Log in

View Full Version : Match Updates Hibernian 0 - 2 Rangers [FT]



Pages : 1 [2]

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
Stanton on for Robbo.

Get him on the corners, delivers a far better ball than Allan.

Ajo
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
Awful awful performance.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
2-0 easy peasy

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
2-0.

Hibs players claim for a free kick, Miller plays the whistle.

HH81
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
Game over 0-2

Ajo
22-03-2015, 01:25 PM
Hibs players completely stopped. WTF?!?!!

SJNB Hibby
22-03-2015, 01:26 PM
Wtf????

Forever_Green93
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
That was a free kick

WillowbraeHibby
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
That was a foul surely!!!!!!!!

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
That is one of the most unprofessional things I've seen on a football pitch. Every Hibs player stoped to claim for a foul whilst Miller literally walked into the box and picked his spot.

Crazy and we'll get exactly ehat we deserce now.

GreenLake
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Referee calls nothing on Hanlon haymakering

SJNB Hibby
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Mirror image of the last game

LancashireHibby
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Didn't think it was possible to lose to the Huns AND Hearts on the same day. I feel sick.

Ajo
22-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Play to the whistle FFS Hibs. Amateur stuff.

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
Doesn't matter id it's a foul or not you play the ****ing whistle.

you're taught that at about 5 year old.

Nando™
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
Didn't think it was possible to lose to the Huns AND Hearts on the same day. I feel sick.

Meaning what?

Keith_M
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
No surprise. Did anyone really think they were going to struggle for the rest of the season?


Me.

Just as I type this, it's 2-0.

Most humiliating result of the season.

Del Boy
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
Not a good day

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
bottom three clubs battle for draws with them and we hand them 3 points, still at least the celebrating yamboids won't be doing anything out of the normal by cheering for the huns

Greenblood70
22-03-2015, 01:28 PM
Blatant foul, ridiculous decision not to give the free kick.

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:29 PM
14075 crowd.

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:29 PM
Didn't think it was possible to lose to the Huns AND Hearts on the same day. I feel sick.

You have obviously not supported Hibs for long? Edit - Just noticed you are only 28 lol!

SteveHFC
22-03-2015, 01:29 PM
Losing to a 3 year old club is embarrasing.

Bostonhibby
22-03-2015, 01:30 PM
We were going nowhere at the time but decent assistance to the rangers cause from the ref there and it won't be the last time this season. Clear foul

Lago
22-03-2015, 01:30 PM
Down to earth with a bump today, play offs will not be easy.

NORTHERNHIBBY
22-03-2015, 01:31 PM
Got to write this one off and pick up and go again. Third best of two today. Only consolation for us is that everything has gone wrong today. No one player to pick on.

LancashireHibby
22-03-2015, 01:31 PM
Meaning what?
Meaning we've (probably) lost the game today, and Hearts get a trophy out of it.

Wasn't actually insinuating the Hearts-Rangers love in, that goes without saying!

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:31 PM
Hanlon MOTM

McHibby
22-03-2015, 01:31 PM
I always expect Rangers to get the rub-of-the-green but the how the hell was that not a foul before the goal. Jesus.

SaulGoodman
22-03-2015, 01:31 PM
No wonder the players stopped though. A more blatant foul you will never see

SJNB Hibby
22-03-2015, 01:32 PM
Well I've had a nasty feeling the last few weeks that we'd win all the league games and theyd dump us out in the play-offs. At least now we'll know we have to work every game

Biggie
22-03-2015, 01:32 PM
Blatant free kick to hibs, that left a gaping hole in the defence....unbelievable decision.
Having said that, that's hibs to a t.........poor performance, missed a great chance with Fontaines header.....

Onion
22-03-2015, 01:33 PM
Wallace man of the match by a mile. A Yam wins the Yams the league. Hibs were pish first 45 and big wake up call.

SlickShoes
22-03-2015, 01:33 PM
We've ben ***** thoug, not ben had a shot on target, says it all.

SteveHFC
22-03-2015, 01:33 PM
Well that's the end of my match threads

Cropley10
22-03-2015, 01:33 PM
First time we've seen a return to referring that clearly favours one side this season.

Collum did every thing in his powers today.

Nando™
22-03-2015, 01:33 PM
Meaning we've (probably) lost the game today, and Hearts get a trophy out of it.

Wasn't actually insinuating the Hearts-Rangers love in, that goes without saying!

Ach this two-bit trophy isn't worth getting worked up about. I'm sure they'll celebrate it like their champions league triumphs though.

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
No wonder the players stopped though. A more blatant foul you will never see

Doesn't matter.

The ref clearly waved play on, if we kept playing Miller would have had to beat 2 or 3 men instead he walked into the box and picked his spot.

Do your job and then go nuts at the ref after, don't just stop. I'd say it's schoolboy stuff but schoolboys don't make that kind of error.

SouthMoroccoStu
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
Blatant foul, ridiculous decision not to give the free kick.

This

Hanlon taken out.

No foul and Hun advantage.

Joke of a decision when we were on top.

Sfa performing there Hunnish duties

Mr Grieves
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
Walker is an absolute fanny. The hibs players stopped because it was a blatent foul. Ridiculous decision

Forza Fred
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
We could play for a wet week of Sundays, and we still wouldn't score.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
wonder if peter houston is already thinking about a 5 in midfield for the semi-final

David_D
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
we could play another 90 mins and still not have a shot on target. Really not good enough.

Keith_M
22-03-2015, 01:34 PM
Completely unnacceptable to be turned over by that pile of ***** on our own patch.


Heads need knocked together to get them ready for the remainder of the season.

Cropley10
22-03-2015, 01:35 PM
And Kenny Miller - is there a more rat-faced Hun loving player out there

Greenblood70
22-03-2015, 01:35 PM
Dust ourselves down, shake this result off and go again, very bad day at the office today, probably up there with our worst this season.

LancashireHibby
22-03-2015, 01:36 PM
Doesn't matter.

The ref clearly waved play on, if we kept playing Miller would have had to beat 2 or 3 men instead he walked into the box and picked his spot.

Do your job and then go nuts at the ref after, don't just stop. I'd say it's schoolboy stuff but schoolboys don't make that kind of error.

Completely agree. Get the danger cleared and then argue your corner.

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:36 PM
The bizarre thing is and in true Hibernian style.....Hibs have romped in their games against the huns this season and yet crucially Cheats #2 have won the league and Cheats #1 will end up in pole position in the play offs.

It's the Hibernian way.

Lago
22-03-2015, 01:36 PM
Wallace has done to Hibs what Gray normally does, we have not got to grips with him at all.

Golden Bear
22-03-2015, 01:37 PM
We've missed Cummings big style. No pace or movement up front today and these are the qualities that the young guy normally brings to the team.

Bristolhibby
22-03-2015, 01:37 PM
The bizarre thing is and in true Hibernian style.....Hibs have romped in their games against the huns this season and yet crucially Cheats #2 have won the league and Cheats #1 will end up in pole position in the play offs.

It's the Hibernian way.

Was saying as much to my Dad. We are all Hibs fans remember, this club has yet unthought of ways to kick us in the bollox.

J

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:37 PM
Dust ourselves down, shake this result off and go again, very bad day at the office today, probably up there with our worst this season.

Does not work that way.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:37 PM
and to think we could have been only the 2nd team to beat the huns four times in one season

SaulGoodman
22-03-2015, 01:38 PM
Stupid stupid foul

SouthMoroccoStu
22-03-2015, 01:38 PM
Ref has played advantage a lot when advantage hasn't been there

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:39 PM
mccoll still never lost a game at ER, credit where it's due me thinks

zlatan
22-03-2015, 01:39 PM
Collum woeful but no shots on target against that back three is serious cause for concern. Crucial that Farid and Cummings are available for the play offs

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:39 PM
Was saying as much to my Dad. We are all Hibs fans remember, this club has yet unthought of ways to kick us in the bollox.

J

This club can kick me in the bollox all day long but I will always be proud I chose Hibs over any club.

R'Albin
22-03-2015, 01:40 PM
Why is Oxley running at that ball like a ****ing idiot? At least set yourself and make it slightly difficult for the striker.

Forza Fred
22-03-2015, 01:40 PM
Out muscled from the start

Maybe some believed their own publicity.

Learn from it and move on.

Not the end of the world, but an inevitable hiccup on the way.

Silky
22-03-2015, 01:40 PM
First time we've seen a return to referring that clearly favours one side this season.

Collum did every thing in his powers today.

Can we no just accept that we were not good enough? Poor tactics and poor set up today. Canny always be someone else's fault.

Cropley10
22-03-2015, 01:40 PM
Ref has played advantage a lot when advantage hasn't been there

The ref did everything he could today. Worst refereeing I've seen this season.

dp00
22-03-2015, 01:41 PM
Can we no just accept that we were not good enough? Poor tactics and poor set up today. Canny always be someone else's fault.

This.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Onion
22-03-2015, 01:41 PM
We've missed Cummings big style. No pace or movement up front today and these are the qualities that the young guy normally brings to the team.

:top marks JC has terrorised the Huns this season with his pace, movement and energy. JJ was poor replacement, horrible performance.

LancashireHibby
22-03-2015, 01:41 PM
Poor performance all round and maybe a bit of a wake up call.

MileHighBees
22-03-2015, 01:41 PM
Poor result. Poor performance.
Need a reaction next week.

Jim44
22-03-2015, 01:42 PM
Well I've had a nasty feeling the last few weeks that we'd win all the league games and theyd dump us out in the play-offs. At least now we'll know we have to work every game

:agree: I've been a wee bit uncomfortable being the team to beat and continually being talked up as the team likely to win the playoffs. Back down to earth with a bump and our target has to be 3rd or 4th and a chance of promotion. This was a massive result for them and McCall won't let it slide away. :tin hat:

HIBERNIAN-0762
22-03-2015, 01:42 PM
What lodge is Collum in? the worst decision I've seen this season, a clear foul for us but having said all that we were absolute murder.

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:42 PM
A few harsh words needed I think.

Performance standards have to be good every week and today they were a million miles from good enough. Individual mistakes and failing to adjust to their set up killed us today.

Forza Fred
22-03-2015, 01:43 PM
Can we no just accept that we were not good enough? Poor tactics and poor set up today. Canny always be someone else's fault.

Spot on.

We hardly had a shot on goal and our crossing was woeful

Nobody's fault but our own

We can't win every game.

Cropley10
22-03-2015, 01:43 PM
Can we no just accept that we were not good enough? Poor tactics and poor set up today. Canny always be someone else's fault.

We never got to grips with their 3-5-2 for sure, but Collum was a huge factor. Constant fouling, and then the biggest incident of the game.

Scott Allan playing like a Rangers fan didn't help either

Golden Bear
22-03-2015, 01:43 PM
Can we no just accept that we were not good enough? Poor tactics and poor set up today. Canny always be someone else's fault.

I agree. It's nobody's fault but our own that we couldn't muster a single shot on target.

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:44 PM
The problem we face is that if you defined one single match to jump start the huns it would be their game against us.

It is a shot in the arm to them and a kick in the balls to us at a crucial time in the season.

GreenLake
22-03-2015, 01:44 PM
That was the worst I have seen us play in a while. Hopefully that will be a temporary glitch on the way to promotion.

J-C
22-03-2015, 01:45 PM
McCall set his team up to negate Stevenso and Gray and it worked, Djedje was a passenger and we missed Cummings energy. Allan needs a rest, been poor for weeks now with McGeouch looking more like the man to make things happen. Stubbs needs to use another system when teams stop us playing, 4-2-3-1 maybe but something a wee bit different when its not working.

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:45 PM
We never got to grips with their 3-5-2 for sure, but Collum was a huge factor. Constant fouling, and then the biggest incident of the game.

Scott Allan playing like a Rangers fan didn't help either

Stupid comment. McGregor and Wallace are Hibees. Suppose their performance did not help either?

stoneyburn hibs
22-03-2015, 01:46 PM
Bad day at the office. I'm sure that the players can shake it off and get back to winning.

Greenblood70
22-03-2015, 01:46 PM
Does not work that way.

What do you suggest oh wise one!:greengrin

rcarter1
22-03-2015, 01:47 PM
Spot on.

We hardly had a shot on goal and our crossing was woeful

Nobody's fault but our own

We can't win every game.

We'd noticed.. :boo hoo:

Callum_62
22-03-2015, 01:47 PM
We never got to grips with their 3-5-2 for sure, but Collum was a huge factor. Constant fouling, and then the biggest incident of the game.



And at a time we were constantly pushing - a time were Rangers were looking a bit dead on there feet

we were rank, particularly 1st half - we would have been allowed to play on if it was at the other end through? more than doubtful

Hamish
22-03-2015, 01:47 PM
:agree: I've been a wee bit uncomfortable being the team to beat and continually being talked up as the team likely to win the playoffs. Back down to earth with a bump and our target has to be 3rd or 4th and a chance of promotion. This was a massive result for them and McCall won't let it slide away. :tin hat:

We need a maximum 17 points from the last 8 games to guarantee a play off spot.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:48 PM
The problem we face is that if you defined one single match to jump start the huns it would be their game against us.

It is a shot in the arm to them and a kick in the balls to us at a crucial time in the season.



now that's one stat that hibs have been famous for over the last several decades unfortunately

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:49 PM
just incase anyones interested


liverpoodle 0 man u 2 after 61 mins

Pete
22-03-2015, 01:50 PM
Does not work that way.

How does it work then? Wallow in self pity?

I'm glad the people at our club don't share your way of thinking.

SkintHibby
22-03-2015, 01:50 PM
What do you suggest oh wise one!:greengrin

Not oh wise one......try oh drunk one! :greengrin

Golden Bear
22-03-2015, 01:52 PM
I'd rather lose this one than the play off fixtures. In a way, it takes the pressure off us.

Onceinawhile
22-03-2015, 01:54 PM
just incase anyones interested


liverpoodle 0 man u 2 after 61 mins

Thanks. Watching it on record and didn't know the score.

Oh well fast forward to 61 minutes.

WillowbraeHibby
22-03-2015, 01:55 PM
I'd rather lose this one than the play off fixtures. In a way, it takes the pressure off us.


Dinnae want to lose any games.... Especially this one! Canny get my heed roond how bad we were?? :confused:

Steve20
22-03-2015, 01:55 PM
I'd rather lose this one than the play off fixtures. In a way, it takes the pressure off us.

Now they know they can beat us, it gives them a big lift. Hibs should be ashamed to put in a performance like that.

Greenblood70
22-03-2015, 01:55 PM
Not oh wise one......try oh drunk one! :greengrin


Ha ha :cheers: I think I'll drown my sorrows as well.

We'll bounce back Im sure of it, some honest talking required and focus on what we've done well most of the season and we'll get back on track. It is concerning that we seem to struggle to combat teams playing 5 in midfield, time for a wee rethink there maybe.

Onion
22-03-2015, 01:57 PM
I'd rather lose this one than the play off fixtures. In a way, it takes the pressure off us.

:agree: Only +ve you can take from today.

We've said all along that momentum was key going onto the POs. Will be interesting to see how today changes that fro Hibs and the Huns.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 01:57 PM
Thanks. Watching it on record and didn't know the score.

Oh well fast forward to 61 minutes.


you're welcome....been another change to the scoreline just now

LancashireHibby
22-03-2015, 01:57 PM
Thanks. Watching it on record and didn't know the score.

Oh well fast forward to 61 minutes.

You might want to start watching it from half time onwards...

Callum_62
22-03-2015, 01:57 PM
Had watched it on Hibs TV - so didn't get a great reply of 2nd goal

just switched to BT sport for analysis....jesus christ Willie Collum, how do you actually miss that?

Hes about 10 yards looking directly at it

Folk call it paranoia, but is anyone really surprised a terrible call went in there favour?

We need to be sensational in the play offs - guaranteed there will be more of the same

Pretty Boy
22-03-2015, 01:58 PM
Old boy giving the Police it tight about the sectarian singing from the Rangers end.

No complaint was made and we can't arrest 3000 people is the answer.

Hannah_hfc
22-03-2015, 02:00 PM
Absolutely livid. Picked it up a little in the second half though final ball was poor. Awful part of the season to be giving them points

green.and.white
22-03-2015, 02:03 PM
Disappointing result and performance. All I ask of you Hibs is please, please don't let today define our season. Let's go and smash Raith Rovers next weekend

Biggie
22-03-2015, 02:04 PM
Old boy giving the Police it tight about the sectarian singing from the Rangers end.

No complaint was made and we can't arrest 3000 people is the answer.

The police are hardly going to start wading in and arresting bodies...that would start a riot (in comparison the Livi game earlier this season would be a Sunday school picnic).........but I do suggest they video the crowd and knock on their doors tomorrow morning......

jacomo
22-03-2015, 02:04 PM
Absolutely livid. Picked it up a little in the second half though final ball was poor. Awful part of the season to be giving them points

Sounds like we got mugged by a more experienced manager today.

Our coaching can reflect on the match and learn from it. Nothing decided today.

cabbageandribs1875
22-03-2015, 02:05 PM
for willie collum

http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/05/diseases/Glasses-1.jpg

tamig
22-03-2015, 02:06 PM
Lee Wallace had the freedom.of Easter Road today. Signs were there from early doors. Stubbs did nothing to change it and he was still causing up problems right to the end.

Johnny_Leith
22-03-2015, 02:08 PM
In the style of Jose Mourinho today can be summed up by two moments:

Dje dje running through and not taking a shot at 0-1

The completely baffling, blatant incompetence of William Collum in not giving a foul on Hanlon for the 2nd goal. How is he still considered a high quality ref??

We beat ourselves today as we didn't perform anywhere near the standard that we can, rangers are still completely average

Baader
22-03-2015, 02:08 PM
Sounds like we got mugged by a more experienced manager today.

Our coaching can reflect on the match and learn from it. Nothing decided today.

Yeah. Disappointing but we move on. Would not have felt confident at all meeting that bunch in the playoffs if we'd beaten them every game. Let the Chic Youngs espouse about how great they are - if it takes pressure of us then we're better off for it. On saying that playoffs will not be easy by any means and the men in black are stepping up to aid their beloved Govan brothers. Players will know there a battle ahead and we need to be better than we were today.

WillowbraeHibby
22-03-2015, 02:11 PM
Really disappointed with the display today, what the h*ll went so wrong...?

Sevco were always going to stop us playing our game, but we let them, that's what annoys me.

Certainly wisnae happy wi' Gollum, that was another howler.... stonewall foul.

I suppose that being a Hibby is all about ups and doons..... Certainly a downer today..... :(

SouthMoroccoStu
22-03-2015, 02:12 PM
Watching the game in a bar in Kent. Locals interested in the game as I was there. 1st question - how did he get away with that (their 2nd goal)? 2nd question - what are they singing?

Ronniekirk
22-03-2015, 03:51 PM
Just back from game and gutted at way we seemed to give them the initiative in first half and it gave them confidence We didn't really get going ,and the closed down space and had the Ox kicking long which played right into thier hands We seemed to lack confidence and creativity

21.05.2016
22-03-2015, 04:15 PM
Old boy giving the Police it tight about the sectarian singing from the Rangers end.

No complaint was made and we can't arrest 3000 people is the answer.

How long till we hear the "its just a minority" pish

Stuarty27
22-03-2015, 04:31 PM
The whole end was singing:

The Huns are having a party, the Huns are having a party, the tims are sh agging weans.

If that doesn't deserve a ban I am no sure what does

Pete
22-03-2015, 04:37 PM
The whole end was singing:

The Huns are having a party, the Huns are having a party, the tims are sh agging weans.

If that doesn't deserve a ban I am no sure what does


You'll still get Celtic players and journalists (catholic ones included) telling us how we need this mob in the top flight for the good of our countries game.

We're a laughing stock. Again.

Feed McGraw
22-03-2015, 06:12 PM
In the style of Jose Mourinho today can be summed up by two moments:

Dje dje running through and not taking a shot at 0-1

The completely baffling, blatant incompetence of William Collum in not giving a foul on Hanlon for the 2nd goal. How is he still considered a high quality ref??

We beat ourselves today as we didn't perform anywhere near the standard that we can, rangers are still completely average Why he never shot when he had the chance I will never know. I would`ve thought a striker in that position would have slammed that into the corner of the net, but he decided to square it when that absolutely wasn`t on. No real, chance to be a hero completely blown.

trev the hat
22-03-2015, 06:41 PM
McCall set his team up to negate Stevenso and Gray and it worked, Djedje was a passenger and we missed Cummings energy. Allan needs a rest, been poor for weeks now with McGeouch looking more like the man to make things happen. Stubbs needs to use another system when teams stop us playing, 4-2-3-1 maybe but something a wee bit different when its not working.

Agreed J, Stubbs formation & selection was wrong, I'd rather he held his hands up & said he got it wrong. McCalls experience as a manager was evident today. How Stubbs thought DJDJ & Malonga would work is beyond me. Huns playing 3-5-2 was predicted by most & it's not difficult to see that's what causes us most problems at ER this year. It could have been pre emptied by matching up & winning individual battles. Take Note for play off please AS.

emerald green
22-03-2015, 06:53 PM
The whole end was singing:

The Huns are having a party, the Huns are having a party, the tims are sh agging weans.

If that doesn't deserve a ban I am no sure what does

Before every match at ER they play an announcement. It's something about up to 10 years banning orders throughout the UK and Europe for acts of unacceptable sectarian behaviour bla bla bla. It's just a joke.

Today we had the song you mention, The Sash, the Bouncy Bouncy song, Rule Britannia etc and I don't think a single one of them was arrested. I certainly didn't see any of them being pulled out of the stands,put it that way. They know they can do it and they will keep doing it.

I posted earlier today, that 5 of them were lifted after their game at Raith Rovers for sectarian chanting. I think they were caught on film and lifted later. I wonder if any of them will get the same after today's game?

I suggest that their club gets a points deduction for stuff like today, but the cowards running the game in this country won't do it. Until they get serious about this issue, rather than paying lip service, it will not stop.

leggeto
22-03-2015, 07:05 PM
They were singing the dambusters tune aswell, were we supposed to be offended or wound up by that,don't they know that half our grandads were in the army.

Tools the lot of them.

hfc-1875
22-03-2015, 08:40 PM
Not seen anyone mention oxley on here yet. Surely I can't be the only one who thought he was rotten today?

andrew70
22-03-2015, 08:55 PM
http://www.scotzine.com/2015/03/rangers-win-to-stubb-out-hibs-run/#more-28672

leggeto
22-03-2015, 11:16 PM
Not seen anyone mention oxley on here yet. Surely I can't be the only one who thought he was rotten today?

He was,looked a bag of nerves flapping at everything even when not under pressure, was not at fault for the goals though

Brightside
23-03-2015, 06:39 AM
Not seen anyone mention oxley on here yet. Surely I can't be the only one who thought he was rotten today?

He can't catch high balls. And never comes off his line at corners. It's a real worry. Hanlon and Fontaine have covered for him all season

Thecat23
23-03-2015, 06:42 AM
Not seen anyone mention oxley on here yet. Surely I can't be the only one who thought he was rotten today?

I've said it most of the season, he's not a good keeper he's bang average and if we went up I don't think he's good enough to be our number 1. He can't catch cross balls and his positioning for a few goals lost this season have been questionable!

Nakedmanoncrack
23-03-2015, 12:25 PM
Very poor display, but what about the utter clown in the West throwing scarf onto pitch after second?