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hibee-boys
22-03-2015, 08:04 PM
Much of our strength this season come from a dynamic midfield, supported by full backs over lapping, creating opportunities out wide. I think Stubbs, with the loss of Cummings, felt obliged to shoehorn his favourite 4 into midfield but clearly this didn't work. 3-5-2 is the way to go but who misses out?

Andy74
22-03-2015, 08:09 PM
Much of our strength this season come from a dynamic midfield, supported by full backs over lapping, creating opportunities out wide. I think Stubbs, with the loss of Cummings, felt obliged to shoehorn his favourite 4 into midfield but clearly this didn't work. 3-5-2 is the way to go but who misses out?

Eh? That midfield four have been pretty successful. I don't really get your point about feeling obliged to play a team that has worked quite well.

J-C
22-03-2015, 08:09 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.

J-C
22-03-2015, 08:10 PM
Eh? That midfield four have been pretty successful. I don't really get your point about feeling obliged to play a team that has worked quite well.


He's talking about going 3-5-2, which means only room for 3 and not 4 midfielders.

Hermit Crab
22-03-2015, 08:10 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.


No way. After he went off I thought we got worse!

Andy74
22-03-2015, 08:11 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.

Madness. Robertson has been excellent and key to how we've been playing.

I will leave you all to it though.

J-C
22-03-2015, 08:11 PM
No way. After he went off I thought we got worse!


Opinions eh :greengrin

Eyrie
22-03-2015, 08:29 PM
He's talking about going 3-5-2, which means only room for 3 and not 4 midfielders.

I think that's the point that Andy74 is making - why change from a midfield diamond that has worked better for us than 352?

hibee-boys
22-03-2015, 08:30 PM
It's all when and good playing 4-4-2 against the lesser teams of the championship, who play 1 up front, allowing the centre backs to sit with full back pushing on. I think that today was a lesson leant, don't play your best 11 players, play your best players who fit the formation.

J-C
22-03-2015, 08:37 PM
I think that's the point that Andy74 is making - why change from a midfield diamond that has worked better for us than 352?


But it didn't work though did it, we have to look at other ways to play, the diamond is all well and good when we dominate but not against teams like Rangers etc who play in a way that puts pressure on our main players, that's why we have to look at either a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-3-1, then a midfielder loses out. We played a 3-5-2 in the 1st league game at Ibrox and humped them.

truehibernian
22-03-2015, 08:47 PM
Nobody should miss out - they should all get the opportunity to make amends next week with an up tempo performance and an all guns blazing show in Kirkcaldy.

I'd be working on shooting all week though - our players rarely seem to want to grasp that nettle and have a bang - Hearts players all over the pitch want a crack at the opposition keeper. Some players have mystified me as to why they have not taken a shot, and then taken shots when it's not on - game intelligence needs to improve in the run in. Goal difference could matter big time.

lucky
22-03-2015, 08:57 PM
I thought Robertson was our best player today and was surprised to see him get taken off

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 09:00 PM
I thought Robertson was our best player today and was surprised to see him get taken off

Would agree with that.

Thought he was a bit sloppy and off the pace first 5 minutes but came onto a decent game.

Personally I think we need to take a deep breath and calm down after today. It was poor and there were a few poor performance but the formation has served us well for much of the season. I'd expect us to stick with it next week and get a result.

thebakerboy
22-03-2015, 09:04 PM
I think that AS was out thought by McCall in that they played 3 5 2 and took our full backs , who are often our best way forward , out of the game by pushing them back . We should have changed when Gray went off and matched up to negate the attacks of Wallace and McGregor. If Boyle had come on then at wing back Wallace would have had to watch him and Watson would have been behind Boyle to cover. At that point it would be difficult to say who would have gone off but I might have been tempted to push McGeoch up and take Djedje off. It was definitely a mistake to stay at 4 4 2 because Wallace took Watson apart after half time.All this is in MVHO only.

hibee-boys
22-03-2015, 09:07 PM
Would agree with that.

Thought he was a bit sloppy and off the pace first 5 minutes but came onto a decent game.

Personally I think we need to take a deep breath and calm down after today. It was poor and there were a few poor performance but the formation has served us well for much of the season. I'd expect us to stick with it next week and get a result.

I think the formation works well against the majority of championship teams but when it comes to play off games, semi-finals and god willing another cup final, we'll have to have a plan B. If we play a flat back 4 and a diamond midfield against Celtic they'll murder us!

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 09:11 PM
I think the formation works well against the majority of championship teams but when it comes to play off games, semi-finals and god willing another cup final, we'll have to have a plan B. If we play a flat back 4 and a diamond midfield against Celtic they'll murder us!

Don't disagree but we have mixed it up in the past. A couple of weeks back v Livi and at Ibrox spring to mind.

Today was a mistake by Stubbs, I'm sure he'll know that, but it's not the time for a major panic imo.

Heedersnvolleys
22-03-2015, 09:41 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.
You were not watching the same game as me today, I agre Fyvie played well also but was really suprised when Robertson was replaced, I thought Dylan was poor today. As for wonder boy Allan not at the races today!

marinello59
22-03-2015, 09:44 PM
You were not watching the same game as me today, I agre Fyvie played well also but was really suprised when Robertson was replaced, I thought Dylan was poor today. As for wonder boy Allan not at the races today!

I thought Robertson played well too in the role he was given but felt he had to be sacrificed for Stanton to give us a bit more of an attacking threat.

J-C
22-03-2015, 09:44 PM
You were not watching the same game as me today, I agre Fyvie played well also but was really suprised when Robertson was replaced, I thought Dylan was poor today. As for wonder boy Allan not at the races today!

I was answering the question if we went to 3-5-2 it only alows for 3 midfielders and at the moment I feel the other 3 are ahead of him if they went with that formation.

Hermit Crab
22-03-2015, 09:48 PM
Slightly off topic but does Scott Allan's booking today earn him a suspension? Is that 6 yellows for him?

J-C
22-03-2015, 09:51 PM
Slightly off topic but does Scott Allan's booking today earn him a suspension? Is that 6 yellows for him?


I think in another thread someone mentioned he may be suspended, probably do him the world of good as he's not been great recently.

Heedersnvolleys
22-03-2015, 10:00 PM
I was answering the question if we went to 3-5-2 it only alows for 3 midfielders and at the moment I feel the other 3 are ahead of him if they went with that formation.
Ah sorry but I still feel Robertson is required as he is the best we have at the moment at sitting in front of our defenders.

Hermit Crab
22-03-2015, 10:15 PM
I think in another thread someone mentioned he may be suspended, probably do him the world of good as he's not been great recently.


So that would be the QOS game then.

Tyler Durden
22-03-2015, 10:16 PM
But it didn't work though did it, we have to look at other ways to play, the diamond is all well and good when we dominate but not against teams like Rangers etc who play in a way that puts pressure on our main players, that's why we have to look at either a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-3-1, then a midfielder loses out. We played a 3-5-2 in the 1st league game at Ibrox and humped them.

And we played the 442 diamond at easter road at humped them 4-0. Plus 2 games against Hearts we dominated and LC game vs Dundee Utd.

Formation was not the problem today, bad day at office for too many players

J-C
22-03-2015, 10:20 PM
And we played the 442 diamond at easter road at humped them 4-0. Plus 2 games against Hearts we dominated and LC game vs Dundee Utd.

Formation was not the problem today, bad day at office for too many players

We were playing a **** Rangers managed by a **** manager, McCall knows the game and set up his team to counter the diamond, we didn't change it when it wasn't working.

cmcd
22-03-2015, 10:48 PM
In my humble opinion Hibs are more effective with than without Robertson He was one of our better players today and ran his socks of for the team As has been said it was a bad day at the office but we are still in with a shout ref promotion

Eyrie
22-03-2015, 10:49 PM
We were playing a **** Rangers managed by a **** manager, McCall knows the game and set up his team to counter the diamond, we didn't change it when it wasn't working.

Gray going off injured at half time made any change to the formation problematic because we'd have had to use two of our substitutes. We struggled with 352 at Ibrox so sticking with the 442 diamond for this game made sense.

What hurt us was too many players having an off day at the same time, including both strikers.

NadeAteMyLunch!
22-03-2015, 11:02 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.

Robertson was our best player today. The only reason he was subbed was because he is the most defensive of the four midfielders and we were chasing an equaliser

J-C
22-03-2015, 11:19 PM
Gray going off injured at half time made any change to the formation problematic because we'd have had to use two of our substitutes. We struggled with 352 at Ibrox so sticking with the 442 diamond for this game made sense.

What hurt us was too many players having an off day at the same time, including both strikers.


Yet in that game we beat them 3-1, tea a real struggle that was, the next away game there we won 2-0 playing with the diamond, common denominator is Rangers crap management both bames, now they have McCall who set them up properly to play against us.

J-C
22-03-2015, 11:21 PM
Robertson was our best player today. The only reason he was subbed was because he is the most defensive of the four midfielders and we were chasing an equaliser


Again please look at the OP I was answering, not who is the best but which player from midfield would be left out if we play 3-5-2.:confused:

Hibs1992
22-03-2015, 11:26 PM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.

Really scratching my head at your assessment...

Yes it was a poor performance today and very dissapointing but I think you are turning towards an easy scapegoat due to last seasons debacle. If Craig had been playing I'm sure it would have been him.

As far as I'm concerned Robertson has been excellent this season and was one of our better players today. Singling him out for abuse today is poor form.

Billy McKirdy
22-03-2015, 11:30 PM
Would agree with that.

Thought he was a bit sloppy and off the pace first 5 minutes but came onto a decent game.

Personally I think we need to take a deep breath and calm down after today. It was poor and there were a few poor performance but the formation has served us well for much of the season. I'd expect us to stick with it next week and get a result.


Have to agree with this.
Robertson was far from our worse performer today, McCall set his team up to stifle and succeeded.
Robbo has been excellent all season.
Dust down and start again from next week.
Today was disappointing but not the end of the world.
Learn from it and move on 👍

DH1875
22-03-2015, 11:37 PM
Again please look at the OP I was answering, not who is the best but which player from midfield would be left out if we play 3-5-2.:confused:


I'd leave Fyvie out. As good a player as he is, i still think he is a tad over weight and a bit slow (pace wise).

Smartie
22-03-2015, 11:38 PM
Have to agree with this.
Robertson was far from our worse performer today, McCall set his team up to stifle and succeeded.
Robbo has been excellent all season.
Dust down and start again from next week.
Today was disappointing but not the end of the world.
Learn from it and move on 

Absolutely.

We need to analyse where we went wrong, learn, and respond accordingly.

We don't need a major overhaul or any knee-jerk decisions.

I would hope that they're going to have a pretty rigorous post-mortem and ask a few pretty searching questions of themselves though. I'd be disappointed if it is just dismissed as a "bad day at the office" or one of those things.

Smartie
22-03-2015, 11:41 PM
I'd leave Fyvie out. As good a player as he is, i still think he is a tad over weight and a bit slow (pace wise).

I disagree. On recent form he'd be my first pick. Followed by McGeoch then Robertson.

Allan is our best player but just hasn't shown it of late and nobody is undroppable (see our club captain sitting on the bench) so whilst it is a tough decision, he would miss out for me, and it would have been him that I would have hooked at half-time to change it today.

number9dream
23-03-2015, 10:19 AM
Fyvie is a great addition to the squad, no doubt. However, with him Allan and McGeouch all playing deep and Robbo doing the sitting, there is no one running beyond the striker's from a central position.
While the whole team was pretty much off the boil yesterday, I was amazed to see McGeouch in particular playing virtually in front of our central defenders. A diamond relies on the full-backs for width and Rangers neutralised Gray / Watson with Wallace, who was impressive. But we could have simply done the same by overloading on the left against McGregor, who is way too chunky to be an effective wing-back. Without a left-sided midfielder, we struggled as Allan and Fyvie always drifted inside.
I thought Robbo was just about our best player in the second half and shared his obvious surprise when he was replaced.

Much to ponder for a play-off meeting with Gers but I think we can be pretty confident that the away team will certainly line-up 3-5-2 in each game...

NorthNorfolkHFC
23-03-2015, 10:43 AM
It's all when and good playing 4-4-2 against the lesser teams of the championship, who play 1 up front, allowing the centre backs to sit with full back pushing on. I think that today was a lesson leant, don't play your best 11 players, play your best players who fit the formation.

Stubbs talked all week about usplaying our own game but we really have to be wise as to how others play, Rangers came and stopped us playing and implenmented their own plan. We were naive and cant afford to be going into playoffs.

Elephant Stone
23-03-2015, 10:47 AM
Robertson was definitely our best player yesterday. Thought McGeough was decent as well, always raises the tempo when he gets the ball.

GreenOnions
23-03-2015, 10:58 AM
After today I'd lose Robertson as Fyvie is easily capable of playing the deeper defensive midfield role, McGeouch showed once again he can tackle, pass and drive forward and Allan although not playing great this past few weeks is still our best midfielder. I thought Robertson today was extremely poor, gave the ball away a lot and seemed to do his headless chicken act again, if we do go up then I feel Robertson isn't really good enough to be playing top league anymore, we have to start looking forward as a club.

Opinions eh! I felt Robertson was our best midfielder by some distance yesterday and one of only two or three players in the team to get pass marks. He was taken off in order to put on a more attacking player rather than because he hadn't done well

Brightside
23-03-2015, 11:41 AM
Really scratching my head at your assessment...

Yes it was a poor performance today and very dissapointing but I think you are turning towards an easy scapegoat due to last seasons debacle. If Craig had been playing I'm sure it would have been him.

As far as I'm concerned Robertson has been excellent this season and was one of our better players today. Singling him out for abuse today is poor form.

Robertson did very little wrong on Sunday. the goals certianly didnt come through him. Dylan, Fyvie, and Allan were very much in and out of the game...poor passing, not finding space, resorting to high balls. Far too many Soccer AM passes attempted.

TheFamous1875
23-03-2015, 11:52 AM
Robertson's the only centre-midfielder who is indispensable. He's the sole reason the other three have the licence to perform in the way that they do.

I do think we need another alternative approach to matches though, and I have thought this for a few weeks. We have the talent, and the fitness, etc, to beat any team in this league, but we should never rely on one player, or on one starting XI, or on one formation. We need to have more options in our approach to the tougher games, such as the semi final or the playoffs.

Personally, The one who gets dropped is the one who's currently contributing the least to the team, and right now that's Scott Allan, who's arguably our best player/best player in the league.

I think it's possible that the team are becoming a bit lethargic; they know they're better than most others, and our fixture list has enabled them to become perhaps a bit complacent. Games like the one against Livingston should've been done and dusted, not "oh, they've equalised - better get up there and get a goal back in the next 30+ seconds".

The set up and the performances of late have been rather samey and I think we've possibly wasted some good opportunities to try out different formations and use the squad (how's Jordon Forster not got a start?). 3-5-2 might be plan B, but what about C, D and E?

We need to have plans and options and beyond the first ones, and I hope yesterday was a blip and that Stubbs knows what he should be doing in the run up to the end of the season when the **** hits the fan.

JimBHibees
23-03-2015, 03:29 PM
So that would be the QOS game then.

I think it would be the Dumbarton game away as any suspension would kick in 14 days after offence.

allezsauzee
23-03-2015, 05:19 PM
I thought Scott Robertson was our best player yesterday. I would have had Liam Craig in the team yesterday for a bit more dig in midfield, maybe with Allan playing a more advanced role.

ancient hibee
23-03-2015, 08:08 PM
Fyvie is a great addition to the squad, no doubt. However, with him Allan and McGeouch all playing deep and Robbo doing the sitting, there is no one running beyond the striker's from a central position.
While the whole team was pretty much off the boil yesterday, I was amazed to see McGeouch in particular playing virtually in front of our central defenders. A diamond relies on the full-backs for width and Rangers neutralised Gray / Watson with Wallace, who was impressive. But we could have simply done the same by overloading on the left against McGregor, who is way too chunky to be an effective wing-back. Without a left-sided midfielder, we struggled as Allan and Fyvie always drifted inside.
I thought Robbo was just about our best player in the second half and shared his obvious surprise when he was replaced.

Much to ponder for a play-off meeting with Gers but I think we can be pretty confident that the away team will certainly line-up 3-5-2 in each game...

Far from him being surprised I believe it was discussed at half time.

J-C
24-03-2015, 04:01 PM
After much thought I do tend to agree with the majority and think Robertson is a mainstay in the midfield, my reasoning for this is Fyvie/McGeouch and Allan are all pretty similar and although the interplay between them can be very good at times they all seem to want to come deep for tha ball and start of the playmaking, which in turn means there's no one moving forward to link up with the forwards. Robertson knows his role and does it well, he has more discipline to his game where the others are more mavericks, hence why Craig playing on sunday may have added a bit of stabilty.

Smartie
24-03-2015, 04:17 PM
After much thought I do tend to agree with the majority and think Robertson is a mainstay in the midfield, my reasoning for this is Fyvie/McGeouch and Allan are all pretty similar and although the interplay between them can be very good at times they all seem to want to come deep for tha ball and start of the playmaking, which in turn means there's no one moving forward to link up with the forwards. Robertson knows his role and does it well, he has more discipline to his game where the others are more mavericks, hence why Craig playing on sunday may have added a bit of stabilty.

I agree with this.

I actually think that most of our midfielders are similar. Robertson is imo best as one of the "middle 2" of the diamond (as well as McGeoch, Allan, Fyvie and Craig) but Robertson is the one who has made the best effort in the position that suits him less, therefore he is a stick-on at the base of the diamond for me.

Whilst I wouldn't say I am a Danny Handling fan (I am certainly not a hater either) he seems most comfortable of the players who we have played at the tip of the diamond and as a team I think we have actually looked much better with him in there (even though I'd say he's a weaker player than most of our other midfielders). Maybe something to think about.

To be honest I've been pretty impressed with the fleeting appearances Sam Stanton has made this season and if we were to play the diamond then I'd be tempted to give him a shot there. Our set-pieces on Sunday were brutal whereas some of the balls he put in against Berwick the other week were superb. Before joining Hibs this would have been the position I would have expected Liam Craig to play for us too. I don't think that this is the position for either Allan, McGeoch or Fyvie though, they are all better deeper.

If it were up to me I'd be thinking about potentially leaving out a couple of our best players for the good of the shape of the team and I'd be surprised if Stubbs doesn't come up with some eyebrow-raising line-ups in the weeks to come.

TheFamous1875
24-03-2015, 05:07 PM
I agree with this.

I actually think that most of our midfielders are similar. Robertson is imo best as one of the "middle 2" of the diamond (as well as McGeoch, Allan, Fyvie and Craig) but Robertson is the one who has made the best effort in the position that suits him less, therefore he is a stick-on at the base of the diamond for me.

Whilst I wouldn't say I am a Danny Handling fan (I am certainly not a hater either) he seems most comfortable of the players who we have played at the tip of the diamond and as a team I think we have actually looked much better with him in there (even though I'd say he's a weaker player than most of our other midfielders). Maybe something to think about.

To be honest I've been pretty impressed with the fleeting appearances Sam Stanton has made this season and if we were to play the diamond then I'd be tempted to give him a shot there. Our set-pieces on Sunday were brutal whereas some of the balls he put in against Berwick the other week were superb. Before joining Hibs this would have been the position I would have expected Liam Craig to play for us too. I don't think that this is the position for either Allan, McGeoch or Fyvie though, they are all better deeper.

If it were up to me I'd be thinking about potentially leaving out a couple of our best players for the good of the shape of the team and I'd be surprised if Stubbs doesn't come up with some eyebrow-raising line-ups in the weeks to come.


Spot on. Re: Allan, it's worth noting that his dip in form has coincided with him playing as the #10. He's much better in a less advanced role. I'd still like to see Liam Craig at the tip, but on evidence, Stanton's the most suited in the squad in my opinion.