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View Full Version : Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.



matty_f
04-04-2015, 08:05 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

ancient hibee
04-04-2015, 08:44 PM
At this level most of the players are not very good.If we are as talented as we're supposed to be the effort has to go in to make the other team uncomfortable on the ball.Instead the Queens defenders were allowed to play the ball out and their midfield was allowed to bring the ball up at whatever pace they wanted.There was no pressure exerted-it was like unopposed football training at times and shouldn't be acceptable at any level.

Jonnyboy
04-04-2015, 08:48 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

Can't disagree with any of that, Matty :agree:

Steve20
04-04-2015, 08:49 PM
We aren't that talented a team anyway. People were getting way too carried away with a few wins over Dumbarton, Livingston and Cowdenbeath.

rcarter1
04-04-2015, 08:51 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

Our club has an unfortunate habit of making claims that it fails to back up. Fittest team in the league? Lewis for sure, but then he's a total pro. Some of these lot are anything but professional. Our second halves over the season are demonstrably worse on average than our first halves. For the fittest team (fitter than Hearts are we claiming?), we don't half fall out of games (And I know we had a strong finish today).

I wish the club would - Achieve first, then talk about how they did it.

lyonhibs
04-04-2015, 08:53 PM
What does one consider as bottling it if not being found wanting for effort across the park by a part time team?.

These past 3 games we've shown our usual stomach and savoir faire for the crunch.

Jonnyboy
04-04-2015, 08:53 PM
Our club has an unfortunate habit of making claims that it fails to back up. Fittest team in the league? Lewis for sure, but then he's a total pro. Some of these lot are anything but professional. Our second halves over the season are demonstrably worse on average than our first halves. For the fittest team (fitter than Hearts are we claiming?), we don't half fall out of games (And I know we had a strong finish today).

I wish the club would - Achieve first, then talk about how they did it.

TBF I don't think anyone at the club has ever said that. It's more a thing posted on here

PS If they have said it, the club that is, then I agree it's nonsense :greengrin

Bishop Hibee
04-04-2015, 08:58 PM
Poor for the first 25 mins. After that we ran about a lot to no great purpose. Lack of pace, width and a bit of guile around the box did for us not lack of effort especially in the second half.

rcarter1
04-04-2015, 09:05 PM
TBF I don't think anyone at the club has ever said that. It's more a thing posted on here

PS If they have said it, the club that is, then I agree it's nonsense :greengrin

Happy to stand corrected about that.

I always get a sinking feeling when I hear Hibs or Hibs fans making claims like: we're now the best team in the division, fittest, best passing etc.

I wish we just get the job done before going public with self congratulatory nonsense...

matty_f
04-04-2015, 09:06 PM
What does one consider as bottling it if not being found wanting for effort across the park by a part time team?.

These past 3 games we've shown our usual stomach and savoir faire for the crunch.

Bottling it is what we did last season. We worked hard but looked scared of our own shadows. Players didn't try anything other than the most simple of things.

We had players looking to get on the ball today and trying difficult things, we were found wanting when it came to matching their work rate though, IMHO.

snooky
04-04-2015, 09:07 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

I said the exact same to my mate. Always looked like they had at least 2 more men on the park than us today.
We don't close the opposition down and we let them close us down. Been like that for ages.

matty_f
04-04-2015, 09:07 PM
Poor for the first 25 mins. After that we ran about a lot to no great purpose. Lack of pace, width and a bit of guile around the box did for us not lack of effort especially in the second half.

The effort came long after the damage was done, it was too little, too late.

Sir David Gray
04-04-2015, 09:07 PM
TBF I don't think anyone at the club has ever said that. It's more a thing posted on here

PS If they have said it, the club that is, then I agree it's nonsense :greengrin

Stubbs said it at the AGM.

Stubbs followed with a resume of the season so far, in which he admitted that his playing squad had not been in the best shape at the start of the campaign. “The players weren’t in the condition they should have been in,” the manager said. “I believe we’re the fittest team in the league now.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/share-offer-backed-by-hibs-support-at-feisty-agm-1-3672574

familyman
04-04-2015, 09:16 PM
Exactly right.
This team showed a complete lack of urgency and Malonga just strolled around .The tactics were all wrong, the players never once drove straight at defence in first half and Q of scored doing exactly that!!!We only came alive AFTER we lost the goal,indeed Q of S had the best chance of the first half...This Hibs team have fallen short yet again...lost our bottle ?maybe not but we have lost a sense of belief despite all the newspaper chat from players ,what they say and what they actually are not the same at all.IF we get to the play offs and it is an iF they need to be far more professional all round and also use different tactics for different teams!!!!!That team owes us after last seasons farce....
why on earth did we take of our fastest player...what is going on? It is about time we got a grip.
Come on guys it is the business end of the season....


QUOTE=matty_f;4339967]A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.[/QUOTE]

Jonnyboy
04-04-2015, 09:17 PM
Stubbs said it at the AGM.

Stubbs followed with a resume of the season so far, in which he admitted that his playing squad had not been in the best shape at the start of the campaign. “The players weren’t in the condition they should have been in,” the manager said. “I believe we’re the fittest team in the league now.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/share-offer-backed-by-hibs-support-at-feisty-agm-1-3672574

Knew that would come back to haunt me :greengrin

rcarter1
04-04-2015, 09:17 PM
Stubbs said it at the AGM.

Stubbs followed with a resume of the season so far, in which he admitted that his playing squad had not been in the best shape at the start of the campaign. “The players weren’t in the condition they should have been in,” the manager said. “I believe we’re the fittest team in the league now.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/share-offer-backed-by-hibs-support-at-feisty-agm-1-3672574

As a rookie manager Im happy to cut Alan a lot of slack, he's done pretty well given the lateness of his arrival. I do think he will reflect upon this season and learn from it. One would be not saying things that are likely to make you seem silly. Fittest team is one, Ozturks 1 in a million is another, commenting about fans negative responses to last minute capitulations is another.

Keep it simple, don't get into arguments with your own supporters (even when they are being radges), and don't ever blow your own trumpet before you've taken the prize (and even then true class keeps its cool in all events).

Billy Whizz
04-04-2015, 09:19 PM
Stubbs said it at the AGM.

Stubbs followed with a resume of the season so far, in which he admitted that his playing squad had not been in the best shape at the start of the campaign. “The players weren’t in the condition they should have been in,” the manager said. “I believe we’re the fittest team in the league now.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/share-offer-backed-by-hibs-support-at-feisty-agm-1-3672574

To be fair, we have employed one of the best fitness coaches in The business in Craig Flannagan, so he was entitled to say it.... at the time

Ozyhibby
04-04-2015, 09:24 PM
We aren't that talented a team anyway. People were getting way too carried away with a few wins over Dumbarton, Livingston and Cowdenbeath.

100% spot on
We are under performing in a crap league

DC_Hibs
04-04-2015, 09:53 PM
I think too many players were reading Hibs.net and believing that we were the best team in the league and were only miles behind HoMFC due to a poor start! All this was when we were level with the worst Huns team ever.

We were on a decent run of results prior to the Huns results but some of the performances were average at best. A midfield of Fyvie, McGeouch and Allan in front of the effective Robertson in the holding role should be dominating games in this division but are far from it. Ability alone won't get the job done so it's up to Stubbs to get the best out of them or change things.

Let's hope we can produce more performances like the Sevco home demolition and the latter derby ones when the semis and play off games come around or the reasonable improvements made will mean F all at a time when we are trying to shift season tickets to boost next seasons budget.

Crucial weeks coming up.

truehibernian
04-04-2015, 10:07 PM
Danny Carmichael - cannot trawl old posts but posted 3 seasons ago we should have signed the lad - best player on the pitch. Tanner ba' winger which is what we need.

Stubbsy - get the lad signed :aok:

J-C
04-04-2015, 10:51 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.


Spot on Matty, I could easily have walked out at half time because I was bored to tears wtching 5-10 yard passes going either sideways or backwards, Malonga strolling aroung half ersed, Cummings looking like a headless chicken at times, and 2 midfielders who are so alike they get in each others way. This diamond only works when everyone is on the same sheet, at the moment it's not working because teams have sussed out how to play us, negate our wingbacks and everything comes through the middle, which is then easy to close down. We need extra width and pace yet he allows Boyle to sit on the bench along side Djedje, 2 players blessed with pace who would froghten any defense with it.

The players were allowed to believe in the hype and now it come back to bite us, we need to find another system pronto or it's staying here for at least another season.

The_Horde
04-04-2015, 11:00 PM
Agree 100% Matty.

We've been like this all season. The problem with us playing 4 at the back is we need a shift from everyone. Which is why I think we have to go back to the 3/5 that we've had so much success from. It gives us a great solid core of grafters which teams find hard to break down, allows us to be expansive on the front foot too and means our full backs don't necesarilly have to be pinned back.

I've no idea why he's changed it and won't go back to it.

snooky
04-04-2015, 11:47 PM
Another consistent failing we have is the lack of players in the box when we attack. The number of times I see only one Hibs striker against 3 defenders is unbelievable.

Add this to the fact we always take the scenic route to the opposition's goal. A far more direct approach and with a bit of urgency would, if nothing else, make the game more exciting to watch.

number9dream
05-04-2015, 06:24 AM
OP is spot on. We don't do nearly enough to win the ball back quickly high up the park.

BSEJVT
05-04-2015, 06:53 AM
I wouldn't know if we were the fittest team in the league or not, but I do wonder if the fact that many of the team have played more football this season than any other in their careers is taking a toll.

If you look around at them, some of these guys didn't play week in week out at their previous clubs.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2015, 06:59 AM
The amount of late goals we've lost points to either a lack of fitness or a lack of concentration.

Either way good post Matthew and what a great line from Yogi.

HFC 0-7
05-04-2015, 08:06 AM
Bottling it is what we did last season. We worked hard but looked scared of our own shadows. Players didn't try anything other than the most simple of things.

We had players looking to get on the ball today and trying difficult things, we were found wanting when it came to matching their work rate though, IMHO.

Totally disagree Matty! I didn't see players wanting to get on the ball it trying difficult things. I saw players passing backwards mostly because no one was making themselves available for a pass, or, because they didn't want to make a tricky pass forward.

if you watch that game again, movement off the ball was rubbish, to me it had all the hall marks of people being nervous to get on the ball and try and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Challenges as well, were pretty non existent apart from farid and robertson.

like your optimism but players were not looking to get on the ball yesterday.

Brooster
05-04-2015, 08:12 AM
Matty is spot on. In the last 3 games we have lost against teams who have pressed us constantly whilst we stand off and let them have time on the ball. The right sided defender Durning always had all the time in the world yesterday and will never have an easier game at any level ever because Malonga didnt put in a shift. We need to press teams, press them up the pitch, hem them in and force them in to mistakes. We need to win the battle before we win the war.

snedzuk
05-04-2015, 09:26 AM
Totally disagree Matty! I didn't see players wanting to get on the ball it trying difficult things. I saw players passing backwards mostly because no one was making themselves available for a pass, or, because they didn't want to make a tricky pass forward.

if you watch that game again, movement off the ball was rubbish, to me it had all the hall marks of people being nervous to get on the ball and try and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Challenges as well, were pretty non existent apart from farid and robertson.

like your optimism but players were not looking to get on the ball yesterday.

If anyone is brave enough to watch again then watch how often in the first half keith watson walks out with his back to oxley - might have been spotted by AS as he wasnt - what appeared to be - hiding in this way after half time. He looks shot of confidence to me.

CockneyRebel
05-04-2015, 10:21 AM
If anyone is brave enough to watch again then watch how often in the first half keith watson walks out with his back to oxley - might have been spotted by AS as he wasnt - what appeared to be - hiding in this way after half time. He looks shot of confidence to me.

Sorry but I don't get what you mean here.

snedzuk
05-04-2015, 10:43 AM
Sorry but I don't get what you mean here.

Sorry - whenever Oxley had the ball in his hands think David Gray - eager to receive and push on and give Oxley right and left side options as he never (rarely) kicks it long. Yesterday, Watson simply turned his back on Oxley (more than once) and started strolling up field looking all the world like "I am ignoring you do not give me that ball"

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2015, 10:43 AM
Sorry but I don't get what you mean here.

It would mean he's not looking for/wanting the ball, ie not getting on the ball.

Green Fish
05-04-2015, 11:01 AM
Totally agree. We need to cause panic in the opposition's box, to do this a higher tempo is needed and more importantly players with pace. Yesterday was a game for Boyle to come on and change the game. Pretty passing in the mf is fine and good but the qos defense had all the time in the world to organise themselves.
To AS, we'll back you all the way but surely you should have seen that yesterday

emerald green
05-04-2015, 11:04 AM
I read an article this morning and the journalist got it pretty much correct with some of her observations. I'm not going to try to steal her thunder, so I'm just going to quote a few bits from her article:

"They will still have their tilt at a return to the top flight but if they (Hibs) are not careful they will hurtle headlong into it burdened by the weight of a losing mentality and crumbling egos that has so often proved their nemesis in the past."

"This performance served as a wishy-washy acceptance that they might not have what it takes after all."

"Starved of creativity, the tempo was pedestrian and it was the lack of urgency and intensity which proved to be the even greater source of irritation to the Hibs fans."

"No one in the green shirts had the vision, the bottle or the luck to get into the right place at the right time." (She was talking about getting onto balls into the box here).

"For the vast majority of the game QOS won every header, desperately contested or cleared the second ball and were unlucky not to be further ahead by the time Hibs forced saves from Zander Clark."

Sadly, I cannot find much to disagree with here. The bit I've highlighted in bold is the bit that I just cannot understand. Why cannot this club shake that mentality off?

Yes, Hibs did go on a very good run of results this season, but when it comes to crunch time they just can't get over the line.

The season isn't over yet, but IMHO it's not looking good for promotion. We'll get a clearer picture after today's match at Greyskull.

ancient hibee
05-04-2015, 11:04 AM
I think too many players were reading Hibs.net and believing that we were the best team in the league and were only miles behind HoMFC due to a poor start! All this was when we were level with the worst Huns team ever.

We were on a decent run of results prior to the Huns results but some of the performances were average at best. A midfield of Fyvie, McGeouch and Allan in front of the effective Robertson in the holding role should be dominating games in this division but are far from it. Ability alone won't get the job done so it's up to Stubbs to get the best out of them or change things.

Let's hope we can produce more performances like the Sevco home demolition and the latter derby ones when the semis and play off games come around or the reasonable improvements made will mean F all at a time when we are trying to shift season tickets to boost next seasons budget.

Crucial weeks coming up.

Don't agree -three similar mid fielders is why we are easy to play against.They all want to be in the same space playing short passes-easy to mark.AS should decide on any two with Robertson but if it's to be four the other one should be Craig or preferably Handling.

marinello59
05-04-2015, 11:30 AM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

I disagree Mattie. I don't think there was a lack of effort from our players. What we lacked was guile, imagination and a game plan to deal with Queen of the South. Why the bench let them dominate things for the first half hour without getting the message to the players that things had to change totally baffled me. Stubbs response was almost Fenlonesque in that he let things run their course in the hope that simply having better players would get us through. Removing a high energy player like Cummings and leaving Malonga on the pitch was simply wrong. a bad day at the office for everybody but for me the main blame lies with the coaching staff. Unlike PF I am confident Stubbs will learn from this. For me he is the long term solution but his inexperience showed yesterday.

silverhibee
05-04-2015, 11:31 AM
The amount of late goals we've lost points to either a lack of fitness or a lack of concentration.

Either way good post Matthew and what a great line from Yogi.

When did Yogi say this quote.

Because if it was said at Hibs then we won games through talent (Stokes & Riordan) rather than hard work, and that talent got us our highest place in the league since probably the Mowbray days, where Yogi had us finishing 4th in the top league and got us a place in Europe.

Now the fittest team in the Championship (not my words) are struggling to beat part time sides and the mighty QOTS and Falkirk, not good enough, we have talent in the team, but they don't do enough with it and it's normally a nice pass or a good bit of skill, i would rather the talented players we have were having more shots on goals and setting them up.

The Leith Dutch
05-04-2015, 11:33 AM
Sorry - whenever Oxley had the ball in his hands think David Gray - eager to receive and push on and give Oxley right and left side options as he never (rarely) kicks it long. Yesterday, Watson simply turned his back on Oxley (more than once) and started strolling up field looking all the world like "I am ignoring you do not give me that ball"

This is the root of it for me.

One of the main reasons why we've been good this season is very sparing use of the hoof up the park by the keeper.

I remember Collins making the point that none of the coaching badges taught that because it's a really bad idea - you lose possession most of the time.

Oxley has tended to throw it out sometimes to the Centre Backs but largely to Stevenson and Gray.
The game against the rangers McCall had clearly clocked this and had drummed in to them that he wanted this cut off.
They did - Miller was all over it himself plus pointing to other players to shut us down.

They succeded and we punted the ball and the results were there for all to see.

If a team does that we need to work twice as hard to make sure we've got a man in space that Oxley can distribute to - the OP is spot on that we're not working hard enough.

matty_f
05-04-2015, 11:40 AM
I disagree Mattie. I don't think there was a lack of effort from our players. What we lacked was guile, imagination and a game plan to deal with Queen of the South. Why the bench let them dominate things for the first half hour without getting the message to the players that things had to change totally baffled me. Stubbs response was almost Fenlonesque in that he let things run their course in the hope that simply having better players would get us through. Removing a high energy player like Cummings and leaving Malonga on the pitch was simply wrong. a bad day at the office for everybody but for me the main blame lies with the coaching staff. Unlike PF I am confident Stubbs will learn from this. For me he is the long term solution but his inexperience showed yesterday.

I wouldn't say we worked hard at all. We were second to everything for long spells in the game and when we did get the ball nobody was bursting a gut to do anything with it.
We played at a wholly pedestrian pace for all but the last chunk of the game, and we stood off QotS time and time again.
We looked like we expected something to happen for us if we just kept plodding along.
Look at their goal, the wide player bust a gut to get on the end of a pass, crossed first time and then their players wanted it more when the ball was in the box.
Cummings wasn't energetic yesterday, he had Malonga were at half pace the whole second half. They weren't winning headers or getting to the ball first or giving the defence a hard time, they were pedestrian and one -paced.
We are a better team than QotS, of that I have no doubt, but when they work as hard as they did and we don't match that then we are liable to lose to them.
We have players capable of that bit of guile that was missing yesterday but if others aren't working hard to find space or shake off their markers, or create some space for others then there's no outlet for the guile.
For me yesterday was all about work rate and effort, only a couple of players came away with pass marks on that front yesterday.

basehibby
05-04-2015, 11:47 AM
A total lack of urgency in the first half cost us today. The pace of the passing was lackadaisical and QOS were given all the room in the world in posession such they looked like they had an extra man on the pitch.

One reason for that is perhaps the balance in midfield - we had three talented ball players in Fyvie, Stanton and Allen on the pitch but the flip side of that was perhaps a lack of inclination to close down space and prevent the opposition from playing - the same could be said for Malonga up front who was strolling about like he was on holiday. I understand the idea of economy of effort for a striker but he made it FAR too easy for the QOS defence - right up until the booing of some of the fans when Cummings was subbed instead of him seemed to jerk him out of his reverie.

The appearance of El Alagui made a big difference and gives some cause for optimism but on this occasion it was not enough to yield a point which we barely deserved.

Brightside
05-04-2015, 12:25 PM
A quote from Yogi that this current Hibs side would do well to consider.

We lost today because Queen of the South worked harder than us. I don't think we bottled it for a second, I think we were found wanting for effort right across the park.

Too many players were strolling through the game, and that's why we got (and deserved) nothing from the game.

For a team that was being touted as the fittest in the league, I'd be amazed if QotS didn't cover more ground than us today. Our players didn't get a moment's peace when they had the ball, and they found finding space difficult because QotS matched runs and shut the space down.

We, on the other hand, gave them all the space they needed, didn't press and hustle them, and didn't track runners and shut space down.

We expected something to happen for us today, QotS made something happen for them. That was the difference.

There won't be many of that Queens team that would make our first eleven, but they were better than us today because they worked harder and wanted it more.

That, in any game never mind a home one at Easter Road, is an unacceptable situation. The bare minimum requirement is that the team work hard. Only a couple of the players today can claim pass marks for work rate.

Spot on Matty - a fair few players thinking they just need to turn up. Could not believe how often we were beaten to the ball. Midfield were shockingly lazy.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2015, 12:42 PM
When did Yogi say this quote.

Because if it was said at Hibs then we won games through talent (Stokes & Riordan) rather than hard work, and that talent got us our highest place in the league since probably the Mowbray days, where Yogi had us finishing 4th in the top league and got us a place in Europe.

Now the fittest team in the Championship (not my words) are struggling to beat part time sides and the mighty QOTS and Falkirk, not good enough, we have talent in the team, but they don't do enough with it and it's normally a nice pass or a good bit of skill, i would rather the talented players we have were having more shots on goals and setting them up.

Silver, are you saying Stokes and Riordan didn't work hard?

Tyler Durden
05-04-2015, 01:55 PM
The amount of late goals we've lost points to either a lack of fitness or a lack of concentration.

Either way good post Matthew and what a great line from Yogi.

It's Vince Lombardi's line which Yogi quoted.

cleanyman
05-04-2015, 02:04 PM
The quote is all over St. Mirren Park also

Aldoo
05-04-2015, 02:20 PM
Silver, are you saying Stokes and Riordan didn't work hard?

Not sure if he is saying that or not but I do recall that for the first half of that season we played stokes, Riordan and nish up front and played a very high pressing game, I even recall Riordan cramping towards the end of one game as he'd work that hard.

Notably we did fall away in the second half of the season (again) but for those 6 first months we were excellent at giving no time to the opposition.

matty_f
05-04-2015, 03:40 PM
When did Yogi say this quote.

Because if it was said at Hibs then we won games through talent (Stokes & Riordan) rather than hard work, and that talent got us our highest place in the league since probably the Mowbray days, where Yogi had us finishing 4th in the top league and got us a place in Europe.

Now the fittest team in the Championship (not my words) are struggling to beat part time sides and the mighty QOTS and Falkirk, not good enough, we have talent in the team, but they don't do enough with it and it's normally a nice pass or a good bit of skill, i would rather the talented players we have were having more shots on goals and setting them up.

Silver unless you're saying that it was just talent and no hard work, you're backing up what I said.

silverhibee
05-04-2015, 04:48 PM
Silver, are you saying Stokes and Riordan didn't work hard?

Off course they worked hard, there hard work had a end product, assists & goals and you have to work hard to make theses assists and work hard to put the goals away, and they would do these things well, a bit like Sparky where if the shot is on they are confident enough to shoot from anywhere and work the goalkeeeper and they done it at the right end of the park, I don't want to see a fancy pass from our half if it comes to nothing at the end of it, we are jittery in front of goal where it looks like they are feared to shoot unless they are five feet away from goal, beating two players and the shot is on and for some bizare reason they play a silly pass and it doesn't come off for them.

How many goals have we scored from outside the box this season, i can think of Oxley. :greengrin

emerald green
05-04-2015, 05:22 PM
It's Vince Lombardi's line which Yogi quoted.

:agree: The legendary Lombardi, coach of The Green Bay Packers.

Danderhall Hibs
05-04-2015, 05:54 PM
Off course they worked hard, there hard work had a end product, assists & goals and you have to work hard to make theses assists and work hard to put the goals away, and they would do these things well, a bit like Sparky where if the shot is on they are confident enough to shoot from anywhere and work the goalkeeeper and they done it at the right end of the park, I don't want to see a fancy pass from our half if it comes to nothing at the end of it, we are jittery in front of goal where it looks like they are feared to shoot unless they are five feet away from goal, beating two players and the shot is on and for some bizare reason they play a silly pass and it doesn't come off for them.

How many goals have we scored from outside the box this season, i can think of Oxley. :greengrin

You've just prove Matthew's point correct then. :thumbsup:

silverhibee
05-04-2015, 06:57 PM
You've just prove Matthew's point correct then. :thumbsup:

The only full season Deek never finished top goal scorer in both spells at Hibs was when Yogi played him left midfield one season and he bagged 15 or 17 goals and got double figures in assists as well, that is a cracking stat for someone who plays that position, only Charlie Adam could claim a better stat from midfield that season and Steven Whittaker got double figures for a defender, Deek worked his butt off tracking back and helping with the defensive duties as well as getting forward and scoring and setting them up, he was even rewarded for his good play and hard work with Hibs that he got called up to the Scotland squad by George Burley that season.

How many times did Yogi drop Deek from his team, the only time i can think is in the European away leg where he went with Nish upfront and left Deek & Stokes on the bench, apart from that Deek played near enough every game under Yogi because Yogi could trust him to do his duties, if he wasn't tracking back and just being lazy and just sat upfront waiting for balls to be punted up the park then Yogi would have hooked him for not carrying out instructions, folk would moan on here and say they didn't want to see Deek tracking back and just leave him upfront to score goals, it's okay for folk to say that but if the manager says you track back then you track back.

Hope that proves Matty's point even further. :thumbsup:

ancient hibee
05-04-2015, 07:05 PM
Stubbs should sit the team down on Monday and show them the first half of Arsenal v Liverpool as an example of how a very talented group of small creative players can work their socks off to give a bigger team no peace whatsoever and turn them into a train wreck.

greenpaper55
05-04-2015, 07:19 PM
We have no plan B when we are closed down, if we had a Mixu like player who can hold up a long ball and bring other players onto knock downs then we will struggle as teams have sussed us now, Jock Stein said that for some games you had to put the boiler suit on to win them, we have not got that option.

rcarter1
05-04-2015, 07:26 PM
We have no plan B when we are closed down, if we had a Mixu like player who can hold up a long ball and bring other players onto knock downs then we will struggle as teams have sussed us now, Jock Stein said that for some games you had to put the boiler suit on to win them, we have not got that option.

El Alagui. Could be the returning hero…

superfurryhibby
05-04-2015, 07:39 PM
[QUOTE=matty_f;


We have players capable of that bit of guile that was missing yesterday but if others aren't working hard to find space or shake off their markers, or create some space for others then there's no outlet for the guile.
For me yesterday was all about work rate and effort, only a couple of players came away with pass marks on that front yesterday.[/QUOTE]
M


They have to earn the right to play Mattie, it's never a given and the guys with the guile need to show they can graft too, otherwise they become a luxury. Attitude is everything.

matty_f
05-04-2015, 07:49 PM
M


They have to earn the right to play Mattie, it's never a given and the guys with the guile need to show they can graft too, otherwise they become a luxury. Attitude is everything.
Totally agree.