Football Fan receives Banning Order for Racial Abuse

[Keith_M]

Football Fan fined and given Banning Order after shouting racist comments at match against PTFC, just over a year ago.


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-football-fan-banned-over-racial-abuse-1-3735526




I for one am happy that this was taken seriously and would like to see all Fans that making Bigoted or Sectarian comments, no matter which Club they support, given similar banning orders.

:aok:

[J-C]

Football Fan fined and given Banning Order after shouting racist comments at match against PTFC, just over a year ago.


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-football-fan-banned-over-racial-abuse-1-3735526




I for one am happy that this was taken seriously and would like to see all Fans that making Bigoted or Sectarian comments, no matter which Club they support, given similar banning orders.

:aok:


No need for anything like this in today's society, good to see someone done something about it for a change, just a pity it's tarnished the name of Hibernian FC though.

[Pretty Boy]

Good that action has been taken on this incident, no sympathy for folk who do this kind of thing.

I await the 3500 banning orders that are surely on the way for the Rangers fans who attended ER the other week.

[CockneyRebel]

Football Fan fined and given Banning Order after shouting racist comments at match against PTFC, just over a year ago.


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-football-fan-banned-over-racial-abuse-1-3735526




I for one am happy that this was taken seriously and would like to see all Fans that making Bigoted or Sectarian comments, no matter which Club they support, given similar banning orders.

:aok:

Partick Thistle? What sort of comments does this refer too?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good that action has been taken on this incident, no sympathy for folk who do this kind of thing.

I await the 3500 banning orders that are surely on the way for the Rangers fans who attended ER the other week.

Exactly. ALL who are involved in bigoted behaviour on the grounds of race, religion, sexuality, nationality should be made unwelcome, regardless of the team they support. We have a double standard whereby some forms of prejudice are deemed unacceptable, but sectarianism (the biggest problem in Scottish football) is ignored all too often.

[theonlywayisup]

PLEASE read it again. Where does it say he is a Hibs fan?


Football Fan fined and given Banning Order after shouting racist comments at match against PTFC, just over a year ago.


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/edinburgh-football-fan-banned-over-racial-abuse-1-3735526




I for one am happy that this was taken seriously and would like to see all Fans that making Bigoted or Sectarian comments, no matter which Club they support, given similar banning orders.

:aok:

BBC website says he is a Partick thistle fan!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32145555

[--------]

"Speaking following sentencing Stephen Ferguson, Football Liaison Prosecutor for the West of Scotland, said: 'McCormack chose to shout racially offensive comments in a stand busy with families and young people. Police and prosecutors take such offences very seriously and will continue to do all we can to bring those who persist in committing them to justice.'”

Does this imply that if he had been in a stand populated by guys in their 30's and 40's all shouting the same sort of stuff they would have ignored him?

Like they do with the stuff that comes out of our South Stand when certain 'big' teams come to Easter Road?

[NAE NOOKIE]

If he is a Hibby good riddance to bad rubbish ... we don't need or want this kind of crap in our support.

[theonlywayisup]

If he is a Hibby good riddance to bad rubbish ... we don't need or want this kind of crap in our support.

He is not a Hibs fan, he is a Thistle fan!

[Onceinawhile]

That reporting by the een is horribly misleading. No doubt done on purpose as "Partick thistle fan given ban" wouldn't really make copy in Edinburgh!

[Hibs History]

PLEASE read it again. Where does it say he is a Hibs fan?



BBC website says he is a Partick thistle fan!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32145555

Another reason not to read the EEN - online or in print

Jambo colouring book

[Hibernia&Alba]

Another reason not to read the EEN - online or in print

Jambo colouring book

It's a Hearts fanzine, IMO. Its joy after the cup final from hell was a disgrace.

[NAE NOOKIE]

He is not a Hibs fan, he is a Thistle fan!

No sign of who he supports in the article ......... the EEN want shooting if the know he isn't a Hibs fan, anybody reading it is going to think Hibs fan, otherwise why print the story ... they should be made to clarify it.

[Judas Iscariot]

I read it on the Jambo comic and it did read like he was a Hibby...

Farce of a "paper"

[emerald green]

The headline on the article on the EEN website says "Edinburgh football fan banned over racial abuse".

It goes on to say "An Edinburgh football fan has been banned from attending matches for 2 years & fined for racist abuse at a Hibs game."

He was arrested at a Partick Thistle v Hibs game at Firhill the article says. From all that I assumed the bloke was a Hibs fan. Why call him an "Edinburgh football fan" otherwise?

[Sir David Gray]

The headline on the article on the EEN website says "Edinburgh football fan banned over racial abuse".

It goes on to say "An Edinburgh football fan has been banned from attending matches for 2 years & fined for racist abuse at a Hibs game."

He was arrested at a Partick Thistle v Hibs game at Firhill the article says. From all that I assumed the bloke was a Hibs fan. Why call him an "Edinburgh football fan" otherwise?

Partick Thistle fan from Edinburgh? :dunno:

It's good that this is being taken seriously, it will be good to hear about the banning orders being handed out at Parkhead and Ibrox every other week.

Look forward to reading about that.

[Canongatehibs]

Maryhill man

[Bostonhibby]

Glad he got caught and banned - Hibs are rightly against this sort of stuff too - they should get straight onto Scotlands Finest and request the same sharped eared and eagle eyed officers for the the rangers games in particular - you never know what they might hear if they try.

[Kato]

Another reason not to read the EEN - online or in print

Jambo colouring book

So many reasons not to buy this rag.

They've just added another one.

[liamh2202]

Tin hat on here but why are people geting hooked up on the rangers one? In my eyes there is a difference abusing someone directly and signing their party songs. Why do people even get upset about some painting on a wall or an orange scarf his auld man gave him... Just my opinion but I've got more things in my life to worry about than that..

[Geo_1875]

Tin hat on here but why are people geting hooked up on the rangers one? In my eyes there is a difference abusing someone directly and signing their party songs. Why do people even get upset about some painting on a wall or an orange scarf his auld man gave him... Just my opinion but I've got more things in my life to worry about than that..

3,500 people singing a song that is offensive to me and my religion is less odious than 1 man shouting abuse at a player?

[lyonhibs]

3,500 people singing a song that is offensive to me and my religion is less odious than 1 man shouting abuse at a player?

If you are really, genuinely a practicing Catholic then that's a bit different.

I'd imagine - however . that most of any given football crowd do not actively practice any particular religion as that's the trend in terms of actual weekly participation at Church/Chapel/Kirk/whatever these days and so the Rangers "Party tunes" don't particularly bother me, more make me pity the cretins singing them.


And let's be honest, 3,500 Rangers fans were not aiming their song at you specifically. You could have Rangers playing in a field in East Dumbartonshire against a starting XI comprised of farm animals and these cretins would still sing their songs even if the home attendance was exactly zip.

[Bostonhibby]

If you are really, genuinely a practicing Catholic then that's a bit different.

I'd imagine - however . that most of any given football crowd do not actively practice any particular religion as that's the trend in terms of actual weekly participation at Church/Chapel/Kirk/whatever these days and so the Rangers "Party tunes" don't particularly bother me, more make me pity the cretins singing them.


And let's be honest, 3,500 Rangers fans were not aiming their song at you specifically. You could have Rangers playing in a field in East Dumbartonshire against a starting XI comprised of farm animals and these cretins would still sing their songs even if the home attendance was exactly zip.

To be honest I can't see the farm animals agreeing to be in the same vicinity - they might agree to put a team up against them on University Challenge where the farm animals would have a definite advantage but their team would have to stick to well known ones like chicken cow and pig otherwise the rangers will feel victimised again if they don't know what the animals are.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If you are really, genuinely a practicing Catholic then that's a bit different.

I'd imagine - however . that most of any given football crowd do not actively practice any particular religion as that's the trend in terms of actual weekly participation at Church/Chapel/Kirk/whatever these days and so the Rangers "Party tunes" don't particularly bother me, more make me pity the cretins singing them.


And let's be honest, 3,500 Rangers fans were not aiming their song at you specifically. You could have Rangers playing in a field in East Dumbartonshire against a starting XI comprised of farm animals and these cretins would still sing their songs even if the home attendance was exactly zip.

I think the point is that folk should be offended by anything like anti Catholic / Protestant songs, racism, homophobia or whatever. I'm not a Catholic, a member of any ethnic minority or gay for that matter.... but if folk like me don't make clear our disapproval of stuff like that then the idiots who perpetuate it are going to think its ok keep doing it.

[Geo_1875]

If you are really, genuinely a practicing Catholic then that's a bit different.

I'd imagine - however . that most of any given football crowd do not actively practice any particular religion as that's the trend in terms of actual weekly participation at Church/Chapel/Kirk/whatever these days and so the Rangers "Party tunes" don't particularly bother me, more make me pity the cretins singing them.


And let's be honest, 3,500 Rangers fans were not aiming their song at you specifically. You could have Rangers playing in a field in East Dumbartonshire against a starting XI comprised of farm animals and these cretins would still sing their songs even if the home attendance was exactly zip.

So Sparky singing a song about refugees in a pub with no refugees present shouldn't have been acted upon? It's ok to make disparaging remarks about blacks or gays if there are none in the room? It's easy not to be offended if deep down you hold the same beliefs.

[J-C]

So Sparky singing a song about refugees in a pub with no refugees present shouldn't have been acted upon? It's ok to make disparaging remarks about blacks or gays if there are none in the room? It's easy not to be offended if deep down you hold the same beliefs.


Rangers signing anti Catholic songs is not racist, seeing as Catholicism is not a race of people, but signing about someone from another country being a refugee is racist as you are decrying his/her race of people.

[Keith_M]

As the OP, and having originally said it was a Hibs Fan, I can only apologise and state in my defence that it's how the article (although not stating it specifically) portrayed him.

It said Edinburgh Football Fan at recent Hibs game against Partick Thistle.


Leaving aside the fact it appears he's not even from Edinburgh after all, you can see from that it's how they were portraying it.




I'm just glad I'm not paranoid....................


:paranoid:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Rangers signing anti Catholic songs is not racist, seeing as Catholicism is not a race of people, but signing about someone from another country being a refugee is racist as you are decrying his/her race of people.

I think the refugee song is stupid. But the Czechs aren't a race and neither are refugees, so how it equates to racism is beyond me.

[Keith_M]

I think the refugee song is stupid. But the Czechs aren't a race and neither are refugees, so how it equates to racism is beyond me.


I think the word 'racism' is used in a wider context than its original meaning, now referring to nationality as well. I think this is fair enough as it's just as offensive.


Also, if you want to be really pedantic about it, Czechs are mostly of Slavic origin as opposed to our mixed Celtic, Norse & Germanic origins, so you could actually apply the original meaning of 'race' in this instance as well.

[J-C]

I think the refugee song is stupid. But the Czechs aren't a race and neither are refugees, so how it equates to racism is beyond me.


the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)), colour, descent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_heritage), or national or ethnic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity) origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights) and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#cite_note-25)

[PatHead]

If you are really, genuinely a practicing Catholic then that's a bit different.

I'd imagine - however . that most of any given football crowd do not actively practice any particular religion as that's the trend in terms of actual weekly participation at Church/Chapel/Kirk/whatever these days and so the Rangers "Party tunes" don't particularly bother me, more make me pity the cretins singing them.


And let's be honest, 3,500 Rangers fans were not aiming their song at you specifically. You could have Rangers playing in a field in East Dumbartonshire against a starting XI comprised of farm animals and these cretins would still sing their songs even if the home attendance was exactly zip.

Couldn't disagree with your post more and am highly offended by your comments.

From what you are saying

1 it is okay to decry Catholics as you aren't one.
2 It doesn't matter what you are singing as long as you don't aim these songs at any particular person.
3 It is okay to sing homophobic songs at the ground as long as you don't aim that at any particular individual?

Also why should religious bigotry be seen as less than a crime than racial bigotry?

[lyonhibs]

So Sparky singing a song about refugees in a pub with no refugees present shouldn't have been acted upon? It's ok to make disparaging remarks about blacks or gays if there are none in the room? It's easy not to be offended if deep down you hold the same beliefs.

Hold on hold on. For me, racism, homophobia, anti-refugeeism (or whatever) are an entirely different kettle of fish to 2 different religious "factions " (even though I'd bet most have never seen the inside of their respective place of worship, at least not regularly) having a bash at each other.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Couldn't disagree with your post more and am highly offended by your comments.

From what you are saying

1 it is okay to decry Catholics as you aren't one.
2 It doesn't matter what you are singing as long as you don't aim these songs at any particular person.
3 It is okay to sing homophobic songs at the ground as long as you don't aim that at any particular individual?

Also why should religious bigotry be seen as less than a crime than racial bigotry?

Because religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Anything that mocks it is to be encouraged.

[surreyhibbie]

Because religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Anything that mocks it is to be encouraged.


Couldn't agree more. :agree:

[PatHead]

Because religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Anything that mocks it is to be encouraged.

So you think it is okay to have a go at someone for their beliefs?

I am not debating whether religion is good or bad but your "right" to mock people who hold different beliefs to yourself. If you do you are every bit as bad as anyone who mocks anyone for their sexuality,disability, race or colour as well.

Just because you don't agree with the beliefs of someone does not mean they do not have feelings or get hurt at jibes made at them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So you think it is okay to have a go at someone for their beliefs?

I am not debating whether religion is good or bad but your "right" to mock people who hold different beliefs to yourself. If you do you are every bit as bad as anyone who mocks anyone for their sexuality,disability, race or colour as well.

Just because you don't agree with the beliefs of someone does not mean they do not have feelings or get hurt at jibes made at them.

I think if the beliefs are strong enough, they can withstand a bit of mocking. I'm sure Jesus had to put up with quite a bit of that.

What I don't agree with is humiliating people. There is a fine line between that and mocking.

Sticks and stones etc.

[PatHead]

Couldn't agree more. :agree:

Same to you.

[J-C]

So you think it is okay to have a go at someone for their beliefs?

I am not debating whether religion is good or bad but your "right" to mock people who hold different beliefs to yourself. If you do you are every bit as bad as anyone who mocks anyone for their sexuality,disability, race or colour as well.

Just because you don't agree with the beliefs of someone does not mean they do not have feelings or get hurt at jibes made at them.


Of course it's good to have a go as you put it at someones beliefs especially if you do not believe in them. All religions have proven nothing throughout history, they are all a bunch of heresay and folklore started up to try and explain what the world was at the time. Fast forward a few thoudand years and we as a race of animals understand and can explain a hell of a lot more, so in turn we question it even more.

[weonlywon6-2]

I totally agree with the actions taken but is this not one rule for some and different for others

Don't see anybody being taken out the crowd when old squirm are playing

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's a world of difference between questioning or mocking and the incitement of hatred on the basis of holding different beliefs. All ideologies should be scrutinized, but it can be done with respect, and we must remember that disagreeing with somebody's view of the world is very different from hating that somebody on a personal level because of their views and then basing ones attitude towards them solely upon their religion, which is but one facet of the whole person. I'm atheist myself, but don't have the right to incite hatred towards individuals who have faith, though I should be free to criticize the faith itself.

[Eyrie]

There's a world of difference between questioning or mocking and the incitement of hatred on the basis of holding different beliefs. All ideologies should be scrutinized, but it can be done with respect, and we must remember that disagreeing with somebody's view of the world is very different from hating that somebody on a personal level because of their views and then basing ones attitude towards them solely upon their religion, which is but one facet of the whole person. I'm atheist myself, but don't have the right to incite hatred towards individuals who have faith, though I should be free to criticize the faith itself.

Well said.

Tolerance and respect are necessary, or where do you draw the line on what can said or done to those you disagree with?

[Scott Allan Key]

I think if the beliefs are strong enough, they can withstand a bit of mocking. I'm sure Jesus had to put up with quite a bit of that.

What I don't agree with is humiliating people. There is a fine line between that and mocking.

Sticks and stones etc.

One leads to the other. If one has freedom to say whatever one wants because there is no moral arbiter, ie God, who draws the line in the acceptability of mocking, insults or dehumanization?An argument like a rudderless ship if you ask me.

Personally, I don't think it is okay to 'mock' a religion by being 'up to the necks' in the blood of those being born into or practising it. It makes people very blase and passive to real crimes against the person of that religion. No better than mocking a person for race, gender, sexuality IMHO.

Deliberately insulting rather than challenging man-made aspects or fallacious aspects of a belief is just being an arse. Touche against me.

[Beefster]

So you think it is okay to have a go at someone for their beliefs?

I am not debating whether religion is good or bad but your "right" to mock people who hold different beliefs to yourself. If you do you are every bit as bad as anyone who mocks anyone for their sexuality,disability, race or colour as well.

Just because you don't agree with the beliefs of someone does not mean they do not have feelings or get hurt at jibes made at them.

Yes, it is absolutely fine to mock or challenge based on beliefs. Saying otherwise would mean that we had racists, bigots or folk who believe in fairies who live in the hedge claiming that they shouldn't be challenged because 'it's what they believe'. Mocking is entirely different to sectarianism though.

Beliefs are a choice. Sexuality, disability and race aren't.

For context, I'm a Catholic.

[lyonhibs]

Yes, it is absolutely fine to mock or challenge based on beliefs. Saying otherwise would mean that we had racists, bigots or folk who believe in fairies who live in the hedge claiming that they shouldn't be challenged because 'it's what they believe'. Mocking is entirely different to sectarianism though.

Beliefs are a choice. Sexuality, disability and race aren't.

For context, I'm a Catholic.

This. Absolutely this. :agree:

[Keith_M]

There's been quite a lot of chat on this thread on the right to question or mock other people's religion, in the context of sectarian songs in Football Stadiums.

I can't help thinking this is a very misleading argument, as the kind of songs sung by Rangers Fans certainly cannot be passed of as merely questioning or even mocking other people's religions.........They actually mention being 'up to their knees'* in the blood of followers of another religion!


I'm not Roman Catholic, so why should I care? Well, I'm not Black or Jewish either but that doesn't stop me being discusted by Racists and Anti-Semites.





* Before anyone mentions it, I'm fully aware that their use of the word 'Fenian' is factually innacurate to describe Roman Catholics, but that is how they mean it to be interpreted, so that is the context in which it should be taken.

[liamh2202]

There's been quite a lot of chat on this thread on the right to question or mock other people's religion, in the context of sectarian songs in Football Stadiums.

I can't help thinking this is a very misleading argument, as the kind of songs sung by Rangers Fans certainly cannot be passed of as merely questioning or even mocking other people's religions.........They actually mention being 'up to their knees'* in the blood of followers of another religion!


I'm not Roman Catholic, so why should I care? Well, I'm not Black or Jewish either but that doesn't stop me being discusted by Racists and Anti-Semites.





* Before anyone mentions it, I'm fully aware that their use of the word 'Fenian' is factually innacurate to describe Roman Catholics, but that is how they mean it to be interpreted, so that is the context in which it should be taken.

I just think that people take what's sung at football matches too serious.. Personal abuse about someone's race etc in my opinion is not the same as someone singing about religion. Which by the way our support still does occasionally with the never be mastered line. Is there any difference with singing about weegies collectively.? Some people just love to jump on the religion band wagon in my view of course

[Eyrie]

Yes, it is absolutely fine to mock or challenge based on beliefs. Saying otherwise would mean that we had racists, bigots or folk who believe in fairies who live in the hedge claiming that they shouldn't be challenged because 'it's what they believe'. Mocking is entirely different to sectarianism though.

Beliefs are a choice. Sexuality, disability and race aren't.

For context, I'm a Catholic.

But surely a sincerely held belief is an integral part of someone's identity in much the same way as their sexuality, disability or race? They can't simply "choose" to give up that belief without giving up part of themselves.

For context, I'm an atheist.

PS - racists and bigots make themselves fair game for mockery precisely because they want to mock others rather than respect them.