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My_Wife_Camille
09-03-2015, 12:37 AM
Signed for a team in China. Would love to see him back here at some point, class player.

The_Horde
09-03-2015, 01:06 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

3pm
09-03-2015, 06:55 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

Away you go.

NadeAteMyLunch!
09-03-2015, 07:00 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

Surely not?!

Danderhall Hibs
09-03-2015, 07:03 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

I don't think Craig's far more effective but I do agree that Claris has played a blinder. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and that.

BoomtownHibees
09-03-2015, 07:47 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

Lunatic by name...........

#FromTheCapital
09-03-2015, 07:58 AM
Claros was different class. Stuck out like a sore thumb in that hibs team and I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

marinello59
09-03-2015, 07:59 AM
Claros seems to get better and better with every month that passes since his departure. :greengrin

3pm
09-03-2015, 08:16 AM
Claros seems to get better and better with every month that passes since his departure. :greengrin

He was good for us. That may have been his level but he was decent!

Bishop Hibee
09-03-2015, 08:23 AM
Overrated. McGeoch is a far better player.

CB_NO3
09-03-2015, 08:56 AM
Claros was excellent at breaking up play. Offered very little going forward. At least Robertson and McGeogh have a goal in them.

Thecat23
09-03-2015, 08:59 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

Yeah and Hurtado was far better than Griffths as well.

Possibly the strangest post on here!!

Smartie
09-03-2015, 11:19 AM
Claros is an excellent player.

Remember, the team he was playing in was (Griffiths excepted) totally Tom Kite. His is an unglamorous role - win the ball, keep it simple and give to someone who knows what to do with it. He was superb at that. Claiming that he didn't offer enough going forward is up there with the criticism of 100 goal Riordan for not tracking back.

Lewis Stevenson has rightly been getting plaudits for how well he is doing this season but for me, the main difference with Lewis is that he is playing in a decent team again (the last time he played in a decent team he was man of the match in a cup final). He's doing the same as he has done for years. It would be interesting to see Claros back and playing in a decent team. I think he would be magnificent.

Not that I am in any way unhappy with the options we have for all midfield positions at the moment, I am happy with who we have. But equally I would love to have Claros back.

Nazz
09-03-2015, 11:33 AM
Signed for a team in China. Would love to see him back here at some point, class player.

Not any old Chinese team but my local team in the second tier of the Chinese leagues. Pains me to say that the standard is pretty abysmal.

Billy Whizz
09-03-2015, 11:37 AM
Not any old Chinese team but my local team in the second tier of the Chinese leagues. Pains me to say that the standard is pretty abysmal.

What team has he signed for

Kato
09-03-2015, 11:40 AM
Claros is an excellent player.

Remember, the team he was playing in was (Griffiths excepted) totally Tom Kite. His is an unglamorous role - win the ball, keep it simple and give to someone who knows what to do with it. He was superb at that. Claiming that he didn't offer enough going forward is up there with the criticism of 100 goal Riordan for not tracking back.

Lewis Stevenson has rightly been getting plaudits for how well he is doing this season but for me, the main difference with Lewis is that he is playing in a decent team again (the last time he played in a decent team he was man of the match in a cup final). He's doing the same as he has done for years. It would be interesting to see Claros back and playing in a decent team. I think he would be magnificent.

Not that I am in any way unhappy with the options we have for all midfield positions at the moment, I am happy with who we have. But equally I would love to have Claros back.

Agreed, 100% with this. A great player who would look even better now that we have other midfielders who also look the part.

He also loved Leith, Edinburgh and Hibs as did his family. He'd play out of his skin for us if given the chance again.

neil7908
09-03-2015, 11:50 AM
Overrated. McGeoch is a far better player.

Not sure about that, definitely rate McGeough and hope we keep him but we've only seen him play in the Championship. I'm confident Claros would look even better at this level.

kaimendhibs
09-03-2015, 11:53 AM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here
Right then

1875STEVE
09-03-2015, 12:28 PM
A bit unfair to compare him to McGeouch IMO, completely different type of player, McGeouch is an attacking midfielder, Claros is a holding midfielder.

Claros playing the role Robertson is playing, with Fyvie, McGeouch and Allan in front of him would be some midfield.

Mind you Robertson has been outstanding there this season and wouldn't deserve to be dropped.

My_Wife_Camille
09-03-2015, 12:32 PM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder hereAgreed mate

The_Exile
09-03-2015, 12:46 PM
Sake man, I'm guessing the same folk who have said Claros wasn't all that don't rate Michael Carrick, think Claude Makalele was a luxury and Mascherano couldn't lace Zidane's boots. Talking about Zidane, when Real Madrid sold Claude Makalele he went mental both internally and publicly, and one of his most famous quotes "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you're losing the entire engine?" was made to reflect the strength of feeling amongst the players at his sale.

Players like Claros and the above mentioned (no I'm not comparing Claros to Makalele or Mascherano) players are the first names on the team sheet, full stop. It's a fact, it's not my opinion, it's not someone trying to talk up a certain player, it's just plain facts, deal with it. They never EVER do anything glamourous, they don't beat men, they don't dribble the ball, they don't score, they don't create goals or chances, they don't contribute to attacking phases of play (which is really the only thing most football fans pay any interest to) but apart from the goalie, they are the most important cog in the machine.

Speedy
09-03-2015, 12:48 PM
A bit unfair to compare him to McGeouch IMO, completely different type of player, McGeouch is an attacking midfielder, Claros is a holding midfielder.

Claros playing the role Robertson is playing, with Fyvie, McGeouch and Allan in front of him would be some midfield.

Mind you Robertson has been outstanding there this season and wouldn't deserve to be dropped.

Agree. Claros would be very good in Robertson's role.

The strange thing with our midfield is loads of holding mids then none (then Robertson started to fit in well).

silverhibee
09-03-2015, 01:23 PM
Too many sideways passes for me.

Liam Craig is far more effective and he gets a hard time.

I'll never understand the love in for Claros.

Jorge's played a blinder here

:tee hee:

The_Exile
09-03-2015, 01:38 PM
I feel I've been a victim of a monumental fishing trip, hook line and sinker :greengrin

The_Horde
09-03-2015, 02:22 PM
Fishing trip or not our midfield now would be weakened by Dode.

Nazz
09-03-2015, 02:38 PM
What team has he signed for

Qingdao Jonoon

Mikey09
09-03-2015, 11:35 PM
Was good when he was here.... Wouldn't get in Stubbs strongest midfield though.

Pedantic_Hibee
10-03-2015, 05:52 AM
Jorge Claros was a terrific player for Hibs.

spike220
10-03-2015, 07:54 AM
Not any old Chinese team but my local team in the second tier of the Chinese leagues. Pains me to say that the standard is pretty abysmal.

I didnt think Butcher had coached there yet, but I guess the evidence suggests otherwise.

Danderhall Hibs
10-03-2015, 08:02 AM
Jorge Claros was a terrific player for Hibs.

Eventually he was a very good player for Hibs.

Winston Ingram
10-03-2015, 12:12 PM
Never understood the love for Claros or why he'd been christened with the nickname 'Pitbull'.

He wouldn't get in our team now

Callum_62
10-03-2015, 12:14 PM
Never understood the love for Claros or why he'd been christened with the nickname 'Pitbull'

Pitbull - because he could run and run

Don't understand how anyone couldnt see he was a player

2nd as POTY only behind a sensational Griffiths

Take him every day of the week as our DMC

heretoday
10-03-2015, 12:21 PM
Claros? A reminder of dark days. No thanks.

CapitalGreen
10-03-2015, 01:55 PM
Claros? A reminder of dark days. No thanks.

So you'd also say no thanks to Griffiths.

Nonsense.

cleanyman
10-03-2015, 01:58 PM
Good player in his second season.

Before that was he utterly woeful. To be subbed after 40 minutes in a cup final summed that day up.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-03-2015, 02:44 PM
Some folks critisism of Claros is shocking 😳

Craig_HFC
10-03-2015, 02:46 PM
He was decent enough in a hopeless team (other than Griffiths) but I don't think he'd get into our current midfield.

SteveHFC
10-03-2015, 02:56 PM
Some folks critisism of Claros is shocking 

I know mate

Jones28
10-03-2015, 03:16 PM
Good player but maybe stuck out so much because of the crap around him? Just a thought. Not sure if he'd get I to the current team.

Northernhibee
10-03-2015, 09:30 PM
It'd be frightening how good he'd be in such a well organised team.

monktonharp
10-03-2015, 11:38 PM
Good player in his second season.

Before that was he utterly woeful. To be subbed after 40 minutes in a cup final summed that day up.I liked him, but the cup final? I thought at the time, he was not up for battle and allowed Broonie to bully him from the k.o. of course, we had some poor performances all round in the first half after our real chance in about 8 mins. Griffiths was carrying an injury too ,was he not?

truehibernian
10-03-2015, 11:54 PM
It'd be frightening how good he'd be in such a well organised team.

Not for me......I was never convinced and I'm firmly of the opinion that he was a good player in a terribly assembed side......but even now he would not get near a Stubbs side. He had no pace, he was tidy in the pass, but he was neither creative nor was he influential......I really don't see the love for him as a footballer. We were an incredibly uncreative, industrial side.......hence he looked decent.

He couldn't tackle a fish supper from the Gorgie Fry..........so the term Pitbull was for me tongue in cheek.......the boy waltzed out of tackles more times than the judges fae Strictly......but for me that wasn't his game and he signed on this misnomer......he was simply a very tidy footballer who offered little at the business end of the game. Hence we were bottom 6 when he was here - had he been any better, he'd have not been bottom 6 - twice !

Sir David Gray
11-03-2015, 12:03 AM
I liked him, but the cup final? I thought at the time, he was not up for battle and allowed Broonie to bully him from the k.o. of course, we had some poor performances all round in the first half after our real chance in about 8 mins. Griffiths was carrying an injury too ,was he not?

It was the other cup final, the year before, when he got subbed before half time.

It's understandable if you don't remember much from that day.

HoboHarry
11-03-2015, 02:09 AM
Not for me......I was never convinced and I'm firmly of the opinion that he was a good player in a terribly assembed side......but even now he would not get near a Stubbs side. He had no pace, he was tidy in the pass, but he was neither creative nor was he influential......I really don't see the love for him as a footballer. We were an incredibly uncreative, industrial side.......hence he looked decent.

He couldn't tackle a fish supper from the Gorgie Fry..........so the term Pitbull was for me tongue in cheek.......the boy waltzed out of tackles more times than the judges fae Strictly......but for me that wasn't his game and he signed on this misnomer......he was simply a very tidy footballer who offered little at the business end of the game. Hence we were bottom 6 when he was here - had he been any better, he'd have not been bottom 6 - twice !

Yet he played in a World Cup and was recently seen, by me, playing for sporting kc who se just off the back of being mls champions.

easty
11-03-2015, 07:32 AM
Claros was a class act and would have fit in perfectly in Stubbs team.

KWJ
11-03-2015, 07:57 AM
Claros was a class act and would have fit in perfectly in Stubbs team.

At the cost of Robertson seems a bit harsh though.

Thecat23
11-03-2015, 08:52 AM
Not for me......I was never convinced and I'm firmly of the opinion that he was a good player in a terribly assembed side......but even now he would not get near a Stubbs side. He had no pace, he was tidy in the pass, but he was neither creative nor was he influential......I really don't see the love for him as a footballer. We were an incredibly uncreative, industrial side.......hence he looked decent.

He couldn't tackle a fish supper from the Gorgie Fry..........so the term Pitbull was for me tongue in cheek.......the boy waltzed out of tackles more times than the judges fae Strictly......but for me that wasn't his game and he signed on this misnomer......he was simply a very tidy footballer who offered little at the business end of the game. Hence we were bottom 6 when he was here - had he been any better, he'd have not been bottom 6 - twice !

The second season not much got past him in midfield as he went through everyone and usually won the ball. He broke up play and his range of passing was unreal that season!

The guy would get in Stubbs team for me as I think he's better than Robbo. Not saying Robbo is bad as I really rate him. Just rate Claros more. For someone who rates Handling so high and thinks Claros is poor confused me 😉

easty
11-03-2015, 09:15 AM
At the cost of Robertson seems a bit harsh though.

I'd not deny Robertsons a good player, but Claros would be better. It's not about being harsh, regardless of how well we are playing I wouldn't be unhappy if we brought in someone better, in any position.

DTS
11-03-2015, 09:27 AM
Claros was a quality player for us and would be our best defensive midfielder just now, that being said he wouldn't get in the team. This is due to the fact we don't have a specific holder yes Robertson starts the game there but all four players in midfield interchange and get forward which is evident with Robertson being the top goal scorer in midfield which is what he offers that Claros didn't he just sits in front of the defence

The_Exile
11-03-2015, 09:55 AM
Sincere apologies for the lengthy post but trying to get everything in that I wanted to say was difficult! But I was a massive admirer of the wee guy so couldn't let this go unchecked :greengrin

Claros isn't capable of doing anything spectacular, nor should he be (although he's scored a few raspers in his time), he had a specific job to do, he's at a very high level in the way he operates that "job". He's the type of player you build the entire spine of your team around if you're playing a certain way (possession football with defence designed to spoil the counter attack of the opposition, counter attack is probably the most prevalent change we've witnessed in the tactical side of the game in recent memory, for example, the Madrid teams won the lot last year, what tactics do they use? Correct! Possession football with counter attack!).

The vast majority of people want to see players move forward and attack, the thing with Claros is his job is not to even entertain that notion, his job is to break the play up when the forward players lose possession of the ball and there's a counter attack brewing. Now, most top half premiership teams play a form of counter attack, therefore you would think they would love a player like Claros in their team eh? Wrong! What your top dozen or so teams in the Premiership want from their holding midfielder is an ability to go box to box and to ideally sit and dictate the play from deep. I don't think Jorge was ever capable of carving a defence open or splitting the opposition full backs from the centre backs and create space with his passing ability. (good examples are Michael Carrick, Steven Gerrard, Yaya Toure, Mikel, Sami Khedira, all natural holding midfielders with the ability to launch attacks and get on the end of a move whilst also breaking up play and spoiling the counter from oppositions. I'm not comparing Claros to any of these guys, merely using them in context of the point!)

Claros is, in my opinion, at the top level of breaking a counter attack up and closing the passing lanes for the opposition (short of creation and scoring of goals, the ability to close a passing lane is the most desirable thing a manager could want), you would notice this if you watched only him for a good half hour, the consistency in his play and positioning was absolutely incredible, for the level he was playing at, and lets be honest here, SPL fitba is light years behind your Serie A's and La Liga's, which is where I'm assuming most of the "well why isn't he playing at a higher level" brigade are thinking he should be playing if he's that good. He's not THAT good an all rounder to be considered a starter for the likes of these teams, but that doesn't take anything away of how incredibly talented a specialist this guy is. If you don't see the sheer quality of what he brings to a strong midfield unit then you have to start making more of an effort to watch specifics of the game, that's not a dig at anyone by the way, it will genuinely enhance your enjoyment of watching a game of football. Granted, this can only be done live whilst at the game as a lot of this stuff is off the ball, hence, off camera, but it's certainly worth looking out for, it's very impressive and satisfying to watch.

There was a game that springs to mind (I forget who against), where the team were finally on the same page as Jorge, he was closing the lanes down, the full backs were pressing the wingers. The crowd were delighted and cheered every time the full backs and wide mids were pressing the ball as the opposition had to go backwards, they were getting nowhere near our goal line, but the cheers should have been for Claros, he was dictating the entire defensive unit, he did this for the whole game, he would close the passing lane down for the player in possession, and was basically ordering the full backs and wide mids to press the ball, he was the general in the middle dictating the game, it was utter genius! Now, we just need to sign a player worth watching now :greengrin

I posted the above a little under a year ago and stand by every word. It sounds incredibly patronising but I genuinely don't think a lot of fans realised his worth. Whether or not he was in a rubbish team is a complete irrelevance, if you'd put Messi in that team it wouldn't have made him a bad player, just like Claros wasn't an over-rated player within that Hibs team.

CapitalGreen
11-03-2015, 10:38 AM
Claros was a quality player for us and would be our best defensive midfielder just now, that being said he wouldn't get in the team. This is due to the fact we don't have a specific holder yes Robertson starts the game there but all four players in midfield interchange and get forward which is evident with Robertson being the top goal scorer in midfield which is what he offers that Claros didn't he just sits in front of the defence

Does Claros always "just sit in front of the defence" or was he was he doing what the manager asked of him at the time. I can't remember Robertson getting forward/scoring at all in Fenlon's midfield either.

heretoday
11-03-2015, 12:56 PM
So you'd also say no thanks to Griffiths.

Nonsense.

Hmmm I'd have to think about that. Griffiths was outstanding. Claros wasn't.

Spike Mandela
11-03-2015, 01:31 PM
Hmmm I'd have to think about that. Griffiths was outstanding. Claros wasn't.

I would move heaven and earth to have Griffiths in our current team.

Claros I would be happy enough to have in our current squad but not that fussed one way or the other.

That kind of sums it up for me.

JimBHibees
11-03-2015, 02:06 PM
Claros was a quality player for us and would be our best defensive midfielder just now, that being said he wouldn't get in the team. This is due to the fact we don't have a specific holder yes Robertson starts the game there but all four players in midfield interchange and get forward which is evident with Robertson being the top goal scorer in midfield which is what he offers that Claros didn't he just sits in front of the defence

Dont agree I think the midfielders we have now are better in Allan, Fyfie, McGeough and Robertson

JimBHibees
11-03-2015, 02:08 PM
I liked him, but the cup final? I thought at the time, he was not up for battle and allowed Broonie to bully him from the k.o. of course, we had some poor performances all round in the first half after our real chance in about 8 mins. Griffiths was carrying an injury too ,was he not?

Agree with that though the idea of playing Thomson left of a midfield of 4 when he should have been playing a a central role in a 5 so he could compete with Brown was very poor IMO. We played 442 in both final when we should have been more compact and flooded the midfield especially v Celtc.

ballengeich
11-03-2015, 02:54 PM
The problem for Claros was that none of the scouts or managers of any of the hundreds of European teams that can pay more than Hibs rated him, so he had to go back to Honduras. He's just been emptied by his NASL team after less than a year so they presumably haven't recognised his worth either.

A sad story of a genius recognised only by a few visionaries at ER.

Brooster
11-03-2015, 03:33 PM
Quite possibly the slowest footballer I have ever seen.

Onion
11-03-2015, 03:33 PM
Never understood the love for Claros or why he'd been christened with the nickname 'Pitbull'.

He wouldn't get in our team now

:top marks a bang average player who looked ok in a really poor Hibs side.

Smartie
11-03-2015, 03:43 PM
I have to say I'm amazed at how many people it seems didn't rate Claros.

Sure, he made a slow start but certainly in his second season he was a very decent player for us (a season that for several spells we actually weren't that bad either).

I liked him. Ok, he might not break into any of the "best ever" lists but he was nowhere near as bad as some we've had.

Also I agree with the older, long post above in that he was effectively a "specialist" player. He was very good at what he did whilst I accept that there were things that he did not do so well.

And for the comparisons with Robertson where we are criticising Claros' relative ability to get forward - this season there is a far greater expectation for us, whilst we are in the First Division to "get at" teams and attack them for 90 minutes, especially at home. Therefore a more defensive-minded player like Claros would be less useful. But (hopefully) from next season we will be in the premier league again and needing to go to places like Parkhead, Tannadice and Pittodrie and pick up points. There were times last season when you could drive a bus through our central midfield of Robertson and Craig - this simply didn't happen when Claros was in there. We will, in future, need more defensive midfielders at times. Claros has proven to be very effective at that role here in Scotland, if not at a much higher level.

Opinions eh?

Paloschi
11-03-2015, 03:48 PM
Claros was one of the best midfielders of the last decade at Hibs IMO.

I feel we could benefit from his positional abilities and his ability to keep the ball and retain possession. Robertson has proved capable and been our most consistent midfielder IMO but I'd be delighted to have Jorge in the squad!

3pm
11-03-2015, 03:52 PM
Quite possibly the slowest footballer I have ever seen.

Nae use being quick if yer ***** though.

HibbyAndy
11-03-2015, 03:55 PM
I like Jorge, Really good player us.

Heedersnvolleys
11-03-2015, 03:59 PM
Would Claros have fitted into our current style?
Would he have scored the goals Robertson has scored this season?
Answer to both would be no for me so I am more than happy with what we have!

Come the play off's however and we are winning 2-0 on aggregate against St Mirren with 20 mins to go I would love Claros to come on to shore things up and close out the game :greengrin

Alfred E Newman
11-03-2015, 05:33 PM
My lasting memory of Claros will be his abysmal performance in the Cup Final embarrassment.

Danderhall Hibs
11-03-2015, 05:37 PM
The problem for Claros was that none of the scouts or managers of any of the hundreds of European teams that can pay more than Hibs rated him, so he had to go back to Honduras. He's just been emptied by his NASL team after less than a year so they presumably haven't recognised his worth either.

A sad story of a genius recognised only by a few visionaries at ER.

:tee hee:

leggeto
11-03-2015, 05:50 PM
Didn't rate him,too many backward and sideways passes, when he tried to pass forward it rarely came off,saying that he always looked for the ball and always got involved.
Maybe under a different manager we'd have seen a different player

DTS
11-03-2015, 06:13 PM
Does Claros always "just sit in front of the defence" or was he was he doing what the manager asked of him at the time. I can't remember Robertson getting forward/scoring at all in Fenlon's midfield either.
Well we can only judge on the player that we have seen, but what we know is that Robertson was capable of going forward and scoring as he did that at United and is doing so now

Northernhibee
11-03-2015, 07:49 PM
My lasting memory of Claros will be his abysmal performance in the Cup Final embarrassment.

My lasting memory will be how much he grew to love the club and gave absolutely everything in that following season, playing really tidy football and getting himself about the pitch.

allezsauzee
12-03-2015, 08:51 PM
Quite possibly the slowest footballer I have ever seen.
You must have been lucky enough never to have seen Joe Keenan play for Hibs

Smartie
12-03-2015, 09:05 PM
Joe McLaughlin was like Joe Keenan on a spacehopper.

The_Horde
12-03-2015, 10:52 PM
Joe McLaughlin was like Joe Keenan on a spacehopper.

James Collins was like Hurtado with a time machine.

.Sean.
12-03-2015, 11:12 PM
The problem for Claros was that none of the scouts or managers of any of the hundreds of European teams that can pay more than Hibs rated him, so he had to go back to Honduras. He's just been emptied by his NASL team after less than a year so they presumably haven't recognised his worth either.

A sad story of a genius recognised only by a few visionaries at ER.


James Collins was like Hurtado with a time machine.
:faf::faf:

MWHIBBIES
13-03-2015, 12:34 AM
Quite possibly the slowest footballer I have ever seen.Andrea Pirlo is slower and unquestionably one of the best and most unique midfield players of all time. Needing pace to be a good player is a myth, you need a brain and 2 good feet, Claros had that.

macd123
13-03-2015, 03:18 AM
Andrea Pirlo is slower and unquestionably one of the best and most unique midfield players of all time. Needing pace to be a good player is a myth, you need a brain and 2 good feet, Claros had that.

We all know running around quickly putting in crunching tackles is far more important than skill.

easty
13-03-2015, 07:35 AM
We all know running around quickly putting in crunching tackles is far more important than skill.

If that's what Claros was doing in his time here, then who was I watching? Must have been someone else.

blackpoolhibs
13-03-2015, 08:11 AM
I thought Claros was one of the best defensive midfielders we have had at the club in a long time, yes he started off slowly but by the time he left he was putting in some terrific performances in my opinion.

His problem was he had a whole lot of dross beside him, i think he'd enhance this team.