The Election Debate 02 April 2015

[snooky]

One of my big concerns about tonight's debate is that, because 'the big 3' appear to be running scared of the SNP, they may well have formed a pact to attack the leader of the SNP at every opportunity in a joint attempt to take the Nationalists out of the equation before the big battle starts.

If they adopt this tactic, be it at their own peril. The Scots aren't daft. It will only reinforce the argument that the Libs and Labs are just tories, in yellow and red drag.

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will be well prepared and armed for her playground rendezvous with Dave & his public schoolboy gang. :wink:

[marinello59]

The more they throw at Nicola Sturgeon the better. She will be ready for them.

[lord bunberry]

One of my big concerns about tonight's debate is that, because 'the big 3' appear to be running scared of the SNP, they may well have formed a pact to attack the leader of the SNP at every opportunity in a joint attempt to take the Nationalists out of the equation before the big battle starts.

If they adopt this tactic, be it at their own peril. The Scots aren't daft. It will only reinforce the argument that the Libs and Labs are just tories, in yellow and red drag.

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will be well prepared and armed for her playground rendezvous with Dave & his public schoolboy gang. :wink:
I think the other 6 are more likely to gang up on Cameron, his wish that all parties be represented could well come back to haunt him.

[CB_NO3]

Yip in the first 10 minutes all you will get from Cameron is why vote for the party who tried to split the country up. Blah blah. Cameron and co should be delighted Salmond is not there because he can rip other politicians to shreds. I just hope we get some debate and not a shouting match.

[Mikey09]

[QUOTE=snooky;4338179]One of my big concerns about tonight's debate is that, because 'the big 3' appear to be running scared of the SNP, they may well have formed a pact to attack the leader of the SNP at every opportunity in a joint attempt to take the Nationalists out of the equation before the big battle starts.

If they adopt this tactic, be it at their own peril. The Scots aren't daft. It will only reinforce the argument that the Libs and Labs are just tories, in yellow and red drag.

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will be well prepared and armed for her playground rendezvous with Dave & his public schoolboy gang. :wink:[/


Whenever I've seen Nicola Sturgeon doing this kind of stuff she is more than capable of holding her own. She will, as always, be well prepared. In all honesty it's Cameron who will be the worried man as I think Our first Minister will have a few awkward questions for him.... Food banks being one of a few.

[snooky]

Agreed about NS holding her own, etc however, we're taking about a UK political cartel here. If they all gang up on her (and I include the moderator in this as I suspect he/she could well be another planted lackey*) she'll need to use all the wile she can muster.

*e.g. David Dimbleby

[Colr]

One of my big concerns about tonight's debate is that, because 'the big 3' appear to be running scared of the SNP, they may well have formed a pact to attack the leader of the SNP at every opportunity in a joint attempt to take the Nationalists out of the equation before the big battle starts.

If they adopt this tactic, be it at their own peril. The Scots aren't daft. It will only reinforce the argument that the Libs and Labs are just tories, in yellow and red drag.

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will be well prepared and armed for her playground rendezvous with Dave & his public schoolboy gang. :wink:

Not sure why the Conservatives would be running scared of the SNP.

If the Libs and Lab are just Tories why are the SNP supporting Labour?

[Colr]

I think the other 6 are more likely to gang up on Cameron, his wish that all parties be represented could well come back to haunt him.


Not really. He wants to see the opposition split across 6 parties rather than being seen as focused on Labour.

[Hibbyradge]

Yip in the first 10 minutes all you will get from Cameron is why vote for the party who tried to split the country up. Blah blah. Cameron and co should be delighted Salmond is not there because he can rip other politicians to shreds. I just hope we get some debate and not a shouting match.

I doubt Cameron will even mention the SNP.

He's quite happy that they're taking Labour seats.

[Colr]

I doubt Cameron will even mention the SNP.

He's quite happy that they're taking Labour seats.

Indeed... and he'll use the fake threat of SNP influence to boost Conservative votes south of the border (which is the only place they get seats anyway).

Its been interesting watching the surge to the Left from Nicola Sturgeon. No doubt it will appeal to the average Scottish Labour voter who is further from the centre than the average English Labour voter. It's the right ploy to take a share of the seats in Scotland, no doubt, but it does mean that the SNP are no longer the broad church that they once were.

It would not surprise me to see the Tories poll better in Scotland in the election that they have for many years (decades).

[Frazerbob]

1/3 with SkyBet that one of the leaders mentions Alex Salmond. Free money!

[Future17]

1/3 with SkyBet that one of the leaders mentions Alex Salmond. Free money!

Good spot: http://www.skybet.com/politics/live-tv-debate-_-_-thurs-2nd-april/event/17713643

Some of those are quite tempting, if only because I think tonight's "debate" will tell us nothing we don't already know and is liable to be a bit of a farce. At least some "bingo" would provide an interest! :greengrin

[BroxburnHibee]

I thought Cameron wasn't in this.

[wpj]

I watched a wee clip this morning from great Yarmouth on bbc brekkie, the Labour guy was embarrassing, rude, arrogant and up himself, while i did not have time for the rest (except maybe the green)if I lived there I would never vote labour cos of that plum. If anyone starts their spiel with "look" or "listen" they can get to Falkirk, maybe not fashionable with some but debate should be based on policy not slagging off others or talking down to me. Oh, and just answer the question!

[cabbageandribs1875]

does E-bay sell tv stun guns, i want to shoot farage right between the eyes

[Pretty Boy]

Indeed... and he'll use the fake threat of SNP influence to boost Conservative votes south of the border (which is the only place they get seats anyway).

Its been interesting watching the surge to the Left from Nicola Sturgeon. No doubt it will appeal to the average Scottish Labour voter who is further from the centre than the average English Labour voter. It's the right ploy to take a share of the seats in Scotland, no doubt, but it does mean that the SNP are no longer the broad church that they once were.

It would not surprise me to see the Tories poll better in Scotland in the election that they have for many years (decades).

The Tory vote in Scotland at this election is going to be very interesting.

It will be intriguing to see what happens in their former heartlands of Perthshire and surroinding areas. These were lost in the Poll Tax backlash and many voted SNP tactically rather than Labour. The referendum showed many in these areas still don't support independence so it will be worth watching to see if they again vote SNP to defeat Labour or if they feel they can once again vote Conservative.

[Mon Dieu4]

All three ladies are coming across well in my opinion, Farage is just a raving lunatic, how anyone could consider voting for him is beyond me

[Colr]

All three ladies are coming across well in my opinion, Farage is just a raving lunatic, how anyone could consider voting for him is beyond me

There's a big whole in politcal charisma these days whi allows Farage to appear almost interesting when he isn't at all.

[Jones28]

Monday morning will be awkward when nick brings the tea in, I'm anticipating a frosty silence.

[overdrive]

There's a big whole in politcal charisma these days whi allows Farage to appear almost interesting when he isn't at all.

He's by far the best talker of the 7.

[Chibs]

All three ladies are coming across well in my opinion, Farage is just a raving lunatic, how anyone could consider voting for him is beyond me

Agree mate,especially about Farage.
Nothing more than a xenophobic lunatic hoping to get votes from little englander.

[Betty Boop]

The heckler the most interesting part of the debate. What a borefest.

[Mikey09]

He's by far the best talker of the 7.


:faf::faf::faf:

[Hibbyradge]

Farage cemented his position as a one trick pony, but he's reasonable at the trick.

No one blew their chances, but Milliband did well.

Nicola Sturgeon shone.

IMHO.

[Hiber-nation]

Nicola was excellent! A lot of folk down south will be taking notice.

Cameron seemed to be holding back and Miliband was as expected, not very convincing.

Farage is a disgrace.

[BroxburnHibee]

One thing I did agree with about tonight is it is clear that the UK is no longer a 2 or 3 party country.

Our nations diverse politics may be starting to be reflected.

The old boys network won't like it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Sturgeon clear winner with Yougov *UK wide* poll!

[JeMeSouviens]

The Tory vote in Scotland at this election is going to be very interesting.

It will be intriguing to see what happens in their former heartlands of Perthshire and surroinding areas. These were lost in the Poll Tax backlash and many voted SNP tactically rather than Labour. The referendum showed many in these areas still don't support independence so it will be worth watching to see if they again vote SNP to defeat Labour or if they feel they can once again vote Conservative.

They're still flatlining in the polls.

[marinello59]

Nicola Sturgeon was outstanding.

[JeMeSouviens]

Agree mate,especially about Farage.
Nothing more than a xenophobic lunatic hoping to get votes from little englander.

Gary Lineker called him a dick on twitter. Wholesome lolz.

[Mikey09]

Nicola was excellent! A lot of folk down south will be taking notice.

Cameron seemed to be holding back and Miliband was as expected, not very convincing.

Farage is a disgrace.


How anyone can take that twat seriously is beyond me.... He'll be away home to watch his Alf Garnett videos...

[Pete]

Gary Lineker called him a dick on twitter. Wholesome lolz.

John Barnes has just tweeted that the only reason he wasn't invited to take part was that he was black.

[BroxburnHibee]

Michael Gove takes 5 seconds to mention Salmond on QT. :greengrin

[lucky]

Nicola did well but it's a choice between Milliband or Cameron and for me Milliband was far more convincing as PM

[hibsbollah]

Nicola did well but it's a choice between Milliband or Cameron and for me Milliband was far more convincing as PM

The women won. Sturgeon especially. And Miliband was far better than a clearly anxious Cameron.

[BroxburnHibee]

Clearly the Tory tactic is to scare middle England into thinking the big bad SNP are coming to get them.

Gove squirming in his seat as he refuses to rule out a deal with UKIP.

[Mikey09]

Michael Gove takes 5 seconds to mention Salmond on QT. :greengrin


Kinda getting the feeling Gove and his band of merry men are ****ting it re The SNP and the way Nicola Sturgeon is coming across in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. She went after Cameron and Miliband in that debate and basically just laughed at Farage.....:not worth

[Mikey09]

For not a single representative on QT the SNP really are causing a stir..... :faf:

[snooky]

One of my big concerns about tonight's debate is that, because 'the big 3' appear to be running scared of the SNP, they may well have formed a pact to attack the leader of the SNP at every opportunity in a joint attempt to take the Nationalists out of the equation before the big battle starts.

If they adopt this tactic, be it at their own peril. The Scots aren't daft. It will only reinforce the argument that the Libs and Labs are just tories, in yellow and red drag.

Hopefully, Nicola Sturgeon will be well prepared and armed for her playground rendezvous with Dave & his public schoolboy gang. :wink:

Aye okay, my concerns were unfounded and everyone seemed to get a fair crack at the whip.
In my opinion, the ladies won. I was impressed by all three of them.

[Mikey09]

Aye okay, my concerns were unfounded and everyone seemed to get a fair crack at the whip.
In my opinion, the ladies won. I was impressed by all three of them.


The ladies won??! Sturgeon is currently serving Cameron, Miliband, Farage and Clegg's bawes to them on a plate..... :greengrin

[snooky]

The ladies won??! Sturgeon is currently serving Cameron, Miliband, Farage and Clegg's bawes to them on a plate..... :greengrin
Too late. Those guys have already Eton :greengrin

[capitals_finest]

Nicola is a dream of a leader. Cool as a cucumber and right to the point. :not worth

I was quite impressed with all the ladies to be honest. I think Milliband needs to give the hand a rest.

[overdrive]

:faf::faf::faf:

He is. Forget the content of what he says, he puts it over very well in a manner that will appeal to a lot of folk. Miliband has a look of insincerity on his face when he speaks on these things, the Green woman (who I thought was by far the worst on there) seemed very nervous and basically started every argument with "I agree with Nicola" and the less said about Clegg and Cameron the better. Sturgeon and the Welsh lady came across well.

My vote is wide open.

[Pete]

He is. Forget the content of what he says, he puts it over very well in a manner that will appeal to a lot of folk. Miliband has a look of insincerity on his face when he speaks on these things, the Green woman (who I thought was by far the worst on there) seemed very nervous and basically started every argument with "I agree with Nicola" and the less said about Clegg and Cameron the better. Sturgeon and the Welsh lady came across well.

My vote is wide open.

I only saw bits of it but what you say about Farage is spot on.

When a lot of people look at their ballot paper they see who they want to run the country. Labour = Miliband, Tories = Cameron etc...it's almost presidential.

Farage comes across as "one of the guys" and the one you'd want to go for a pint with. Couple this with the fact that he is a very confident, passionate orator and you have someone that a lot of people will relate to and trust.


I'm not sure I would want him running the country though. I've not read their manifesto but from what I'm led to believe it needs to be toned down slightly as it's on the verge of unworkable. The party is also beefed upped by mad people with agendas who have probably quit the sinking ship that is the BNP. It needs to grow up before it becomes even remotely electable.

[Chibs]

I only saw bits of it but what you say about Farage is spot on.

When a lot of people look at their ballot paper they see who they want to run the country. Labour = Miliband, Tories = Cameron etc...it's almost presidential.

Farage comes across as "one of the guys" and the one you'd want to go for a pint with. Couple this with the fact that he is a very confident, passionate orator and you have someone that a lot of people will relate to and trust.


I'm not sure I would want him running the country though. I've not read their manifesto but from what I'm led to believe it needs to be toned down slightly as it's on the verge of unworkable. The party is also beefed upped by mad people with agendas who have probably quit the sinking ship that is the BNP. It needs to grow up before it becomes even remotely electable.

You only saw bits of it yet post this utter crap.
If this is some sort of joke post and I've had a whoosh moment then I apologise.
If not and your post is what you genuinely believe then sir you are a Buffoon.

[Pete]

You only saw bits of it yet post this utter crap.
If this is some sort of joke post and I've had a whoosh moment then I apologise.
If not and your post is what you genuinely believe then sir you are a Buffoon.

I'm not talking specifically about how he came across in the debate, I'm talking about him in a general sense and the image he is trying to portray.

An observation other than a negative one is made about Farage and we get "utter crap" and "buffoon"? Calm down dear.

I don't actually know your opinion on UKIP but you might want to be careful about what accusations you fling because we don't want to contradict ourselves, do we?

[Colr]

Kinda getting the feeling Gove and his band of merry men are ****ting it re The SNP and the way Nicola Sturgeon is coming across in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. She went after Cameron and Miliband in that debate and basically just laughed at Farage.....:not worth

Why would they. SNP just divert left leening Labour seats to left leaning SNP seats. SNP will just support Labour so theirs no real change to the Tories chances. In fact, they can use it as a scare tactic to keep the English Tory vote where it is.rather than defecting to UKIP.

UKIP have been targeting Labour voters in traditional working class areas who have actually been affected by immigration and don't feel supported by Labour (remember Gordon Brown's biggotted woman). They may eat more into the Labour vote than is appreciated.

Together SNP and UKIP may help the Tories form a minority administration by keeping Labour seats low enough that they won't be the biggest party.

[Colr]

I only saw bits of it but what you say about Farage is spot on.

When a lot of people look at their ballot paper they see who they want to run the country. Labour = Miliband, Tories = Cameron etc...it's almost presidential.

Farage comes across as "one of the guys" and the one you'd want to go for a pint with. Couple this with the fact that he is a very confident, passionate orator and you have someone that a lot of people will relate to and trust.


I'm not sure I would want him running the country though. I've not read their manifesto but from what I'm led to believe it needs to be toned down slightly as it's on the verge of unworkable. The party is also beefed upped by mad people with agendas who have probably quit the sinking ship that is the BNP. It needs to grow up before it becomes even remotely electable.

The kind of people who held their noses and voted BNP in Essex and the Northeast a few years back due to their jobs being under cut by migrants will feel much more comfortable about voting UKIP.

[Colr]

Nicola is a dream of a leader. Cool as a cucumber and right to the point. :not worth



She has the privilage of being in a no lose positionas Clegg was in 2010. Ideal position for a TV debate. Its no wonder Cameron doesn't want to do many of them. THey're like being in a shooting gallery for the incumbant.

[Elephant Stone]

Nicola Sturgeon was 9/1 to win, gutted I didn't have a bigger slice of that, thought she was brilliant, but I suppose it's easy when you've got the best policies and have more integrity than most of the rest combined. The other women did good too but Sturgeon was the best, easily.

[hibsbollah]

She has the privilage of being in a no lose positionas Clegg was in 2010. Ideal position for a TV debate. Its no wonder Cameron doesn't want to do many of them. THey're like being in a shooting gallery for the incumbant.

The ability to answer questions well, appear calm and confident while mercilessly exposing your opponents weak points, have nothing to do with whether you are the incumbent or not. Its churlish not to give Sturgeon full credit.

Considering her lack of experience in that kind of debating environment, Natalie Bennett came out well too.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

You only saw bits of it yet post this utter crap.
If this is some sort of joke post and I've had a whoosh moment then I apologise.
If not and your post is what you genuinely believe then sir you are a Buffoon.

Its a popular view that Farage comes across as someone you'd have a pint with. Just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it invalid. He also comes across as quite genuine and I believe the words he speaks are a much truer reflection of what he believes than the others on the panel who'd generally throw in any irrelevant quip for a cheap round of applause. His popularity is partially due to the spin doctors and marketing that have turned people against mainstream politics in recent years (as well as free movement to Eastern Europe which nobody signed up for)

I thought Sturgeon won by a fair bit. Out the main 2, I thought Cameron came across a lot more Prime Ministerial and as the person who'd be most responsible with our hard earned tax (as does Osbourne vs Balls). Labour made a mess of it last time Milliband fell a long way short of convincing me they can be trusted again.

Nick Clegg had a bad night and I think he'll resign after the election. He didn't know where to position himself being naturally left of Labour and being in an Tory-led coalition. I'm surprised he's held on so long after the lying about tuition fees.

[Colr]

The ability to answer questions well, appear calm and confident while mercilessly exposing your opponents weak points, have nothing to do with whether you are the incumbent or not. Its churlish not to give Sturgeon full credit.

Considering her lack of experience in that kind of debating environment, Natalie Bennett came out well too.

Not churlish at all but fringe parties love this format. Sturgeon is a very good performer just a pity about her politics, really.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Its a popular view that Farage comes across as someone you'd have a pint with. Just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it invalid. He also comes across as quite genuine and I believe the words he speaks are a much truer reflection of what he believes than the others on the panel who'd generally throw in any irrelevant quip for a cheap round of applause. His popularity is partially due to the spin doctors and marketing that have turned people against mainstream politics in recent years (as well as free movement to Eastern Europe which nobody signed up for)

I thought Sturgeon won by a fair bit. Out the main 2, I thought Cameron came across a lot more Prime Ministerial and as the person who'd be most responsible with our hard earned tax (as does Osbourne vs Balls). Labour made a mess of it last time Milliband fell a long way short of convincing me they can be trusted again.

Nick Clegg had a bad night and I think he'll resign after the election. He didn't know where to position himself being naturally left of Labour and being in an Tory-led coalition. I'm surprised he's held on so long after the lying about tuition fees.

I thought the one about people with HIV coming here to use the NHS was definitely designed to get a reaction.

And there's no way I'd have a pint with Farage. I've spent my life avoiding bigoted bores in pubs.

[Hibbyradge]

I only saw bits of it but what you say about Farage is spot on.

When a lot of people look at their ballot paper they see who they want to run the country. Labour = Miliband, Tories = Cameron etc...it's almost presidential.

Farage comes across as "one of the guys" and the one you'd want to go for a pint with. Couple this with the fact that he is a very confident, passionate orator and you have someone that a lot of people will relate to and trust.


I'm not sure I would want him running the country though. I've not read their manifesto but from what I'm led to believe it needs to be toned down slightly as it's on the verge of unworkable. The party is also beefed upped by mad people with agendas who have probably quit the sinking ship that is the BNP. It needs to grow up before it becomes even remotely electable.

I wouldn't want to go for a pint with a racist.

[Hibbyradge]

And there's no way I'd have a pint with Farage. I've spent my life avoiding bigoted bores in pubs.

Beat me to it,

Again.

[hibsbollah]

Not churlish at all but fringe parties love this format. Sturgeon is a very good performer just a pity about her politics, really.

If by 'format', you mean the opportunity to debate with a big beast like Miliband or Cameron, yeah im sure they do love it. What is surprising is that despite a career of debating societies at Eton and Oxbridge, and a career of weekly exposures at PMQ, Cameron didnt simply wipe the floor with his opponents yesterday. To me, it clearly demonstrates that our ruling political class arent really very good at the things they are supposed to do for a living, and are there merely by accident of birth.

[hibsbollah]

I wouldn't want to go for a pint with a racist.

:agree: its oft repeated that 'whatever you think of his policies, Farage is 'one of us' and you at least you could have a pint with him'.

Well if I saw that swivel eyed loon in Robbies I'd be straight out of the door.

[Colr]

If by 'format', you mean the opportunity to debate with a big beast like Miliband or Cameron, yeah im sure they do love it. What is surprising is that despite a career of debating societies at Eton and Oxbridge, and a career of weekly exposures at PMQ, Cameron didnt simply wipe the floor with his opponents yesterday. To me, it clearly demonstrates that our ruling political class arent really very good at the things they are supposed to do for a living, and are there merely by accident of birth.

Yes, these debates always favour the underdog and the ones who are not in post. Underdog candidates always challenge incumbants to these type of debates. Its setting a bear trap. For example, Michale Hestletine talks about using this tactic in his biography when he was an outside candidate in his first election.

I agree with you point on the blandness and lack of true conviction from our crop of career politicians.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Beat me to it,

Again.

It's getting harder all the time - a Romanian has offered to do the job for half what I get paid.

[Pretty Boy]

I really don't get this idea about Farage being 'one of the lads' and 'the kind of guy you would want to have a beer with'.

He's probably the last person I'd want to have a pint with. A pompous, boring, self serving bigoted fool. No thanks. Then again as a Scot who broadly supports continued migration to our country on economic grounds, supports the EU as a concept if not always in practice, consider myself as someone who proudly leans to the left and who finds outdated racial prejudices offensive he probably wouldn't want to join me in the pub either.

[Colr]

I really don't get this idea about Farage being 'one of the lads' and 'the kind of guy you would want to have a beer with'.

He's probably the last person I'd want to have a pint with. A pompous, boring, self serving bigoted fool. No thanks. Then again as a Scot who broadly supports continued migration to our country on economic grounds, supports the EU as a concept if not always in practice, consider myself as someone who proudly leans to the left and who finds outdated racial prejudices offensive he probably wouldn't want to join me in the pub either.

I agree. He's a loadmouth boorish prat. If he was in the pub at all I'd probably find somewhere better to drink.

[hibsbollah]

Yes, these debates always favour the underdog and the ones who are not in post.

Im not sure thats always true. Upstart Kennedy wiped the floor with a famously sweaty Nixon, incumbent Reagan destroyed Walter Mondale and all other comers in the 80s, Romney beat up on Obama. I think its just down to performance on the day and how good you look on tv.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I thought the one about people with HIV coming here to use the NHS was definitely designed to get a reaction.

And there's no way I'd have a pint with Farage. I've spent my life avoiding bigoted bores in pubs.

I'd go for a pint with him. I don't agree with everything he says (or plan to vote for his party), but think it would be an interesting 20min. Compared to the others, I think it would be alot less than speaking with a PR machine.

The HIV thing was pretty distasteful and he could have thought of a better example. However, if we're spending £2bn (or whatever it is) on health tourism then it's reasonable to question it when you see things like this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11510637/War-Hero-forced-out-of-home-over-cost-of-care.html

I also don't really consider Farage a racist. Maybe some UKIP party member are, but I don't think he is. Nick Griffin is a racist (and hence laughed out of British politics), but I think euro-scepticism is a perfectly valid viewpoint.

[cabbageandribs1875]

A YouGov poll of 1,100 people gave a clear victory to the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, with 28%, followed by UKIP leader Nigel Farage on 20%, Mr Cameron on 18%, Mr Miliband on 15%, Mr Clegg on 10%, Green Party leader Natalie Bennett on 5% and Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood on 4%.


good stuff, although i think there's a mix up with the percentages of Miliband and Wood





:)

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'd go for a pint with him. I don't agree with everything he says (or plan to vote for his party), but think it would be an interesting 20min. Compared to the others, I think it would be alot less than speaking with a PR machine.

The HIV thing was pretty distasteful and he could have thought of a better example. However, if we're spending £2bn (or whatever it is) on health tourism then it's reasonable to question it when you see things like this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11510637/War-Hero-forced-out-of-home-over-cost-of-care.html

I also don't really consider Farage a racist. Maybe some UKIP party member are, but I don't think he is. Nick Griffin is a racist (and hence laughed out of British politics), but I think euro-scepticism is a perfectly valid viewpoint.

It probably played well with UKIP voters and potential voters.

I consider anybody who blames the financial mess and austerity on immigrants is a racist. If there aren't enough schools or hospitals to serve our tax payers, why not build them.

[Hibbyradge]

It's getting harder all the time - a Romanian has offered to do the job for half what I get paid.

Luxury.

[degenerated]

I thought exactly that as well, he looks almost deranged at times. I can't think of many people I'd like like to have a pint with less than the "pound shop Enoch Powell"
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/03/fe10604a5a295d6ea9ea762fda819eaf.jpg

[degenerated]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/england-strangely-drawn-to-terrifying-scottish-woman-2015040397044

Tee hee 😁

[Holmesdale Hibs]

It probably played well with UKIP voters and potential voters.

I consider anybody who blames the financial mess and austerity on immigrants is a racist. If there aren't enough schools or hospitals to serve our tax payers, why not build them.

I think you're exaggerating. If he said the above then it would be outright stupid. But he hasn't. Unless I'm missing something?

He said last night that we should have net migration of circa 50k and blamed the financial mess on Labour being reckless. Which is entirely different. Whether you agree with it or not, it isn't racist.

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/england-strangely-drawn-to-terrifying-scottish-woman-2015040397044

Tee hee 

:thumbsup:

[Moulin Yarns]

I really don't get this idea about Farage being 'one of the lads' and 'the kind of guy you would want to have a beer with'.

He's probably the last person I'd want to have a pint with. A pompous, boring, self serving bigoted fool. No thanks. Then again as a Scot who broadly supports continued migration to our country on economic grounds, supports the EU as a concept if not always in practice, consider myself as someone who proudly leans to the left and who finds outdated racial prejudices offensive he probably wouldn't want to join me in the pub either.

I saw a graphic that shows the working aged population based on low immigration versus high immigration. It showed that with low immigration the working age population flat-lines at best over the next 5 years. The working age population needs to rise if the country is to be able to pay for the services we all need.

You sound like you should be voting Green.:wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think you're exaggerating. If he said the above then it would be outright stupid. But he hasn't. Unless I'm missing something?

He said last night that we should have net migration of circa 50k and blamed the financial mess on Labour being reckless. Which is entirely different. Whether you agree with it or not, it isn't racist.

I've maybe got the wrong end of the stick. I thought UKIP said that immigration was putting a strain on services. Surely the answer is to provide more services.

[marinello59]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/england-strangely-drawn-to-terrifying-scottish-woman-2015040397044

Tee hee 

:greengrin

[EH6 Hibby]

I didn't get the chance to watch the debate last night. I'm watching now and I really can't understand how any Scottish person would want to vote for UKIP. Nigel Farage has shown several times that he is anti Scotland. He specifically said last night that he would cut Scotland's budget, I can only assume the people that have indicated their intention to vote UKIP are doing so on their policies on immigration and Europe because they're certainly not going to be good for Scotland.

[Stranraer]

Leanne Wood came across as quite robotic, Sturgeon did brilliantly and as much as it pains me to say it I think Ed did quite well. Question Time was a good laugh with Peter Hitchens playing Devil's Advocate.

[cabbageandribs1875]

more than 1200 new members joined the SNP in just a couple of hours during the debate, tis all good

[marinello59]

more than 1200 new members joined the SNP in just a couple of hours during the debate, tis all good

A remarkable response to a remarkable performance. By reassuring voters in the rest of the UK that she was going to work for the good of the whole UK at Westminster she will have gone a long way towards firming up her SNP support at home as well. I think Labour in Scotland lost a good few more votes last night.

[Phil D. Rolls]

A remarkable response to a remarkable performance. By reassuring voters in the rest of the UK that she was going to work for the good of the whole UK at Westminster she will have gone a long way towards firming up her SNP support at home as well. I think Labour in Scotland lost a good few more votes last night.

I think the thing people needed to hear was that the SNP are prepared to work within the current democratic process and are mindful of the needs of English voters who are disenchanted by the current system.

[ronaldo7]

This is Nicola getting a welcome home in Corstophine this morning. Truly a First Minister of the people. She skooshed it last night. Big Jim will have had his head in his hands last night.

14636

[ronaldo7]

more than 1200 new members joined the SNP in just a couple of hours during the debate, tis all good

2,022 members since last night's debate. Over 105,000 members now.:wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

2,022 members since last night's debate. Over 105,000 members now.:wink:

How many of them in England?

[Mr Grieves]

I'd go for a pint with him. I don't agree with everything he says (or plan to vote for his party), but think it would be an interesting 20min. Compared to the others, I think it would be alot less than speaking with a PR machine.

The HIV thing was pretty distasteful and he could have thought of a better example. However, if we're spending £2bn (or whatever it is) on health tourism then it's reasonable to question it when you see things like this - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11510637/War-Hero-forced-out-of-home-over-cost-of-care.html

I also don't really consider Farage a racist. Maybe some UKIP party member are, but I don't think he is. Nick Griffin is a racist (and hence laughed out of British politics), but I think euro-scepticism is a perfectly valid viewpoint.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/foreign-visitors-owe-nhs-2bn-factcheck/16194

The £2 billion for health tourism that Farage quoted appears to include migrant workers (who pay taxes), British expats (likely to have paid taxes) and EU nationals (British nationals get some free healthcare in other EU countries too).

His comment about sending English taxpayers money over Hadrians wall shows exactly what he thinks of us, and the HIV line made me cringe. The fact that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband didn't challenge his views just show's how weak they are.

[ronaldo7]

How many of them in England?

:dunno: But judging by last nights twitter storm, the Snp might start opening branch offices south of the border:wink:

[ronaldo7]

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/foreign-visitors-owe-nhs-2bn-factcheck/16194

The £2 billion for health tourism that Farage quoted appears to include migrant workers (who pay taxes), British expats (likely to have paid taxes) and EU nationals (British nationals get some free healthcare in other EU countries too).

His comment about sending English taxpayers money over Hadrians wall shows exactly what he thinks of us, and the HIV line made me cringe. The fact that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband didn't challenge his views just show's how weak they are.

Miliband decided to leave it until later when he tweeted this.

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/583740695288000512

Leader my arse.

[Mr Grieves]

And another thing, that's the last few weeks that there's been a discussion about the SNP on question time without any SNP representation on the panel. Seems a tad unfair....

[Moulin Yarns]

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/foreign-visitors-owe-nhs-2bn-factcheck/16194

The £2 billion for health tourism that Farage quoted appears to include migrant workers (who pay taxes), British expats (likely to have paid taxes) and EU nationals (British nationals get some free healthcare in other EU countries too).

His comment about sending English taxpayers money over Hadrians wall shows exactly what he thinks of us, and the HIV line made me cringe. The fact that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband didn't challenge his views just show's how weak they are.

I agree with UKIP on that one, let's stop sending taxes raised in Scotland over Hadrian's Wall. :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/foreign-visitors-owe-nhs-2bn-factcheck/16194

The £2 billion for health tourism that Farage quoted appears to include migrant workers (who pay taxes), British expats (likely to have paid taxes) and EU nationals (British nationals get some free healthcare in other EU countries too).

His comment about sending English taxpayers money over Hadrians wall shows exactly what he thinks of us, and the HIV line made me cringe. The fact that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband didn't challenge his views just show's how weak they are.

Tbh, Farage and the rest of them can make that statement as many times as they want. As long as there is someone there to answer like Sturgeon did last night.

All in all, the man looked out of his depth, this bloke in the pub act will only stand up to so much examination. I fancy that the right may adapt a new champion after the election, such as Goldsmith of the Tories who has been a lot of fascistic muttering about the fact that democracy doesn't work.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/foreign-visitors-owe-nhs-2bn-factcheck/16194

The £2 billion for health tourism that Farage quoted appears to include migrant workers (who pay taxes), British expats (likely to have paid taxes) and EU nationals (British nationals get some free healthcare in other EU countries too).

His comment about sending English taxpayers money over Hadrians wall shows exactly what he thinks of us, and the HIV line made me cringe. The fact that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband didn't challenge his views just show's how weak they are.

Doesn't surprise me the figure was misleading. In fact, I'd say 100% of the figures quoted last night were based on selective facts. Regardless of the figure, the fact we can't give our nurses a pay rise (or insert political gripe) yet make expensive treatment available to people who haven't contributed, is still a worthy of discussion. Using HIV as an example if extreme at one end, but pretending it's not an issue isn't right either

I think all Scot's will agree with your second paragraph and he's clearly written off Scotland voters. I'm not informed enough to know whether the Barnett formula is fair (I suspect very few have the figures, economic skills and impartial judgement to properly decide how much one part of the UK gets over another). I do know if I was English (and therefore part of his target audience) and had to pay £9k tuition fees, I'd probably find it a bit unfair.

Anyway, I don't even vote for UKIP so I'm not going to try and defend them any more. I just think it's lazy, and dare I say a bit ignorant, to dismiss people that support them as bigots (although I'm not saying you were doing this).

[Mr Grieves]

Miliband decided to leave it until later when he tweeted this.

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/583740695288000512

Leader my arse.
No doubt after discussing it with an advisor. Pathetic.

[Mr Grieves]

Doesn't surprise me the figure was misleading. In fact, I'd say 100% of the figures quoted last night were based on selective facts. Regardless of the figure, the fact we can't give our nurses a pay rise (or insert political gripe) yet make expensive treatment available to people who haven't contributed, is still a worthy of discussion. Using HIV as an example if extreme at one end, but pretending it's not an issue isn't right either

I think all Scot's will agree with your second paragraph and he's clearly written off Scotland voters. I'm not informed enough to know whether the Barnett formula is fair (I suspect very few have the figures, economic skills and impartial judgement to properly decide how much one part of the UK gets over another). I do know if I was English (and therefore part of his target audience) and had to pay £9k tuition fees, I'd probably find it a bit unfair.

Anyway, I don't even vote for UKIP so I'm not going to try and defend them any more. I just think it's lazy, and dare I say a bit ignorant, to dismiss people that support them as bigots (although I'm not saying you were doing this).
I agree that they're all selective with their information but I'm targeting Farage as his lies are a lot more dangerous than the others. As for HIV health tourism is it really an issue?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Q7AeVdGeIZLYaoSHgugP&url=http://www.nat.org.uk/media/Files/Publications/Oc-2008-The-Myth-of-HIV-Health-Tourism.pdf&ved=0CCEQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEP9Mbl0ZLguHdA2kPPHQGZtoWcWQ&sig2=mCmLK9_uZ65KPdGEsYlPiw

[ACLeith]

Farage - a "man of the people" - that's a laugh! Educated at public school, spent all his life as a Commodities Dealer in the City before becoming a full time politician. It takes more than a photo-op in a pub with a pint to be a people's man, those that are don't have to try.

David Coburn, their MEP in Scotland disgraced himself with his racist comments recently and their chair, Thackeray, is like-minded with links to the SDL and EDL. Some quotes from him -

"Roman Catholicism was based on "fascist ideology" and complained of a "suffocating culture of anti-loyalism" in Scotland's largest city.
"There's more chance of winning the lottery two weeks running than getting an openly Rangers-supporting MSP into the chamber of the institutionally catholicised pretendy parliament"
"No wonder the blue half of my city say G.C.C actually stands for the Glasgow Celtic Council for Gays Catholics Communists eh. NS!"

No wonder one of their candidates at the GE recently resigned from the party citing "sectarian, racist filth" being prevalent.

Simply the BNP in suits and ties.

[snooky]

Miliband decided to leave it until later when he tweeted this.

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/583740695288000512

Leader my arse.

As they say on the stage, Ed, timing is everything.
If you miss your cue for an obvious response in a debate, best let it go.
Spouting it out in the aftermath gives the impression that you're not as sharp as other tools in the box.


And if you want to see how ignorant Mr Ed can be, watch the last few seconds of this debate video.
The Red Tory makes a bee-line to shake hands with Cameron and totally blanks the outstretched hand of Nicola Sturgeon. It speaks volumes about the man's motives and lack of class.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32172445

[Pete]

Farage - a "man of the people" - that's a laugh! Educated at public school, spent all his life as a Commodities Dealer in the City before becoming a full time politician. It takes more than a photo-op in a pub with a pint to be a people's man, those that are don't have to try.

To be fair he's technically correct when he says he's had a "proper job".

You've got to laugh at the way his PR machine tries to make out that he's a man who served his time down a pit or something :tee hee:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Farage - a "man of the people" - that's a laugh! Educated at public school, spent all his life as a Commodities Dealer in the City before becoming a full time politician. It takes more than a photo-op in a pub with a pint to be a people's man, those that are don't have to try.

David Coburn, their MEP in Scotland disgraced himself with his racist comments recently and their chair, Thackeray, is like-minded with links to the SDL and EDL. Some quotes from him -

"Roman Catholicism was based on "fascist ideology" and complained of a "suffocating culture of anti-loyalism" in Scotland's largest city.
"There's more chance of winning the lottery two weeks running than getting an openly Rangers-supporting MSP into the chamber of the institutionally catholicised pretendy parliament"
"No wonder the blue half of my city say G.C.C actually stands for the Glasgow Celtic Council for Gays Catholics Communists eh. NS!"

No wonder one of their candidates at the GE recently resigned from the party citing "sectarian, racist filth" being prevalent.

Simply the BNP in suits and ties.

You sometimes wonder if Coburn really is gay? I'd no doubt about him being a hun, but he is so anti gay - its like he hates himself.

Quite right about the Vatican and Fascism though. :offski:

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/england-strangely-drawn-to-terrifying-scottish-woman-2015040397044

Tee hee 

:greengrin

[woodythehibee]

14637

[ronaldo7]

It seems the Tory press have now got a new kid on the block to have a dig at. Trouble is, she's a canny operator. The story was de-bunked in 90 minutes.

Some of the Scottish Labour party office bearers need to take a good look in the mirror.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/03/telegraph-attacks-sturgeon-claiming-snp-leader-secretly-wants-tory-win_n_7001974.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

https://storify.com/theSNP/telegraph-and-the-scottish-labour

[Chibs]

It seems the Tory press have now got a new kid on the block to have a dig at. Trouble is, she's a canny operator. The story was de-bunked in 90 minutes.

Some of the Scottish Labour party office bearers need to take a good look in the mirror.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/03/telegraph-attacks-sturgeon-claiming-snp-leader-secretly-wants-tory-win_n_7001974.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

https://storify.com/theSNP/telegraph-and-the-scottish-labour

Why am I not surprised with this.
The fourth estate should hang their heads in shame as should the scottish labour party.

[JimBHibees]

Quelle surprise the standard of journalism in this country really couldn't be any lower. Was the telegraph the paper that was giving the Scottish editor a bonus for a No vote last year.

What kind of country do we really live in?

[Colr]

I didn't get the chance to watch the debate last night. I'm watching now and I really can't understand how any Scottish person would want to vote for UKIP. Nigel Farage has shown several times that he is anti Scotland. He specifically said last night that he would cut Scotland's budget, I can only assume the people that have indicated their intention to vote UKIP are doing so on their policies on immigration and Europe because they're certainly not going to be good for Scotland.

Cutting state budgets can be seen as a good thing. Its the money the government takes from your wages after all ( assuming that you work and are not a public servant).

[Colr]

Miliband decided to leave it until later when he tweeted this.

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/583740695288000512

Leader my arse.

Was probably an intern on zero hours from his office staff that tweeted it for him.

[Colr]

How many of them in England?

Maybe they should become a UK party as they won't get another independence vote.

[Moulin Yarns]

Maybe they should become a UK party as they won't get another independence vote.


:rolleyes:

[degenerated]

Why am I not surprised with this.
The fourth estate should hang their heads in shame as should the scottish labour party.
This is a tried and tested trick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter

It's got John mcternan written all over it. Scottish Labour started tweeting this in sync last night, almost as if it was coordinated. Now they're all busy deleting it from their collective timelines.

The only ones that will benefit from this farce will be the SNP..

[EH6 Hibby]

Cutting state budgets can be seen as a good thing. Its the money the government takes from your wages after all ( assuming that you work and are not a public servant).

Scotland already receives less back than it pays in to the tax system, Farage is suggesting we should receive less still.

Budgets have already been cut and it's making no difference except hitting the most vulnerable. If anything, it seems to be causing more work for less people. That certainly is the case in my department. I work in the council in Health and Social care and people don't suddenly stop needing to go into care because there's no money, and less staff to look after them.

My department alone has lost about 8/9 people in the last few years that have not been replaced, the staff that are still here are expected to deal with their work whilst having had a massive wage rise of 3% over the last 5 years.

[Colr]

Scotland already receives less back than it pays in to the tax system, Farage is suggesting we should receive less still.

Budgets have already been cut and it's making no difference except hitting the most vulnerable. If anything, it seems to be causing more work for less people. That certainly is the case in my department. I work in the council in Health and Social care and people don't suddenly stop needing to go into care because there's no money, and less staff to look after them.

My department alone has lost about 8/9 people in the last few years that have not been replaced, the staff that are still here are expected to deal with their work whilst having had a massive wage rise of 3% over the last 5 years.

So does London. We're all paying for the poverty belts of the North East, Wales and NI all of which live on bloated public sectors.

We can only have the public sector we can afford and its far too bloated as it is. The public sector does too much.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cutting state budgets can be seen as a good thing. Its the money the government takes from your wages after all ( assuming that you work and are not a public servant).

How can it be a good thing, if by cutting budgets people are made redundant? That costs the taxpayer money, in redundancy costs , ongoing benefits and loss of PAYE, NI and VAT, not to mention the knock-on effect on the wider economy.

[EH6 Hibby]

So does London. We're all paying for the poverty belts of the North East, Wales and NI all of which live on bloated public sectors.

We can only have the public sector we can afford and its far too bloated as it is. The public sector does too much.

Cutting budgets isn't going to help the poverty belts though. Only investing in education and jobs will do that. All cutting budgets is going to do is make the poverty belts worse.

[Colr]

How can it be a good thing, if by cutting budgets people are made redundant? That costs the taxpayer money, in redundancy costs , ongoing benefits and loss of PAYE, NI and VAT, not to mention the knock-on effect on the wider economy.

There are jobs outside the public sector and they generate money rather than just taking it from people who make it and spending it on their behalf.

[Colr]

Cutting budgets isn't going to help the poverty belts though. Only investing in education and jobs will do that. All cutting budgets is going to do is make the poverty belts worse.

Spend the money on companies investing jobs and equipment. That's the idea!

[CropleyWasGod]

There are jobs outside the public sector and they generate money rather than just taking it from people who make it and spending it on their behalf.
That would make sense if all the people you want to make redundant were able to walk into jobs in the private sector.

[lord bunberry]

Spend the money on companies investing jobs and equipment. That's the idea!
What if you're unable to work? Disability hasn't dropped along with the budget cuts. It is utterly shameful to cut the top rate of income tax whilst denying the most vulnerable in our society the very basic care they need.
its no wonder the people in England want to vote for Nicola Sturgeon. I just wish they would realise that the Green Party is the only party of the left.

[Colr]

That would make sense if all the people you want to make redundant were able to walk into jobs in the private sector.

They can. Its a disgrace if we've disabled people to the extant that they are utterly unable to do anything economically productive. Is it really an economic plan to base an economy on expanding the public sector?

Its like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up by the handle!

[Colr]

What if you're unable to work? Disability hasn't dropped along with the budget cuts.

Its hardly the basis of an economic strategy to piss millions up the wall on the basis of the very few you're referring to. Shroud waving is rather typical of the left.

[CropleyWasGod]

They can. Its a disgrace if we've disabled people to the extant that they are utterly unable to do anything economically productive. Is it really an economic plan to base an economy on expanding the public sector?

Its like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up by the handle!
I'm not so sure that they can.

However, having people in jobs, in any sector, is economically productive. Those jobs contribute tax and NI. They also give the employees spending power, which contributes VAT as well as helping the wider economy.

[Moulin Yarns]

So does London. We're all paying for the poverty belts of the North East, Wales and NI all of which live on bloated public sectors.

We can only have the public sector we can afford and its far too bloated as it is. The public sector does too much.
My gob is well and truly smacked.

[lord bunberry]

Its hardly the basis of an economic strategy to piss millions up the wall on the basis of the very few you're referring to. Shroud waving is rather typical of the left.
And if you're disabled you really care about economic policy! It's not pissing money against the wall it's making sure that everyone in our country has the chance to make a life for themselves. Why do we have to follow what the markets tell us? Everyday that passes I feel myself more and more thinking that the greens are right. I'm voting snp this time but that might change at Holyrood

[Moulin Yarns]

There are jobs outside the public sector and they generate money rather than just taking it from people who make it and spending it on their behalf.

My job in local government is a legal requirement. They can't give my post to the private sector.

[EH6 Hibby]

There are jobs outside the public sector and they generate money rather than just taking it from people who make it and spending it on their behalf.

Public sector jobs are essential to the country. You'd no doubt be the first to complain that your bins weren't emptied or such like. And God forbid you or any of your family have an accident or illness that then means you need care. These services are already stretched and with the savings needed over the next 3 years, it's going to get worse.

Social workers are supposed to have around 8 cases but now have on average 34 at the moment.

[snooky]

Why am I not surprised with this.
The fourth estate should hang their heads in shame as should the scottish labour party.

The discussing feature about this whole smear campaign is the fact that both Labour and the Tories are more concerned with trying to score political points than coming out and condemning the libellous action of the Telegraph.
They really are stuck in gutter politics that lot. As the old say goes two cheeks of the same derriere

[Future17]

They can. Its a disgrace if we've disabled people to the extant that they are utterly unable to do anything economically productive. Is it really an economic plan to base an economy on expanding the public sector?

Its like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up by the handle!

I'm confused. Are you suggesting the private sector would take over the roles which currently employ people in the public sector? If so, how would this be funded? Surely it would still be predominantly funded by public money, with the added burden of having to create a profit for those running the businesses?

Or are you suggesting that something is blocking the creation of hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs? If so, can you be specific as to what the cause of this actually is?

[Alex Trager]

http://youtu.be/DtgDCV8iIHk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Public sector jobs are essential to the country. You'd no doubt be the first to complain that your bins weren't emptied or such like. And God forbid you or any of your family have an accident or illness that then means you need care. These services are already stretched and with the savings needed over the next 3 years, it's going to get worse.

Social workers are supposed to have around 8 cases but now have on average 34 at the moment.

Cutting the public sector doesn't necessarily mean making bin men and nurses redundant. The country is losing money so it makes sense to be careful how we spend it. There are some extremely overpaid civil servants doing much jobs that are less important than teaching children or driving buses and it's right to question whether these give value to the tax payer.

This is one example I found from a quick google search - http://news.sky.com/story/1103956/useless-public-sector-projects-cost-uk-120bn - although I'm sure there are plenty others. I'd say most public sector jobs are essential to this country, but I don't have a problem cutting positions if they do not provide value for money.

[Hibrandenburg]

Aye okay, my concerns were unfounded and everyone seemed to get a fair crack at the whip.
In my opinion, the ladies won. I was impressed by all three of them.

The stitch-up just came later from the Tory press.

[EH6 Hibby]

Cutting the public sector doesn't necessarily mean making bin men and nurses redundant. The country is losing money so it makes sense to be careful how we spend it. There are some extremely overpaid civil servants doing much jobs that are less important than teaching children or driving buses and it's right to question whether these give value to the tax payer.

This is one example I found from a quick google search - http://news.sky.com/story/1103956/useless-public-sector-projects-cost-uk-120bn - although I'm sure there are plenty others. I'd say most public sector jobs are essential to this country, but I don't have a problem cutting positions if they do not provide value for money.

The problem is, when the cuts happen, it's not these people that lose out because they're the ones making the decisions.

My section alone is operating on around half the staff we had four years ago and we were never exactly right up to date back then.

[Chibs]

http://youtu.be/DtgDCV8iIHk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with every single word he says.
I truly despair for democracy.

[snooky]

I agree with every single word he says.
I truly despair for democracy.

:agree: We all need to waken up from "The Big Sleep".

[Chibs]

:agree: We all need to waken up from "The Big Sleep".

Not quite sure what you are trying to allude to with "The Big Sleep"
However I do agree with "we all need to waken up".