In the name of religion.

[Jim44]

A few weeks ago I posted about the young girls running off to join ISIS. This topic and other media references to ISIS has rarely left the news for weeks. It got me thinking about this terrorist faction and the term used to describe them - ISIS. This clearly refers to Islam which as far as I understand is a religion. Does any world religion advocate or support the atrocities carried out by this faction? If the answer is 'no', why does the rest of the world accept and refer to their chosen name? To do so somehow implies acceptance of and give credence to their outrageous religious claims. Would it not be more acceptable and appropriate to refer to them as MVS - ' murderous, v•rm•n state', for example?

[(((Fergus)))]

Not sure I follow your logic.

[Jim44]

Not sure I follow your logic.

To include the term 'Islamic' in their name suggests there is some religious truth or significance in their cause. I am sure the Islamic religion would denounce any links with them. Their inclusion of the term 'Islamic' in their name is therefore unacceptable and invalid. If a group of young, say, fundamentalist Catholic or Protestant men set up a terrorist organisation, whose methods were similar to the group in question and called themselves the 'young Christian state', would it be accepted and used as a justified name? I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts but basically I'm questioning their right to call themselves Islamic and the rest of the world's acceptance of them as Islamic.

[HibsMax]

ISIS is a term used by (some of) the West. The correct term to use is daesh. From what I have read and heard recently, we shouldn't be using the term ISIS at all.

[easty]

To include the term 'Islamic' in their name suggests there is some religious truth or significance in their cause. I am sure the Islamic religion would denounce any links with them. Their inclusion of the term 'Islamic' in their name is therefore unacceptable and invalid. If a group of young, say, fundamentalist Catholic or Protestant men set up a terrorist organisation, whose methods were similar to the group in question and called themselves the 'young Christian state', would it be accepted and used as a justified name? I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts but basically I'm questioning their right to call themselves Islamic and the rest of the world's acceptance of them as Islamic.

They can call themelves whatever they want though. The religion Islam doesnt hold a trademark on the name Islam anyway, does it? Even if it did, it wouldn't stop ISIS using the name, they're terrorists, who could stop them?

They could call themselves Disney State, it wouldnt mean that Disney supported them, or that they spoke for Disney.

[HibsMax]

They can call themelves whatever they want though. The religion Islam doesnt hold a trademark on the name Islam anyway, does it? Even if it did, it wouldn't stop ISIS using the name, they're terrorists, who could stop them?

They could call themselves Disney State, it wouldnt mean that Disney supported them, or that they spoke for Disney.
You're right, but it doesn't help when other people use the name as well. Let them call themselves what they want, we can't stop them, but we can make a conscious decision when picking a name to use when referring to them. I think "terrorists" sounds pretty snappy.

[Jim44]

You're right, but it doesn't help when other people use the name as well. Let them call themselves what they want, we can't stop them, but we can make a conscious decision when picking a name to use when referring to them. I think "terrorists" sounds pretty snappy.

Nail on head.

[Pretty Boy]

It's a tricky one.

Finding an accurate name is a tough task as translating from Arabic to English isn't always easy, hence much of the misintepretation (perhaps mulitple interpretation is a better phrase) of the Quran. IS or ISIS or ISIL probably served a purpose initially as they themselves had used it. Now though due to the refusal of many Muslim groups, governements and the UN to acknowledge it it's probably time to find another. Deash isn't a wholly accurate acronym but it nearly works.

I suppose the flip side is that we use names all the time for groups that don't truly represent what's in the name. The 'communist' governements in China and North Korea bear little resemblance to any ideology of Marx for example.

[snooky]

They can call themelves whatever they want though. The religion Islam doesnt hold a trademark on the name Islam anyway, does it? Even if it did, it wouldn't stop ISIS using the name, they're terrorists, who could stop them?

They could call themselves Disney State, it wouldnt mean that Disney supported them, or that they spoke for Disney.

Agreed. Disney matter one jot.

[Sir David Gray]

To include the term 'Islamic' in their name suggests there is some religious truth or significance in their cause. I am sure the Islamic religion would denounce any links with them. Their inclusion of the term 'Islamic' in their name is therefore unacceptable and invalid. If a group of young, say, fundamentalist Catholic or Protestant men set up a terrorist organisation, whose methods were similar to the group in question and called themselves the 'young Christian state', would it be accepted and used as a justified name? I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts but basically I'm questioning their right to call themselves Islamic and the rest of the world's acceptance of them as Islamic.

The people running the Westboro Baptist Church in the USA are not what you would describe as conventional Baptists but they continue to use that name.

The people involved with I.S. consider themselves to be Muslim so I don't see the need to change their name.

[lord bunberry]

The people running the Westboro Baptist Church in the USA are not what you would describe as conventional Baptists but they continue to use that name.

The people involved with I.S. consider themselves to be Muslim so I don't see the need to change their name.
If I was a Muslim I'd be offended that these barbarians were using being associated with what I believed in. If enough Muslims in this country complained at the term Isis being used the news channels would stop using it.

[Sir David Gray]

If I was a Muslim I'd be offended that these barbarians were using being associated with what I believed in. If enough Muslims in this country complained at the term Isis being used the news channels would stop using it.

Whilst not the majority by any stretch of the imagination, there's unfortunately enough people in the world who would identify themselves as being Muslim and who also sympathise with, and support, this group, in order for their name to be justified.

[Beefster]

The IRA wasn't an army. Hezbollah refers to something to do with Allah. We tend to use whatever name (or translation of that name) that the terrorists use themselves.

Given that they're trying to establish a caliphate, it could be argued that IS/ISIS/ISIL has a more accurate name that most terrorist organisations.

[Sylar]

In fairness, both the BBC and Sky refer to them as 'the so-called Islamic State' more often than not, certainly in their spoken news.

[Andy74]

The IRA wasn't an army. Hezbollah refers to something to do with Allah. We tend to use whatever name (or translation of that name) that the terrorists use themselves.

Given that they're trying to establish a caliphate, it could be argued that IS/ISIS/ISIL has a more accurate name that most terrorist organisations.

The IRA was an army.

[GlesgaeHibby]

If I was a Muslim I'd be offended that these barbarians were using being associated with what I believed in. If enough Muslims in this country complained at the term Isis being used the news channels would stop using it.

ISIS are Islamic though. Moderate Muslims in this country distance themselves from ISIS claiming they are not Islamic, but the reality is that ISIS are Islamic, they find justification in the Koran for what they are doing.

[Pretty Boy]

ISIS are Islamic though. Moderate Muslims in this country distance themselves from ISIS claiming they are not Islamic, but the reality is that ISIS are Islamic, they find justification in the Koran for what they are doing.

Those vile people who harrass women outside abortion clinics find justification for what they do in the Bible. I wouldn't habitually refer to them as Christian though (I could think of plenty other things I'd call them though).

[Beefster]

The IRA was an army.

IMHO they were a paramilitary organisation but I've no desire to get into a debate about the IRA and I don't think it makes much difference to my point.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I couldnae care what anyone is terming them as, they are still murdering bassas!

[GlesgaeHibby]

Those vile people who harrass women outside abortion clinics find justification for what they do in the Bible. I wouldn't habitually refer to them as Christian though (I could think of plenty other things I'd call them though).

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

A long but very interesting article on ISIS.

On your point, I'd refer to them as Islamic Extremists. They find justification in the Koran. They have set up a caliphate and expect all obedient Muslims to join them. To refer to them as 'un-islamic' as Obama did is misguided.

[Stranraer]

Not sure I follow your logic.

Me neither, I've toyed with religion in my past but to me it is just too ridiculous to believe. I mean, it makes intelligent people say the most stupid of things.

Mehdi Hasan actually believes the prophet Muhammad (PBUH?) went to the moon on a flying horse. This coming from a well respected journalist and writer. Unbelievable.