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View Full Version : Relegation - The best thing to happen to us since the League Cup Victory



Paloschi
17-03-2015, 12:35 PM
I know many of us suffering Hibs fans have already moved on or are moving on from last season. I have just watched the Hamilton highlights back for the first time and it was awful viewing but got me thinking that I am actually, without a word of a lie, glad it happened.

Had we stayed up who knows where we would be. There are many scenarios but the one I feel that is most probable would have been with Terry Butcher in charge having kept us up. Even with the changes at board and community level I feel we would still be miles behind in terms of coaching, development and player recruitment.
I think Butcher and Malpas would have completed an overhaul of the squad, we may of even had half of Inverness’ squad in there by now but his tactical inabilities and the awful training and coaching methods would have seen us struggling in my opinion.

Another mid-season casualty would have been made of Butcher.

Instead here we are, playing great football with an intelligent and tactically aware manager. We have a first rate coaching staff, Doolan and Holden are massive coups for a Scottish Club. We have excellent players brought in, the likes of Gray, Fontaine, Allan, McGeoch, Fyvie, Malonga… I could go on and on. Cummings, Robertson and Stevenson have turned into key players. We have a plan for the football club and we have finally entered into the modern era of football. We are now in an excellent position.

Some would argue being 2nd in the Championship is not good enough. Some would argue being this far behind Hearts is a disaster. We were rebuilding the whole club and all the changes we were implementing meant Hearts could take advantage. Is there much between the two clubs now? Look at it this way. Hearts will win the league and win promotion. We can win promotion, the Scottish Cup and get into Europe in the process.


I know that is a big ask, a lot of if’s and maybe’s but our season is yet to be defined. I for once am approaching with optimism and confidence in the team, staff and club. Something I have never experienced since Alex McLeish was manager. Even if we don’t get promoted this season its been a massive push in the right direction. We will dominate the league next season. Rangers or no Rangers.


We have the building blocks in place now and when all is said in done I am confident that down the line we will surpass Hearts, Aberdeen and challenge the old firm. We are already streets ahead of them and they don’t even know it. The future is Green and White! GGTTH.

Peevemor
17-03-2015, 12:39 PM
I've been asking myself the same question, although I doubt Leeann Dempster would have put up with the Butcher/Malpas style of management for long regardless.

Kato
17-03-2015, 12:40 PM
As a club we had lost the skill of winning games. Dropping down has/will allow us get back into that habit. Painful, but not as painful as putting up with the series of clowns who were picked to manage us.

Billy Whizz
17-03-2015, 12:49 PM
I've been asking myself the same question, although I doubt Leeann Dempster would have put up with the Butcher/Malpas style of management for long regardless.

I agree, think they would still have got their jotters, if we'd stayed up

Sir David Gray
17-03-2015, 12:51 PM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

KeithTheHibby
17-03-2015, 12:59 PM
I've been asking myself the same question, although I doubt Leeann Dempster would have put up with the Butcher/Malpas style of management for long regardless.


This. I think the whole structure of the club was going to change regardless under LD and George Craig. I suspect Butcher and Malpas were aware of this and not particularly receptive to the idea. Whether this affected the way they went about their jobs is up for debate however I do think there was something in this theory.

Turkish Green
17-03-2015, 01:03 PM
Masochist that I am, I watched the Hibs v Hamilton PO final 2nd leg again last night. I just cannot believe how bad that team was and how clueless Butcher was. Ryan McGivern - oh deary me!

Leeann Dempster managed a small miracle in the short time she has been in the job.

Smartie
17-03-2015, 01:04 PM
Good OP imo and many good points.

Hibs should never accept being in anything other than the top division. But even if we had stayed up, got rid of Butcher and replaced him with Stubbs we may have grown impatient whilst the team consistently lost as he rebuilt the side (it is debatable that that would have happened but it might).

Dropping down a level has allowed us to get the winning habit back and hopefully we will manage to go up and keep it going.

We can't afford to be down here beyond the end of this season though.

With hindsight our last relegation didn't do us any harm. Hopefully this one will work out the same way.

Sammy7nil
17-03-2015, 01:04 PM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

:agree:

lord bunberry
17-03-2015, 01:06 PM
It probably has been a good thing, it just really annoys me that for the 2nd time it's taken a relegation for us to get our house in order.

J-C
17-03-2015, 01:27 PM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

The embarrassing thing about last year is the hierarchy must've known what was happening at the training centre re Butcher/Malpas and did nothing about it, everyone here knew what was going on FFS.

Bobby's Cinema
17-03-2015, 01:31 PM
Relegation is a nightmare and playing in this league is hurting us badly. But I think when you paint the two scenarios like that, and imagine us sacking Butcher mid-season as you put it, not going through the sort of wholesale changes we have seen, then It's hard to argue that you would rather be there. What's come out of it has been good for us. But we absolutely must go up :agree:

Dashing Bob S
17-03-2015, 01:32 PM
The embarrassing thing about last year is the hierarchy must've known what was happening at the training centre re Butcher/Malpas and did nothing about it, everyone here knew what was going on FFS.

I think if Dempster had had another six months in the job, they would have been replaced.

Lago
17-03-2015, 01:33 PM
May well prove to be positive, but only if promotion happens this season.

Peevemor
17-03-2015, 01:36 PM
The embarrassing thing about last year is the hierarchy must've known what was happening at the training centre re Butcher/Malpas and did nothing about it, everyone here knew what was going on FFS.

He was 'only' in charge for 7 months, during which time there was the early 10 game unbeaten run. In addition, we don't know what, if anything, the board did in connection with some of the stuff that was rumoured on here.

J-C
17-03-2015, 01:38 PM
He was 'only' in charge for 7 months, during which time there was the early 10 game unbeaten run. In addition, we don't know what, if anything, the board did in connection with some of the stuff that was rumoured on here.

He and his foul mouthed pal systematically dimantled this club piece by piece and Rod and his board did SFA as they watched it going downhill, we all know what happened at training.

lyonhibs
17-03-2015, 02:07 PM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

Yes indeed. :agree:

Hibs are playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, having been relegated with about 1 win in the last 20 games of last season including a completely botched and ludicrous "Relegation Party" for Hearts at ER which we lost and whereafter we proceeded to, errrrr, get relegated.

There is nothing positive to getting relegated.

--------
17-03-2015, 02:14 PM
It would have been much much better had the then Chairman and Board (and owners, too) moved to sort things out long before we reached the point of relegation. It shouldn't have gone anything like as far as it did.

The idea that relegation is somehow a 'blessing' doesn't match with the way most football clubs and their supporters fear the loss of top-division status. Some, of course, just walk blindly on towards the drop, which is what Hibs had been doing since the departure of John Collins. Last season, Butcher and Malpas put the noose round our neck and the players pulled the lever with their lack of commitment and ability. But I don't view last season's disaster as a blessing. It should have been prevented without the level of grief and anger and outrage it required to finally get our grey eminence to move to put things in order.

There are some of us not yet entirely reconciled to what happened at the club over the last few years. Leeann Dempster has done wonders in a very short time, and Alan Stubbs has made a huge improvement in the team and the way they play.

But the chief culprit in the abuse of Hibernian Football Club is still at the club, and that rankles - with me, anyway.

And whatever the outcome of this season - promotion through the play-offs or another season in the Championship - serious work will have to be done to equip the team to face the challenge of back life in the Premiership. That's when we'll find out how genuine the apparent transformation at ER really is.

cleanyman
17-03-2015, 02:24 PM
I think playing in a league with Rangers, Hearts and Falkirk has softened the blow.

Relegation was obviously a disaster but if we had been relegated in previous years we would have been playing Dunfermline and Dundee for the title which is a whole different ball game, relegation would have been a more bitter pill to swallow in this case.

jingler1954
17-03-2015, 02:24 PM
I know many of us suffering Hibs fans have already moved on or are moving on from last season. I have just watched the Hamilton highlights back for the first time and it was awful viewing but got me thinking that I am actually, without a word of a lie, glad it happened.

Had we stayed up who knows where we would be. There are many scenarios but the one I feel that is most probable would have been with Terry Butcher in charge having kept us up. Even with the changes at board and community level I feel we would still be miles behind in terms of coaching, development and player recruitment.
I think Butcher and Malpas would have completed an overhaul of the squad, we may of even had half of Inverness’ squad in there by now but his tactical inabilities and the awful training and coaching methods would have seen us struggling in my opinion.

Another mid-season casualty would have been made of Butcher.

Instead here we are, playing great football with an intelligent and tactically aware manager. We have a first rate coaching staff, Doolan and Holden are massive coups for a Scottish Club. We have excellent players brought in, the likes of Gray, Fontaine, Allan, McGeoch, Fyvie, Malonga… I could go on and on. Cummings, Robertson and Stevenson have turned into key players. We have a plan for the football club and we have finally entered into the modern era of football. We are now in an excellent position.

Some would argue being 2nd in the Championship is not good enough. Some would argue being this far behind Hearts is a disaster. We were rebuilding the whole club and all the changes we were implementing meant Hearts could take advantage. Is there much between the two clubs now? Look at it this way. Hearts will win the league and win promotion. We can win promotion, the Scottish Cup and get into Europe in the process.


I know that is a big ask, a lot of if’s and maybe’s but our season is yet to be defined. I for once am approaching with optimism and confidence in the team, staff and club. Something I have never experienced since Alex McLeish was manager. Even if we don’t get promoted this season its been a massive push in the right direction. We will dominate the league next season. Rangers or no Rangers.


We have the building blocks in place now and when all is said in done I am confident that down the line we will surpass Hearts, Aberdeen and challenge the old firm. We are already streets ahead of them and they don’t even know it. The future is Green and White! GGTTH.
Absolutely couldent agree more Imagine if we had stayed up and were playing hoofball under Butcher GGTTH

NAE NOOKIE
17-03-2015, 02:53 PM
Relegation was a disaster .. it should never have happened and the fact that we knew we would be joining the Yams and Zombies in the Championship should have concentrated minds ... the fact that it didn't should have lead to the resignation of all of those responsible. Petrie especially.

We seem to be a club who only seem capable of reacting to disaster, not preventing it. The only up side now is that our manager and CEO actually seem to know what they are doing .... LD especially gives the impression that she would act before it was too late if the same situation arose again.

Whether relegation was a positive or negative thing is open to debate. What is sure is that we now find ourselves in a situation where this season could end up one of our best ever or a damp squib ........ its going to be exciting finding that's for sure.

GGTTH

hibee-boys
17-03-2015, 02:58 PM
If we can get straight back up this year then it may well have been the wake up call we needed. I do however worry about the financial impact another season in the championship would have on us thus the ability to hold onto the current players. A Scottish cup final would certainly help cushion the financial blow but let's hope we can get through the playoffs and reap the rewards of the cup run.

Steve20
17-03-2015, 03:01 PM
There's nothing good about being relegated. We're also trailing Hearts by 17 points and there's no guarantee we'll win the playoffs so could see ourselves down in this league for at least another year.

Stonewall
17-03-2015, 03:09 PM
Yes indeed. :agree:

Hibs are playing in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, having been relegated with about 1 win in the last 20 games of last season including a completely botched and ludicrous "Relegation Party" for Hearts at ER which we lost and whereafter we proceeded to, errrrr, get relegated.

There is nothing positive to getting relegated.

I agree but I think relegation made it easier for LD to clear the decks, establish a new structure, get the right people in place and move forward. I fear that if we had stayed up then we would not have made all the difficult decisions and would have ended up with a half arsed re-organisation and another management change during the season or even worse eye bleedingly bad mid-table football.

Who of any calibre would have wanted to work at any level at Hibs when Laurel and Hardy were dictating the direction of travel. At least we now have a club where everyone has bought into the footballing philosophy and the people charged with implementing it appear to be capable of doing so.

Geo_1875
17-03-2015, 03:29 PM
Should never have happened. If we don't go straight back up we will suffer for years from a huge drop in crowds and income next season.

jacomo
17-03-2015, 03:34 PM
I am really not sure LD would have had the same mandate for change had we stayed up. So in that sense it helped this club to realise how wrong things were and change them.

Still makes me cross though.

Peevemor
17-03-2015, 03:43 PM
I am really not sure LD would have had the same mandate for change had we stayed up. So in that sense it helped this club to realise how wrong things were and change them.

Still makes me cross though.

I think she would have, given the statements regarding change made by the board before her appointment. I think the changes would have been more difficult to make though.

Onion
17-03-2015, 04:45 PM
Far too early to conclude anything. Yes, we're playing better football, but we've achieved heehaw. Getting out of this lower league is still going to be a major challenge. If we fail and remain in this league and/or Stubbs and a few of the better players decide to jump ship, this will not feel like a blessing in disguise.

With LD coming in, Butcher might well have been sacked even if we'd survived last season. We might have got Stubbs in and could have been challenging the Dons, DUFC etc. Who knows ?

But if we win the Scottish Cup this year, it will all have been worth it :thumbsup:

emerald green
17-03-2015, 05:16 PM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

:agree:


It would have been much much better had the then Chairman and Board (and owners, too) moved to sort things out long before we reached the point of relegation. It shouldn't have gone anything like as far as it did.

The idea that relegation is somehow a 'blessing' doesn't match with the way most football clubs and their supporters fear the loss of top-division status. Some, of course, just walk blindly on towards the drop, which is what Hibs had been doing since the departure of John Collins. Last season, Butcher and Malpas put the noose round our neck and the players pulled the lever with their lack of commitment and ability. But I don't view last season's disaster as a blessing. It should have been prevented without the level of grief and anger and outrage it required to finally get our grey eminence to move to put things in order.

There are some of us not yet entirely reconciled to what happened at the club over the last few years. Leeann Dempster has done wonders in a very short time, and Alan Stubbs has made a huge improvement in the team and the way they play.

But the chief culprit in the abuse of Hibernian Football Club is still at the club, and that rankles - with me, anyway.

And whatever the outcome of this season - promotion through the play-offs or another season in the Championship - serious work will have to be done to equip the team to face the challenge of back life in the Premiership. That's when we'll find out how genuine the apparent transformation at ER really is.

:top marks This sums it up extremely well IMO.

DH1875
17-03-2015, 05:35 PM
I think playing in a league with Rangers, Hearts and Falkirk has softened the blow.

Relegation was obviously a disaster but if we had been relegated in previous years we would have been playing Dunfermline and Dundee for the title which is a whole different ball game, relegation would have been a more bitter pill to swallow in this case.

:confused: Dont agree with that at all.

As for relegation being a good thing. Will it still be a good thing if we lose in the cup and get beat in the playoffs? Another year in this divison could be a disaster.

Pete
17-03-2015, 05:37 PM
:confused: Dont agree with that at all.

As for relegation being a good thing. Will it still be a good thing if we lose in the cup and get beat in the playoffs? Another year in this divison could be a disaster.

In what way will it be a "disaster"?

What on earth do people think will happen?

matty_f
17-03-2015, 06:05 PM
I am really not sure LD would have had the same mandate for change had we stayed up. So in that sense it helped this club to realise how wrong things were and change them.

Still makes me cross though.

She absolutely would have. The club were planning the changes before relegation was even being considered a potential outcome. I think Butcher would have got the Spanish Archer regardless.

cleanyman
17-03-2015, 06:18 PM
:confused: Dont agree with that at all.

As for relegation being a good thing. Will it still be a good thing if we lose in the cup and get beat in the playoffs? Another year in this divison could be a disaster.

Where did I say relegation was a good thing?

emerald green
17-03-2015, 06:22 PM
In what way will it be a "disaster"?

What on earth do people think will happen?

It all depends on what you mean by the word "disaster". A real disaster is, lets say, what has happened to those people in Vanuatu after their lives were destroyed by cyclone Pam.

However, in footballing terms, what I think posters are saying when they use the word disaster is that another year in the Championship will not be good at all for HFC (no doubt they will correct me if this is not the case...).

For example, Hearts will be promoted, and if Hibs aren't promoted with them at the end of this season my money would be on The Rangers to go up with them (as bad as people say they are). Our "big games" next season would then be against the likes of Falkirk, or perhaps St Mirren or Ross County. I believe that would impact not only on season ticket sales, and walk ups, but possibly TV money and sponsorship too. Crowds would suffer, and income would drop.

That, in turn, makes it difficult to retain and attract the quality of player(s) needed to get out of this league (not to mention AS and his team) The status of the club suffers playing in this lower league. It becomes a vicious downward spiral.

Spike Mandela
17-03-2015, 06:42 PM
Last time we were relegated we rebuilt our team, played good football, romped the league and came up with a team that comfortably sustained itself in the Premier division.

Cicumstances are similar this time but with one vital ingredient missing. There is absolutely no guarantee that we will go up this year which means it is uncharted territory for us. What will happen if we fail to get promoted.? More cutbacks probably, players leaving probably, crowds down probably, no derbies, no parachute paymentetc etc.

The timing of this relegation has been an absolute nightmare for the club in having to fight out with Hearts and Rangers, not to mention Falkirk and QotS. It will only be a reinvigorating experience for the club if we go up first time.

tanfield
17-03-2015, 06:47 PM
Absolutely nothing positive can be taken from being relegated especially the manner in which we "achieved" it!!!

Keith_M
17-03-2015, 06:57 PM
The fact is, we are in the 2nd tier of Scottish Football and may well still be next season.

Let's just see if we actually get promoted before celebrating how well things are going.

jacomo
17-03-2015, 07:15 PM
She absolutely would have. The club were planning the changes before relegation was even being considered a potential outcome. I think Butcher would have got the Spanish Archer regardless.

But Butcher et al only appointed Nov 2014 on long term lucrative contracts. I'm sure LD would have been persuaded to keep faith in them if we had stayed up. Instead she was given a decision to make when she arrived - in the midst of a mass Petrie Out! campaign.

EastCalderHibby
17-03-2015, 07:47 PM
I agree, think they would still have got their jotters, if we'd stayed up

that would have been the perfect outcome

EastCalderHibby
17-03-2015, 07:51 PM
I think if Dempster had had another six months in the job, they would have been replaced.

was she at murderwell when butcher was :confused:

NYHibby
17-03-2015, 07:56 PM
was she at murderwell when butcher was :confused:

According to her LinkedIn, no.

70KevinHFC62
17-03-2015, 08:20 PM
May well prove to be positive, but only if promotion happens this season.
This is it in a nutshell, we must go up, and I believe if we do we will build and build

DH1875
17-03-2015, 08:33 PM
In what way will it be a "disaster"?

What on earth do people think will happen?


I didnt say it will be a disaster. I said it could be a disaster :wink:.

DH1875
17-03-2015, 08:34 PM
Where did I say relegation was a good thing?


You didnt, thats why there was a line space. I was referring to the OP.

ozhibs
18-03-2015, 12:25 AM
Relegation was a disaster for our club. Yes I'm happy with our form just now but we are in the second tier of Scottish football with the possibility of that extending into a second season.

I can't accept that there's a positive behind what happened last year. It was, and is, an embarrassment.

My thought exactly, I still can't believe we lost to Hamilton at ER after winning away from home. :-(

Hermit Crab
18-03-2015, 01:48 AM
I think playing in a league with Rangers, Hearts and Falkirk has softened the blow.

Relegation was obviously a disaster but if we had been relegated in previous years we would have been playing Dunfermline and Dundee for the title which is a whole different ball game, relegation would have been a more bitter pill to swallow in this case.


Rubbish. It just makes this league harder to get out of. Hearts are fine because they had a season of playing the young lads together so they were ready for this.

We didn't expect to go down a year ago so the board were planning for spl football under butcher this season, we know the rest. Relegation was terrible and another season in this league would be a disaster because ultimately all the good work done by stubbs and co would be unravelled and we would lose players like McGeoch, Allan and Fyvie for definite in the summer. If we go up there's. Chance we could retain all 3.

Pete
18-03-2015, 07:15 AM
It all depends on what you mean by the word "disaster". A real disaster is, lets say, what has happened to those people in Vanuatu after their lives were destroyed by cyclone Pam.

However, in footballing terms, what I think posters are saying when they use the word disaster is that another year in the Championship will not be good at all for HFC (no doubt they will correct me if this is not the case...).

For example, Hearts will be promoted, and if Hibs aren't promoted with them at the end of this season my money would be on The Rangers to go up with them (as bad as people say they are). Our "big games" next season would then be against the likes of Falkirk, or perhaps St Mirren or Ross County. I believe that would impact not only on season ticket sales, and walk ups, but possibly TV money and sponsorship too. Crowds would suffer, and income would drop.

That, in turn, makes it difficult to retain and attract the quality of player(s) needed to get out of this league (not to mention AS and his team) The status of the club suffers playing in this lower league. It becomes a vicious downward spiral.


It all depends on what you mean by the word "disaster". A real disaster is, lets say, what has happened to those people in Vanuatu after their lives were destroyed by cyclone Pam.

However, in footballing terms, what I think posters are saying when they use the word disaster is that another year in the Championship will not be good at all for HFC (no doubt they will correct me if this is not the case...).

For example, Hearts will be promoted, and if Hibs aren't promoted with them at the end of this season my money would be on The Rangers to go up with them (as bad as people say they are). Our "big games" next season would then be against the likes of Falkirk, or perhaps St Mirren or Ross County. I believe that would impact not only on season ticket sales, and walk ups, but possibly TV money and sponsorship too. Crowds would suffer, and income would drop.

That, in turn, makes it difficult to retain and attract the quality of player(s) needed to get out of this league (not to mention AS and his team) The status of the club suffers playing in this lower league. It becomes a vicious downward spiral.

I think the worst case scenario will be first division football for another two seasons. Revenue and crowds might be down but we'll still be the big fish once Sevco are away and should get promoted.

We're well enough run to ensure there will be no disasters, footballing or financial, should this worst case scenario happen. Our new infrastructure, facilities and our fan base will be enough to ensure that we regain the status that we once had. Well, once had five years ago.

I'm sorry but I don't share this apocalyptic view that some others do. We'll cut back, streamline and survive partly because of the sacrifices we've made in previous years.

It would be a "disaster" for others but not for ourselves. As for the fans. ..They'll be back the minute we're looking good again. It's always the way.:greengrin

Pete
18-03-2015, 07:18 AM
Rubbish. It just makes this league harder to get out of. Hearts are fine because they had a season of playing the young lads together so they were ready for this.

We didn't expect to go down a year ago so the board were planning for spl football under butcher this season, we know the rest. Relegation was terrible and another season in this league would be a disaster because ultimately all the good work done by stubbs and co would be unravelled and we would lose players like McGeoch, Allan and Fyvie for definite in the summer. If we go up there's. Chance we could retain all 3.

I'm not sure you understand the work that's going on if you think it will be unravelled by the loss of three players.

One question. Anne Budge said that not getting promoted wouldn't be a disaster for hearts. What's different about us?

J-C
18-03-2015, 08:28 AM
I'm not sure you understand the work that's going on if you think it will be unravelled by the loss of three players.

One question. Anne Budge said that not getting promoted wouldn't be a disaster for hearts. What's different about us?

I agree.

Yes promotion is our main aim and when you see the teams in the league we knew it wasn't going to be that easy, so we were probably budgeting for 2 years down here with the hope of doing it in one. Thankfully Rangers are poor and it's given us more hope but with the debacle of the end of last season and the time it took to put things in place, we were 5 weeks behind everyone in regards our prep. We may well lose Allan/McGeouch/Fyvie if we don't go up but I have faith that Stubbs and LD are capable of finding similar players for next season where our support will be bigger and more expectant.

alfie
18-03-2015, 09:16 AM
I dont think it will be a disaster *IF* we get promotion. Looking at our current form and performances things are looking good from that point of view as long as we can beat either Falkirk or QOS in the playoff.

However, I cant help thinking that getting relegated was all part of a cunning Petrie plan to ensure that The Rangers didnt get promoted this season. :greengrin

hibbysam
18-03-2015, 11:06 AM
I think the worst case scenario will be first division football for another two seasons. Revenue and crowds might be down but we'll still be the big fish once Sevco are away and should get promoted.

We're well enough run to ensure there will be no disasters, footballing or financial, should this worst case scenario happen. Our new infrastructure, facilities and our fan base will be enough to ensure that we regain the status that we once had. Well, once had five years ago.

I'm sorry but I don't share this apocalyptic view that some others do. We'll cut back, streamline and survive partly because of the sacrifices we've made in previous years.

It would be a "disaster" for others but not for ourselves. As for the fans. ..They'll be back the minute we're looking good again. It's always the way.:greengrin

Try telling this to Stubbs and George Craig etc who told us in no uncertain terms that should we still be in this division in two seasons time, the infrastructure put in place for premiership football will fail, and none of those two would be at the club. Should we go up this year we have the infrastructure and facilities to challenge at the very top of Scottish football, if we don't we could be down for a very long time!

number9dream
18-03-2015, 11:42 AM
If we can get straight back up this year then it may well have been the wake up call we needed. I do however worry about the financial impact another season in the championship would have on us thus the ability to hold onto the current players. A Scottish cup final would certainly help cushion the financial blow but let's hope we can get through the playoffs and reap the rewards of the cup run.

It's all in the balance - go up and it's probably been worth it, fail to do so then Stubbs may well have to go a few backward steps with a dwindling budget.
Players like McGeough, Fyvie and Fontaine might not fancy another season in the second tier of Scottish football and are likely to get better offers elsewhere - and it might be tricky to ignore any bids for Allan.
The stakes are sky-high for these play-offs...

Peevemor
18-03-2015, 11:58 AM
In any case, IF we get to the cup final that will significantly help the finances whatever division we find ourselves in - that together with play-off receipts and the share money.

CallumLaidlaw
18-03-2015, 12:09 PM
I think its human nature (in most cases :wink: ) to try and take the positives from a bad situation. We got relegated. it was awful & embarrassing. But When the new season started, our focus had to move away from the relegation, to a fresh start. Yes we took a while to find our feet, but I have thoroughly enjoyed watching us at times this season. Something I've not been able to say for a number of seasons.
We have lots of positives going on around the club, and if promotion & a cup win did happen, it really would be a terrific springboard for the club. If we miss out on promotion, then yes it will be sore, but I truly believe that LD will have a worst case scenario prepared for.
No matter what happens at the end of the season, I am more optimistic about our club than I have been for a number of years, which is something I never would have thought was possible 10 months on from our penalty shootout defeat.

SlickShoes
18-03-2015, 12:27 PM
I am shocked that we are in second place and in the cup semi final to be honest.

The football I watched last season was shocking, and at the start of this season it was apparent how much work rebuilding us was going to take. In mid september we were second bottom of the league with 6 points.

We could easily still be spending another year or more in the chapmionship, let's not ignore that possibility but at least we are all hopeful and positive now, it's been a long time since I could say that about supporting hibs.

Pete
18-03-2015, 05:38 PM
Try telling this to Stubbs and George Craig etc who told us in no uncertain terms that should we still be in this division in two seasons time, the infrastructure put in place for premiership football will fail, and none of those two would be at the club. Should we go up this year we have the infrastructure and facilities to challenge at the very top of Scottish football, if we don't we could be down for a very long time!

So we've now went from "relegation being a disaster" to not getting promotion within a few years being a "disaster". At least the over reactions are slowly being countered.

What do you mean when you said that they said that our infrastructure and facilities would disappear? Would we have to sell our training ground?

It will be irrelevant if Stubbs or Craig leave as this Southampton model makes allowances for departures and isn't about individuals. Even if we did abandon this new way of doing things and went back to a top down system with an autonomous manager then I would still be confident we would get promoted. We would still be the big hitters in the league financially and would be clear favourites.

It's simple. We adapt to the situation we are in because we have wriggling room to do so. All this stuff about being down for a long time is nonsense and looking at things extremely negatively.

We'll be fine no matter what happens.

--------
19-03-2015, 01:09 PM
So we've now went from "relegation being a disaster" to not getting promotion within a few years being a "disaster". At least the over reactions are slowly being countered.

What do you mean when you said that they said that our infrastructure and facilities would disappear? Would we have to sell our training ground?

It will be irrelevant if Stubbs or Craig leave as this Southampton model makes allowances for departures and isn't about individuals. Even if we did abandon this new way of doing things and went back to a top down system with an autonomous manager then I would still be confident we would get promoted. We would still be the big hitters in the league financially and would be clear favourites.

It's simple. We adapt to the situation we are in because we have wriggling room to do so. All this stuff about being down for a long time is nonsense and looking at things extremely negatively.

We'll be fine no matter what happens.


:agree: If you know the history ...

Hibs were relegated in 1980 and promoted in 1981.

Hearts had been relegated out of the Premier in 1977, promoted back in 1978, relegated again in 1979, promoted back again in 1980, and relegated yet again 1981. We went up as they went down.

Hearts were expected to just pop back up again in 1982 as they (and we) had been doing for the past 5 years.

Down, then straight back up was the pattern for the Edinburgh clubs.

Hearts failed to gain promotion in season ending May 1982 - Motherwell won the division with Killie in second place by one point from Hearts in third. (Two up, two down in those days.)

Disaster? No. The second season in the lower league allowed them to reorganise properly and when they gained promotion in 1983 they had sorted out their problems properly and in fact Hibs were the club heading for trouble. History relates that by the end of the 1980's Hearts were in a position to attempt a takeover of Hibs with a view to putting us down finally and forever.

(BTW - they were promoted second in the division behind St Johnstone - who went straight back down the following year.)

The point is that a second season in the Championship wouldn't necessarily be the disaster some folks fear it will be.

Surely the board has taken notice that with Sevco and the Jambos in the division, promotion was never going to be a shoo-in - and planned accordingly? If they haven't, then Leeann Dempster isn't the lady I take her to be.

Is it likely that Alan Stubbs doesn't already have contingency plans in mind for the possibility that we might have to do it all again next year?

Sure, we want to go up this year, but another year in the Championship wouldn't be a disaster.

Getting taken over by our nearest rivals - that would have been a disaster.

Staying down a third season? Hmm. That wouldn't be a good thing at all.

Finding out that the stadium and training ground are both situated on chemically-polluted ground and have to be vacated immediately, and that the insurance doesn't cover it? THAT would be freakin' Armageddon.

If we win our next two matches, we SHOULD be a reasonably safe bet for second, which would be a wee advantage maybe in the play-offs, especially if we manage to reach the Cup Final. If we were somehow to beat the odds and win the Cup, that would be freakin' marvellous. If we then win out in the play-offs and go up, that would be perfection.

But if none of these things happen, Dempster and Stubbs will (I hope) just pick themselves up, dust themselves down, and start all over again. With (I also hope) the full support and backing of the owners, the directors, and the fans.

Think Robert the Bruce, buddies.

Bronson
19-03-2015, 07:50 PM
I agree with the OP, relegation has been a blessing in disguise.

Have to say as well, this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons as a hibs fan for a long time. If we won the play offs and got to the cup final (dare I say even win the bloody thing), this would be a tremendous season. All while watching some cracking players and lovely football.

Leithenhibby
19-03-2015, 08:14 PM
It was a sore one, and still hurts when looking back.

The positives I take are the fact the LD brought in, Alan Stubbs, George Craig and addressed the situation. The rest is history. It's time to stop licking our wounds and move forward. I am optimistic, and excited for what may happen in the closing stages of this season.

We have much to cheer, starting Sunday :wink:

GGTTH

Kato
19-03-2015, 09:31 PM
Hearts failed to gain promotion in season ending May 1982 - Motherwell won the division with Killie in second place by one point from Hearts in third.


I just about peed masel.

Did they not draw against some dross like Airdrie on the last day when a win would have brought them up?

Northernhibee
19-03-2015, 09:52 PM
I doubt we'd have been on such an incredible run in the top flight - maybe we need this to rebuild confidence through the club. We're winning more games at ER which is what we needed to start doing - relegations not been good but should prepare us well for next season back in the SPL.

My_Wife_Camille
19-03-2015, 11:44 PM
I get the reasoning behind this but I cant agree. Relegation is the worst thing to happen to the club since 2007 by far

21.05.2016
20-03-2015, 12:08 PM
Relegation was none other than an embarrassment for this great club, that day v Hamilton at ER will long be remembered as a dark dark day in our history but sadly it had been years in the making. Years of poor managers selling good players and replacing them with utter journeymen had finally caught up with us and the club sank to an unthinkable new low. Griffith almost single handedly saved us from relegation the year before but unfortunately we had no such spark to save us last year. It really was a very sorry state of affairs and on leaving ER that day I failed to see how the club could recover from this, I don't think I've ever felt more demoralised/upset/angry in all my life as a hibs supporter.

However, it highlighted the huge huge changes required at the club. Changes that should have happened years ago. As much as I wanted us to survive and stay in the top flight, it would have perhaps once again papered over the ever growing cracks in our club. I doubt Butcher would have been sacked if we had survived so we would still be (If he had lasted this long anyway) subjected to his mind-numbingly boring hoof fest football and I highly highly doubt he would have brought in anywhere near the quality that Stubbs has. The club feels more together again and has branched much further out into the community thank to a lot of the ideas brought in by Leanne. Leanne Dempster was a breath of fresh air and she IMO has the right vision for the club. A strong-minded woman that is determined to make this a success.

Stubbs is the sort of manager we have been crying out for for years and he has brought back a fighting spirit and morale and built up a team of hard working people dedicated to the cause. How many gutless teams we have we had over the years that looked like they simply couldn't give a **** about the club. Look at Livingstone game last week for example, we lost an equaliser late on in the game but had the spirit and drive to push on and take a winner - we would never have done that under Butcher! The heads would have gone down and we possibly would have even gone on to conceed another one!

I love how our club is being run at the moment and i'm immensely proud of Stubbs and the team. From the dark days of relegation we are slowly but surely building ourselves back up to be a proud club again. Relegation will never be seen as a good thing in my books but the main thing for me now is that the recovery is happening and it's encouraging the way the club is building.


GGTTH :gwa:

21.05.2016
20-03-2015, 12:55 PM
I doubt we'd have been on such an incredible run in the top flight - maybe we need this to rebuild confidence through the club. We're winning more games at ER which is what we needed to start doing - relegations not been good but should prepare us well for next season back in the SPL.

Winning is a habit and last season we seemed to completely lose the habit and the knowledge of how to win. Hopefully, like you say we have got back into the habit of winning which can give us the confidence needed.

Northernhibee
20-03-2015, 08:34 PM
Winning is a habit and last season we seemed to completely lose the habit and the knowledge of how to win. Hopefully, like you say we have got back into the habit of winning which can give us the confidence needed.

I've long believed that things are what you make of them - if we'd continued on from last season and left ourselves weak and not looking as if we're in much chance of promotion then it'd be an embarrasment and awful for the club. We've used the opportunity of playing at a lower level to rebuild the way we do things and the way that we play football and connect with the fans - I think this has been a really positive season.