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matty_f
13-04-2015, 07:08 AM
In his pre-match interview, Neilson said he'd set his team up the same as Hibs so that it would be a case of a straight man v man (or or player versus their player). Anyone know exactly how long he stuck with that approach?

I think Neilson just tried to copy what worked for the Rangers and that was the extent of his tactical calculations.

The_Sauz
13-04-2015, 07:20 AM
In his pre-match interview, Neilson said he'd set his team up the same as Hibs so that it would be a case of a straight man v man (or or player versus their player). Anyone know exactly how long he stuck with that approach?

I think Neilson just tried to copy what worked for the Rangers and that was the extent of his tactical calculations.

37 mins when McTattie went off, he then put Paterson at RB and Eckersley went to LB with Nicholson (sub) in midfield for a 442 formation :agree:

It did work for him, as he went from a FAIL+ to just a FAIL!! :greengrin

bingo70
13-04-2015, 07:47 AM
In his pre-match interview, Neilson said he'd set his team up the same as Hibs so that it would be a case of a straight man v man (or or player versus their player). Anyone know exactly how long he stuck with that approach?

I think Neilson just tried to copy what worked for the Rangers and that was the extent of his tactical calculations.

I think you're giving Neilson too much credit. He'll set hearts up to play the way he's told to.

matty_f
13-04-2015, 07:52 AM
I think you're giving Neilson too much credit. He'll set hearts up to play the way he's told to.

You make a good point!

MSK
13-04-2015, 07:55 AM
i think you're giving neilson too much credit. He'll set hearts up to play the way he's told to.hooooooooffffffff

Danderhall Hibs
13-04-2015, 07:56 AM
Neilson's struggled in the big games this season; he's been fortunate to get away with 2 draws in the derby and a last minute winner at Ibrox, the other win against Rangers came due to a soft early yellow card.

Most of the goals against us and Rangers have been wonder goals.

I expect "him" to go 4-6-0 on occasion next season.

PeterboroHibee
13-04-2015, 08:00 AM
In his pre-match interview, Neilson said he'd set his team up the same as Hibs so that it would be a case of a straight man v man (or or player versus their player). Anyone know exactly how long he stuck with that approach?

I think Neilson just tried to copy what worked for the Rangers and that was the extent of his tactical calculations.

Rangers pushed their wingbacks so high up the pitch that it almost negated what Stevenson and Gray/Watson bring to the team. Hearts didnt really do that, where Boyle in particular had lots of space to push on, and our 5 man midfield going forward outplayed them. I also think we had a bit of an off day against Rangers, where our midfielders couldnt really get into the game.

adhibs
13-04-2015, 08:16 AM
hooooooooffffffff

Some of their long balls in the first half were a joy to watch

hibsbollah
13-04-2015, 08:36 AM
I think Neilson set them up to take the piss. In the first ten minutes they were the better side, totally dominated possession and passed it around nicely in their own half. As time went on as it stopped working, they started hitting long balls, which gave us possession and we came more into the game. Him changing to 442 made not a bit of difference because we had the midfield won by then.

O'Rourke3
13-04-2015, 08:42 AM
Neilson set them up to ensure we weren't going to win. He added the kick\stamp\ noise up the danger man tactic that they revel in. It was clear from his post match interview that had gone badly"We expect to come here and win" He said it twice. That's their mantra. They expect us to bottle it if we don't get out in the lead.

BoomtownHibees
13-04-2015, 08:53 AM
Rangers pushed their wingbacks so high up the pitch that it almost negated what Stevenson and Gray/Watson bring to the team. Hearts didnt really do that, where Boyle in particular had lots of space to push on, and our 5 man midfield going forward outplayed them. I also think we had a bit of an off day against Rangers, where our midfielders couldnt really get into the game.

The reason that happened was because we played 4 at the back against The Rangers meaning our full backs couldn't get forward as they had to support the centre halves. Yesterday, playing 3 centre halves allowed our wing backs to push up the park a lot further as they could leave it 3 v 2 when they attacked. Stevenson and Boyle only had to track back when following their wing backs.

Geo_1875
13-04-2015, 09:11 AM
Neilson set them up to ensure we weren't going to win. He added the kick\stamp\ noise up the danger man tactic that they revel in. It was clear from his post match interview that had gone badly"We expect to come here and win" He said it twice. That's their mantra. They expect us to bottle it if we don't get out in the lead.

But Neilson didn't set them up not to lose. That was Levein's team and tactics all day long.

Scottie
13-04-2015, 09:12 AM
hooooooooffffffff
Pub Team :wink:

southern hibby
13-04-2015, 09:14 AM
Gents,
I think your being a bit unfair to Neilson, I think he got his tactics spot on.

GGTTH

tanfield
13-04-2015, 10:07 AM
hooooooooffffffff

This, 100%!

Winston Ingram
13-04-2015, 10:25 AM
The amount of Jambo's I've heard blaming the result on the formation is incredible. They only played 352 for 35 minutes :rolleyes:

Pretty Boy
13-04-2015, 11:17 AM
Hearts fans in my work furious at the way Levein set up.

In fairness to them every single one of them has said the best team won and they were lucky it was only 2. All also acknowledged when he changed the formation it made little difference bar a 10 minute spell at the start of the 2nd half.

It's funny because last week they were certs for a European place next season now they need 5 or 6 new players just to make the top 6. What a difference a day makes!

21.05.2016
13-04-2015, 11:19 AM
Neilson got it wrong in both the derbies at ER this season, unfortunately last time they got out of jail with a huge stroke of luck.

Dinkydoo
13-04-2015, 11:34 AM
To me, it looked like he tried to copy the tactics The Rangers used in our last game - by matching us man for man. The success The Rangers had however mostly came from pushing their wingbacks up to negate the effect of Gray and Stevenson. It looked like Neilsen expected the same kind of result by simply changing the formation and not Heart's approach to the game. Stevenson I felt didn't have a good game yesterday but Boyle was creating loads of space on the right side of the pitch - and Stevenson wasn't put under much pressure at all. Hearts kept trying to play the ball down the middle of the park whilst Fyvie, Allan and McGeough outplayed thier midfield all day long. He changed the formation back to 442 and continued to try the same 'through the middle' approach and when that didn't work, they resorted to trying to bypass the midfield by humping the ball up to our fairly large and commanding back three.

The 'tactics' used by Neilsen were terrible and Heart's were lucky we hadn't put four past them before half time as we hit the bar twice, had an effort cleared off the line and scored one. Whilst we had a bit of pressure to deal with in the second half and a goal saving block from Forster, El Alagui should have scored two and possibly even a third had Malonga put him through and Cummings had a valid penalty claim.

PPZPOL
13-04-2015, 11:42 AM
They played longer into big forwards and fair play for that as this is something that would, in the past, get results against us but the way Hanlon, Fontaine and Forster stood up to them was absolutely magic. Special mention for Hanlon as I think he has been guilty in seasons gone by of being caught with his body positioning or maybe lack of aggression and been rolled, pushed and generally rag dolled about by experienced forwards.

renato
13-04-2015, 07:48 PM
Neilson set them up to ensure we weren't going to win. He added the kick\stamp\ noise up the danger man tactic that they revel in. It was clear from his post match interview that had gone badly"We expect to come here and win" He said it twice. That's their mantra. They expect us to bottle it if we don't get out in the lead.

I think what he was getting at post match was that a Hearts team should always be coming to ER and winning, like they expect it and, given how big a team they are, we the listeners should all expect it too. Very disrespectful and reminded me of the comments that used to come from camp Romanov (or in fact any point over their 30 years of financial doping). When pressed on why his team were out thought and out fought, it was back to the default "we've won the league already blah blah blah..." with focus away from his own shortcomings.

I actually didn't mind the Caveman much up until I heard his post match comments, what a graceless, arrogant, sour grapes, classless yam welt he is. Not one acknowledgement that he and his team were simply beaten by a better side, on the day.

Also his comments pre match were very much "we're matching up man for man with Hibs and therefore my team will cause them problems, that's why we're set up that way." Again, assumption that they're a good enough team to match up to us away from home and take the game to us, without us being able to trouble them, despite the evidence of the previous derbies this season. How did that go for you, Caveman / Potter?

Compare this to someone like Sergio who was pretty classy, fair and actually a pretty good manager. Very un-hearts like!

portycabbage
13-04-2015, 08:07 PM
If neilson is "expecting" to win at ER, then you'd think they would have won on more than 7 out of their last 30 league visits.

matty_f
13-04-2015, 08:09 PM
If neilson is "expecting" to win at ER, then you'd think they would have won on more than 7 out of their last 30 league visits.
Is that stat right?

They don't half believe their own hype, eh?

capitals_finest
13-04-2015, 08:15 PM
I think what he was getting at post match was that a Hearts team should always be coming to ER and winning, like they expect it and, given how big a team they are, we the listeners should all expect it too. Very disrespectful and reminded me of the comments that used to come from camp Romanov (or in fact any point over their 30 years of financial doping). When pressed on why his team were out thought and out fought, it was back to the default "we've won the league already blah blah blah..." with focus away from his own shortcomings.

I actually didn't mind the Caveman much up until I heard his post match comments, what a graceless, arrogant, sour grapes, classless yam welt he is. Not one acknowledgement that he and his team were simply beaten by a better side, on the day.

Also his comments pre match were very much "we're matching up man for man with Hibs and therefore my team will cause them problems, that's why we're set up that way." Again, assumption that they're a good enough team to match up to us away from home and take the game to us, without us being able to trouble them, despite the evidence of the previous derbies this season. How did that go for you, Caveman / Potter?

Compare this to someone like Sergio who was pretty classy, fair and actually a pretty good manager. Very un-hearts like!

Totally agree good post.

tamig
13-04-2015, 08:42 PM
The reason that happened was because we played 4 at the back against The Rangers meaning our full backs couldn't get forward as they had to support the centre halves. Yesterday, playing 3 centre halves allowed our wing backs to push up the park a lot further as they could leave it 3 v 2 when they attacked. Stevenson and Boyle only had to track back when following their wing backs.
EXactly. They said on the radio before the game Rangers were lining up 3-5-2. I said to my boy walking round to the game that we'd have to match it. 10 minutes into the game and it was clear we were being pinned back. The most annoying thing for me was Stubbs did absolutely nothing to change it and the hun strolled it.

BoomtownHibees
13-04-2015, 08:48 PM
EXactly. They said on the radio before the game Rangers were lining up 3-5-2. I said to my boy walking round to the game that we'd have to match it. 10 minutes into the game and it was clear we were being pinned back. The most annoying thing for me was Stubbs did absolutely nothing to change it and the hun strolled it.

Yeah definitely. I think Stubbs was a wee bit stubborn thinking as we have the better players then we should let them worry about us rather than the other way around but you are right, 10/15 minutes in to the game should have saw us matching them up

Sir David Gray
13-04-2015, 08:55 PM
Is that stat right?

They don't half believe their own hype, eh?

Yep.

matty_f
13-04-2015, 09:05 PM
Yep.

It's definitely not 'what they do' then. Bawbags.

Baader
13-04-2015, 09:16 PM
Pep Levein made a big mistake thinking he could go toe to toe with our midfield. Absolutely no contest.they underestimated us at the back as well. Three good centre halves.

NadeAteMyLunch!
13-04-2015, 09:43 PM
Neilson will get found out big time next season. I'm absolutely convinced of that. They have been lucky/pish in every game against us and the huns this season and pumped in both cups by Celtic

portycabbage
13-04-2015, 09:47 PM
It's definitely not 'what they do' then. Bawbags.

First game of those 30 I mentioned was the last before we went down in 98, the Kevin Harper winner (was 17 years 2 days ago incidentally!). So we've been relegated twice but they've still only managed 7 league wins in all that time at ER.

Iggy Pope
13-04-2015, 09:57 PM
If neilson is "expecting" to win at ER, then you'd think they would have won on more than 7 out of their last 30 league visits.

The expectation always outlives the stats.
Certain vintage will know that the 22 in a row Pish was seriously quite a lot of nowt-nowt draw pish.
Question. Robbie Filmstar: much of a record against the Cabbage as a player? 50/50 as a boss I reckon. Off the ropes and on points for his 50.

3pm
13-04-2015, 09:59 PM
Sow was the man in the 2nd half who looked like he may do something. He hovered in that inside left position and was quite involved.

Took the fat guy off, put Sow up front and brought that boy King on who couldn't kick his own arse. So he took off one ineffective guy and put another on while making his danger man pish as well.

Played Robbie. :aok:

Danderhall Hibs
13-04-2015, 10:22 PM
I think it's fair to say he's been found wanting in the big games. They've pumped everyone from 4th down regularly and that consistency has meant they win the league.

Next season will be interesting for them as Neilson clearly doesn't have a clue how to change things round and adapt his tactics to the better teams.

Viva_Palmeiras
13-04-2015, 10:48 PM
The expectation always outlives the stats.
Certain vintage will know that the 22 in a row Pish was seriously quite a lot of nowt-nowt draw pish.
Question. Robbie Filmstar: much of a record against the Cabbage as a player? 50/50 as a boss I reckon. Off the ropes and on points for his 50.

Paul Wrights leg break typifies their win at all costs. He was coming on to a game causing them grief when Berry knobbled him. And the rest is Hibstory. But that was a turning point IMO that could have changed the course of things. Wasn't to be.

Ozyhibby
14-04-2015, 09:02 AM
I think Sunday was more down to Alan Stubbs getting his tactics right rather than anything Neilson got wrong.
Hearts this season have mainly been playing the ball up through the midfield before moving the ball out wide. Gomis is the key player who receives the ball from their centre halves and plays forward.
On Sunday Cummings and Farid worked hard all game in stopping Hearts from making the pass to Gomis. Only once the were in between the ball carrier and Gomis did they move to press the ball directly.
That's why the Hearts centre halves were playing it longer than they have been doing. They were not set up for that type of game and a lot of their passes were going astray. They were making very basic errors because they did not have the easy option of giving the ball to Gomis.
Sunday was a great tactical victory for Stubbs.
He could only have done it with forwards who are prepared to work hard doing something that a lot of people would not have realised they were doing are therefore got no credit for.
Well done Farid and Jason.

Bill Milne
14-04-2015, 09:18 AM
While I think Neilson has done well in his first season, the suspicion remains that his strings are, effectively, being pulled from behind by Harry Potter. There is, also, little credit given to the work done by Locke last season which allowed Neilson to hit the ground running IMHO.

Smartie
14-04-2015, 09:45 AM
While I think Neilson has done well in his first season, the suspicion remains that his strings are, effectively, being pulled from behind by Harry Potter. There is, also, little credit given to the work done by Locke last season which allowed Neilson to hit the ground running IMHO.

I have (stupidly) gone onto kb from time to time to see what they are saying and I'm amazed that they don't give Locke more credit. They tend to focus on his failings as a manager rather than what he achieved. Ok, they got relegated under him but it was him who got all the young players blooded in the first team against a backdrop of horrendous upheaval. I think he deserves massive credit for providing the base upon which Neilson could build. They prefer to give all the credit to Neilson though.

I suppose it reminds me a bit of our own Williamson to Mowbray transition. At the time I thought Williamson was hopeless and Mowbray was the best manager in the world. As time goes by I appreciate more the decent job that Williamson did under difficult circumstances and that set up Mowbray to succeed.

They do recognise that Locke could get them up for a derby though and they are questioning whether or not Neilson can as they haven't played particularly well in any of their games against us this season.

CockneyRebel
14-04-2015, 09:58 AM
The expectation always outlives the stats.
Certain vintage will know that the 22 in a row Pish was seriously quite a lot of nowt-nowt draw pish.
Question. Robbie Filmstar: much of a record against the Cabbage as a player? 50/50 as a boss I reckon. Off the ropes and on points for his 50.


A good few of those draws they were lucky to get a point - but the way they went on you'd think they had won 22 in a row. Not a nice stat to have against us but very over hyped.

CockneyRebel
14-04-2015, 10:00 AM
I think Sunday was more down to Alan Stubbs getting his tactics right rather than anything Neilson got wrong.
Hearts this season have mainly been playing the ball up through the midfield before moving the ball out wide. Gomis is the key player who receives the ball from their centre halves and plays forward.
On Sunday Cummings and Farid worked hard all game in stopping Hearts from making the pass to Gomis. Only once the were in between the ball carrier and Gomis did they move to press the ball directly.
That's why the Hearts centre halves were playing it longer than they have been doing. They were not set up for that type of game and a lot of their passes were going astray. They were making very basic errors because they did not have the easy option of giving the ball to Gomis.
Sunday was a great tactical victory for Stubbs.
He could only have done it with forwards who are prepared to work hard doing something that a lot of people would not have realised they were doing are therefore got no credit for.
Well done Farid and Jason.

Pretty accurate analysis IMO.

JimBHibees
14-04-2015, 10:32 AM
I have (stupidly) gone onto kb from time to time to see what they are saying and I'm amazed that they don't give Locke more credit. They tend to focus on his failings as a manager rather than what he achieved. Ok, they got relegated under him but it was him who got all the young players blooded in the first team against a backdrop of horrendous upheaval. I think he deserves massive credit for providing the base upon which Neilson could build. They prefer to give all the credit to Neilson though.

I suppose it reminds me a bit of our own Williamson to Mowbray transition. At the time I thought Williamson was hopeless and Mowbray was the best manager in the world. As time goes by I appreciate more the decent job that Williamson did under difficult circumstances and that set up Mowbray to succeed.

They do recognise that Locke could get them up for a derby though and they are questioning whether or not Neilson can as they haven't played particularly well in any of their games against us this season.

Or maybe they arent as good as they think they are. They have good young attacking players however defence and midfield are pretty average IMO.

Smartie
14-04-2015, 10:39 AM
Or maybe they arent as good as they think they are. They have good young attacking players however defence and midfield are pretty average IMO.

I agree.

Credit to them, they've done well this season and it's the team that gets the most points that wins the league which they have done. But what they have done well is to be very professional and consistently beat the smaller teams.

I think they have carried a lot of luck and been found wanting at times in the games against us and The Rangers.

I don't think they are as good as they think they are and it will be interesting to see what happens next season for them.

JimBHibees
14-04-2015, 10:52 AM
I agree.

Credit to them, they've done well this season and it's the team that gets the most points that wins the league which they have done. But what they have done well is to be very professional and consistently beat the smaller teams.

I think they have carried a lot of luck and been found wanting at times in the games against us and The Rangers.

I don't think they are as good as they think they are and it will be interesting to see what happens next season for them.

A defence of Paterson, Ozturk, Wilson and McHattie is asking for trouble. On another day we would have tucked them away for 4 or 5.

Aldo
14-04-2015, 11:31 AM
A defence of Paterson, Ozturk, Wilson and McHattie is asking for trouble. On another day we would have tucked them away for 4 or 5.

Wilson will be gone IMHO with Smellic sniffing about.

Yams I know are of the opinion it's business as usual and believe they will have the biggest budget outwith Smellic next season.

I asked where the money was coming from to be told ST, DD and Budge will be putting in a large wedge.

They really still don't get it.

Ozyhibby
14-04-2015, 12:09 PM
Wilson will be gone IMHO with Smellic sniffing about.

Yams I know are of the opinion it's business as usual and believe they will have the biggest budget outwith Smellic next season.

I asked where the money was coming from to be told ST, DD and Budge will be putting in a large wedge.

They really still don't get it.

To be fair, they are probably correct. Their season ticket sales will be the highest apart from Celtic (assuming we can keep Sevco down), the direct debits are due to be paid directly towards running costs again this year but I doubt Budge will be chipping in any cash.

Geo_1875
14-04-2015, 12:38 PM
To be fair, they are probably correct. Their season ticket sales will be the highest apart from Celtic (assuming we can keep Sevco down), the direct debits are due to be paid directly towards running costs again this year but I doubt Budge will be chipping in any cash.

Lots of tickets sold but not a huge amount of cash comes in. They'll use the DD money and fan ownership slips by another year or two. And you're right, Budge won't bankroll a spending spree. However, they will have the Save the Children money "resting" in their bank account.

JimBHibees
14-04-2015, 12:41 PM
Wilson will be gone IMHO with Smellic sniffing about.

Yams I know are of the opinion it's business as usual and believe they will have the biggest budget outwith Smellic next season.

I asked where the money was coming from to be told ST, DD and Budge will be putting in a large wedge.

They really still don't get it.

I would honestly be astounded if Celtc signed him, think he is a liability defensively.

woodythehibee
14-04-2015, 05:26 PM
I would honestly be astounded if Celtc signed him, think he is a liability defensively.
Most Jambos I speak to say they would drive Wilson to Celtic Park themselves.

Zazu62
15-04-2015, 08:52 AM
If neilson is "expecting" to win at ER, then you'd think they would have won on more than 7 out of their last 30 league visits.

An interesting stat. How many have we won since then?

CallumLaidlaw
15-04-2015, 09:11 AM
An interesting stat. How many have we won since then?

We've won 10 in the last 30 league games at ER. We've won 12 in the last 34 at ER if you include cup games.

weecounty hibby
15-04-2015, 09:37 AM
His tactics are the same as every other hearts manager as far back as my first derby in 79. Kick Hibs off the park, bully the most creative players, load the team with hammer throwers, lump long balls, fall down as if shot when anyone comes near them, cheat, blame evryone else when they get beat, find some excuse for losjng rather than admitting the best team won, generally being hearts class. Right up him. Found out on Sunday just like his team. They will struggle next year big time

O'Rourke3
15-04-2015, 09:50 AM
His tactics are the same as every other hearts manager as far back as my first derby in 79. Kick Hibs off the park, bully the most creative players, load the team with hammer throwers, lump long balls, fall down as if shot when anyone comes near them, cheat, blame evryone else when they get beat, find some excuse for losjng rather than admitting the best team won, generally being hearts class. Right up him. Found out on Sunday just like his team. They will struggle next year big time

You only missed out timewaste, otherwise very accurate :agree:

Judas Iscariot
15-04-2015, 10:01 AM
An interesting stat. How many have we won since then?

We've won 8 games in those 30 compared to their 7...

Our recent derby record is utterly terrible