left who would have a chance of winning the league or a cup would see their core support increase over time. The rest would stay the same.
The only difference would be the savings on policing the marauding hordes that accompany every visit from the ugly sisters.
marinello59
16-04-2015, 11:52 AM
Would it be better?
No.
We could never have Scottish Champions again as the best two teams would not be playing in the league. And you certainly don't improve standards by getting rid of the two teams most capable of attracting talented players to our league.
Diclonius
16-04-2015, 12:31 PM
Why remove Celtic and Rangers? Just introduce a wage cap and force a level playing field. The OF crowds would drain when they realise the hatred isn't quite as fun without the success.
Bishop Hibee
16-04-2015, 12:36 PM
I'm convinced there will be an NFL style Euro League in the future. This will probably include Celtc and possibly Newco. Scottish football will survive fine without them and be more competitive.
Celtic are now a selling club to England, just like we are to them and the gap between us has shortened when you see how close Aberdeen and ICT are with just a few games left to play.
The League would be a far more exciting one with 4-5 clubs all vying for the title instead of either of the 2 ugly sisters. We'd lose our spot in the champons league but the reality is we shouldn't be there even now with Celtic as our champs.
Why remove Celtic and Rangers? Just introduce a wage cap and force a level playing field. The OF crowds would drain when they realise the hatred isn't quite as fun without the success.
...or sharing gate money.
Too much of a level playing field would be created though. Not good for the big two = forget it.
Keith_M
16-04-2015, 12:50 PM
No.
We could never have Scottish Champions again as the best two teams would not be playing in the league. And you certainly don't improve standards by getting rid of the two teams most capable of attracting talented players to our league.
:hmmm:
So who are the current Welsh Champions?
:wink:
Iggy Pope
16-04-2015, 12:57 PM
Not for me.
I don't want any club of any size leaving Scottish Football.
DarlingtonHibee
16-04-2015, 01:04 PM
Apart from the epl not wanting them, it is a complete non starter for the Police - that from a chief constable.
Keith_M
16-04-2015, 01:07 PM
I think we'd be much better off if Celtc and The Rangers suddenly no longer existed but the sad fact of the matter is that they do, and the majority of Football Fans in Scotland support one or the other.
I can't see them moving anywhere any time soon but it still won't stop them constantly telling everybody how they're too good for Scottish Football and should be playing in England.
Spike Mandela
16-04-2015, 01:11 PM
Time for radical change.
I am now firmly of the belief that the best way forward for Scottish footbal clubs is a merger to a British League.
No matter your view on the indyref it is patently ridiculous for one country to have 4 separate football associations/leagues.
:tin hat:
Not for me.
I don't want any club of any size leaving Scottish Football.
Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc...should all leave.
We should try for entry into the English system or get people with ideas to run a new Scottish league.
The big Glasgow two and all their baggage can do what they like.
Hibby Bairn
16-04-2015, 01:31 PM
Without a doubt.
Surely there must be some kind of doubt? Pretty big change, no?
Ozyhibby
16-04-2015, 01:40 PM
Why remove Celtic and Rangers? Just introduce a wage cap and force a level playing field. The OF crowds would drain when they realise the hatred isn't quite as fun without the success.
That's what we really need. It amazes me that more people don't see it.
Geo_1875
16-04-2015, 01:45 PM
Surely there must be some kind of doubt? Pretty big change, no?
I have no doubt. A more competitive league and none of their baggage. What's not to like?
Keith_M
16-04-2015, 01:45 PM
That's what we really need. It amazes me that more people don't see it.
Most likely because it would be unenforceable. I'd imagine the first port of call for the Players and Agents would be their Lawyers.
Geo_1875
16-04-2015, 01:49 PM
Most likely because it would be unenforceable. I'd imagine the first port of call for the Players and Agents would be their Lawyers.
It would upset the "big teams" who are happy to recycle other peoples money to stay at the trough. If there was a cap put in place and enforced the players wouldn't have any legal recourse.
Ozyhibby
16-04-2015, 01:50 PM
Most likely because it would be unenforceable. I'd imagine the first port of call for the Players and Agents would be their Lawyers.
It works in leagues all over the world and is totally enforceable. It works in Rugby league in the UK as well.
Bostonhibby
16-04-2015, 01:54 PM
I don't think there has ever been a better time than now for all the other clubs to get together and demand a better share of revenue and leverage as much extra rights as they can to make the SPFL more democratic.
I say this because its clear the EPL aint interested in these toxic brands so if the rest seriously lined up a breakaway what would the uglies do? Join the League of Ireland? They could play each other every week for various made up trophies but the TV companies would soon get sick of it. Nae one wants them except, ironically, Scottish football. I think something with more integrity could emerge without the uglies, but is anyone brave enough to truly take the lead and stand up to the establishment? A Budge Dempster combination?:wink:
Dave-O
16-04-2015, 02:16 PM
I don't think there has ever been a better time than now for all the other clubs to get together and demand a better share of revenue and leverage as much extra rights as they can to make the SPFL more democratic.
I say this because its clear the EPL aint interested in these toxic brands so if the rest seriously lined up a breakaway what would the uglies do? Join the League of Ireland? They could play each other every week for various made up trophies but the TV companies would soon get sick of it. Nae one wants them except, ironically, Scottish football. I think something with more integrity could emerge without the uglies, but is anyone brave enough to truly take the lead and stand up to the establishment? A Dempster Budge combination?:wink:
Fixed that for you. :wink:
Bostonhibby
16-04-2015, 02:21 PM
Fixed that for you. :wink:
Indeed! What was I thinking[emoji106]
marinello59
16-04-2015, 02:51 PM
:hmmm:
So who are the current Welsh Champions?
:wink:
I really have no idea. It's not Swansea or Cardiff who are the two strongest teams in Wales as they play their fitba elsewhere so it's a meaningless title . As the Scottish title would be without the two strongest teams in the league.
Canon Hannan
16-04-2015, 03:20 PM
I have no doubt. A more competitive league and none of their baggage. What's not to like?
The Old Firm are no more as SEVCO are a new club. I agree the league would be very competitive with Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts benefitting. Stadiums would fill if we dropped the price and the teams all had the chance of Cup and League trophies. The 3 big clubs mentioned would fill their stadiums while other clubs could enjoy solid away supports from the big 3. Every season would provide the opportunity of a potential new league champion. We have not had this potential at Hibs since the 50s.
Hibs07p
16-04-2015, 04:24 PM
I think we'd be much better off if Celtc and The Rangers suddenly no longer existed but the sad fact of the matter is that they do, and the majority of Football Fans in Scotland support one or the other.
I can't see them moving anywhere any time soon but it still won't stop them constantly telling everybody how they're too good for Scottish Football and should be playing in England.
I agree totally, and if The Sevco are struggling to climb through the Scottish leagues with extreme bias in their favour, what chance would they have trying to climb up 6 or 7 English leagues where they would receive no favours and no-one would actually give a flying one about them. :greengrin
GGTTH
NAE NOOKIE
16-04-2015, 04:57 PM
Its never going to happen. The OF will remain with their faces pressed up against the EPL shop window forever, Manchester and the fact that even now the fans of the club formerly known as Rangers cant lay off the sectarian crap will ensure that. The ( they would call it ) political element in the Celtic support do nothing to make the club attractive to the EPL either. This is the joke we can all laugh at .... The fans of both clubs would kill to see them in English football and yet it is they themselves who will prevent it from ever happening.
But what I just don't get is the willingness of the clubs in Scotland to allow the tail to wag the dog. The OF may have the fans, and Celtic at least may have the money, but what is for sure is that they have nowhere to go ..... Its oor baw and if they want to play they should be told in no uncertain terms that they will play by our rules.
Scottish football would be better without the old firm but only if they were wound up, not by moving them to the EPL which would only lose the remaining clubs even more supporters as time went on.
cleanyman
16-04-2015, 04:59 PM
No Rangers in the top league...no sponsor.
Would be exactly the same if both went except we wouldn't have a tv deal.
Outwith Scotland there is pretty much zero interest in our game right now.
superfurryhibby
16-04-2015, 05:06 PM
I really have no idea. It's not Swansea or Cardiff who are the two strongest teams in Wales as they play their fitba elsewhere so it's a meaningless title . As the Scottish title would be without the two strongest teams in the league.
Is our title meaningful. It's one horse race at the moment, which provides a guaranteed outcome. 30 years since one or other of the OF won the title, surely no other league can be so uncompetitive?
The game here is way bigger and not comparable to Wales or Ireland, even taking away the OF. I would love them to go. Unfortunately, it will never happen.
Pretty Boy
16-04-2015, 05:07 PM
No Rangers in the top league...no sponsor.
Would be exactly the same if both went except we wouldn't have a tv deal.
Outwith Scotland there is pretty much zero interest in our game right now.
So it wouldn't really be all that much worse?
Hibs lost money on the TV deal a couple of years back because of reducee attendances when we were on. No sponsor now, no sponsor without them, little interest with them, little interest without.
The only way there will be change in Scottish football is if the other clubs make it clear to Rangers and Celtic that without us there is no 'product'. Their game against each other is only meaningful in the wider picture of a league and cup comperition, without the other 42 teams they don't have that. England doesn't want them and the game up here is in decline with or without them. Time for the other clubs to collectively resign from the league and put a gun to those clubs and the blazers heads for meaningful change. If we could all stand firm they would have to compromise as without us they's have nowhere to go.
hibs0666
16-04-2015, 05:19 PM
We need to become part of a British league pyramid.
joe breezy
16-04-2015, 05:27 PM
I would have loved Hibs to become part of a UK wide set up but that opportunity, if there ever was one, bolted many years ago.
Now the best we can do is to have as many big clubs as possible. We dislike Rangers and Celtic so much due to their archaic sectarianism as much as anything else.
I wonder if people in Portugal say would Portuguese football be better without Porto and Sporting Lison?
LancsHibs
16-04-2015, 05:32 PM
We need to become part of a British league pyramid.
Agree, including clubs from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland
cleanyman
16-04-2015, 05:35 PM
Agree, including clubs from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland
NI yes.
Republic? Not for me.
Michael
16-04-2015, 05:55 PM
A wage cap would do me. If every club in the SPFL pushed for it (other than ugly sisters) then they'd have to do it I reckon. Celtic and Rangers will never get into the English league.
superfurryhibby
16-04-2015, 06:19 PM
I would have loved Hibs to become part of a UK wide set up but that opportunity, if there ever was one, bolted many years ago.
Now the best we can do is to have as many big clubs as possible. We dislike Rangers and Celtic so much due to their archaic sectarianism as much as anything else.
I wonder if people in Portugal say would Portuguese football be better without Porto and Sporting Lison?
Benfica fans might like it?:wink:
Pretty Boy
16-04-2015, 08:07 PM
A wage cap would do me. If every club in the SPFL pushed for it (other than ugly sisters) then they'd have to do it I reckon. Celtic and Rangers will never get into the English league.
Would a wage cap not just worsen the talent drain to England that already exists?
Young lad can earn say £4K max a week in Scotland, and no one outwith Celtic and Rangers could afford that anyway, or £8K a week going to West Brom or Crystal Palace with unlimited potential earnings.
Seems a no brainer to me.
A wage cap only works if absolutely everyone signs up for it, which is never going to happen. If there was an attempt to impose it the super rich would just break away and form their own association, if that meant their players being barred from international football etc they'd likely see that as an added bonus.
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