Hibs best managers by win ratio since the war

[worcesterhibby]

Obviously this is slightly skewed in favour of Stubbsie and Alex Mcleish as they both managed in div 1/championship

1) - Jock Stein - (in charge for 50 matches) 62% win rate
2) - Alan Stubbs - (in charge for 32 matches) 57% win rate
3) - Willie McFarlane - (in charge for 60 matches) 52% win rate
4) - Hughie Shaw - (in charge for 604 matches) 51% win rate
5) - Bob Shankly - (in charge for 230 matches) 51% win rate

Other selected

Terry Butcher - (in charge for 29 matches) 21% win rate
Pat Fenlon - (in charge for 87 matches) 36% win rate
John Collins - (In charge for 54 matches) 43% win rate
Tony Mowbray - (in charge for 108 matches) 48% win rate
Alex Mcleish - (in charge for 164 matches) 47% win rate

This proves conclusively that Alan Stubbs is our second greatest manager of all time :) :worms:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Obviously this is slightly skewed in favour of Stubbsie and Alex Mcleish as they both managed in div 1/championship

1) - Jock Stein - (in charge for 50 matches) 62% win rate
2) - Alan Stubbs - (in charge for 32 matches) 57% win rate
3) - Willie McFarlane - (in charge for 60 matches) 52% win rate
4) - Hughie Shaw - (in charge for 604 matches) 51% win rate
5) - Bob Shankly - (in charge for 230 matches) 51% win rate

Other selected

Terry Butcher - (in charge for 29 matches) 21% win rate
Pat Fenlon - (in charge for 87 matches) 36% win rate
John Collins - (In charge for 54 matches) 43% win rate
Tony Mowbray - (in charge for 108 matches) 48% win rate
Alex Mcleish - (in charge for 164 matches) 47% win rate

This proves conclusively that Alan Stubbs is our second greatest manager of all time :) :worms:

Interesting reading. :aok:

Any stats on Eddie (****off) Turnbull, and Willie Ormond?

[vercol36]

Having been a Hibee for 26 years, I am incredibly embarrassed that I had to look up Hugh Shaw. Have just read a bit about him since seeing the OP, the man was clearly a Hibs legend. WHY does his name not ring out in the same way as each of the Famous Five?!

[worcesterhibby]

Interesting reading. :aok:

Any stats on Eddie (****off) Turnbull, and Willie Ormond?

Tunrbull - (454 matches) 48%
Ormond - (31 matches) 45%

[--------]

Obviously this is slightly skewed in favour of Stubbsie and Alex Mcleish as they both managed in div 1/championship

1) - Jock Stein - (in charge for 50 matches) 62% win rate
2) - Alan Stubbs - (in charge for 32 matches) 57% win rate
3) - Willie McFarlane - (in charge for 60 matches) 52% win rate
4) - Hughie Shaw - (in charge for 604 matches) 51% win rate
5) - Bob Shankly - (in charge for 230 matches) 51% win rate

Other selected

Terry Butcher - (in charge for 29 matches) 21% win rate
Pat Fenlon - (in charge for 87 matches) 36% win rate
John Collins - (In charge for 54 matches) 43% win rate
Tony Mowbray - (in charge for 108 matches) 48% win rate
Alex Mcleish - (in charge for 164 matches) 47% win rate

This proves conclusively that Alan Stubbs is our second greatest manager of all time :) :worms:


But IIRC in the 6 games between Shankly leaving and Willie Mac arriving when we had NO manager and the training was being supervised by Tam McNiven our results were:

3/9/69: St Mirren H 2-0 W
6/9/69: Partick Thistle H 5-1 W
13/9/69: Celtic A 2-1 W
20/9/69: Raith Rovers H 3-1 W
27/9/69: Hearts A 2-0 W
4/10/69: Morton H 1-0 W

Which is a record of P 6 W 6 L 0 D 0 F 15 A 3 Pts 12 (2 points for a win in those days.)

That's a 100% win rate without a manager. I therefore nominate Tam McNiven, his magic sponge and smelling-salts as our most effective first-team coaching team since the Second World War.

(Willie Mac took us to Ibrox in his first game and we won 3-1 with Peter Marinello in the #9 shirt.)

I admit I'm stirring it, but where does Turnbull come in? :devil:

[Waxy]

Distorted a bit with certain managers bossing us during time in lower divisions.Edit-duh i'm quarter daftie.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Having been a Hibee for 26 years, I am incredibly embarrassed that I had to look up Hugh Shaw. Have just read a bit about him since seeing the OP, the man was clearly a Hibs legend. WHY does his name not ring out in the same way as each of the Famous Five?!

It was a time when people didn't talk too much about "the trainer". It wasn't until the 60s, and the advent of the tracksuit manager, that bosses took on celebrity status. At least that's the way I see it.


Tunrbull - (454 matches) 48%
Ormond - (31 matches) 45%

Cheers, Turnbull would have been crucified in the modern era.

[Hibbyradge]

Our most succeas full manager is Gareth Evans 100%!

[scoopyboy]

Obviously this is slightly skewed in favour of Stubbsie and Alex Mcleish as they both managed in div 1/championship

1) - Jock Stein - (in charge for 50 matches) 62% win rate
2) - Alan Stubbs - (in charge for 32 matches) 57% win rate
3) - Willie McFarlane - (in charge for 60 matches) 52% win rate
4) - Hughie Shaw - (in charge for 604 matches) 51% win rate
5) - Bob Shankly - (in charge for 230 matches) 51% win rate

Other selected

Terry Butcher - (in charge for 29 matches) 21% win rate
Pat Fenlon - (in charge for 87 matches) 36% win rate
John Collins - (In charge for 54 matches) 43% win rate
Tony Mowbray - (in charge for 108 matches) 48% win rate
Alex Mcleish - (in charge for 164 matches) 47% win rate

This proves conclusively that Alan Stubbs is our second greatest manager of all time :) :worms:

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon is our best manager by a mile in over a century. :cb

[Baader]

Very interesting. To add some perspective, Arsene Wenger's win percentage is 58%. Ferguson's was 65%. Both over 1000 matches at clubs with success.

Mowbray's win rate there isnt at all bad. A decent number of games, all top flight in what was a more competitive league. Old Firm still spending a bit, the Gorgie mob financially cheating and a small transfer kitty to work with... Would've thought it to be slightly lower than Eck who had a Championship season... (or whatever it was called then in '98.)

[--------]

Tunrbull - (454 matches) 48%
Ormond - (31 matches) 45%

Thanks - that's better than I thought it would be.

[Turkish Green]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._managers

[Kato]

But IIRC in the 6 games between Shankly leaving and Willie Mac arriving when we had NO manager and the training was being supervised by Tam McNiven our results were:

3/9/69: St Mirren H 2-0 W
6/9/69: Partick Thistle H 5-1 W
13/9/69: Celtic A 2-1 W
20/9/69: Raith Rovers H 3-1 W
27/9/69: Hearts A 2-0 W
4/10/69: Morton H 1-0 W

Which is a record of P 6 W 6 L 0 D 0 F 15 A 3 Pts 12 (2 points for a win in those days.)

That's a 100% win rate without a manager. I therefore nominate Tam McNiven, his magic sponge and smelling-salts as our most effective first-team coaching team since the Second World War.

(Willie Mac took us to Ibrox in his first game and we won 3-1 with Peter Marinello in the #9 shirt.)

I admit I'm stirring it, but where does Turnbull come in? :devil:



There was also Dave Ewing as temporary manager before Turnbull came and Wilson Humphries who I believe was unbeaten in a quite a decent run of games, taking over as Turnbull was hospitalised.

[CockneyRebel]

Interesting reading. :aok:

Any stats on Eddie (****off) Turnbull, and Willie Ormond?

What about the great Calderwood - his legacy must be minging.

[Dashing Bob S]

Tunrbull - (454 matches) 48%
Ormond - (31 matches) 45%

Give us my fave "I would take training but I have to go to Argos to buy a watering can" Calderwood's? Also, who had most goalless draws between Bertie Auld and Alex Miller?

[worcesterhibby]

Calderwood (49 games in charge) 24%

[--------]

There was also Dave Ewing as temporary manager before Turnbull came and Wilson Humphries who I believe was unbeaten in a quite a decent run of games, taking over as Turnbull was hospitalised.


I remember Dave Ewing, but Wilson Humphries? Can't remember him.

[CropleyWasGod]

I remember Dave Ewing, but Wilson Humphries? Can't remember him.

Came from St Mirren IIRC as a coach. Was in charge temporarily, as was said.

As a lad, I remember thinking his first name was a bit rugger-ish to be a proper fitba guy. :greengrin

[Kato]

I remember Dave Ewing, but Wilson Humphries? Can't remember him.

Think it was around '74, Turnbull was pretty ill, probably the early stages of the cancer he later fought off. Humphries was made temporary manager and Hibs went unbeaten a good dozen games or so. Cult figure with us school laddies in Niddrie Mill as he was "The Invincible Wilson Humphries".


Decent playing career with a good Motherwell side. Scored in Motherwell's Cup winning team of the 50's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_Humphries

[CropleyWasGod]

There was also Dave Ewing as temporary manager before Turnbull came and Wilson Humphries who I believe was unbeaten in a quite a decent run of games, taking over as Turnbull was hospitalised.

I remember Ewing as being permanent, albeit he didn't last very long. Wiki isn't very clear about that.

I also remember his famous "Rangers are rubbish" comments. How prescient...:greengrin

[MileHighBees]

Obviously this is slightly skewed in favour of Stubbsie and Alex Mcleish as they both managed in div 1/championship

1) - Jock Stein - (in charge for 50 matches) 62% win rate
2) - Alan Stubbs - (in charge for 32 matches) 57% win rate
3) - Willie McFarlane - (in charge for 60 matches) 52% win rate
4) - Hughie Shaw - (in charge for 604 matches) 51% win rate
5) - Bob Shankly - (in charge for 230 matches) 51% win rate

Other selected

Terry Butcher - (in charge for 29 matches) 21% win rate
Pat Fenlon - (in charge for 87 matches) 36% win rate
John Collins - (In charge for 54 matches) 43% win rate
Tony Mowbray - (in charge for 108 matches) 48% win rate
Alex Mcleish - (in charge for 164 matches) 47% win rate

This proves conclusively that Alan Stubbs is our second greatest manager of all time :) :worms:

Hibs have played 35 games so far this season (28 in the league + 7 cup ties)
Unless I missed something, Alan Stubbs was in charge for all of those games ??
I make it 21 wins out of those 35 games which is 60% :wink:

[Hibby Bairn]

Stubbs OUT. McNiven IN.

[superfurryhibby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._managers

Fascinating reading the stats. Hugh Shaw managed us for more games and longer than anyone else. Also a fine servant as a player, for seven years and then twenty five as a coach and manager.

Looking at them, some great records in there. What could we have achieved if only Stein had stayed around for longer. Turnbull out of the game in his early 50's, with the club almost on it's knees when Tom Hart sold up. If , only Miller could have made his team play to it's talents, I think they should done more and then the Mowbray team........ If only, if only.

[Keith_M]

McLeish had a pretty decent win rate. It's no wonder we played in front of 15,000 ever week in the 1st Division.




:devil:

[Onion]

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon is our best manager by a mile in over a century. :cb

And Stubbs could trump them all by winning the next 2 games :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Statistically, who's our worst ever Manager?


I was thinking Sauzee but I think he doesn't count, as he was only ever temporary.

[jdships]

Having been a Hibee for 26 years, I am incredibly embarrassed that I had to look up Hugh Shaw. Have just read a bit about him since seeing the OP, the man was clearly a Hibs legend. WHY does his name not ring out in the same way as each of the Famous Five?!

Was around when Shaw was the trainer in time of Willie McCartney before being appointed " boss" in 1947 .
As with today there was a problem with Shaw having played for Rangers and Hearts. ( as well as Hibs )
It was only when the " Famous Five " made their mark that he was taken to
With the break up of the side in 1955 Shaw failed to replace players with more of a top class standard ( exception being Joe Baker )
Shaw resigned in November 1961 and worked with Raith Rovers.
Never being a great communicator with the fans didn't help his popularity

:flag:

[patlowe]

Very interesting. To add some perspective, Arsene Wenger's win percentage is 58%. Ferguson's was 65%. Both over 1000 matches at clubs with success.

Mowbray's win rate there isnt at all bad. A decent number of games, all top flight in what was a more competitive league. Old Firm still spending a bit, the Gorgie mob financially cheating and a small transfer kitty to work with... Would've thought it to be slightly lower than Eck who had a Championship season... (or whatever it was called then in '98.)

Was thinking the same - to win almost half of the games in the circumstances you've outlined (plus the fact he inherited a very thin, youth-oriented squad) is very impressive indeed. His record stands out even more when you consider the lean years we've had to face in the years to follow! Shame about some of the absolutely honking derby results mind...

[Baader]

I was thinking Sauzee but I think he doesn't count, as he was only ever temporary.

Short lived, sadly. But was a permanent appointment, not temporary.

[Spike Mandela]

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon is our best manager by a mile in over a century. :cb

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon gave us our worst result in over a century, in fact EVER.:cb

[scoopyboy]

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon gave us our worst result in over a century, in fact EVER.:cb

It you are talking scorelines you are wrong, my first Scottish Cup final saw Hibs lose 6-1.:na na:

[emerald green]

Butcher - 21%. Jeez 1 game in every 5.

[tamig]

Think it was around '74, Turnbull was pretty ill, probably the early stages of the cancer he later fought off. Humphries was made temporary manager and Hibs went unbeaten a good dozen games or so. Cult figure with us school laddies in Niddrie Mill as he was "The Invincible Wilson Humphries".


Decent playing career with a good Motherwell side. Scored in Motherwell's Cup winning team of the 50's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_Humphries

Aye. I remember some of the old Hibs team pics I had on my bedroom wall from the Tornadoes era and ET's backroom team was Tom McNiven, Wilson Humphries and John Lambie.

[jgl07]

McLeish had a pretty decent win rate. It's no wonder we played in front of 15,000 ever week in the 1st Division.
:devil:
Aye every week that Hibs played Falkirk at Easter Road.

[IberianHibernian]

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon gave us our worst result in over a century, in fact EVER.:cbI saw us lose to Arbroath ( Turnbull ) , East Fife ( Stanton I think ) , Clydebank ( Miller ) and there are many more examples before my time and during ( Raith last year ) so prefer to remember Fenlon as a manger who`ll go down in history for a good Scottish Cup record .

[Sir David Gray]

Statistically, who's our worst ever Manager?


I was thinking Sauzee but I think he doesn't count, as he was only ever temporary.

Sadly it would have to go to Sauzee.

He was a permanent appointment at the time and although he only lasted a couple of months, his win rate of 6.7% is the worst ever.

[Purple & Green]

Worth looking at stubbs in blocks of games - I'd suggest 10 at a time. The improvement since that start of the season has been marked and tangible.

[PatHead]

Sadly it would have to go to Sauzee.

He was a permanent appointment at the time and although he only lasted a couple of months, his win rate of 6.7% is the worst ever.

Was his last game the semi against Ayr at Hampden? It was desperate.

[Sir David Gray]

As much as I rate Stubbs and I think he's doing a great job in rebuilding things on the park, we can't really compare how he's done against managers from the past, when we're playing sides like Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Sevco every other week.

If/when we're back in the Premiership under Stubbs and playing against proper, professional teams every week, then we can start to compare his record with the rest.

[Sir David Gray]

Was his last game the semi against Ayr at Hampden? It was desperate.

1-1 draw at home to Dunfermline was his final match.

[Mixu62]

What about the great Jocky Scott?

[macca70]

What was Bobby Williamson' record like?

Quite interesting to read what he's been up to over recent years:

Uganda
On 19 August 2008, Williamson was appointed by FUFA to be the coach of the Uganda national football team.[12] Williamson replaced Csaba László, who resigned in July 2008 to join Scottish Premier League side Hearts.[12] Within days of being appointed, Williamson was given the ultimatum of winning his first two games against Niger and Benin to earn a longer contract.[13] He succeeded in doing that, and their FIFA World Ranking steadily improved during his first two years in charge.[14] Williamson led his Uganda team to the 2011 CECAFA Cup.[15]

Uganda almost qualified for the 2013 Africa Cup of Nations, losing on a penalty shootout in their qualifying playoff tie against Zambia.[16] Uganda had a bad start to 2014 World Cup qualifying, taking just two points from three games.[17] It was announced on 8 April 2013 that Williamson had been sacked by Uganda.[17][18]

Kenya
On 5 July 2013, it was announced that Williamson agreed terms with Tusker Premier League side Gor Mahia to join the club as their new head coach.[19][20][21] He replaced Croatian counterpart Zdravko Logarusić, who was sacked by the club 9 days earlier, on 25 June.[22][23][24][25] Williamson led Gor Mahia to their first national league championship in 18 years.[26]

In August 2014, Williamson was appointed manager of the Kenya national team.[26][27][28] He took over the post after his last game with Gor Mahia in a league game against Sony Sugar on 24 August.[29]

[Nazz]

When the games in charge are vastly different, I always think the percentages are a little skewed.

Question for the stattos: How to factor in this difference to make the playing field more level?

[Slicer]

1-1 draw at home to Dunfermline was his final match.

My one memory from Sauzee's last game was, there was not one song sung in the whole match.

A strange atmosphere when he was in charge. The fans knew he was failing, wanted him to turn it around, but knew he couldn't.

[3pm]

Worth looking at stubbs in blocks of games - I'd suggest 10 at a time. The improvement since that start of the season has been marked and tangible.

Posted something similar on the private board B.

[Andy74]

When the games in charge are vastly different, I always think the percentages are a little skewed.

Question for the stattos: How to factor in this difference to make the playing field more level?

You also need to factor that taking a team on from Butcher or Calderwood is different from taking over from a Mowbray.

[Nazz]

Yep, agree.

[Pretty Boy]

My one memory from Sauzee's last game was, there was not one song sung in the whole match.

A strange atmosphere when he was in charge. The fans knew he was failing, wanted him to turn it around, but knew he couldn't.

The whole Sauzee debacle was a sorry, sorry episode at the club.

I was 14 at the time he was appointed manager and he was probably the last player I truly idolised as a hero. I've obviously liked players since but as you get older you realise football players are human with human faults. Franck should never have got the job but he did and because the fans loved him the decision was backed. It became clear pretty quickly it wasn't going to work, results were poor, performances were generally poor although there were exceptions and it was obvious a few players weren't playing for him. People tend ro forget that he took over a team already in pretty severe decline, McLeish left at the right time as we were in freefall and had been since the season before (a fact overlooked is our poor performance in the 2nd half of the 00/01 season, often forgotten because we were so far clear in 3rd due to our flying start and because we had a SC Final to look forward to).

The decision to appoint him is one I can't fathom, the decision to sack him was sadly the right one but what still angers me to this day is that he was made to attend the press conference announcing his own sacking. He was close to tears and it must have been a humiliating experience. I never understood why that happened and still don't.

[bigwheel]

The whole Sauzee debacle was a sorry, sorry episode at the club.

I was 14 at the time he was appointed manager and he was probably the last player I truly idolised as a hero. I've obviously liked players since but as you get older you realise football players are human with human faults. Franck should never have got the job but he did and because the fans loved him the decision was backed. It became clear pretty quickly it wasn't going to work, results were poor, performances were generally poor although there were exceptions and it was obvious a few players weren't playing for him. People tend ro forget that he took over a team already in pretty severe decline, McLeish left at the right time as we were in freefall and had been since the season before (a fact overlooked is our poor performance in the 2nd half of the 00/01 season, often forgotten because we were so far clear in 3rd due to our flying start and because we had a SC Final to look forward to).

The decision to appoint him is one I can't fathom, the decision to sack him was sadly the right one but what still angers me to this day is that he was made to attend the press conference announcing his own sacking. He was close to tears and it must have been a humiliating experience. I never understood why that happened and still don't.

Your last paragraph resonates strongly with me , we treated the main with indignity ...one of the true greats to have played for us - probably the last genuine idol ...

We will never know if he would have turned it around . Tam McManus was sure he would have in a recent interview . The fact he didn't go back into coaching or management will forever leave that an unanswered question ..

[Lewis77]

Who here is old enough to actually remember watching the team under him? I just want to know how good we were? Was anyone there on the RM night?

NB the Stubbs record is heartening but we have to remember the league he's gained those results in.

[HFC 0-7]

If you are trying to find the best manager record ever, I think you need to factor in draws as well, someone with a smaller win rate could still have gathered many more points if they lost less and had more draws.

[lord bunberry]

If you are trying to find the best manager record ever, I think you need to factor in draws as well, someone with a smaller win rate could still have gathered many more points if they lost less and had more draws.
That would bring Alex Miller into play.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If you consider Scottish Cup results only, Pat Fenlon gave us our worst result in over a century, in fact EVER.:cb

So a 5-1, beats a 6-2?:confused:

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

The whole Sauzee debacle was a sorry, sorry episode at the club.

I was 14 at the time he was appointed manager and he was probably the last player I truly idolised as a hero. I've obviously liked players since but as you get older you realise football players are human with human faults. Franck should never have got the job but he did and because the fans loved him the decision was backed. It became clear pretty quickly it wasn't going to work, results were poor, performances were generally poor although there were exceptions and it was obvious a few players weren't playing for him. People tend ro forget that he took over a team already in pretty severe decline, McLeish left at the right time as we were in freefall and had been since the season before (a fact overlooked is our poor performance in the 2nd half of the 00/01 season, often forgotten because we were so far clear in 3rd due to our flying start and because we had a SC Final to look forward to).

The decision to appoint him is one I can't fathom, the decision to sack him was sadly the right one but what still angers me to this day is that he was made to attend the press conference announcing his own sacking. He was close to tears and it must have been a humiliating experience. I never understood why that happened and still don't.

I echo all that. I was 17 at the time and he's also my last hero in the same way that you explain. The day he was sacked was more upsetting than either of the relegations I've witnessed. I still believe if he had been given more time he would have turned it around, will never know though. We had St Johnstone in our next home game(Williamson's first game) and they were so so bad. Think we would have managed a win in that game regardless.
People forget how awful we were before McLeish jumped ship. Such a shame that Franck will never return as a result of how things ended.

[Liberal Hibby]

That would bring Alex Miller into play.

And Bertie Auld probably...

[Keith_M]

And Bertie Auld probably...


Do you mind, I've spent the last three decades trying to erase him from my memory!



:paranoid:

[ekhibee]

Do you mind, I've spent the last three decades trying to erase him from my memory!



:paranoid:
Same here, the stuff we played under him really made your eyes bleed.

[Liberal Hibby]

Same here, the stuff we played under him really made your eyes bleed.

Think I saw every home game (and a few away) that season. If I remember that season it was something along the lines of P36 W9 D18 L9 F35 A37 - a bore draw being the modal result. And we thought things couldn't ever be worse...

[bingo70]

Was thinking the same - to win almost half of the games in the circumstances you've outlined (plus the fact he inherited a very thin, youth-oriented squad) is very impressive indeed. His record stands out even more when you consider the lean years we've had to face in the years to follow! Shame about some of the absolutely honking derby results mind...

Did we not go about a year without an away win under Mowbray? I'm maybe exaggerating but I'm sure our away record was dreadfull under him.

[CropleyWasGod]

Think I saw every home game (and a few away) that season. If I remember that season it was something along the lines of P36 W9 D18 L9 F35 A37 - a bore draw being the modal result. And we thought things couldn't ever be worse...
Someone memorably described us as like the back of a Rich Tea biscuit.

1-1 1-1 1-1 1-1

[Tyler Durden]

Did we not go about a year without an away win under Mowbray? I'm maybe exaggerating but I'm sure our away record was dreadfull under him.

Not the case. We won at virtually every ground with the exception of Inverness. Great wins at Ibrox, Parkhead, Pittodrie, Tynie. Far from dreadful!

I can't help but defend Mowbray.....it's like Peevemor and Petrie.

[worcesterhibby]

If you are trying to find the best manager record ever, I think you need to factor in draws as well, someone with a smaller win rate could still have gathered many more points if they lost less and had more draws.

the change between 2 points for a win and 3 points for a win would confuse matters...might be better to work out Hibs managers by lose % then draws would be taken into consideration.