Jack Harper

[cameronw-hfc]

Did anyone else see what under 19'a Scotland coach, Sbragia, said? Despite him playing for Real Madrid, he is too small (6ft 1 or something) and not a runner. Says he wants powerful hard workers over talent because it's all about winning.

There's a reason we have a national team lacking quality and this is why. Talent can't develop because the national coaches want a tall runner. Despite the lad signing a 5 year deal with Real in 2012 and being tipped as their top youngster he can't get into the Scotland under 19 team because he won't chase lost causes.

Edit: also heard he's a hibby,not that it matters in this case.

[Haymaker]

Grafters and runners. Deary me. :bitchy:

In my opinion he is taking the easy road - instead of developing the boys and finding a way to fit a "luxury" player in he is going for grafters to grind out points.

[Hibby Bairn]

Did anyone else see what under 19'a Scotland coach, Sbragia, said? Despite him playing for Real Madrid, he is too small (6ft 1 or something) and not a runner. Says he wants powerful hard workers over talent because it's all about winning.

There's a reason we have a national team lacking quality and this is why. Talent can't develop because the national coaches want a tall runner. Despite the lad signing a 5 year deal with Real in 2012 and being tipped as their top youngster he can't get into the Scotland under 19 team because he won't chase lost causes.

Edit: also heard he's a hibby,not that it matters in this case.

Surprised he would say that. Do you have a link?

[BH Hibs]

Should be sacked for that imho. Surely part of his job should be to bring on young talent as much as results.

[Nando™]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/international/314939-real-madrids-jack-harper-is-a-luxury-player-says-scotland-u19-coach/

What a trumpet. Mark Wotte should be all over this ****.

[easty]

Surprised he would say that. Do you have a link?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3009302/Real-Madrid-starlet-Jack-Harper-snubbed-Scotland-19s-small.html

He's gone for a physical side, rather than a luxury player apparently.

Short-term-ism. Let's no try to better our football, let's make sure we can be physical. It's no the right attitude in my opinion.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Given a 5 year contract by Real Madrid and not wanted by Scotland ... seriously? :confused:

[WillowbraeHibby]

Given a 5 year contract by Real Madrid and not wanted by Scotland ... seriously? :confused:


Makes ye wonder right enough.... :confused:

[Hibby Bairn]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/international/314939-real-madrids-jack-harper-is-a-luxury-player-says-scotland-u19-coach/

What a trumpet. Mark Wotte should be all over this ****.

Brian Maclair now.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Not remotely surprised by this. This sort of attitude still stinks up Scottish football to a horrifying degree, which is why we'll be a backwater for the forseeable future.

Very, very sad...

[Hibby Bairn]

I find that remarkable. Unbelievable really.

[Nando™]

Brian Maclair now.

What happened to Wotte?

[Golden Bear]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/international/314939-real-madrids-jack-harper-is-a-luxury-player-says-scotland-u19-coach/

What a trumpet. Mark Wotte should be all over this ****.

:agree:

As should Gordon Strachan.

[Haymaker]

What happened to Wotte?

Left the role a few months back.

[Thecat23]

No surprise at all. So many coaches is this country dismissing real talent. Some couldnt tell there @rse from elbow.

[Thecat23]

I find that remarkable. Unbelievable really.

As in you think it's made up? Or as in unbelievable that he's came out with such crap.

[Hannah_hfc]

Setting Scotland back a few decades in terms of playing style imo,

You wouldn't see Holland knock back Van Persie or Portugal with Ronaldo (the two players he's been compared with). Only in Scotland...

"sorry son, your too talented to be hoofing the ball up the park "

[The_Exile]

Welcome to Scotland, please set your watch to 1971.

[Billychaotic182]

Think what he meant was for the game coming up he needed bigger faster players. He pointed out that this was just a one off as well

[HibbyAndy]

*Cringe*

[Andy74]

Think what he meant was for the game coming up he needed bigger faster players. He pointed out that this was just a one off as well

Yep, I think there was a bit more context around what he said.

[Thecat23]

Think what he meant was for the game coming up he needed bigger faster players. He pointed out that this was just a one off as well

Why does he need "bigger faster players?"

So Messi your no playing this week, we really need bigger faster players for this game. Don't worry though, it's a one off!!! 😂😂

Sorry but for me it's a ridiculous statement!

Edit.. Meaning him not you by the way.

[Andy74]

Why does he need "bigger faster players?"

So Messi your no playing this week, we really need bigger faster players for this game. Don't worry though, it's a one off!!! 😂😂

Sorry but for me it's a ridiculous statement!

Edit.. Meaning him not you by the way.

He wasn't talking about Messi though was he? It was about his choices for this squad.

There's many a Hibs player in any case that we might relate to.

Would you have chosen to play Benji or Zemamma at Inverness midweek in January or would there be an argument to look at playing more physical runners?

[Thecat23]

He wasn't talking about Messi though was he? It was about his choices for this squad.

There's many a Hibs player in any case that we might relate to.

Would you have chosen to play Benji or Zemamma at Inverness midweek in January or would there be an argument to look at playing more physical runners?

It doesn't matter who he was speaking about. I'm sorry Andy when someone has bags of talent and would improve the first 11 then you play them.

All this "we can't play so and so because they are to small" is so far in the past its bordering caveman stuff. I'd expect Butcher to come out with that line if I'm honest. Stubbs for me would play his best 11 and let the other team worry about us.


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[Andy74]

It doesn't matter who he was speaking about. I'm sorry Andy when someone has bags of talent and would improve the first 11 then you play them.

All this "we can't play so and so because they are to small" is so far in the past its bordering caveman stuff. I'd expect Butcher to come out with that line if I'm honest. Stubbs for me would play his best 11 and let the other team worry about us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You guys are trying to make a general point about this though.

He was discussing a particular player for a particular squad.

He didn't say he was too small anyway, he explained a number of reasons why he didn't think he would improve the team for the game.

I presume people have seen a lot of this guy and aren't just making assumptions in where he is development wise based on the Real Madrid name?

To the last point, Stubbs was pretty heavily criticised this week for not changing our style and formation for Rangers. John Hughes didn't have a plan B when playing through Zemamma and Miller didn't work.

I'm delighted we have such strong philosophy about just playing talented players regardless of work rate or how they fit a team or opposition.

[Purple & Green]

Grafters and runners. Deary me. :bitchy:

In my opinion he is taking the easy road - instead of developing the boys and finding a way to fit a "luxury" player in he is going for grafters to grind out points.

Cruyff had an interesting take on this: "luxury players? It's the bad players that are the luxury" the more things change...

[Thecat23]

You guys are trying to make a general point about this though.

He was discussing a particular player for a particular squad.

He didn't say he was too small anyway, he explained a number of reasons why he didn't think he would improve the team for the game.

I presume people have seen a lot of this guy and aren't just making assumptions in where he is development wise based on the Real Madrid name?

To the last point, Stubbs was pretty heavily criticised this week for not changing our style and formation for Rangers. John Hughes didn't have a plan B when playing through Zemamma and Miller didn't work.

I'm delighted we have such strong philosophy about just playing talented players regardless of work rate or how they fit a team or opposition.

If he's not fit then of course I wouldn't play him. Have you seen a lot of this lad to say he's not good enough to start?

Just sounds to me he's admitting the lad is a great player but isn't playing him! Maybe more too it I've no idea but I find it very odd.


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[Pretty Boy]

I don't think in this instance that Sbragia has said too much wrong. By the age of 21 football should be about winning, especially at the level we are talking about here.

What concerns me is that the sentiments Sbragia has expressed are still rife in youth football in this country and too many young players are caught up in a win at all costs mentality when their skills should be being developed. Mark Wotte was very keen to move away from 'runners and big lads' and look at developing a technical youth set up across the levels. Sadly he was shown the door before being allowed to see his plan through.

[Hibby Bairn]

As in you think it's made up? Or as in unbelievable that he's came out with such crap.

The second option. I just don't get why he would say that. Should probably be relieved of his duties for it as it just goes against everything I thought we were striving for in this country.

[Thecat23]

The second option. I just don't get why he would say that. Should probably be relieved of his duties for it as it just goes against everything I thought we were striving for in this country.

My thoughts exactly!


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[Big_Franck]

What a ridiculous thing for Sbragia to say. His decision to go 'for a physical side and runners' is exactly the attitude that is holding us back. It's the reason we see rank average European national teams that are miles ahead of us in terms or touch and technique.

Get Sbragia to fck out of that job and get someone in who will develop FOOTBALL players or we'll be going nowhere fast. The job of the U19s manager should be to help develop young Scottish football players, not try to kick teams off the park just so he can say he's won a couple of games. With dinosaurs like this in key positions the future looks bleak.

[1875Sean]

Reading more into this, the funny thing is Jack Harper is over 6 ft tall :confused:

[Big_Franck]

I don't think in this instance that Sbragia has said too much wrong. By the age of 21 football should be about winning, especially at the level we are talking about here.

What concerns me is that the sentiments Sbragia has expressed are still rife in youth football in this country and too many young players are caught up in a win at all costs mentality when their skills should be being developed. Mark Wotte was very keen to move away from 'runners and big lads' and look at developing a technical youth set up across the levels. Sadly he was shown the door before being allowed to see his plan through.

It's the Under 19s team, not the Under 21s. I'd disagree that the Under 21s should be all about winning. Even less so at Under 19 level.

[aberhibsfc]

I hoped with the likes of Gauld, MacKay-Stevens, Ryan Fraser's etc we were moving beyond the 'too wee' labels.

Who want's a team of Gary Teales?

[Pretty Boy]

It's the Under 19s team, not the Under 21s. I'd disagree that the Under 21s should be all about winning. Even less so at Under 19 level.

Yep, my mistake.

Tbh I think when you get to international level and the chance to compete at a major tournament then it is about winning. The development work should already be done by age 19.

It's something I know Hibs are very keen to work on. Getting all the basic development of players started at 13 and 14 so that when they reach 20s level they are ready for competitive football. Something that was lacking previously and a key contributor to the slowing up of the 'conveyor belt'.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Never heard of him.

[Nando™]

Left the role a few months back.

Sacked?

If so, why?

[The_Exile]

Never heard of him.

He's never heard of you either.

[Big_Franck]

Yep, my mistake.

Tbh I think when you get to international level and the chance to compete at a major tournament then it is about winning. The development work should already be done by age 19.

It's something I know Hibs are very keen to work on. Getting all the basic development of players started at 13 and 14 so that when they reach 20s level they are ready for competitive football. Something that was lacking previously and a key contributor to the slowing up of the 'conveyor belt'.

Easy mistake to make, to be honest until I opened the STV link i thought Sbragia was U21 manager as well.

I still disagree that winning is so important at U19 level though. In 2006 we got to the final of this tournament Sbragia is trying to qualify for, getting beat in the final by Spain. Only one of our starting 11 (Lee Wallace) went on to play for the full team. Spain's starting 11 included 5 that went on to play for their full team and with Alberto Bueno being called up to their current squad it'll soon be 6.

IMO there is absolutely no point in our U19 team getting through this 3 match period by playing bigger, stronger, physically fitter players. It'll most likely lead to the same kind of percentage of players making the grade when the other more gifted players catch up with them physically.

IMO Sbragia's decision is selfish. He wants to add qualification to the finals to his CV ensuring he gets another fairly well paid job in football, and to hell with the development of our best young players. I find it all very frustrating.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Stop the world, I want off.

[Hibby Bairn]

Easy mistake to make, to be honest until I opened the STV link i thought Sbragia was U21 manager as well.

I still disagree that winning is so important at U19 level though. In 2006 we got to the final of this tournament Sbragia is trying to qualify for, getting beat in the final by Spain. Only one of our starting 11 (Lee Wallace) went on to play for the full team. Spain's starting 11 included 5 that went on to play for their full team and with Alberto Bueno being called up to their current squad it'll soon be 6.



To be fair Steven Fletcher was suspended for the final and Graham Dorrans was on the bench but Spain's player development beyond that game bears no comparison to what the Scotland squad did (or didn't do).

[Pretty Boy]

Easy mistake to make, to be honest until I opened the STV link i thought Sbragia was U21 manager as well.

I still disagree that winning is so important at U19 level though. In 2006 we got to the final of this tournament Sbragia is trying to qualify for, getting beat in the final by Spain. Only one of our starting 11 (Lee Wallace) went on to play for the full team. Spain's starting 11 included 5 that went on to play for their full team and with Alberto Bueno being called up to their current squad it'll soon be 6.

IMO there is absolutely no point in our U19 team getting through this 3 match period by playing bigger, stronger, physically fitter players. It'll most likely lead to the same kind of percentage of players making the grade when the other more gifted players catch up with them physically.

IMO Sbragia's decision is selfish. He wants to add qualification to the finals to his CV ensuring he gets another fairly well paid job in football, and to hell with the development of our best young players. I find it all very frustrating.

When you put it like that I see your point.

I've spent a lot of the last 2 years watching youth football, training, team talks and games and have done my basic goalkeeping license and started my coaching badges as it's a route I'd like to go down one day. Some of what I have seen has been a real eye opener. There are some great guys out there who are great with young lads, there are some guys who have their hearts in the right place but are maybe not quite going about things in the right way and then there are the wannabe Fergies who are obsessed with laddies of 12 and 13 winning at all costs. It's a shame as good young players development is being stunted because they are essentially being told to hoof it to the big lad and are discouraged from expressing themselves and told to 'cut the ****ing fancy stuff'.

It's probably an interesting debate about what age players should start to move away from it being all about development and when a competitive edge should be added. It probably has to be sometime between 16 and 19 as that is when a lot of players first start being around 1st team squads.

[Swedish hibee]

Does this not sum up everything that is wrong with Scottish football? :idiot:

[Hibby Bairn]

To be fair Steven Fletcher was suspended for the final and Graham Dorrans was on the bench but Spain's player development beyond that game bears no comparison to what the Scotland squad did (or didn't do).

Just done a quick reccy of the two squads for that final. Not pretty reading on a where are they now:-

GK 1 Andrew McNeil (AIRDRIE)
RB 2 Andrew Cave-Brown (BECCLES TOWN)
CB 6 Scott Cuthbert (c) (LEYTON ORIENT)
CB 19 Jamie Adams (WIGTON AND BLADNOCH)
LB 3 Lee Wallace (RANGERS)
RM 7 Simon Ferry (DUNDEE)
CM 16 Greg CameroN (MONTROSE)
CM 4 Charles Grant (?)
CM 15 Ryan Conroy (RAITH ROVERS)
LM 10 Michael McGlinchey (WELLINGTON PHOENIX)
CF 8 Calum Elliot (RAITH ROVERS)
Substitutes:
GK 12 Scott Fox (PARTICK TH)
DF 18 Mark Reynolds (ABERDEEN)
DF 5 Garry Kenneth (CARNOUSTIE PANMURE)
MF 17 Brian Gilmour (AYR UTD)
FW 14 Graham Dorrans (NORWICH CITY)

SPAIN

GK 1 Antonio Adán (REAL BETIS)
CB 2 Antonio Barragán (VALENCIA)
CB 4 Marc Valiente (REAL VALADOLLID)
CB 5 Gerard Piqué (BARCELONA)
RWB 6 Mario Suárez (ATH MADRID)
CM 7 Antonio Calvo (ANORTHOSIS FAMAGUSTA)
CM 8 Javi García (ZENIT ST PETERSBURG)
CM 11 Diego CapeL (SPORTING LISBON)
LWB 12 Roberto Canella (DEPORTIVO)
CF 16 Juan Mata (MAN UTD)
CF 18 Alberto Bueno (VALLECANO)
Substitutes:
DF 3 José Ángel Crespo (CORDOBA)
DF 9 César Díaz (ALBACETE BALOMPE)
MF 10 Esteban Granero (REAL SOCIEDAD)
GK 13 Ángel Bernabé (UB CONQUENSE)
FW 14 Marc Pedraza (CD NUMANCIA)
FW 15 Jeffrén Suárez (VALADOLLID)
FW 17 Gorka Elustondo (REAL SOCIEDAD)

Now it cannae just be down to player ability surely? :brickwall

[Andy74]

Does this not sum up everything that is wrong with Scottish football? :idiot:

No it sums up everything thats wrong with the media and internet forums.

What he said and the discussion on here are totally different things.

[HibsNutter]

His job is to develop players for the first team, this is really upsetting. Who gives a ****** about the u19's results if it jeopardises the prospects of potentially better players than are getting a chance?

[jacomo]

Yep, my mistake.

Tbh I think when you get to international level and the chance to compete at a major tournament then it is about winning. The development work should already be done by age 19.

It's something I know Hibs are very keen to work on. Getting all the basic development of players started at 13 and 14 so that when they reach 20s level they are ready for competitive football. Something that was lacking previously and a key contributor to the slowing up of the 'conveyor belt'.

On the face of it, I find this pretty depressing. There's plenty of footballers who develop a bit later and nowhere near the finished article aged 19 or 20.

Who really gives a toss about international youth tournament results? It should be about developing talent IMO, not 'tactical decisions' to nick wins.

[Thecat23]

On the face of it, I find this pretty depressing. There's plenty of footballers who develop a bit later and nowhere near the finished article aged 19 or 20.

Who really gives a toss about international youth tournament results? It should be about developing talent IMO, not 'tactical decisions' to nick wins.

Spot on.

[Pretty Boy]

On the face of it, I find this pretty depressing. There's plenty of footballers who develop a bit later and nowhere near the finished article aged 19 or 20.

Who really gives a toss about international youth tournament results? It should be about developing talent IMO, not 'tactical decisions' to nick wins.

I acknowledged the point above.

There still has to be a point though where development marries up with competitiveness. You can't throw a 20 year old into a 1st team environment if his only experience of football is in a development setting. Most 'elite' players these days are in a pro youth set up from 12 or 13, the development side of things should be focussed on at that age and be a continuous process, part of that development - especially as you get older- is surely learning about winning and losing.

Fwiw I don't agree with Sbragias decision here. Leaving a player out based on, in the media interpretation, height and power is bizarre. My point is a more general one, as opposed to based on this one example, that eventually competitiveness and the importance of results have to be introduced to compliment development. I don't believe for a second that by 19/20s level countries like Germany and Spain aren't focussing on results as well as performance.

[Big_Franck]

When you put it like that I see your point.

I've spent a lot of the last 2 years watching youth football, training, team talks and games and have done my basic goalkeeping license and started my coaching badges as it's a route I'd like to go down one day. Some of what I have seen has been a real eye opener. There are some great guys out there who are great with young lads, there are some guys who have their hearts in the right place but are maybe not quite going about things in the right way and then there are the wannabe Fergies who are obsessed with laddies of 12 and 13 winning at all costs. It's a shame as good young players development is being stunted because they are essentially being told to hoof it to the big lad and are discouraged from expressing themselves and told to 'cut the ****ing fancy stuff'.

It's probably an interesting debate about what age players should start to move away from it being all about development and when a competitive edge should be added. It probably has to be sometime between 16 and 19 as that is when a lot of players first start being around 1st team squads.

I'm not involved in coaching and never have been, but from what i've seen playing and then at the sidelines of youth football over the years the scenes you describe above seem to be pretty common. It's just frustrating that we still seem to have a large number of angry, self-serving, stubborn old dinosaurs with an approach to football that directly leads to us developing few technically great players.

I agree that there needs to be a competitive edge the older they get, but the balance must be right. I'd say that someone that has enough about him to be given the free role in his age group at Real Madrid must have a great deal of ability, so much so that we can afford to drop one of the 'tall, physical, strong runners' that Sbragia has filled his team with to accommodate him. To fill your team with so called Luxury players wouldn't work, but we surely shouldn't be going down the opposite route of filling it with tall, physical boys simply because of their physical attributes, yet that appears to be exactly what our under 19s manager has done.

Interesting quote from Spanish based journalist Graham Hunter in this article http://www.talkingbaws.com/2015/03/24/graham-hunter-decision-not-to-call-up-jack-harper-based-on-power-height-seems-retrograde/

[Big_Franck]

No it sums up everything thats wrong with the media and internet forums.

What he said and the discussion on here are totally different things.

I don't think it is.

He is quoted by STV in the article linked above as having stated that for these three games he has "gone for a physical side and runners".

He was also quoted by the Daily Mail among others (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3009302/Real-Madrid-starlet-Jack-Harper-snubbed-Scotland-19s-small.html) as saying "..we've deliberately got more height in the squad. That's one of the reasons why Jack isn't in."

The majority of the posts here and on other Scottish football forums has been a reaction to these quotes.

[Aitchy]

Sacked?

If so, why?

Christ mate, one word....google.

[wills]

The lad could stick two fingers up to Scotland and play for Spain, sure they might make an approach

[Brightside]

Think what he meant was for the game coming up he needed bigger faster players. He pointed out that this was just a one off as well

Thats exactly what he meant. 100% wrong though. His job isn't to win games. Its to develop players into a decent international outfit. Physical over skill has been our problem for years and it happens at pro-clubs every week with kids as young as 10.

[alan1875]

A total wind up, if this kid is good enough for Madrid youth I'm confident he should be in that squad, without ever having seen him play. The standard must be so high there it would be mad if he wasn't capable enough... I'm not having it

[Unseen work]

I find this ridiculous, it really does get to me.

I understand football is about winning and everyone wants to win and it is important to breed a winners mentality. But the number 1 goal at development level should, funnily enough, be developing the players.

I have seen it happen on far too many occaisions scouts/coaches pick the bigger/stronger players who have developed physcially quicker than others, this makes them stand out and they bully the rest of the opposition team, but then when the other players develop physcially they are head and shoulders above and the so called "bigger guys" footballing ability gets found out.

We really need to take a leaf out of other countries style, spain, holland, germany and france. Go out enjoy your football, Instead of getting told to stop the tricks etc the should be told to encourage them and to take risks to a certain degree. I read a interesting article where the person said in the foreign countries they dont really focus on a players position untill they are quite a bit older, they rotate them round different positions to develop there understanding of the game and to make them comfortable on the ball in different areas of the field. This is what we need to do, We need to abandon the "your tall your a defender, your small your a winger" thought process or we will forever be stuck in this rut.

[Unseen work]

I acknowledged the point above.

There still has to be a point though where development marries up with competitiveness. You can't throw a 20 year old into a 1st team environment if his only experience of football is in a development setting. Most 'elite' players these days are in a pro youth set up from 12 or 13, the development side of things should be focussed on at that age and be a continuous process, part of that development - especially as you get older- is surely learning about winning and losing.

Fwiw I don't agree with Sbragias decision here. Leaving a player out based on, in the media interpretation, height and power is bizarre. My point is a more general one, as opposed to based on this one example, that eventually competitiveness and the importance of results have to be introduced to compliment development. I don't believe for a second that by 19/20s level countries like Germany and Spain aren't focussing on results as well as performance.

The difference is germany and spain will focus on developing players and getting results by coaching the players:

Areas to get on the ball
Type of movement the should be making
Encouraging them to get on the ball and dictate the play

In this country they make the same mistake of ditching the small guys when they are playing a more physical opposition instead of giving them a chance, teaching and nurturing them on how to play against them and cope with their physicallity. How will small players ever learn when they are continously dropped for these games?


Scotland need to adapt the same system throughout age groups, like clubs do, this is the style we play and be confident by it!

[Mikey09]

Cruyff had an interesting take on this: "luxury players? It's the bad players that are the luxury" the more things change...


I love how we've now become brainwashed into thinking a "luxury" player is some kind of hinderence in modern day football.... "Aye boss, that Dani Alves is too good on the ball, bit of a luxury player. There's a lad playing in Scotland, young Rolf they call him... You should think about signing him."

Only in Scotland eh??! :rolleyes:

[Stax]

I'm not involved in coaching and never have been, but from what i've seen playing and then at the sidelines of youth football over the years the scenes you describe above seem to be pretty common. It's just frustrating that we still seem to have a large number of angry, self-serving, stubborn old dinosaurs with an approach to football that directly leads to us developing few technically great players.

I agree that there needs to be a competitive edge the older they get, but the balance must be right. I'd say that someone that has enough about him to be given the free role in his age group at Real Madrid must have a great deal of ability, so much so that we can afford to drop one of the 'tall, physical, strong runners' that Sbragia has filled his team with to accommodate him. To fill your team with so called Luxury players wouldn't work, but we surely shouldn't be going down the opposite route of filling it with tall, physical boys simply because of their physical attributes, yet that appears to be exactly what our under 19s manager has done.

Interesting quote from Spanish based journalist Graham Hunter in this article http://www.talkingbaws.com/2015/03/24/graham-hunter-decision-not-to-call-up-jack-harper-based-on-power-height-seems-retrograde/
Absolutely spot on, Graham Hunter is very knowledgeable about Spanish football & one of the few scottish journos worth listening to imo. So Strachan would never have got a game for Spragia, too wee and to much of a luxury? I realise a team needs balance but that should always be weighted towards the more creative & skillful players. Another myth is small players are always lightweight, people keep citing Messi but he is solid/low centre of gravity and rarely gets knocked of the ball. I've watched Harpers progress with interest because frankly when was the last time we had a highly rated player at Real Madrid? As others have already stated he's 6 ft anyway.

[Nando™]

Christ mate, one word....google.

Christ mate, two words....deh greet.

Rather than Google it, it may be of interest to get an explanation in this thread as more people than just myself will be interested to know why.

[GreenLake]

Intelligent thinking seems to be a luxury Sbragia does not want to carry.

[Callum_62]

TOTAL LUXURY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26p5co_jack-harper-v-basel-u19s_sport

[Nando™]

TOTAL LUXURY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26p5co_jack-harper-v-basel-u19s_sport

Strong header, quick feet, not afraid to shoot from distance, great range of passing.

No wonder he's been dropped.

[lord bunberry]

What's wrong with coaching our young players to win games playing flowing creative football. This clown should be taken aside and told to get his priorities right.

[Andy Bee]

I don't think in this instance that Sbragia has said too much wrong. By the age of 21 football should be about winning, especially at the level we are talking about here.

What concerns me is that the sentiments Sbragia has expressed are still rife in youth football in this country and too many young players are caught up in a win at all costs mentality when their skills should be being developed. Mark Wotte was very keen to move away from 'runners and big lads' and look at developing a technical youth set up across the levels. Sadly he was shown the door before being allowed to see his plan through.



I agree, young kids are being set up to beat the opposition when the SFA explicitly says there has to be no competitive football, I've watched age 8 yr old matches with the so called coaches berating players for not doing enough in a league that's meant to be non competitive. Granted these people have to be applauded for giving up their time to coach the young uns but by god make better use of it.

[Alex Trager]

TOTAL LUXURY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26p5co_jack-harper-v-basel-u19s_sport

Pretty good like


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[Brightside]

Christ mate, two words....deh greet.

Rather than Google it, it may be of interest to get an explanation in this thread as more people than just myself will be interested to know why.

He put a framework in place to develop talent through all ages. BUT thats only good if coaches are told to develop talent and forget about winning games. SFA is run by old men in suits. Also as others have said we have some truly awful coaches at youth level that should not be allowed anywhere near kids football. Grown men screaming and shouting at 9 and 10yo kids if they make a mistake, and complaining if they lose a goal.

[J-C]

TOTAL LUXURY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26p5co_jack-harper-v-basel-u19s_sport


Now that's a player :greengrin

[Mikey09]

It's been reported Spain have made inquiries into his international status after learning of his omission from the Scotland 19's. Sorry don't know how to link!! :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

This will probably cost Sbragia his job and that's no bad thing.
It's not difficult to see how they forced out Mark Wotte.
If Sbragia was a proper coach then surely he would call him up and work with him on the areas he feels he is weak on? That's what a real coach would do. Instead he's admitting he's just a selector.

[Mikey09]

I remember having Sportsound on one night at work and the fountain of football development that is Malpas, Chic Young and someone else, name escapes me, were putting the boot into Mark Wotte giving it "it's just no the way we dae it in this country."
Now I've listened to some pish on that show but that particular one really took the biscuit!! Strachan has done a fantastic job changing our playing style and mentality with the first team but with some of the coaches he has at other levels in the game, and I include youth football where the emphasis is purely on player development, he will have to do it time and time again.
I get to watch a lot of youth football where I work and yes there are some very good coaches, Steven McLean helps out a Peebles Rovers age group, Stuart Lovell helps a team out. However they are completely outweighed by the idiots screaming like banshees at the kids on the sidelines.... Go and watch a game if you can, I guarantee the emphasis is on winning!!

[Haymaker]

Sacked?

If so, why?

Apparently he completed all he wanted to do.

[SlickShoes]

Looks, big and strong, not shoved off the ball easily, can go past a man, good range of passing and knows where the back of the net is. Not good enough.

I can understand leaving out players that are a "luxuary" in professional football for certain games, but anything below that be it u19s, development league, kids football should be about developing the best players you can and not winning at all costs.

[frazeHFC]

Looks a great prospect, stupid decision to freeze him out!

Spain want him now. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/spain-look-nick-real-madrid-5394475

[Hibby Bairn]

There is a guy called Austin MacPhee who set up and runs AM Soccer in Fife near St Andrews. UEFA coach who opted out of normal youth football set up and has 500 kids playing within their own leagues and tournaments. It is very successful and emphasis is totally on player technique and development. They take groups abroad to play leading clubs including Barcelona.

A bit like Ian Cathro his talents are being seen by others outside Scotland. He was part of technical analysis team at Brazil 2014 working for Mexico. And tonight will be in dugout at Hampden.....as one of the Northern Ireland asst coaches!

It is no coincidence imo that NI have recorded better results since he got involved.

So Cathro at Valencia (instrumental in Ryan Gauld's development whilst with Dundee Utd and I have no doubt also his transfer to Sporting Lisbon)....MacPhee with Northern Ireland...and we have guys like Ricky S wanting runners and workers.

[The_Exile]

There is a guy called Austin MacPhee who set up and runs AM Soccer in Fife near St Andrews. UEFA coach who opted out of normal youth football set up and has 500 kids playing within their own leagues and tournaments. It is very successful and emphasis is totally on player technique and development. They take groups abroad to play leading clubs including Barcelona.

A bit like Ian Cathro his talents are being seen by others outside Scotland. He was part of technical analysis team at Brazil 2014 working for Mexico. And tonight will be in dugout at Hampden.....as one of the Northern Ireland asst coaches!

It is no coincidence imo that NI have recorded better results since he got involved.

So Cathro at Valencia (instrumental in Ryan Gauld's development whilst with Dundee Utd and I have no doubt also his transfer to Sporting Lisbon)....MacPhee with Northern Ireland...and we have guys like Ricky S wanting runners and workers.

It would seem all our brightest coaches are having to leave the country to develop players the way they want to develop them and the way every football fan wants to see the game played. It's like a sketch out of Only an Excuse or something.

[Ozyhibby]

There is a guy called Austin MacPhee who set up and runs AM Soccer in Fife near St Andrews. UEFA coach who opted out of normal youth football set up and has 500 kids playing within their own leagues and tournaments. It is very successful and emphasis is totally on player technique and development. They take groups abroad to play leading clubs including Barcelona.

A bit like Ian Cathro his talents are being seen by others outside Scotland. He was part of technical analysis team at Brazil 2014 working for Mexico. And tonight will be in dugout at Hampden.....as one of the Northern Ireland asst coaches!

It is no coincidence imo that NI have recorded better results since he got involved.

So Cathro at Valencia (instrumental in Ryan Gauld's development whilst with Dundee Utd and I have no doubt also his transfer to Sporting Lisbon)....MacPhee with Northern Ireland...and we have guys like Ricky S wanting runners and workers.


I posted this on here a couple of years back. It was written by Austin McPhee.
https://youthtoprosoccer.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/austin-macphee-match-analysis-hibs-1.pdf

[green.and.white]

Strachan should be on the phone to the lad right now. Like many others, have never seen the guy play, but if he is good enough to play for Real Madrid youth, he is good enough to play for us.

The reasoning behind his exclusion is a sackable offence IMO

[Ryan69]

Republic of Ireland supposedly looking into his eligibility now...

[Cameron1875]

I posted this on here a couple of years back. It was written by Austin McPhee.
https://youthtoprosoccer.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/austin-macphee-match-analysis-hibs-1.pdf

Wow. Enjoyable read in terms of detail and the criticism of O'Connor was a sign of things to come it seems.

Still maintain Fenlon performed a miracle keeping that team up!

[Andy74]

This is hysterical nonsense because the name Real Madrid is involved.

If you read more of his comments he says that he was with the squad previously, done no more than okay and didn't make the impact he had hoped. He is talented enough but likes to wander all over the place which his club team can accomodate but is more problematic for his squad/team. He also mentions other players that couldn't get in the squad and probbaly had as much of a shout.

I think talking aout his size he means more about how his all round physical attributes as opposed to just height, as he is clearly reasonably tall himself.

We've described our own players as luxuries often enough, guys like Benji and Zemmama who were clearly more talented than others in the squad but you can't just have players doing what they like and expecting others to carry them, regardless of level.

I think the manager is saying that he a lot to learn and others are in the team just now but he has also said his time will certainly come.

Edit: A Daily Mail article from a bit further back which illustrates a wee bit the caution needed here. Suggestions also in that article that a bit like Van Persie as a kid fitting him into a system whilst he is learning and developing can sometimes be very difficult.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2760391/Jack-Harper-shone-Real-Madrid-UEFA-Youth-League-win-Basle-mentors-warn-against-burdening-talented-young-Scot.html

[Thecat23]

This is hysterical nonsense because the name Real Madrid is involved.

If you read more of his comments he says that he was with the squad previously, done no more than okay and didn't make the impact he had hoped. He is talented enough but likes to wander all over the place which his club team can accomodate but is more problematic for his squad/team. He also mentions other players that couldn't get in the squad and probbaly had as much of a shout.

I think talking aout his size he means more about how his all round physical attributes as opposed to just height, as he is clearly reasonably tall himself.

We've described our own players as luxuries often enough, guys like Benji and Zemmama who were clearly more talented than others in the squad but you can't just have players doing what they like and expecting others to carry them, regardless of level.

I think the manager is saying that he a lot to learn and others are in the team just now but he has also said his time will certainly come.

Edit: A Daily Mail article from a bit further back which illustrates a wee bit the caution needed here. Suggestions also in that article that a bit like Van Persie as a kid fitting him into a system whilst he is learning and developing can sometimes be very difficult.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2760391/Jack-Harper-shone-Real-Madrid-UEFA-Youth-League-win-Basle-mentors-warn-against-burdening-talented-young-Scot.html

It's pretty clear Andy he's made an arse of it. You don't come out with comments like that and try justify it by saying "he's a luxury player" that's a cop out if ever I heard one.

He's meant to develop these guys and if he's good enough for Madrid I'm pretty sure he could easily play this game. Madrid are who they are for a reason! Guy sounds a caveman and personally can't see him lasting in that role if that's the way he thinks!

[NAE NOOKIE]

I posted this on here a couple of years back. It was written by Austin McPhee.
https://youthtoprosoccer.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/austin-macphee-match-analysis-hibs-1.pdf

Came on to mention that Scotland were getting slaughtered on Talksport over this decision ... though its a bit of a miracle to hear them mention Scottish football at all.

What a fascinating read that was ... he summed up Gary O'Connor in a nutshell and his use of the word lazy was far from inaccurate. His take on Lewis Stevenson was good too and he picked out his main fault of all last season, that being that he never changes the point of attack and is too inclined to play the ball back to the area it came from ..... not so much of a problem this season, but he is up against weaker teams.

I would love to read a report on all our games from this guy.

[theonlywayisup]

Just done a quick reccy of the two squads for that final. Not pretty reading on a where are they now:-

GK 1 Andrew McNeil (AIRDRIE)
RB 2 Andrew Cave-Brown (BECCLES TOWN)
CB 6 Scott Cuthbert (c) (LEYTON ORIENT)
CB 19 Jamie Adams (WIGTON AND BLADNOCH)
LB 3 Lee Wallace (RANGERS)
RM 7 Simon Ferry (DUNDEE)
CM 16 Greg CameroN (MONTROSE)
CM 4 Charles Grant (?)
CM 15 Ryan Conroy (RAITH ROVERS)
LM 10 Michael McGlinchey (WELLINGTON PHOENIX)
CF 8 Calum Elliot (RAITH ROVERS)
Substitutes:
GK 12 Scott Fox (PARTICK TH)
DF 18 Mark Reynolds (ABERDEEN)
DF 5 Garry Kenneth (CARNOUSTIE PANMURE)
MF 17 Brian Gilmour (AYR UTD)
FW 14 Graham Dorrans (NORWICH CITY)

SPAIN

GK 1 Antonio Adán (REAL BETIS)
CB 2 Antonio Barragán (VALENCIA)
CB 4 Marc Valiente (REAL VALADOLLID)
CB 5 Gerard Piqué (BARCELONA)
RWB 6 Mario Suárez (ATH MADRID)
CM 7 Antonio Calvo (ANORTHOSIS FAMAGUSTA)
CM 8 Javi García (ZENIT ST PETERSBURG)
CM 11 Diego CapeL (SPORTING LISBON)
LWB 12 Roberto Canella (DEPORTIVO)
CF 16 Juan Mata (MAN UTD)
CF 18 Alberto Bueno (VALLECANO)
Substitutes:
DF 3 José Ángel Crespo (CORDOBA)
DF 9 César Díaz (ALBACETE BALOMPE)
MF 10 Esteban Granero (REAL SOCIEDAD)
GK 13 Ángel Bernabé (UB CONQUENSE)
FW 14 Marc Pedraza (CD NUMANCIA)
FW 15 Jeffrén Suárez (VALADOLLID)
FW 17 Gorka Elustondo (REAL SOCIEDAD)

Now it cannae just be down to player ability surely? :brickwall

Wow! You're right, why have we players who end up at Carnoustie Panmure and their worst player still ends up at a reasonable level.

Wow! Can't believe anyone replied to your amazing detective work! Respect!

[HibernianJK]

Anyone who agrees with this decision is just a big an idiot as the manager who made the decision. Complete disgrace and sums up the footballing mentality in this country.

[theonlywayisup]

I remember when I was in Primary School, a long long time ago, one school mate was head and shoulders above the rest. Not in stature (he was by far the smallest boy in the class) but through footballing skill. His dad was a Highland League player, a tall skilful midfielder, but his son hadn't started his growth, yet!

By the time this boy got to 12 and into high school, he had given up playing football completely. I've always wondered what would have become of him had he grown up in Spain.

[Scouse Hibee]

Anyone who agrees with this decision is just a big an idiot as the manager who made the decision. Complete disgrace and sums up the footballing mentality in this country.


So anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot eh? Nice one pal makes you sound a bit of an ..................................

[Famous Fiver]

Thank god Sbragia wasn't about in the late forties/ early fifties. Bobby Johnstone would never have got a game for Hibs. Come to think of it none of the famous five were 6ft 1in. They did all their playing in the other team's half and I don't remember any of them getting picked for their robust qualities.

Sbragia is a dinosaur. Petrie,get it sorted!!!!

[Andy74]

Always thought Craig Brown talked a lot of sense:

Former Scotland manager Craig Brown has defended Ricky Sbragia claiming his decision not to include Real Madrid youngster Jack Harper in his U19 squad should be respected.

Sbragia labelled Harper a “luxury player" when announcing his latest Scotland party to face Austria, Italy and Croatia in the UEFA European Championship Elite Round on Tuesday, claiming he is looking for more height in the group, despite the Madrid youngster already standing at 6ft 1in.

The 19-year-old’s father, John, has told the Daily Record that Spain were quick to enquire about his son’s international status after being left out by Sbragia, and reckons Jack may have a decision to make in the near future about which country he represents.

However, while Brown, who was in charge of the Scotland national team from 1993-2001, said that technical ability was to be valued over physical strength, he insisted that it was important to trust Sbragia’s judgement, claiming people’s opinions could be blurred given Harper is a Real Madrid youth player.

'Commodity'

Speaking on Sky Sports News HQ, Brown said: "Technical ability is the main priority, quite clearly. There are very small players doing exceptionally well and have done over the years and I think physical strength is important but it’s not the vital commodity. I think the main commodity is skill and technical ability.

“I respect Ricky Sbragia greatly. Now, the fact that the lad is not selected is highlighted principally because - he’s not played for Real Madrid, I want to emphasise – he’s been signed by Real Madrid.

“He might never play for Real Madrid or he might be a world star but the point I’m trying to make is that the name of the club tends to hypnotise people and think that if you’re a Real Madrid signing you must be a better player than the Scottish players who are playing for Scottish clubs. Now, that is not necessarily the case.

“We hope in years to come it will be and he’ll turn out to be a very good Scotland player but we’ve got to respect the coach’s decision to leave him out the team at the moment.”

Brown conceded it was a concern that Spain were reported to be interested in securing Harper’s services but re-iterated that players at youth level couldn’t just be selected for squads based on the clubs they play for.

He said: “If he’s good enough to play for Spain it would be a worry if we lose him but I’ve got to be honest and say that quite clearly Ricky will know him and doesn’t consider him, at the moment, ready to play in the Scotland team and you have to respect that.

“I just think there is far too much hype because it is a Real Madrid name in front of the media and when they see Real Madrid they assume every Real Madrid player is outstanding. Now many are, and most are, but it doesn’t necessarily follow.

“There will be players playing in England and in Scotland, particularly in Scotland, of the same age and of comparable ability and I think we’ve got to consider them and not because he plays for Real Madrid make him a first choice selection for the U19 team.”

[Andy74]

Anyone who agrees with this decision is just a big an idiot as the manager who made the decision. Complete disgrace and sums up the footballing mentality in this country.

I'd no idea we had so many experts on all the under 19 players to speak so strongly about it.

You could start by telling us how many times you've watched this guy.

[theonlywayisup]

Brown conceded it was a concern that Spain were reported to be interested in securing Harper’s services but re-iterated that players at youth level couldn’t just be selected for squads based on the clubs they play for.


No you plum, but they can always play for the country of their birth!

[Andy74]

No you plum, but they can always play for the country of their birth!

I don't get your point?

[J-C]

I don't get your point?


Think he's pointing out that Craig Brown doesn't realise that Harper was born and raised in Malaga, nothing to do with his club.

[theonlywayisup]

I don't get your point?

Craig Brown stating that Harper can't just play for Spain because he plays for Real Madrid. Maybe he's forgetting Harper was born in Spain.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't get your point?

Harper was born in Spain so would be eligible because of where he was born not what club he plays for as Brown suggests.

[Andy74]

Craig Brown stating that Harper can't just play for Spain because he plays for Real Madrid. Maybe he's forgetting Harper was born in Spain.

He's not saying that at all. He is well aware where he was born.

What he is saying is that whilst it is a worry that Spain are interested you can't just stick him in the Scotland Under 19 squad just due to the club he plays for.

A few of you need to read that again!!!

[J-C]

He's not saying that at all. He is well aware where he was born.

What he is saying is that whilst it is a worry that Spain are interested you can't just stick him in the Scotland Under 19 squad just due to the club he plays for.

A few of you need to read that again!!!


Has he not already played for the U19's so he was playing at Real then, so where's the difference.

[theonlywayisup]

He's not saying that at all. He is well aware where he was born.

What he is saying is that whilst it is a worry that Spain are interested you can't just stick him in the Scotland Under 19 squad just due to the club he plays for.

A few of you need to read that again!!!

Your right, I see that I have misinterpreted what he was saying.

[Andy74]

Has he not already played for the U19's so he was playing at Real then, so where's the difference.

What do you mean? His point is it doesn't mean he should be an automatic pick for each squad. The fact is he has been in the squad before. The manager said he did okay but he had expected him to make more impact than he did. It's all fairly sensible compared to the hysteria over a player no one has seen play not making this particular squad.

[Deansy]

Problem's easily solved - the laddie's agent should spread a rumour both the 'Ugly Sisters' are after him. That'll be enough to cause a dramatic 'change of mind' !!

[Thecat23]

Mmm Craig Brown, a guy brought up with old school values defending another with the same philosophy!!!

Still think its pretty clear the guy had made a mistake in what he's said and him playing for Madrid actually means nothing as he's said he's a very good player. What it comes down too is he wants to play the "big physical players" as he doesn't trust a lad who clearly has what it takes because God forbid we actually develop a scottish player that comes close to King Kenny.

Proof is in the pudding. If we invested more heavily and actually taught the way other countries do things, like give these kind of players a real chance we wouldn't be looking at a scotland team that hasn't reached major finals since 98.

Guys like this are past it, we need to move away from folk who coach this way and freshen it up. Christ it's not like we have anything to lose is it??

[truehibernian]

Mmm Craig Brown, a guy brought up with old school values defending another with the same philosophy!!!

Still think its pretty clear the guy had made a mistake in what he's said and him playing for Madrid actually means nothing as he's said he's a very good player. What it comes down too is he wants to play the "big physical players" as he doesn't trust a lad who clearly has what it takes because God forbid we actually develop a scottish player that comes close to King Kenny.

Proof is in the pudding. If we invested more heavily and actually taught the way other countries do things, like give these kind of players a real chance we wouldn't be looking at a scotland team that hasn't reached major finals since 98.

Guys like this are past it, we need to move away from folk who coach this way and freshen it up. Christ it's not like we have anything to lose is it??

Have to say I've never heard anyone come out with a bad word against Craig Brown TC.......I think he is actually someone who, rather than fit in with the 'hairdryer coaches' of his time, was actually ahead of his time in that regard.

I'd say if we had him in the dug out rather than Terry Butcher then we'd be playing SPL football this season.

I agree with you however - not many fans remember what happened to U19 or U21 Scotland teams........they do however remember World Cups and Euros.........the youth tourneys should still fit into the 'development' bracket and coaching should be the emphasis, not just the result.

[Thecat23]

Have to say I've never heard anyone come out with a bad word against Craig Brown TC.......I think he is actually someone who, rather than fit in with the 'hairdryer coaches' of his time, was actually ahead of his time in that regard.

I'd say if we had him in the dug out rather than Terry Butcher then we'd be playing SPL football this season.

I agree with you however - not many fans remember what happened to U19 or U21 Scotland teams........they do however remember World Cups and Euros.........the youth tourneys should still fit into the 'development' bracket and coaching should be the emphasis, not just the result.

I'd take Craig Brown over Butcher any day! I don't rate Brown highly though. I think guys like him have had their day in football. 10/20 years ago yeah now... No chance.

Agree with you about developing players, should be about getting the best out them not just scrapping through games hoping we win at any cost. The bigger picture is not the result at that age.


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[Andy74]

Mmm Craig Brown, a guy brought up with old school values defending another with the same philosophy!!!

Still think its pretty clear the guy had made a mistake in what he's said and him playing for Madrid actually means nothing as he's said he's a very good player. What it comes down too is he wants to play the "big physical players" as he doesn't trust a lad who clearly has what it takes because God forbid we actually develop a scottish player that comes close to King Kenny.

Proof is in the pudding. If we invested more heavily and actually taught the way other countries do things, like give these kind of players a real chance we wouldn't be looking at a scotland team that hasn't reached major finals since 98.

Guys like this are past it, we need to move away from folk who coach this way and freshen it up. Christ it's not like we have anything to lose is it??

Clearly has what it takes based on what? His team as far as I can see. Why wasn't he any good last time in the squad?

I dont have a view if this is right or wrong. I've no idea how people can have a view it's wrong though.

[Scouse Hibee]

The only thing I can see that has been done wrong here is that he explained why he was left out, if he had kept quiet said nothing and just not selected him there wouldn't be all of this fuss.

[J-C]

Clearly has what it takes based on what? His team as far as I can see. Why wasn't he any good last time in the squad?

I dont have a view if this is right or wrong. I've no idea how people can have a view it's wrong though.

Because the lad is a good solid technically gifted player who instead of running about sweating like mad for 90 mins, actually tries to play football the correct way and we as a nation don't want him.

[Thecat23]

Clearly has what it takes based on what? His team as far as I can see. Why wasn't he any good last time in the squad?

I dont have a view if this is right or wrong. I've no idea how people can have a view it's wrong though.

For a start playing for Real youth teams shows he has something! He will be playing alongside some of the most talented youngsters in world football.

He will learn from some of the best players as these guys get to watch training sessions and often have first team players sit in with them and discuss how they play the way they do.

So he wasn't great in a previous game, does that mean he should be instantly dropped? This could be the perfect game for him. But this coach has made his mind up already that he's not right for the team. As stated before we are failing because of guys like this. If they were doing their job right Scotland would be producing far better players and wouldn't be out of major finals before they have begun.


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[Andy74]

Because the lad is a good solid technically gifted player who instead of running about sweating like mad for 90 mins, actually tries to play football the correct way and we as a nation don't want him.

Sorry but you are just taking that from headlines.

[truehibernian]

I'd take Craig Brown over Butcher any day! I don't rate Brown highly though. I think guys like him have had their day in football. 10/20 years ago yeah now... No chance.

Agree with you about developing players, should be about getting the best out them not just scrapping through games hoping we win at any cost. The bigger picture is not the result at that age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IIRC it was Andy Roxburgh who recommended CB follow on from him..........I remember the furore at the time when Roxburgh was appointed and it was 'Andy who' :greengrin

Scotland sadly, rather than progress with the forward thinking coaching, regressed backwards - I think, and it's my opinion, because at the time Scottish managers were doing well in the top English leagues.......with this aura of 'hard bar steward' management style (aka Fergie).......

I still think we over complicate football and coaching - I still think we have the wrong attitudes off the pitch and that until we actually see football as a profession which requires complete dedication, we will always falter.

Pace, fitness, technique, playing players in their preferred position and positive coaching - for me that is the recipe.

Scotland however still has the bevvy, kebab, 'selfie' and Twitter, and 'I'm a local celebrity get me out of here' culture. Hence we will always fail.

[JimBHibees]

The only thing I can see that has been done wrong here is that he explained why he was left out, if he had kept quiet said nothing and just not selected him there wouldn't be all of this fuss.

Agree totally it is up to the coach to decide however why explain the reason and coming out with not physical enough or a luxury really doesn't help. Seems a little odd that he isn't in the squad sat all.

[macd123]

Craig Brown has come out to defend Sbragia so he must be right and we must be wrong. Apparently it's a piece of cake to get on Real Madrid s books.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32052408

[J-C]

Sorry but you are just taking that from headlines.

Headlines, video clips, whatever, he's a young lad who's at Real Madrid, they seem to think he has a big future and I think I'd listen what they and the Spanish think before any of our so called coaches.

[Thecat23]

IIRC it was Andy Roxburgh who recommended CB follow on from him..........I remember the furore at the time when Roxburgh was appointed and it was 'Andy who' :greengrin

Scotland sadly, rather than progress with the forward thinking coaching, regressed backwards - I think, and it's my opinion, because at the time Scottish managers were doing well in the top English leagues.......with this aura of 'hard bar steward' management style (aka Fergie).......

I still think we over complicate football and coaching - I still think we have the wrong attitudes off the pitch and that until we actually see football as a profession which requires complete dedication, we will always falter.

Pace, fitness, technique, playing players in their preferred position and positive coaching - for me that is the recipe.

Scotland however still has the bevvy, kebab, 'selfie' and Twitter, and 'I'm a local celebrity get me out of here' culture. Hence we will always fail.

Couldn't agree more with everything you just said TH. Actually saved me typing anything else [emoji16][emoji106]


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[J-C]

For a start playing for Real youth teams shows he has something! He will be playing alongside some of the most talented youngsters in world football.

He will learn from some of the best players as these guys get to watch training sessions and often have first team players sit in with them and discuss how they play the way they do.

So he wasn't great in a previous game, does that mean he should be instantly dropped? This could be the perfect game for him. But this coach has made his mind up already that he's not right for the team. As stated before we are failing because of guys like this. If they were doing their job right Scotland would be producing far better players and wouldn't be out of major finals before they have begun.


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Imagine if John Park had turned round and said, Riordan is too skinny and lazy for us, we'll let him go as we want big strong runners, think of all the goals we'd not see.

[Thecat23]

Headlines, video clips, whatever, he's a young lad who's at Real Madrid, they seem to think he has a big future and I think I'd listen what they and the Spanish think before any of our so called coaches.

Spot on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

Headlines, video clips, whatever, he's a young lad who's at Real Madrid, they seem to think he has a big future and I think I'd listen what they and the Spanish think before any of our so called coaches.

Who said he doesn't have a future? Over dramatic nonsense to take all that from a discussion about one squad selection.

[Thecat23]

Imagine if John Park had turned round and said, Riordan is too skinny and lazy for us, we'll let him go as we want big strong runners, think of all the goals we'd not see.

[emoji1] Exactly, we'd have had guys like Bobby Mann and a bunch of thugs running about the park clattering folk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J-C]

Who said he doesn't have a future? Over dramatic nonsense to take all that from a discussion about one squad selection.


Well obviosly the U19 coach Sbagria or whatever his name is, lad is 6ft and he says he's too small and a luxury. A lot of teams needs luxury but our coaches don't know what to do with them, that's why the Dutch guy left his post last year, banging his head against a brick wall. Thankfully we seem to have got it right at ER at last with Stubbs, what did he say at the start of tenure, he wanted quality over quantity, says it all.

[Haymaker]

Clearly has what it takes based on what? His team as far as I can see. Why wasn't he any good last time in the squad?

I dont have a view if this is right or wrong. I've no idea how people can have a view it's wrong though.

He came into a squad he knew nobody in and did "ok". Remember he has been playing in Spain all his life while most of the other lads will know each other already, quite a strange position.

Secondly he comes into a side with a different system of play, he has only ever learnt one way, the coaches job is to help him understand his role within the system. He would need time to settle. He clearly has ability and hopefully a bright future so for me the coach should be looking to get him involved as much as possible, learning a new system and integrating with the lads he may be playing with in the senior side in years to come.

Maybe RS has been mis-quoted or cocked up his explanation but it does come across as he is attempting to get the big boys in and playing for percentages rather than nurturing a squad for the future - which IMO is his job!

[Andy74]

He came into a squad he knew nobody in and did "ok". Remember he has been playing in Spain all his life while most of the other lads will know each other already, quite a strange position.

Secondly he comes into a side with a different system of play, he has only ever learnt one way, the coaches job is to help him understand his role within the system. He would need time to settle. He clearly has ability and hopefully a bright future so for me the coach should be looking to get him involved as much as possible, learning a new system and integrating with the lads he may be playing with in the senior side in years to come.

Maybe RS has been mis-quoted or cocked up his explanation but it does come across as he is attempting to get the big boys in and playing for percentages rather than nurturing a squad for the future - which IMO is his job!

Don't disagree with any of that. It's a bit different though from the attitude that he must be in the squad every time due to who he plays for.

[Haymaker]

Don't disagree with any of that. It's a bit different though from the attitude that he must be in the squad every time due to who he plays for.

His club clearly suggests he could be a cut above the rest however as I said above he comes into a totally different set of players, a different culture, system, coaching styles. Could take a young lad a while to adapt and show his worth. However to show it, he needs to be playing/involved at least.

[truehibernian]

Who said he doesn't have a future? Over dramatic nonsense to take all that from a discussion about one squad selection.

A young footballer is defined by the games he plays, the players he trains alongside, the leagues and tournaments he is involved in and the coaching he gets both domestically and if he is lucky enough, internationally.

Any young player, whether he plays or not, takes in and absorbs the surroundings and the whole experience - and thus it stands him in good stead - so even an U19 qualifier, with the travel, the banter, the emotion, the tension, the build up and the training - can be hugely beneficial for their future.

I think it is really strange that Ricky S has remained silent since the alleged comments - he will of course hide behind the 'we are focused on the game ahead' but for me he needs to come out and explain - as I am in no doubt he has said what has been attributed to him - which for me is utterly bizarre.

We are in an 'Islam Feruz' situation here - lads with undoubted talent, lads who could choose someone else - yet we are a nation that sees Liam Bridcutt or Chris Martin as 'the future' :rolleyes:

Of course you are correct, we have little real knowledge about these players - but any player who is handed a contract at Real Madrid would tell me, as a nation, that we are not in a position to ignore their specialist knowledge.

[alhibby]

A young footballer is defined by the games he plays, the players he trains alongside, the leagues and tournaments he is involved in and the coaching he gets both domestically and if he is lucky enough, internationally.

Any young player, whether he plays or not, takes in and absorbs the surroundings and the whole experience - and thus it stands him in good stead - so even an U19 qualifier, with the travel, the banter, the emotion, the tension, the build up and the training - can be hugely beneficial for their future.

I think it is really strange that Ricky S has remained silent since the alleged comments - he will of course hide behind the 'we are focused on the game ahead' but for me he needs to come out and explain - as I am in no doubt he has said what has been attributed to him - which for me is utterly bizarre.

We are in an 'Islam Feruz' situation here - lads with undoubted talent, lads who could choose someone else - yet we are a nation that sees Liam Bridcutt or Chris Martin as 'the future' :rolleyes:

Of course you are correct, we have little real knowledge about these players - but any player who is handed a contract at Real Madrid would tell me, as a nation, that we are not in a position to ignore their specialist knowledge.

:top marks

[Big_Franck]

He's not saying that at all. He is well aware where he was born.

What he is saying is that whilst it is a worry that Spain are interested you can't just stick him in the Scotland Under 19 squad just due to the club he plays for.

A few of you need to read that again!!!

No he isn't. Brown said in an interview broadcast tonight that 'the boy has moved over to Spain'. He didn't move to Spain, he was born in Spain.

I always thought Craig Brown was a bit of an old slaver with outdated views on football. Not surprised in the slightest that one auld SFA dinosaur is trying to stick up for another.

[Sir David Gray]

Personally I had never heard of him before reading this thread but I find it odd that we have a player who is on the books of Real Madrid and is highly thought of there as well by all accounts and he can't get a game for Scotland U19s.

[Ozyhibby]

http://grahamhunter.tv/jack-harper-and-freddies-revenge/

Good article from someone who has seen him play.
I also think Graham Hunter is the best Scottish football journalist going.

[Nando™]

http://grahamhunter.tv/jack-harper-and-freddies-revenge/

Good article from someone who has seen him play.
I also think Graham Hunter is the best Scottish football journalist going.

Enjoyed that read :aok:

Darren Fletcher is another one that doesn't run much but has won Champions Leagues and dominated midfields against the best players in the world using only his mental and technical ability rather than relying on his physical attributes.

[MWHIBBIES]

Enjoyed that read :aok:

Darren Fletcher is another one that doesn't run much but has won Champions Leagues and dominated midfields against the best players in the world using only his mental and technical ability rather than relying on his physical attributes.Darren Fletcher does run, a lot. His best games for United involved him going box to box fighting and scrapping in midfield and making life difficult for the opponent.

[Nando™]

Darren Fletcher does run, a lot. His best games for United involved him going box to box fighting and scrapping in midfield and making life difficult for the opponent.

He still doesn't fit into the 'physical and runner' type though, his skill far, far outweighed everything else, he's like a better version of Jorge Claros. Claros was excruciatingly slow and still managed to break up play and pick passes. Fletcher did that exact thing but much, much better.

[Billychaotic182]

This reeks of Kurtis Byrne and his dad.......

[lord bunberry]

This reeks of Kurtis Byrne and his dad.......
To me it reeks more of Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy

[The_Exile]

If the laddie has any sense he'll jack us in after this and be turning out for Spain in a couple of months.

[blackpoolhibs]

Well obviosly the U19 coach Sbagria or whatever his name is, lad is 6ft and he says he's too small and a luxury. A lot of teams needs luxury but our coaches don't know what to do with them, that's why the Dutch guy left his post last year, banging his head against a brick wall. Thankfully we seem to have got it right at ER at last with Stubbs, what did he say at the start of tenure, he wanted quality over quantity, says it all.

:agree: Stubbs said something along the same lines on Scott Allan, how he knows it does not always come off but he is special and he gives him the authority to try and be that player who opens things up with that one special pass or flick that can win us the game.

The other players are just as important, but he is the one that has that something special in his locker that can open the opposition up.

It is all about getting that balance, but stifling your creative players is what we seem to have been doing since i was a boy and probably a lot longer?

[Smartie]

http://grahamhunter.tv/jack-harper-and-freddies-revenge/

Good article from someone who has seen him play.
I also think Graham Hunter is the best Scottish football journalist going.

I agree about Hunter, head and shoulders above all other football journos and it is an excellent article.

Shame all of the good ones have to leave Scotland but you could imagine the Old Firm-based crap he would be having to write in order to get a decent readership in Scotland.

I couldn't help but think of Malonga when reading Kanoute's comments too.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Don't know the guy and never seen him play. However, is nobody seeing the irony in the fact we always complain a that you only need to sign for the old firm to get a game for Scotland yet complaining G a guy is not getting a game because he has signed for one of the top teams in the world?

[Speedy]

This is hysterical nonsense because the name Real Madrid is involved.

If you read more of his comments he says that he was with the squad previously, done no more than okay and didn't make the impact he had hoped. He is talented enough but likes to wander all over the place which his club team can accomodate but is more problematic for his squad/team. He also mentions other players that couldn't get in the squad and probbaly had as much of a shout.

I think talking aout his size he means more about how his all round physical attributes as opposed to just height, as he is clearly reasonably tall himself.

We've described our own players as luxuries often enough, guys like Benji and Zemmama who were clearly more talented than others in the squad but you can't just have players doing what they like and expecting others to carry them, regardless of level.

I think the manager is saying that he a lot to learn and others are in the team just now but he has also said his time will certainly come.

Edit: A Daily Mail article from a bit further back which illustrates a wee bit the caution needed here. Suggestions also in that article that a bit like Van Persie as a kid fitting him into a system whilst he is learning and developing can sometimes be very difficult.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2760391/Jack-Harper-shone-Real-Madrid-UEFA-Youth-League-win-Basle-mentors-warn-against-burdening-talented-young-Scot.html

Agreed. Sbragia has handled it terribly but the vast majority on this thread won't have seen him playing (myself included so I won't comment on whether he should or shouldn't be in).

It's funny though, there was outcry on here last week when James Forrest was selected for Scotland 'just because he plays for Celtic'.

[The_Exile]

Agreed. Sbragia has handled it terribly but the vast majority on this thread won't have seen him playing (myself included so I won't comment on whether he should or shouldn't be in).

It's funny though, there was outcry on here last week when James Forrest was selected for Scotland 'just because he plays for Celtic'.

Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Celtic are a pish club in a pish league, can't compare the two IMO. The reason Real sign young players is they are seen as the very best in terms of potential, the reason Celtic sign players is because it's all they can afford and it weakens the domestic challenge.

[Hibby Bairn]

Back to the OP.

This wasn't really about Jack Harper. This was a more general point about the selection policy for the elite round of games being about runners, grafters and big guys.

Probably no one on here has seen Harper play. But he isn't really the issue. It is all about Ricky S and the players he believes Scotland needs to do well in the elite round (after having finished 3rd from 4 in the qualifying round and getting through as one of the best placed 3rd teams).

Most of us are arguing that we thought we had moved on from that but it seems that isn't the case and that it still permeates throughout youth football in this country.

[Andy74]

Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Celtic are a pish club in a pish league, can't compare the two IMO. The reason Real sign young players is they are seen as the very best in terms of potential, the reason Celtic sign players is because it's all they can afford and it weakens the domestic challenge.

Man U are also one of the biggest. Did we get a football lesson from Evans and McNair last night?

I see Wotte is now backing the decision saying he has been pretty mixed when he has seen him.

It is just a squad we are talking about. No one is saying he will never play.

[Andy74]

Back to the OP.

This wasn't really about Jack Harper. This was a more general point about the selection policy for the elite round of games being about runners, grafters and big guys.

Probably no one on here has seen Harper play. But he isn't really the issue. It is all about Ricky S and the players he believes Scotland needs to do well in the elite round (after having finished 3rd from 4 in the qualifying round and getting through as one of the best placed 3rd teams).

Most of us are arguing that we thought we had moved on from that but it seems that isn't the case and that it still permeates throughout youth football in this country.

Not really. The point is people are making all those assumptions from limited bits of his comments about Harper.

[The_Exile]

Man U are also one of the biggest. Did we get a football lesson from Evans and McNair last night?

Not sure I see the relevance to my point, but if you mean players aren't automatically great players if signed for a big club I would agree. At some point in their youth careers Evans and McNair obviously had the potential to go all the way, how they ended up being first teamers for Utd is beyond me though :greengrin

[Thecat23]

Not really. The point is people are making all those assumptions from limited bits of his comments about Harper.

I'd say the point is he's admitted he's a very good player but wants a physical side and doesn't think a technically gifted player would do a job in that side for this game. So again, encourage the clobbers and dismiss the talent!

As I say the fact he plays for Madrid is irrelevant. But that just adds to the fact the Lad can play. People comparing this to playing for the old firm are wrong.

[Brightside]

Back to the OP.

This wasn't really about Jack Harper. This was a more general point about the selection policy for the elite round of games being about runners, grafters and big guys.

Probably no one on here has seen Harper play. But he isn't really the issue. It is all about Ricky S and the players he believes Scotland needs to do well in the elite round (after having finished 3rd from 4 in the qualifying round and getting through as one of the best placed 3rd teams).

Most of us are arguing that we thought we had moved on from that but it seems that isn't the case and that it still permeates throughout youth football in this country.

Your point is 100% correct. I have seen jack Harper - and he;s not the best in the world at that age group but he is a quality footballer who plays the game in the correct manner. Ricky S is a diplidocus. The majority of that current u19 squad will only ever see lower level football as skill development continues to be ignored in Scotland.

Mark W wanted every single level of Scotland team to play 4-3-3, and wanted them to play in the same manner. I've not seen anything from Brian McClair yet but im fearfull of all Mark's work being chucked on the scrap heap as the old school take over again.

[Thecat23]

Your point is 100% correct. I have seen jack Harper - and he;s not the best in the world at that age group but he is a quality footballer who plays the game in the correct manner. Ricky S is a diplidocus. The majority of that current u19 squad will only ever see lower level football as skill development continues to be ignored in Scotland.

Mark W wanted every single level of Scotland team to play 4-3-3, and wanted them to play in the same manner. I've not seen anything from Brian McClair yet but im fearfull of all Mark's work being chucked on the scrap heap as the old school take over again.

Be a real shame if this happens.

[J-C]

Agreed. Sbragia has handled it terribly but the vast majority on this thread won't have seen him playing (myself included so I won't comment on whether he should or shouldn't be in).

It's funny though, there was outcry on here last week when James Forrest was selected for Scotland 'just because he plays for Celtic'.

I think the outcry was more the fact that Forrest hasn't really played for Celtic and Mackay-Stevens who just moved there is almost a mainstay in the Celtic team, probably more like if your face fits in the Scotland set up, that's how Caldwell won so many caps.

[J-C]

Man U are also one of the biggest. Did we get a football lesson from Evans and McNair last night?

I see Wotte is now backing the decision saying he has been pretty mixed when he has seen him.

It is just a squad we are talking about. No one is saying he will never play.


McNair is still a young lad who's a CB playing as a RB and Evans is a bog standard CB who's filled in when Man U are short on cover a big difference, If Smalling and Jones had been playing last night you'd see a difference ( obviously they're English before someone says how could they play last night).

[Haymaker]

Be a real shame if this happens.

I would hope not seeing as he is coming from Manchester United youth development however I still wouldn't be surprised!

[Smartie]

I would hope not seeing as he is coming from Manchester United youth development however I still wouldn't be surprised!

I'd be astonished tbh.

Man United have a magnificent record of bringing through young players, possibly the best in the world for a big club (other than Barcelona I suppose). McClair will have been a huge part of that for the past 20 years. No way will he throw all of that out of the window in favour of this kind of nonsense.

[Haymaker]

I'd be astonished tbh.

Man United have a magnificent record of bringing through young players, possibly the best in the world for a big club (other than Barcelona I suppose). McClair will have been a huge part of that for the past 20 years. No way will he throw all of that out of the window in favour of this kind of nonsense.

This IS the SFA though... :greengrin

[Future17]

We are in an 'Islam Feruz' situation here - lads with undoubted talent, lads who could choose someone else - yet we are a nation that sees Liam Bridcutt or Chris Martin as 'the future' :rolleyes:

Why do you think this is similar to the situation with Feruz? Doesn't seem similar at all to me.


Ricky S is a diplidocus.

I love the fact that you've gone more specific than "dinosaur". :greengrin

[Smartie]

This IS the SFA though... :greengrin

Very true.

And what are Sbragia's credentials?

I'm sure he was caretaker manager at a Premier League club at one point? He must have worked behind the scenes at an academy down South to have got that gig for a bit. He really should know better (unless, as you say, he has been bitten by the SFA mediocrity bug).

[JIm]

Theres not half some amount of pish written on this thread, with folk jumping the gun all over the place.

Firstly whatever Sbragia has said clearly wasn't worded particularly well, i don't think anyone can dispute that and the SFA should come out and clear this up asap. Sooner its cleared up the better though as we are all well aware of how newspapers can take things out of context to create a story. I'm amazed at how much attention this has actually got but at same time understand why.

However to call Ricky Sbragia a dinasour etc is nothing short of ridiculous. Served his apprenticeship at Man Utd under Brian McLair over a vast period of time and its safe to say having met the guy on numerous occasions he doesn't choose players based on athleticism over technique/talent. Just look at some of the players who have kicked on from his time at Man Utd, Pique, the lad Rossi who was at Villareal to name two off teh top of my head. The guy is not only extremely clued up on youth development but has bags of experience in this area and is an exceptional coach.

Also lets look to the current 19s squad that he has picked, for anyone who is aware of the players involved, one particular standout that disproves what is being said about Sbragia is Paul McMullan a young Celtic winger on loan at Stenhousemuir. He is a great example, not particularly big and physical however does have the power to deal with that side of the game, when i've seen him play a real winger and certainly alot smaller than Jack Harper............

Harper has been in the 17s & 19s squad and no doubt will be back in squads in the future. However just because you play for Real Madrid youth setup does not mean you should be an automatic pick for the squad, you have to earn that on performance and what you have done in previous training camps. I would imagine that this is where the comments have come from, lack of performance at a previous training camp. Would be interesting to know if anyone who has commented on this thread has seen the lad play? Sadly i've not as yet.

Finally its no real surprise to see the Daily Record running with some of the stories that Spain are interested in his services. What a rag of a paper. Anything to stick the knife in.

[Speedy]

Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world. Celtic are a pish club in a pish league, can't compare the two IMO. The reason Real sign young players is they are seen as the very best in terms of potential, the reason Celtic sign players is because it's all they can afford and it weakens the domestic challenge.

You can imo because it's the exact same principle. People talking about selecting players (or not) based on who they play for rather than what they can or can't contribute.

[Future17]

Theres not half some amount of pish written on this thread....


I'm amazed at how much attention this has actually got but at same time understand why.

:hmmm:

[JIm]

:hmmm:

Good reply.

[macd123]

Theres not half some amount of pish written on this thread, with folk jumping the gun all over the place.

Firstly whatever Sbragia has said clearly wasn't worded particularly well, i don't think anyone can dispute that and the SFA should come out and clear this up asap. Sooner its cleared up the better though as we are all well aware of how newspapers can take things out of context to create a story. I'm amazed at how much attention this has actually got but at same time understand why.

However to call Ricky Sbragia a dinasour etc is nothing short of ridiculous. Served his apprenticeship at Man Utd under Brian McLair over a vast period of time and its safe to say having met the guy on numerous occasions he doesn't choose players based on athleticism over technique/talent. Just look at some of the players who have kicked on from his time at Man Utd, Pique, the lad Rossi who was at Villareal to name two off teh top of my head. The guy is not only extremely clued up on youth development but has bags of experience in this area and is an exceptional coach.

Also lets look to the current 19s squad that he has picked, for anyone who is aware of the players involved, one particular standout that disproves what is being said about Sbragia is Paul McMullan a young Celtic winger on loan at Stenhousemuir. He is a great example, not particularly big and physical however does have the power to deal with that side of the game, when i've seen him play a real winger and certainly alot smaller than Jack Harper............

Harper has been in the 17s & 19s squad and no doubt will be back in squads in the future. However just because you play for Real Madrid youth setup does not mean you should be an automatic pick for the squad, you have to earn that on performance and what you have done in previous training camps. I would imagine that this is where the comments have come from, lack of performance at a previous training camp. Would be interesting to know if anyone who has commented on this thread has seen the lad play? Sadly i've not as yet.

Finally its no real surprise to see the Daily Record running with some of the stories that Spain are interested in his services. What a rag of a paper. Anything to stick the knife in.

They said the same about james mccarthy. It's not about performing in training camps or rewarding hard work at all. It's about developing players and potential. There is no point looking back in 5 years like we have done with james mccarthy saying "well he didn't work hard enough at that training camp".

[Future17]

Good reply.

Sorry, I actually agree with about 90% of what you said, which isn't to say I don't agree with the rest; I just don't know enough about it. But I thought it was mildly amusing that you were amazed by something you understand. :greengrin

I should have commented more fully initially but, as I say, I broadly agree with your post. :aok:

[Mathias Jack]

Very true.

And what are Sbragia's credentials?

I'm sure he was caretaker manager at a Premier League club at one point? He must have worked behind the scenes at an academy down South to have got that gig for a bit. He really should know better (unless, as you say, he has been bitten by the SFA mediocrity bug).

He was Man United's reserve team coach from 2002-2005, Sunderland manager, Bolton first team coach. I am in NO way supporting Sbragia's views, just answering your question :agree:

If I was Strachan, i'd have called him up and capped him against Gibraltar. Ensures he can only play for us, and to send a big 'get that right roond ye' to Spain. Too late now I now but going by the calibre of the Gibraltar squad, maybe it wouldn't have been so much of a crazy idea after all.

[Smartie]

He was Man United's reserve team coach from 2002-2005, Sunderland manager, Bolton first team coach. I am in NO way supporting Sbragia's views, just answering your question :agree:

If I was Strachan, i'd have called him up and capped him against Gibraltar. Ensures he can only play for us, and to send a big 'get that right roond ye' to Spain. Too late now I now but going by the calibre of the Gibraltar squad, maybe it wouldn't have been so much of a crazy idea after all.

Cheers:aok:

I expected his cv to be decent (though I didn't know much about him) which is why I suggested that he should know better.

His cv is that of an intelligent coach with experience in bringing through exactly the type of player we are discussing here.

His comments are those of a dunderheid who has bumbled into a coaching position because he played about 300 games for Airdrie in the 80s and has a badge.

Strange stuff.

[Haymaker]

He was Man United's reserve team coach from 2002-2005, Sunderland manager, Bolton first team coach. I am in NO way supporting Sbragia's views, just answering your question :agree:

If I was Strachan, i'd have called him up and capped him against Gibraltar. Ensures he can only play for us, and to send a big 'get that right roond ye' to Spain. Too late now I now but going by the calibre of the Gibraltar squad, maybe it wouldn't have been so much of a crazy idea after all.

Pretty sure in the past a few other countries have done this. Brazil for one.

[JIm]

They said the same about james mccarthy. It's not about performing in training camps or rewarding hard work at all. It's about developing players and potential. There is no point looking back in 5 years like we have done with james mccarthy saying "well he didn't work hard enough at that training camp".

Of course its about performing in training camps and trying to get the players qualifying for the finals of each competition they take part in, at same time its also about developing players and recognising the difference between the two which i'm sure the national coaches at this level are more than capable of doing, including Sbragia.

This is nothing like the McCarthy situation imo - the Scottish FA are clearly well aware of Harper and he has been in and involved in squads. McCarthy was for whatever reason overlooked, not that it would have swayed his decision, he'd committed to Ireland based on promises he had made to his grandad anyway.

[JIm]

Sorry, I actually agree with about 90% of what you said, which isn't to say I don't agree with the rest; I just don't know enough about it. But I thought it was mildly amusing that you were amazed by something you understand. :greengrin

I should have commented more fully initially but, as I say, I broadly agree with your post. :aok:

haha fair enough. What i was trying to say is that im amazed at how much attention this has recieved. However with the way the media manipulate stories and quotes it doesn't surprise me :thumbsup:

[Big_Franck]

Your point is 100% correct. I have seen jack Harper - and he;s not the best in the world at that age group but he is a quality footballer who plays the game in the correct manner. Ricky S is a diplidocus. The majority of that current u19 squad will only ever see lower level football as skill development continues to be ignored in Scotland.

Mark W wanted every single level of Scotland team to play 4-3-3, and wanted them to play in the same manner. I've not seen anything from Brian McClair yet but im fearfull of all Mark's work being chucked on the scrap heap as the old school take over again.


Totally agree. Someone above said that others are complaining he's not in the squad because he plays for the Real Madrid. I think they've misread the majority of the posts.

The reason I, the majority of the posters on this thread and most of the posters on the Tartan Army board and Pie and Bovril forum for that matter, have criticised Sbragia is that the reason given for his omission from the squad was that he wasn't tall, physical or a strong runner. That's the crux of it. That's exactly the mentality that has held us back for decades and continues to do so.

The fact some people here see nothing wrong with that statement tells you a lot about Scottish football's problems. The groups that go mental at a sideways or backward pass and the 'just get it in the box' brigade are a huge part of the problem as well IMO.

[Andy74]

Totally agree. Someone above said that others are complaining he's not in the squad because he plays for the Real Madrid. I think they've misread the majority of the posts.

The reason I, the majority of the posters on this thread and most of the posters on the Tartan Army board and Pie and Bovril forum for that matter, have criticised Sbragia is that the reason given for his omission from the squad was that he wasn't tall, physical or a strong runner. That's the crux of it. That's exactly the mentality that has held us back for decades and continues to do so.

The fact some people here see nothing wrong with that statement tells you a lot about Scottish football's problems. The groups that go mental at a sideways or backward pass and the 'just get it in the box' brigade are a huge part of the problem as well IMO.

Ronaldo is a tall physical runner by the way.

Understanding what the manager is saying and supporting a long ball physical style of football are two totally different things.

Those complaining about this aren't just football purists.

[Bishop Hibee]

Female colleague at works son plays for Tynie about U13 level. First comment from a coach at his first training session, "no exactly 7 feet is he?'. Maybe he won't get beyond amateur level but this attitude makes me greet. Sbragia should have been far more savvy with the press. These comments, whether tactically justified or not, add fuel to the fire for critics of Scottish football.

[J-C]

Ronaldo is a tall physical runner by the way.

Understanding what the manager is saying and supporting a long ball physical style of football are two totally different things.

Those complaining about this aren't just football purists.


And Messi is 5ft 5in and the best player in the world, oh and by the way Maradonna is 5ft 4in, Pele 5ft 8in, Iniesta 5ft 7in, Aguero 5ft 8in, Xavi 5ft 6in and Best 5ft 9in, none of them exactly giants but some of the greatest players ever to play this game.

[Centre Hawf]

Saw this on twitter and thought it was spot on: http://thecontinentalzone.com/2015/03/26/a-message-to-ricky-sbragia-regarding-jack-harper/

[Andy74]

And Messi is 5ft 5in and the best player in the world, oh and by the way Maradonna is 5ft 4in, Pele 5ft 8in, Iniesta 5ft 7in, Aguero 5ft 8in, Xavi 5ft 6in and Best 5ft 9in, none of them exactly giants but some of the greatest players ever to play this game.

Nothing to do with the point though.

No one is saying small players can't be good or great players.

I was making the point that talking about tall physical players does not in itself mean you are discussing playing route one.

This thread has the manager painted as some sort of Stone Age tactician based on a few words taken largely out of context.

[ancient hibee]

Nothing to do with the point though.

No one is saying small players can't be good or great players.

I was making the point that talking about tall physical players does not in itself mean you are discussing playing route one.

This thread has the manager painted as some sort of Stone Age tactician based on a few words taken largely out of context.

Watching Celtic playing against Inter recently shows you what he meant-did Griffiths get a kick?

[J-C]

Nothing to do with the point though.

No one is saying small players can't be good or great players.

I was making the point that talking about tall physical players does not in itself mean you are discussing playing route one.

This thread has the manager painted as some sort of Stone Age tactician based on a few words taken largely out of context.


You went out of your way to make the point that Ronaldo is a tall physical runner, your words and also those of Sbragia, he said ..........At Real Madrid, Jack can float all over the place, which he does. But with us he has to be more disciplined.

Surely as a coach he should still bring the lad into the squad and then coach him to be more disciplined if this is what he w.ants, he went on to say......."He's an exceptionally gifted lad but we can't carry him. He can be a luxury sometimes.

Then coach him not to be such a luxury but still have him there as part of the squad, if for nothing more than to let him integrate with the other lads

"I've gone for a physical side and runners. Hopefully I'm proved right in Austria. It's purely a tactical decision."

Fair enough but why then not have him there to see exactly why he was left out and show him the parts of the game you feel he should work on.


This was all to do with the fact he called him a luxury and made him out to be a bit lazy etc and against Austria he wanted bid physical runners in the team, it very much looked like he couldn't be ersed trying to train the lad to be a bit more physiacl in his game play and the easy option was to dop him to one side.


p.s. after the Ronaldo comment I had to point out the sizes of these greats, couldn't resist.......oh and by the way Harper is 6ft 1in, not exactly small.

[Centre Hawf]

You went out of your way to make the point that Ronaldo is a tall physical runner, your words and also those of Sbragia, he said ..........At Real Madrid, Jack can float all over the place, which he does. But with us he has to be more disciplined.

Surely as a coach he should still bring the lad into the squad and then coach him to be more disciplined if this is what he w.ants, he went on to say......."He's an exceptionally gifted lad but we can't carry him. He can be a luxury sometimes.

Then coach him not to be such a luxury but still have him there as part of the squad, if for nothing more than to let him integrate with the other lads

"I've gone for a physical side and runners. Hopefully I'm proved right in Austria. It's purely a tactical decision."

Fair enough but why then not have him there to see exactly why he was left out and show him the parts of the game you feel he should work on.


This was all to do with the fact he called him a luxury and made him out to be a bit lazy etc and against Austria he wanted bid physical runners in the team, it very much looked like he couldn't be ersed trying to train the lad to be a bit more physiacl in his game play and the easy option was to dop him to one side.


p.s. after the Ronaldo comment I had to point out the sizes of these greats, couldn't resist.......oh and by the way Harper is 6ft 1in, not exactly small.

I remember after a Scotland game Barry Bannan was absolute sensational. Roaming around the field spraying passes left right and centre and genuinely just having an excellent game. This was at the early days of the Bannan hype and things were looking good for him. I get into the car after that game and Jim Traynor is on the radio giving it "is he too small to play for Scotland" and I was genuinely baffled by this. Especially after such an impressive performance, one that proved he had ability to compete.

Bannan hasn't obviously kicked on as expected but thats more to do with his off-field antics I think than his height. But it begs the question of why do we have this perception that every footballer must be built like an NFL linebacker. Or have the height of Peter Crouch. What ever happened to just being an immensely talented footballer?

[J-C]

I remember after a Scotland game Barry Bannan was absolute sensational. Roaming around the field spraying passes left right and centre and genuinely just having an excellent game. This was at the early days of the Bannan hype and things were looking good for him. I get into the car after that game and Jim Traynor is on the radio giving it "is he too small to play for Scotland" and I was genuinely baffled by this. Especially after such an impressive performance, one that proved he had ability to compete.

Bannan hasn't obviously kicked on as expected but thats more to do with his off-field antics I think than his height. But it begs the question of why do we have this perception that every footballer must be built like an NFL linebacker. Or have the height of Peter Crouch. What ever happened to just being an immensely talented footballer?


Although a Celtic legend wee Jimmy Johnstone was one of my all time favourite players, 5ft 2in, that's all he got to 5ft 2in, as strong as an ox and a European cup winner too but way to small :greengrin